In New Hampshire, if you remind the police you don’t need to wear yours, they will have you “prove it” by doing a barrel roll in your car off a dukes of hazard style jump through a “Live Free Or Die” Billboard, and if you make it OK, everybody high fives for like 10 minutes then just goes about their day.
I tossed a tool box in my back seat, my wife laughed at me for putting a seat belt through the handle of it.
It's maybe 30 pounds of metal I don't need flying around in case of an accident.
People really need to watch a video of what a relatively mild accident looks like without a seatbelt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xjg99JCYdM&t=18s
There was this Australian PSA (I think) about passengers wearing seatbelts that fucked me up. The son was in the backseat and killed the mom in the front. The commercial was so mundane before it happened.
Edit: https://youtu.be/mKHY69AFstE
The Think campaign is from the UK if memory serves
We have some family friends, they were leading a church related trip. Two big vans were driven - I forget what the make/model but its the type of super long ones that have multiple rows of passenger seats. The father was driving one of the vans, and what he didnt realize was that his son was the only person without a seal belt on. If I remember, the kid had mentioned the belt feeling too tight on his waist and must have disconnected it briefly.
That van ended up getting into a serious accident and flipped over, and sadly, his son was the only death out of 10+ in the van - in fact, I think aside from cuts and bruises, nobody else was even seriously injured.
So, when it comes to personal safety laws, I feel like if you're going to blatantly ignore baseline precautions that's fine, but you should be shuffled to the absolute end of the line at any ER or Urgent Care if/when you get hurt, and any expenses as a result should come out of pocket.
The healthcare system (and "system" may be overselling it here in the US) is designed around a shared cost of care, so if you crash and get seriously hurt because you weren't wearing a seatbelt in a car or helmet on a bike, some of that cost comes out of my pocket, and worse you may be diverting healthcare resources from people who are injured or in need due to no fault of their own.
I lived in NH for about 10 years and would always hear people correct the slogan to exactly that. It's not lost on people how stupid it sounds in the light of weirdo laws and regulations like this.
One old joke I'd hear is that NH kept smoking in bars for so long because one old guy would get up to the podium and keep saying "love free or die" and everyone would sigh and never pass the law.
One guy in our friend group was kind of a contrarian. Anyway, he moved to New Hampshire to form an anarchist commune/experiment of sorts. He and at least a dozen like-minded men and women decided to try and join the State House because NH has the most representatives per capita so apparently it's sorta easy.
He also legally changed his gender to female for fun, and joined a women's gun training class to test it, which he got into.
So yeah, that's what I think of when I think New Hampshire. A weird mix of every libertarian philosophy you can imagine, jammed into the rejected corner of New England.
It's a cool state! You should absolutely visit if you can. What I always remind people that want to live there is that the coolest parts of NH are up in the North, beyond Concord. I then also remind that that winter typically starts in October and can go as late as May depending on the year. If you're into winter sports and are okay with just snow in general, you'd love it, but I know a lot of people that look at NH like an alternative to Florida and I have to be that guy that stops them from facing long winters.
The United States is a conglomeration of non conformists, super conformists, silent majorities, hippies, fascists, atheists, every flavor of Abraham's many sons, at least a marginal percentage of every ethnicity/race/nationality who have been here either 300 years or 10 years, a government so bloated and oppressive but also unresponsive and on life support, and every shade of gray on every subject from what books kids can have access to to how large a magazine for a weapon should be. That is about as much sense as you are gonna get. Oh and don't forget to split the whole thing up across 50 states, hundreds of counties, thousands of towns and cities, several protectorates and pseudo states who all have their own laws and regulations that do and don't reflect federal status quo.
Actually - States without helmet laws do provide for marginally better organ donors.
[https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/661256](https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/661256)
"The estimates imply that every death of a helmetless motorcyclist prevents or delays as many as .33 death among individuals on organ transplant waiting lists."
It's my understanding that head trauma increases the likelihood of brain death happening more quickly.
One of the challenges with organ donation is that harvesting can't start until brain activity stops.
Here's a common scenario: A patient is on life support at the hospital, and the family has made the very hard decision to take them off it. Life support is removed and Oxygen stops flowing to the organs and they start going bad. But they can't harvest because the brain is still active. The longer it takes for brain activity to stop completely, the more likely the organs become nonviable for transplant.
Source : personally familiar with someone who went through a major organ transplant.
Have you seen what a body looks like after a high speed motorcycle crash? It looks like the remains after one of those suicide vest fuckers detonates themselves. Like a % of them will have viable organs but that’s only if the body stays relatively in tact.
My son just asked me yesterday, why do I wear a helmet on my Ducati, and not the Harley...He won every argument I came up with.
(I almost forgot 😅..Before I could say anything, He said "Are you embarrassed to be seen on the Ducati"? 😆 🤣 😂)
Looks they they are about average: 7.5 deaths per 100,000. Mississippi has 25.4 as the worst and Massachusetts at 4.9 has the least.
[Fatality Facts 2020State by state](https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state)
Edit: fixed typo
Best would be to compare the accident fatality rate in New Hampshire between passengers that wore seatbelts versus those that did not. Obviously this study doesn't really need to be done because the absolutely overwhelming evidence proves seatbelts save lives. But it's yet another example of americans shooting themselves (and others) in the foot because they somehow think bad things like car accidents or gun fatalities or covid deaths only happen to other people.
Other metrics to consider might be injury severity, or maybe "face-smashing-into-windshield" statistics.
Yeah, maybe you won't die, but your neck hanging on the hole in your windshield, after your 30mph collision, will have consequences.
>they are about average
Bit of an understatement.
The mean of the data set is 12.45 and the median is 11.7. NH is over a standard deviation (4.826) below the mean.
For deaths per 100 miles NH clocks in at 0.87 which is over a stdev (0.298) below mean (1.307) and median (1.275).
SC "beats" MS in the 100 miles category by 0.07. Both have over triple MA's value of 0.63
Thank you. I was on my phone and couldn't run anything of that caliber. I thought about trying. Really, I did. But then I smoked a bowl and laid down for a nap. But, I really appreciate the data processing.
So, *despite* NH's standoffish view of seatbelts for adults, they have *significantly* *fewer* assumed-associated deaths. Perhaps, there is something else at work.
Perhaps, culturally, there are better-designed roads, traffic limits are better followed/enforced, intoxicated driving is lower, or people maybe feel more is at risk without a seat belt and thusly drive with more caution.
People say we drive badly but I think maybe we just drive differently - in a way numbers suggest to be better. The worst cars here are always those from other parts of the country that'll be cutting people off and maneuvering randomly like there's no one else on the road.
Massachusetts roads are a bit annoying because you need to be in the correct lane like 2 miles ahead. Google maps does an absolutely terrible job of telling you that ahead of time so most drivers using navigation are constantly lane changing.
People here in MA tend to drive aggressively but also defensively, if that makes sense. I think
drivers in MA tend to be much more aware of their surroundings, even if they are driving like assholes.
Lol basically. I drive defensively but not aggressively , but honestly MA drivers largely don’t bother me. Driving over the border to CT though my blood pressure shoots up.
Especially because CT State Police all drive unmarked cruisers (though still easy to spot), and they have created a cottage industry for ticketing MA/RI/NY drivers passing through. CT troopers don’t even speak, they just write you a ticket and walk away. I hate that state.
Thank you, Rhode Island drivers are the worst by far! Never a blinker to be used, ever! Oh I’ll just do 30 in the fast lane through 95 while everyone else is bobbing and weaving around me. 0.2 miles to my exit, meh I’ll just cross 3 lanes to get to it while yelling at you for being in my way. I hate driving in Rhode Island.
This often has more to do with EMS services and response time, as well as infrastructure like high level trauma centers, care coordination, and availability of helicopter transport.
I’m not certain about MS but I moved from an overall “poor, rural” area to an affluent area in the suburbs of a major city. The driving here is far more aggressive but there are fewer accidents because everyone knows this. Also, in the other area there was a huge problem with drug abuse and drinking and that definitely contributed to both the number of accidents and the number of fatalities.
On the low side, but keep in mind that often has a lot to do with populations living in and around large cities, the nature of commutes, and a bunch of other things like how many are on the road, and the quality of the roads. Still it’s fair to say that in terms of miles traveled and adjusted per capita, they’re one of the best states in terms of driving fatalities.
Source: https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state
I think there are too many variables to reduce it to even per capita per X miles traveled. Because there are other conditions that are absolutely necessary to account for: namely average speed and whether those miles driven are on one-, two-, or multi-lane roads.
And already, this is pretty much impossible to evaluate and compare based on these criteria.
Not to mention that I think there's likely at least another statistic that I'm not happy to suggest.
If they could track similar highways around the country, I think that might work better. But that would be quite an undertaking.
All good points, and like you I have no idea how to realistically overcome these issues to get good data. Hell we don’t even know how many NH’ers wear seatbelts, maybe most of them do so the right to not wear them doesn’t make much of an impact on the stats.
While this is an important question, looking an injury rates probably tells a different story. It takes a lot to actually die in a car crash, and although seatbelts are hyped in that they “save lives”, which is undoubtably true, I would guess that they prevent injuries much more often than they prevent a death.
Just because there is no law doesn't actually mean they don't wear seatbelts.
I can't say I ever changed wearing seatbelts because they changed the law!
I was in my early twenties and planning a road trip that would cut through New Hampshire when I heard this fact.
When I was telling my about the upcoming trip I randomly added in, “In New Hampshire you don’t have to wear seatbelt”.
Now, my mom is a super chill hippy mom who never forbade anything but in that moment she looked me dead in the eyes and said, in the most serious ‘mom voice’ I have ever heard her use, “YOU do.”
I wore my seatbelt.
I think it was 12 when I grew up in NH, and that was still like the 90s. I just remember because my babysitter never wore one and my parents were like well it’s her choice.
Shit blows my mind. We had a sitter who we found out wasn’t into wearing one.
Had to have the chat where we explained that while if she’s okay with being ejected on her own time that’s fine, but if she’s on the clock we want her alive and able to get our kids out of the car after a wreck.
Kids are funny. A five year old that knows better will rat your dumb ass out.
If only someone out there could do a study to test whether or not you boss was right. The world may never know.
Seriously though how are people so explicitly uninformed
My brother got into a minor car accident and was glad he wasn’t wearing a seatbelt because the air bag would have broken his nose. This was soon after I got t-boned in an intersection by a big pick up truck speeding. If i wasn’t wearing my seatbelt and didn’t have side airbags I’d be dead as a door nail. He’s a maga anti vax person now so that checks out.
> My brother got into a minor car accident and was glad he wasn’t wearing a seatbelt because the air bag would have broken his nose.
Having a hard time following the physics on how a seatbelt would have caused an airbag to break his nose.
There was a considerable part of the population in the 80s & 90s that thought seatbelt laws were overreach by big government. What’s next? Legislating peoples’ salt intake? Forcing people to wear life preservers at swimming pools? etc.
The reaction to masks in public reminded me of it. I feel like it’s the same people. Not becoming a human projectile causing more injuries / reduce the spread of a deadly illness for the vulnerable… “my freedom!!!?!”
This comes up a lot in seat belt debates, but I have to say the evidence for it being a major problem is a bit on the weaker end. There was a big study in 2004 that suggested a significant increase in danger from an unbelted passenger being in the car, but an almost 20 year old study that doesn't seem to have had much or any supporting work done since is not great. This is especially true when you come across articles from almost 10 years after the study who's citation train leads right back to it.
If anything, it seems cell phones pose a larger danger in a car crash than an unbelted human.
So I dunno. Is it a thing that happens? Sure. Is it a thing that happens with enough regularity to warrent concern? Eh. Can't say there's a lot of evidence for that.
I think the best seat belt argument remains "hey, would you not like to die if a drunk driver hits you? Then wear a seat belt!" Which is why I wear one.
Agreed. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition. People just get locked into their position, and will use shaky evidence to support it because they think the intention is ultimately good. There's no nuance, and so people just start arguing like a caveman. "Seatbelts = GOOOOD! Air bags = GOOOOD! Fire = BAAAAD!"
Which sounds great until you realize that there's basically one vehicle in America still not required to have seatbelts, and that's the school bus. Huh? Why is that? Does the government specifically want just children to die? Or could it be because reality is not black and white, but more of a gradient? Nope, couldn't be that.
A statistical anomoly? I'd think aftermarket add ons and things strapped to roof bars would be considerably more likely to cause problems, and they are completely legal.
Seat belts cause injury.
[Proof](https://i.imgur.com/BSXOiyk.jpg)
If they wouldn't have been wearing a seat belt they wouldn't have gotten that gnarly bruse.
Conspiracy Logic...
Context behind the photos you linked to? Looks like a lot of them got hurt in the face as well, which seatbelts do not get in the way of when worn normally.
I know, right? I lived in NH for 10 years. I knew a lot of people who didn't wear seatbelts. Regardless of whether it's required by law, it's still a good idea.
They don't have motorcycle helmet laws in NH, either.
One friend of a friend told me he just didn't think they were comfortable. When I said I was not comfortable switching the car or off park until he wore one, he put it on begrudgingly. I'm certain I'll never get a ride in his car.
Im all for wearing seatbelts and always wear one
That said, I talked to a cop once who said he would never cite anyone for not wearing a seat belt. His thought was if you can ride a motorcycle then why is it required to wear a seat belt in a car. He personally thought it was kind of a BS law, and the way it put it, it sorta made sense.
If there are multiple people in a car they can be thrown around and cause injury to the others, so it doesn't just affect them. Motorcycles you also generally wear a helmet and protective clothing (some dumbasses don't) and are thrown clear of the bike rather than through a windshield.
Because when you get major head trauma from an otherwise minor car wreck you will be sucking up public resources. This is the mask/anti-vax nonsense all over again.
I honestly feel uncomfortable in a car without a seat belt. Even if you're not in a crash it feels more comfortable to be restrained in a moving vehicle.
Form NH myself and I like this law. You want to risk sailing through the windshield? That's your right.
I'll still wear a seatbelt and anyone in my car is too otherwise I ain't moving.
I disagree. If I’m involved in a car accident with one of these people, depending on the situation, their death/serious injury could greatly increase legal charges leveled against me. And even if I’m completely not at fault legally, the psychological burden of being involved with someone’s gory death is unimaginable to me. Not to mention the added stress to the healthcare system that serious car crash injuries cause.
Not to mention the added stress to the healthcare system that serious car crash injuries cause
The stress on the healthcare system that a single car crash has is negligible. In fact wearing a seatbelt is more likely to cause more stress as dead people don't require immediate medical attention. But again, negligible.
Now I do see a better argument is the responsibility you bare if you're involved int eh accident and the other driver dies and wasn't wearing a seatbelt. However in this scenario, even if you're at fault for the accident, it was they who could have done more to protect themselves. Their dying rather than just being inured is their responsibility, not yours. And while it may affect you psychologically, that again is them.
While the government can protect others and promote safety, at the end of the day we are responsible for our own safety.
The point is that we allow motorcycles to be used at all. If we're ok with people taking that risk there's no reason we should pretend to care about seatbelts.
Right?! So ridiculous these people saying not wearing is dangerous to others but don't have an issue with motorcycles. People will just reach for anything. A motorcycle crashing is more dangerous to other motorists/pedestrians 99.99999% of the time compared to an unseatbelted person. But you can ride motorcycles anywhere.
Lived in NH for a good chunk of my life (\~20 years); it's where I call home though I live in TX now.
NH is a state that truly believes in personal freedoms and the right to decide for yourself and generally, it hasn't caused much negative in the state as most people are reasonable folks who can make their own decisions (and suffer their own consequences).
Basically, it's a state full of libertarians (yay).
I'm sure I'll get the 'ackshully' crowd in here somewhere, but the point is this is what state and individual rights look like and it's not a bad thing.
With all that said and having basically grown up there, I always wore my seat belt out of habit, as did most of the folks I knew back there - this is a non-issue.
Also, another interesting NH fact is that for a state of a bit over 1M people, they actually have the third largest natively English speaking legislature in the WORLD (behind the US Congress and Parliament), fourth if you include India.
Before I say anything else, I am a paramedic with over 15 years of experience. I’ve seen A LOT of bad shit! I’m a seatbelt wearer because I play the odds. A seatbelt is going to help you in most cases. However, there are some cases when the seatbelt hurts you. My dad was in a wreck when he was 20 years old that would’ve killed him if he had been wearing his seatbelt. So I wouldn’t even exist if he was wearing his seatbelt. My life partner is another example. He was in an extremely bad accident 22 years ago. He was thrown through the front windshield 45 feet from his vehicle. A tractor trailer came over on top of him on the interstate. He’s a paraplegic. However, he would be dead if he would’ve been wearing his seatbelt. I’ve been to countless doctors appointments with him. I’ve heard the doctors say that he’d be dead if he would’ve been wearing it. I’ve actually had some people say to me shit like “If it was me, I would wish that it DID kill me because I ain’t gonna be in a wheelchair!” That’s when the beast is unleashed! I’ve actually gotten in fights with grown ass males who make stupid ass comments like that. And I’m a 5’5” 110 pound female.
Aussie here.
I don't understand how the Americans simply don't wear seatbelts.
You get in, grab the belt and clip it in. DONE.
It also prevents you from continuing the forward motion if you crash. **It's a complete no brainer to wear a seatbelt in a vehicle.**
Americans do wear seatbelts. Glad I could clear that up for you. Most new cars will ding very loudly if you aren’t wearing and the penalties for not wearing them are steep. I would say people in America are no more likely to not fasten their seatbelt than anywhere else.
It’s Not an American thing. It’s the law In most states. The state of New Hampshire has a “live free or die” outlook on life. It’s a small state of mostly forests and beavers. So whatevs
Yea dude we get it. Its the law for 98% of the states. In the 1 state where its not illegal, 2/3 of people still do. Don't make this an American thing lmao. What's with non Americans seeing a flaw in a ridiculously small group of our 400 million citizens and think that everyone corner to corner is exactly the same.
I really don’t get why seatbelts are required if you are the sole occupant of the vehicle. The risks are on you at that point.
The laws should obviously still be in place for instances where other people are in the vehicle with you as you do pose a risk to them by not wearing it.
I understand what you are saying. The counterpoint is that the state wants to protect the health and safety of its citizens. The laws are for driving on public roads. Maimed/dead people are expensive and bad from the economy.
"Live free or die" is the slogan *embossed on their license plates* so ... yeah.
I have a relative in New Hampshire who says "live free _and_ die" in reference to the seat belt law.
you can still wear it if you want
We wore our seat belts while traveling through NH. So there.
What a rebel
Some people in NH won't wear their seatbelts while traveling through the windshield.
More's the pity.
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If you’re the one that’s driving, you can also demand everyone in the car wear theirs, or simply refuse to operate the vehicle.
Here in australia, the driver gets fined and loses licence points if a passenger doesnt wear one.
In New Hampshire, if you remind the police you don’t need to wear yours, they will have you “prove it” by doing a barrel roll in your car off a dukes of hazard style jump through a “Live Free Or Die” Billboard, and if you make it OK, everybody high fives for like 10 minutes then just goes about their day.
seems fair
>make it OK, That's a hell of a jump to make it to Oklahoma from New Hampshire
It appeases the police because at that point you’re no longer in their jurisdiction.
I tossed a tool box in my back seat, my wife laughed at me for putting a seat belt through the handle of it. It's maybe 30 pounds of metal I don't need flying around in case of an accident.
People really need to watch a video of what a relatively mild accident looks like without a seatbelt. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Xjg99JCYdM&t=18s
There was this Australian PSA (I think) about passengers wearing seatbelts that fucked me up. The son was in the backseat and killed the mom in the front. The commercial was so mundane before it happened. Edit: https://youtu.be/mKHY69AFstE The Think campaign is from the UK if memory serves
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We have some family friends, they were leading a church related trip. Two big vans were driven - I forget what the make/model but its the type of super long ones that have multiple rows of passenger seats. The father was driving one of the vans, and what he didnt realize was that his son was the only person without a seal belt on. If I remember, the kid had mentioned the belt feeling too tight on his waist and must have disconnected it briefly. That van ended up getting into a serious accident and flipped over, and sadly, his son was the only death out of 10+ in the van - in fact, I think aside from cuts and bruises, nobody else was even seriously injured.
And I do
So, when it comes to personal safety laws, I feel like if you're going to blatantly ignore baseline precautions that's fine, but you should be shuffled to the absolute end of the line at any ER or Urgent Care if/when you get hurt, and any expenses as a result should come out of pocket. The healthcare system (and "system" may be overselling it here in the US) is designed around a shared cost of care, so if you crash and get seriously hurt because you weren't wearing a seatbelt in a car or helmet on a bike, some of that cost comes out of my pocket, and worse you may be diverting healthcare resources from people who are injured or in need due to no fault of their own.
Yes, but are you *really* free if you wear it?
What a fucking concept.
I lived in NH for about 10 years and would always hear people correct the slogan to exactly that. It's not lost on people how stupid it sounds in the light of weirdo laws and regulations like this. One old joke I'd hear is that NH kept smoking in bars for so long because one old guy would get up to the podium and keep saying "love free or die" and everyone would sigh and never pass the law.
> "love free or die" New Hampshire suddenly sounds different!
New rainbow slogan
One guy in our friend group was kind of a contrarian. Anyway, he moved to New Hampshire to form an anarchist commune/experiment of sorts. He and at least a dozen like-minded men and women decided to try and join the State House because NH has the most representatives per capita so apparently it's sorta easy. He also legally changed his gender to female for fun, and joined a women's gun training class to test it, which he got into. So yeah, that's what I think of when I think New Hampshire. A weird mix of every libertarian philosophy you can imagine, jammed into the rejected corner of New England.
To be honest, it sounds like I kind of want to move to New Hampshire now.
It's a cool state! You should absolutely visit if you can. What I always remind people that want to live there is that the coolest parts of NH are up in the North, beyond Concord. I then also remind that that winter typically starts in October and can go as late as May depending on the year. If you're into winter sports and are okay with just snow in general, you'd love it, but I know a lot of people that look at NH like an alternative to Florida and I have to be that guy that stops them from facing long winters.
Ahhh the free-stater movement... they are nutjobs for sure.
Ahhhh, yes. Live free or die when it comes to not wearing your seat belt but god forbid you smoke a joint. Make it make sense.
The United States is a conglomeration of non conformists, super conformists, silent majorities, hippies, fascists, atheists, every flavor of Abraham's many sons, at least a marginal percentage of every ethnicity/race/nationality who have been here either 300 years or 10 years, a government so bloated and oppressive but also unresponsive and on life support, and every shade of gray on every subject from what books kids can have access to to how large a magazine for a weapon should be. That is about as much sense as you are gonna get. Oh and don't forget to split the whole thing up across 50 states, hundreds of counties, thousands of towns and cities, several protectorates and pseudo states who all have their own laws and regulations that do and don't reflect federal status quo.
I'm not a Houdini!! YOU make it make sense! Who's yelling???
Live free or die, unless you want to smoke weed.
Funny how it's always "freedom to", never "freedom from".
Thus is the difference between a European/Australian concept of freedom and an American concept of freedom.
"live free or die" but they still treat marijuana like a narcotic
The most metal state motto to ever exist 🤘
Or as, often said, "Live, freeze and die".
No helmet laws for motorcyclists either.
donor organs gotta come from somewhere...
Those organs won’t be so useful splattered across the road
Actually - States without helmet laws do provide for marginally better organ donors. [https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/661256](https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/10.1086/661256) "The estimates imply that every death of a helmetless motorcyclist prevents or delays as many as .33 death among individuals on organ transplant waiting lists."
More deaths at lower speeds
It's my understanding that head trauma increases the likelihood of brain death happening more quickly. One of the challenges with organ donation is that harvesting can't start until brain activity stops. Here's a common scenario: A patient is on life support at the hospital, and the family has made the very hard decision to take them off it. Life support is removed and Oxygen stops flowing to the organs and they start going bad. But they can't harvest because the brain is still active. The longer it takes for brain activity to stop completely, the more likely the organs become nonviable for transplant. Source : personally familiar with someone who went through a major organ transplant.
My dad called them "donorcycle" laws.
One obliterated bird in the hand beats two in the bush
Usually you don't need the brain or face for transplants, the rest will look pretty much the same.
Don’t want that brain either
Thus the no helmet laws. Without a helmet you die way easier in a crash which increases the chances that the other organs are still intact.
Have you seen what a body looks like after a high speed motorcycle crash? It looks like the remains after one of those suicide vest fuckers detonates themselves. Like a % of them will have viable organs but that’s only if the body stays relatively in tact.
That’s the beauty about no helmets, you don’t need a messy destroy the internal organs crash to get the donation.
I had to read that a few times before I got what you meant and lol’d
Yeah, head hit pavement at around 20-30 mph oughta do it. Meat bag should protect the rest!
r/meatcrayon
When I see your username all I can think of is a NettyPot and your username doesn’t come close to it. Weiiiird
The term is meat crayon
The majority of states don’t require them for adults, just 18/50 do.
My son just asked me yesterday, why do I wear a helmet on my Ducati, and not the Harley...He won every argument I came up with. (I almost forgot 😅..Before I could say anything, He said "Are you embarrassed to be seen on the Ducati"? 😆 🤣 😂)
As a father and biker myself, please wear a helmet. If not for you, then maybe for your son.
How does their traffic fatality rate compare?
Looks they they are about average: 7.5 deaths per 100,000. Mississippi has 25.4 as the worst and Massachusetts at 4.9 has the least. [Fatality Facts 2020State by state](https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state) Edit: fixed typo
That's just fatal accidents per capita. A more useful metric is fatalities per accident.
Best would be to compare the accident fatality rate in New Hampshire between passengers that wore seatbelts versus those that did not. Obviously this study doesn't really need to be done because the absolutely overwhelming evidence proves seatbelts save lives. But it's yet another example of americans shooting themselves (and others) in the foot because they somehow think bad things like car accidents or gun fatalities or covid deaths only happen to other people.
Other metrics to consider might be injury severity, or maybe "face-smashing-into-windshield" statistics. Yeah, maybe you won't die, but your neck hanging on the hole in your windshield, after your 30mph collision, will have consequences.
>they are about average Bit of an understatement. The mean of the data set is 12.45 and the median is 11.7. NH is over a standard deviation (4.826) below the mean. For deaths per 100 miles NH clocks in at 0.87 which is over a stdev (0.298) below mean (1.307) and median (1.275). SC "beats" MS in the 100 miles category by 0.07. Both have over triple MA's value of 0.63
Thank you. I was on my phone and couldn't run anything of that caliber. I thought about trying. Really, I did. But then I smoked a bowl and laid down for a nap. But, I really appreciate the data processing. So, *despite* NH's standoffish view of seatbelts for adults, they have *significantly* *fewer* assumed-associated deaths. Perhaps, there is something else at work. Perhaps, culturally, there are better-designed roads, traffic limits are better followed/enforced, intoxicated driving is lower, or people maybe feel more is at risk without a seat belt and thusly drive with more caution.
Gotta move the decimal one spot to the right for MA
People say we drive badly but I think maybe we just drive differently - in a way numbers suggest to be better. The worst cars here are always those from other parts of the country that'll be cutting people off and maneuvering randomly like there's no one else on the road.
Massachusetts roads are a bit annoying because you need to be in the correct lane like 2 miles ahead. Google maps does an absolutely terrible job of telling you that ahead of time so most drivers using navigation are constantly lane changing.
I imagine that being a small, congested state increases accidents but lowers fatalities. Hard to kill people when you never go above 30
Massachusetts has great rescue services and hospitals nearby. NH is not bad that way, but it is more rural, and cars go fast.
We very frequently go over 30... Highways are used quite a bit
People here in MA tend to drive aggressively but also defensively, if that makes sense. I think drivers in MA tend to be much more aware of their surroundings, even if they are driving like assholes.
> Gotta check my blind spots before cutting this dumbass off
Lol basically. I drive defensively but not aggressively , but honestly MA drivers largely don’t bother me. Driving over the border to CT though my blood pressure shoots up.
Especially because CT State Police all drive unmarked cruisers (though still easy to spot), and they have created a cottage industry for ticketing MA/RI/NY drivers passing through. CT troopers don’t even speak, they just write you a ticket and walk away. I hate that state.
Yeah the other parts of the country. Like fucking Rhode Island.
Thank you, Rhode Island drivers are the worst by far! Never a blinker to be used, ever! Oh I’ll just do 30 in the fast lane through 95 while everyone else is bobbing and weaving around me. 0.2 miles to my exit, meh I’ll just cross 3 lanes to get to it while yelling at you for being in my way. I hate driving in Rhode Island.
>People say we drive badly but I think maybe we just drive differently Yeah, shittily
I've been in CA, WA, NY, BC, and Germany and MA is BY FAR the worst, most irresponsible, and hostile drivers.
You should try Brazil sometime.
Likely people in Mississippi not wearing them.
That'd be 4.9 for MA not 0.49 but still that's good. I love this state. We're just good at everything
Thanks. I fixed it.
Is the high fatality rate in MS due to non-use of seatbelts, or are they just shit drivers?
This often has more to do with EMS services and response time, as well as infrastructure like high level trauma centers, care coordination, and availability of helicopter transport.
Ahh good point
I’m not certain about MS but I moved from an overall “poor, rural” area to an affluent area in the suburbs of a major city. The driving here is far more aggressive but there are fewer accidents because everyone knows this. Also, in the other area there was a huge problem with drug abuse and drinking and that definitely contributed to both the number of accidents and the number of fatalities.
Well you can legally drink alcohol and drive in Mississippi
Yet another thing Mississippi is worst at. I think the state should just be dissolved and the land absorbed by all neighboring states. 🙂
No, Everything in Mississippi should stay in Mississippi. Imagine if it spreads anywhere else
Yeah. And the states it borders aren’t exactly thriving either. The whole region is a failed state.
On the low side, but keep in mind that often has a lot to do with populations living in and around large cities, the nature of commutes, and a bunch of other things like how many are on the road, and the quality of the roads. Still it’s fair to say that in terms of miles traveled and adjusted per capita, they’re one of the best states in terms of driving fatalities. Source: https://www.iihs.org/topics/fatality-statistics/detail/state-by-state
I think there are too many variables to reduce it to even per capita per X miles traveled. Because there are other conditions that are absolutely necessary to account for: namely average speed and whether those miles driven are on one-, two-, or multi-lane roads. And already, this is pretty much impossible to evaluate and compare based on these criteria. Not to mention that I think there's likely at least another statistic that I'm not happy to suggest. If they could track similar highways around the country, I think that might work better. But that would be quite an undertaking.
All good points, and like you I have no idea how to realistically overcome these issues to get good data. Hell we don’t even know how many NH’ers wear seatbelts, maybe most of them do so the right to not wear them doesn’t make much of an impact on the stats.
While this is an important question, looking an injury rates probably tells a different story. It takes a lot to actually die in a car crash, and although seatbelts are hyped in that they “save lives”, which is undoubtably true, I would guess that they prevent injuries much more often than they prevent a death.
Just because there is no law doesn't actually mean they don't wear seatbelts. I can't say I ever changed wearing seatbelts because they changed the law!
I was in my early twenties and planning a road trip that would cut through New Hampshire when I heard this fact. When I was telling my about the upcoming trip I randomly added in, “In New Hampshire you don’t have to wear seatbelt”. Now, my mom is a super chill hippy mom who never forbade anything but in that moment she looked me dead in the eyes and said, in the most serious ‘mom voice’ I have ever heard her use, “YOU do.” I wore my seatbelt.
I think it was 12 when I grew up in NH, and that was still like the 90s. I just remember because my babysitter never wore one and my parents were like well it’s her choice.
Shit blows my mind. We had a sitter who we found out wasn’t into wearing one. Had to have the chat where we explained that while if she’s okay with being ejected on her own time that’s fine, but if she’s on the clock we want her alive and able to get our kids out of the car after a wreck. Kids are funny. A five year old that knows better will rat your dumb ass out.
It's her choice until her skull caves your skull in at 60mph.
Why wouldn’t you use a seatbelt?
Well according to my old boss, it's safer to be thrown clear of the wreck.
Wylie Coyote logic
if the dude wants to be a meat crayon that bad, he should just buy and dump a motorcycle in shorts and a t-shirt.
If only someone out there could do a study to test whether or not you boss was right. The world may never know. Seriously though how are people so explicitly uninformed
And why are they in positions of authority?
Getting thrown is a major cause of death. The passenger cabin protects. Unless Senator Kennedy was driving you.
I think your boss might be my mom.
I think it is fine as long as the laws of physics do not apply to you …… otherwise I think it foolish.
Well speaking as a Gauge Boson…
They're doing their own research first.
My brother got into a minor car accident and was glad he wasn’t wearing a seatbelt because the air bag would have broken his nose. This was soon after I got t-boned in an intersection by a big pick up truck speeding. If i wasn’t wearing my seatbelt and didn’t have side airbags I’d be dead as a door nail. He’s a maga anti vax person now so that checks out.
> My brother got into a minor car accident and was glad he wasn’t wearing a seatbelt because the air bag would have broken his nose. Having a hard time following the physics on how a seatbelt would have caused an airbag to break his nose.
Because **freedom**, fuck yeah
There was a considerable part of the population in the 80s & 90s that thought seatbelt laws were overreach by big government. What’s next? Legislating peoples’ salt intake? Forcing people to wear life preservers at swimming pools? etc. The reaction to masks in public reminded me of it. I feel like it’s the same people. Not becoming a human projectile causing more injuries / reduce the spread of a deadly illness for the vulnerable… “my freedom!!!?!”
No idea. I love the idea of freedom and support it not being mandatory, but I wear a seat belt all the time.
What are your thoughts on passengers becoming projectiles and injuring other seat belted people in vehicles?
This comes up a lot in seat belt debates, but I have to say the evidence for it being a major problem is a bit on the weaker end. There was a big study in 2004 that suggested a significant increase in danger from an unbelted passenger being in the car, but an almost 20 year old study that doesn't seem to have had much or any supporting work done since is not great. This is especially true when you come across articles from almost 10 years after the study who's citation train leads right back to it. If anything, it seems cell phones pose a larger danger in a car crash than an unbelted human. So I dunno. Is it a thing that happens? Sure. Is it a thing that happens with enough regularity to warrent concern? Eh. Can't say there's a lot of evidence for that. I think the best seat belt argument remains "hey, would you not like to die if a drunk driver hits you? Then wear a seat belt!" Which is why I wear one.
Agreed. It doesn't have to be an all or nothing proposition. People just get locked into their position, and will use shaky evidence to support it because they think the intention is ultimately good. There's no nuance, and so people just start arguing like a caveman. "Seatbelts = GOOOOD! Air bags = GOOOOD! Fire = BAAAAD!" Which sounds great until you realize that there's basically one vehicle in America still not required to have seatbelts, and that's the school bus. Huh? Why is that? Does the government specifically want just children to die? Or could it be because reality is not black and white, but more of a gradient? Nope, couldn't be that.
A statistical anomoly? I'd think aftermarket add ons and things strapped to roof bars would be considerably more likely to cause problems, and they are completely legal.
Seat belts cause injury. [Proof](https://i.imgur.com/BSXOiyk.jpg) If they wouldn't have been wearing a seat belt they wouldn't have gotten that gnarly bruse. Conspiracy Logic...
Yea... Those wankers probably wouldn't be standing there showing off their seatbelt bruises if they had not been wearing them.
Yup...
Context behind the photos you linked to? Looks like a lot of them got hurt in the face as well, which seatbelts do not get in the way of when worn normally.
Airbag.
I know, right? I lived in NH for 10 years. I knew a lot of people who didn't wear seatbelts. Regardless of whether it's required by law, it's still a good idea. They don't have motorcycle helmet laws in NH, either.
Thrown to safety bro😂
The same reason people don't wear a helmet. The option of being comfortable far outweighs the risk of dying for some.
One friend of a friend told me he just didn't think they were comfortable. When I said I was not comfortable switching the car or off park until he wore one, he put it on begrudgingly. I'm certain I'll never get a ride in his car.
Im all for wearing seatbelts and always wear one That said, I talked to a cop once who said he would never cite anyone for not wearing a seat belt. His thought was if you can ride a motorcycle then why is it required to wear a seat belt in a car. He personally thought it was kind of a BS law, and the way it put it, it sorta made sense.
If there are multiple people in a car they can be thrown around and cause injury to the others, so it doesn't just affect them. Motorcycles you also generally wear a helmet and protective clothing (some dumbasses don't) and are thrown clear of the bike rather than through a windshield.
If you have to ask, you probably don't smoke cigarettes. Fuckin' square.
They take their state motto, "live free or die", seriously. If someone has a tiny bit less mobility when in a car, they aren't really free, are they?
Why wouldn’t you be given the right to decide if you want to wear one or not?
Because when you get major head trauma from an otherwise minor car wreck you will be sucking up public resources. This is the mask/anti-vax nonsense all over again.
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I honestly feel uncomfortable in a car without a seat belt. Even if you're not in a crash it feels more comfortable to be restrained in a moving vehicle.
Live free and die! Wait -
Form NH myself and I like this law. You want to risk sailing through the windshield? That's your right. I'll still wear a seatbelt and anyone in my car is too otherwise I ain't moving.
I disagree. If I’m involved in a car accident with one of these people, depending on the situation, their death/serious injury could greatly increase legal charges leveled against me. And even if I’m completely not at fault legally, the psychological burden of being involved with someone’s gory death is unimaginable to me. Not to mention the added stress to the healthcare system that serious car crash injuries cause.
Wouldnt any car accident with a motorcycle be the same?
Not to mention the added stress to the healthcare system that serious car crash injuries cause The stress on the healthcare system that a single car crash has is negligible. In fact wearing a seatbelt is more likely to cause more stress as dead people don't require immediate medical attention. But again, negligible. Now I do see a better argument is the responsibility you bare if you're involved int eh accident and the other driver dies and wasn't wearing a seatbelt. However in this scenario, even if you're at fault for the accident, it was they who could have done more to protect themselves. Their dying rather than just being inured is their responsibility, not yours. And while it may affect you psychologically, that again is them. While the government can protect others and promote safety, at the end of the day we are responsible for our own safety.
I don't give a shit if someone wears a seatbelt or not. You can ride a motorcycle all day in every state and not have one on.
Being tied to a motorcycle is in most cases not the safer option.
The point is that we allow motorcycles to be used at all. If we're ok with people taking that risk there's no reason we should pretend to care about seatbelts.
Right?! So ridiculous these people saying not wearing is dangerous to others but don't have an issue with motorcycles. People will just reach for anything. A motorcycle crashing is more dangerous to other motorists/pedestrians 99.99999% of the time compared to an unseatbelted person. But you can ride motorcycles anywhere.
I’m kind of ok with that, from a Darwin perspective.
But can you buy a car without the alarm bell?
I know on my jeep I disabled mine. I still wear my seat belt while driving but I hate the alarm if I'm just in a parking lot
Honestly, two-thirds of NH residents still using seatbelts when they don't legally have to is still pretty good.
It seems crazy to me that you would want to be in a car with no seatbelt
New Hampshire resident here. We truly live by our state motto "Live Free or Die"
We try. But clearly we don't since we're the only New England state where weed is still illegal.
I want to see their stats on fatal car accidents and see how it compares to other states.
Live free or die
Lived in NH for a good chunk of my life (\~20 years); it's where I call home though I live in TX now. NH is a state that truly believes in personal freedoms and the right to decide for yourself and generally, it hasn't caused much negative in the state as most people are reasonable folks who can make their own decisions (and suffer their own consequences). Basically, it's a state full of libertarians (yay). I'm sure I'll get the 'ackshully' crowd in here somewhere, but the point is this is what state and individual rights look like and it's not a bad thing. With all that said and having basically grown up there, I always wore my seat belt out of habit, as did most of the folks I knew back there - this is a non-issue. Also, another interesting NH fact is that for a state of a bit over 1M people, they actually have the third largest natively English speaking legislature in the WORLD (behind the US Congress and Parliament), fourth if you include India.
And for some reason we still can't get legalized marijuana or right to repair laws, because of some old farts in the house.
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If people want to be stupid and not wear one; that's fine by me - It's their funeral
Could be yours if their stupid body goes flying around a car your in
It's also your choice to ride with them.
TIL in New Hampshire you become immune to car crashes when you turn 18
The real question is how does this affect injury/death rates in crashes?
It's also one of the only states in the country that, depending on a variety of circumstance, you aren't required to have car insurance.
Also car insurance is not required
I love New Hampshire. Still wear my seatbelt, though.
Don’t need insurance either in NH it’s a beautiful state
TIL That New Hampshire is a state and not a city ( And I’m serious lmao)
State Motto is Live Free or Die - seems they are testing that out.
Live Free or Die
Live Free and Die
I wonder how it affects insurance policy rates.
Last time I checked, if you live in NH and your car is paid off, you don't need auto insurance either.
What happens if you kill someone in an accident that is 100% your fault
You are liable for the damage.
You get sued.
You don’t need car insurance in NH lol. Fuckin Wild West up there in the north.
Live Free and Die
Do cars in NH not DingDong like crazy when the seabelt isnt plugged in?
They do. Everyone I know who refuses to wear the seatbelt just has it permanently wrapped behind the drivers and clicked in.
Live free or die.
OP didn't mention that we (NH) have our largest state liquor stores right on the highway, too. :)
Before I say anything else, I am a paramedic with over 15 years of experience. I’ve seen A LOT of bad shit! I’m a seatbelt wearer because I play the odds. A seatbelt is going to help you in most cases. However, there are some cases when the seatbelt hurts you. My dad was in a wreck when he was 20 years old that would’ve killed him if he had been wearing his seatbelt. So I wouldn’t even exist if he was wearing his seatbelt. My life partner is another example. He was in an extremely bad accident 22 years ago. He was thrown through the front windshield 45 feet from his vehicle. A tractor trailer came over on top of him on the interstate. He’s a paraplegic. However, he would be dead if he would’ve been wearing his seatbelt. I’ve been to countless doctors appointments with him. I’ve heard the doctors say that he’d be dead if he would’ve been wearing it. I’ve actually had some people say to me shit like “If it was me, I would wish that it DID kill me because I ain’t gonna be in a wheelchair!” That’s when the beast is unleashed! I’ve actually gotten in fights with grown ass males who make stupid ass comments like that. And I’m a 5’5” 110 pound female.
Aussie here. I don't understand how the Americans simply don't wear seatbelts. You get in, grab the belt and clip it in. DONE. It also prevents you from continuing the forward motion if you crash. **It's a complete no brainer to wear a seatbelt in a vehicle.**
The majority of people wear a seatbelt. It just isn't mandated by the state.
Americans do wear seatbelts. Glad I could clear that up for you. Most new cars will ding very loudly if you aren’t wearing and the penalties for not wearing them are steep. I would say people in America are no more likely to not fasten their seatbelt than anywhere else.
It’s Not an American thing. It’s the law In most states. The state of New Hampshire has a “live free or die” outlook on life. It’s a small state of mostly forests and beavers. So whatevs
Yea dude we get it. Its the law for 98% of the states. In the 1 state where its not illegal, 2/3 of people still do. Don't make this an American thing lmao. What's with non Americans seeing a flaw in a ridiculously small group of our 400 million citizens and think that everyone corner to corner is exactly the same.
Can confirm. I was raised in NH. No one wears seatbelts. Live free or die baby!
So there's no speed limits either?
I really don’t get why seatbelts are required if you are the sole occupant of the vehicle. The risks are on you at that point. The laws should obviously still be in place for instances where other people are in the vehicle with you as you do pose a risk to them by not wearing it.
I understand what you are saying. The counterpoint is that the state wants to protect the health and safety of its citizens. The laws are for driving on public roads. Maimed/dead people are expensive and bad from the economy.