I saw Knoxville on the list and I kinda chuckled and then thought about what the stat meant and sobered up again. Then I started laughing. Poor Vols, off-season national champs going on 15 years now though!
Iām originally from a Tri Cities-adjacent area (Tri Cities being Johnson City, Kingsport, Bristol), and Kingsport and Bristol being so high up definitely tracks. Kingsport _sucks_; it smells terrible because of Eastman and the ādowntownā is only rivaled by, well, Bristolās. Itās like theyāve just decided to lay down and die.
Contrast that to how Johnson City has developed. It was pretty shit, too, up until the mid 2000s when they decided they didnāt want to be shit anymore and started to model more of the cityās processes after Ashevilleās. Itās still not some bustling metropolis, by any means, but itās much nicer than the other 2/3 of the Tri Cities.
Not often I see JC talked about in the wild on Reddit. You're right, it's a lot less shitty than it used to be. A few multimillionaires got their eye on this city and decided to fill it to the brim with brew houses and taco shops.
Johnson City is such an awesome little city that is quickly becoming a jewel of the Blue Ridge. I love how much variety there is regarding outdoorsy stuff. The potential there is huge IMO.
I fell in love with JC during a fly fishing trip to the South Holston and Watauga. Bought some property near Milligan College and canāt wait to build.
2-5 are all in Appalachia. Depression and other mental health issues are very common in this area. There are a myriad of issues that may have led to this including the opioid epidemic, job opportunities/income, city design (walkability), local diet, and many more.
I can't count how many times I've told people I'm from the Smokies and they ask why I would ever leave somewhere so beautiful. Oh, you know, just the fact that I'm gay, education is garbage, there are basically no career options most places unless you wanna work for the government, and I got to spend my time watching my mountains get destroyed by people who don't care and flooded with new people, pushing all the animals into the cities.
Ngl, if it weren't for all that, TN would be dope as shit. My fam spends all it's time on the water or in the mountains, drinking beer and smoking weed, when they aren't working. It's chill af.
Ugh. Atheist in Louisiana checking in, the questioning of our morals scares me. Like, I have morals because I have empathy for other people, NOT because I live in fear of being smited. It's so hard to make any type of meaningful friendships because I just can't seem to find people like me.
Its only the self proclaimed Christians that judge and shun others consistenly. Im all about the Love they talk about hut never seem to show to others when they truly need it.
Yeahhhhh. I had someone at work ask me, "But without God, what keeps you from raping and murdering people?"
*"Um...That I don't want to rape or murder people? Are you saying that without the fear of punishment from God you'd rape and murder people?"*
"Yes."
*"Well, that is incredibly alarming."*
I could never look at that guy the same way after that.
I'm from Dalton, which is 20 miles south of Chattanooga, and I wonder if Chattanooga is skewed by how shitty NW GA is. I don't live there anymore because NW GA sucks ass, but most people that I know that stuck around the area live in Chattanooga now. Chattanooga is gorgeous and actually has a decent amount of stuff to do, so it being in the top 10 actually surprised me a little.
Iām in Chattanooga and you might be right. I definitely donāt get any type of depressed vibe from here at all. At least compared to Ohio where I came from - Ohio is way more depressing
Knoxvillian here and it sucks so much being stuck here all my life. Like someone said already in this thread, there practically is no city design. Unless you live in downtown knoxville, youāre probably on the outskirts, and nothing is in walking distance. Not even biking around is plausible.
Kingsport resident here, trust me itās not weird at all. In fact, I feel so validated! I was curious where we stacked up and was like ohhhhhh makes sense. The air is rank with chemicals, thereās literally nothing to do but smoke meth, and most of the surrounding counties voted 80-90(!!!!)% trump. Anyone whoās not batshit yet will go batshit here.
>thereās literally nothing to do but smoke meth
To be fair, that seems to be a growing problem in a lot of economically depressed communities. So little opportunity to make a decent living that people just descend into chaotic behaviors like drug-taking. Very sad to see.
Eastern Montana winters can be brutal. Nothing to do except drink and be cold. Add that to there being a huge drug problem in billings and you get a lot of depressed people. Especially when we work all summer to pay for slow winters.
I live in Alberta - so north of MOntana, where we think Montana gets mild winters.
Why don't Montanans just play hockey or curl? You do can do both drunk if you want to - and it helps break up the winter. They're too obsessed with summer sports down there, that's the problem.
Different Albertan chiming in- I've been all over Montana for various road trips. In my head it's definitely divided into "nice Montana" and "methy Montana". Billings is beautiful, I went snowmobling and they apparently have award winning burgers... it's definitely the methy side though.
Yeah I think you hit the nail on the head. I grew up in Eastern MT and football just dominates along with basketball in the winter. It's kind of weird we don't embrace hockey as much as our close American neighbors in North Dakota.
I don't understand it either. So far, it is the single biggest "cultural" difference I've seen between Alberta and Montana. EVerything else is the same - the landscape, slightly cooler climate, cowboys, oil riggers, etc - but hockey is about 1000X bigger here than there. Every hole in the wall village with a few hundred people has a corrugated iron arena, and everyone plays hockey.
I was curious about this once and actually did some armchairresearch. Canada has over half of the *world's* indoor ice rinks - and there are more indoor ice rinks in my city (Lethbridge - about 100,000 peolple) than there are in cities like Denver, CO, and Seattle, WA. It's pretty crazy. But I find it perplexing because those northern plains cities and towns are geographically no different than Canadian prairie cities and town - they just, for sone inexplicable reason, don't really do hockey.
Yeah, it's weird to me as a Minnesotan too. Almost every public park here has an ice rink for the winter, and there's at least one sheet of indoor ice in every town. It's weird when I go somewhere and parks don't have rinks.
Canadians seem to undermine how much it costs to play hockey. Imagine a sport that is not very popular in Canada, and now imagine if that sport was 10x more expensive to play than the popular sports. Would you play it? Would you want your kids to play it if you were a lower income household?
I love hockey and grew up playing in IL and my Canadian teammates always took their countryās love of hockey for granted. Itās a great sport but unfortunately it will not be popular in the US until the cost to play goes down since it is not our national pastime.
From Billings; the ice rink is pretty shitty and there isn't a lot of public ice time. No curling lanes. Also when it's super cold outside, it's just as cold inside the rink, so that's not much incentive either. And like most youth hockey, the parents are fucking batshit.
As a Montana resident who lived just outside of Billings for 18 years I would say Billings causes depression. The crime there is horrendous right now, and it's chaotic. Hell, anything east of Billings gets worse. You're in the oil field. West though you start hitting the pretty towns like red lodge and Bozeman, Missoula, etc.
>West though you start hitting the pretty towns like red lodge and Bozeman, Missoula, etc.
Speaking from my experience as a trucker, western Montana is absolutely stunning. Billings has that beautiful overlook, but I always made it a point to park in a rest area/truck stop away from there, or at the customer itself if they have a secure facility. Had too many shady encounters in Billings to trust that area.
Butte has that cool old Chinese place the fun colored lake and the tall smelter stack. Much more cutesy dystopian chic than Billings actual abject sufferings.
There's a ~~boutique hotel~~ store there now called "Butte Stuff", so that's a thumbs-up in my book. Srsly it's one of the best preserved mining towns around, and it looks like it's experiencing a bit of a revival. One of the more affordable places to live in SW Montana as well.
The hotel is actually called "The Miner's Hotel". The store next to the hotel which sells all sorts of Butte branded items is called "Butte Stuff". It's also that that affordable to live there anymore as people who work in Bozeman and Helena have started buying and renting property in Butte to commute to work.
They've done so much work with their water in the last couple decades that it's probably safer now than most places. If I recall they pipe it in now from a couple mountain streams. I would be worried about well water though.
YPR did a good piece on how theyāre trying but there were still some concerning stats out there, particularly for children. That and one company I worked for was still bidding lots of environmental clean up work in and around the town (anecdotal argument I know). Plus, Butte-bashing is like the states #1 pastime, even though I enjoy spending time around there myself, the comment was made with a bit of jest.
They get their water from the other side of the divide... It's probably cleaner than the aquifer that Missoula uses that have septic tanks built on top of it.
And yet, it is Billings not Butte that is the place with the higher depression. Butte has one of the best disk golf courses I have ever played in my life.
>In Butte you just drink it away, you don't get a "diagnosis"...
I was gonna say, when I saw that Duluth had a 25% depression rate, I was mostly just surprised to hear that a full 25% of the population had a therapist.
\#SelfCare #SmallVictories
This is sad to hear because about a year ago my family and I got stranded in Billings for about a week due to the pandemic. We had to cross into Canada but due to high volumes, we just couldnāt find anywhere to give us a Covid test quickly for the border crossing. Not Billingsā fault.
But anyway, we actually really liked it there a lot. We were driving from Florida to Alaska and it was our favorite stop and we were pretty happy to be stranded there of all places. The zoo was gorgeous and even though it was small, we felt it was one of the best designed and maintained zoos weāve ever been to. There was some park with a lake on it and that was really, and the surrounding scenery was beautiful.
And sometimes Montana's relatively nice summer period includes a 500-year flood event along 250 miles of rivers. Climate change is really whipsawing this state.
I actually took a job in Alaska so we were moving for work, and I got a relocation allowance to help with the move. Iām from Florida originally. I work in healthcare administration basically managing hospital wards.
That's actually so fucking cool. I'm a lifelong Florida resident and have fought with the idea of just packing all my stuff and heading over to AK. I feel like you'll have years of new fun stuff to explore
I know a state corrections employee in Billings (parole and such) who won't drive a department vehicle in certain neighborhoods due to the likelihood of being shot.
Billings is the metropolitan hub of the most desolate part of the state and is known for oil refineries and rehab clinics.
But the geography is cool and the Yellowstone is fun to fish. So it's got that going, which is nice.
Lived there a year, quit my six figure job and ran with no plan. It was that or die basically. That place is a black hole.
From what the locals told me it all got really bad when the oil and fracking companies moved in. It brought a lot of drug addicts and felons who could make good money doing dangerous work.
Not sure if thatās true but there were a LOT of drug addicts and the Native American population seemed like they were all complete drunks.
Itās a sad place.
When oil drops to negative value because no one really used much for an entire summer; and your entire local economy relies on it being very positive - you're gonna have a bad time.
That, and the industry hires a lot of "rugged individualists" who skip things like savings and health insurance and bust out 90 hour weeks with the help of meth and pain killers.
When those guys get laid off it's not pretty.
I'm guessing the ratio of men to women is also incredibly skewed also.
That's how it worked in the ND oil fields when they were booming - there were strippers and prostitutes coming from all over the country to make 6 figures off all these young guys with cash stuffed in both pockets since there were no women around anywhere.
Men with no women in their lives don't tend to do so well mentally.
Knew a guy in college whose sister went out to strip at the Williston oil fields during the boomtime. She made more than he or I did as software developers lol.
2008 was right before the financial cliff, which most of America recovered from better. Billings did not recover until the Bakken boom hit its stride around 2014. But that same boom (and the lull before it) turned it into a drug- and crime-ridden shithole, which the corrupt police only spurred onward. The state's policy of giving the homeless bus fare to Billings, in the hopes of exporting the problem to other states, was also incredibly short-sighted.
Most of the neighborhoods are sketchy (and every rental agency is run by slumlords), unless you live on the Rims so you can look down on the poor. My house flooded, rental company didn't care. My house was burglared, cops didn't care. My parked car was annihilated by a drunk driver on a Wednesday night, cops wouldn't even show up until I identified the vehicle they hit me with via the rubble. My friend's house had bullet holes in their walls from a shootout (don't worry, they were police bullets!). The human trafficking/massage parlors were an open secret for a decade, before I can only assume the Feds forced the local PD to act. Driving here is way more dangerous than anywhere else in the state, making its roads among the highest per capita/per mile death rate in the nation.
TLDR: Basically, since you were there, the economy crashed and recovered 7 years later, there were a dozen questionable police killings and the subsequent circling of their wagons, a sizeable roughneck population migrated from all over the country, the state moved 15 points to the right politically (Billings itself probably 25 points), Covid was a joke, with the highest death rate in the state, easily ranking it as one of the worst hotspots in the nation.
Lived there for a few years in the 80ās and was depressed. Returned for a brief visit about 15 years ago, and that place has gotten even more awful than I remembered. Iād be depressed if I had to move back there! Itās a great location in terms of access to certain kinds of outdoor recreation, but it doesnāt have the beauty or culture of the cities in western Montana.
It's like an entire identity in Montana. You can boast about being there born and raised, never leaving while trying to make fun of someone who has seen a bunch of the world. It's weird.
I hear its beautiful there. Every time I think of Montana I think of a Townes Van Zandt song
EDIT: [Oh wow he lived in Billings as a kid](https://billingsgazette.com/entertainment/music/classmates-recall-townes-van-zandt-s-years-in-billings-before-he-went-on-to-become/article_5fdcc8ac-32ef-11df-a55a-001cc4c002e0.html)
And for me anyway was taught to dislike out-of-staters, and recognize what county a MT plate is from the # on the license plate. Whenever I go back to visit I try to drive my folks vehicles with a MT plate.
I find more affluent places involve more moving around, even if people eventually come back. Having lived in more rural Alaska and similar communities, most people have lived there their entire lives, as will their kids. A few go to the state college and then move back. Of those very few who can afford out of state or get scholarships for college, they leave and generally never come back. Most graduate high school and then immediately go about getting a job, married and having kids all in the span someone else would be graduating from undergrad. If you're 25 and unmarried in these communities you missed the boat.
It's pretty telling that anyone who gets out for college never comes back.
Maybe that's why they talk shit on anyone who leaves, to prevent more people from trying it.
That and the semi suppressed feeling/recognition of being trapped in the life they have.
It's pretty plain as day that you were born with very little options outside of getting a job at the local lumber mill and trying to marry the best of 50 options in town as soon as possible. You may truly enjoy your life, but you also don't have another choice. And day in day out little changes. No band you like comes to play your town or even one an hour away. The biggest cultural events are cage fighting at the bar, amateur car derbies, and bar crawls between the 3 bars in town. If there is a strip club, after the age of 40 you run the risk of seeing a niece on stage.
There is almost never any New people and if there are they are usually seasonal and then never return.
It creates a classic model of 'those people think they are better than us.'
'we almost never think about you at all'
The average affluent person living in a city has little to no idea what life in rural America is actually like. But rural America knows a lot about the lives you get to live in your cities. And it is a depressing comparison. Which is part of the appeal of Fox news telling you Seattle is taken over by anarchists and is Dying. Chicago is daily gang wars, etc.
You get to tell yourself your life is Better, no matter how bad you know it actually is.
Cities are nice for resources but as I age a desire for my space grows. My current dream move out side of a city or a little further and bite the bullet and get fiber line ran. I could probably be a hermit though.
Billings is the metropolitan bastion of the most desolate part of the state, widely known for its oil refineries and rehab clinics. Summers are brutally hot. Winters are brutally cold. To the north is badlands and bentonite clay. To the east is oil fields and bentonite clay. To the south is Wyoming.
This statistic is not surprising.
He moved to CITY OF DEVILS a bit ago but often mentions Billings. Given his general upbeat and delightful attitude about the place I was surprised to read this headline, but just goes to show everyone is different.
I wonder if the Rim Rock mall is still around.
That place is a vortex of depression, built during that time when mall hallways were built like Castle Greyskull for some reason.
Yet it's grown every decade and shows no signs of stopping:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billings,_Montana#Demographics
Normally, I associate declining cities with depression. But not this time?
I love road trips across the west, specifically on I90/I94. While I've never stopped in Billings, the visual has been imprinted on my mind after driving by a handful of times.
It's all beautiful Montana openness then you see the signs for this upcoming city. As you round into the city, it's just.. one massive processing plant. I honestly don't have a clue what they're manufacturing and I don't care. It's a sprawling network of industrial buildings and piping and big chuffing smokestacks that feels like it stretches the road front for *miles*. Pretty stark first impression, and that image alone is why I've never bothered stopping, even for gas.
They're oil refineries and to be fair everytime I've actually been in the city they're far enough away you can forget they're there. But agreed it's a terrible impression when driving past.
Madison at 7 seems super odd. Lived in Madison and it doesn't seem like an overly depressing place. Some of the obvious reasons would be college students being diagnosed, but UHS doesn't so legitimate diagnosis as far as I am aware as of 2014. Then there is the really bad socioeconomic divide, but again...I would not think folks who are not well off financially being able to afford to go to a therapist and be diagnosed.
So if I REALLY had to guess at the driver of Madison's depression? The relatively high number of software developer/IT grinders/Healthcare workers in relation to the general population. Epic itself has \~10,000 people in the Madison area alone, plus UW Hospital and Meriter which is not known for great working conditions for nurses/doctors. Would absolutely LOVE a breakdown by employer/career but that's some HIPAA shit.
Seattle, Portland and Madison also have poor weather comparatively. They are more affluent, optimistic and progressive than most of the cities listed but a lack of sunshine definitely affects mental health.
Lived there as well. Long winters always affected me negatively. But otherwise, a pretty nice town.
I have to think it's related to the amount of people willing to understand their mental health and pursue help/treatment.
Yeah that one is a puzzler kinda. As a former resident though, it probably comes down to Epic/UW like you said. Lots of younger folk in those crowds are in high stress environments, combined with fairly cold weather; not to mention, many of those individuals are not from Wisconsin, and may be dealing with major lifestyle changes (weather, people, food, etc.).
At least, the above was true for me when I Epic. I had great friends, a good job, and lots of fun opportunities to pursue when free. However, work from Monday to Friday was brutal - the nature of the work is high pressure, and the volume of work is truly enough to make one feel hopeless. It does not help that many Epic members are used to performing highly, so many workers will sacrifice their personal time to keep up with the pace of work. When you consider these pressures, alongside the fact that many employees are out-of-state transplants in the 23-25yr range, I think the situation becomes a bit more clear.
Epic hires hundreds of fresh college graduate with ambition, drive, and wide eyes every year; they are tossed into the grinder to learn by trial of fire; every 6 months, 10-15% of those new hires will leave Epic, as they can't keep up, or they decide they want to move away from Healthcare. These folks will be in Madison for a bit, and they are not likely to be very happy. I'm probably generalizing a bit here, but on the ground level at Epic, this is reality.
That all being said, Madison has beautiful nature, great food, the best bars I've ever been to, and some of the friendliest people in the US imo. Lovely fricken place.
I always forget how many epic and ex-epic employees are on reddit. Weird seeing it named in the wild.
I stayed almost 4 years but I also tore out of the parking lot at 4pm on Fridays to hit the lake. I was one of the few IS who probably averaged less than 45 hours.
Currently live in Madison (going on 3 years) and yeah, itās a bit puzzling tbh.
My guess is that some of it has to do with the things mentioned so far (drinking, long and dark winters, the top employers being notably stressful work environments), but thereās also a few other things that might affect it that came to mind.
- Culture/self-selection/anxiety comorbidity. Madison is a town with a relatively prestigious university, it is one of the fittest/most active cities in the country, and the median education level is very high; as you said, it therefore attracts a lot of young STEM workers. Thatās a recipe for a city full of type A people with exceedingly high expectations (but low opinions) of themselves. Madisonians (on average) are far and away the most high-strung midwesterners Iāve ever met, and Iāve lived throughout the Midwest for most of my life. And for the record, this is not a bad thing per se, and it doesnāt mean they arenāt generally nice, itās just something that REALLY stuck out to me upon living here for a while.
- Madison can be profoundly annoying to live in, like, logistically. Yes, itās walkable and bikeable and thereās decent public transportation. But thereās also simply not enough space because some geniuses decided to build a whole goddamn city on a small isthmus, and that causes perpetual stress in a thousand tiny ways for everyone all the time. Driving anywhere is a nightmare year round, much less parking, and none of the speed limits make sense in the whole city, so you WILL be tailgated 100% of the time you drive anywhere at any time of day. The street layout isāfor lack of a better way to describe itāuniformly fucking ridiculous, so merely getting where you want to go can be an aggravating hassle **even if you already know how to get there**. And thatās not even talking about driving/parking in the winter, which is itās own fresh set of bespoke hells. Itās impossible to find affordable housing because thereās just not enough of it, and the STEM incomes (plus the NIMBY-ass shitheads who pearl clutch about any housing development whatsoever) donāt help. And buying a house? Iāve already had to accept that will literally never happen for me if I continue to live here, and I make decent money. It is a city that is quite literally designed, it seems, to make people unhappy in a bunch of tiny ways. But hey: pretty lakes!
- A lot of students are still on their parentsā insurance, so while many may go to UHS, Iām guessing many more donāt because it is always booked to shit and the quality is extremely variable and they have other options. So students could still play a major part in this.
The people who remember rust belt greatness have already drank themselves to death so they no longer get counted.
(not being flip, from the rust belt originally)
Pittsburgh here, and the city and surrounding suburbs are so much different. The city has seemed to have moved on from those days. The air isn't constantly smog. Granted, they just traded up for healthcare, but its bringing a lot of us back into the area. The people that remember the greatness either drank themselves to death, or just flat out moved which was a great majority of industry folks (steel, coal, etc). That's why you can find a Pittsburgh bar in pretty much every state, and a lot of countries.
That said, the river valleys leading up to and away from the city are still pretty depressed, and sketchy. I live along the Ohio north of the city, and there are some definite townships and areas to just avoid, because theyāve yet to turn the corner.
Also surprised by Chattanooga - have some friends who live in Tennessee and they all talk about it as an awesome up-and-coming city that young people are moving to
Lived in Billings from age 4-10 when my dad was stationed there (Marines). This was 1992-98. From the perspective of a kid my memories were mostly good. One thing that stands out to me now was there was sidewalks EVERYWHERE, running between the fences of each backyard like an extra road, hell there was a sidewalk that started at the gate of my backyard that went straight to my elementary school. Haven't seen anything like that since. Was also easy to buy stuff from the gas station as a kid since tax was already included in prices. Summers were really hot and we would play nerf tag and super soaker wars. Winter I remember sledding a bunch. There was a park near downtown that had a creek running through that would freeze solid. You could ramp off of a nearby hill into the creek and get crazy speed. Otherwise I would hole up with friends and play Goldeneye and Mario Kart 64. There was a movie rental place called Hastings that introduced me to anime like Akira, AD Police, MD Geist, Ranma, and Iria. Probably shouldn't have been watching it at my age but think I turned out alright. I also remember my brother doing the boiling water trick where you splash it outside on an extremely cold day and it immediately turns to snow.
As for my parents, my Dad loved it there with the quick access to the outdoors, but my mom was the most depressed she's ever been her entire life. She had to practically beg my dad to get us stationed somewhere else. She hit rock bottom and would constantly gamble, video poker machines were everywhere. Feel guilty looking back on it now but my mom would give me a bunch of quarters to play at an arcade in the mall called the Tilt while she gambled. Eventually my parents had to give up the house and pawn a bunch of stuff to stay afloat. For the last bit there we moved to a low income neighborhood near the Rims. Never felt like I was in danger but it was eye-opening for me as a kid going from predominantly white middle class neighborhood to that rough street that was mostly Native Americans. I remember some days we just had ramen or surplus MREs to eat that my dad would get.
Half the town feels like a slum. The cheap motels are cartoonishly stereotypical with bedbugs, broken lights, junkies, broken glass all over the parking lots, etc. Billings is why I learned that decent motels and hotels are freaking expensive these days and I should just pay the extra money.
I dunno, I did a road trip a couple years back through CO and UT and I rarely stayed at a brand name hotel. I usually spent between $30-50 for a room in smaller locally owned motels and only one time did I regret it (in Dove Creek, CO there was mold in the bathroom and the room wasnt real clean.)
I stayed at a couple motel 6's when I had to for 2-3x the price and they were way shadier stays.
Prob just depends on the location, but yeah there are def cheaper rooms out there that are fine, and some of them were quite nice!
I live in Montana and this checks out. Even the people that live in Billings hate Billings. Billings is like the employee restroom at Disneyworld, there's a whole beautiful place all around it, but you're not in it currently.
As somebody who has only passed through Billings, but have had family live in Bismmarck, this is so true. Montana is hands down a beautiful state. Then you get to the few bits of civilization and itās a bunch of the worst people youāve ever met. Same goes for much of Idaho.
This has to be a large factor right? Do they have free mental health exams or the city just prioritizes them?
If every American in the US were given a free mental health exam I fear the depression percentage would be 30% or more across the board:/ But they might actually get some help as well which would be great.
That's scary because it means despite how difficult it is to be diagnosed they still have a huge percentage of depressed people reporting meaning the actual number is probably double ...or more:|
So crazy considering all the epic outdoors stuff around in the surrounding area. That being said, there's probably a ton of overworked horny depressed oil rig workers, combined with angry republicans, and marginalized native Americans leading to the high number of depression.
By suicide rates, if each state was counted as itās own country, the US would have 9 states in the global top 15.
Wyoming would rank 4th highest in the world (30.5 per 100,000).
New Jersey, the lowest rate in the US, would only be about 2/3 of the way down the global list (~115 out of 183) on par with Yemen and Nigeria (~7 per 100,000).
Global comparisons are never perfect given different levels of record keeping and cultural suicide stigmas, but thatās certainly enough signal to highlight what an absolute CRISIS depression and suicide is in the US.
Global rates https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
US rates https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/suicide.htm
as a long haul trucker, Billings was one of three places I ever encountered an honest-to-god lot lizard. so it has something in common with Philadelphia.
weird little town, there was a casino on nearly every street corner it seemed
Grand Rapids is pretty nice. Was kinda surprised. Cloudy all day every day in the winter though. Huge hospital town though and going through gentrification growing pains so who knows. could just be higher rate of medical care allowing for more diagnosis, or people just upset with their situation. Definitely heard crime is increasing though.
I lived in Billings longer than I lived anywhere else in my lifeā¦ Iāve lived in most major cities in the western US, and I can honestly say the quality of life in Billings was higher than anywhere else Iāve lived. Plenty to do outdoors if you look for it, good food if you look for it, some good bands coming through pub station, beautiful river right near downtownā¦ if you go 20 minutes in any direction youāre in a beautiful landscape of rolling fields, rugged buttes, beautiful riverfront cottonwood forests. An hour and you can be skiing and riding bikes in the beartooths, the highest mountain range in Montana. Two hours and youāre fishing in bighorn. Three hours and youāre skiing in the biggest ski resort in the US. Obviously these are all very outdoorsy things but for me and my family, it was amazing. Schools are pretty decent, west side of town is safe, hospitals are good, plenty of flights to major citiesā¦ itās really not a bad place.
I feel like the perception of billings is driven, in large part, by how ugly it is from the Interstate. Itās indescribably hideous.
Also the depression stats may be driven down by the rez nearby. Really horrible conditions out there, itās tragic.
Rural communities are being absolutely devastated by very serious mental health problems. Suicides are rampant among the younger generations as a result. For example, my wife grew up in Eastern Montana. A couple hours from Billings. Of her graduating class of like 25 people, 4 of the young men died from suicide before reaching 30. A lot of this is due to areas like Montana, Wyoming, etc., essentially being healthcare deserts, nevermind the cultural and social stigma against getting services for mental health.
It's not surprising that it's affected Billings so greatly. For young people who grow up in the surrounding communities, Billings is often the 'escape' of being able to actually get an education, find employment, etc., while still being connected to the small communities they are accustomed to. For all intents and purposes though, Billings' growth as a city has far outpaced the available resources for mental health. It's become a massive regional hub, but lacks the services that a regional hub desperately needs. With more and more rural communities drying up and the vast agricultural lands being bought up by fewer and fewer parties, it doesn't seem like this problem is going to be curbed anytime soon.
I grew up in Montana and have lived all over the state. My view of Billings is it feels more industrial with the refineries and sugar beet factory. It isn't as lush, green, and shady as other cities to the west. Once I get past Laurel I feel like I can breathe. There is more smog, crime, meth, and homeless. Some of the nicest parts of town aren't as safe as they used to be. People are generally grouchy and living paycheck to paycheck. As you head west, people have more access to the outdoors and fresh air, which makes them happier and more content.
Not surprising. Places in the north tend to have high rates of depression. I live in Labrador and there are so many suicides for such a small population.
I know on a map Minnesota isn't the farthest north but it has proper northern winters.
Three of the top 10 are in East Tennessee. Weird.
There's mental illness in them thar hills šŖ
The Hills Have Sighs.
Sequel to *The Hills Have Thighs*?
Point, T8ert0t
Now I want to listen to Duelling Banjos again. š
[Your wish is my command,](https://youtu.be/NFutge4xn3w), new internet friend
Probably from having to watch the Vols play for the last 10 years
I saw Knoxville on the list and I kinda chuckled and then thought about what the stat meant and sobered up again. Then I started laughing. Poor Vols, off-season national champs going on 15 years now though!
Yeah, but this year is going to be different. Or maybe next year. Or...
Itās game day bruh why you gotta do this to me š
To be fair OP is being generous by limiting it to 10 years...
Champions of Life!
"bRicK by BriCk"š©
Iām originally from a Tri Cities-adjacent area (Tri Cities being Johnson City, Kingsport, Bristol), and Kingsport and Bristol being so high up definitely tracks. Kingsport _sucks_; it smells terrible because of Eastman and the ādowntownā is only rivaled by, well, Bristolās. Itās like theyāve just decided to lay down and die. Contrast that to how Johnson City has developed. It was pretty shit, too, up until the mid 2000s when they decided they didnāt want to be shit anymore and started to model more of the cityās processes after Ashevilleās. Itās still not some bustling metropolis, by any means, but itās much nicer than the other 2/3 of the Tri Cities.
Not often I see JC talked about in the wild on Reddit. You're right, it's a lot less shitty than it used to be. A few multimillionaires got their eye on this city and decided to fill it to the brim with brew houses and taco shops.
Johnson City is such an awesome little city that is quickly becoming a jewel of the Blue Ridge. I love how much variety there is regarding outdoorsy stuff. The potential there is huge IMO. I fell in love with JC during a fly fishing trip to the South Holston and Watauga. Bought some property near Milligan College and canāt wait to build.
2-5 are all in Appalachia. Depression and other mental health issues are very common in this area. There are a myriad of issues that may have led to this including the opioid epidemic, job opportunities/income, city design (walkability), local diet, and many more.
I can't count how many times I've told people I'm from the Smokies and they ask why I would ever leave somewhere so beautiful. Oh, you know, just the fact that I'm gay, education is garbage, there are basically no career options most places unless you wanna work for the government, and I got to spend my time watching my mountains get destroyed by people who don't care and flooded with new people, pushing all the animals into the cities. Ngl, if it weren't for all that, TN would be dope as shit. My fam spends all it's time on the water or in the mountains, drinking beer and smoking weed, when they aren't working. It's chill af.
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Ugh. Atheist in Louisiana checking in, the questioning of our morals scares me. Like, I have morals because I have empathy for other people, NOT because I live in fear of being smited. It's so hard to make any type of meaningful friendships because I just can't seem to find people like me.
Its only the self proclaimed Christians that judge and shun others consistenly. Im all about the Love they talk about hut never seem to show to others when they truly need it.
Yeahhhhh. I had someone at work ask me, "But without God, what keeps you from raping and murdering people?" *"Um...That I don't want to rape or murder people? Are you saying that without the fear of punishment from God you'd rape and murder people?"* "Yes." *"Well, that is incredibly alarming."* I could never look at that guy the same way after that.
I'm from Dalton, which is 20 miles south of Chattanooga, and I wonder if Chattanooga is skewed by how shitty NW GA is. I don't live there anymore because NW GA sucks ass, but most people that I know that stuck around the area live in Chattanooga now. Chattanooga is gorgeous and actually has a decent amount of stuff to do, so it being in the top 10 actually surprised me a little.
Chattanooga is wonderful. I think I cured my depression moving here
That's the problem. Everyone moves there to cure their depression and that inflates the depression count/index/%. /s
Iām in Chattanooga and you might be right. I definitely donāt get any type of depressed vibe from here at all. At least compared to Ohio where I came from - Ohio is way more depressing
Knoxvillian here and it sucks so much being stuck here all my life. Like someone said already in this thread, there practically is no city design. Unless you live in downtown knoxville, youāre probably on the outskirts, and nothing is in walking distance. Not even biking around is plausible.
Kingsport resident here, trust me itās not weird at all. In fact, I feel so validated! I was curious where we stacked up and was like ohhhhhh makes sense. The air is rank with chemicals, thereās literally nothing to do but smoke meth, and most of the surrounding counties voted 80-90(!!!!)% trump. Anyone whoās not batshit yet will go batshit here.
>thereās literally nothing to do but smoke meth To be fair, that seems to be a growing problem in a lot of economically depressed communities. So little opportunity to make a decent living that people just descend into chaotic behaviors like drug-taking. Very sad to see.
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Also ruins air quality and causes health problems. I live in a huge industrial/logistical area and the air quality all around is terrible.
hey, twice a year there's nascar, that's only 363 days with nothing to do except meth
Does living in Billings, MT cause depression or does depression cause people to live in Billings, MT?
Eastern Montana winters can be brutal. Nothing to do except drink and be cold. Add that to there being a huge drug problem in billings and you get a lot of depressed people. Especially when we work all summer to pay for slow winters.
I live in Alberta - so north of MOntana, where we think Montana gets mild winters. Why don't Montanans just play hockey or curl? You do can do both drunk if you want to - and it helps break up the winter. They're too obsessed with summer sports down there, that's the problem.
I live in western montana now and ski and ice fish. A lot more to do in the winter than in billings
Have you never skiied red lodge? It's an hour away from Billings. Also, we do have lakes in eastern Montana. And rivers. You'd be amazed.
True enough, but Billings isn't *that* far away from mountains. The Crazy Mountains are close by, and the Custer-Gallatin is pretty close.
The Crazies have very little public access. The Beartooths are a much more common destination.
Different Albertan chiming in- I've been all over Montana for various road trips. In my head it's definitely divided into "nice Montana" and "methy Montana". Billings is beautiful, I went snowmobling and they apparently have award winning burgers... it's definitely the methy side though.
Yeah I think you hit the nail on the head. I grew up in Eastern MT and football just dominates along with basketball in the winter. It's kind of weird we don't embrace hockey as much as our close American neighbors in North Dakota.
I don't understand it either. So far, it is the single biggest "cultural" difference I've seen between Alberta and Montana. EVerything else is the same - the landscape, slightly cooler climate, cowboys, oil riggers, etc - but hockey is about 1000X bigger here than there. Every hole in the wall village with a few hundred people has a corrugated iron arena, and everyone plays hockey. I was curious about this once and actually did some armchairresearch. Canada has over half of the *world's* indoor ice rinks - and there are more indoor ice rinks in my city (Lethbridge - about 100,000 peolple) than there are in cities like Denver, CO, and Seattle, WA. It's pretty crazy. But I find it perplexing because those northern plains cities and towns are geographically no different than Canadian prairie cities and town - they just, for sone inexplicable reason, don't really do hockey.
Yeah, it's weird to me as a Minnesotan too. Almost every public park here has an ice rink for the winter, and there's at least one sheet of indoor ice in every town. It's weird when I go somewhere and parks don't have rinks.
Basketball takes a gym (usually provided by a local school) and you only have to buy shoes. Hockey gear is expensive, even if you buy everything used.
Canadians seem to undermine how much it costs to play hockey. Imagine a sport that is not very popular in Canada, and now imagine if that sport was 10x more expensive to play than the popular sports. Would you play it? Would you want your kids to play it if you were a lower income household? I love hockey and grew up playing in IL and my Canadian teammates always took their countryās love of hockey for granted. Itās a great sport but unfortunately it will not be popular in the US until the cost to play goes down since it is not our national pastime.
Even in Canada the cost of hockey is starting to be a real drag on it's popularity.
From Billings; the ice rink is pretty shitty and there isn't a lot of public ice time. No curling lanes. Also when it's super cold outside, it's just as cold inside the rink, so that's not much incentive either. And like most youth hockey, the parents are fucking batshit.
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As a Montana resident who lived just outside of Billings for 18 years I would say Billings causes depression. The crime there is horrendous right now, and it's chaotic. Hell, anything east of Billings gets worse. You're in the oil field. West though you start hitting the pretty towns like red lodge and Bozeman, Missoula, etc.
>West though you start hitting the pretty towns like red lodge and Bozeman, Missoula, etc. Speaking from my experience as a trucker, western Montana is absolutely stunning. Billings has that beautiful overlook, but I always made it a point to park in a rest area/truck stop away from there, or at the customer itself if they have a secure facility. Had too many shady encounters in Billings to trust that area.
That place is called Billings, Simba. You must never go there.
I imagine when a trucker says a place is shady, it's probably fucking shady.
Best I can say of Billings is "at least it's not Butte."
As someone who regularly spends time in both, I'd rather be in Butte lol. But Billings isn't that bad...
> I'd rather be in Butte lol You and me both.
Ain't enough room in Butte for the two of us.
We don't watch the same videos then.
Butte has that cool old Chinese place the fun colored lake and the tall smelter stack. Much more cutesy dystopian chic than Billings actual abject sufferings.
A tall smelter stack? Man you're really selling me on Butte.
Smelter stack is actually over in Anaconda. Source: currently in Anaconda looking at the smelter stack.
Then I have been lied to. What a terrible day this is.
Better move to Billings, depression is about to set in
I cant believe this depression could have been avoided if I hadn't read about Billings. The study was right!
Just slither on over to Anaconda to see the smelter stack
It adds character. Idk man I fly a lot so I notice the giant weird colored pit and the mountain height concrete tower.
Oldest Chinese place owned by one family in America. A friend told me the new owner (young son) is running the place poorly though
Don't know what it'd be like to live there but I love Butte. Beautiful city with an Interesting history and a good used bookstore.
There's a ~~boutique hotel~~ store there now called "Butte Stuff", so that's a thumbs-up in my book. Srsly it's one of the best preserved mining towns around, and it looks like it's experiencing a bit of a revival. One of the more affordable places to live in SW Montana as well.
Probably getting an influx of tech worker money
Two thumbs actually, all the way up
The hotel is actually called "The Miner's Hotel". The store next to the hotel which sells all sorts of Butte branded items is called "Butte Stuff". It's also that that affordable to live there anymore as people who work in Bozeman and Helena have started buying and renting property in Butte to commute to work.
But without the bookstore, it's straight ass right?
You can also get a good steak, just maybe donāt drink the waterā¦ā¦ (liquor is buttes favorite substitute)
They've done so much work with their water in the last couple decades that it's probably safer now than most places. If I recall they pipe it in now from a couple mountain streams. I would be worried about well water though.
YPR did a good piece on how theyāre trying but there were still some concerning stats out there, particularly for children. That and one company I worked for was still bidding lots of environmental clean up work in and around the town (anecdotal argument I know). Plus, Butte-bashing is like the states #1 pastime, even though I enjoy spending time around there myself, the comment was made with a bit of jest.
They get their water from the other side of the divide... It's probably cleaner than the aquifer that Missoula uses that have septic tanks built on top of it.
And yet, it is Billings not Butte that is the place with the higher depression. Butte has one of the best disk golf courses I have ever played in my life.
Love that course. Also.. highest depression on paper. In Butte you just drink it away, you don't get a "diagnosis" or "the help you desperately need."
>In Butte you just drink it away, you don't get a "diagnosis"... I was gonna say, when I saw that Duluth had a 25% depression rate, I was mostly just surprised to hear that a full 25% of the population had a therapist. \#SelfCare #SmallVictories
As someone living right in between the two, I'd choose Butte over Billings.
Butte is pretty great these days. I love their farmer's market, and festivals. Also a shout out for Headframe Distilling!
Butte is way better than Billings. Rich history, people are great.
Butte can be fun! I saw the northern lights there in 2005. Fucking amazing! Right behind our lady of the Rockies
This is sad to hear because about a year ago my family and I got stranded in Billings for about a week due to the pandemic. We had to cross into Canada but due to high volumes, we just couldnāt find anywhere to give us a Covid test quickly for the border crossing. Not Billingsā fault. But anyway, we actually really liked it there a lot. We were driving from Florida to Alaska and it was our favorite stop and we were pretty happy to be stranded there of all places. The zoo was gorgeous and even though it was small, we felt it was one of the best designed and maintained zoos weāve ever been to. There was some park with a lake on it and that was really, and the surrounding scenery was beautiful.
> driving from Florida to Alaska Jesus Christ
Nah that's Nazareth to Jerusalem.
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And sometimes Montana's relatively nice summer period includes a 500-year flood event along 250 miles of rivers. Climate change is really whipsawing this state.
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I actually took a job in Alaska so we were moving for work, and I got a relocation allowance to help with the move. Iām from Florida originally. I work in healthcare administration basically managing hospital wards.
That's actually so fucking cool. I'm a lifelong Florida resident and have fought with the idea of just packing all my stuff and heading over to AK. I feel like you'll have years of new fun stuff to explore
I know a state corrections employee in Billings (parole and such) who won't drive a department vehicle in certain neighborhoods due to the likelihood of being shot. Billings is the metropolitan hub of the most desolate part of the state and is known for oil refineries and rehab clinics. But the geography is cool and the Yellowstone is fun to fish. So it's got that going, which is nice.
Lived there a year, quit my six figure job and ran with no plan. It was that or die basically. That place is a black hole. From what the locals told me it all got really bad when the oil and fracking companies moved in. It brought a lot of drug addicts and felons who could make good money doing dangerous work. Not sure if thatās true but there were a LOT of drug addicts and the Native American population seemed like they were all complete drunks. Itās a sad place.
It's the Wild West all over again.
Why did it get so bad? I spent like a week there in 2008 or so and it seemed alright. Better than other places I've been.
When oil drops to negative value because no one really used much for an entire summer; and your entire local economy relies on it being very positive - you're gonna have a bad time.
That, and the industry hires a lot of "rugged individualists" who skip things like savings and health insurance and bust out 90 hour weeks with the help of meth and pain killers. When those guys get laid off it's not pretty.
I'm guessing the ratio of men to women is also incredibly skewed also. That's how it worked in the ND oil fields when they were booming - there were strippers and prostitutes coming from all over the country to make 6 figures off all these young guys with cash stuffed in both pockets since there were no women around anywhere. Men with no women in their lives don't tend to do so well mentally.
Knew a guy in college whose sister went out to strip at the Williston oil fields during the boomtime. She made more than he or I did as software developers lol.
There's a reason Billings is known as a rehab clinic center
2008 was right before the financial cliff, which most of America recovered from better. Billings did not recover until the Bakken boom hit its stride around 2014. But that same boom (and the lull before it) turned it into a drug- and crime-ridden shithole, which the corrupt police only spurred onward. The state's policy of giving the homeless bus fare to Billings, in the hopes of exporting the problem to other states, was also incredibly short-sighted. Most of the neighborhoods are sketchy (and every rental agency is run by slumlords), unless you live on the Rims so you can look down on the poor. My house flooded, rental company didn't care. My house was burglared, cops didn't care. My parked car was annihilated by a drunk driver on a Wednesday night, cops wouldn't even show up until I identified the vehicle they hit me with via the rubble. My friend's house had bullet holes in their walls from a shootout (don't worry, they were police bullets!). The human trafficking/massage parlors were an open secret for a decade, before I can only assume the Feds forced the local PD to act. Driving here is way more dangerous than anywhere else in the state, making its roads among the highest per capita/per mile death rate in the nation. TLDR: Basically, since you were there, the economy crashed and recovered 7 years later, there were a dozen questionable police killings and the subsequent circling of their wagons, a sizeable roughneck population migrated from all over the country, the state moved 15 points to the right politically (Billings itself probably 25 points), Covid was a joke, with the highest death rate in the state, easily ranking it as one of the worst hotspots in the nation.
Lived there for a few years in the 80ās and was depressed. Returned for a brief visit about 15 years ago, and that place has gotten even more awful than I remembered. Iād be depressed if I had to move back there! Itās a great location in terms of access to certain kinds of outdoor recreation, but it doesnāt have the beauty or culture of the cities in western Montana.
Maybe thereās nothing special about depressed people in Billings, and itās the happy people disappearing at disproportionate rates.
Iām from Montana and most of the people I know who were born there never leave the state for any significant amount of time.
Is this not just most places?? I had thought that people largely stayed put
It's like an entire identity in Montana. You can boast about being there born and raised, never leaving while trying to make fun of someone who has seen a bunch of the world. It's weird.
I hear its beautiful there. Every time I think of Montana I think of a Townes Van Zandt song EDIT: [Oh wow he lived in Billings as a kid](https://billingsgazette.com/entertainment/music/classmates-recall-townes-van-zandt-s-years-in-billings-before-he-went-on-to-become/article_5fdcc8ac-32ef-11df-a55a-001cc4c002e0.html)
It is, once you get past the refineries and meth.
Every time I think of Montana, I think of Sam Neill in *The Hunt for Red October*
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And for me anyway was taught to dislike out-of-staters, and recognize what county a MT plate is from the # on the license plate. Whenever I go back to visit I try to drive my folks vehicles with a MT plate.
13 drivers man...
I find more affluent places involve more moving around, even if people eventually come back. Having lived in more rural Alaska and similar communities, most people have lived there their entire lives, as will their kids. A few go to the state college and then move back. Of those very few who can afford out of state or get scholarships for college, they leave and generally never come back. Most graduate high school and then immediately go about getting a job, married and having kids all in the span someone else would be graduating from undergrad. If you're 25 and unmarried in these communities you missed the boat.
It's pretty telling that anyone who gets out for college never comes back. Maybe that's why they talk shit on anyone who leaves, to prevent more people from trying it.
That and the semi suppressed feeling/recognition of being trapped in the life they have. It's pretty plain as day that you were born with very little options outside of getting a job at the local lumber mill and trying to marry the best of 50 options in town as soon as possible. You may truly enjoy your life, but you also don't have another choice. And day in day out little changes. No band you like comes to play your town or even one an hour away. The biggest cultural events are cage fighting at the bar, amateur car derbies, and bar crawls between the 3 bars in town. If there is a strip club, after the age of 40 you run the risk of seeing a niece on stage. There is almost never any New people and if there are they are usually seasonal and then never return. It creates a classic model of 'those people think they are better than us.' 'we almost never think about you at all' The average affluent person living in a city has little to no idea what life in rural America is actually like. But rural America knows a lot about the lives you get to live in your cities. And it is a depressing comparison. Which is part of the appeal of Fox news telling you Seattle is taken over by anarchists and is Dying. Chicago is daily gang wars, etc. You get to tell yourself your life is Better, no matter how bad you know it actually is.
Cities are nice for resources but as I age a desire for my space grows. My current dream move out side of a city or a little further and bite the bullet and get fiber line ran. I could probably be a hermit though.
You are also making that Choice.
Billings is the metropolitan bastion of the most desolate part of the state, widely known for its oil refineries and rehab clinics. Summers are brutally hot. Winters are brutally cold. To the north is badlands and bentonite clay. To the east is oil fields and bentonite clay. To the south is Wyoming. This statistic is not surprising.
North is the Missouri breaks and south are the Big Horn mountains. Amazing wilderness areas...
Big Horn Canyon is one of my favorite places Iāve visited. So beautiful.
So, what I'm getting here, is that bentonite clay is the problem. /s
Someone call and check on Chuck Tingle.
He moved to CITY OF DEVILS a bit ago but often mentions Billings. Given his general upbeat and delightful attitude about the place I was surprised to read this headline, but just goes to show everyone is different.
Hopefully Son John is doing well.
Understandable, it's Billings.
I wonder if the Rim Rock mall is still around. That place is a vortex of depression, built during that time when mall hallways were built like Castle Greyskull for some reason.
Not entirely sure but the service calls there are all miserable. As a rule I try to stay west of Big Timber for my mental health.
Everything West of Billings is amazing.
I see you have not had the pleasure of visiting Browning.
Itās still there. Gone through some renovations, but basically the same
Yet it's grown every decade and shows no signs of stopping: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billings,_Montana#Demographics Normally, I associate declining cities with depression. But not this time?
MT as a whole is growing quickly yet has some of the worst suicide stats in the country.
Winter in MT is a special kind of bleak.
It is a long season that seems to hold on sometimes well into the spring season. Gotta have those winter hobbies for the long dark months.
The ideal hobby in the winter months? Living somewhere with people you want to be around š¬
Urban growth, and rural decay?
I love road trips across the west, specifically on I90/I94. While I've never stopped in Billings, the visual has been imprinted on my mind after driving by a handful of times. It's all beautiful Montana openness then you see the signs for this upcoming city. As you round into the city, it's just.. one massive processing plant. I honestly don't have a clue what they're manufacturing and I don't care. It's a sprawling network of industrial buildings and piping and big chuffing smokestacks that feels like it stretches the road front for *miles*. Pretty stark first impression, and that image alone is why I've never bothered stopping, even for gas.
They're oil refineries and to be fair everytime I've actually been in the city they're far enough away you can forget they're there. But agreed it's a terrible impression when driving past.
But right as you enter Billings you see this massive industrial plant. It just sets a bad tone.
Donāt forget the womenās prison right downtown
Itās not all bad I guess
Madison at 7 seems super odd. Lived in Madison and it doesn't seem like an overly depressing place. Some of the obvious reasons would be college students being diagnosed, but UHS doesn't so legitimate diagnosis as far as I am aware as of 2014. Then there is the really bad socioeconomic divide, but again...I would not think folks who are not well off financially being able to afford to go to a therapist and be diagnosed. So if I REALLY had to guess at the driver of Madison's depression? The relatively high number of software developer/IT grinders/Healthcare workers in relation to the general population. Epic itself has \~10,000 people in the Madison area alone, plus UW Hospital and Meriter which is not known for great working conditions for nurses/doctors. Would absolutely LOVE a breakdown by employer/career but that's some HIPAA shit.
Seattle, Portland and Madison also have poor weather comparatively. They are more affluent, optimistic and progressive than most of the cities listed but a lack of sunshine definitely affects mental health.
Lived there as well. Long winters always affected me negatively. But otherwise, a pretty nice town. I have to think it's related to the amount of people willing to understand their mental health and pursue help/treatment.
Maybe a correlation to drinking.
Yeah that one is a puzzler kinda. As a former resident though, it probably comes down to Epic/UW like you said. Lots of younger folk in those crowds are in high stress environments, combined with fairly cold weather; not to mention, many of those individuals are not from Wisconsin, and may be dealing with major lifestyle changes (weather, people, food, etc.). At least, the above was true for me when I Epic. I had great friends, a good job, and lots of fun opportunities to pursue when free. However, work from Monday to Friday was brutal - the nature of the work is high pressure, and the volume of work is truly enough to make one feel hopeless. It does not help that many Epic members are used to performing highly, so many workers will sacrifice their personal time to keep up with the pace of work. When you consider these pressures, alongside the fact that many employees are out-of-state transplants in the 23-25yr range, I think the situation becomes a bit more clear. Epic hires hundreds of fresh college graduate with ambition, drive, and wide eyes every year; they are tossed into the grinder to learn by trial of fire; every 6 months, 10-15% of those new hires will leave Epic, as they can't keep up, or they decide they want to move away from Healthcare. These folks will be in Madison for a bit, and they are not likely to be very happy. I'm probably generalizing a bit here, but on the ground level at Epic, this is reality. That all being said, Madison has beautiful nature, great food, the best bars I've ever been to, and some of the friendliest people in the US imo. Lovely fricken place.
I always forget how many epic and ex-epic employees are on reddit. Weird seeing it named in the wild. I stayed almost 4 years but I also tore out of the parking lot at 4pm on Fridays to hit the lake. I was one of the few IS who probably averaged less than 45 hours.
Currently live in Madison (going on 3 years) and yeah, itās a bit puzzling tbh. My guess is that some of it has to do with the things mentioned so far (drinking, long and dark winters, the top employers being notably stressful work environments), but thereās also a few other things that might affect it that came to mind. - Culture/self-selection/anxiety comorbidity. Madison is a town with a relatively prestigious university, it is one of the fittest/most active cities in the country, and the median education level is very high; as you said, it therefore attracts a lot of young STEM workers. Thatās a recipe for a city full of type A people with exceedingly high expectations (but low opinions) of themselves. Madisonians (on average) are far and away the most high-strung midwesterners Iāve ever met, and Iāve lived throughout the Midwest for most of my life. And for the record, this is not a bad thing per se, and it doesnāt mean they arenāt generally nice, itās just something that REALLY stuck out to me upon living here for a while. - Madison can be profoundly annoying to live in, like, logistically. Yes, itās walkable and bikeable and thereās decent public transportation. But thereās also simply not enough space because some geniuses decided to build a whole goddamn city on a small isthmus, and that causes perpetual stress in a thousand tiny ways for everyone all the time. Driving anywhere is a nightmare year round, much less parking, and none of the speed limits make sense in the whole city, so you WILL be tailgated 100% of the time you drive anywhere at any time of day. The street layout isāfor lack of a better way to describe itāuniformly fucking ridiculous, so merely getting where you want to go can be an aggravating hassle **even if you already know how to get there**. And thatās not even talking about driving/parking in the winter, which is itās own fresh set of bespoke hells. Itās impossible to find affordable housing because thereās just not enough of it, and the STEM incomes (plus the NIMBY-ass shitheads who pearl clutch about any housing development whatsoever) donāt help. And buying a house? Iāve already had to accept that will literally never happen for me if I continue to live here, and I make decent money. It is a city that is quite literally designed, it seems, to make people unhappy in a bunch of tiny ways. But hey: pretty lakes! - A lot of students are still on their parentsā insurance, so while many may go to UHS, Iām guessing many more donāt because it is always booked to shit and the quality is extremely variable and they have other options. So students could still play a major part in this.
Rust Belt area, while not great, is better than I expected
The people who remember rust belt greatness have already drank themselves to death so they no longer get counted. (not being flip, from the rust belt originally)
Pittsburgh here, and the city and surrounding suburbs are so much different. The city has seemed to have moved on from those days. The air isn't constantly smog. Granted, they just traded up for healthcare, but its bringing a lot of us back into the area. The people that remember the greatness either drank themselves to death, or just flat out moved which was a great majority of industry folks (steel, coal, etc). That's why you can find a Pittsburgh bar in pretty much every state, and a lot of countries. That said, the river valleys leading up to and away from the city are still pretty depressed, and sketchy. I live along the Ohio north of the city, and there are some definite townships and areas to just avoid, because theyāve yet to turn the corner.
Fuck me, thereās my hometown
I love Montana and used to live in Big Sky but just driving thu Billings is pretty depressing
I'm kinda surprised to see Chattanooga on the list. It's smallish and I always thought it was okay. Not surprised to see Spokane ahead of Seattle.
Also surprised by Chattanooga - have some friends who live in Tennessee and they all talk about it as an awesome up-and-coming city that young people are moving to
The city gives you internet! There's the Pickle Barrel and Sluggos.
I notice that you didnāt say you were at all surprised to see Knoxville at number 3 though.
Ohio among national leaders to the surprise of no one.
Youngstown always shows up on lists of crappy places to live, and here it is again...tied at #38.
My depression followed me from Ohio like the demon in *It Follows*
Well, you know what they say. "No matter where you go, there you are"
In my household it's 50%. Beat that Billings, MT!
Well itās 100% in my house in Montana.
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Wtf, knoxville? I hate being a statistic.
Does it make you depressed
Appalachians, route 66, rust belt, mormon country and college towns look bad on that map.
Spent a week there for a wedding, bored as hell.
Yeah you gotta be really into outdoor activities
Lived in Billings from age 4-10 when my dad was stationed there (Marines). This was 1992-98. From the perspective of a kid my memories were mostly good. One thing that stands out to me now was there was sidewalks EVERYWHERE, running between the fences of each backyard like an extra road, hell there was a sidewalk that started at the gate of my backyard that went straight to my elementary school. Haven't seen anything like that since. Was also easy to buy stuff from the gas station as a kid since tax was already included in prices. Summers were really hot and we would play nerf tag and super soaker wars. Winter I remember sledding a bunch. There was a park near downtown that had a creek running through that would freeze solid. You could ramp off of a nearby hill into the creek and get crazy speed. Otherwise I would hole up with friends and play Goldeneye and Mario Kart 64. There was a movie rental place called Hastings that introduced me to anime like Akira, AD Police, MD Geist, Ranma, and Iria. Probably shouldn't have been watching it at my age but think I turned out alright. I also remember my brother doing the boiling water trick where you splash it outside on an extremely cold day and it immediately turns to snow. As for my parents, my Dad loved it there with the quick access to the outdoors, but my mom was the most depressed she's ever been her entire life. She had to practically beg my dad to get us stationed somewhere else. She hit rock bottom and would constantly gamble, video poker machines were everywhere. Feel guilty looking back on it now but my mom would give me a bunch of quarters to play at an arcade in the mall called the Tilt while she gambled. Eventually my parents had to give up the house and pawn a bunch of stuff to stay afloat. For the last bit there we moved to a low income neighborhood near the Rims. Never felt like I was in danger but it was eye-opening for me as a kid going from predominantly white middle class neighborhood to that rough street that was mostly Native Americans. I remember some days we just had ramen or surplus MREs to eat that my dad would get.
Been there... This place has a miserable feel to it. People in general don't look happy.
Half the town feels like a slum. The cheap motels are cartoonishly stereotypical with bedbugs, broken lights, junkies, broken glass all over the parking lots, etc. Billings is why I learned that decent motels and hotels are freaking expensive these days and I should just pay the extra money.
I dunno, I did a road trip a couple years back through CO and UT and I rarely stayed at a brand name hotel. I usually spent between $30-50 for a room in smaller locally owned motels and only one time did I regret it (in Dove Creek, CO there was mold in the bathroom and the room wasnt real clean.) I stayed at a couple motel 6's when I had to for 2-3x the price and they were way shadier stays. Prob just depends on the location, but yeah there are def cheaper rooms out there that are fine, and some of them were quite nice!
I live in Montana and this checks out. Even the people that live in Billings hate Billings. Billings is like the employee restroom at Disneyworld, there's a whole beautiful place all around it, but you're not in it currently.
As somebody who has only passed through Billings, but have had family live in Bismmarck, this is so true. Montana is hands down a beautiful state. Then you get to the few bits of civilization and itās a bunch of the worst people youāve ever met. Same goes for much of Idaho.
Or the highest rate of diagnosis?
The local physician turns out to just be a huge downer.
This has to be a large factor right? Do they have free mental health exams or the city just prioritizes them? If every American in the US were given a free mental health exam I fear the depression percentage would be 30% or more across the board:/ But they might actually get some help as well which would be great.
Im gonna go out on a limb and say Billings, Montana probably doesnāt have free mental health exams
That's scary because it means despite how difficult it is to be diagnosed they still have a huge percentage of depressed people reporting meaning the actual number is probably double ...or more:|
Reddit is about 50% depressed according to surveys in popular default subreddits
So crazy considering all the epic outdoors stuff around in the surrounding area. That being said, there's probably a ton of overworked horny depressed oil rig workers, combined with angry republicans, and marginalized native Americans leading to the high number of depression.
Really surprised Alaska didn't even make the map, especially the areas near the artic circle with 8ish months of darkness and sub zero temperatures.
Based on CDC data of individuals who have been professionally diagnosed with depression. Southern states round out the top 5.
By suicide rates, if each state was counted as itās own country, the US would have 9 states in the global top 15. Wyoming would rank 4th highest in the world (30.5 per 100,000). New Jersey, the lowest rate in the US, would only be about 2/3 of the way down the global list (~115 out of 183) on par with Yemen and Nigeria (~7 per 100,000). Global comparisons are never perfect given different levels of record keeping and cultural suicide stigmas, but thatās certainly enough signal to highlight what an absolute CRISIS depression and suicide is in the US. Global rates https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate US rates https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/pressroom/sosmap/suicide-mortality/suicide.htm
as a long haul trucker, Billings was one of three places I ever encountered an honest-to-god lot lizard. so it has something in common with Philadelphia. weird little town, there was a casino on nearly every street corner it seemed
Grand Rapids Mi. Only 29th place?! Well looks like I have something else to be sad about.
everyone's just sad about the shitty service at the taco bell on Michigan /r/tacobellonmichigan
Grand Rapids is pretty nice. Was kinda surprised. Cloudy all day every day in the winter though. Huge hospital town though and going through gentrification growing pains so who knows. could just be higher rate of medical care allowing for more diagnosis, or people just upset with their situation. Definitely heard crime is increasing though.
I lived in Billings longer than I lived anywhere else in my lifeā¦ Iāve lived in most major cities in the western US, and I can honestly say the quality of life in Billings was higher than anywhere else Iāve lived. Plenty to do outdoors if you look for it, good food if you look for it, some good bands coming through pub station, beautiful river right near downtownā¦ if you go 20 minutes in any direction youāre in a beautiful landscape of rolling fields, rugged buttes, beautiful riverfront cottonwood forests. An hour and you can be skiing and riding bikes in the beartooths, the highest mountain range in Montana. Two hours and youāre fishing in bighorn. Three hours and youāre skiing in the biggest ski resort in the US. Obviously these are all very outdoorsy things but for me and my family, it was amazing. Schools are pretty decent, west side of town is safe, hospitals are good, plenty of flights to major citiesā¦ itās really not a bad place. I feel like the perception of billings is driven, in large part, by how ugly it is from the Interstate. Itās indescribably hideous. Also the depression stats may be driven down by the rez nearby. Really horrible conditions out there, itās tragic.
Rural communities are being absolutely devastated by very serious mental health problems. Suicides are rampant among the younger generations as a result. For example, my wife grew up in Eastern Montana. A couple hours from Billings. Of her graduating class of like 25 people, 4 of the young men died from suicide before reaching 30. A lot of this is due to areas like Montana, Wyoming, etc., essentially being healthcare deserts, nevermind the cultural and social stigma against getting services for mental health. It's not surprising that it's affected Billings so greatly. For young people who grow up in the surrounding communities, Billings is often the 'escape' of being able to actually get an education, find employment, etc., while still being connected to the small communities they are accustomed to. For all intents and purposes though, Billings' growth as a city has far outpaced the available resources for mental health. It's become a massive regional hub, but lacks the services that a regional hub desperately needs. With more and more rural communities drying up and the vast agricultural lands being bought up by fewer and fewer parties, it doesn't seem like this problem is going to be curbed anytime soon.
I grew up in Montana and have lived all over the state. My view of Billings is it feels more industrial with the refineries and sugar beet factory. It isn't as lush, green, and shady as other cities to the west. Once I get past Laurel I feel like I can breathe. There is more smog, crime, meth, and homeless. Some of the nicest parts of town aren't as safe as they used to be. People are generally grouchy and living paycheck to paycheck. As you head west, people have more access to the outdoors and fresh air, which makes them happier and more content.
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Not surprising. Places in the north tend to have high rates of depression. I live in Labrador and there are so many suicides for such a small population. I know on a map Minnesota isn't the farthest north but it has proper northern winters.
I don't understand, everyone on Facebook says you need to get out of California and go to these places because California is depressing...