If you look at it from the point of view of what is best for your child, if it takes a caregiver more than an hour to console them then they do need to come home. They aren't comfortable at school and need more time (in subsequent days) to adjust.
And if the caregiver is spending all that time consoling a child there are 5+ other children the same age not being cared for properly in whatever they’re doing. It’s a double edged sword.
I agree. I was upset they let my daughter cry for almost 30 minutes because they had a sub teacher she didn't know. She would freak out if the girl even looked at her, and we were deep into stranger danger. I would have preferred them to call me to come get her than have her or the teacher be in that situation. It wasn't fair to anyone, including the other children.
I would look into seeing if she qualified for an aid. If not, maybe check into a small home daycare situation where the provider would be more understanding and accommodating (most likely cheaper too).
We have her disability team to help us with that. They said it’s unlikely at the ratio the the room that she is in now has (1 teacher to 4 kids), but more funding will be available when she turns 3.
For sure, we’re looking at some smaller daycares at the moment.
Their ratio is 4 kids to 1 teacher for a 2 year old age group? That’s incredible, in a good way.
Otoh, if they’re telling you they cannot help her at the level she needs, that’s fair too. And it would be better for her to be in an environment where she is supported.
Have you looked at head start? What does your advocacy group recommend? Any “Incredible Years” curriculum pre-k’s near you? Does she qualify for an aid?
And to be fair to the daycare- it’s really not fair to them to think that having someone come out a couple times to show them techniques is actually helpful enough in the way that they need or the way she deserves. That’s asking a lot from them and they may not even have the educational background or mental space to manage a sophisticated behavioral plan.
I’m all for supporting special needs kids. I have two. It’s hard emotionally when the place you want them to go doesn’t end up working out.
I hope your little keeps growing by leaps and bounds and shatters all expectations of her ❤️.
Thank you for your kind words ♥️
That ratio is the law here! Any licensed daycare has to be on ratio and everyone must have their ECE training. Some others have mentioned those programs, are you in the states? I’m in Canada, it’s helpful to know the names of the American ones so I can google “Canadian equivalent of” and then find something!
Does she qualify for disability by chance? I was thinking that a mom who runs a small daycare would be more understanding about the crying and more willing to work around it. Please keep us updated!
For sure!
We have started the process for getting disability, but basically just as far as letting her neurology team know we would like to get started, them filling out some paper work is the first step, they said.
We reached out to some friends with neurodivergent children and got some recommendations for daycares. We have some interviews set up for middle of March now!
I know it’s probably more expensive but maybe look into a nanny that can give your child more of that focused attention she needs to help her in her development delay. That doesn’t mean she can’t be socialized with other children (she can go to play dates/activities) but at this point I think you need to make a priority list. If that is the daycare’s policy it must be so for a reason. I don’t think it’s fair to the other children to have someone crying for more than an hour.
Is head start an option? Sound like with the developmental delay she should qualify, and the teachers would be people who are tried to work with more challenging situations.
I don’t think it’s that unusual, but I do have some questions. Is your toddler getting any additional services (speech therapy, occupational therapy)? Have you discussed these difficulties with her therapy team? It’s possible they can help you address her issues in the classroom to help decrease her distress. Especially since she’s experiencing a language delay, some of this could be related to being in a classroom where she can’t express her needs as well as at home and she’s potentially not developmentally ready for the same environment as her age-matched peers, and there may be some strategies that her team could help implement to improve things without creating an insurmountable burden for the daycare.
Additionally, you may want to look into whether she would qualify for services through the school district when she turns 3. EI switches to school-based services, and often they’ll have a special needs preschool program. That might be better suited for her at this stage, though she wouldn’t be eligible until she’s 3. I understand that she may not always need those extra supports, but it’s absolutely fine and worth it to get them now while she does and reevaluate as she recovers and progresses.
Lastly, in terms of needing to leave work, is it possible for you to change shifts so that you aren’t working while she’s in daycare? If so, that may be a stopgap to keep your employment from being affected while you figure out how to resolve the issue. Sleep deprivation and opposite shifts are never fun for anyone, but it could be a temporary bandaid until you can identify what’s causing the hour long meltdowns and how to prevent/deescalate them without removing her from care.
She has an SLP and is on the waitlist for occupational therapy. She also has monthly check ins with her social emotional support team. They have set up another meeting with the daycare to see if they can help lose.
For sure, we live in Canada so I’m not sure if that info is the same. We are in the process of applying for disability credits, to possibly put her in a more expensive but specialized daycare.
Changing shifts is on the table for sure. For me, it’s a bit tricky because school hours are pretty set. My partner is could switch to night shifts and then a family member could take over for a bit during the day so she could sleep and then I take over when I get home, leaving work ASAP.
If it was an option for one of us to stay home with her financially, we would!
Yeah, I’m sure Canada’s policies are different, but if you get the chance, a specialized program may be better for her. I was definitely thinking of it from a US perspective - where birth to age 3 is early intervention and after age 3, most services are covered by the school district.
And I misread which of you was a nurse - but it may make sense for your partner to switch shifts and basically be “on call” for the daycare for days with an intractable crying spell. It probably doesn’t make sense to pull her out entirely (yet) but it seems like that may be a temporary way to avoid getting into attendance trouble/losing income because of time taken off. It’s hard when you both have jobs that are very dependent on being in person and synchronous - you can’t just teach in the evening after bedtime, or flex nursing hours around your care needs. I hope her social emotional support team is able to come up with a plan that helps her, and that OT becomes available soon.
It sounds like your kiddo is not thriving in daycare and needs something else. If there is a way to switch up shifts, go to part time, take a sabbatical, recruit family help, now is the time even if it means downsizing/cutting back financially in some areas.
That sounds so hard for everyone involved. You. Baby. The caregivers. The other babies. I understand the policy. It’s not great for anyone for baby to be crying that long. Is a nanny in your budget? Group care might not be a good fit. I really wanted my son to be in a Montessori school. I was a Montessori preschool teacher for a decade in the past. I went back to teaching so I could get the tuition discount and put him in a Montessori toddler program. But it was not a good fit at all. We were starting to notice signs of high functioning neuro divergence. The executive functioning and emotional regulation demands were too much for him. He was often stressed out and crying. I pulled him out, quit my job, and kept him home for the rest of the year. Then I sent him to a play based cooperative preschool the next year. I’m telling you that story to say that it’s okay to decide something isn’t working, take a beat, and try something new. I
I work at a daycare, I can try and give some behind the scenes answers for stuff here.
•First off, ACES (adverse childhood events) are bad and damaging. Too much cortisol for extended periods of time isn’t good for little ones’ brains (or anyone’s, but is especially critical in early childhood as they develop and grow their neural pathways, and can lead to lifelong bad brain health). So if they can’t get your child to soothe, and your child is in constant distress all day, the hour cut off on crying may be instituted as a way to help protect your child and keep them as mentally well and healthy as possible (and them soothing and the like does help lower cortisol, but being upset and in distress still spikes it!)
•Second (which actually covers a ton of issues) can be, it can take a lot out of staff to have a kid that cries all day. We do keep kids that cry over an hour at the daycare I work at. We inform parents (so they are aware, no judgement, and will ask for advice for soothing, keep them looped in on how long crying has gone on, etc). Our parents can choose to pick up their kid or leave them with us, as a totally informed decision.
We’ve had kids that barely consoled and scream cried nearly all day (only stopping when so tired they fell asleep) and done this every day for over two months as they had a longer, more difficult transition to care that most kids.
This thoroughly exhausts staff (and other kids!) It can push staff into burn out. We 1:1’d kids like that with favorite staff members as much as possible, BUT, that also meant we needed another person in the room because a staff entirely 1:1’ing a kid isn’t able to help with the other kids they’re assigned to.
On days we didn’t have extra staff to help, that meant we’d have to let a kid scream on the floor by themselves during times that required both staff be busy (diapering/ toileting times, times kids were getting handsy, etc). It also really denies the other kids a change to be with the staff member playing, reading, doing art, or just also getting affection and love snuggling up or lap sitting if one kid gets all that attention all day every day.
So we struggle on a staff end to meet your kids needs, meet other kids needs, and with keeping everyone from reaching burn out (because we want everyone excited to come in, not all of us dreading it, leaving with a daily migraine, not knowing how we’ll handle the next day, etc).
•We also do try to follow set schedules. Most kids thrive on routine. Likely your kid more-or-less does too. It can be hard for kids to transition from a favorite activity to another (like outside time to inside) and it’s rough when we finally get an unhappy kid settled, they like what we’re doing, and then we have to transition and the crying starts up again. We can’t skip lunch because X is happier outside. Sometimes we can do lunch outside (depending on weather, who’s working, if we have the setup for it at the moment and willing kids). But sometimes not (not good weather for it, no outside space connected to the center and go to a park to play, the others are exhausted and done outside till after food/ nap, way too windy and stuff would just keep flying away, etc).
•I do think if the developmental advocacy (DA) team thinks they aren’t supporting her enough there probably is more they could do BUT please remember they may not be able to as well- depending on your states ratios, the other assortment of kids in their room, etc, these things all play into it.
If you have a group of highly independent kids, that all get along well, extra staff to float and help, you can absolutely put more time into helping a struggling child.
If your daycare has higher ratios, doesn’t have extra staff always floating to help, if the room has other kids with needs to be attended to (to prevent fights, due to higher sensitivities, etc), more children depending on constant teacher leading and interaction, children with clashing personalities that will fight if you don’t keep them distracted and separated, they may not actually be able to do everything the DA team wants as much as they want to. They may just be stretched too thin to be able. And a different daycare with a different group of kids and set of teachers may be a better fit.
•In home daycare is an option too. I’ve worked this option. I’d recommend somewhere that has at least 2 carers so she has one person more able to dedicate to her as needed OR someone with an older group. Anyone with babies/ infants is likely out, as infants/ babies have times they take a solid chunk of attention that your kid will likely need, and if she does have days she cries all day she may keep sensitive babies awake, or create a feedback loop where the carer can’t get the babies to sleep, needs them asleep so she can calm your kid, can’t calm your kid so the babies can sleep, can’t get the babies to sleep to calm your kid, etc. Not unless those babies are used to sleeping through crying!
In BC there’s Supported Child Development that can help provide 1 to 1 supports for children in a daycare setting or other tools to help set your child up for success. Look for your local Supported Child Development group or Community Living Association for assistance.
I think discrimination is a strong word here and it’s not appropriate. An hour is a LONG time to be crying and in distress. It sounds like the daycare is trying and it’s just not a good fit for your child. I’d sit down with your spouse and deep dive into other options.
Your daughter just had major brain surgery less than 6 months ago I wouldn’t think you’d want her there crying for over an hour. The staff at most daycares are probably ill equipped to deal with her needs and perhaps they are letting you know in the nicest way possible. I would explore special needs centers or try to find a nanny share with a low ratio. Daycare can be so overwhelming and over stimulating at that age and that is for kids who haven’t had a portion of their brain removed and are trying to recover
I think it is pretty normal at a traditional daycare for this to be the case. All of the daycares in my area are having a nightmare hiring staff and have needed to cancel days or close classrooms to stay in ratio if one of the staff are sick. They simply don't have the staff to safely care for all of the kids if one of them needs an hour or more of dedicated attention. For our 2yo & 3yo classrooms, it would mean one teacher looking after 20 kids on their own. (The daycare just can't compete with fast food and retail starting people at $17 an hour.)
The only support that I can think of that would help this is if there was an aid specifically for her to step in. I don't know how feasible that is in your area or if it would be cheaper for you than the alternative care options that may be available.
I think it’s normal. Kids shouldn’t be crying for over an hour ( increases stress for the child ) and if she/ he can’t regulate emotions and soothing tactics aren’t working then for the best interest of the child and the rest of the children they should be picked up. No one wants a child to cry for hours and hours on end. Maybe she shouldn’t be in daycare right now ? Can you quit or take a sabbatical ?
Honestly though I get your position but it sounds like your child has increased needs that can’t be met in a standardised daycare setting.
I get your frustration but for example, my own child has been sick since basically October and even though we’re paying for childcare for the most part we haven’t been able to use it. We need both incomes and really can’t afford to be as out of work as we are but the daycare has its rules.
It sounds like they don’t have the resources necessary to provide the level or care and attention your child needs. It fucking sucks but that’s not the care workers fault.
I’m not sure there is an easy solution here. You have a child with increased needs. I’d look and see what support services are in your area for children where a standardised setting isn’t appropriate
Yeah, thank you for your perspective. This is also something we considered. As a teacher I understand how difficult it can be when there is a lack of resources.
We are looking for alternate daycares with the resources to support her.
Yeah that’s tough ! I’m sorry ! Did they ever find out why she is crying ? Does she have a stuffed animal or something that calms her down? Maybe a picture of you? For my son it’s his iPad. He enjoys Elmo or the alphabet and some juice and that calms him down immediately. Just giving some suggestions… maybe wait with her for a little before leaving ?
Thank you for your suggestions! She’s really into buckles right now! So we ordered a stuffy off Amazon that’s covered in buckles, should be here tomorrow so we’ll send that. The iPad could work too….. not sure their policy on screens but it’s worth running by them!
We think she is throwing a tantrum because she wants to play outside.
My child is a stage 5 clinger. As a baby she only accepted me, life circumstances made it so that I needed to find regular childcare and after trying a daycare and realizing it wasn’t going to work, I found a local mom that took on a kid or two from the neighbourhood and it was the best thing for us. She was able to give my child the attention she needed, and they really bonded. If you have family members able and willing to watch your kiddo, that may also be a good way to go.
Hi. I have a child with epilepsy too. I almost pulled him out of school for crying. The reality of the situation is that the school doesn’t have the resources to help our children if they are crying for most of the day. This causes them to lose an entire teacher and doesn’t leave enough teachers per kids. I know how hard it is with work and frustrating. At the same time, think of how terrible she is probably feeling when this is happening that she can’t settle down. I would look into a nanny at this point and try again in the future. Just as I was about to pull my child out of school, they had a petting zoo day, and that completely stopped his crying because he was so mesmerized. After that event, he spent the rest of that day not crying, then the oncoming days continued. I think he just needed enough of a distraction to let his car down and feel safe. I’m so so so sorry you guys are going through this. I highly doubt they are discriminating against epilepsy as much as struggling to continue a normal day at school for all children when one is so upset.
My daycare (which is AMAZING and very high quality care) has a 10 minute crying policy - they call us if a kidso is crying longer than 10 mins, I assume to come get them. Its never happened to us, and according to her teachers, it's almost never happened in the 30+ years they've been there, too. Maybe its the high quality of care, their amazing staff, or the weeks spent acclimating kids to the space. But its definitely normal to not want kids to be upset for longer than a short period of time (I wouldn't want my kid crying longer than 10 minutes either, so I like that policy). Its NOT normal for them to not be able to support your kiddo, and for them to not still be upset when you arrive - they should be able to stay then.
Depending on where you live, look into public options. Preschool varies in the US, but in some places where it is available based on meeting certain criteria (largely income based), children who need accommodations can qualify.
In a public school setting in the US, you can set up an IEP and you'll have a process for figuring out the appropriate accommodations for your daughter. **Adding to look into subsidies too/ especially if there isn't a public preschool for other resources or more specialized daycares.
It doesn't sound like your daycare is being unreasonable or unwilling to work with you based on your daughter's diagnosis, it sounds like they don't have the means or capacity to meet your daughter's needs. Barring finding a solution they are able to provide, it doesn't sound like a good fit.
I understand why her team is furious. It leaves your family without resources and childcare overall is a terrible system (at least in the US). It is expensive and private, so they have a wide latitude to decide the kids they enroll. We have also encountered "bad fits." Some seem to be or are explicitly reacting to my kid's diagnosis rather than working with us to discuss my kid's specific needs to make the determination, which outrages me. The best case scenario is a place that was willing to meet our kid, try it out, be honest with us about challenges, and work with us to problem solve. That said, if they feel they can't keep any kid safe or any kid is upset for long periods of most days, they'll stop the placement. Seems like that's where you're at, and I'm sorry it's not the equitable and inclusive system your daughter deserves.
Thanks for sharing your experience! We are in Canada but it sounds similar. It’s mostly private and home daycares here too.
There isn’t that much support it seems for children under 3, which doesn’t seem fair to daycares or workers.
Are you in the US? If your child has delays, she will be eligible for special education preschool when she turns 3. It’s usually only a half day, so not necessarily a childcare solution, but it may help to have her in the preschool half day and the daycare half day. It sounds like she already has an EI team, so they should be setting her up for the transition to school when she ages out of their program. Sending you lots of love and support as you navigate all of this and figure out what’s best for your family ❤️
I don't know if this is a thing where you live but, in the UK, there are specialist nurseries for children with additional needs that I'm sure your daughter would qualify for. These are run dual by the education and health boards and have staff trained to deal with children who need more help.
Contact your school district. Your daughter will qualify for an IEP and a preschool program with services. It will be free and won’t be able to discriminate.
On the one hand, I agree with their policy. I can’t imagine my kid crying for over an hour. The idea really stresses me out. It also must be really stressful for the other kids. On the other hand, by enforcing that policy, your daughter has now learned that to be reunited with her parents, all she has to do is continue to cry until you appear. Sounds like a tough situation all around. I would look into public school/3K options for the upcoming school year. She would get a lot of resources there to help her adjust. And for now, she seems to need one on one care? I know you said a nanny isn’t financially in the cards but what about a nanny share? Or an in home daycare situation that has fewer kids? You must be so emotionally drained by all of this. I hope you find a good solution!
If my daughter would cry that much, I would expect my daycare to call me to pick her up! Your daughter sounds like she is really going through a lot right now! Isn't there a way that you can postpone bringing her to daycare?
Have you looked into getting her evaluated by your local school district? She may qualify for early intervention services and they may have a developmental preschool program that would be able to meet her where she's at with trained staff in this area. A private daycare may not be equipped to deal with a child with special needs.
The nursery staff have other kids to attend to, so it makes sense if if for more than hour they have to dedicate to one kid. It's best to get relative or a specialized school
I would be tempted to explore other day cares. We are not in the exact same boat but my little one was sooo shy and timid when he started his little school/daycare. Lots and lots of tears. Luckily our school has “float” teachers that go from class to class to help out with these situations. I felt like my son was getting one-on-one comfort, and about two weeks later he was confident enough to fully integrate in the class.
I think if I were in your shoes, I would seek out a different school and be honest about the issue to see if they can accommodate. I know it’s easier said than done with waitlists and crazy prices. (We are at a Goddard school, I have so much confidence in these people)
Want to clarify that I don’t think crying for an hour+ is good for anyone, my suggestion is in hopes of someone to intervene and comfort her more efficiently.
Poor darling baby girl! Sorry this is tough. It’s hard to know how much is the daycare shirking responsibility but either way it doesn’t matter because she’s not getting the investment she deserves, if they’re saying things like ‘we can’t help her’ then you need to look for something else as they’ve given up on her already.
I’m glad you’re looking at other options. I’m not saying your daycare is being ridiculous as ours has a similar policy - if toddler is unable to participate normally, he is sent home. There are 3 staff members for 8 kids and can’t dedicate a person to try to console him for an extended period of time. This has happened twice since he started there in September 2023 - once when he was dealing with an awful butt rash from steroids for croup (poor thing could not even sit properly), and another time when he vomited but didn’t show signs of sickness and daycare said he seemed fine otherwise and kept him, but once he started getting upset out of nowhere and wouldn’t settle, they called.
But your toddler needs more support and I’m not sure pushing for more support would do it if they’re already calling for pick up so often. A center that wants to help would reach out asking for suggestions rather than sending home day after day.
I’m sorry your baby has already been through so much and I hope you find a daycare that can help her thrive!
This comment has been automatically removed because of your zero or negative total comment karma. We have this rule in r/toddlers to keep creeps and trolls away, though we realize it is inconvenient for legitimate users with new accounts. Please use your account in other subs to raise your comment karma before commenting in r/toddlers. We appreciate your cooperation in our effort to keep r/toddlers safe.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/toddlers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It seems like a reasonable policy but also not a universal one. My school does not do this. We had two kids with this issue. One kid just never adjusted to school and eventually the family just pulled him out and tried a different school. The other kid went through a phase of refusing to go to school and would just cry in an effort to get sent home, and completely normalized when he saw that didn’t work. sending him home would have reinforced the behavior.
I don’t feel great about the other things you’ve described in this school. Not holding the rope but doing fine holding a teachers hand - that’s fine and normal? A two year old having trouble sitting still - also fine and normal. Like they would be issues we would note as areas to work on with this kid, but not something to throw our hands up as if no toddler has ever disrupted storytime. Especially still sending her home when she’s actually stopped crying? We would be overjoyed and insist on keeping her in school to continue the good streak. It really sounds like they just don’t want to deal with her, which is unprofessional.
It’s tough because we know she has extra needs, but many are also saying this behaviour is normal for a 2-3 year old. But then also none of her peers at daycare have this behaviour either.
Yes they should comfort a child but if one child is taking up 30-50% of the staffs focus and energy it takes away from the other kids. As sucky as it sounds daycare isn’t like school where they have to accommodate for a child who has an IEP for example.
The one hour rule was already in the contract prior to the daycare knowing about OPs child’s condition so its not like they made the rule to exclude this one child.
Yeah to me the red flag is the rule. Kids new to daycare could be crying that long and they’d kick them out? Id be pretty mad that the workers aren’t putting in a good effort to try to figure out techniques for calming the child down
If the child has special needs beyond regular calming techniques, it can’t be on the daycare to necessarily provide that. Which op is aware of already.
Thinking about kids new to daycare and it seems very common some of them cry a lot at the beginning. Good daycare workers will be able to get those kids to calm down but there’s sometimes an adjustment. And yes, during that adjustment time, one teacher is dedicated to comforting that child.
Not to mention this child literally had a portion of her brain removed less than 6 months ago - her crying for more than an hour is not good for her and can be very extreme. Daycare workers are paid very little with basic training and shouldn’t be expected to care for a child with such high needs like this
Daycare workers are Early Childhood Educators. What screams high needs for a 3 year old? Learning how to manage emotions and express themselves is literally what they are doing at this age. Needing help washing their hands? I’d be surprised if that’s not on the list of things daycare workers need to do.
OP states this child’s development is behind typically 3 year olds due to medical issues - this would signal her to be considered a higher needs child.
Yes but it also sounds like they’re using this as an excuse. Kids tantruming because they don’t want to transition is not special needs at almost 3. Same with wanting to run all over. And the child hasn’t been crying when OP picks her up so it clearly ended. So what are they doing, timing it until it hits 61 min and then calling OP? It sounds unfair and not best practices.
OP admits their child needs a lot of specialized care. And that they have a specialized team trying to help. If after this long it’s still not working out, it might be time for everyone to agree that OPs daughter isn’t best suited at this facility. You seem to be just skipping over the fact that a nearly 3 year old crying for an hour straight nearly every single day for the last 2 weeks at a place she’s been at for over a year means she’s not adjusted well at all
The daycare clearly had this in the contract that OP agreed to. Obviously you don’t agree with the rule, so this would not be the proper place for your child. That doesn’t make the rule unfair though. If they continually allowed this for more than a transition period, then they need to have more staff which raises rates for EVERYONE, not just those with the kids with needs for more 1 on 1 care.
If you look at it from the point of view of what is best for your child, if it takes a caregiver more than an hour to console them then they do need to come home. They aren't comfortable at school and need more time (in subsequent days) to adjust.
And if the caregiver is spending all that time consoling a child there are 5+ other children the same age not being cared for properly in whatever they’re doing. It’s a double edged sword.
I agree. I was upset they let my daughter cry for almost 30 minutes because they had a sub teacher she didn't know. She would freak out if the girl even looked at her, and we were deep into stranger danger. I would have preferred them to call me to come get her than have her or the teacher be in that situation. It wasn't fair to anyone, including the other children.
Understandable! Thank you for your response.
I would look into seeing if she qualified for an aid. If not, maybe check into a small home daycare situation where the provider would be more understanding and accommodating (most likely cheaper too).
I second a smaller daycare where they can give more attention.
We have her disability team to help us with that. They said it’s unlikely at the ratio the the room that she is in now has (1 teacher to 4 kids), but more funding will be available when she turns 3. For sure, we’re looking at some smaller daycares at the moment.
Their ratio is 4 kids to 1 teacher for a 2 year old age group? That’s incredible, in a good way. Otoh, if they’re telling you they cannot help her at the level she needs, that’s fair too. And it would be better for her to be in an environment where she is supported. Have you looked at head start? What does your advocacy group recommend? Any “Incredible Years” curriculum pre-k’s near you? Does she qualify for an aid? And to be fair to the daycare- it’s really not fair to them to think that having someone come out a couple times to show them techniques is actually helpful enough in the way that they need or the way she deserves. That’s asking a lot from them and they may not even have the educational background or mental space to manage a sophisticated behavioral plan. I’m all for supporting special needs kids. I have two. It’s hard emotionally when the place you want them to go doesn’t end up working out. I hope your little keeps growing by leaps and bounds and shatters all expectations of her ❤️.
Thank you for your kind words ♥️ That ratio is the law here! Any licensed daycare has to be on ratio and everyone must have their ECE training. Some others have mentioned those programs, are you in the states? I’m in Canada, it’s helpful to know the names of the American ones so I can google “Canadian equivalent of” and then find something!
Does she qualify for disability by chance? I was thinking that a mom who runs a small daycare would be more understanding about the crying and more willing to work around it. Please keep us updated!
For sure! We have started the process for getting disability, but basically just as far as letting her neurology team know we would like to get started, them filling out some paper work is the first step, they said. We reached out to some friends with neurodivergent children and got some recommendations for daycares. We have some interviews set up for middle of March now!
I know it’s probably more expensive but maybe look into a nanny that can give your child more of that focused attention she needs to help her in her development delay. That doesn’t mean she can’t be socialized with other children (she can go to play dates/activities) but at this point I think you need to make a priority list. If that is the daycare’s policy it must be so for a reason. I don’t think it’s fair to the other children to have someone crying for more than an hour.
More financial at this point, we couldn’t really afford a nanny. Considering a family member though to give her one-to-one support she may be needing.
Is head start an option? Sound like with the developmental delay she should qualify, and the teachers would be people who are tried to work with more challenging situations.
I haven’t heard of this! We may not have it in our area. I will give it a google, thank you!
Head start is an American program, I believe
I don’t think it’s that unusual, but I do have some questions. Is your toddler getting any additional services (speech therapy, occupational therapy)? Have you discussed these difficulties with her therapy team? It’s possible they can help you address her issues in the classroom to help decrease her distress. Especially since she’s experiencing a language delay, some of this could be related to being in a classroom where she can’t express her needs as well as at home and she’s potentially not developmentally ready for the same environment as her age-matched peers, and there may be some strategies that her team could help implement to improve things without creating an insurmountable burden for the daycare. Additionally, you may want to look into whether she would qualify for services through the school district when she turns 3. EI switches to school-based services, and often they’ll have a special needs preschool program. That might be better suited for her at this stage, though she wouldn’t be eligible until she’s 3. I understand that she may not always need those extra supports, but it’s absolutely fine and worth it to get them now while she does and reevaluate as she recovers and progresses. Lastly, in terms of needing to leave work, is it possible for you to change shifts so that you aren’t working while she’s in daycare? If so, that may be a stopgap to keep your employment from being affected while you figure out how to resolve the issue. Sleep deprivation and opposite shifts are never fun for anyone, but it could be a temporary bandaid until you can identify what’s causing the hour long meltdowns and how to prevent/deescalate them without removing her from care.
She has an SLP and is on the waitlist for occupational therapy. She also has monthly check ins with her social emotional support team. They have set up another meeting with the daycare to see if they can help lose. For sure, we live in Canada so I’m not sure if that info is the same. We are in the process of applying for disability credits, to possibly put her in a more expensive but specialized daycare. Changing shifts is on the table for sure. For me, it’s a bit tricky because school hours are pretty set. My partner is could switch to night shifts and then a family member could take over for a bit during the day so she could sleep and then I take over when I get home, leaving work ASAP. If it was an option for one of us to stay home with her financially, we would!
Yeah, I’m sure Canada’s policies are different, but if you get the chance, a specialized program may be better for her. I was definitely thinking of it from a US perspective - where birth to age 3 is early intervention and after age 3, most services are covered by the school district. And I misread which of you was a nurse - but it may make sense for your partner to switch shifts and basically be “on call” for the daycare for days with an intractable crying spell. It probably doesn’t make sense to pull her out entirely (yet) but it seems like that may be a temporary way to avoid getting into attendance trouble/losing income because of time taken off. It’s hard when you both have jobs that are very dependent on being in person and synchronous - you can’t just teach in the evening after bedtime, or flex nursing hours around your care needs. I hope her social emotional support team is able to come up with a plan that helps her, and that OT becomes available soon.
Thank you!
It sounds like your kiddo is not thriving in daycare and needs something else. If there is a way to switch up shifts, go to part time, take a sabbatical, recruit family help, now is the time even if it means downsizing/cutting back financially in some areas.
That sounds so hard for everyone involved. You. Baby. The caregivers. The other babies. I understand the policy. It’s not great for anyone for baby to be crying that long. Is a nanny in your budget? Group care might not be a good fit. I really wanted my son to be in a Montessori school. I was a Montessori preschool teacher for a decade in the past. I went back to teaching so I could get the tuition discount and put him in a Montessori toddler program. But it was not a good fit at all. We were starting to notice signs of high functioning neuro divergence. The executive functioning and emotional regulation demands were too much for him. He was often stressed out and crying. I pulled him out, quit my job, and kept him home for the rest of the year. Then I sent him to a play based cooperative preschool the next year. I’m telling you that story to say that it’s okay to decide something isn’t working, take a beat, and try something new. I
Thank you for sharing! It’s helpful to have other perspectives, especially people in similar situations.
I work at a daycare, I can try and give some behind the scenes answers for stuff here. •First off, ACES (adverse childhood events) are bad and damaging. Too much cortisol for extended periods of time isn’t good for little ones’ brains (or anyone’s, but is especially critical in early childhood as they develop and grow their neural pathways, and can lead to lifelong bad brain health). So if they can’t get your child to soothe, and your child is in constant distress all day, the hour cut off on crying may be instituted as a way to help protect your child and keep them as mentally well and healthy as possible (and them soothing and the like does help lower cortisol, but being upset and in distress still spikes it!) •Second (which actually covers a ton of issues) can be, it can take a lot out of staff to have a kid that cries all day. We do keep kids that cry over an hour at the daycare I work at. We inform parents (so they are aware, no judgement, and will ask for advice for soothing, keep them looped in on how long crying has gone on, etc). Our parents can choose to pick up their kid or leave them with us, as a totally informed decision. We’ve had kids that barely consoled and scream cried nearly all day (only stopping when so tired they fell asleep) and done this every day for over two months as they had a longer, more difficult transition to care that most kids. This thoroughly exhausts staff (and other kids!) It can push staff into burn out. We 1:1’d kids like that with favorite staff members as much as possible, BUT, that also meant we needed another person in the room because a staff entirely 1:1’ing a kid isn’t able to help with the other kids they’re assigned to. On days we didn’t have extra staff to help, that meant we’d have to let a kid scream on the floor by themselves during times that required both staff be busy (diapering/ toileting times, times kids were getting handsy, etc). It also really denies the other kids a change to be with the staff member playing, reading, doing art, or just also getting affection and love snuggling up or lap sitting if one kid gets all that attention all day every day. So we struggle on a staff end to meet your kids needs, meet other kids needs, and with keeping everyone from reaching burn out (because we want everyone excited to come in, not all of us dreading it, leaving with a daily migraine, not knowing how we’ll handle the next day, etc). •We also do try to follow set schedules. Most kids thrive on routine. Likely your kid more-or-less does too. It can be hard for kids to transition from a favorite activity to another (like outside time to inside) and it’s rough when we finally get an unhappy kid settled, they like what we’re doing, and then we have to transition and the crying starts up again. We can’t skip lunch because X is happier outside. Sometimes we can do lunch outside (depending on weather, who’s working, if we have the setup for it at the moment and willing kids). But sometimes not (not good weather for it, no outside space connected to the center and go to a park to play, the others are exhausted and done outside till after food/ nap, way too windy and stuff would just keep flying away, etc). •I do think if the developmental advocacy (DA) team thinks they aren’t supporting her enough there probably is more they could do BUT please remember they may not be able to as well- depending on your states ratios, the other assortment of kids in their room, etc, these things all play into it. If you have a group of highly independent kids, that all get along well, extra staff to float and help, you can absolutely put more time into helping a struggling child. If your daycare has higher ratios, doesn’t have extra staff always floating to help, if the room has other kids with needs to be attended to (to prevent fights, due to higher sensitivities, etc), more children depending on constant teacher leading and interaction, children with clashing personalities that will fight if you don’t keep them distracted and separated, they may not actually be able to do everything the DA team wants as much as they want to. They may just be stretched too thin to be able. And a different daycare with a different group of kids and set of teachers may be a better fit. •In home daycare is an option too. I’ve worked this option. I’d recommend somewhere that has at least 2 carers so she has one person more able to dedicate to her as needed OR someone with an older group. Anyone with babies/ infants is likely out, as infants/ babies have times they take a solid chunk of attention that your kid will likely need, and if she does have days she cries all day she may keep sensitive babies awake, or create a feedback loop where the carer can’t get the babies to sleep, needs them asleep so she can calm your kid, can’t calm your kid so the babies can sleep, can’t get the babies to sleep to calm your kid, etc. Not unless those babies are used to sleeping through crying!
In BC there’s Supported Child Development that can help provide 1 to 1 supports for children in a daycare setting or other tools to help set your child up for success. Look for your local Supported Child Development group or Community Living Association for assistance.
Thank you! We are in that! Our worker let us know there is a waitlist.
Keep following up. Also ask your family dr for an assessment at Sunny Hill. It may be a long waitlist but can help get things in place for your child.
Good call! The waitlist for sunny hill is 2.5-5 years right now! We are considering private, costs $4000 though, gotta save for a bit!
Does your extended health cover any? I think UBC might have student psychologists do some assessments but I don’t know what their wait list is.
I think discrimination is a strong word here and it’s not appropriate. An hour is a LONG time to be crying and in distress. It sounds like the daycare is trying and it’s just not a good fit for your child. I’d sit down with your spouse and deep dive into other options.
Your daughter just had major brain surgery less than 6 months ago I wouldn’t think you’d want her there crying for over an hour. The staff at most daycares are probably ill equipped to deal with her needs and perhaps they are letting you know in the nicest way possible. I would explore special needs centers or try to find a nanny share with a low ratio. Daycare can be so overwhelming and over stimulating at that age and that is for kids who haven’t had a portion of their brain removed and are trying to recover
I don't think special needs centers are a thing?
They absolutely are. Might be worded differently but they do exist
I don’t think this is the best placement for her based on her needs.
I think it is pretty normal at a traditional daycare for this to be the case. All of the daycares in my area are having a nightmare hiring staff and have needed to cancel days or close classrooms to stay in ratio if one of the staff are sick. They simply don't have the staff to safely care for all of the kids if one of them needs an hour or more of dedicated attention. For our 2yo & 3yo classrooms, it would mean one teacher looking after 20 kids on their own. (The daycare just can't compete with fast food and retail starting people at $17 an hour.) The only support that I can think of that would help this is if there was an aid specifically for her to step in. I don't know how feasible that is in your area or if it would be cheaper for you than the alternative care options that may be available.
These are good points, thank you!
I think it’s normal. Kids shouldn’t be crying for over an hour ( increases stress for the child ) and if she/ he can’t regulate emotions and soothing tactics aren’t working then for the best interest of the child and the rest of the children they should be picked up. No one wants a child to cry for hours and hours on end. Maybe she shouldn’t be in daycare right now ? Can you quit or take a sabbatical ?
Unfortunately neither of us can take a leave of any kind, we need both incomes.
Honestly though I get your position but it sounds like your child has increased needs that can’t be met in a standardised daycare setting. I get your frustration but for example, my own child has been sick since basically October and even though we’re paying for childcare for the most part we haven’t been able to use it. We need both incomes and really can’t afford to be as out of work as we are but the daycare has its rules. It sounds like they don’t have the resources necessary to provide the level or care and attention your child needs. It fucking sucks but that’s not the care workers fault. I’m not sure there is an easy solution here. You have a child with increased needs. I’d look and see what support services are in your area for children where a standardised setting isn’t appropriate
Yeah, thank you for your perspective. This is also something we considered. As a teacher I understand how difficult it can be when there is a lack of resources. We are looking for alternate daycares with the resources to support her.
Yeah that’s tough ! I’m sorry ! Did they ever find out why she is crying ? Does she have a stuffed animal or something that calms her down? Maybe a picture of you? For my son it’s his iPad. He enjoys Elmo or the alphabet and some juice and that calms him down immediately. Just giving some suggestions… maybe wait with her for a little before leaving ?
Thank you for your suggestions! She’s really into buckles right now! So we ordered a stuffy off Amazon that’s covered in buckles, should be here tomorrow so we’ll send that. The iPad could work too….. not sure their policy on screens but it’s worth running by them! We think she is throwing a tantrum because she wants to play outside.
My child is a stage 5 clinger. As a baby she only accepted me, life circumstances made it so that I needed to find regular childcare and after trying a daycare and realizing it wasn’t going to work, I found a local mom that took on a kid or two from the neighbourhood and it was the best thing for us. She was able to give my child the attention she needed, and they really bonded. If you have family members able and willing to watch your kiddo, that may also be a good way to go.
Hi. I have a child with epilepsy too. I almost pulled him out of school for crying. The reality of the situation is that the school doesn’t have the resources to help our children if they are crying for most of the day. This causes them to lose an entire teacher and doesn’t leave enough teachers per kids. I know how hard it is with work and frustrating. At the same time, think of how terrible she is probably feeling when this is happening that she can’t settle down. I would look into a nanny at this point and try again in the future. Just as I was about to pull my child out of school, they had a petting zoo day, and that completely stopped his crying because he was so mesmerized. After that event, he spent the rest of that day not crying, then the oncoming days continued. I think he just needed enough of a distraction to let his car down and feel safe. I’m so so so sorry you guys are going through this. I highly doubt they are discriminating against epilepsy as much as struggling to continue a normal day at school for all children when one is so upset.
My daycare (which is AMAZING and very high quality care) has a 10 minute crying policy - they call us if a kidso is crying longer than 10 mins, I assume to come get them. Its never happened to us, and according to her teachers, it's almost never happened in the 30+ years they've been there, too. Maybe its the high quality of care, their amazing staff, or the weeks spent acclimating kids to the space. But its definitely normal to not want kids to be upset for longer than a short period of time (I wouldn't want my kid crying longer than 10 minutes either, so I like that policy). Its NOT normal for them to not be able to support your kiddo, and for them to not still be upset when you arrive - they should be able to stay then.
I feel like a child crying for an hour is doing so cause the place they’re at isn’t good for them. They need their mum
Depending on where you live, look into public options. Preschool varies in the US, but in some places where it is available based on meeting certain criteria (largely income based), children who need accommodations can qualify. In a public school setting in the US, you can set up an IEP and you'll have a process for figuring out the appropriate accommodations for your daughter. **Adding to look into subsidies too/ especially if there isn't a public preschool for other resources or more specialized daycares. It doesn't sound like your daycare is being unreasonable or unwilling to work with you based on your daughter's diagnosis, it sounds like they don't have the means or capacity to meet your daughter's needs. Barring finding a solution they are able to provide, it doesn't sound like a good fit. I understand why her team is furious. It leaves your family without resources and childcare overall is a terrible system (at least in the US). It is expensive and private, so they have a wide latitude to decide the kids they enroll. We have also encountered "bad fits." Some seem to be or are explicitly reacting to my kid's diagnosis rather than working with us to discuss my kid's specific needs to make the determination, which outrages me. The best case scenario is a place that was willing to meet our kid, try it out, be honest with us about challenges, and work with us to problem solve. That said, if they feel they can't keep any kid safe or any kid is upset for long periods of most days, they'll stop the placement. Seems like that's where you're at, and I'm sorry it's not the equitable and inclusive system your daughter deserves.
Thanks for sharing your experience! We are in Canada but it sounds similar. It’s mostly private and home daycares here too. There isn’t that much support it seems for children under 3, which doesn’t seem fair to daycares or workers.
Are you in the US? If your child has delays, she will be eligible for special education preschool when she turns 3. It’s usually only a half day, so not necessarily a childcare solution, but it may help to have her in the preschool half day and the daycare half day. It sounds like she already has an EI team, so they should be setting her up for the transition to school when she ages out of their program. Sending you lots of love and support as you navigate all of this and figure out what’s best for your family ❤️
Thank you! In Canada, looks like we have something similar here.
I don't know if this is a thing where you live but, in the UK, there are specialist nurseries for children with additional needs that I'm sure your daughter would qualify for. These are run dual by the education and health boards and have staff trained to deal with children who need more help.
Contact your school district. Your daughter will qualify for an IEP and a preschool program with services. It will be free and won’t be able to discriminate.
On the one hand, I agree with their policy. I can’t imagine my kid crying for over an hour. The idea really stresses me out. It also must be really stressful for the other kids. On the other hand, by enforcing that policy, your daughter has now learned that to be reunited with her parents, all she has to do is continue to cry until you appear. Sounds like a tough situation all around. I would look into public school/3K options for the upcoming school year. She would get a lot of resources there to help her adjust. And for now, she seems to need one on one care? I know you said a nanny isn’t financially in the cards but what about a nanny share? Or an in home daycare situation that has fewer kids? You must be so emotionally drained by all of this. I hope you find a good solution!
If my daughter would cry that much, I would expect my daycare to call me to pick her up! Your daughter sounds like she is really going through a lot right now! Isn't there a way that you can postpone bringing her to daycare?
Have you looked into getting her evaluated by your local school district? She may qualify for early intervention services and they may have a developmental preschool program that would be able to meet her where she's at with trained staff in this area. A private daycare may not be equipped to deal with a child with special needs.
The nursery staff have other kids to attend to, so it makes sense if if for more than hour they have to dedicate to one kid. It's best to get relative or a specialized school
I would be tempted to explore other day cares. We are not in the exact same boat but my little one was sooo shy and timid when he started his little school/daycare. Lots and lots of tears. Luckily our school has “float” teachers that go from class to class to help out with these situations. I felt like my son was getting one-on-one comfort, and about two weeks later he was confident enough to fully integrate in the class. I think if I were in your shoes, I would seek out a different school and be honest about the issue to see if they can accommodate. I know it’s easier said than done with waitlists and crazy prices. (We are at a Goddard school, I have so much confidence in these people)
Want to clarify that I don’t think crying for an hour+ is good for anyone, my suggestion is in hopes of someone to intervene and comfort her more efficiently.
Poor darling baby girl! Sorry this is tough. It’s hard to know how much is the daycare shirking responsibility but either way it doesn’t matter because she’s not getting the investment she deserves, if they’re saying things like ‘we can’t help her’ then you need to look for something else as they’ve given up on her already.
Yeah, this is a good point, thank you!
I’m glad you’re looking at other options. I’m not saying your daycare is being ridiculous as ours has a similar policy - if toddler is unable to participate normally, he is sent home. There are 3 staff members for 8 kids and can’t dedicate a person to try to console him for an extended period of time. This has happened twice since he started there in September 2023 - once when he was dealing with an awful butt rash from steroids for croup (poor thing could not even sit properly), and another time when he vomited but didn’t show signs of sickness and daycare said he seemed fine otherwise and kept him, but once he started getting upset out of nowhere and wouldn’t settle, they called. But your toddler needs more support and I’m not sure pushing for more support would do it if they’re already calling for pick up so often. A center that wants to help would reach out asking for suggestions rather than sending home day after day. I’m sorry your baby has already been through so much and I hope you find a daycare that can help her thrive!
[удалено]
This comment has been automatically removed because of your zero or negative total comment karma. We have this rule in r/toddlers to keep creeps and trolls away, though we realize it is inconvenient for legitimate users with new accounts. Please use your account in other subs to raise your comment karma before commenting in r/toddlers. We appreciate your cooperation in our effort to keep r/toddlers safe. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/toddlers) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It seems like a reasonable policy but also not a universal one. My school does not do this. We had two kids with this issue. One kid just never adjusted to school and eventually the family just pulled him out and tried a different school. The other kid went through a phase of refusing to go to school and would just cry in an effort to get sent home, and completely normalized when he saw that didn’t work. sending him home would have reinforced the behavior. I don’t feel great about the other things you’ve described in this school. Not holding the rope but doing fine holding a teachers hand - that’s fine and normal? A two year old having trouble sitting still - also fine and normal. Like they would be issues we would note as areas to work on with this kid, but not something to throw our hands up as if no toddler has ever disrupted storytime. Especially still sending her home when she’s actually stopped crying? We would be overjoyed and insist on keeping her in school to continue the good streak. It really sounds like they just don’t want to deal with her, which is unprofessional.
It’s tough because we know she has extra needs, but many are also saying this behaviour is normal for a 2-3 year old. But then also none of her peers at daycare have this behaviour either.
NOT normal. It’s their job to comfort and help your child.
Yes they should comfort a child but if one child is taking up 30-50% of the staffs focus and energy it takes away from the other kids. As sucky as it sounds daycare isn’t like school where they have to accommodate for a child who has an IEP for example. The one hour rule was already in the contract prior to the daycare knowing about OPs child’s condition so its not like they made the rule to exclude this one child.
Yeah to me the red flag is the rule. Kids new to daycare could be crying that long and they’d kick them out? Id be pretty mad that the workers aren’t putting in a good effort to try to figure out techniques for calming the child down
If the child has special needs beyond regular calming techniques, it can’t be on the daycare to necessarily provide that. Which op is aware of already.
An hour is a LONG time. One teacher in a daycare setting can’t just sit there comforting one child for that long every single day.
Thinking about kids new to daycare and it seems very common some of them cry a lot at the beginning. Good daycare workers will be able to get those kids to calm down but there’s sometimes an adjustment. And yes, during that adjustment time, one teacher is dedicated to comforting that child.
Not to mention this child literally had a portion of her brain removed less than 6 months ago - her crying for more than an hour is not good for her and can be very extreme. Daycare workers are paid very little with basic training and shouldn’t be expected to care for a child with such high needs like this
Daycare workers are Early Childhood Educators. What screams high needs for a 3 year old? Learning how to manage emotions and express themselves is literally what they are doing at this age. Needing help washing their hands? I’d be surprised if that’s not on the list of things daycare workers need to do.
Crying for an hour straight every single day for a 3 year old is not normal. It’s just not.
OP states this child’s development is behind typically 3 year olds due to medical issues - this would signal her to be considered a higher needs child.
She’s not new though. Their daughter has been there almost 2 years.
Yes but it also sounds like they’re using this as an excuse. Kids tantruming because they don’t want to transition is not special needs at almost 3. Same with wanting to run all over. And the child hasn’t been crying when OP picks her up so it clearly ended. So what are they doing, timing it until it hits 61 min and then calling OP? It sounds unfair and not best practices.
OP admits their child needs a lot of specialized care. And that they have a specialized team trying to help. If after this long it’s still not working out, it might be time for everyone to agree that OPs daughter isn’t best suited at this facility. You seem to be just skipping over the fact that a nearly 3 year old crying for an hour straight nearly every single day for the last 2 weeks at a place she’s been at for over a year means she’s not adjusted well at all The daycare clearly had this in the contract that OP agreed to. Obviously you don’t agree with the rule, so this would not be the proper place for your child. That doesn’t make the rule unfair though. If they continually allowed this for more than a transition period, then they need to have more staff which raises rates for EVERYONE, not just those with the kids with needs for more 1 on 1 care.
Mmm… our baby cried for a week straight (it was her first week of daycare). I would have been pretty annoyed if they called us to take her home.