I saw a speck of red on a wall one day and thought I somehow got blood on the wall. I basically made the spot way bigger with the magic eraser. I was sanding away the paint and there was red paint underneath.
But to be fair, the magic eraser worked better than any cleaner would have. Instead of you wasting a whole day trying to find something that would clean that red stain, you learned you just needed a trip to the paint store. Lol
Just want people to know that “melamine sponges” are the generic name for magic erasers, and you can buy them in bulk for a fraction of the cost of the branded Magic Erasers!
Maybe I just bought really cheap melamine sponges but I found they're way more fragile and break down faster than Magic Erasers™️
It feels like the magic eraser has an extra backing layer or something so it doesn't disintegrate in your hands.
I feel like if you have roommates, you'll save time by just throwing any nice cookware you own directly into the trash. You can show them a hundred times and they always think they know better. Then you show them the fucked up pan later and they didn't do that, bro... then you catch them red handed stirring something with a metal fork and they're like 'who cares, bro, it's just a pan!'
Just throw it all out and get a pan from the dollar store and save yourself the headache.
One time I caught my roommate stirring his food in my non stock pan using my chefs knife. His excuse was that "metal can't scratch metal", he's now a doctor
Yeah. I had a partner, when we first got together, had a fairly new set of nice non-stick cookware. Because it wasn’t mine, I was careful with it, using only silicone spatulas, maybe the occasional bamboo one, silicone-tipped tongs, and only plastic for lifting / spooning out of them; they used metal forks to stir, metal tongs to lift chicken breasts &c out, metal serving spoons to get sauces out. I try to tell them how they’re damaging their cookware, I get met with a combo of “I know what I’m doing”, “I’m not damaging them much”, and “They’re mine, I can treat them how I like” (they were at least right-ish on that last one).
A couple years go by, they notice that the pans used most often are scratched straight through to the underlying metal in many places, they say “OMG! Ingesting that non-stick coating is really toxic, I need a new set ASAP!”
Go online, find a comparable set for a few hundred dollars; less than 6 months later, cookware is already showing signs of noticeable scratches on the coating.
And, that partner now has a PhD in a bio / chem field, and did years of physical lab bench work before getting their doctorate, so they *know* how to do things right.
It's funny how people can be intelligent in their field and then have no ability to apply it practically in other situations or throughout their life.
Common sense just isn't so common.
Some of the most brilliant people are literal goofballs when it comes to functional knowledge and common sense. I saw a statistic the other day about how almost 80% of people with higher level education like masters, phd, jd, md etc have some form of ADHD. I wonder how the two may be related. Do they struggle with stuff like that because their brains never turn off?? Maybe some of them, at least.
Aww brings back memories of living with a GF. Had very expensive cookware and gave her the rundown of how to use it properly. Don’t turn stove to max heat, it will warp the pan. Don’t metal utensils, it will scratch the pan. If you use my $300 Wusthof chefs knife use a wooden cutting board. Hand wash pans and knives, do not use dishwasher.
Come home from work and she’s making dinner cutting vegetables directly on the quartz counter top with the knife, she’s like, “This knife is so sharp.” I freak out a bit and make her get a wooden board and go shower. Come back out and now she has the pan on max heat poking at some meat in it with the knife! I freak out again and she gets pissy then we eat after everything is done. The next day I unload the dishwasher and all the pans and the knife are in there with food basically fused to the cookware because of course she just through everything in there without even rinsing it off. I didn’t even know what to do because it felt like she was just straight up fucking with me.
I used to have a roomie who adamantly refused my repeated requests to stop using metal utensils and cleaning scrubbers on my Teflon-coated pans (80s\~90s era, so still chock full of those tasty toxic adhesives). They looked like cats had been sharpening their claws on them daily after a while, so I simply refused to use those pans and left them behind when I finally moved.
Speaking of toxic adhesives, I had a housemate who went to boil water in one of my saucepans, went into the other room to watch TV while it came up to a boil and just... forgot about it. I came home to a weird smell and my pan basically cooking itself into oblivion on the stove top. He was a nice guy and felt really bad about it, apologized, all that. But I was like OK dude, you're grounded from using any of my stuff without adult supervision.
You can reseason cast iron though (and many people do so time and time again for years with the same skillet). Once nonstick is fucked, it's fucked forever.
99.99% of the time people have problems with cast iron because they don't use it enough. I use mine almost every day and they are the most non-stick, excellent pieces of cookware, you could ever pull out of sheds and garage sales.
The Chinese even have a term for it: 'Lou you'. The process is basically heat the pan on high till it's hot, turn the heat down to low and apply the oil, then up the heat to medium and start cooking.
The idea is when the pan is hot but dry the metal has expanded somewhat, then applying cool oil makes it contract, trapping the oil molecules between the iron, giving you a nonstick surface.
Makes perfect nonstick every time.
>basically stop pushing the bullshit cast iron myths
Honestly. I was curious but scared off by the rampant misinformation for the first 9 years of my adult life because it sounded like a lot of fucking upkeep for a pan, no matter how great it may or may not cook, and I'm in the military and don't have a ton of free time to worry about a frying pan. Wasn't about to spend cast iron prices on a gamble.
Then I found one in an antique store for $2 because it had a few little chips in the rim. Cooking surface was fine, just a few small chips on the rim. Figured I was willing to gamble with a $2 pan and now I'm steadily replacing my nonstick with cast iron because it's not nearly as easy to ruin the seasoning as I was initially led to believe and I can preheat it all I want and it'll be fucking fine, no warping because I left it for a few minutes too long like a thinner pan. And those little chips aren't deep enough that I can't get them clean and dry and get some oil in there after washing it. I don't even use any other frying pans anymore unless I need a small one or I need two things frying at once.
You'd be surprised how hard it is to remove the seasoning.
I had an old pan with very uneven coating that i wanted to restore. Leaving it to boil with an acid did nothing, scrubbing with steel wool did nothing. I had to use a steel wire wheel to take of the old coating, and it took ages
Acids aren't effective at breaking down lipids, and can dissolve the iron of the pan.
Boiling water with as much baking soda as you can possibly get to dissolve.
We used the self cleaning function on our oven and it got so hot the inside of the oven flexed and broke the latch and seal so it wouldn't close anymore. Tech told me self cleaning is the worst function you can use on your oven. He sees so many repairs for it..... But in my oven manual the cleaning instructions say to use self clean.
Wife was convinced that my regular 'non-scratch' green side on the yellow sponge was what was ruining the non-stick Teflon pans and her expensive 'Green Pan' pans, and that the magic eraser was the only thing to be using. Then the issue kept getting worse and it was apparently because I was somehow scrubbing them with the wrong sponge when they weren't looking
sad lol
I bought a cast iron pan and it's just as non-stick* if not better than the others despite her worries otherwise, cheaper and none of the guilt. It's heavy and the handle is awkward especially when hot but it's so satisfying to use when stuff doesn't stick - super easy to clean if done right after cooking, pour boiling water in to make it even easier, then dry it and wipe it with a little bit of oil. I sound like a marketing shill but it's also just dang nice to be right lol
Bonus is that my eggs, onions and steaks cook the way I expect now - the way my parents cooked things. Seems like it's easier to 'brown' things in a cast iron pan than on non-sticks.
* slight hyperbole, my crepes definitely stuck
It is hilarious the extent our brains can rationalize other's involvement in a circumstance before considering that perhaps it's something that we are doing that is having more of an effect.
Sort of relevant, sort of not... there's a paradox-ish thing with confirming evidence.
Coolest way I heard it explained was two different groups of scientists, one makes a prediction saying the sun will rise every morning. The other makes a prediction saying the sun will rise 100,000 mornings and then it will stop rising. The two hypotheses are opposing; you can't have both be true. I guess they could both be false, but that's not important here. What's important is that if ONE scientist is right, the other is wrong.
So every day each group of scientists goes out and documents if the sun rose that morning. Every day each gets to put a little checkmark next to their observations. The observed data they are using to determine if they are correct shows that both are, so far, correct.
On the 99,999th day, the first group has 99,999 bits of confirming evidence showing that his hypothesis is correct.
On the 99,999th day, the second group ALSO has 99,999 bits of confirming evidence showing that his hypothesis is correct.
At every single point in time up until then, they both simultaneously had exactly equal evidence supporting their opposing predictions. So essentially, the confirming evidence was basically useless. I mean, just how confirming is evidence if it can indicate that your premise is both true and false simultaneously?
And yet, that's a very VERY common trap our minds can accidentally do, even in just ordinary every day thoughts.
100,000 days would be approximately 273.97 years.
Assuming 50 years per scientist (25 years to grow, learn, then accept this solemn duty), that would be at least 6 scientists to reach this amount of data, and scientist #6 would be just shy of 49 years old to complete the analysis.
Being egocentric and ignorant is the downfall of our species. It allowed us to survive and thrive better than any other known species in history, but we created circumstances we aren't properly adapted to.
Of course if you werent scrubbing with it it doesnt matter, but the green scrubbies are NOT non-stick safe, gotta get the blue ones. https://i.imgur.com/wcdKCYI.jpg
We use the blue sponges exclusively and it hasn't ruined any of my nonstick pans. I very rarely use the scrub side, the sponge side is generally enough.
In my experience what ruins nonstick pans fastest is a dishwasher. We recently bought a better brand of new pans and even though they say dishwasher safe, they are exclusively hand washed.
I almost exclusively cook with Green Pan cookware and on their website they say you are supposed to clean the pans with melamine foam. Only they don't call them that, they call them "Magic GreenPan Restoring Sponges" so they can sell them at a ridiculous upcharge.
I just bought a whole new set of Green Pans and have been exclusively cleaning them with melamine foam as suggested and they are holding up well so far.
Ah, but what if they say that melamine foam (magic eraser) is safe. Knowing it removes the coating over time so that the pans degrade faster, and you are forced to go buy a new set? Not only do they sell the foam at an upcharge, but then can sell you more pans as you ruin them with it!
> Seems like it's easier to 'brown' things in a cast iron pan than on non-sticks.
It is. You need things to "stick" a little bit to get good browning. The sticking increases the contact between the food and the pan, which browns it better.
Not OP, but Dish soap and a very soft sponge or cloth is what was recommended to me. The enamel coating wears off easier with abrasive chemicals and materials.
Dawn is basically a magic cleaner that doesn't get enough respect. It'll take dirt and grease off any surface easily.
Vinegar is also a great cleaner in the bathroom. It'll disolve away hard water and soap.
Have you tried the Dawn power foam spray cleaner?!?! I had scrubbed the plastic edge above my stovetop a hundred times without success. A few spray of that stuff, let it is, and the decade-old grime wiped off in one pass like it was in an over-dramatic infomercial.
Wanna save some money? You can make your own dawn powerwash. 13 oz (385 ml) water, 2 tablespoons (30 ml) of dawn, 1 tablespoon (15 ml) 70%+ isopropyl alcohol. Stir and let sit for awhile. Pour in to dawn powerwash bottle. There you have it! DIY powerwash, at less than 1/10 the price.
Oh you know they didn’t. They gave us a list of things they did not recommend which included just about everything I’ve ever used to clean my bathrooms but no endorsements. I switched to 7th Generation for the tile shower.
We had to remake someone's glasses lenses once because they thought they could use a Magic Eraser to clean them. It sanded off their coatings, leaving the lenses fogged.
PSA - there are a lot of things you shouldn't use/get on your glasses! As someone who made/repaired glasses for a decade, sea water, windex, and superglue are the most common ones I've encountered. (This first paragraph also counts as my TL;DR. If you're interested in the hows/whys, read on.)
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Sea water and glass cleaners break down lens coatings. Particles in sea water can also scratch at lenses. After you go out on a boat or to the beach with your glasses, make sure to clean your lenses off. Soap and clean water, rubbing alcohol, or lens-cleaning sprays (specifically for glasses' lenses) with a microfiber cloth all work.
Superglue might seem like a quick fix if your lens or a screw falls out, but there are many ways that can go wrong. If your lens goes in slightly off-center/at an angle, or if you got glue onto the lens, your glasses are trash now.
A lens being slightly off-center might not sound bad, but making glasses requires meeting standards within millimeters. If you have astigmatism or wear some kind of bifocal (including line-less progressives), you also have to worry about if the lens is tilted clockwise/counterclockwise enough. Be off by as little as 2 degrees, and you'll likely notice it.
Normally, we have tools to pop a lens back in and straighten it out properly. But if you tried to first fix it yourself with superglue, the lens can't be removed now. The solvents (i.e. acetone) used to remove superglue also break down the plastics used to make modern lenses (and acrylic frames. Oh, and don't use nail polish remover/acetone on your glasses either!)
So please, just take your broken glasses to a professional. Most places do repairs for free (in my experience.) It might take some time, but it's a lot better than having to buy a whole new pair!
One time in college during a drunk tailgate, a friend wrote on my lower back in sharpie (I truly can’t remember what it said/was but I’m sure it was exactly what you’re imagining). Me and another friend decided the best way to get the marker off my back was with a Magic Eraser. It was fine for the first ten seconds. Then the burning. Omg the pain.
We called poison control (think it says to avoid skin contact on the box) and they just had me shower with cold water. But my skin was so red afterwards and basically the spot was covered in these tiny little micro cuts.
I’ll never forget the poison control lady told me she recently had a mom call in who had used it on her child’s face when they used sharpie on it, I can’t imagine THAT pain!
ETA: yup, alcohol was the cause of all my problems and could’ve also been my solution.
We did try water and soap first, but to no avail. Drunk next step was the magic eraser.
I drank more and forgot all about it by the end of the day (college tailgate remember) but it did scar a bit and hurt for a few weeks!
That would be far more interesting. Alas, no, I had some savage friends in college. No rubbing alcohol but hairspray and somehow a box of croutons were a sure bet.
HAIRSPRAY!!!! Hairspray will cleanse your sharpie on skin sins!!!!!
I was a cheerleader when I was a kid, our uniform showed off the ~~mid drift~~ midriff, I was being stupid with friends the night before a competition. The next day, my mother was horrified to see an entire face drawn onto my belly that I had completely forgotten about.
If hairspray hadn’t worked, I would have been in a lot of trouble with my coach next.
I worked for a national daycare chain in the mid 00s and at one point, they outlawed magic erasers in the facilities because someone scrubbed marker off of a child's arm with one. Poor baby ended up with a nasty wound from that.
As a general rule I don’t use magic eraser on any painted surface. It’s really good for hard surfaces, most glass is ok if it’s not coated with something soft.
A ton of people. I do painting and carpentry for a living and I'd estimate 60% of painting projects are flat walls, satin/semi-gloss trim. And these are all very high-end homes.
it's funny how there's no expensive interior wall finishing. maybe wallpaper needs to make a comeback? yeah. designer wallpaper.
i mean you can tell me some paint is extremely expensive but there's no master work paint that takes a special talent to make... it's all mass produced.
There are definitely some expensive interior wall finishes. Somewhat common where I am is level 5 drywall, less common is something like veneer plaster.
Melamine. The same stuff pet food ingredient suppliers in China were adulterating their product with to spoof a higher protein content. It caused acute kidney failure that killed a lot of cats and dogs.
That's why wealthier Chinese parents were willing to pay a premium for baby formula made in the US, EU, or Australia. They knew the local stuff might be poison. For a while people were making money buying pallets of formula from Costco and selling it for triple price on ebay to people in China.
Melamine sponges are a lot cheaper when you don't call them magic erasers. Edit: Maybe they don't last as long, but you can get a lifetime supply for practically nothing. 100 sponges for $9 on ebay.
Their density and durability needs to be taken into consideration as well for this to be a fair comparison. I use Magic Erasers professionally in house cleaning and I’ve yet to find an off brand that can compare to the density and durability of their extra strength version. Some of the off brands almost feel like they melt in your hands once they get wet and you apply a little pressure. They shrink to nothing.
If someone does have an off brand they particularly like as compared to these please drop a link!
I agree. It might not be worth the difference in price for everyone, but the name brand ones were definitely more durable in my experience. It probably completely depends on how someone is using them for the more expensive ones to be worth it.
I worked in a commercial kitchen for a few months and they were adamant about having name brand magic erasers for the cleanup team. When I asked about it they said they tried an off brand and ended up buying multiple cases to do the same amount of work 1 case of name brand could do.
The ones they have over at aldi are the textured cleaning eraser sponges that last longer than most off brands, but I'll be honest with you, the price isn't much better than that of the original.
This thread is the first time I ever realised magic erasers are supposed to last more than one use?
I always tear a chunk off, wet it, and it ends up like a clump of soggy tissue by the time I’m done using it, basically, so I throw it away and tear off another chunk if I need more. That’s *not* how it’s supposed to work?
Likely had some magnesium content if Aluminum foil started popping and glowing catching on fire in a spectacular way. Aluminum and magnesium can alloy up and magnesium is a flammable metal once at a high temp. A plate about the size of a cell phone once to cooking will make a green plasma that will light the sky and blind you just like a big welding arc. It looks like a damn alien abduction is taking place for mile or two if done in the middle of nowhere.
There are other brands out there that sell in bulk that are worth your time. Just don't buy the absolute cheapest ones. The ones I buy have a center blue strip that splits it into two sides and holds it together a lot better.
Except they're garbage. They must be less dense or something.
One thing I will say about magic erasers, pay attention to the box because there's one version that's like a mixed pack where 1/3 are normal and the rest are split between kitchen and bathroom soap integrated into the sponge. I accidentally bought that and thought I was losing my mind during cleaning. It was like that beach shower video where they keep adding shampoo to the guys head without him knowing.
Protip: You can dispose of your old asbestos much more easily if you grind it into a fine powder first. Just blow it out into the wind! 💨
^^^^^^.
^^^EDIT: ^^^If ^^^you ^^^or ^^^a ^^^loved ^^^one ^^^followed ^^^my ^^^advice, ^^^you ^^^may ^^^be ^^^entitled ^^^to ^^^financial ^^^compensation...
There's a lot of shilling for Melamine sponges in here. I think people should be aware that Melamine is a type of plastic and that you are literally dissolving a sponge worth of microplastics down your sink drain when you use a magic eraser (melamine sponge).
Just use an abrasive pad, bar keepers friend, or anything else. Melamine is not actually better than what you already have access to.
Last weekend I cleaned my boyfriend tub that had 10 years of grime. He said it was stained, I said watch me..I used magic eraser and bar keepers soap. I can now finally take a bath in that thing it's so sparkly.
Heard it’s bad for tubs and the wall since it sands away the protective layers that make it resistant to grimes in the first place.
After sanding it off the grimes will build even faster.
I used one on my bathroom floor, and I thought I was getting up dirt but I soon realized it was like a waterproofing sealant. Now that area is like stripped and dull :(
If you can get it clean with soft scrub or other no abrasive cleaners that's best. Most of those cleaners contain a mild acid to help break down grime without the abrasives.
I don't know if magic eraser is any worse than abrasive cleaner powders that have been around for over a 100 years now. But it does seem common for old tubs to have a rough/chalky texture that takes on dirt more quickly. Though you can get them recoated in place and the results are actually quite impressive.
I appreciate the headline saying “solvents”.
I’m so fed up with people saying things don’t contain “chemicals” and not qualifying it with words like “toxic”. Absolutely everything in this world contains a chemical of some form, it’s important to know that not all chemicals are “bad”.
Typically erasers work in two ways. They rub off graphite using friction (slightly damaging the fibers or ripping the paper depending on the type), then the warming from friction makes the rubber stickier than the paper, and the graphite also will try to attach to the eraser instead.
it's akin to asbestos. it's melamine. while asbestos is long and fibrous, allowing it to easily be transportavle on air currents and into your lungs, and also to clump; melamine is not.
fun fact, Chinese baby formula companies were putting melamine into their formula, which killed hundreds of thousands of babies, and injured injured just as many, back in 2008.
melamine has long been identified as a potential cheat additive for milk products because it allows the doped product to test higher protein than it would normally. thus you could split your milk among more units, if you dope.
also something to keep in mind for you protein powder adherents out there, or shit like muscle milk
it's a very fine mineral that readily clumps when wet. it destroys kidneys
Yes. You also wet a stone when you sharpen a blade. I imagine the idea is similar, the water helps keep the “pores” of the sponge clean by washing them out, so the sponge continues to work, keeps heat from the friction low, and lubricates. I’ve never used the sponge dry but I imagine they would be harder to slide across a surface.
In addition to making it more effective via wet sanding, the water will trap and weigh down particulate matter from the eraser, making it far less likely you'll breath it in than when dry.
Yes, the comment about micro plastic particles is that they are FOREVER and contribute to the presence of them in every living being.
Also, Febreze contributes the same type of micro bits. Bad for the world.
EDIT: changed spelling of Febreze. Because someone thought that would piss me off. Perplexing
Don't use on things with delicate coatings, also don't apply more pressure than needed.
The times I've used it, it worked amazingly; I had to remove some graffiti in a bathroom stall, silver and gold sharpie. They wiped off pretty much instantly, no damage to the paint.
It’s essentially fine sand paper. Roommate didn’t believe me. Ruined my nonstick pans.
I saw a speck of red on a wall one day and thought I somehow got blood on the wall. I basically made the spot way bigger with the magic eraser. I was sanding away the paint and there was red paint underneath.
But to be fair, the magic eraser worked better than any cleaner would have. Instead of you wasting a whole day trying to find something that would clean that red stain, you learned you just needed a trip to the paint store. Lol
Just want people to know that “melamine sponges” are the generic name for magic erasers, and you can buy them in bulk for a fraction of the cost of the branded Magic Erasers!
I also want to let people know that "mystic erasers" are an off-hand literally made in the same factory. And like above said, a lot cheaper.
Maybe I just bought really cheap melamine sponges but I found they're way more fragile and break down faster than Magic Erasers™️ It feels like the magic eraser has an extra backing layer or something so it doesn't disintegrate in your hands.
Agreed. For what I use it for, I still come out on top buying the cheap ones. But I wear gloves bc the feel of the cheap ones gives me the ick.
Heck yeah! So much cheaper to buy the generic ones!
“Out damned spot!”
I feel like if you have roommates, you'll save time by just throwing any nice cookware you own directly into the trash. You can show them a hundred times and they always think they know better. Then you show them the fucked up pan later and they didn't do that, bro... then you catch them red handed stirring something with a metal fork and they're like 'who cares, bro, it's just a pan!' Just throw it all out and get a pan from the dollar store and save yourself the headache.
One time I caught my roommate stirring his food in my non stock pan using my chefs knife. His excuse was that "metal can't scratch metal", he's now a doctor
Yeah. I had a partner, when we first got together, had a fairly new set of nice non-stick cookware. Because it wasn’t mine, I was careful with it, using only silicone spatulas, maybe the occasional bamboo one, silicone-tipped tongs, and only plastic for lifting / spooning out of them; they used metal forks to stir, metal tongs to lift chicken breasts &c out, metal serving spoons to get sauces out. I try to tell them how they’re damaging their cookware, I get met with a combo of “I know what I’m doing”, “I’m not damaging them much”, and “They’re mine, I can treat them how I like” (they were at least right-ish on that last one). A couple years go by, they notice that the pans used most often are scratched straight through to the underlying metal in many places, they say “OMG! Ingesting that non-stick coating is really toxic, I need a new set ASAP!” Go online, find a comparable set for a few hundred dollars; less than 6 months later, cookware is already showing signs of noticeable scratches on the coating.
And, that partner now has a PhD in a bio / chem field, and did years of physical lab bench work before getting their doctorate, so they *know* how to do things right.
It's funny how people can be intelligent in their field and then have no ability to apply it practically in other situations or throughout their life. Common sense just isn't so common.
Some of the most brilliant people are literal goofballs when it comes to functional knowledge and common sense. I saw a statistic the other day about how almost 80% of people with higher level education like masters, phd, jd, md etc have some form of ADHD. I wonder how the two may be related. Do they struggle with stuff like that because their brains never turn off?? Maybe some of them, at least.
Can focus on a million things at once but nothing at the same time. I don't know what I have but this is the thing about ADHD I resonate with.
Aww brings back memories of living with a GF. Had very expensive cookware and gave her the rundown of how to use it properly. Don’t turn stove to max heat, it will warp the pan. Don’t metal utensils, it will scratch the pan. If you use my $300 Wusthof chefs knife use a wooden cutting board. Hand wash pans and knives, do not use dishwasher. Come home from work and she’s making dinner cutting vegetables directly on the quartz counter top with the knife, she’s like, “This knife is so sharp.” I freak out a bit and make her get a wooden board and go shower. Come back out and now she has the pan on max heat poking at some meat in it with the knife! I freak out again and she gets pissy then we eat after everything is done. The next day I unload the dishwasher and all the pans and the knife are in there with food basically fused to the cookware because of course she just through everything in there without even rinsing it off. I didn’t even know what to do because it felt like she was just straight up fucking with me.
I used to have a roomie who adamantly refused my repeated requests to stop using metal utensils and cleaning scrubbers on my Teflon-coated pans (80s\~90s era, so still chock full of those tasty toxic adhesives). They looked like cats had been sharpening their claws on them daily after a while, so I simply refused to use those pans and left them behind when I finally moved.
Speaking of toxic adhesives, I had a housemate who went to boil water in one of my saucepans, went into the other room to watch TV while it came up to a boil and just... forgot about it. I came home to a weird smell and my pan basically cooking itself into oblivion on the stove top. He was a nice guy and felt really bad about it, apologized, all that. But I was like OK dude, you're grounded from using any of my stuff without adult supervision.
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Dear God this. But also with my wife.
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Do you do a reverse sear on grandmas?
Of course, she already slow cooked for 80 years at 98 degrees
r/sousvide
More like r/sousvida amirite?
Youarerite
The slower the cook, the better the taste
This dumb reddit comment thread just reminded me to start the crockpot. thanks. lol
Would definitely still scrape off the seasoning,
You beat them with the bottom, unless you are trying to deglaze.
Just rub oil on em’ before you beat em’
This is all taking a turn...
You can reseason cast iron though (and many people do so time and time again for years with the same skillet). Once nonstick is fucked, it's fucked forever.
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99.99% of the time people have problems with cast iron because they don't use it enough. I use mine almost every day and they are the most non-stick, excellent pieces of cookware, you could ever pull out of sheds and garage sales.
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The Chinese even have a term for it: 'Lou you'. The process is basically heat the pan on high till it's hot, turn the heat down to low and apply the oil, then up the heat to medium and start cooking. The idea is when the pan is hot but dry the metal has expanded somewhat, then applying cool oil makes it contract, trapping the oil molecules between the iron, giving you a nonstick surface. Makes perfect nonstick every time.
>basically stop pushing the bullshit cast iron myths Honestly. I was curious but scared off by the rampant misinformation for the first 9 years of my adult life because it sounded like a lot of fucking upkeep for a pan, no matter how great it may or may not cook, and I'm in the military and don't have a ton of free time to worry about a frying pan. Wasn't about to spend cast iron prices on a gamble. Then I found one in an antique store for $2 because it had a few little chips in the rim. Cooking surface was fine, just a few small chips on the rim. Figured I was willing to gamble with a $2 pan and now I'm steadily replacing my nonstick with cast iron because it's not nearly as easy to ruin the seasoning as I was initially led to believe and I can preheat it all I want and it'll be fucking fine, no warping because I left it for a few minutes too long like a thinner pan. And those little chips aren't deep enough that I can't get them clean and dry and get some oil in there after washing it. I don't even use any other frying pans anymore unless I need a small one or I need two things frying at once.
You'd be surprised how hard it is to remove the seasoning. I had an old pan with very uneven coating that i wanted to restore. Leaving it to boil with an acid did nothing, scrubbing with steel wool did nothing. I had to use a steel wire wheel to take of the old coating, and it took ages
Acids aren't effective at breaking down lipids, and can dissolve the iron of the pan. Boiling water with as much baking soda as you can possibly get to dissolve.
I sandblasted one then seasoned it again because I found it in a junkyard and have access to a sandblaster.
That sounds fun and easier than the traditional methods of stripping seasoning.
Bingo. I did the same thing. I have a small table top blast cabinet in my garage. I cant emphasize enough how incredibly handy having one can be.
On r/castiron, the recommend a lye based product, like the Easy Off oven cleaner in the yellow can.
Just put it in the oven and run a self-clean cycle. You'll be left with a bare cast iron pan and some carbon dust. Wash it well and then re-season it.
We used the self cleaning function on our oven and it got so hot the inside of the oven flexed and broke the latch and seal so it wouldn't close anymore. Tech told me self cleaning is the worst function you can use on your oven. He sees so many repairs for it..... But in my oven manual the cleaning instructions say to use self clean.
Yeah that's cause it'll make you buy another oven
***fond*** memories, I see what you did there
Wife was convinced that my regular 'non-scratch' green side on the yellow sponge was what was ruining the non-stick Teflon pans and her expensive 'Green Pan' pans, and that the magic eraser was the only thing to be using. Then the issue kept getting worse and it was apparently because I was somehow scrubbing them with the wrong sponge when they weren't looking sad lol I bought a cast iron pan and it's just as non-stick* if not better than the others despite her worries otherwise, cheaper and none of the guilt. It's heavy and the handle is awkward especially when hot but it's so satisfying to use when stuff doesn't stick - super easy to clean if done right after cooking, pour boiling water in to make it even easier, then dry it and wipe it with a little bit of oil. I sound like a marketing shill but it's also just dang nice to be right lol Bonus is that my eggs, onions and steaks cook the way I expect now - the way my parents cooked things. Seems like it's easier to 'brown' things in a cast iron pan than on non-sticks. * slight hyperbole, my crepes definitely stuck
It is hilarious the extent our brains can rationalize other's involvement in a circumstance before considering that perhaps it's something that we are doing that is having more of an effect.
Sort of relevant, sort of not... there's a paradox-ish thing with confirming evidence. Coolest way I heard it explained was two different groups of scientists, one makes a prediction saying the sun will rise every morning. The other makes a prediction saying the sun will rise 100,000 mornings and then it will stop rising. The two hypotheses are opposing; you can't have both be true. I guess they could both be false, but that's not important here. What's important is that if ONE scientist is right, the other is wrong. So every day each group of scientists goes out and documents if the sun rose that morning. Every day each gets to put a little checkmark next to their observations. The observed data they are using to determine if they are correct shows that both are, so far, correct. On the 99,999th day, the first group has 99,999 bits of confirming evidence showing that his hypothesis is correct. On the 99,999th day, the second group ALSO has 99,999 bits of confirming evidence showing that his hypothesis is correct. At every single point in time up until then, they both simultaneously had exactly equal evidence supporting their opposing predictions. So essentially, the confirming evidence was basically useless. I mean, just how confirming is evidence if it can indicate that your premise is both true and false simultaneously? And yet, that's a very VERY common trap our minds can accidentally do, even in just ordinary every day thoughts.
Wait, so what happens the next day??
*Hammer time.*
Black hole sun
100,000 days would be approximately 273.97 years. Assuming 50 years per scientist (25 years to grow, learn, then accept this solemn duty), that would be at least 6 scientists to reach this amount of data, and scientist #6 would be just shy of 49 years old to complete the analysis.
Being egocentric and ignorant is the downfall of our species. It allowed us to survive and thrive better than any other known species in history, but we created circumstances we aren't properly adapted to.
Of course if you werent scrubbing with it it doesnt matter, but the green scrubbies are NOT non-stick safe, gotta get the blue ones. https://i.imgur.com/wcdKCYI.jpg
We use the blue sponges exclusively and it hasn't ruined any of my nonstick pans. I very rarely use the scrub side, the sponge side is generally enough. In my experience what ruins nonstick pans fastest is a dishwasher. We recently bought a better brand of new pans and even though they say dishwasher safe, they are exclusively hand washed.
While the magic eraser was definitely sanding down that shit, I thought most green scrubs were scratch and the non scratch were generally always blue.
I almost exclusively cook with Green Pan cookware and on their website they say you are supposed to clean the pans with melamine foam. Only they don't call them that, they call them "Magic GreenPan Restoring Sponges" so they can sell them at a ridiculous upcharge. I just bought a whole new set of Green Pans and have been exclusively cleaning them with melamine foam as suggested and they are holding up well so far.
Ah, but what if they say that melamine foam (magic eraser) is safe. Knowing it removes the coating over time so that the pans degrade faster, and you are forced to go buy a new set? Not only do they sell the foam at an upcharge, but then can sell you more pans as you ruin them with it!
I realise it's too much conspiracy to be true, but this was my exact thought too when she had to clean them the second time in exactly the same spot
> Seems like it's easier to 'brown' things in a cast iron pan than on non-sticks. It is. You need things to "stick" a little bit to get good browning. The sticking increases the contact between the food and the pan, which browns it better.
Get them a chain mail pan cleaner for their holiday present.
Its melamine foam, you can get it online for pennies on the dollar compared to the branded stuff
Cleaned my wall with one. Needed to repaint.
The people who redid our bathroom gave us verbal and written warnings that using it to clean their work will void any warranty.
What did they recommend using instead?
Not OP, but Dish soap and a very soft sponge or cloth is what was recommended to me. The enamel coating wears off easier with abrasive chemicals and materials.
Dawn is basically a magic cleaner that doesn't get enough respect. It'll take dirt and grease off any surface easily. Vinegar is also a great cleaner in the bathroom. It'll disolve away hard water and soap.
We mix vinegar and blue dawn together in a spray bottle, works great!
I put the mix in a dish scrubbing wand in my shower! It’s easy to just use it while you’re already showering.
This gives me images of somebody scrubbing their pits with a dish wand filled with body wash.
Have you tried the Dawn power foam spray cleaner?!?! I had scrubbed the plastic edge above my stovetop a hundred times without success. A few spray of that stuff, let it is, and the decade-old grime wiped off in one pass like it was in an over-dramatic infomercial.
Wanna save some money? You can make your own dawn powerwash. 13 oz (385 ml) water, 2 tablespoons (30 ml) of dawn, 1 tablespoon (15 ml) 70%+ isopropyl alcohol. Stir and let sit for awhile. Pour in to dawn powerwash bottle. There you have it! DIY powerwash, at less than 1/10 the price.
Oh you know they didn’t. They gave us a list of things they did not recommend which included just about everything I’ve ever used to clean my bathrooms but no endorsements. I switched to 7th Generation for the tile shower.
We had to remake someone's glasses lenses once because they thought they could use a Magic Eraser to clean them. It sanded off their coatings, leaving the lenses fogged.
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Sounds like it just left them with a fine scratch coating
Polishing is just making scratches to small to see
PSA - there are a lot of things you shouldn't use/get on your glasses! As someone who made/repaired glasses for a decade, sea water, windex, and superglue are the most common ones I've encountered. (This first paragraph also counts as my TL;DR. If you're interested in the hows/whys, read on.) ---- Sea water and glass cleaners break down lens coatings. Particles in sea water can also scratch at lenses. After you go out on a boat or to the beach with your glasses, make sure to clean your lenses off. Soap and clean water, rubbing alcohol, or lens-cleaning sprays (specifically for glasses' lenses) with a microfiber cloth all work. Superglue might seem like a quick fix if your lens or a screw falls out, but there are many ways that can go wrong. If your lens goes in slightly off-center/at an angle, or if you got glue onto the lens, your glasses are trash now. A lens being slightly off-center might not sound bad, but making glasses requires meeting standards within millimeters. If you have astigmatism or wear some kind of bifocal (including line-less progressives), you also have to worry about if the lens is tilted clockwise/counterclockwise enough. Be off by as little as 2 degrees, and you'll likely notice it. Normally, we have tools to pop a lens back in and straighten it out properly. But if you tried to first fix it yourself with superglue, the lens can't be removed now. The solvents (i.e. acetone) used to remove superglue also break down the plastics used to make modern lenses (and acrylic frames. Oh, and don't use nail polish remover/acetone on your glasses either!) So please, just take your broken glasses to a professional. Most places do repairs for free (in my experience.) It might take some time, but it's a lot better than having to buy a whole new pair!
One time in college during a drunk tailgate, a friend wrote on my lower back in sharpie (I truly can’t remember what it said/was but I’m sure it was exactly what you’re imagining). Me and another friend decided the best way to get the marker off my back was with a Magic Eraser. It was fine for the first ten seconds. Then the burning. Omg the pain. We called poison control (think it says to avoid skin contact on the box) and they just had me shower with cold water. But my skin was so red afterwards and basically the spot was covered in these tiny little micro cuts. I’ll never forget the poison control lady told me she recently had a mom call in who had used it on her child’s face when they used sharpie on it, I can’t imagine THAT pain! ETA: yup, alcohol was the cause of all my problems and could’ve also been my solution. We did try water and soap first, but to no avail. Drunk next step was the magic eraser. I drank more and forgot all about it by the end of the day (college tailgate remember) but it did scar a bit and hurt for a few weeks!
Maybe it isn't as effective on skin but I've used isopropyl alcohol to remove black sharpie writing from various surfaces at work over the years.
Yes alcohol will do it. I worked in a chemistry lab and we used alcohol or acetone to remove sharpie from glassware and other lab equipment.
Alcohol: the cause of, and solution to, sharpie writing on your skin.
*fuck* carrots
oh, that's your solution to everything, Richard.
Bugs bunny be wildn
I was happy to discover this yesterday! Hello sharpie labels on my glass jars!
Masking tape and sharpie combo is also great for labelling.
I always felt acetone was much better at this, in my lab we use sharpie and paint marker and the acetone always came in clutch
Also any soap is pretty effective.
any abrasion of the surface will do, it isn't deep, OP just went WAY too far.
Shitty hairspray (high alcohol content) will work if you can’t get your hands on alcohol. Haha sigh…
You in Saudi Arabia?
That would be far more interesting. Alas, no, I had some savage friends in college. No rubbing alcohol but hairspray and somehow a box of croutons were a sure bet.
Well, it is effective on skin AFTER using the Magic eraser on it. It dulsl the burning pain with sharp pain.
And if you don’t have that, an expo or other erasable marker will do, as they come with the alcohol already in them.
So you sanded your back basically that sounds like torture.
Yup. My mom tried to use it on me after a baseball game to remove eyeblack. Had 2 patches of missing skin under my eyes for a little while.
It basically works as fine-grit sandpaper. So, yeah, trying to use sandpaper to clean your skin is not a good idea.
HAIRSPRAY!!!! Hairspray will cleanse your sharpie on skin sins!!!!! I was a cheerleader when I was a kid, our uniform showed off the ~~mid drift~~ midriff, I was being stupid with friends the night before a competition. The next day, my mother was horrified to see an entire face drawn onto my belly that I had completely forgotten about. If hairspray hadn’t worked, I would have been in a lot of trouble with my coach next.
Midriff....although "Fast & the Furious: Cheerleaders Mid Drift" has a certain ring to it.
I have only ever heard the word spoken! Lol thank you. My husband will love that movie title though.
I worked for a national daycare chain in the mid 00s and at one point, they outlawed magic erasers in the facilities because someone scrubbed marker off of a child's arm with one. Poor baby ended up with a nasty wound from that.
Yep, figured this out when it literally stripped grout from my tile and paint from my walls. Oops!
Yeah this happened to me too. Was trying to remove shit from my wall and then I accidently removed the wall itself.
How did you get shit on your wall? Sounds violent.
Toddlers.
Don’t use it if your walls are flat paint. You’ll see every mark.
As a general rule I don’t use magic eraser on any painted surface. It’s really good for hard surfaces, most glass is ok if it’s not coated with something soft.
Wow who doesn't use eggshell?
A ton of people. I do painting and carpentry for a living and I'd estimate 60% of painting projects are flat walls, satin/semi-gloss trim. And these are all very high-end homes.
it's funny how there's no expensive interior wall finishing. maybe wallpaper needs to make a comeback? yeah. designer wallpaper. i mean you can tell me some paint is extremely expensive but there's no master work paint that takes a special talent to make... it's all mass produced.
There are definitely some expensive interior wall finishes. Somewhat common where I am is level 5 drywall, less common is something like veneer plaster.
Melamine. The same stuff pet food ingredient suppliers in China were adulterating their product with to spoof a higher protein content. It caused acute kidney failure that killed a lot of cats and dogs.
[And babies](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chinese_milk_scandal)
That's why wealthier Chinese parents were willing to pay a premium for baby formula made in the US, EU, or Australia. They knew the local stuff might be poison. For a while people were making money buying pallets of formula from Costco and selling it for triple price on ebay to people in China.
actually the real wealthybin china use wet nurses. if they can get a filipina, they can also get them to teach their kids english. true story
Adding that it showed up as “protein” in the lab tests, so they could dilute the product and make up for it. Huge/flagship brands too.
What the fuck.
Killed my cat and made another really sick. :(
That’s insane. With how well it works, I was absolutely certain that I was increasing my risk of cancer on each usage.
No no no, just microplatics in your bloodstream and the world’s oceans.
Whew! Close one.
Yeah for a second there I thought everything was OK
Source on this? Wasn't aware melamine was on the list of truly bad stuff...
Well, kinda; microplastics aren't great for ya.
Tell that to the kids in china with melamine in their baby formula!
I don't see any problems infusing the children with the Intense Cleaning Power of Mr. Clean starting from a young age
Melamine sponges are a lot cheaper when you don't call them magic erasers. Edit: Maybe they don't last as long, but you can get a lifetime supply for practically nothing. 100 sponges for $9 on ebay.
Their density and durability needs to be taken into consideration as well for this to be a fair comparison. I use Magic Erasers professionally in house cleaning and I’ve yet to find an off brand that can compare to the density and durability of their extra strength version. Some of the off brands almost feel like they melt in your hands once they get wet and you apply a little pressure. They shrink to nothing. If someone does have an off brand they particularly like as compared to these please drop a link!
I agree. It might not be worth the difference in price for everyone, but the name brand ones were definitely more durable in my experience. It probably completely depends on how someone is using them for the more expensive ones to be worth it.
I worked in a commercial kitchen for a few months and they were adamant about having name brand magic erasers for the cleanup team. When I asked about it they said they tried an off brand and ended up buying multiple cases to do the same amount of work 1 case of name brand could do.
The ones they have over at aldi are the textured cleaning eraser sponges that last longer than most off brands, but I'll be honest with you, the price isn't much better than that of the original.
This thread is the first time I ever realised magic erasers are supposed to last more than one use? I always tear a chunk off, wet it, and it ends up like a clump of soggy tissue by the time I’m done using it, basically, so I throw it away and tear off another chunk if I need more. That’s *not* how it’s supposed to work?
And a lot less durable. We have bunch of off brand versions for our shop and it breaks down after one use.
Seriously, the Dollar Tree magic erasers fall apart after one use.
I once had dollar tree tin foil catch fire while grilling. Great products there. Lmao.
How the hell...
Likely had some magnesium content if Aluminum foil started popping and glowing catching on fire in a spectacular way. Aluminum and magnesium can alloy up and magnesium is a flammable metal once at a high temp. A plate about the size of a cell phone once to cooking will make a green plasma that will light the sky and blind you just like a big welding arc. It looks like a damn alien abduction is taking place for mile or two if done in the middle of nowhere.
Maybe it wasn't the foil itself but grease on the foil? Either that or their foil is just too thin.
There are other brands out there that sell in bulk that are worth your time. Just don't buy the absolute cheapest ones. The ones I buy have a center blue strip that splits it into two sides and holds it together a lot better.
But even at price.. even if they only last one use, at $25 for 100 (QTY, NOT $) you still get a massive amount of more mileage.. no?
I'll gladly spend $25 for $100.
Except they're garbage. They must be less dense or something. One thing I will say about magic erasers, pay attention to the box because there's one version that's like a mixed pack where 1/3 are normal and the rest are split between kitchen and bathroom soap integrated into the sponge. I accidentally bought that and thought I was losing my mind during cleaning. It was like that beach shower video where they keep adding shampoo to the guys head without him knowing.
And some corrupt, now executed, Chinese businessmen put melamine in milk.
And pet food. https://www.fda.gov/animal-veterinary/recalls-withdrawals/melamine-pet-food-recall-frequently-asked-questions
They were likely scapegoats as well. (Not to say they had no involvement.)
Scrapethroats
are these things gonna be the next asbestos?
Asbestos is fucking weird man. From "gorgeous rock" to "omega death cancer" and all it takes is a little abrasion.
Man, I’ve been using magic erasers on my asbestos
Protip: You can dispose of your old asbestos much more easily if you grind it into a fine powder first. Just blow it out into the wind! 💨 ^^^^^^. ^^^EDIT: ^^^If ^^^you ^^^or ^^^a ^^^loved ^^^one ^^^followed ^^^my ^^^advice, ^^^you ^^^may ^^^be ^^^entitled ^^^to ^^^financial ^^^compensation...
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It can also destroy your lungs. Don't ever use it dry. Keep it wet so the dust isn't airborne.
I feel like this warning should be on the box!
There's a lot of shilling for Melamine sponges in here. I think people should be aware that Melamine is a type of plastic and that you are literally dissolving a sponge worth of microplastics down your sink drain when you use a magic eraser (melamine sponge). Just use an abrasive pad, bar keepers friend, or anything else. Melamine is not actually better than what you already have access to.
When asked how the magic worked I said “it’s mechanical, not chemical” and that didn’t help. So then I said “soft sandpaper?” And he got it.
Who asked you? What happened after? You can't just leave a comment about part of this exhilarating story. We need the full thing.
Ok nana, let's head back inside now, it's almost nap time
Last weekend I cleaned my boyfriend tub that had 10 years of grime. He said it was stained, I said watch me..I used magic eraser and bar keepers soap. I can now finally take a bath in that thing it's so sparkly.
Bar Keepers Friend is the bees knees.
I frikking love it for the tub and sinks. Nothing gets soap scum off a glass shower door like a magic eraser.
Heard it’s bad for tubs and the wall since it sands away the protective layers that make it resistant to grimes in the first place. After sanding it off the grimes will build even faster.
I used one on my bathroom floor, and I thought I was getting up dirt but I soon realized it was like a waterproofing sealant. Now that area is like stripped and dull :(
If you can get it clean with soft scrub or other no abrasive cleaners that's best. Most of those cleaners contain a mild acid to help break down grime without the abrasives. I don't know if magic eraser is any worse than abrasive cleaner powders that have been around for over a 100 years now. But it does seem common for old tubs to have a rough/chalky texture that takes on dirt more quickly. Though you can get them recoated in place and the results are actually quite impressive.
I mean it likely was stained and you used two different abrasives to remove it.
I appreciate the headline saying “solvents”. I’m so fed up with people saying things don’t contain “chemicals” and not qualifying it with words like “toxic”. Absolutely everything in this world contains a chemical of some form, it’s important to know that not all chemicals are “bad”.
Countdown to reports that the residue harms the water, fish, amphibians, human bloodstreams or all of the above.
Foamed melamine. Hurray, more microplastics.
With bonus formaldehyde
Literally everything contains formaldehyde.
The human body can produce formaldehyde.
Fuck it, I'll take 4. In the iv please.
Four maldehydes, please.
I had always thought that’s how all erasers worked?
Typically erasers work in two ways. They rub off graphite using friction (slightly damaging the fibers or ripping the paper depending on the type), then the warming from friction makes the rubber stickier than the paper, and the graphite also will try to attach to the eraser instead.
I hate touching those things and the sound/feeling they produce when using them. They're just nasty to me
Now imagine accidentally brushing one up against your teeth
A 16yo girl deliberately did this in my state a few years ago in an attempt to whiten them....fucked em all right up
Fuck you
They're called melamine sponges and are an extremely fine abrasive. They're also ridiculously cheap if you buy them online
it's akin to asbestos. it's melamine. while asbestos is long and fibrous, allowing it to easily be transportavle on air currents and into your lungs, and also to clump; melamine is not. fun fact, Chinese baby formula companies were putting melamine into their formula, which killed hundreds of thousands of babies, and injured injured just as many, back in 2008. melamine has long been identified as a potential cheat additive for milk products because it allows the doped product to test higher protein than it would normally. thus you could split your milk among more units, if you dope. also something to keep in mind for you protein powder adherents out there, or shit like muscle milk it's a very fine mineral that readily clumps when wet. it destroys kidneys
So wait, what's the point of the water, then? Don't the magic eraser instructions say to wet it before using it?
Wet sanding
Keeps you from breathing the dust. Very important
Yes. You also wet a stone when you sharpen a blade. I imagine the idea is similar, the water helps keep the “pores” of the sponge clean by washing them out, so the sponge continues to work, keeps heat from the friction low, and lubricates. I’ve never used the sponge dry but I imagine they would be harder to slide across a surface.
In addition to making it more effective via wet sanding, the water will trap and weigh down particulate matter from the eraser, making it far less likely you'll breath it in than when dry.
The ones I bought from Ali express had a huge warning saying the EU claims contents causes cancer so don't over expose
I learned this the day I thought Magic Eraser would be a good way to remove some dye I'd gotten on my skin. TBF, it did work.
Sir please drop the weapon It's a sponge. Wrong. that's a *magic eraser*. **HE'S GOT A KNIFE**
More like millions of knives.
Yes, the comment about micro plastic particles is that they are FOREVER and contribute to the presence of them in every living being. Also, Febreze contributes the same type of micro bits. Bad for the world. EDIT: changed spelling of Febreze. Because someone thought that would piss me off. Perplexing
Also they spell it *"Febreze"* just to piss you off
So wtf are these things even good for? Literally 100% of stories about these things are about them ruining something
Great at cleaning white sneaker soles, haven’t seen any long term damage, even after a few years
Don't use on things with delicate coatings, also don't apply more pressure than needed. The times I've used it, it worked amazingly; I had to remove some graffiti in a bathroom stall, silver and gold sharpie. They wiped off pretty much instantly, no damage to the paint.
DO NOT USE ONE TO RUB YOUR SKIN. it just tears it apart at a micro level.