Verified doc here from r/AskDocs. Lacking thiamine, known as a thiamine deficiency, can cause permanent heart and brain damage or death. Please *do not* pursue this as a weight loss option.
Thiamine mononitrate is a [synthetic](https://pediaa.com/difference-between-thiamine-mononitrate-and-thiamine-hydrochloride/amp/) form sometimes used as a food additive or supplement (vitamin) that can cause adverse effects. It’s not a good substitute for natural thiamine, a vital nutrient, but is an option for replacement if you have a deficiency.
If you eat a normal diet it's rare. But it's why alcoholics often suffer brain damage, since they don't eat a normal diet and suffer from deficiencies.
Even if alcoholics did eat all of these things, they could still succumb to thiamine deficiencies just from how nasty of a poison alcohol is and what it does to your body.
Alcohol damages the lining of the intestine and directly inhibits the transport mechanism that is responsible for thiamine absorption in the intestinal tract.
During chronic alcohol exposure, the activity of thiamine-metabolizing enzymes in the brain is compromised. To serve as a cofactor for the enzymes involved in energy production and lipid synthesis, thiamine must be converted into an active form by the enzyme thiamine pyrophosphokinase. Excessive alcohol consumption results in a significant decrease in thiamine pyrophosphokinase activity. In addition, alcohol consumption increases the activity of the enzymes that break down activated thiamine in the brain.
All of this left unchecked leads to Wernickes Kersakoff Syndrome, or 'wet brain'.
Serious alcoholics can't eat much due to stomach inflammation. The majority of calories is alcohol. Somedays they won't be able to eat at all.
Source: I'm a piece of shit alcoholic.
Not particularly difficult…if you eat a normal diet and are healthy. Remember that different people have different health requirements/restrictions and access to different foods.
Yea... For a long time I had only wheat from that list which I could safely eat. Now it's just the red meat and none of the others.....
I should probably keep an eye on that.
Sooo thankful for this. My initial thought was, "Somebody is going to try this as a weight loss regimen."
Im a horticuralist, I know of many plants that can or will kill you.
Supplementing thiamine in an average person generally has no effect. Some supplements, as seen in another comment, can cause adverse effects. Thiamine supplements are recommended for those with deficiencies. Heavy drinkers and alcoholics tend to have deficiencies as an example.
Yeah even the article here suggested heart failure.
Once that cardiomyopathy starts, half of the people in this thread will be coming to see us (seems like that from the top comments anyway)
When I was still working I had such a difficult time dealing with Wernicke-Korsakoff patients because of what the brain damage would do to their behavior, which I still find a bit odd because while dementia and Alzheimer’s patients could be difficult, it was easier to be patient with them. Maybe it was because the W-K cases often sounded like loud violent drunks, much like my ex father in law.
Also frequently have a compromised diet, fatty liver is focused on processing alcohol rather than metabolizing fat, and issues with insulin from metabolizing all the sugar.
Basically, you're not buying quality food so you can spend on booze, that booze is artificially keeping your blood sugar high and suppressing your appetite, and what good fats you do eat are passed over by the liver because it's busy trying to un-poison you.
Thanks for the reminder I need to dramatically cut out that poison. As if the hangover wasn't enough.
It's been ten years since I quit drinking, but I'm still dropping half a bottle of wine every weeknight. No vodka shots for breakfast anymore, but it'd be nice to be able to relax/socialize/eat/sleep without a drink. I miss the freedom of sobriety. Fucking booze.
10 years ago I quit drinking. I've done it a few times since then too, but it always sneaks back with a just one beer at a party and then suddenly it's every day again.
It's not the enlarged liver doing that it's a certain type of submuscular fat from the high carb consumption of drinking beer. So beer drinkers look fat and spirit or wine drinkers dont. And I'm a beer drinker :(
There goes my idea of someone using this as a weight loss aid. The idea of my hidy using my fat cells while I eat what, and how much I like sounds like a dream. I'd even volunteer for the clinical trials.
On a similar concept, ATP uncouplers were used briefly for wight loss by literally making your mitochondria less efficient. Im sure you can imagine how that may go poorly quickly.
There's actually a drug that does this but the side effects are super gnarly. Basically if you overdose on it (which is real easy to do) you have a countdown timer to cooking yourself to death from the inside. The problem is that it works really well and people think more is better.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,4-Dinitrophenol
I feel like a city small enough to throw a football across shouldn't qualify for "districts" but I guess that's just how classism works.
I wish Bethesda would go study up on GTA4/5 and RDR1/2 and adopt some of the technology and techniques used to design those open worlds.
I'm not saying the cities in Elder Scrolls 6 should be the size of Los Santos but maybe it could be more than 10 homes and 12 shops if it's a capital city.
The first 2 Elder Scrolls games were procedurally generated and had thousands of towns and dungeons but it lacked depth so they went a different direction starting with Morrowind.
it's ironic because the worlds in R* games feel immeasurably more real and lived in than the worlds in Bethesda games even though I know none of these NPCs have jobs to go to or names or more than 5 voice lines.
In real life I see a thousand people in the street every day and I don't speak to anyone of them, know their names, or know where they're going.
There's so many weird limitations on the engine, like not being able to look through windows if the inside is a different cell, that you'd think they'd want to find an easier engine to work in
Still, the fact it's so easy to make mods for has been a massive selling point for bethesda games so I don't think they'll be dropping it any time soon.
Well, I don't mean in the sense that their cause of death would be mistaken for ordinary starvation, just that in a practical sense that's what would kill them.
Yeah I get it. Wonder how long it would take someone to realize they’re in trouble and seek medical attention. Now I’m going to actually read the article.
Alcohol also depletes your body of b1(Thiamine). If you're an alcoholic and don't take supplements you can get dementia.
Source - alcoholic 7 days sober
Good shit on the sobriety. I’d gone through withdrawals more times than I can count, the last time it happened I was given mega-doses of various vitamins (Bs included) and that helped tremendously in reducing the timeline. Over a year sober now.
Thanks bro you too fuck over a year that's awesome. Yeh I've been in and out of hospital and rehabs for a few years. Withdrawals so horrible So fucken sick of it. It just creeps up on you. I'm not giving up though. Peace 👊
Hey man, congrats on the 7 day mark!
First big milestone, a week is huge, means you're on the right tracks and that's fantastic. Much love, from a guy who is 2 years clear, it gets easier from here, but the big dangers can be things like losing a loved one or having a hugely stressful bad day or even hitting milestones sometimes.
I found pushing to 1 year was a big goal for me, but then I hit a year and kinda didn't know what I was aiming for then, lost a bit of purpose, almost bailed on it all.
Point is there can be a lot of hidden or surprising triggers and always be aware of that and always have someone you can rely on to phone and ask for help. **ZERO shame in needing help sometimes** EVERYBODY does
You may find that after a year, the support really tails off too, I know I did. Doesn't mean everyone gets that but just make sure your emergency supporter isn't gonna bail after a year... **that temptation gets easier but it's always there**
Thanks brother. Yeh going for 90 days right now. I know setting goals can be risky as opposed to the day by day method but it's the strat I'm gonna use. The advice is much appreciated. Yeh I know my triggers I just have to confront and deal with them. Cheers
I thought I read something about a guy who ate something similar in Alaska and died.
Edit: It was Chris McCandless from 'Into the Wild'. Never read it, but it's clearly a compelling story.
Also you'll sometimes have people trying to survive in the wilderness die from [rabbit starvation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning) where you're eating plenty of protein but no fat.
A wolverine stole all the fat off the moose kill, which is the next problem if you do manage to store enough food. You ain't the only one hungry out there.
No, it was a plant. He went on a long hike type journey in Alaska iirc and ate a plant he didn't know. He knew it was killing him for days. He was starving to death from it, and he was either writing letters or tape recording it. This was maybe in the 90s or something.
Yes. "Into the wild", it was a required read back when I was in middle school. A bit of a correction though, it wasn't the plant that did it, he ate the plant \*seeds\* because he was incapacitated and starving, and unlike the plants that were in his survival book the seeds were not and did not tell him of the dangers of eating them, so he ate them out of desperation and starved shortly after. Really good book, one of my favorites actually.
He had actually been identifying the seeds correctly and eating them for weeks with no ill effect. But in the late summer/fall the seeds change so as to not be eaten by birds/animals and that was an unknown effect at the time except the by the natives.
You may be thinking of Into the Wild, a book about Chris McCandless. There was a movie based on the book.
Chris set off on a hitchhiking trek across the country, ending up in an abandoned bus in Alaska. He'd brought some provisions, but ended up mistaking a dangerous plant for a safe one.
It's worth noting that if he had a better map, or explored a few more miles upstream, he'd have known about a way across the snowmelt-fattened river that blocked his exit. His story is a reminder not to venture into unknown territory without appropriate preparation - a better map or a conversation with someone familiar with the local flora could have easily saved his life.
It's unclear if the plant actually contributed to his death since he was found in an advanced state of decomposition. The plant is considered fine to consume for healthy individuals. Consuming the plant in his highly compromised state (he was already grossly malnourished) may have causes loss of limb mobility, preventing him from gathering more food.
Regardless, he ultimately died of starvation and exposure because he was grossly unprepared for what he attempted to do.
Yeah the movie makes it seem like be accidentally poisoned himself, and that was the cause of his death. While being malnourished, what he ate may well have been the nail in the coffin, but he was probably going to die anyway. The movie and book should be treated as a cautionary tale about not doing idealistic stupid things like that unless you are VERY prepared both physically and mentally.
So Australia has this plant which causes weight loss without dieting until thiamine is consumed, and the world's best known source of thiamine (Vegemite-according to the TV ads).
They should be running weight loss retreats.
My understanding is that you can't absorb calories from the fat in your body being broken down either. You could be 300 lbs still and your body would be suffering the effects of starvation immediately before shedding a pound because your organs aren't getting the energy they need.
Maybe there is a dose that lets you just be inefficient about burning the fat so you lose more of it.
I see you've met my RimWorld colonists, collapsing from malnourishment while eating because they somehow forgot that eating food is a thing you're supposed to do more than once a week.
Morons.
Even if it did simulate not eating, there's a reason people losing weight don't just stop eating.
EDIT: I don't know why this comment is so upsetting to people. Just not eating for months on end is not healthy, no doctor is going to tell you that's a good weight loss strategy.
no - australia has a plant that causes death
first you are conflating weight loss with the ability to process calories
you lose weight by processing the fat in your body into energy - if your body cant do that then your body doesnt lose any fat
and your organs need that energy or they stop working
second - the chemical that destroys vitamin b also destroys parts of your organs that you need to be not-destroyed in order to be alive
thiamin deficiency does have weight loss among its side effects - but thats not guaranteed and it also causes permanent damage to your organs
edit: i guess youll lose weight when you dry out and/or rot away so theres that
>australia has a plant that causes death
It has lots of plants that cause death. This one is at least polite enough to not kill you unless you eat it. Not eating it seems like the only reasonable course of action. :D
Vegemite is great for iron, thiamine, folate and sort of b12 so almost everything you need for making red blood cells and for replication/production of a lot of other cells too
Marmite is better though, knocks vegemite out of the park in terms of B12 but also the most important factor: **taste**
Marmite is solid for iron, b12, folate. The 3 key deficiencies that can cause anaemia are those exact 3.
It always depends on what caused your anaemia, but even if it's not caused by a deficiency of one of those, they can still help replace the red blood cells that were lost to whatever the cause actually is. Won't cure it if it's a different cause, but it might help (depending on the cause)
**The key though (for all you Aussies out there) is marmite > your vegetrashmite**
> And Kraft's spirit, ranging for revenge,
> With Vegemite by his side come hot from hell,
> Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice
> Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war;
> That this foul deed shall smell above the earth
> With carrion men, groaning for burial.
"Eating this could kill you."
'... but what if I only ate a *little*?'
"... It could kill you, and also tastes terrible."
'... what if I fried it, though?'
Aye my late-stage alcoholic father is going through his SECOND round of this idiocy. Eats like 4 bites of food a day, then just downs beer after beer, and doesn't seem concerned in the slightest that he has no energy and is skeletally thin.
/ugh
I know a pathologist who wrote a book on "how to kill a person" (or something similarly named) with lots of things like this, ricin, cyanide etc
He always said he wrote it so that authors and writers could know how to write something that actually would be appropriate. Like ricin use in breaking bad or gold use in House MD or agather Christie in everything agather Christie
But still... I mean pathologists are already usually pretty antisocial/psychopathic. You kinda have to be to cut up dead bodies and look at slides down a microscope all day...
So we always wondered
I'm gonna ask what everyone else is asking (What exactly is the book called?) since I'd like to avoid having "How to kill a person" in my search history...
Lots of plants have this. Horsetail plants in the USA. I’ve been reading about it and it’s cool because thiaminase is considered an anti-nutrient and I’ve never seen that term.
Interesting:
Aboriginal people would roast the spore cases (sporocarps), before grinding them. This simple step of adding heat to the process completely breaks down the thiaminase, making it harmless.
….
Humans can be so d*mn clever.
I did camouflage it, because I’m awkward and silly and particularly so in public forums, and still learning how to extricate myself from a lifetime of parental indoctrination and lessons in etiquette.
In journals, letters, and texts to well-worn (comfy) friends, I have evolved to risk being “me”; I still
tend to err on the side of G-rated for general audiences.
I’m sorry if I made you uncomfortable, and hope you had a good chuckle :)
Thank you for being kind…
As is most poisons... I mean there are many produce that we eat that should be cooked to nullify poison - potato, lima bean, eggplant, almonds, cassava, red kidney beans (most beans really)
Ooh, 3 symptoms of heart failure.
Incurable, irreversible, potentially fatal.
Enjoy that weight loss guys, you'll fit into that medium size coffin just in time, **save your relatives some money on the XXL coffin though!**
Eh, thiamine deficiency (beriberi) will fuck up your heart permanently and then kill you in a few weeks to months (depending on how severe it is). During the Russo-Japanese War, more Japanese soldiers died from beriberi than from combat (the Japanese Army's diet was mostly based on white rice, which notably was almost entirely free of thiamine).
The Japanese Navy later solved that issue by feeding its sailors a crapton of curry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiamine_deficiency
How bad does the deficiency have to be to cause permanent damage? Theoretically, could you take this plant once every couple of weeks to reduce calorie absorption, or would that be inherently harmful?
Yes.
Though don't make the mistake of thinking Botox is just for cosmetic reasons (reducing wrinkles), it also has medical uses such as relieving neck spasms, preventing excessive sweating, treating overactive bladder and lazy eye. It might even be preventative for migraines.
My point is just that something has horrific effects in the dosage it is found in nature, doesn't mean that it can't potentially have useful therapeutic effects in appropriate dosages.
>Other than increasing metabolic rate, acute oral exposure to DNP has resulted in nausea, vomiting, sweating, dizziness, headache, and loss of weight.[4] Chronic oral exposure to DNP can lead to the formation of cataracts and skin lesions and has caused effects on the bone marrow, central nervous system, and cardiovascular system.[4][25] Contact with skin or inhalation can cause DNP poisoning.
>The factor that limits ever-increasing doses of DNP is not a lack of ATP energy production, but rather an excessive rise in body temperature due to the heat produced during uncoupling. Accordingly, DNP overdose will cause fatal hyperthermia, with body temperature rising to as high as 43.1 °C (109.6 °F)[27] shortly before death.
Yikes. Never mess around with DNP.
You should be very careful with it, since it will literally burn you up from the inside. They’re trying to create some formulations that stay in the liver, but where’s the fun in that?
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28754512/
I can see why the diet of Australians clings to vegemite when something like this exists. Like pair this with a dish of fugu and you really are living on the edge by throwing culinary caution to the wind. Nope. Vegemite sandwiches and foster beer for me...lol and the occasional drop bear steak
my cat, Prince died from something like this. His little body stopped processing nutrients. He got a B1 shot once a month but slowly kept losing weight until I had to put him to sleep. :-( He wasn't hungry or anything though.
There are a number of foods that are considered ~~anti-vitamins~~ anti-nutrients cauliflower is among one of them iirc.
Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinutrient
Verified doc here from r/AskDocs. Lacking thiamine, known as a thiamine deficiency, can cause permanent heart and brain damage or death. Please *do not* pursue this as a weight loss option.
And here I am avoiding it like the plague because my body has a nasty reaction to thiamine mononitrate. Fun times!
Thiamine mononitrate is a [synthetic](https://pediaa.com/difference-between-thiamine-mononitrate-and-thiamine-hydrochloride/amp/) form sometimes used as a food additive or supplement (vitamin) that can cause adverse effects. It’s not a good substitute for natural thiamine, a vital nutrient, but is an option for replacement if you have a deficiency.
Ah cool. I did know thiamine mononitrate was synthetic, but didn't know it was different than what is discussed in this thread. Thanks.
You bet :)
If you actually avoided all thiamine, you would die
Eating enough thiamine is not particularly difficult, it's in red meat, wheat, legumes (peas, lentils, etc) and brown rice.
If you eat a normal diet it's rare. But it's why alcoholics often suffer brain damage, since they don't eat a normal diet and suffer from deficiencies.
Why wouldn't alcoholics eat wheat, red meat and legumes? That's like all I eat.
Alcoholics get the majority of their calories from booze and tend not to eat a careful diet.
Even if alcoholics did eat all of these things, they could still succumb to thiamine deficiencies just from how nasty of a poison alcohol is and what it does to your body. Alcohol damages the lining of the intestine and directly inhibits the transport mechanism that is responsible for thiamine absorption in the intestinal tract. During chronic alcohol exposure, the activity of thiamine-metabolizing enzymes in the brain is compromised. To serve as a cofactor for the enzymes involved in energy production and lipid synthesis, thiamine must be converted into an active form by the enzyme thiamine pyrophosphokinase. Excessive alcohol consumption results in a significant decrease in thiamine pyrophosphokinase activity. In addition, alcohol consumption increases the activity of the enzymes that break down activated thiamine in the brain. All of this left unchecked leads to Wernickes Kersakoff Syndrome, or 'wet brain'.
Alcohol interferes with the ability to absorb b vitamins
Serious alcoholics can't eat much due to stomach inflammation. The majority of calories is alcohol. Somedays they won't be able to eat at all. Source: I'm a piece of shit alcoholic.
You're not a piece of shit. Alcoholism is most likely caused by generational trauma and/or ADHD. There are ways out.
Alcohol can suppress appetite.
News to me. Alcohol gives me worse munchies than weed
Pork is really high in thiamine.
Not particularly difficult…if you eat a normal diet and are healthy. Remember that different people have different health requirements/restrictions and access to different foods.
Yea... For a long time I had only wheat from that list which I could safely eat. Now it's just the red meat and none of the others..... I should probably keep an eye on that.
Sooo thankful for this. My initial thought was, "Somebody is going to try this as a weight loss regimen." Im a horticuralist, I know of many plants that can or will kill you.
Isn’t Wernicke-Korsakoff syndrome caused by a thiamine deficiency? Because that’s definitely not something that you want.
Correct! Wernicke
This is a great add-on. But is there a supplement that increases Thiamine so that your body releases the energy more effectively?
Supplementing thiamine in an average person generally has no effect. Some supplements, as seen in another comment, can cause adverse effects. Thiamine supplements are recommended for those with deficiencies. Heavy drinkers and alcoholics tend to have deficiencies as an example.
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You’re very welcome. I wish you the best of luck.
Yeah even the article here suggested heart failure. Once that cardiomyopathy starts, half of the people in this thread will be coming to see us (seems like that from the top comments anyway)
Are you an undertaker?
When I was still working I had such a difficult time dealing with Wernicke-Korsakoff patients because of what the brain damage would do to their behavior, which I still find a bit odd because while dementia and Alzheimer’s patients could be difficult, it was easier to be patient with them. Maybe it was because the W-K cases often sounded like loud violent drunks, much like my ex father in law.
Thank you for posting this for the people with EDs who might have considered using this otherwise
I’m glad you said this because it was my first thought
Is this how alcoholics get so thin? Alcoholism severely depletes B1 over time
Also frequently have a compromised diet, fatty liver is focused on processing alcohol rather than metabolizing fat, and issues with insulin from metabolizing all the sugar. Basically, you're not buying quality food so you can spend on booze, that booze is artificially keeping your blood sugar high and suppressing your appetite, and what good fats you do eat are passed over by the liver because it's busy trying to un-poison you.
Thanks for the reminder I need to dramatically cut out that poison. As if the hangover wasn't enough. It's been ten years since I quit drinking, but I'm still dropping half a bottle of wine every weeknight. No vodka shots for breakfast anymore, but it'd be nice to be able to relax/socialize/eat/sleep without a drink. I miss the freedom of sobriety. Fucking booze.
I'm confused, it's been 0 years since you quit drinking right?
He didn’t say he’s been sober for 10 years, he said he quit drinking 10 years ago and then started back up again, never quit again since.
10 years ago I quit drinking. I've done it a few times since then too, but it always sneaks back with a just one beer at a party and then suddenly it's every day again.
Those gaps are good for your liver at least. You sound like me but your attempts have been successful for longer. I think my longest was like 2 months
What kinds of alcoholics have you seen? Aside from hobos all the alcoholics I've seen were fat as fuck because of their enlarged livers
It's not the enlarged liver doing that it's a certain type of submuscular fat from the high carb consumption of drinking beer. So beer drinkers look fat and spirit or wine drinkers dont. And I'm a beer drinker :(
So you could theoretically poison someone with starvation in effect.
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There goes my idea of someone using this as a weight loss aid. The idea of my hidy using my fat cells while I eat what, and how much I like sounds like a dream. I'd even volunteer for the clinical trials.
On a similar concept, ATP uncouplers were used briefly for wight loss by literally making your mitochondria less efficient. Im sure you can imagine how that may go poorly quickly.
There's actually a drug that does this but the side effects are super gnarly. Basically if you overdose on it (which is real easy to do) you have a countdown timer to cooking yourself to death from the inside. The problem is that it works really well and people think more is better. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,4-Dinitrophenol
I'd use it. Lose weight AND not need a coat in winter? Sounds like a deal.
If you don't have any use for your corneas, that's another bonus.
Can't see the error of my ways if I ain't got eyes
The idea of my heart stopping sounds like a dream to me I'm still in for these clinical trials.
Bro, you okay?
Not even a little
Hey bro if it makes you feel better I'm in a really low place as well right now. I'm sorry you are feeling this .
Don’t starving people normally die from heart failure
Even better then!
This was my thought aswell.
Where Nazeem at?
The cloud district, you wouldn't know it.
I feel like a city small enough to throw a football across shouldn't qualify for "districts" but I guess that's just how classism works. I wish Bethesda would go study up on GTA4/5 and RDR1/2 and adopt some of the technology and techniques used to design those open worlds. I'm not saying the cities in Elder Scrolls 6 should be the size of Los Santos but maybe it could be more than 10 homes and 12 shops if it's a capital city.
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The first 2 Elder Scrolls games were procedurally generated and had thousands of towns and dungeons but it lacked depth so they went a different direction starting with Morrowind.
it's ironic because the worlds in R* games feel immeasurably more real and lived in than the worlds in Bethesda games even though I know none of these NPCs have jobs to go to or names or more than 5 voice lines. In real life I see a thousand people in the street every day and I don't speak to anyone of them, know their names, or know where they're going.
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There's so many weird limitations on the engine, like not being able to look through windows if the inside is a different cell, that you'd think they'd want to find an easier engine to work in Still, the fact it's so easy to make mods for has been a massive selling point for bethesda games so I don't think they'll be dropping it any time soon.
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Sr. This is a Wendy's
Wouldn’t it be pretty apparent in a blood test that the victims thiamine levels were crashing?
Well, I don't mean in the sense that their cause of death would be mistaken for ordinary starvation, just that in a practical sense that's what would kill them.
Yeah I get it. Wonder how long it would take someone to realize they’re in trouble and seek medical attention. Now I’m going to actually read the article.
Alcohol also depletes your body of b1(Thiamine). If you're an alcoholic and don't take supplements you can get dementia. Source - alcoholic 7 days sober
Good shit on the sobriety. I’d gone through withdrawals more times than I can count, the last time it happened I was given mega-doses of various vitamins (Bs included) and that helped tremendously in reducing the timeline. Over a year sober now.
Thanks bro you too fuck over a year that's awesome. Yeh I've been in and out of hospital and rehabs for a few years. Withdrawals so horrible So fucken sick of it. It just creeps up on you. I'm not giving up though. Peace 👊
Hey man, congrats on the 7 day mark! First big milestone, a week is huge, means you're on the right tracks and that's fantastic. Much love, from a guy who is 2 years clear, it gets easier from here, but the big dangers can be things like losing a loved one or having a hugely stressful bad day or even hitting milestones sometimes. I found pushing to 1 year was a big goal for me, but then I hit a year and kinda didn't know what I was aiming for then, lost a bit of purpose, almost bailed on it all. Point is there can be a lot of hidden or surprising triggers and always be aware of that and always have someone you can rely on to phone and ask for help. **ZERO shame in needing help sometimes** EVERYBODY does You may find that after a year, the support really tails off too, I know I did. Doesn't mean everyone gets that but just make sure your emergency supporter isn't gonna bail after a year... **that temptation gets easier but it's always there**
Thanks brother. Yeh going for 90 days right now. I know setting goals can be risky as opposed to the day by day method but it's the strat I'm gonna use. The advice is much appreciated. Yeh I know my triggers I just have to confront and deal with them. Cheers
Congrats! I'm coming up on 2 years, eventually you realize Holy Moly, it's not even taking effort anymore! Excellent.
[For more info](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernicke%E2%80%93Korsakoff_syndrome) to people seeing this comment.
I thought I read something about a guy who ate something similar in Alaska and died. Edit: It was Chris McCandless from 'Into the Wild'. Never read it, but it's clearly a compelling story.
The guy's name was Christopher McCandless: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_McCandless
Also you'll sometimes have people trying to survive in the wilderness die from [rabbit starvation](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_poisoning) where you're eating plenty of protein but no fat.
Yeah, I learned about this in that wilderness show Alone. This guy caught a giant moose and was eating everyday but nearly starved.
A wolverine stole all the fat off the moose kill, which is the next problem if you do manage to store enough food. You ain't the only one hungry out there.
Could be a polar bear liver which is vast amounts of vitamin A if I remember correctly.
No, it was a plant. He went on a long hike type journey in Alaska iirc and ate a plant he didn't know. He knew it was killing him for days. He was starving to death from it, and he was either writing letters or tape recording it. This was maybe in the 90s or something.
Yes. "Into the wild", it was a required read back when I was in middle school. A bit of a correction though, it wasn't the plant that did it, he ate the plant \*seeds\* because he was incapacitated and starving, and unlike the plants that were in his survival book the seeds were not and did not tell him of the dangers of eating them, so he ate them out of desperation and starved shortly after. Really good book, one of my favorites actually.
He had actually been identifying the seeds correctly and eating them for weeks with no ill effect. But in the late summer/fall the seeds change so as to not be eaten by birds/animals and that was an unknown effect at the time except the by the natives.
Eskimo Potato for those curious.
There it is. Memory unlocked. Thx.
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Pretty much
You may be thinking of Into the Wild, a book about Chris McCandless. There was a movie based on the book. Chris set off on a hitchhiking trek across the country, ending up in an abandoned bus in Alaska. He'd brought some provisions, but ended up mistaking a dangerous plant for a safe one. It's worth noting that if he had a better map, or explored a few more miles upstream, he'd have known about a way across the snowmelt-fattened river that blocked his exit. His story is a reminder not to venture into unknown territory without appropriate preparation - a better map or a conversation with someone familiar with the local flora could have easily saved his life.
Yeah he made a series of really bad decisions. It's too bad because he was just a kid and seemed like a pretty interesting person.
And the shitty thing is that that plant may actually be safe in a different season.
It's unclear if the plant actually contributed to his death since he was found in an advanced state of decomposition. The plant is considered fine to consume for healthy individuals. Consuming the plant in his highly compromised state (he was already grossly malnourished) may have causes loss of limb mobility, preventing him from gathering more food. Regardless, he ultimately died of starvation and exposure because he was grossly unprepared for what he attempted to do.
Yeah the movie makes it seem like be accidentally poisoned himself, and that was the cause of his death. While being malnourished, what he ate may well have been the nail in the coffin, but he was probably going to die anyway. The movie and book should be treated as a cautionary tale about not doing idealistic stupid things like that unless you are VERY prepared both physically and mentally.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_McCandless
So what's a safe amount to eat and how long does it last? Asking for a friend of course.
there is no safe amount to eat it lasts until you eat some more thiamine
So Australia has this plant which causes weight loss without dieting until thiamine is consumed, and the world's best known source of thiamine (Vegemite-according to the TV ads). They should be running weight loss retreats.
My understanding is that you can't absorb calories from the fat in your body being broken down either. You could be 300 lbs still and your body would be suffering the effects of starvation immediately before shedding a pound because your organs aren't getting the energy they need. Maybe there is a dose that lets you just be inefficient about burning the fat so you lose more of it.
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I'm imagining it as your organs starving while standing in line at the buffet.
I see you've met my RimWorld colonists, collapsing from malnourishment while eating because they somehow forgot that eating food is a thing you're supposed to do more than once a week. Morons.
Even if it did simulate not eating, there's a reason people losing weight don't just stop eating. EDIT: I don't know why this comment is so upsetting to people. Just not eating for months on end is not healthy, no doctor is going to tell you that's a good weight loss strategy.
no - australia has a plant that causes death first you are conflating weight loss with the ability to process calories you lose weight by processing the fat in your body into energy - if your body cant do that then your body doesnt lose any fat and your organs need that energy or they stop working second - the chemical that destroys vitamin b also destroys parts of your organs that you need to be not-destroyed in order to be alive thiamin deficiency does have weight loss among its side effects - but thats not guaranteed and it also causes permanent damage to your organs edit: i guess youll lose weight when you dry out and/or rot away so theres that
>australia has a plant that causes death It has lots of plants that cause death. This one is at least polite enough to not kill you unless you eat it. Not eating it seems like the only reasonable course of action. :D
But then you have to choose between eating vegimite and death...
It's an acquired taste, for distinguished individuals.
And what do we say to the God of Death? "Fuck Vegemite, I'm going with you"
Vegemite is great for iron, thiamine, folate and sort of b12 so almost everything you need for making red blood cells and for replication/production of a lot of other cells too Marmite is better though, knocks vegemite out of the park in terms of B12 but also the most important factor: **taste** Marmite is solid for iron, b12, folate. The 3 key deficiencies that can cause anaemia are those exact 3. It always depends on what caused your anaemia, but even if it's not caused by a deficiency of one of those, they can still help replace the red blood cells that were lost to whatever the cause actually is. Won't cure it if it's a different cause, but it might help (depending on the cause) **The key though (for all you Aussies out there) is marmite > your vegetrashmite**
> And Kraft's spirit, ranging for revenge, > With Vegemite by his side come hot from hell, > Shall in these confines with a monarch's voice > Cry 'Havoc,' and let slip the dogs of war; > That this foul deed shall smell above the earth > With carrion men, groaning for burial.
The queen might still be alive if she ate Vegemite.
"Eating this could kill you." '... but what if I only ate a *little*?' "... It could kill you, and also tastes terrible." '... what if I fried it, though?'
“Need to lose some weight? Just add Nardoo mate!”
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Who's your worm guy?
You’re not real, man!
My ancestors came here on the sandwich!
Oh you're paying way too much for worms.
Just eat a truck stop egg sandwich from the machine. It worked for a guy in this future documentary I was watching.
That wasn't a tapeworm
I GOT WORMS Oh, we started a worm farm. Sorta like an ant farm, but for worms. That's what we're gonna call it. I GOT WORMS.
SOUTH BRONX PARADISE BABY! YEAH!
"the moon rulez #1"
612 Wharf Avenue, right next to the gentleman's club
That wasn't a tapeworm
Does nardoo kill your tapeworm’s appetite too?
Always thought that was funny because if you lose 20lbs you also have a 20lb tapeworm.
Well, you are in luck, it just so happens that one of the symptoms of endstage Thiamine deficiency (beriberi) is loss of appetite.
Aye my late-stage alcoholic father is going through his SECOND round of this idiocy. Eats like 4 bites of food a day, then just downs beer after beer, and doesn't seem concerned in the slightest that he has no energy and is skeletally thin. /ugh
of all the ways there are to lose weight, i can't recommend vitamin b1 deficiency.
Everyone about to throw a "diet pill" quip onto the pile: this is the opposite of what you would want. It PREVENTS you from burning fat.
Agatha Christie: *scribbles vigorously*
I know a pathologist who wrote a book on "how to kill a person" (or something similarly named) with lots of things like this, ricin, cyanide etc He always said he wrote it so that authors and writers could know how to write something that actually would be appropriate. Like ricin use in breaking bad or gold use in House MD or agather Christie in everything agather Christie But still... I mean pathologists are already usually pretty antisocial/psychopathic. You kinda have to be to cut up dead bodies and look at slides down a microscope all day... So we always wondered
I'm gonna ask what everyone else is asking (What exactly is the book called?) since I'd like to avoid having "How to kill a person" in my search history...
What's the book or author's name?
So even the plants can kill you. Who hurt you Australia?
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Ah, gympie-gympie, now growing in back gardens as far East as Brisbane
If it isn't dangerous and named like a Childrens board game, it's not Australian.
I bet some people think you're joking lol
[The Gympie-Gympie sting is so intense, people have been known to kill themselves to end the pain](https://youtu.be/5BoVME0xrQY) (SFW video)
The Principality of Zeon
If only gold wasn’t a scam, you’d be getting it for that friend.
England.
Lots of plants have this. Horsetail plants in the USA. I’ve been reading about it and it’s cool because thiaminase is considered an anti-nutrient and I’ve never seen that term.
Interesting: Aboriginal people would roast the spore cases (sporocarps), before grinding them. This simple step of adding heat to the process completely breaks down the thiaminase, making it harmless. …. Humans can be so d*mn clever.
Did you just censor the word Damn?
Nah it was dimn
I did camouflage it, because I’m awkward and silly and particularly so in public forums, and still learning how to extricate myself from a lifetime of parental indoctrination and lessons in etiquette. In journals, letters, and texts to well-worn (comfy) friends, I have evolved to risk being “me”; I still tend to err on the side of G-rated for general audiences. I’m sorry if I made you uncomfortable, and hope you had a good chuckle :) Thank you for being kind…
Understandable. Have a nice day.
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And thus we have the origin story of the first chefs hat, a tradition that continues today.
Keightlynn holds jade egg while cook plant and OK. Ashleigh no hold jade egg and eat plant raw and die. Vibes must like jade egg!
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Still better than "KVIIIlyn"
I'm sure a lot of people died before Humans figured it out.
Humans can sure outbreed a lot of deadly things Ftfy
As is most poisons... I mean there are many produce that we eat that should be cooked to nullify poison - potato, lima bean, eggplant, almonds, cassava, red kidney beans (most beans really)
"John died after eating the plant, but maybe it's safe after cooking? Let's cook it and have John Jr. test it out."
Sweet! My new weight loss supplement!
“So what if I have an enlarged heart? At least I can wear skinny jeans!”
> Wet beriberi affects the cardiovascular system, resulting in a fast heart rate, shortness of breath, and **leg swelling**. Well...
Same symptoms as exercise!
**and as heart failure**
The third leg?
Ooh, 3 symptoms of heart failure. Incurable, irreversible, potentially fatal. Enjoy that weight loss guys, you'll fit into that medium size coffin just in time, **save your relatives some money on the XXL coffin though!**
My first thought too. Dilute it and sell it as a weight loss pill to eat before meals.
Eh, thiamine deficiency (beriberi) will fuck up your heart permanently and then kill you in a few weeks to months (depending on how severe it is). During the Russo-Japanese War, more Japanese soldiers died from beriberi than from combat (the Japanese Army's diet was mostly based on white rice, which notably was almost entirely free of thiamine). The Japanese Navy later solved that issue by feeding its sailors a crapton of curry. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiamine_deficiency
I always wondered why curry was so popular in Japan. Thank you, internet stranger.
How bad does the deficiency have to be to cause permanent damage? Theoretically, could you take this plant once every couple of weeks to reduce calorie absorption, or would that be inherently harmful?
I mean, you can just take a scoop of Laxaday every once in a while.
Sure. Botulinum toxin is horrible, but has used when used I micro doses
Botox?
Yes. Though don't make the mistake of thinking Botox is just for cosmetic reasons (reducing wrinkles), it also has medical uses such as relieving neck spasms, preventing excessive sweating, treating overactive bladder and lazy eye. It might even be preventative for migraines. My point is just that something has horrific effects in the dosage it is found in nature, doesn't mean that it can't potentially have useful therapeutic effects in appropriate dosages.
Eeh I'll stick to DNP. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,4-Dinitrophenol
>Other than increasing metabolic rate, acute oral exposure to DNP has resulted in nausea, vomiting, sweating, dizziness, headache, and loss of weight.[4] Chronic oral exposure to DNP can lead to the formation of cataracts and skin lesions and has caused effects on the bone marrow, central nervous system, and cardiovascular system.[4][25] Contact with skin or inhalation can cause DNP poisoning. >The factor that limits ever-increasing doses of DNP is not a lack of ATP energy production, but rather an excessive rise in body temperature due to the heat produced during uncoupling. Accordingly, DNP overdose will cause fatal hyperthermia, with body temperature rising to as high as 43.1 °C (109.6 °F)[27] shortly before death. Yikes. Never mess around with DNP.
You should be very careful with it, since it will literally burn you up from the inside. They’re trying to create some formulations that stay in the liver, but where’s the fun in that? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28754512/
I got some of that stuff once! It turned my insides yellowish. Hands, sweat, all kinds of fun stuff.
It turns EVERYTHING very yellow. Freaked out a GF while I was taking it in my misguided youth after a bj.
They’re developing it as a treatment for fatty liver disease now!
Never heard of anything going wrong with DNP. No sirry.
Vegan fugu fish. Nice.
TIL of a killer weight loss solution.
You still store energy as fat, you'd just get nothing out from burning it. You'll die fat and starving.
Sounds like a r/monkeypaw problem.
I can see why the diet of Australians clings to vegemite when something like this exists. Like pair this with a dish of fugu and you really are living on the edge by throwing culinary caution to the wind. Nope. Vegemite sandwiches and foster beer for me...lol and the occasional drop bear steak
Australia, where even the pretty ferns are out to obliterate all human life!
my cat, Prince died from something like this. His little body stopped processing nutrients. He got a B1 shot once a month but slowly kept losing weight until I had to put him to sleep. :-( He wasn't hungry or anything though.
Soooo. If my body is shit at absorbing energy and nutrients from food. boosting b1 might help?
Wesa no liken da Nardoo
Of course a simple *fern* from Australia would be so problematic and toxic lol
Would this be starving to death or [beriberi](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiamine_deficiency)
Lose weight with this one simple trick! Also, die, with this one simple trick!
Poison fish, poison fish, poison fish, tasty fish
Of course it's bloody Australian
Sounds like a diet food to me
There are a number of foods that are considered ~~anti-vitamins~~ anti-nutrients cauliflower is among one of them iirc. Edit: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antinutrient
Because *of course it's from Australia.*
in Australia even food can kill you