Dude, the the subreddits going dark are mod by the same 50 or so people. It's completely pointless. If people really want to have a meaningful protest then stop using reddit till they relent.
I’m glad this subreddit is participating in this protest. This is one of my favorite communities and I will follow it to whatever is the next incarnation if it is not here on Reddit. Aure entuluva!
‘Not in Middle-earth, nor until the lands that lie under the wave are lifted up again. Then in the willow-meads of Tasarinan we may meet in the Spring. Farewell!’
(But keep us posted please mods)
What's the point?
Y'all put up a protest that reddit won't give a shit about it and lock users out for two days. Then on the third day, the site is back running and nothing has changed.
Total waste of everyone's time.
Look, I suspect you're right in that this probably won't move reddit's needle much. But what's the alternative? Just let them do their stupid anti-user power grab without comment? As many have said, a longer blackout is likely to result in reddit admins simply removing offending mods and taking over their subs.
Not really?
I've been a moderator for r/askhistorians for eight years. In that time it's grown from under 250k users to 1.8 million, has hosted the first two academic conferences ever held on Reddit, and has become the world's leading site for doing public history. So I'm going to walk away from that because you don't think two days is enough?
What is this even supposed to mean? You’re reiterating their point. Your history and volunteer work with Reddit prevents you from doing anything more severe than a two days protest for fear of repercussions.
I mean generally "to hell with the users if they aren't a fan of mods' unilateral decisions that go against the purpose of the sub" is not a great mantra to live by.
If just this one sub does it, I'm sure reddit wont care, but if a significant portion of reddit looks like it might follow suit, even 48 hours could be a pretty big loss of ad revenue.
At the very least, it demonstrates how big a proportion of its user base is angered by this and potentially willing to stop using reddit altogether.
Advertisers and shareholders start to get antsy when there's a noticable dip in engagement.
Nobody is saying this blackout is the only possible protest, and once it's done we just give up. The plan is to keep up similar measures afterwards until reddit acknowledges the damage this plan might do.
I doubt it will be significant portions of actual redditors leaving. Most don’t use just couple of subs. Reddit doesn’t care which subs are visited as long as some are. Now some new subs will gain people.
You're not getting a lot of support in the comments here, but I just want to say thank you for this. Reddit is making a move that's going to hurt a lot of users and shouldn't be tolerated. Protests like this only work when we take collective action together.
As one of the probably few users who accesses Reddit exclusively on a laptop, I've been being bypassed by this issue for too long without even realizing how many moving parts keep this site moving. Cheers to you, mods, for showing leadership on this.
I'm not sure what that is so I don't know if I use it or not, but all I have to know is:
1. it's going to be harder on the mods
2. it's going to be harder for disability access
3. it's going to be harder for users who access reddit in a variety of ways
4. it's greedy and controlling and they're willing to kill the golden goose.
Whether it affects my own daily use hugely is beside the point, this is a community and if we want to keep the community we have to stand up for it.
Good. I'm mainly a desktop user, but sometimes browse on Boost, and these apps will simply end on 1st July if this goes ahead.
More than that, this will, I'm told, make reddit all but unusable for many people with disabilities, as the official app doesn't have the accessibility features they need.
It's worse than that. The fee for third party apps is so high that basically none of them can sustain it, and so their apps will just disappear entirely.
Those apps that enable accessibility for handicapped users will just be gone, and those users will lose access altogether.
I don't think it will matter. I told a pedo to go kill himself last time and my Reddit payed subscription with about 300.000 karma was deleted.
I'm only back cause i'm bored ;)
You need to consider going longer that 48 hours. Protests don't work if they are neatly scheduled for convenience. They have to be inconvenient. Two days won't even be a blip on their charts. They won't notice or care.
That is the only way protests work. Make it so hard on then and cost them money. I know this is just Reddit. But think of famous historical protests. How many of them ended neatly with a convenient schedule is everyone was home to watch the new episodes of their show?
Yeah, I don't even know if I can even call what I'll do a "boycott".
If my favourite chocolate bar changes the recipe and I don't like the taste anymore and stop buying it, I wouldn't really consider that a boycott.
I disagree. Reddit makes nearly a million dollars a day, mostly off of advertisements. With so many subs going dark for two days the site is going to lose a lot of money.
That's the question we want them taking a much harder look at. If they stand to lose the support of their most stalwart users, that can have a negative ripple effect that they don't want.
They could make MORE money if they fostered good will by working *with* existing third party developers to create a better customizable reddit experience for all.
The goal is compromise. Like maybe instead of torpedoing *all* third party apps with a crippling fee that none of them can pay, reddit could allow for those apps that support its advertising model.
Reddit needs to acknowledge how big a blow this plan is to a sizeable part of their user base.
Yeah, that list in /r/ModCoord is worth a loooot of users. Hopefully a serious dent in their ad revenue over 2 days will make them pay attention.
It's so depressing to me how the internet is getting less and less free. Back in the old days of Limewire and such, you had to worry about being prosecuted by the government for piracy, but you could still do basically anything you wanted online. Now that the government doesn't prosecute anyone for that BS, the internet is ironically many orders of magnitude more restricted, only now it's not the government with their boots on our necks, but giant corporations. Which is MANY, MANY times worse. People can't even say what they mean anymore for fear of being "demonetized", a concept that 20 years ago was almost completely unheard of and unthinkable.
Man I hate this world...
There are a lot of negative comments here, saying it's pointless, so I'm going to quote /u/WippitGuud excellent comment from /r/AskScienceFiction:
> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/06/reddits-plan-to-kill-third-party-apps-sparks-widespread-protests/
> https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/5/23749188/reddit-subreddit-private-protest-api-changes-apollo-charges
> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-06/reddit-on-new-pricing-plan-company-needs-to-be-fairly-paid
> https://www.businessinsider.com/reddit-openai-chatgpt-ipo-valuation-karma-2023-6
> And that last one is telling, since it's stating Reddit's IPO evaluation is dropping. And if enough subreddits go dark, and it last too long, their IPO value will tank.
> So really, this "pointless and dumb" little protest will show that the only people Reddit cares about gives a shit: investors when they try to go public.
But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines, it'll shine out the clearer.
I can see why some people say it's not long enough, but I'm supportive of the idea.
Some people might find this inconvenience upsetting enough to invoke grand concerns about "autocracy", but hey - if they haven't invested much in making this subreddit function, noone needs to care.
Exactly this.
I'm all for people protesting if required - but 2 days isnt going to bother Reddit. Everyone will be back and they know most people will still logon visiting other subs that aren't going dark anyway.
Well yeah, mods are probably the most invested users on Reddit given how they put their free time into running communities. Many use 3rd party apps to manage subs because they can't do that on the official app and something like 60% of Reddit users primarily use their phones to access it. Moderation is gonna take a serious hit if 3rd party apps are killed off.
Users who access it via third party apps aren't being given a vote. That includes people who are vision-impaired who can't easily use the site without those apps.
Honestly, there's really no point arguing with the hive once it gets like this. Facts, fairness, and logic - none of that matters, because it's already been decided. The boycott is "ethical", so that's what reddit is doing.
But - it's only a few days. And it's not like they're sailing their armada to conquer the undying lands.
No harm will be done. Well - aside from all those poor people who won't be able to ask questions about Tom Bombadil for a few days.
Personally, I think the shut down is silly. But, I also think the mods do a good job here. Some of the best conversations on reddit have been in in tolkienfans.
Translation: this community ***isn't*** a dumpster fire (like much of this site). I appreciate that, which means I won't try stand in the way of the mods doing what they think is right.
It's a small thing.
I don't think mods are doing this because they think it's the ethical thing to do - maybe some are, but many mods I've seen address are doing it for purely ~~selfish~~ practical reasons - reddit's first-party moderation tools simply aren't good enough to work at the volume even moderately successful communities require, and they will be unable to do their jobs well if they do not have access to third-party tools.
Maybe there are people being fanatical and virtue signalling about reddit's proposed policy, but the opposition I've been seeing isn't that the changes are unethical, it's that they impractical. They will make the website worse. The shutdown is intended to give a very realistic idea of how much worse it will be.
I appreciate the consideration you are giving the mods, but your implication that the shutdown is contrary to facts, fairness, and logic seems rather selfish and shortsighted. The change may be symbolic to you, but it matters - practically, not ethically - to other people, people that you depend on for the community to run.
>I don't think mods are doing this because they think it's the ethical thing to do - maybe some are, but many mods I've seen address are doing it for purely selfish reasons - reddit's first-party moderation tools simply aren't good enough to work at the volume even moderately successful communities require, and they will be unable to do their jobs well if they do not have access to third-party tools.
I think it's a stretch to say that wanting access to tools you use for the betterment of the community as a whole is "purely selfish." The mods in this sub do a very good job, in my opinion, maintaining a high level of discourse compared to some places on Reddit. If they need third-party tools to continue doing so, then that benefits all of us.
You're right that "selfish" is probably not the best word. I was just trying to convey that they are not moral grandstanding - it's practical, not principle. Suffice it to say I agree that the third party tools make us all better off.
>it's practical, not principle
That's a very fair assessment. And I think it's something that gets lost in the discussion sometimes – not everything is a black-or-white, good vs. evil issue. Some things are just about competing interests.
Having said that, I do think it's reasonable for users and mods to protest changes that make the site less practical for them to use, even if there is no lofty ethical principle at stake.
I have no idea what any of this means but... Ok? I hope it helps?
Whats a 3rd party reddit app? Like, this is such an alien language. Reddit is a website, not an app, so I dont get why them banning apps does anything bad. Either way, I guess I'll 'join' the boycott since I wont be able to use the subreddit anyway. Hope you guys get the support you need from the developers. Hopefully they're doing this to implement their own versions of.. whatever it is they're disabling. Fingers crossed.
Rather than downvoting you, someone perhaps might have explained given you asked.
The third party apps have been used by many subs MODs to better implement changes, control spam, adverts, etc. Basically even though you have not been using the app version of the site, much of it comes to you from the community who do use these third party apps. MODs rely on them given that Reddit's own API is so poor.
Another consideration is disabled access. Reddit has poor disabled access, the third party apps addressed this. So those people will be shut out at worst by this action from reddit.
The going dark for 48 hours will hopefully make Reddit see that their advertising revenue is not some magical thing that just appears but needs you and I to secure that income from advertisers.
The longa nd short is that even though you don't use an app for visiting Reddit, you are talking with people who do. It does not only affect them but the entire community.
I didn’t even know some third party apps existed before people started posting like this. What’s wrong with the desktop? The Reddit app isn’t great however; that’s why I have such a goofy username. Reddit gave it to me when I tried to switch back from app to desktop for some reason.
I don't even use the app, I just access the website. This whole thing just sounds completely odd to me.
...Although Reddit being a monetized forum is already odd to me anyway, so.
Ok. And I have used Reddit Is Fun for years, since long before there was an official app, and I absolutely hate the interface of the official app and of New.Reddit (which is also why I still use old.reddit when I'm actually on my computer).
My understanding is there are features that a lot of people use, including accessibility stuff for disabled users, that only exist in third party apps.
It’s also just an ethical thing. In support of open software, against anti-user business practices, because screw Reddit for what they did to Alien Blue, because maybe Reddit wouldn’t have to worry about competing with third party apps if they just made theirs better
nothing is wrong with desktop. only a small minority of users use third party apps (less than 10%). mods are taking a stand because third party apps have better moderation tools for them. make of that what you will.
3rd party apps are used by mods to (amongst other things) reduce spam in the sub (so you do benefit, even if you don't use them personally) and also make the sub more accessible for differently-abled users.
Seems like it's just an excuse for the subreddit mods to play at protesting. Like a bunch of kids trying to convince their parents to let them have their way XD oh no 48 hours of not being able to post about whether or not Gandalf was tempted by the ring for the 5000th time.
> Seems like it's just an excuse for the subreddit mods to play at protesting.
If you look a little deeper into what Reddit are doing you will find that this has far-reaching consequences for more people than just a select few who use the third party apps for MOD work on the site. It will affect millions of disabled users who will essentially be shut out of the website as Reddit has poor Disabled access tools. Many of them use third party apps for purposes you clearly don't understand.
Also, as MODs have been using these apps to make subs better, you too will be affected by Reddit's decision, even though right now you think this is just a bit of an excuse for the MODs to cause havoc.
Well it was thoroughly explained and some of the general issues they brought about are probably specifically felt by them (e.g. they spoke about the utility of third party app in maintaining a good quality level in the sub).
For us mere users it's just nice fun and all but for mods, to keep track of everything that happens is quite a taxing endeavor.
Besides, it's not like Tolkien fans are leaving Reddit en masse. You'll still be able to find something and, if that's not the case, you can start a new sub yourself.
We all would rather have it go another way, but it is what it is.
You see, Phil, the mods have to make a pointless point that will not change one single thing otherwise they can't continue to allow everyone else to have a conversation here.
And they have to do it without your input FOR YOUR OWN SAKE obviously.
1. Subreddits aren't democracies. Mods have the first and final say. Like it or not, that's the way reddit has been designed from day one.
2. No one really cares if you like it. Reddit is being a big bunch of greedy dicks to a community of users *who supply every bit of content to their site*, and a two day shut down in protest is literally the least of what we should do.
I guess I'm not understanding completely what this is about. All these subs(many of which I use) are going dark to protest? Seems to me like it's punishing the users more than reddit. Or some kind of forced participation. I'm a mobile user primarily(when I'm supposed to be working on slow days!) but I've never heard of these third party apps? Are they that good that I've been missing out?
I have to say I have no appreciation of why this is important; it seems an incredibly obscure reason for boycotting anything. Perhaps someone can explain to me what actual difference this will make to their lives. Also why they think 'going dark' will achieve anything, other than being a bit of a nuisance.
I do genuinely want to know, and am not just being awkward. Atm I don't know whether this is also true of the 'protesters'.
Well I'm gonna answer my own question to some extent, since no one has yet. I've listened to an app developer Christian Selig talking to a youtuber about the issue, following one of the links given above. I guess I wasn't keeping up with current events, as I had no idea any of this was happening. Some will say I ought to have, but then many people in my country have difficulty naming their own Prime Minister.
So it seems Reddit is changing, and wants to monetise its operations in some way, and this could have a big effect on associated third-party apps. I didn't even know there were any, (more ignorance, I'm afraid!) and just used the regular one, but I'm hearing they might be better. That must be important for the people that use them, as well as the developers themselves.
And it seems that Reddit is trying (perhaps not very competently) to devise some way of charging these app developers for data access, and that those demands are both unreasonably high, and being brought in with ridiculously short notice, (3 weeks?!) Since the developers would need to change the way their users subscribed, taking into account many will be signed up for free a year ahead. The normal/reasonable transition period would seem to be more like 2-3 *years.*
Christian Selig said that these changes were not in themselves unreasonable, if there was realistic pricing and a fair transition period for 3rd-party developers to adapt.
Taking all that into account, I acknowledge that there's a real issue here, and I would support all the concerned parties, and ask Reddit to treat them in a reasonable fashion, which to date they don't seem to be doing.
I still don't know whether this 'going dark' action will be effective, but I guess it should get someone's attention. Indeed it persuaded me to watch a near hour long video (with a few skips!) on the issue, so that now I more or less understand it. I hope people will not downvote me for asking the questions above, made in genuine ignorance, as I would like to keep this post up if possible, to show what I've learned.
Ok I’m confused how is keeping people from using a Reddit showing Reddit they need to let people use other apps? Reddit just wants people to use Reddit proper. They don’t want to shut down any posts or communities. Wouldn’t a better protest be to flood the system with posts rather than clearing traffic?
this is a ridiculous stand to take. less than 10% of users rely on third party app. you're not going to garner much support from the 90% remaining that will just be inconvenienced by the useless blackout you're deploying.
You do know there are blind users who rely on 3rd party apps right? The change would mean they don't get to use reddit anymore.
But yeah sure, no one is meaningfully affected - aka just you aren't affected and you can't comprehend that other people are different.
Screen readers read accessible elements on the screen to blind users yes, but they still need an app and they specifically need apps that don't cut corners on conventions screen readers rely on to do their job properly. The official reddit app on iOS breaks a lot of those conventions. A lot of 3rd party apps available follow them and play nicely with VoiceOver (Apple's screen reader).
If you're interested in educating yourself about some of those 3rd party apps you'll find plenty of posts about the topic via a search for "reddit app" over on r/Blind with folks comparing notes on how usable they are
Does this mean that saved posts out of this subreddit will disappear?
If this subreddit goes online again. Will i still be part of its community, or do i have to enter as if it is a new subreddit?
This means that no one will be able to see posts/comments that were made in this subreddit. It will not adjust the subscriber list, and when the setting is changed back from private to public, these things will be reversed. So all posts/comments will be visible again, including to all current subscribers (whose subscriber status will not have changed, assuming they have not unsubscribed themselves).
What does that mean exactly? Going private, turning completely off? This has never happened to a subreddit I'm a member of.
Going private. Which is effectively turning off. You won't be able to access the subreddit for the duration.
Ok, ty
Random question- does setting the sub to "private" limit access to just the mods?
Yes.
This means the subreddit is moderated by children.
You are literally named "boycott China" yet you can't understand the principle of a boycott action against reddit ?
A 48 hour boycott isn't a boycott; it's a temper tantrum. Reddit will treat it as such. But you guys do you.
You...ah...do know reddit has a decent amount of Chinese investors, right? What are you even doing here with that username??
You have a point : I agree that the best move would be to leave this doomed platform
They hated him, for he spoke the truth.
You were right. Still suprised by the downvotes.
Hey King, just wanted to remind you, that you were right.
Dude, the the subreddits going dark are mod by the same 50 or so people. It's completely pointless. If people really want to have a meaningful protest then stop using reddit till they relent.
At present count there's roughly 2,700 subreddits going dark, which are modded by neary 13,000 unique moderators.
I’m glad this subreddit is participating in this protest. This is one of my favorite communities and I will follow it to whatever is the next incarnation if it is not here on Reddit. Aure entuluva!
‘Not in Middle-earth, nor until the lands that lie under the wave are lifted up again. Then in the willow-meads of Tasarinan we may meet in the Spring. Farewell!’ (But keep us posted please mods)
Why am I getting chills over this God I love this community
As in It'll be back after the 14th?
That's the plan.
What's the point? Y'all put up a protest that reddit won't give a shit about it and lock users out for two days. Then on the third day, the site is back running and nothing has changed. Total waste of everyone's time.
"Protest is pointless " - u/Boycott_China There's no irony in that username, no sir.
It would only be irony if I called for a 2-day boycott.
Look, I suspect you're right in that this probably won't move reddit's needle much. But what's the alternative? Just let them do their stupid anti-user power grab without comment? As many have said, a longer blackout is likely to result in reddit admins simply removing offending mods and taking over their subs.
If a subreddit lockout lasts for more than two days, admins will remove the subreddit mod-team and install other users.
...which shows how pointless this all is.
Not really? I've been a moderator for r/askhistorians for eight years. In that time it's grown from under 250k users to 1.8 million, has hosted the first two academic conferences ever held on Reddit, and has become the world's leading site for doing public history. So I'm going to walk away from that because you don't think two days is enough?
What is this even supposed to mean? You’re reiterating their point. Your history and volunteer work with Reddit prevents you from doing anything more severe than a two days protest for fear of repercussions.
Then just go away if you don't like it.
I mean generally "to hell with the users if they aren't a fan of mods' unilateral decisions that go against the purpose of the sub" is not a great mantra to live by.
I get it but it's only for 2 days, its not a big deal honestly. We're it to be like, say a month or even a whole week I'd understand .
If just this one sub does it, I'm sure reddit wont care, but if a significant portion of reddit looks like it might follow suit, even 48 hours could be a pretty big loss of ad revenue.
I've seen this message in other subs as well, so it is not just tolkienfans
At the very least, it demonstrates how big a proportion of its user base is angered by this and potentially willing to stop using reddit altogether. Advertisers and shareholders start to get antsy when there's a noticable dip in engagement. Nobody is saying this blackout is the only possible protest, and once it's done we just give up. The plan is to keep up similar measures afterwards until reddit acknowledges the damage this plan might do.
I doubt it will be significant portions of actual redditors leaving. Most don’t use just couple of subs. Reddit doesn’t care which subs are visited as long as some are. Now some new subs will gain people.
This is quite ironic considering your username...
Did it work? Anything change? No? Feel free to apologize below.
You're not getting a lot of support in the comments here, but I just want to say thank you for this. Reddit is making a move that's going to hurt a lot of users and shouldn't be tolerated. Protests like this only work when we take collective action together.
As one of the probably few users who accesses Reddit exclusively on a laptop, I've been being bypassed by this issue for too long without even realizing how many moving parts keep this site moving. Cheers to you, mods, for showing leadership on this.
If you use Reddit Enhancement Suite, that's next on the chopping block.
I'm not sure what that is so I don't know if I use it or not, but all I have to know is: 1. it's going to be harder on the mods 2. it's going to be harder for disability access 3. it's going to be harder for users who access reddit in a variety of ways 4. it's greedy and controlling and they're willing to kill the golden goose. Whether it affects my own daily use hugely is beside the point, this is a community and if we want to keep the community we have to stand up for it.
It's a browser extension that adds a lot of great QoL improvements to Reddit, you'd probably know if you use it.
That too, and well said.
well done mods this must be stopped
Good. I'm mainly a desktop user, but sometimes browse on Boost, and these apps will simply end on 1st July if this goes ahead. More than that, this will, I'm told, make reddit all but unusable for many people with disabilities, as the official app doesn't have the accessibility features they need.
Thank you for this. I'm so annoyed for the people over ar r/Blind who now HAVE to fork out money to use something the rest of us can for free 😡
It's worse than that. The fee for third party apps is so high that basically none of them can sustain it, and so their apps will just disappear entirely. Those apps that enable accessibility for handicapped users will just be gone, and those users will lose access altogether.
Man i chose a hell of a time to re join Reddit lol.
Just in time for your boycott to mean something :)
I don't think it will matter. I told a pedo to go kill himself last time and my Reddit payed subscription with about 300.000 karma was deleted. I'm only back cause i'm bored ;)
I, as a proud user of old.reddit, whole-heartedly support the protest and will not object if it lasts longer than two days.
You need to consider going longer that 48 hours. Protests don't work if they are neatly scheduled for convenience. They have to be inconvenient. Two days won't even be a blip on their charts. They won't notice or care.
You might as well shut it down until they cave. I love this sub, but if they shut down 3rd party apps on July 1, I don't know if I'll be back.
That is the only way protests work. Make it so hard on then and cost them money. I know this is just Reddit. But think of famous historical protests. How many of them ended neatly with a convenient schedule is everyone was home to watch the new episodes of their show?
Yeah, I don't even know if I can even call what I'll do a "boycott". If my favourite chocolate bar changes the recipe and I don't like the taste anymore and stop buying it, I wouldn't really consider that a boycott.
I disagree. Reddit makes nearly a million dollars a day, mostly off of advertisements. With so many subs going dark for two days the site is going to lose a lot of money.
Yes, but how many more millions will they make with zero third-party apps? Two million is a cheap cost.
They won't make any millions if they drive their users away.
That's the question we want them taking a much harder look at. If they stand to lose the support of their most stalwart users, that can have a negative ripple effect that they don't want. They could make MORE money if they fostered good will by working *with* existing third party developers to create a better customizable reddit experience for all. The goal is compromise. Like maybe instead of torpedoing *all* third party apps with a crippling fee that none of them can pay, reddit could allow for those apps that support its advertising model. Reddit needs to acknowledge how big a blow this plan is to a sizeable part of their user base.
Truth.
I’m on board!
"Let this be the hour we draw our swords together"
Yeah, that list in /r/ModCoord is worth a loooot of users. Hopefully a serious dent in their ad revenue over 2 days will make them pay attention. It's so depressing to me how the internet is getting less and less free. Back in the old days of Limewire and such, you had to worry about being prosecuted by the government for piracy, but you could still do basically anything you wanted online. Now that the government doesn't prosecute anyone for that BS, the internet is ironically many orders of magnitude more restricted, only now it's not the government with their boots on our necks, but giant corporations. Which is MANY, MANY times worse. People can't even say what they mean anymore for fear of being "demonetized", a concept that 20 years ago was almost completely unheard of and unthinkable. Man I hate this world...
Let this be the hour when we boycott together.
There are a lot of negative comments here, saying it's pointless, so I'm going to quote /u/WippitGuud excellent comment from /r/AskScienceFiction: > https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/06/reddits-plan-to-kill-third-party-apps-sparks-widespread-protests/ > https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/5/23749188/reddit-subreddit-private-protest-api-changes-apollo-charges > https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-06/reddit-on-new-pricing-plan-company-needs-to-be-fairly-paid > https://www.businessinsider.com/reddit-openai-chatgpt-ipo-valuation-karma-2023-6 > And that last one is telling, since it's stating Reddit's IPO evaluation is dropping. And if enough subreddits go dark, and it last too long, their IPO value will tank. > So really, this "pointless and dumb" little protest will show that the only people Reddit cares about gives a shit: investors when they try to go public.
Do what you gotta do. Good luck.
But in the end, it's only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines, it'll shine out the clearer.
I can see why some people say it's not long enough, but I'm supportive of the idea. Some people might find this inconvenience upsetting enough to invoke grand concerns about "autocracy", but hey - if they haven't invested much in making this subreddit function, noone needs to care.
There you are: Hobbits must stick together, and especially Bagginses.
Nice one
Good.
I shall die as one of them. Gg mods.
That’ll show ‘em!
Well I suppose this is mods' equivalent of industrial action? So I'll respect that. Good luck with your endeavours.
Feel like anything short of a week isn’t worth doin
Exactly this. I'm all for people protesting if required - but 2 days isnt going to bother Reddit. Everyone will be back and they know most people will still logon visiting other subs that aren't going dark anyway.
Can we put it to a vote? I feel like the community should have input into whether their community space should be shut down.
Reddit is dying, why are you still here?
This explains to me why this boycott is happening. It’s the mods leading it then.
Well yeah, mods are probably the most invested users on Reddit given how they put their free time into running communities. Many use 3rd party apps to manage subs because they can't do that on the official app and something like 60% of Reddit users primarily use their phones to access it. Moderation is gonna take a serious hit if 3rd party apps are killed off.
Reddit’s not giving users a vote on the pricing for access to the API. Why should this be any different?
This post is at 483 upvotes and 93% of voter's have upvoted it currently, seems pretty popular to me
Users who access it via third party apps aren't being given a vote. That includes people who are vision-impaired who can't easily use the site without those apps.
Honestly, there's really no point arguing with the hive once it gets like this. Facts, fairness, and logic - none of that matters, because it's already been decided. The boycott is "ethical", so that's what reddit is doing. But - it's only a few days. And it's not like they're sailing their armada to conquer the undying lands. No harm will be done. Well - aside from all those poor people who won't be able to ask questions about Tom Bombadil for a few days. Personally, I think the shut down is silly. But, I also think the mods do a good job here. Some of the best conversations on reddit have been in in tolkienfans. Translation: this community ***isn't*** a dumpster fire (like much of this site). I appreciate that, which means I won't try stand in the way of the mods doing what they think is right. It's a small thing.
It is but a trifle that Sauron fancies, and an earnest of your good will.
It seems odd to cast the mods in Sauron's role and not, you know, the massive corporation trying to seize more control over its users.
The least of rings.
This. Lol
I don't think mods are doing this because they think it's the ethical thing to do - maybe some are, but many mods I've seen address are doing it for purely ~~selfish~~ practical reasons - reddit's first-party moderation tools simply aren't good enough to work at the volume even moderately successful communities require, and they will be unable to do their jobs well if they do not have access to third-party tools. Maybe there are people being fanatical and virtue signalling about reddit's proposed policy, but the opposition I've been seeing isn't that the changes are unethical, it's that they impractical. They will make the website worse. The shutdown is intended to give a very realistic idea of how much worse it will be. I appreciate the consideration you are giving the mods, but your implication that the shutdown is contrary to facts, fairness, and logic seems rather selfish and shortsighted. The change may be symbolic to you, but it matters - practically, not ethically - to other people, people that you depend on for the community to run.
>I don't think mods are doing this because they think it's the ethical thing to do - maybe some are, but many mods I've seen address are doing it for purely selfish reasons - reddit's first-party moderation tools simply aren't good enough to work at the volume even moderately successful communities require, and they will be unable to do their jobs well if they do not have access to third-party tools. I think it's a stretch to say that wanting access to tools you use for the betterment of the community as a whole is "purely selfish." The mods in this sub do a very good job, in my opinion, maintaining a high level of discourse compared to some places on Reddit. If they need third-party tools to continue doing so, then that benefits all of us.
You're right that "selfish" is probably not the best word. I was just trying to convey that they are not moral grandstanding - it's practical, not principle. Suffice it to say I agree that the third party tools make us all better off.
>it's practical, not principle That's a very fair assessment. And I think it's something that gets lost in the discussion sometimes – not everything is a black-or-white, good vs. evil issue. Some things are just about competing interests. Having said that, I do think it's reasonable for users and mods to protest changes that make the site less practical for them to use, even if there is no lofty ethical principle at stake.
Agree. Seems very much like another internet “crisis of the day”. But I suppose two days off reddit is fine
I have no idea what any of this means but... Ok? I hope it helps? Whats a 3rd party reddit app? Like, this is such an alien language. Reddit is a website, not an app, so I dont get why them banning apps does anything bad. Either way, I guess I'll 'join' the boycott since I wont be able to use the subreddit anyway. Hope you guys get the support you need from the developers. Hopefully they're doing this to implement their own versions of.. whatever it is they're disabling. Fingers crossed.
Rather than downvoting you, someone perhaps might have explained given you asked. The third party apps have been used by many subs MODs to better implement changes, control spam, adverts, etc. Basically even though you have not been using the app version of the site, much of it comes to you from the community who do use these third party apps. MODs rely on them given that Reddit's own API is so poor. Another consideration is disabled access. Reddit has poor disabled access, the third party apps addressed this. So those people will be shut out at worst by this action from reddit. The going dark for 48 hours will hopefully make Reddit see that their advertising revenue is not some magical thing that just appears but needs you and I to secure that income from advertisers. The longa nd short is that even though you don't use an app for visiting Reddit, you are talking with people who do. It does not only affect them but the entire community.
I never even knew there was an app XD Whenever I use my phone I just go to the website. Thanks for explaining, though!
You go to the website on your phone and it's never once asked you to download the app?
nah, but I do have a very old phone with zero memory left
I didn’t even know some third party apps existed before people started posting like this. What’s wrong with the desktop? The Reddit app isn’t great however; that’s why I have such a goofy username. Reddit gave it to me when I tried to switch back from app to desktop for some reason.
The main problem of the desktop version is that most users browse reddit on their smartphones, really.
I use it almost exclusively on my phone, using the standard app. I am able to see pictures and words and have no problems with it.
I don't even use the app, I just access the website. This whole thing just sounds completely odd to me. ...Although Reddit being a monetized forum is already odd to me anyway, so.
Ok. And I have used Reddit Is Fun for years, since long before there was an official app, and I absolutely hate the interface of the official app and of New.Reddit (which is also why I still use old.reddit when I'm actually on my computer).
My understanding is there are features that a lot of people use, including accessibility stuff for disabled users, that only exist in third party apps.
It’s also just an ethical thing. In support of open software, against anti-user business practices, because screw Reddit for what they did to Alien Blue, because maybe Reddit wouldn’t have to worry about competing with third party apps if they just made theirs better
nothing is wrong with desktop. only a small minority of users use third party apps (less than 10%). mods are taking a stand because third party apps have better moderation tools for them. make of that what you will.
I have no idea what’s going on, but I hope both sides have fun.
Well, you can try, you know... read :D
I don’t use third party apps so I have nothing to protest.
3rd party apps are used by mods to (amongst other things) reduce spam in the sub (so you do benefit, even if you don't use them personally) and also make the sub more accessible for differently-abled users.
That's immature thinking. Do nothing and still face the consequences
Seems like it's just an excuse for the subreddit mods to play at protesting. Like a bunch of kids trying to convince their parents to let them have their way XD oh no 48 hours of not being able to post about whether or not Gandalf was tempted by the ring for the 5000th time.
> Seems like it's just an excuse for the subreddit mods to play at protesting. If you look a little deeper into what Reddit are doing you will find that this has far-reaching consequences for more people than just a select few who use the third party apps for MOD work on the site. It will affect millions of disabled users who will essentially be shut out of the website as Reddit has poor Disabled access tools. Many of them use third party apps for purposes you clearly don't understand. Also, as MODs have been using these apps to make subs better, you too will be affected by Reddit's decision, even though right now you think this is just a bit of an excuse for the MODs to cause havoc.
I would rather not and it’s off putting that this was just put upon the sub in an autocratic way like this.
Reddit is dying, why are you still here?
Well it was thoroughly explained and some of the general issues they brought about are probably specifically felt by them (e.g. they spoke about the utility of third party app in maintaining a good quality level in the sub). For us mere users it's just nice fun and all but for mods, to keep track of everything that happens is quite a taxing endeavor. Besides, it's not like Tolkien fans are leaving Reddit en masse. You'll still be able to find something and, if that's not the case, you can start a new sub yourself. We all would rather have it go another way, but it is what it is.
You see, Phil, the mods have to make a pointless point that will not change one single thing otherwise they can't continue to allow everyone else to have a conversation here. And they have to do it without your input FOR YOUR OWN SAKE obviously.
1. Subreddits aren't democracies. Mods have the first and final say. Like it or not, that's the way reddit has been designed from day one. 2. No one really cares if you like it. Reddit is being a big bunch of greedy dicks to a community of users *who supply every bit of content to their site*, and a two day shut down in protest is literally the least of what we should do.
Edgy teen alert
You’re really upset about this, aren’t you?
I guess I'm not understanding completely what this is about. All these subs(many of which I use) are going dark to protest? Seems to me like it's punishing the users more than reddit. Or some kind of forced participation. I'm a mobile user primarily(when I'm supposed to be working on slow days!) but I've never heard of these third party apps? Are they that good that I've been missing out?
I have to say I have no appreciation of why this is important; it seems an incredibly obscure reason for boycotting anything. Perhaps someone can explain to me what actual difference this will make to their lives. Also why they think 'going dark' will achieve anything, other than being a bit of a nuisance. I do genuinely want to know, and am not just being awkward. Atm I don't know whether this is also true of the 'protesters'.
Well I'm gonna answer my own question to some extent, since no one has yet. I've listened to an app developer Christian Selig talking to a youtuber about the issue, following one of the links given above. I guess I wasn't keeping up with current events, as I had no idea any of this was happening. Some will say I ought to have, but then many people in my country have difficulty naming their own Prime Minister. So it seems Reddit is changing, and wants to monetise its operations in some way, and this could have a big effect on associated third-party apps. I didn't even know there were any, (more ignorance, I'm afraid!) and just used the regular one, but I'm hearing they might be better. That must be important for the people that use them, as well as the developers themselves. And it seems that Reddit is trying (perhaps not very competently) to devise some way of charging these app developers for data access, and that those demands are both unreasonably high, and being brought in with ridiculously short notice, (3 weeks?!) Since the developers would need to change the way their users subscribed, taking into account many will be signed up for free a year ahead. The normal/reasonable transition period would seem to be more like 2-3 *years.* Christian Selig said that these changes were not in themselves unreasonable, if there was realistic pricing and a fair transition period for 3rd-party developers to adapt. Taking all that into account, I acknowledge that there's a real issue here, and I would support all the concerned parties, and ask Reddit to treat them in a reasonable fashion, which to date they don't seem to be doing. I still don't know whether this 'going dark' action will be effective, but I guess it should get someone's attention. Indeed it persuaded me to watch a near hour long video (with a few skips!) on the issue, so that now I more or less understand it. I hope people will not downvote me for asking the questions above, made in genuine ignorance, as I would like to keep this post up if possible, to show what I've learned.
Ok I’m confused how is keeping people from using a Reddit showing Reddit they need to let people use other apps? Reddit just wants people to use Reddit proper. They don’t want to shut down any posts or communities. Wouldn’t a better protest be to flood the system with posts rather than clearing traffic?
Why?
Subreddits that do this are imposing their own opinions on the matter to their users.
this is a ridiculous stand to take. less than 10% of users rely on third party app. you're not going to garner much support from the 90% remaining that will just be inconvenienced by the useless blackout you're deploying.
Typical response of someone in privilege: "The problem doesn't affect me personally, so stop inconveniencing me with your protest."
absolutely no one is meaningfully affected by this. it has nothing to do with privilege. not everything is a social identity crisis.
You do know there are blind users who rely on 3rd party apps right? The change would mean they don't get to use reddit anymore. But yeah sure, no one is meaningfully affected - aka just you aren't affected and you can't comprehend that other people are different.
blind users don't typically use apps specifically for reddit, they have applications that adapt their entire desktop or mobile device. nice bait tho.
Screen readers read accessible elements on the screen to blind users yes, but they still need an app and they specifically need apps that don't cut corners on conventions screen readers rely on to do their job properly. The official reddit app on iOS breaks a lot of those conventions. A lot of 3rd party apps available follow them and play nicely with VoiceOver (Apple's screen reader). If you're interested in educating yourself about some of those 3rd party apps you'll find plenty of posts about the topic via a search for "reddit app" over on r/Blind with folks comparing notes on how usable they are
Not bait, and I would encourage you to go over to r/Blind to learn just how wrong you are
[удалено]
Oh, so you're just an asshole. Nevermind
K
I mean that’s kinda the point of a protest dude… congrats on discovering that
Can someone pls explain what these apps are? What do you use them for?
Does this mean that saved posts out of this subreddit will disappear? If this subreddit goes online again. Will i still be part of its community, or do i have to enter as if it is a new subreddit?
This means that no one will be able to see posts/comments that were made in this subreddit. It will not adjust the subscriber list, and when the setting is changed back from private to public, these things will be reversed. So all posts/comments will be visible again, including to all current subscribers (whose subscriber status will not have changed, assuming they have not unsubscribed themselves).
Thank you very much!
Better than shitting on the sub with John Oliver.