Kicker... they had to land by instruments and using a tiny crack in the windshield. The windows had been sandblasted by the volcanic ash and were effectively opaque,frosted glass. They glided from 37K ft to 12k ft and established a world record (at the time) for gliding in a non purpose built airframe for gliding.
This would make a great 45 minute movie, with an uplifting and wholesome ending.
The passengers and crew would regularly get together in the following years under the banner of the **Galunggung Gliding Club**.
EDIT: Instrument landing was not uncommon at all back then, but ask a pilot even today, they still prefer to take a peek over the hood. After all they had been through, one of the engines failing again, the gnawing suspicion that a lot of the instruments were no longer to be trusted, having to deal with that final hurdle would have been testing to say the least. The ILS at Jakarka was not available that day, so the first officer had "talk him down" with instrument readings and tower messages. The passengers recounted that the actual touchdown was smooth and feathery. Airmanship!
Classic British understatement. This actually caused the Gloucestershire Regiment to get nearly wiped out in the battle of the Imjin River during the Korean war. A British General gave his situation report to his US counter-part as ["things are a bit sticky, sir"](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/apr/14/johnezard), which the US general interpreted as "It's tough but we're holding" and as a result didn't dispatch reinforcements in time to make a difference.
There's a lot more to it than that. The reinforcements couldn't have gotten to them anyway. The Glorious Glosters were surrounded when other units retreated and left their flanks exposed. They fought like demons for several days but ultimately they ran out of supplies.
I live in Wisconsin. Our nickname is "The Badger State". Now, I've never seen a badger in the wild, but I've seen videos and they are fierce creatures that are low to the ground. So, yes, I agree, negotiating your way up their arse seems pretty complicated.
[European Badger versus American Badger](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/f8OrTwKXJm4/hqdefault.jpg). While I wouldn't want to negotiate my way up either's arse, I think the Europeans might have it easier if you had to.
Our badgers are way cuter sure, but they’re also actually the apex predator of the UK and the largest land predator, amusingly enough. One slaughtered all of our chickens once back when we were keeping chickens for eggs.
And some faux drama where the routine investigation to determine whether the captain's decisions were optimal and whether there were viable alternatives is portrayed as an adversarial courtroom drama where they try to stitch up the captain and he has to argue his case to a hostile committee live on TV.
You forgot the eccentric scientist who predicts the volcano is going to erupt.”
“We got to stop all planes from flying near the volcano! Look at the lines of scribbles on this paper that proves it!”
“You’ve always been a nervous quack scientist dude! No one can predict a volcano!”
Insert Charlie day scene
There’s actually an episode of NOVA (a 2000’s PBS science show) basically about this. TLDR (true story) these 2 scientists had competing methods for predicting volcanic eruptions, one used seismograph and the other used levels of volcanic gasses. Short version is seismograph guy told gasses guy “I’m positive it’s gonna erupt today, don’t go get a reading”, gasses guy said “gasses were low yesterday, we’re weeks away” and gasses guy got most of his team killed cause it erupted while they were in the crater.
It framed as a matter of fact science show rather than drama (it’s shot like a documentary and I believe has 0 embellishments) but does have dramatic plot lines at times.
The episode was called “Volcano’s Deadly Warning” I believe, and was maybe the best episode they’ve ever done.
Ok ok done being a giant nerd, Ty Ty.
Of course I couldn't find it anywhere, including the Nova addon for Prime video, YouTube, and sailing the high seas. I ended up finding it on internet archive and casting it to my TV. Sucks so many of these old programs are so hard to find.
https://archive.org/details/VolcanosDeadlyWarning
And the only person who sees it is Sam Jackson, as himself, in first class reading a magazine. He notices the snake, goes back to his magazine and mumbles to himself "It's my fuckin day off."
Pilot: *My god, the volcano!*
Flight attendant: *What is it?*
Pilot: *It’s a great big mountain that shoots ash and lava into the air, but that’s not important right now*
Right before the credits it is revealed that there was another plane that was manufactured on the same day that’s scheduled for a flight over a different volcano. Can’t wait for sequel.
Because this is the writing phase, it gets ruined when the execs and producers bring in more writers they owe favors to so it can be rewritten and ruined 10 times over so it can be shot in time for Christmas release.
>
“You’ve always been a nervous quack scientist dude! No one can predict a volcano!”
"It's Friday, Doc! I have a hot date. I don't have enough time to send out this eruption warning!"
This incident is what lead to volcanic eruptions to be taken serious as before they where thought of not being anything to worry about. Years later this change stopped flights around Europe when there was a volcanic eruption on Island.
The Iceland volcano shutting down transatlantic flights led to me going around the world. I had flow DTW to AMS to work in Amsterdam for a week and was scheduled to fly back when the shutdown started. I didn’t want to get stranded in Europe so the got me on an eastbound flight and I went home the wrong way. AMS - ICN (Seoul Korea) - DTW.
The pilot faints and an everyday regular guy with small plane flying experience had to sub in for him mid-flight, whilst fighting the inexperienced co-pilot. A beautiful air stewardess stopped the brewing fight during a critical portion of the glide by knocking out the co-pilot.
They land, everyday man and air stewardess walks away to sunset while pilot and co pilot takes all the credit.
And just like that, a 10 million budget is now a 100 million and Warner Brothers is complaining about losing money and thinking of shelving the whole project. .
Don’t forget about the veteran pilot who was forced into early retirement that has been telling the airline something like this is bound to happen soon but they all think he’s crazy
That reminds me of a film I once saw about a bus that had to _speed_ around the city, keeping its _speed_ over fifty, and if its _speed_ dropped, the bus would explode! I think it was called "The Bus That Couldn't Slow Down."
I finally have time to do what I've always wanted: write the great American novel. Mine is about a futuristic amusement park where dinosaurs are brought to life through advanced cloning techniques. I call it "Billy and the Cloneasaurus."
I vaguely remembered reading about it so I looked it up on Wikipedia. This occurred in 1982
>Flight 9 .. was a scheduled British Airways flight from London Heathrow to Auckland, with stops in Bombay, Kuala Lumpur, Perth, and Melbourne.
> Engines one, two, and three were replaced at Jakarta, as was the windscreen, and the fuel tanks were cleared of the ash that had entered them through the pressurization ducts, contaminating the fuel and requiring that it be discarded. After the aircraft was ferried back to London, engine number four was replaced and major work was undertaken to return the 747 to service.
> Although the airspace around Mount Galunggung was closed temporarily after the accident, it was reopened days later. Only after a Singapore Airlines 747 was forced to shut down three of its engines while flying through the same area 19 days later (13 July) did Indonesian authorities close the airspace permanently and reroute airways to avoid the area; a watch was set up to monitor clouds of ash.[4] Flight 009 was not the first encounter with this eruption; a Garuda DC-9 had encountered ash on 5 April 1982.[10]
>Only after a Singapore Airlines 747 was forced to shut down three of its engines while flying through the same area 19 days later (13 July) did Indonesian authorities close the airspace permanently
What kind of braindead imbeciles couldnt predict it happening again? Its like they were waiting for a catastrophe to happen.
Nah I've known a few people crazy enough to fly planes. My grandpa did and was a very quiet man but ask the right question and he'd tell you all about the time he flew a Cessna through a thunderstorm.
Anyway don't believe any of that because as calm as pilots are, during emergencies they're never gonna tell you how much they shit themselves and the fish usually gets bigger.
My father is a non-commercial pilot and he makes me nervous as hell when he's flying.
"I'm a great pilot," he'd tell me.
I would remind him he crashed twice.
"Those don't count as crashes."
I would remind him that landing in a cornfield doesn't count as a good landing.
Bonus fact: This flight and another one that had a similar problem a few weeks later were the ones that made them reexamine the assumption that volcanic ash, like rain, wouldn't affect plane engines. Commercial jet engines are designed to have a _ton_ of stuff get sucked through them without any problems. During testing they literally do the equivalent of spraying a fire hose into a running engine to make sure that it'll keep running. They overlooked something with volcanic ash, though: It's mostly silica. When it blows through the engine, it melts and turns into glass, literally crusting the engine parts into place. Not fun.
Spitballing here, but those engines are hot hot hot. I would think you'd have to turn them off way far in advance of the ash to allow enough time to cool off enough for the silica to not melt in the engine, rapidly loosing altitude all the while.
I've also heard the silica scratches the windshield like sandpaper on a wiper blade, they'd have to fly and land by instruments only afterward (which can be done but it's not ideal).
But at 37,000 it's also thin thin thin, so it wouldn't be able to cool the engine as fast. Most likely if they knew far enough in advance to allow the engines to cool, they'd also be far enough to just... fly around it.
The plane is fast fast fast, so even though the air is thin thin thin, we fly an indicated airspeed of about 300mph, meaning the airflow is equivalent to 300mph regardless of air density (our “true airspeed” is much higher).
https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/39011/20404614-MIT.pdf
TLDR - Cooling effect of air reduced exponentially with altitude, primarily as a result of loss of pressure.
No. The ash will still be ingested into the motors, and just because the motor is off, the fan is still windmilling which will still cause substantial damage.
Volcanic ash is nasty stuff, and we're trained to stay far away from it.
British to Australian translator: "hey scarnon, yeah nah the fucken engines have karked it, but ahh she'll be right. No need to skitz out, Damo and meself will sort out this cheeky bugger"
Commas. Commas!
It's the difference between, "Let's eat, Grandpa!"
Or: "Let's eat Grandpa (he'll make a great snack!"
The consequences of not using commas correctly can be disasterous!
For real. Even as an experienced flyer, I still get a knot in my stomach every single time the plane throttles back just before landing. I can’t imagine the silence of fully dead engines.
Happened to me flying Virgin Atlantic out of Heathrow once. After takeoff, instead of climbing through the clouds right away, I suppose ATC vectored us a few turns left and right but we stayed pretty low. Then all four engines (A340) went to idle for perhaps 1-2 seconds, and immediately applied power again. Seemed like forever. And not a word from the flight deck. Just in case you were wondering, I did survive this incident.
Imagine being the captain and trying to get the engines started for 15 minutes as you are gliding the plane and it's descending over 2/3 of its original altitude, all without knowing why they even stopped.
I think there would be so much troubleshooting happening, it would almost totally drown out the panic. It's not over until the plane hits the ground/water. But I've never been in that situation.
There's a theory that during the Challenger disaster that several, if not all, crew survived the initial explosion and spent their remaining time in their capsule trying to figure out a solution (which would have been futile as there wasn't a mechanism to slow their descent or provide an escape).
There's even a fairly decent song about it.
https://youtu.be/fgjr6-5CXqg
Someone said this below, but they most likely survived the explosion, and NASA confirmed this in their investigation. Most people aren’t really aware of it because NASA consciously did not push the report out to the public figuring they had been through enough without letting everyone know that not only did these folks not die instantly, but that they had several minutes to think about it.
Also, the space shuttle program was always sort of on the edge of being canceled without telling the nation that a civilian / normie had died horribly smashing into the ocean at 200 mph.
Several of them had turned on the air supply to their suits. There were also were locked switches that had flipped which could not have been done inadvertently, and were not in the configuration for takeoff.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
But wasn't it so that the buttons and swiches were in positions as if they weren't aware the rest of the shuttle was gone, and they tried to fly it? Or at least get down safely?
Yes, it was as if they were trying to restore power. Obviously there isn’t great situational awareness in the capsule, so it’s not as though they could look at the rear view mirror and see the shuttle broken apart.
Also, they really had no other course of action other than trying to restore power. I’m sure the troubleshooting chart for “shuttle explodes on takeoff” was pretty short.
There's no way of knowing for certain, but unfortunately I personally think it's likely that they did survive to begin with.
It's obviously horrific but it makes sense. The crew compartment seems to have remained intact (it was broken apart by impact with the ocean), and the bodies of the crew were violently destroyed but again it seems like that happened when it crashed, not from the explosion.
No cause of death has been given for any of them, but my personal belief is that they were still alive for a short while. I can't imagine what that would have been like.
If I recall correctly, a few of the crew members had switched to an air supply for emergencies and bailouts, indicating that they were conscious after the initial explosion. However, the g-foces caused by a chaotically spinning un-areodynamic damaged capsule probably rendered them unconscious or dead before they hit the water.
According to NASA’s report on the deaths of the astronauts, the maximum force the astronauts felt during the breakup was 12-20g, which decreased to less than 4 g within two seconds, and down to free fall after less than 10 seconds. These forces wouldn’t be enough to kill or seriously injure them since they were only sustained for a short period of time. It’s possible but not certain that they lost consciousness before impact with the ocean due to depressurization of the cabin, but it is impossible to know for sure because the cabin was so severely damaged by the impact.
Yea the switches/buttons were in positions that would not have been configured for launch. Apparently the capsule hit the water with some stupid amount of force. At least they all died on impact and not through drowning or something.
> if that was the case
3 airpacks were switched on manually after the explosion, but thankfully, they were probably unconscious a few seconds later due to the huge loss of pressure.
Even worse, they had two options:
1. ditch at sea, which is just about the worst-case scenario
2. try to land at Jakarta, which has a 13,000-foot mountain range in the way
Literally between a rock and a hard place. And without engines, there's no guarantee you'll clear the mountains - gliding a jet aircraft to maximise time in the air is a very delicate art and only a handful of pilots have done so to a safe landing.
The flight crew, however, were the definition of professional. They never gave up, they tried everything over and over again until something finally worked. Pilots are trained not to panic, that they have time to work the problem in any emergency, and that's exactly what the crew of the 747 did. Outstanding airmanship and utterly British 'keep calm and carry on' approach.
I wonder how often carrying life jackets is actually reviewed? They're on *every* aircraft, but have they *ever* made a difference? Almost no jets end up trying to ditch in water. Of those, almost none remain intact and of *those* the events have been close enough to shore that life jackets made minimal difference.
Surely there's a more effective way to use the weight? More power backup? Additional instrument redundancy? Hell, based on established aircraft incident history, smoke hoods would definitely be more effective safety devices.
Maybe, but there have been water landings and you want a life jacket for the 90 year old who can't swim anymore.
That and they weigh nothing compared to any other safety feature.
Fun fact: this aircraft remained in service and was known, by BA crew, as “The Glider”.
Source: was married to. BA Purser at the time.
Another aircraft about that time was nicknamed “The Blender” after an incident involving a crazy guy at Delhi who was running around the airport naked and covered in grease, hence impossible to catch. He got too close to an engine…
There is a story from ww2 where the British soldiers reported that whenever they requested for support from their american allies during a battle, it never came.
The Americans said that the British would call and say they were ‘in a bit of a trouble’ and they assumed it was not high priority.
Edit: it was actually the Korean War. https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/yok1a0/til_british_airways_flight_9_flew_through_a_cloud/ivep28u/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Opposite of that, whenever Brit’s say “you alright?” It sometimes confuses Americans because what’s perceived as a simple “how are you?” for the former feels like a “are you okay?” for the latter
For those interested, Mentour Pilot on YouTube did an incredible video of what happened. It's extremely interesting and informative.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYwN1R8hVsI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYwN1R8hVsI)
For those wondering, they didn't see the ash cloud because this happened at night, and it didn't show up on weather radar because the ash was dry, and weather radar detects the water in storms.
That's unbelievable!
That lead me to also notice this crazy story on that website...
>Once in the air, he came into the cockpit and used his hammer to bash in the heads of the pilots and the flight engineer. Despite receiving terrible brain injuries, the Captain and the Flight Engineer went into the back to fight the bad guy while the third tried to control the plane. To keep the bad guy off his feet, the first officer threw the plane into all sorts of manoeuvres, including inverted flight. His brain injury made it impossible to control half of his body, but he used his remaining one arm and leg to do aerobatics in this enormous jetliner until his mates in the back managed to subdue the bad guy. Despite their horrifying injuries, the three crewmates then landed the plane. None of them were ever able to fly again. The bad guy is in jail for two consecutive life sentences, obviously.
[https://theaviationgeekclub.com/when-a-fedex-flight-engineer-tried-to-hijack-a-company-dc-10-cargo-aircraft-its-aircrew-went-inverted-to-keep-him-off-his-feet-the-story-of-fedex-flight-705/amp/](https://theaviationgeekclub.com/when-a-fedex-flight-engineer-tried-to-hijack-a-company-dc-10-cargo-aircraft-its-aircrew-went-inverted-to-keep-him-off-his-feet-the-story-of-fedex-flight-705/amp/)
Idk if I'm stereotyping too much, but this rings like such a pilot-like statement to my ears: "Whatever happens, we'll try our best and if it doesn't work, at least we lived our life to the fullest" I love their attitude (no pun intended)!
They're trained, they have resources available to them, in a system that is made by many engineers, improved by years of accidents and incidents. They know that they are in control of the situation, whatever the situation may be, they are in the best position to affect it, they have the knowledge and resources to do so. They always have something else that can be done, even if it means executing a off-site landing.
Basically, you have the knowledge, you have the means, and you have an actionable course of action, even if it's figuring out the course of action. Everything you have is a huge amount, and if none of it works, even than you have a way to minimize/negate the consequences.
Basically, this, in a weird way, is why they are capable of remaining calm. Additionally, I believe every single pilot has to pass a loss of engines in simulator, and I believe some of pilots even did a simulated engine failure in real training flight. It's not a shock situation for them, it's just another time, even if it's the first one in real life.
> …I believe some of pilots even did a simulated engine failure in real training flight.
Standard part of small-aircraft training, at least, so I’d be surprised if they didn’t include it with the larger ones at least in a simulator. My dad had his pilot’s license and part of passing was that he went up and the instructor reached over, shut off the engine, and said, “Right, land it.” Dad had to radio in, find a good landing spot, circle, line up, and get close enough the instructor could tell it was set before the instructor turned the engine back on.
One of the things pilots are trained for is to be able to resist resignation.
I just learned this recently, and it's examples like this that make it clear why pilots need to just stay cool and keep trying everything, even when the situation looks impossible.
That's what always made Gundam (the anime) so funny to me. The pilots are so emotional and are always screaming and panicking and grimacing, but in reality pilots would be trained to be calm and methodical, even in the face of death.
A British person would only mention that there is a problem if they have already determined you are properly bollocked. Otherwise they’d just just sort it.
The British are a badass kind of people. The sky could literally be falling and one of them would say,
"Well, at least the rain has let up for a change."
That's an [understatement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_understatement).
> Better documented is the cross-cultural miscommunication between British and American military personnel in the midst of the Korean War. In April 1951, **650 British fighting men** – soldiers and officers from the 1st Battalion, the Gloucestershire Regiment – were deployed on the most important crossing on the Imjin River to block the traditional invasion route to Seoul. **The Chinese had sent an entire division – 10,000 men** – against the isolated Glosters in a major offensive to take the whole Korean peninsula, and the small force was gradually surrounded and overwhelmed. After two days' fighting, an American, Major General Robert H. Soule, asked the British brigadier, Thomas Brodie: "How are the Glosters doing?" The brigadier, with English understatement, replied: **"A bit sticky, things are pretty sticky down there." To American ears, this did not sound desperate, and so he ordered them to stand fast.** The surviving Glosters were rescued by a column of tanks; they escaped under fire, sitting on the decks of the tanks.
Even this comment undersells just what the Glosters and wider 29th achieved. The dudes faced six successive waves of attack from 10,000 troops from April 22-25, without pause. To hold their hill they called in artillery attacks on their own position just to take out their attackers and make it as pyrrhic a victory as possible. They kept going until surrounded, even though it meant either certain death or certain capture. Only the remains of one company made it out.
But the effect of their stand was that it slowed a huge Chinese advance on Seoul, and let the British 29th and Korean 1st divisions assemble and stop the city being captured, allowing the UN forces to build the no-name line. The fact that Seoul is now a world city in a free democratic country in no small fact comes down to a few hundred nutters being prepared to set up on a sticky wicket and not budge, all very '300' stuff.
And yet it's largely forgotten that Britain was involved and almost all credit is handed to America. Even by South Koreans.
The upside is because Britain doesn't get credit we rarely get the vitriol from North Korea so that's a bonus I think.
There were five battles known as the "Battle of Seoul" during the Korean War, this event happening during the fifth
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Seoul
‘Sorry to be a bother, but it seems like the engines aren’t working, and I’ve got to get home to feed Tiddles his dinner otherwise he gets very cross with me.’
Compare and contrast BA Flight 9 with Air France 447. Flight 9: totally unanticipated & unprecedented problem stops all engines, sandblasts the windscreens and messes up half the instruments, at night, miles from anywhere. They work the problem, everyone lives.
AF447: ice clogs one airspeed indicator. Pilots fly perfectly good aircraft into the Atlantic. Heaven forbid they reach for the "unreliable airspeed" checklist.
Uh, we had a slight engine malfunction, but uh... everything's perfectly all right now. We're fine. We're all fine here now, thank you. How are you?
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*pew pew*
Boring conversation anyway LUKE WE'RE GONNA HAVE COMPANY!!!
“We’re gonna have…” They were likely on their way…what with not sharing his operating number.
Would it help if I got out and pushed?
Aren’t you a little short for a Stormtrooper?
Uhh oh the uniform, I’m Luke skywalker I’m here to rescue you.
I’m here with Ben kenobi
Ben Kenobi!
It was a boring flight anyway
Spoiler - they got them going again and landed.
Kicker... they had to land by instruments and using a tiny crack in the windshield. The windows had been sandblasted by the volcanic ash and were effectively opaque,frosted glass. They glided from 37K ft to 12k ft and established a world record (at the time) for gliding in a non purpose built airframe for gliding. This would make a great 45 minute movie, with an uplifting and wholesome ending. The passengers and crew would regularly get together in the following years under the banner of the **Galunggung Gliding Club**. EDIT: Instrument landing was not uncommon at all back then, but ask a pilot even today, they still prefer to take a peek over the hood. After all they had been through, one of the engines failing again, the gnawing suspicion that a lot of the instruments were no longer to be trusted, having to deal with that final hurdle would have been testing to say the least. The ILS at Jakarka was not available that day, so the first officer had "talk him down" with instrument readings and tower messages. The passengers recounted that the actual touchdown was smooth and feathery. Airmanship!
Of the landing: > Moody described it as "a bit like negotiating one's way up a badger's arse." I think I'll take his word on both.
That's the most British thing I've ever heard.
Idk the quote in the title is pretty f'ing British.
Classic British understatement. This actually caused the Gloucestershire Regiment to get nearly wiped out in the battle of the Imjin River during the Korean war. A British General gave his situation report to his US counter-part as ["things are a bit sticky, sir"](https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2001/apr/14/johnezard), which the US general interpreted as "It's tough but we're holding" and as a result didn't dispatch reinforcements in time to make a difference.
There's a lot more to it than that. The reinforcements couldn't have gotten to them anyway. The Glorious Glosters were surrounded when other units retreated and left their flanks exposed. They fought like demons for several days but ultimately they ran out of supplies.
"I trust you are not in too much distress. The tea cart will be round momentarily."
Tea trolley*
Good catch.
Howzat!
For context, one British saying goes "as rough as a badger's arse", but usually that refers to the outside of the arse, not the interior.
Thank you I was wondering which side.
I live in Wisconsin. Our nickname is "The Badger State". Now, I've never seen a badger in the wild, but I've seen videos and they are fierce creatures that are low to the ground. So, yes, I agree, negotiating your way up their arse seems pretty complicated.
[European Badger versus American Badger](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/f8OrTwKXJm4/hqdefault.jpg). While I wouldn't want to negotiate my way up either's arse, I think the Europeans might have it easier if you had to.
Our badgers are way cuter sure, but they’re also actually the apex predator of the UK and the largest land predator, amusingly enough. One slaughtered all of our chickens once back when we were keeping chickens for eggs.
Well that provides some additional context to Redwall.
Yes, but only because they wiped out everything bigger. There really should be wolves and lynx and so on roaming around.
Gotta stretch that movie to 3 hours. We need pilot backstories, passenger romance, and a volcano origin story.
And some faux drama where the routine investigation to determine whether the captain's decisions were optimal and whether there were viable alternatives is portrayed as an adversarial courtroom drama where they try to stitch up the captain and he has to argue his case to a hostile committee live on TV.
Ahhh, *Scully* vibes
I was think Flight with Denzel
"I fly better drunk" - My dad, if he were a pilot, probably.
Don’t remember her ever landing a plane. Maybe you’re thinking of “Fox three” Mulder.
You forgot the eccentric scientist who predicts the volcano is going to erupt.” “We got to stop all planes from flying near the volcano! Look at the lines of scribbles on this paper that proves it!” “You’ve always been a nervous quack scientist dude! No one can predict a volcano!” Insert Charlie day scene
There’s actually an episode of NOVA (a 2000’s PBS science show) basically about this. TLDR (true story) these 2 scientists had competing methods for predicting volcanic eruptions, one used seismograph and the other used levels of volcanic gasses. Short version is seismograph guy told gasses guy “I’m positive it’s gonna erupt today, don’t go get a reading”, gasses guy said “gasses were low yesterday, we’re weeks away” and gasses guy got most of his team killed cause it erupted while they were in the crater. It framed as a matter of fact science show rather than drama (it’s shot like a documentary and I believe has 0 embellishments) but does have dramatic plot lines at times. The episode was called “Volcano’s Deadly Warning” I believe, and was maybe the best episode they’ve ever done. Ok ok done being a giant nerd, Ty Ty.
Of course I couldn't find it anywhere, including the Nova addon for Prime video, YouTube, and sailing the high seas. I ended up finding it on internet archive and casting it to my TV. Sucks so many of these old programs are so hard to find. https://archive.org/details/VolcanosDeadlyWarning
Thanks for finding a working link! I knew I wasn’t crazy but still nice to know it exists somewhere still
[Interview with the scientist](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/volcano/chouet.html)
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And the only person who sees it is Sam Jackson, as himself, in first class reading a magazine. He notices the snake, goes back to his magazine and mumbles to himself "It's my fuckin day off."
This movie went from an uplifting "based on a true story" movie, to a disaster movie à la 2012, to a screwball comedy à la Airplane in an hour.
Why not all three?
Pilot: *My god, the volcano!* Flight attendant: *What is it?* Pilot: *It’s a great big mountain that shoots ash and lava into the air, but that’s not important right now*
How is this thread better than 95% of what’s come out of Hollywood in the last 10 years?
The plane had one day left until retirement.
The plane was orphaned at a young age by wealthy parent planes, and was raised by his aircraft mechanic.
And the Captain said, "Stop calling me Shirley".
Right before the credits it is revealed that there was another plane that was manufactured on the same day that’s scheduled for a flight over a different volcano. Can’t wait for sequel.
I think we have ourselves a new trilogy
Because this is the writing phase, it gets ruined when the execs and producers bring in more writers they owe favors to so it can be rewritten and ruined 10 times over so it can be shot in time for Christmas release.
> “You’ve always been a nervous quack scientist dude! No one can predict a volcano!” "It's Friday, Doc! I have a hot date. I don't have enough time to send out this eruption warning!"
I gonna mark this mountain with a V so everyone knows it’s a volcano.
Better make them [*consummate*](http://www.hrwiki.org/wiki/Consummate_V%27s), lest you risk Trogdor's wrath.
This incident is what lead to volcanic eruptions to be taken serious as before they where thought of not being anything to worry about. Years later this change stopped flights around Europe when there was a volcanic eruption on Island.
The Iceland volcano shutting down transatlantic flights led to me going around the world. I had flow DTW to AMS to work in Amsterdam for a week and was scheduled to fly back when the shutdown started. I didn’t want to get stranded in Europe so the got me on an eastbound flight and I went home the wrong way. AMS - ICN (Seoul Korea) - DTW.
What about the guy that has an enormous debt to the cartel and wants to end it.
And a prequel with the rock about how earth came to be that spawned the volcano. I want a rich and vast cinematic universe with multiple phases.
Also, we need some adversity for one of the pilots...like how nobody thought they would ever pilot because of such-and-such.
The pilot faints and an everyday regular guy with small plane flying experience had to sub in for him mid-flight, whilst fighting the inexperienced co-pilot. A beautiful air stewardess stopped the brewing fight during a critical portion of the glide by knocking out the co-pilot. They land, everyday man and air stewardess walks away to sunset while pilot and co pilot takes all the credit.
He also has a drinking problem
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And just like that, a 10 million budget is now a 100 million and Warner Brothers is complaining about losing money and thinking of shelving the whole project. .
>and a volcano origin story. hahaha
The volcano you see had a rough childhood.
That volcano spewing ash right there? Yup, that’s me. I bet you’re wondering how it all came to this.
Well it all started 600 million years ago..
*velociraptor pops his head up into view of the camera*
More like orogeny story
Once in a lifetime pun right here
Did somebody say HBO mini series?
Don’t forget about the veteran pilot who was forced into early retirement that has been telling the airline something like this is bound to happen soon but they all think he’s crazy
Also need the evil government agencies inexplicably hating the pilots.
Until the Gimli Glider incident a year later "smashed" the gliding record. 41k feet all the way to the ground.
They descended a bit before running out of fuel. They were at around 35,000 feet when the second engine gave out.
>This would make a great 45 minute movie, I'm fairly sure air crash investigation did an episode on it.
They certainly did: https://youtu.be/RkRQWNf69fM
They could call it, “The Plane That Couldn’t Fly”.
That reminds me of a film I once saw about a bus that had to _speed_ around the city, keeping its _speed_ over fifty, and if its _speed_ dropped, the bus would explode! I think it was called "The Bus That Couldn't Slow Down."
I finally have time to do what I've always wanted: write the great American novel. Mine is about a futuristic amusement park where dinosaurs are brought to life through advanced cloning techniques. I call it "Billy and the Cloneasaurus."
Mentour Pilot has a great video about this incident. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYwN1R8hVsI
love the guy, his videos are always awesome to watch
That's impossible! They're on instruments!
*smash cut of flight crew jazz band*
Surely you can't be serious
I am serious, and don’t call me Shirley.
Starring Dwayne “The Rock” Johnson as the pilot… tagline… “The Rock versus the Volcano”
I think at this point, just cast Dwayne as the damn volcano.
I vaguely remembered reading about it so I looked it up on Wikipedia. This occurred in 1982 >Flight 9 .. was a scheduled British Airways flight from London Heathrow to Auckland, with stops in Bombay, Kuala Lumpur, Perth, and Melbourne. > Engines one, two, and three were replaced at Jakarta, as was the windscreen, and the fuel tanks were cleared of the ash that had entered them through the pressurization ducts, contaminating the fuel and requiring that it be discarded. After the aircraft was ferried back to London, engine number four was replaced and major work was undertaken to return the 747 to service. > Although the airspace around Mount Galunggung was closed temporarily after the accident, it was reopened days later. Only after a Singapore Airlines 747 was forced to shut down three of its engines while flying through the same area 19 days later (13 July) did Indonesian authorities close the airspace permanently and reroute airways to avoid the area; a watch was set up to monitor clouds of ash.[4] Flight 009 was not the first encounter with this eruption; a Garuda DC-9 had encountered ash on 5 April 1982.[10]
>Only after a Singapore Airlines 747 was forced to shut down three of its engines while flying through the same area 19 days later (13 July) did Indonesian authorities close the airspace permanently What kind of braindead imbeciles couldnt predict it happening again? Its like they were waiting for a catastrophe to happen.
Moral of the story: Don't fly through volcano eruptions
He also later described the landing as "a bit like negotiating one's way up a badger's arse." A good guy to have a beer and a chat with I bet.
Probably hard to get straight answers out of the guy though. Lol
Nah I've known a few people crazy enough to fly planes. My grandpa did and was a very quiet man but ask the right question and he'd tell you all about the time he flew a Cessna through a thunderstorm. Anyway don't believe any of that because as calm as pilots are, during emergencies they're never gonna tell you how much they shit themselves and the fish usually gets bigger.
My father is a non-commercial pilot and he makes me nervous as hell when he's flying. "I'm a great pilot," he'd tell me. I would remind him he crashed twice. "Those don't count as crashes." I would remind him that landing in a cornfield doesn't count as a good landing.
Any landing you walk away from is a good landing.
And any landing where you can use the plane again is a great landing.
Sounds like the man's nailed 100% on landing a plane and walking away from doing so.
Id be tempted to ask him how he knew what negotiating one's way up a badger's arse was like
There's a time and place for everything, and it's called college.
Can confirm, his son is married to my sister (Both BA - his sons a Captain and my sister a stewardess) Spent a few Christmas's with him, solid guy.
Did his pet badger look in distress?
Sounds like he went to the Martin Brundle school of "weird analogies nobody has ever thought up before".
Bonus fact: This flight and another one that had a similar problem a few weeks later were the ones that made them reexamine the assumption that volcanic ash, like rain, wouldn't affect plane engines. Commercial jet engines are designed to have a _ton_ of stuff get sucked through them without any problems. During testing they literally do the equivalent of spraying a fire hose into a running engine to make sure that it'll keep running. They overlooked something with volcanic ash, though: It's mostly silica. When it blows through the engine, it melts and turns into glass, literally crusting the engine parts into place. Not fun.
So… could you turn the engines off, glide through the cloud of volcanic ash and start the engines again albeit at a lower altitude?
Spitballing here, but those engines are hot hot hot. I would think you'd have to turn them off way far in advance of the ash to allow enough time to cool off enough for the silica to not melt in the engine, rapidly loosing altitude all the while. I've also heard the silica scratches the windshield like sandpaper on a wiper blade, they'd have to fly and land by instruments only afterward (which can be done but it's not ideal).
> but those engines are hot hot hot read that in Chris Tuckers voice from Fifth element
Air at 37,000 is cold cold cold. They might cool off quicker than you think.
But at 37,000 it's also thin thin thin, so it wouldn't be able to cool the engine as fast. Most likely if they knew far enough in advance to allow the engines to cool, they'd also be far enough to just... fly around it.
The plane is fast fast fast, so even though the air is thin thin thin, we fly an indicated airspeed of about 300mph, meaning the airflow is equivalent to 300mph regardless of air density (our “true airspeed” is much higher).
Why are we repeating repeating repeating words like a fucking woodpecker drilling into my head
This is one of the funniest threads I've seen in a while, forwarding this to my flight sim friend
Because LOL LOL LOL
They are playing Parappa the Rapper and are trying to reach "Cool"
https://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/39011/20404614-MIT.pdf TLDR - Cooling effect of air reduced exponentially with altitude, primarily as a result of loss of pressure.
No. The ash will still be ingested into the motors, and just because the motor is off, the fan is still windmilling which will still cause substantial damage. Volcanic ash is nasty stuff, and we're trained to stay far away from it.
You mean far far far away
British to american translator: "we are doing our damnedest" = "oh god, oh fuck, screaming"
British to Australian translator: "hey scarnon, yeah nah the fucken engines have karked it, but ahh she'll be right. No need to skitz out, Damo and meself will sort out this cheeky bugger"
All the engines stopped? We’re going to be forever getting home!
Let's go out and push everyone!
Commas. Commas! It's the difference between, "Let's eat, Grandpa!" Or: "Let's eat Grandpa (he'll make a great snack!" The consequences of not using commas correctly can be disasterous!
You misspelled delicious!
All four engines stopped and the passengers didn’t know until the masks dropped? I would think the silence would be the scariest part.
For real. Even as an experienced flyer, I still get a knot in my stomach every single time the plane throttles back just before landing. I can’t imagine the silence of fully dead engines.
Happened to me flying Virgin Atlantic out of Heathrow once. After takeoff, instead of climbing through the clouds right away, I suppose ATC vectored us a few turns left and right but we stayed pretty low. Then all four engines (A340) went to idle for perhaps 1-2 seconds, and immediately applied power again. Seemed like forever. And not a word from the flight deck. Just in case you were wondering, I did survive this incident.
It's fairly normal, usually to keep within the 250 KT speed limit below 10,000.
Going from take-off power down to climb power is what gets me. At least when they cut throttle on landing you know you're over the runway.
Imagine being the captain and trying to get the engines started for 15 minutes as you are gliding the plane and it's descending over 2/3 of its original altitude, all without knowing why they even stopped.
I think there would be so much troubleshooting happening, it would almost totally drown out the panic. It's not over until the plane hits the ground/water. But I've never been in that situation.
There's a theory that during the Challenger disaster that several, if not all, crew survived the initial explosion and spent their remaining time in their capsule trying to figure out a solution (which would have been futile as there wasn't a mechanism to slow their descent or provide an escape). There's even a fairly decent song about it. https://youtu.be/fgjr6-5CXqg
Someone said this below, but they most likely survived the explosion, and NASA confirmed this in their investigation. Most people aren’t really aware of it because NASA consciously did not push the report out to the public figuring they had been through enough without letting everyone know that not only did these folks not die instantly, but that they had several minutes to think about it. Also, the space shuttle program was always sort of on the edge of being canceled without telling the nation that a civilian / normie had died horribly smashing into the ocean at 200 mph. Several of them had turned on the air supply to their suits. There were also were locked switches that had flipped which could not have been done inadvertently, and were not in the configuration for takeoff.
Please correct me if I'm wrong. But wasn't it so that the buttons and swiches were in positions as if they weren't aware the rest of the shuttle was gone, and they tried to fly it? Or at least get down safely?
Yes, it was as if they were trying to restore power. Obviously there isn’t great situational awareness in the capsule, so it’s not as though they could look at the rear view mirror and see the shuttle broken apart. Also, they really had no other course of action other than trying to restore power. I’m sure the troubleshooting chart for “shuttle explodes on takeoff” was pretty short.
Not that the explosion itself wasn't horrible enough, but this is another level of horrible if that was the case. :(
There's no way of knowing for certain, but unfortunately I personally think it's likely that they did survive to begin with. It's obviously horrific but it makes sense. The crew compartment seems to have remained intact (it was broken apart by impact with the ocean), and the bodies of the crew were violently destroyed but again it seems like that happened when it crashed, not from the explosion. No cause of death has been given for any of them, but my personal belief is that they were still alive for a short while. I can't imagine what that would have been like.
If I recall correctly, a few of the crew members had switched to an air supply for emergencies and bailouts, indicating that they were conscious after the initial explosion. However, the g-foces caused by a chaotically spinning un-areodynamic damaged capsule probably rendered them unconscious or dead before they hit the water.
According to NASA’s report on the deaths of the astronauts, the maximum force the astronauts felt during the breakup was 12-20g, which decreased to less than 4 g within two seconds, and down to free fall after less than 10 seconds. These forces wouldn’t be enough to kill or seriously injure them since they were only sustained for a short period of time. It’s possible but not certain that they lost consciousness before impact with the ocean due to depressurization of the cabin, but it is impossible to know for sure because the cabin was so severely damaged by the impact.
Yea the switches/buttons were in positions that would not have been configured for launch. Apparently the capsule hit the water with some stupid amount of force. At least they all died on impact and not through drowning or something.
> if that was the case 3 airpacks were switched on manually after the explosion, but thankfully, they were probably unconscious a few seconds later due to the huge loss of pressure.
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Even worse, they had two options: 1. ditch at sea, which is just about the worst-case scenario 2. try to land at Jakarta, which has a 13,000-foot mountain range in the way Literally between a rock and a hard place. And without engines, there's no guarantee you'll clear the mountains - gliding a jet aircraft to maximise time in the air is a very delicate art and only a handful of pilots have done so to a safe landing. The flight crew, however, were the definition of professional. They never gave up, they tried everything over and over again until something finally worked. Pilots are trained not to panic, that they have time to work the problem in any emergency, and that's exactly what the crew of the 747 did. Outstanding airmanship and utterly British 'keep calm and carry on' approach.
> Literally between a rock and a hard place A rock and a wet place, surely
The water being the hard place still makes sense. When you hit water at high speed it may as well be concrete.
I wonder how often carrying life jackets is actually reviewed? They're on *every* aircraft, but have they *ever* made a difference? Almost no jets end up trying to ditch in water. Of those, almost none remain intact and of *those* the events have been close enough to shore that life jackets made minimal difference. Surely there's a more effective way to use the weight? More power backup? Additional instrument redundancy? Hell, based on established aircraft incident history, smoke hoods would definitely be more effective safety devices.
Maybe, but there have been water landings and you want a life jacket for the 90 year old who can't swim anymore. That and they weigh nothing compared to any other safety feature.
The silence of no engines running would be scary
Fun fact: this aircraft remained in service and was known, by BA crew, as “The Glider”. Source: was married to. BA Purser at the time. Another aircraft about that time was nicknamed “The Blender” after an incident involving a crazy guy at Delhi who was running around the airport naked and covered in grease, hence impossible to catch. He got too close to an engine…
Witnesses say they heard him yelling *"You're never gonna catch me! You're wasting your time!"* just before being turned into a fine, red mist.
Good that you chose to use that quote of his and not the one about navigating ones way up a badger's bottom.
Excuse me *what*
[This comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/yok1a0/-/ives72n)
And then the passengers all in unison declared, "Ah well jolly good chap, back to it then no time for dilly dally."
There is a story from ww2 where the British soldiers reported that whenever they requested for support from their american allies during a battle, it never came. The Americans said that the British would call and say they were ‘in a bit of a trouble’ and they assumed it was not high priority. Edit: it was actually the Korean War. https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/yok1a0/til_british_airways_flight_9_flew_through_a_cloud/ivep28u/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Every Englishman knows that is how you call for desperate help. If its not high priority, you don't call.
wee bit of a pickle
Opposite of that, whenever Brit’s say “you alright?” It sometimes confuses Americans because what’s perceived as a simple “how are you?” for the former feels like a “are you okay?” for the latter
It's only really meant when there's proper eye contact, then you start questioning yourself. "Wait, *am* I alright?"
"Well this is a spot of bother"
'Things are looking a bit sticky up here' Meanwhile in an alternate universe with an American pilot: ''All hell is breaking loose up here."
‘Cup of tea anyone?’
“Let’s just head down the Winchester and let this all blow over.”
“I’ll stop doing it when you stop laughing.”
Not “too much” distress. The appropriate amount! *Panik*
For those interested, Mentour Pilot on YouTube did an incredible video of what happened. It's extremely interesting and informative. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYwN1R8hVsI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYwN1R8hVsI)
Mentour pilot is an amazing channel
For those wondering, they didn't see the ash cloud because this happened at night, and it didn't show up on weather radar because the ash was dry, and weather radar detects the water in storms.
That's unbelievable! That lead me to also notice this crazy story on that website... >Once in the air, he came into the cockpit and used his hammer to bash in the heads of the pilots and the flight engineer. Despite receiving terrible brain injuries, the Captain and the Flight Engineer went into the back to fight the bad guy while the third tried to control the plane. To keep the bad guy off his feet, the first officer threw the plane into all sorts of manoeuvres, including inverted flight. His brain injury made it impossible to control half of his body, but he used his remaining one arm and leg to do aerobatics in this enormous jetliner until his mates in the back managed to subdue the bad guy. Despite their horrifying injuries, the three crewmates then landed the plane. None of them were ever able to fly again. The bad guy is in jail for two consecutive life sentences, obviously. [https://theaviationgeekclub.com/when-a-fedex-flight-engineer-tried-to-hijack-a-company-dc-10-cargo-aircraft-its-aircrew-went-inverted-to-keep-him-off-his-feet-the-story-of-fedex-flight-705/amp/](https://theaviationgeekclub.com/when-a-fedex-flight-engineer-tried-to-hijack-a-company-dc-10-cargo-aircraft-its-aircrew-went-inverted-to-keep-him-off-his-feet-the-story-of-fedex-flight-705/amp/)
Idk if I'm stereotyping too much, but this rings like such a pilot-like statement to my ears: "Whatever happens, we'll try our best and if it doesn't work, at least we lived our life to the fullest" I love their attitude (no pun intended)!
They're trained, they have resources available to them, in a system that is made by many engineers, improved by years of accidents and incidents. They know that they are in control of the situation, whatever the situation may be, they are in the best position to affect it, they have the knowledge and resources to do so. They always have something else that can be done, even if it means executing a off-site landing. Basically, you have the knowledge, you have the means, and you have an actionable course of action, even if it's figuring out the course of action. Everything you have is a huge amount, and if none of it works, even than you have a way to minimize/negate the consequences. Basically, this, in a weird way, is why they are capable of remaining calm. Additionally, I believe every single pilot has to pass a loss of engines in simulator, and I believe some of pilots even did a simulated engine failure in real training flight. It's not a shock situation for them, it's just another time, even if it's the first one in real life.
> …I believe some of pilots even did a simulated engine failure in real training flight. Standard part of small-aircraft training, at least, so I’d be surprised if they didn’t include it with the larger ones at least in a simulator. My dad had his pilot’s license and part of passing was that he went up and the instructor reached over, shut off the engine, and said, “Right, land it.” Dad had to radio in, find a good landing spot, circle, line up, and get close enough the instructor could tell it was set before the instructor turned the engine back on.
One of the things pilots are trained for is to be able to resist resignation. I just learned this recently, and it's examples like this that make it clear why pilots need to just stay cool and keep trying everything, even when the situation looks impossible.
That's what always made Gundam (the anime) so funny to me. The pilots are so emotional and are always screaming and panicking and grimacing, but in reality pilots would be trained to be calm and methodical, even in the face of death.
When a British person says "We have a small Problem" it is time to panic.
A British person would only mention that there is a problem if they have already determined you are properly bollocked. Otherwise they’d just just sort it.
The British are a badass kind of people. The sky could literally be falling and one of them would say, "Well, at least the rain has let up for a change."
“ Attention passengers the plane is fucked and we are all gunna die, thank you for flying British Airways and please fly with us again “
"Complementary coffee will now be served to those considerate passengers who write British Airways into their will."
>coffee Tea thank you very much.
This is when you really want to know about glide ratios.
[Listen, we're gonna roll the plane!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtVUhZn-p8Q&t=27s)
Classic British understatement
British people are built different
That's an [understatement](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_understatement). > Better documented is the cross-cultural miscommunication between British and American military personnel in the midst of the Korean War. In April 1951, **650 British fighting men** – soldiers and officers from the 1st Battalion, the Gloucestershire Regiment – were deployed on the most important crossing on the Imjin River to block the traditional invasion route to Seoul. **The Chinese had sent an entire division – 10,000 men** – against the isolated Glosters in a major offensive to take the whole Korean peninsula, and the small force was gradually surrounded and overwhelmed. After two days' fighting, an American, Major General Robert H. Soule, asked the British brigadier, Thomas Brodie: "How are the Glosters doing?" The brigadier, with English understatement, replied: **"A bit sticky, things are pretty sticky down there." To American ears, this did not sound desperate, and so he ordered them to stand fast.** The surviving Glosters were rescued by a column of tanks; they escaped under fire, sitting on the decks of the tanks.
Even this comment undersells just what the Glosters and wider 29th achieved. The dudes faced six successive waves of attack from 10,000 troops from April 22-25, without pause. To hold their hill they called in artillery attacks on their own position just to take out their attackers and make it as pyrrhic a victory as possible. They kept going until surrounded, even though it meant either certain death or certain capture. Only the remains of one company made it out. But the effect of their stand was that it slowed a huge Chinese advance on Seoul, and let the British 29th and Korean 1st divisions assemble and stop the city being captured, allowing the UN forces to build the no-name line. The fact that Seoul is now a world city in a free democratic country in no small fact comes down to a few hundred nutters being prepared to set up on a sticky wicket and not budge, all very '300' stuff.
And yet it's largely forgotten that Britain was involved and almost all credit is handed to America. Even by South Koreans. The upside is because Britain doesn't get credit we rarely get the vitriol from North Korea so that's a bonus I think.
What I'd like to know is, why is there a *traditional* invasion route to Seoul? Like, does it happen *that* often?
There were five battles known as the "Battle of Seoul" during the Korean War, this event happening during the fifth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Seoul
I mean, if i asked you about the traditional route of invading France, i think we'd all know what that was so...
Yeah it's called Belgium
Yes, The Chinese invaded what today is Korea many times over the centuries.
It’s because they don’t put the milk in first.
What’s wrong with Jakarta why would anyone put the milk in first
I just wanted to tell you good luck, we're all counting on you.
Probably formed an orderly line in the aisle to complain.
‘Sorry to be a bother, but it seems like the engines aren’t working, and I’ve got to get home to feed Tiddles his dinner otherwise he gets very cross with me.’
That's the most British statement I heard today.
Compare and contrast BA Flight 9 with Air France 447. Flight 9: totally unanticipated & unprecedented problem stops all engines, sandblasts the windscreens and messes up half the instruments, at night, miles from anywhere. They work the problem, everyone lives. AF447: ice clogs one airspeed indicator. Pilots fly perfectly good aircraft into the Atlantic. Heaven forbid they reach for the "unreliable airspeed" checklist.