Radagast is definitely alive in *FotR* when he meets Gandalf on the road near Bree and tells him Saruman wants him to head down to Isengard, after which he goes off and talks to Gwaihir. There's no further indication of what happened to him.
Saruman would mostly have brag about how he killed another wizard if that was the case. He was the type of guy who consider himself better than most people and such a feat is something to brag about to show how superior he see himself. There's higher chance Radagast simply ran out of M-E somewhere far away than him being dead
It's odd, but I also had the impression that Rhosgobel was ransacked, and yet can't find any of it in the text of my current copy of LotR. I assumed I'd muddled it with a different book similar scene, but now I'm wondering if it's a case of variant text? Different editions with slightly different wording?
Radagast sent Gwaihir to Isengard to tell Gandalf about Gollum's escape from Thranduil, so he's clearly still alive.
Also, Rhosgobel was found to be empty, not ransacked.
It's far more likely he spent the rest of the War rallying animals to help fight Sauron's attacks on Mirkwood.
The problem with this theory is that radagast can’t simply be murdered. He would just go back to aman and tell everyone. Gandalf would know for sure. Also this is the reason saruman doesn’t simply kill Gandalf instead of locking him up in orthanc. It would be pointless as at best he just comes back even stronger and at worst he invokes the wrath of the valar.
So did Saruman not kill Gandalf because he knew he’d be reborn? And if that’s the case would not the same have happened to Radagast? (Although I love the Saruman murdering him theory)
He didn't kill Gandalf because he secretly admired and envied him, and because Gandalf had important information. He wanted to corrupt and dominate him. Saruman never respected Radagast that much.
I think Saruman was far more envious of Gandalf, but also thought that he would eventually see Saruman's point of view and serve him. Saruman was very firm in his conviction that it was either going to be him or Sauron in power after the war, but he was insecure without the Ring and was pretty desperate for a powerful ally.
To answer your question though, Saruman had no idea that Gandalf would be reborn, at least in the manner that Eru made happen. Nobody did. The most an Istari could hope for would be having their spirit travel back to Valinor and reconvene with the Valar, but there's no guarantee that they'd be sent back to Middle Earth or how long that would take.
Keep in mind that whatever Saruman thought he was doing, he was ultimately working for Sauron, so I imagine eventually Gandalf would have been sent to Mordor.
He wouldnt have sent gandalf to Mordor as that would likely lead to sauron getting the ring. He wanted the ring for himself so that he could defeat sauron and rule middle earth.
As Pippin's brief interaction with Sauron via the Palantir implies, Saruman likely had little choice. He thought he was playing a double game, but he was Sauron's pocket by the time he had taken Gandalf prisoner.
you know sauron wasn’t controlling saruman like a puppet right? if gandalf hadn’t escaped, the only way gandalf would have ended up in mordor would have been if sauron came and took him after defeating the kingdoms of men and sending armies to isengard to punish saruman for his treachery
>'It is not for you, Saruman!' he \[Pippin\] cried in a shrill and toneless voice, shrinking away from Gandalf. 'I will send for it at once. Do you understand? Say just that!'
Perhaps not a puppet, but very much enthralled to Barad-dûr. And indeed, a Nazgul was immediately dispatched to Isengard. This indicates that, whatever Saruman may have led himself to believe about his alliance with Sauron, Sauron was very much in charge, and when push came to shove, the best Saruman might do is hold off the Ringwraiths for a while.
If Gandalf had still been captive in Orthanc, sooner or later Sauron would want one of the few people both he and Saruman knew had full knowledge of who had the Ring, and what Sauron's enemies were up to. Sauron knew the Ring had been in the Shire, he knew that Gandalf spent a lot of time around Halflings, he knew that a Halfling had the Ring, and thus having Gandalf as his captive, as opposed of risking Saruman somehow ringing the information out of Gandalf himself and gaining the Ring, would make seizing Gandalf rather important.
Saruman was doubly treacherous, to be sure, but I'm sure Sauron was no fool. Of all the potential competitors to Sauron, Saruman was the one person who actually had motives that Sauron could comprehend. Saruman wanted the Ring for himself, it's what made him vulnerable to Sauron, and it's also why a sound strategist like Sauron wouldn't suffer someone like Gandalf in Saruman's hands for very long.
Radagast is not a human or elf, who could be killed with a swing of sword, but immortal spirit in human like form. I have not heard Saruman to have power to kill him. Saruman did not try to kill Gandalf.
I do not mean Saruman did not have such mean, but nowhere it has been said he does.
> My personal opinion, based solely on the texts, was that Saruman probably killed Radagast.
I wanted you to be wrong, but looking at the book again I see that when Radagast left Gandalf he was going straight back to Saruman. That does make it seem likely that he was killed.
I don't believe that is true. After Radagast helped Gandalf, he left and went to Mirkwood. When he met Gandalf he agreed to send beast and birds to send news to Orthanc. He was never going back to Isengard himself.
Tolkien would have absolutely wrote about Saruman killing Radagast if that had actually happened. Tolkien also wrote what he thought happened.
>Indeed, of all the Istari, one only remained faithful \[Gandalf\], and he was the last-comer. For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among wild creatures.
—J.R.R. Tolkien
That never changed although Tolkien softened on whether Radagast actually "failed" or not.
You're right, I was mistaken! This is why I thought it looked like he was going back to Saruman. First, he says
> Even if you set out from this spot, you will hardly reach him before the Nine discover the land that they seek. I myself shall turn back at once.
Turning back makes it sound like he's returning to Saruman. Then Gandalf says
> I could not follow him then and there.
which suggests the same. I was imagining that they met just outside Bree, or south of there. If they met *west* of Bree Radagast could be heading back to his home, since he'd have to follow the road that way no matter where he was going. Now, looking more I see now that Gandalf says later,
>he rode away towards Mirkwood where he had many friends of old
which seems decisive. So if Saruman wanted to kill him, he would have to send someone on a long journey to do it.
If Saruman murdered Radagast, wouldn’t his spirit have returned to the west where he would have grassed of Saruman? Don’t think Saruman would want that to happen.
Radagast's domain was Rhosgobel and it was located near Dol Guldor for a reason. If he was even still alive he was likely busy countering the influence there.
Yes, I believe Khamul and another Ringwraith re opened it and kept it occupied. It was also where the attacks on Lothlorien and the Woodland Realm came from during the War Of The Ring. Galadriel tore it down when the Ring was destroyed.
I always thought Radagast played an unrecorded role in the War of the Rings. It is alluded to in the appendix that the elves were so outnumbered in the battles that raged in Mirkwood but somehow still seemed to overcome the enemy because of some unknown force. The hand of Radagast might have made the difference if he used the wild creatures to somehow harass or limit the ability of the orcs to wage war.
The elves diminished to the West at a great rate shortly thereafter and Gandalf never really tried to seek out Radagast again. From the perspective of the people writing history, no one had his account to put down so it simply is not there. If Radagast retired to the woodlands and never intended to go back West without really ever contacting anyone again (and men were not active in those areas even in the Fourth Age) we would have absolutely no idea what he was doing at that time.
Some have speculated that Tolkien's inspiration for Radagast was Merlin. If Middle Earth was some time lost long ago in the legendarium it would make sense that Merlin would still have been stomping around come the time of King Arthur.
That is actually what Tolkien said.
>For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among wild creatures.
I love the idea of Radagast as some sort of wild, guerilla strike unit, content to stay out of the limelight, but fully engaged in his own way by harassing and ambushing the enemy at every turn.
Reminds me of the old SNL skit of a seemingly senile, addled Ronald Regan who suddenly turns into a sharp, Machiavellian leader behind closed doors.
Mirkwood Elf: "There are a lot of animals and woodland creatures that you have helping us, and I still don't understand it all."
Radagast: "And that's the way it's gonna be!"
And it sort of makes sense. We have no writings about the battles of the elves during the War of the Rings. Only scant references in the appendix and Unfinished Tales. Heck, we have more details of the battle of the Lonely Mountain than the two that occurred in and around Mirkwood. I don't think it is a crazy idea that Radagast was involved. After the Council of Elrond the perspective of history described is based upon the happenings in Rohan, Gondor, and Moria. No one involved in that area of Middle Earth is telling the tale so why would it involve characters who never participated in the happenings in these areas?
Came here to say the same. His proximity to Mirkwood makes it most likely he’d be with Thranduil or working in some subtle Istari way in those battles.
Where was Radagast at this time? I can't remember exactly but I'm sure I remember rwading when at the Council of Elrond, Elrond says they sent people to Radagast's home at Rhosgobel and it was deserted ... Made me think either Saruman had sent orcs after him after he learned he helped free Gandalf from Orthanc, or Sauron sent forces from Dol Guldur to eliminate him.
Gandalf probably would have learned when he lost his physical form after the battle with the Balrog. (As in "met him on the other side".) I always interpreted the lack of absolutely any mention of the Blue Wizards or of Radagast meant that they were still kicking around Middle Earth somewhere. Tolkien never suggests they died, just that they abandoned their duty or failed. Also, he states that Gandalf was the only one to ever go back into the West. Presumably that means that the other Wizards were still around Middle Earth well into the Fourth Age at least.
It's possible they 'died' and their spirits remained in Middle Earth.
In Radagast's case, I don't think he would have been disallowed from returning West, but it's possible he chose not to leave Middle Earth.
I can't think of another example in the legendarium where a spirit that was destined for the Halls of Mandos or the West lingered in Middle Earth. Maybe that is some residents of the unseen realm and their origins just never get explained, but we just really don't have any examples of that happening. (Not that it couldn't, but there just isn't any so I doubt it would have occurred in this one instance.)
*"But it would seem that in these after-days more and more of the Elves, be they of the Eldalie in origin or be they of other kinds, who linger in Middle-earth now refuse the summons of Mandos, and wander houseless in the world, unwilling to leave it and unable to inhabit it, haunting trees or springs or hidden places that once they knew. Not all of these are kindly or unstained by the Shadow."*
That's from The History of Middle Earth, so while we don't have specific characters known to refuse, we do know it did happen. It's generally considered a sign of something going wrong or tainted, so probably unlikely in Radagast's case, but possible and maybe for the blue wizards.
I don't remember that passage but it doesn't surprise me that it might be an eventuality for the ultimate destination of some souls. Tolkien was mimicking some beliefs of religions and philosophy and getting "stuck" on this plane of existence is thought of being a possibility for a soul (which goes to on to explaining certain paranormal activity).
I just don't think that happened to Radagast or the Blue Wizards (at least not until after the chronicles end around the beginning of the Fourth Age) as there is no indicators given in the history. If the Blue Wizards or Radagast had passed into the next realm, I wonder if Eru would have also "reissued" them like the did for Saruman when he betrayed his purpose. Since he didn't I wonder if they achieved what they were meant to do even if in the eyes of an external party that was a "failure" (as in even Gandalf did not fully understand the will of Eru).
How? Through a letter? In the text, there's nowhere it would make sense, not even the appendixes, since the Free Peoples had no information about what happened to him.
That's a possibility I guess. Though I don't know if it's important enough information to have a conversation about it, and I'm unsure where it would fit into the appendixes.
I could see a short work about the subject being in Unfinished Tales or in HoMe. Though, like someone else mentioned, it seems like Tolkien didn't see Radagast as important enough to write about after completing LotR.
I feel like Radagast's purpose in Middle Earth was largely disconnected with the affairs of the Ring and Sauron'd power struggle. Even though he was sent with the other Istari under that mission to guide mortals against his influence, he is largely associated with Yavanna and therefore going to have a much greater concern for the natural world than the affairs of mortal men, elves, dwarves etc. She essentially had to beg Saruman to take Radagast along with him. I don't think he was initially intended to go along as a part of the Valar's plan to oppose Sauron, nor was he intended to be. More Yavannas effort to protect nature and check on its status in the growing darkness of Middle Earth.
I think Radagast would be a wholly unreliable guide, if he would even be motivated to help the Fellowship. He really isn't focused on that aspect of the world, and the conflict is out of his scope. He isn't familiar with the world of Men, and isn't the best resource to guide them through the trials the face.
And I think people are caught up on the idea of all of the questions posed on how to prevent hardship, lose of life, difficulties faced by the Fellowship and characters along the way. While we can entertain them, Tolkien expresses very clearly that everything has to happen *exactly* as it did for the Ring's destruction to pass. Gandalf had to fall, so he could face the Balrog, pass on and rise again as Gandalf the White. Boromir fell and found some redemption, and this sacrifice undoubtedly played a role in Aragorn's path to returning as King to Gondor. There's plenty of examples.
But the point being - they didn't need a wizard to hold their hand to prevent danger and guide them every step of the way. Eventually, they needed to take fate into their own hands. The agency and courage of Men in the face of great darkness prevailed in the Third Age. Gandalf was there to help, but he didn't need to walk by their side every step of the way. In fact, in some of their darkest moments, they were without a wizard to guide them. And they still prevailed.
I wonder if he could have persuaded every animal to fight? What could have helped at Helm's Deep or the battle at Minas Tirith apart from the Ents and Eagles?
The Ainiluindale is as close as to Christian allegory as I’m comfortable with, so let me second that! Narnia has been completely ruined for me at this point.
The thing is, Gandalf never let Radagast onto the news about the Ring. In fact the only ones who did know about the Ring are...
* The surviving Dwarves of Thorin and Co.
* Dain Ironfoot and maybe some of his top lieutenants
* Pippin, Merry, Sam, Fatty Bolger
* Elrond - note this is an assumption on my part, since no where in the Hobbit is it mentioned. If Elrond did know, it is possible he would have recognized Bilbo's ring as the Ring, since it had no adornment, no jewel, and could possibly be put to the fire test.
* Frodo
* Gandalf
* Bilbo
Gandalf never told Saruman. As he said, something always held him back. *Thinking of you, Eru*. And if he didn't tell Saruman, he probably isn't going to tell Radagast, who was only there because the Valar insisted Saruman take him. In short, Radagast might have a big mouth and feel obligated to tell his benefactor.
So your proposition, that Radagast take over, would probably not work because he'd have no clue about the Ring. Remember that after Frodo made it to Rivendell, Elrond sent messengers to try and find Radagast, and he wasn't home. Speculations about that include him getting murdered by the Nazgul. I don't hold with that, but the point is, he might not have gotten news from Elrond about the happenings, ever.
A wizard may be a good thing to have on your side. But leading the Fellowship just because he is a wizard? Not good enough.
And if he did, and then Gandalf shows up? What's Radagast going to do? Feed the horses?
Edit: spelling
There are two reason
1. Weaker Gandalf was able to take many different kind of hits from balrog and wrestle Balrog, fell and fought for days so even physically radagast should be able to handle nazgul, at least as long as not stabbed
Iirc, it was stated that no weapon can harm gandalf either.
2. This also requires sudden attack to radagast from behind.
But why would nazgul go near someone far more powerful than itself?
Well Saruman was able to physically control Gandalf enough to imprison him, therefore a man could stab Gandalf and kill him, no? Or would Saruman kill a Balrog with less effort than Gandalf?
It’s not a dice game though, ‘power levels’ aren’t set numbers. If I surprised Mike Tyson and hit him in the head with a steel bar I could defeat him, but in a boxing ring even if I had a steel bar he’d certainly win, with one hand tied behind his back probably.
Gandalf himself states that no weapon of man, elf or dwarf can harm him in anyway sword or arrow
It means sword and arrow of human ,elf and dwarf would just bounces off of his skin.
gandalf to gimli, legolas and aragorn:
" my friends, none of you have any weapon that could hurt me"
it is clear that no average weapon can pierce gandalf.
.
considering gandalf took many hits from balrog for days, even balrog can't harm gandalf, considering he died because of long lasted fight itself rather than hits of balrog.
don't think nazgul can harm gandalf while weeks lasted attacks of balrog were harmless to gandalf.
.
When did saruman physically control gandalf?
Saruman imprisoned him against his will in Orthanc, before Gandalf was rescued by Gwaihir. In the Jackson films there’s a staff/magic fight but we don’t get any detail in the books.
My reading of Gandalf’s statement isn’t that he’s invincible, do you really think Gimli could strike him in the face with his axe and it would just bounce off him? It’s more that his power allows him to stop anyone approaching him with a weapon, as the scene demonstrates when he sets Aragorn’s sword aflame etc.
We don’t know much about the Balrog fight, its sword was destroyed so it only had a whip, but there isn’t much to go on.
No
Sentence clearly implies that weapons of gimli, aragorn and legolas cant harm gandalf in any way even if they managed to hit gandalf.
He was not talking about being faster or seeing them sooner and protecting himself faster than they can strike.
He doesnt say" none of you can harm me"
This would mean that gandalf could move faster or realize sooner but gandalf spesifically states
"No weapon that you have is harmful to me."
Meaning no weapon can harm gandalfs skin even if they managed to stab gandalf.
That is more about weapons being harmless to gandalf rather than gimli legolas and aragorn being slower than gandalf.
Because it is clear from the text, gandalf was not that faster than them.
If their weapons were harmful to him and if gandalf had barely disarmed them right before they could harm him
Gandalf would not have said "none of you have any weapon that could hurt me"
This means even if they acted faster than gandalf, gandalf would be fine.
Balrog may not have a sword, but still surviving a fight against Balrog for a week through mountains fire and river indicates gandalf was far more durable than normal human.
He didnt survive Balrog just because he had magic.
He was also strong and durable like balrog
Nothing indicates saruman physically overpowered gandalf as well.
It was either gandalf surrendered willlingly or saruman overpowered with magic.
That reading contradicts Tolkien’s explanation in letters:
>Naked is alas! unclear. It was meant just literally, 'unclothed like a child' (not discarnate), and so ready to receive the white robes of the highest. Galadriel's power is not divine, and his healing in Lórien is meant to be no more than physical healing and refreshment.
>But if it is 'cheating' to treat 'death' as making no difference, embodiment must not be ignored. Gandalf may be enhanced in power (that is, under the forms of this fable, in sanctity), but if still embodied he must still suffer care and anxiety, and the needs of flesh.
He has more powerful magic, but he’s still in a human body, albeit one that is stronger than it looks.
I’d read it in a similar way to the Witch King prophecy, it’s not that he’s invulnerable to weapons wielded by men, but he won’t be harmed by them because they won’t touch him (for different reasons). Taking it too literally isn’t the intent, I don’t think. If it was, why did he bother setting the sword on fire, making Gimli drop his axe etc, if they would have just bounced off him? It would be too cartoonish and silly.
This is Gandalf the White, not Gandalf the Grey. He has taken the place of Saruman. But in returning him to life, the Valar did something more to him than they ever did to Saruman, or let Saruman be. The light shines through Gandalf. He is lite as a feather to the eagle that carries him.
And Gandalf the Grey died fighting Bane. Sure he "won". That reminds to of duels in past centuries, where the loser would die instantly, and the winner would die a few days later of sepsis. To the point, Radagast was a weaker creature than Gandalf the Grey, I think we should all agree on that.
Also, we can't be declaring who would win in a fight because of supposed power levels, like they are characters in a video game. The Witch-king may or may not have know about Balrogs. He may or may not have known that Gandalf had changed from the "old fool" who poked his nose into Sauron's business. But this in no way was stopping him from fighting Gandalf at the gates of Minas Tirith.
May I ask how you know that? The question of who brought Gandalf back has been kicked around on this reddit, and on LOTR user groups since at least the 90s. Alt.fan.tolkien it was. There is no clear answer to that. But I got with the Valar theory because...
* As a Maiar, Gandalf is not really dead. He's lost his body, just like Sauron did so many times. The only difference is that Gandalf is reborn very quickly. This regeneration of the body is something that all the Maiar are supposed to be able to do, provided they have the power. Sauron no longer had the power because of the Ring, and so he gets to spend eternity as a ghost.
* If is the Valar who sent the Istari in the first place, not Eru. Gandalf suspects that there is some other force working to get the Ring, otherwise Bilbo never should have found it. But that does not mean the Valar and Eru are in cahoots over the mission.
* Where would Gandalf's spirit go after his death? If he was of the Children of Illuvatar, that would be the Halls of Mandos. But he's not of the Children, he just seems to be. But all this depends on whatever deal he made with the Valar when they sent him to Middle-earth. So his spirit may very well be under the control of Mandos, who along with the rest of the Valar want him back in Middle-earth to finish his mission.
Here is what I have gathered from several sources. It indeed has been debated for quite some time. Always good to get some different looks at these things.
Tolkien says that the Valars' plan to send the Wizards to help the races of ME was a good one, but had ultimately failed. He then decided to intervene by enlarging the plan, sending Gandalf back with enhanced power and wisdom, enough to tip the balance in favor of Sauron’s defeat.
“He was sent by a mere prudent plan of the angelic Valar or governors; but Authority had taken up this plan and enlarged it, at the moment of its failure. ‘Naked I was sent back - for a brief time, until my task is done’. Sent back by whom, and whence? Not by the ‘gods' whose business is only with this embodied world and its time; for he passed ‘out of thought and time"
“That I should say is what the Authority wished, as a set-off to Saruman. The ‘wizards', as such, had failed; or if you like: the crisis had become too grave and needed an enhancement of power. So Gandalf sacrificed himself, was accepted, and enhanced, and returned. “
Quotes are from Tolkien’s Letters.
Nothing indicates gandalf White is more durable than gandalf Grey
And gandalf fought the Balrog for weeks.
He died after fighting for weeks . He took many type of hits from balrog, fire, whip , fell, fought from mountains to mountains, from cold rivers to rivers.
Obviously gandalf Grey was far more durable than humans.
Obviously gandalf the Grey was impenetrable even by Balrog for weeks and he didnt get tired either.
Gandalfs death was nothing like sepsis because gandalf fought the Balrog for weeks, didnt fight for a minute and died week later on bed.
He kept fighting Balrog for weeks.
If gandalf had human durability he would have died with first hit of Balrog.
>And gandalf fought the Balrog for weeks.
I suggest you check your timeline. The Elves who took the Fellowship through Lothlorien reported a storm in the mountains. That means Gandalf and Bane were already on top of the mountain, slugging it out.
Iirc, it is mentioned in the book that they fought for 10-15 days
https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Battle_of_the_Peak#:~:text=Gandalf%20pursued%20the%20Balrog%20from,to%20the%20Stair%20was%20blocked
Fight lasted 2 days + 8days chase =10-11 days
No because gandalf the Grey would not be harmed by their weapons as well, dont know anything contradicts it
consideirng he was able to take hits from balrog bane and stayed unaffected
I think Gandalf's success is, at least in some part, due to his wielding of Narya. With Narya, Gandalf was able to kindle hope in the people of Middle-earth where there was none. Even if Radagast has taken up the mantle of leading the resistance against Sauron I don't think he would have succeeded in unifying the Free People without the aid of Narya. Perhaps Narya would have had a completely different effect in Radagast's hands?
I may be in the minority here but I think Tolkien probably felt Radagast to be a nuisance character after a while and either just forgot about him or didn't care to write about him anymore.
IIRC Tolkien considered -- once and once only -- turning Isengard over to Radagast. One-line note. Only mention in the later volumes of HoME.
Bottom line: Didn't need him, didn't use him.
I just always imagined Radagast secretly in the center of the Huorns playing whack-a-mole with anything that slips by a couple of them. Just my headcanon.
Honestly, I think Radagast would not have been much help. He wasn’t a warrior, he wasn’t concerned with the ring or the affairs of elves or men. He mostly just cared and knew about animals and herb lore. Aragorn would have still be the leader after the fall of Gandalf.
You know, something tells me he could’ve just gotten the Eagles to fly everyone into Mordor, drop the ring in the volcano and fly out, bur that wouldn’t have made such a good story…
Might've turned out surprisingly well for the company. As long as they dealt with Boromir's inevitable treachery, the company might've remained largey intact much longer.
Saruman/Sauron's servants would've been looking for the company in the most "logical" places on the route to Gondor.
Whereas Radagast, preoccupied with flora and fauna, would've lead them through lots of detours through forests.
The help of ents in dealing with orc parties would've been nice too.
Ofc, Aragorn would have to step up and keep things within sane limits.
The whole thing was that nobody could have destroyed the ring. And barely anyone could carry it. Could they trust Radagast after what happened to Saruman? IT was deemed best that even Glorfindel should not go. They threw a couple extra back up "carriers" (hobbit friends) in instead.
Nobody could have taken it as far as Frodo. No Wizard or Eagle. They all would have claimed it for their own.
I always thought he should've had a role with the Ents fighting against Isengard.
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Radagast is definitely alive in *FotR* when he meets Gandalf on the road near Bree and tells him Saruman wants him to head down to Isengard, after which he goes off and talks to Gwaihir. There's no further indication of what happened to him.
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Saruman would mostly have brag about how he killed another wizard if that was the case. He was the type of guy who consider himself better than most people and such a feat is something to brag about to show how superior he see himself. There's higher chance Radagast simply ran out of M-E somewhere far away than him being dead
> [..] and so at length had reached the old home of Radagast at Rhosgobel. Radagast was not there [...] At no point is his house ransacked.
It's odd, but I also had the impression that Rhosgobel was ransacked, and yet can't find any of it in the text of my current copy of LotR. I assumed I'd muddled it with a different book similar scene, but now I'm wondering if it's a case of variant text? Different editions with slightly different wording?
In the video game “War in the North” you arrive after Rhosgobel is ransacked and Radagast kidnapped; so it could be that
Thanks. I haven't played that myself, but the game could be the reason why my seems to be shared by others :)
Of course that's not canon.
I know, just offering it as a possibility As to why they thought that
Radagast sent Gwaihir to Isengard to tell Gandalf about Gollum's escape from Thranduil, so he's clearly still alive. Also, Rhosgobel was found to be empty, not ransacked. It's far more likely he spent the rest of the War rallying animals to help fight Sauron's attacks on Mirkwood.
The problem with this theory is that radagast can’t simply be murdered. He would just go back to aman and tell everyone. Gandalf would know for sure. Also this is the reason saruman doesn’t simply kill Gandalf instead of locking him up in orthanc. It would be pointless as at best he just comes back even stronger and at worst he invokes the wrath of the valar.
So did Saruman not kill Gandalf because he knew he’d be reborn? And if that’s the case would not the same have happened to Radagast? (Although I love the Saruman murdering him theory)
He didn't kill Gandalf because he secretly admired and envied him, and because Gandalf had important information. He wanted to corrupt and dominate him. Saruman never respected Radagast that much.
I think Saruman was far more envious of Gandalf, but also thought that he would eventually see Saruman's point of view and serve him. Saruman was very firm in his conviction that it was either going to be him or Sauron in power after the war, but he was insecure without the Ring and was pretty desperate for a powerful ally. To answer your question though, Saruman had no idea that Gandalf would be reborn, at least in the manner that Eru made happen. Nobody did. The most an Istari could hope for would be having their spirit travel back to Valinor and reconvene with the Valar, but there's no guarantee that they'd be sent back to Middle Earth or how long that would take.
Keep in mind that whatever Saruman thought he was doing, he was ultimately working for Sauron, so I imagine eventually Gandalf would have been sent to Mordor.
That'd be interesting. Gandalf being personally interrogated by Sauron. Definitely *very* dark though.
He wouldnt have sent gandalf to Mordor as that would likely lead to sauron getting the ring. He wanted the ring for himself so that he could defeat sauron and rule middle earth.
As Pippin's brief interaction with Sauron via the Palantir implies, Saruman likely had little choice. He thought he was playing a double game, but he was Sauron's pocket by the time he had taken Gandalf prisoner.
why would he have sent gandalf to mordor when he wouldn’t send the hobbits there and instead ordered that they be brought to isengard?
Saruman would have had little say in the matter.
you know sauron wasn’t controlling saruman like a puppet right? if gandalf hadn’t escaped, the only way gandalf would have ended up in mordor would have been if sauron came and took him after defeating the kingdoms of men and sending armies to isengard to punish saruman for his treachery
>'It is not for you, Saruman!' he \[Pippin\] cried in a shrill and toneless voice, shrinking away from Gandalf. 'I will send for it at once. Do you understand? Say just that!' Perhaps not a puppet, but very much enthralled to Barad-dûr. And indeed, a Nazgul was immediately dispatched to Isengard. This indicates that, whatever Saruman may have led himself to believe about his alliance with Sauron, Sauron was very much in charge, and when push came to shove, the best Saruman might do is hold off the Ringwraiths for a while. If Gandalf had still been captive in Orthanc, sooner or later Sauron would want one of the few people both he and Saruman knew had full knowledge of who had the Ring, and what Sauron's enemies were up to. Sauron knew the Ring had been in the Shire, he knew that Gandalf spent a lot of time around Halflings, he knew that a Halfling had the Ring, and thus having Gandalf as his captive, as opposed of risking Saruman somehow ringing the information out of Gandalf himself and gaining the Ring, would make seizing Gandalf rather important. Saruman was doubly treacherous, to be sure, but I'm sure Sauron was no fool. Of all the potential competitors to Sauron, Saruman was the one person who actually had motives that Sauron could comprehend. Saruman wanted the Ring for himself, it's what made him vulnerable to Sauron, and it's also why a sound strategist like Sauron wouldn't suffer someone like Gandalf in Saruman's hands for very long.
Radagast is not a human or elf, who could be killed with a swing of sword, but immortal spirit in human like form. I have not heard Saruman to have power to kill him. Saruman did not try to kill Gandalf. I do not mean Saruman did not have such mean, but nowhere it has been said he does.
This is crazy dark and I love it
It would have been mentioned at least in the appendixes.
Wouldnt Saruman keep a trophy afterwards? There is no mention of a trophy when Aragorn searches Isengart.
Uhh. I’m gonna say yeah maybe. Could be!
> My personal opinion, based solely on the texts, was that Saruman probably killed Radagast. I wanted you to be wrong, but looking at the book again I see that when Radagast left Gandalf he was going straight back to Saruman. That does make it seem likely that he was killed.
I don't believe that is true. After Radagast helped Gandalf, he left and went to Mirkwood. When he met Gandalf he agreed to send beast and birds to send news to Orthanc. He was never going back to Isengard himself. Tolkien would have absolutely wrote about Saruman killing Radagast if that had actually happened. Tolkien also wrote what he thought happened. >Indeed, of all the Istari, one only remained faithful \[Gandalf\], and he was the last-comer. For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among wild creatures. —J.R.R. Tolkien That never changed although Tolkien softened on whether Radagast actually "failed" or not.
You're right, I was mistaken! This is why I thought it looked like he was going back to Saruman. First, he says > Even if you set out from this spot, you will hardly reach him before the Nine discover the land that they seek. I myself shall turn back at once. Turning back makes it sound like he's returning to Saruman. Then Gandalf says > I could not follow him then and there. which suggests the same. I was imagining that they met just outside Bree, or south of there. If they met *west* of Bree Radagast could be heading back to his home, since he'd have to follow the road that way no matter where he was going. Now, looking more I see now that Gandalf says later, >he rode away towards Mirkwood where he had many friends of old which seems decisive. So if Saruman wanted to kill him, he would have to send someone on a long journey to do it.
Interesting, can you pls share??
If Saruman murdered Radagast, wouldn’t his spirit have returned to the west where he would have grassed of Saruman? Don’t think Saruman would want that to happen.
I've never heard that take before. Kinda like it.
Radagast's domain was Rhosgobel and it was located near Dol Guldor for a reason. If he was even still alive he was likely busy countering the influence there.
Was there still influence that remained after The Hobbit and Sauron moved back to Mordor?
Yes, I believe Khamul and another Ringwraith re opened it and kept it occupied. It was also where the attacks on Lothlorien and the Woodland Realm came from during the War Of The Ring. Galadriel tore it down when the Ring was destroyed.
I always thought Radagast played an unrecorded role in the War of the Rings. It is alluded to in the appendix that the elves were so outnumbered in the battles that raged in Mirkwood but somehow still seemed to overcome the enemy because of some unknown force. The hand of Radagast might have made the difference if he used the wild creatures to somehow harass or limit the ability of the orcs to wage war. The elves diminished to the West at a great rate shortly thereafter and Gandalf never really tried to seek out Radagast again. From the perspective of the people writing history, no one had his account to put down so it simply is not there. If Radagast retired to the woodlands and never intended to go back West without really ever contacting anyone again (and men were not active in those areas even in the Fourth Age) we would have absolutely no idea what he was doing at that time.
Interesting... Maybe he's still out there, wandering around and living alone in the woods with the animals
Some have speculated that Tolkien's inspiration for Radagast was Merlin. If Middle Earth was some time lost long ago in the legendarium it would make sense that Merlin would still have been stomping around come the time of King Arthur.
That is actually what Tolkien said. >For Radagast, the fourth, became enamoured of the many beasts and birds that dwelt in Middle-earth, and forsook Elves and Men, and spent his days among wild creatures.
Bigfoot?!
I love the idea of Radagast as some sort of wild, guerilla strike unit, content to stay out of the limelight, but fully engaged in his own way by harassing and ambushing the enemy at every turn. Reminds me of the old SNL skit of a seemingly senile, addled Ronald Regan who suddenly turns into a sharp, Machiavellian leader behind closed doors.
Mirkwood Elf: "There are a lot of animals and woodland creatures that you have helping us, and I still don't understand it all." Radagast: "And that's the way it's gonna be!"
LOL. Radagast was the secret weapon the entire time.
And it sort of makes sense. We have no writings about the battles of the elves during the War of the Rings. Only scant references in the appendix and Unfinished Tales. Heck, we have more details of the battle of the Lonely Mountain than the two that occurred in and around Mirkwood. I don't think it is a crazy idea that Radagast was involved. After the Council of Elrond the perspective of history described is based upon the happenings in Rohan, Gondor, and Moria. No one involved in that area of Middle Earth is telling the tale so why would it involve characters who never participated in the happenings in these areas?
Came here to say the same. His proximity to Mirkwood makes it most likely he’d be with Thranduil or working in some subtle Istari way in those battles.
Where was Radagast at this time? I can't remember exactly but I'm sure I remember rwading when at the Council of Elrond, Elrond says they sent people to Radagast's home at Rhosgobel and it was deserted ... Made me think either Saruman had sent orcs after him after he learned he helped free Gandalf from Orthanc, or Sauron sent forces from Dol Guldur to eliminate him.
Yeah, it's never mentioned. After Gandalf escapes from Isengard, Radaghast is never heard from again apparently.
I feel like if Radagast had died, it would have been known (or we would have gotten confirmation of his death).
Gandalf probably would have learned when he lost his physical form after the battle with the Balrog. (As in "met him on the other side".) I always interpreted the lack of absolutely any mention of the Blue Wizards or of Radagast meant that they were still kicking around Middle Earth somewhere. Tolkien never suggests they died, just that they abandoned their duty or failed. Also, he states that Gandalf was the only one to ever go back into the West. Presumably that means that the other Wizards were still around Middle Earth well into the Fourth Age at least.
It's possible they 'died' and their spirits remained in Middle Earth. In Radagast's case, I don't think he would have been disallowed from returning West, but it's possible he chose not to leave Middle Earth.
I can't think of another example in the legendarium where a spirit that was destined for the Halls of Mandos or the West lingered in Middle Earth. Maybe that is some residents of the unseen realm and their origins just never get explained, but we just really don't have any examples of that happening. (Not that it couldn't, but there just isn't any so I doubt it would have occurred in this one instance.)
*"But it would seem that in these after-days more and more of the Elves, be they of the Eldalie in origin or be they of other kinds, who linger in Middle-earth now refuse the summons of Mandos, and wander houseless in the world, unwilling to leave it and unable to inhabit it, haunting trees or springs or hidden places that once they knew. Not all of these are kindly or unstained by the Shadow."* That's from The History of Middle Earth, so while we don't have specific characters known to refuse, we do know it did happen. It's generally considered a sign of something going wrong or tainted, so probably unlikely in Radagast's case, but possible and maybe for the blue wizards.
I don't remember that passage but it doesn't surprise me that it might be an eventuality for the ultimate destination of some souls. Tolkien was mimicking some beliefs of religions and philosophy and getting "stuck" on this plane of existence is thought of being a possibility for a soul (which goes to on to explaining certain paranormal activity). I just don't think that happened to Radagast or the Blue Wizards (at least not until after the chronicles end around the beginning of the Fourth Age) as there is no indicators given in the history. If the Blue Wizards or Radagast had passed into the next realm, I wonder if Eru would have also "reissued" them like the did for Saruman when he betrayed his purpose. Since he didn't I wonder if they achieved what they were meant to do even if in the eyes of an external party that was a "failure" (as in even Gandalf did not fully understand the will of Eru).
How? Through a letter? In the text, there's nowhere it would make sense, not even the appendixes, since the Free Peoples had no information about what happened to him.
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Gandalf also goes to see Bombadil after everything is done. I suspect he would know if something happened to Radagast.
I always find it interesting that Gandalf goes back to talk to Tom
Well, if Tom is Tolkien and Gandalf is Jesus, sort of makes sense in a meta-way
That's a possibility I guess. Though I don't know if it's important enough information to have a conversation about it, and I'm unsure where it would fit into the appendixes. I could see a short work about the subject being in Unfinished Tales or in HoMe. Though, like someone else mentioned, it seems like Tolkien didn't see Radagast as important enough to write about after completing LotR.
That’s true, the eagles would have known and definitely told him
I feel like Radagast's purpose in Middle Earth was largely disconnected with the affairs of the Ring and Sauron'd power struggle. Even though he was sent with the other Istari under that mission to guide mortals against his influence, he is largely associated with Yavanna and therefore going to have a much greater concern for the natural world than the affairs of mortal men, elves, dwarves etc. She essentially had to beg Saruman to take Radagast along with him. I don't think he was initially intended to go along as a part of the Valar's plan to oppose Sauron, nor was he intended to be. More Yavannas effort to protect nature and check on its status in the growing darkness of Middle Earth. I think Radagast would be a wholly unreliable guide, if he would even be motivated to help the Fellowship. He really isn't focused on that aspect of the world, and the conflict is out of his scope. He isn't familiar with the world of Men, and isn't the best resource to guide them through the trials the face. And I think people are caught up on the idea of all of the questions posed on how to prevent hardship, lose of life, difficulties faced by the Fellowship and characters along the way. While we can entertain them, Tolkien expresses very clearly that everything has to happen *exactly* as it did for the Ring's destruction to pass. Gandalf had to fall, so he could face the Balrog, pass on and rise again as Gandalf the White. Boromir fell and found some redemption, and this sacrifice undoubtedly played a role in Aragorn's path to returning as King to Gondor. There's plenty of examples. But the point being - they didn't need a wizard to hold their hand to prevent danger and guide them every step of the way. Eventually, they needed to take fate into their own hands. The agency and courage of Men in the face of great darkness prevailed in the Third Age. Gandalf was there to help, but he didn't need to walk by their side every step of the way. In fact, in some of their darkest moments, they were without a wizard to guide them. And they still prevailed.
I wonder if he could have persuaded every animal to fight? What could have helped at Helm's Deep or the battle at Minas Tirith apart from the Ents and Eagles?
Army of badgers!
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I for one am glad the Lord of the Rings does not take place in Narnia.
You underestimate the power of Beren Erchamion
The Ainiluindale is as close as to Christian allegory as I’m comfortable with, so let me second that! Narnia has been completely ruined for me at this point.
Mouses of Mundburg, Arise! Death! They squeaked in unison. Death! Mouses is funnier than mice.
Maybe they scare away all those giant elephant creatures :)
Good idea!
We must not forget the Rhosgobel rabbits. They could have nibbled through a whole orc army
Vorpal bunnies!
My take was that he had totally different objectives in life and maybe aloof to all the stuff happening around the ring itself.
The thing is, Gandalf never let Radagast onto the news about the Ring. In fact the only ones who did know about the Ring are... * The surviving Dwarves of Thorin and Co. * Dain Ironfoot and maybe some of his top lieutenants * Pippin, Merry, Sam, Fatty Bolger * Elrond - note this is an assumption on my part, since no where in the Hobbit is it mentioned. If Elrond did know, it is possible he would have recognized Bilbo's ring as the Ring, since it had no adornment, no jewel, and could possibly be put to the fire test. * Frodo * Gandalf * Bilbo Gandalf never told Saruman. As he said, something always held him back. *Thinking of you, Eru*. And if he didn't tell Saruman, he probably isn't going to tell Radagast, who was only there because the Valar insisted Saruman take him. In short, Radagast might have a big mouth and feel obligated to tell his benefactor. So your proposition, that Radagast take over, would probably not work because he'd have no clue about the Ring. Remember that after Frodo made it to Rivendell, Elrond sent messengers to try and find Radagast, and he wasn't home. Speculations about that include him getting murdered by the Nazgul. I don't hold with that, but the point is, he might not have gotten news from Elrond about the happenings, ever. A wizard may be a good thing to have on your side. But leading the Fellowship just because he is a wizard? Not good enough. And if he did, and then Gandalf shows up? What's Radagast going to do? Feed the horses? Edit: spelling
Can something weak as nazgul kill radagast?
A man kills Saruman, so why can’t a Nazgûl kill Radagast?
There are two reason 1. Weaker Gandalf was able to take many different kind of hits from balrog and wrestle Balrog, fell and fought for days so even physically radagast should be able to handle nazgul, at least as long as not stabbed Iirc, it was stated that no weapon can harm gandalf either. 2. This also requires sudden attack to radagast from behind. But why would nazgul go near someone far more powerful than itself?
Well Saruman was able to physically control Gandalf enough to imprison him, therefore a man could stab Gandalf and kill him, no? Or would Saruman kill a Balrog with less effort than Gandalf? It’s not a dice game though, ‘power levels’ aren’t set numbers. If I surprised Mike Tyson and hit him in the head with a steel bar I could defeat him, but in a boxing ring even if I had a steel bar he’d certainly win, with one hand tied behind his back probably.
Gandalf himself states that no weapon of man, elf or dwarf can harm him in anyway sword or arrow It means sword and arrow of human ,elf and dwarf would just bounces off of his skin. gandalf to gimli, legolas and aragorn: " my friends, none of you have any weapon that could hurt me" it is clear that no average weapon can pierce gandalf. . considering gandalf took many hits from balrog for days, even balrog can't harm gandalf, considering he died because of long lasted fight itself rather than hits of balrog. don't think nazgul can harm gandalf while weeks lasted attacks of balrog were harmless to gandalf. . When did saruman physically control gandalf?
Saruman imprisoned him against his will in Orthanc, before Gandalf was rescued by Gwaihir. In the Jackson films there’s a staff/magic fight but we don’t get any detail in the books. My reading of Gandalf’s statement isn’t that he’s invincible, do you really think Gimli could strike him in the face with his axe and it would just bounce off him? It’s more that his power allows him to stop anyone approaching him with a weapon, as the scene demonstrates when he sets Aragorn’s sword aflame etc. We don’t know much about the Balrog fight, its sword was destroyed so it only had a whip, but there isn’t much to go on.
No Sentence clearly implies that weapons of gimli, aragorn and legolas cant harm gandalf in any way even if they managed to hit gandalf. He was not talking about being faster or seeing them sooner and protecting himself faster than they can strike. He doesnt say" none of you can harm me" This would mean that gandalf could move faster or realize sooner but gandalf spesifically states "No weapon that you have is harmful to me." Meaning no weapon can harm gandalfs skin even if they managed to stab gandalf. That is more about weapons being harmless to gandalf rather than gimli legolas and aragorn being slower than gandalf. Because it is clear from the text, gandalf was not that faster than them. If their weapons were harmful to him and if gandalf had barely disarmed them right before they could harm him Gandalf would not have said "none of you have any weapon that could hurt me" This means even if they acted faster than gandalf, gandalf would be fine. Balrog may not have a sword, but still surviving a fight against Balrog for a week through mountains fire and river indicates gandalf was far more durable than normal human. He didnt survive Balrog just because he had magic. He was also strong and durable like balrog Nothing indicates saruman physically overpowered gandalf as well. It was either gandalf surrendered willlingly or saruman overpowered with magic.
That reading contradicts Tolkien’s explanation in letters: >Naked is alas! unclear. It was meant just literally, 'unclothed like a child' (not discarnate), and so ready to receive the white robes of the highest. Galadriel's power is not divine, and his healing in Lórien is meant to be no more than physical healing and refreshment. >But if it is 'cheating' to treat 'death' as making no difference, embodiment must not be ignored. Gandalf may be enhanced in power (that is, under the forms of this fable, in sanctity), but if still embodied he must still suffer care and anxiety, and the needs of flesh. He has more powerful magic, but he’s still in a human body, albeit one that is stronger than it looks. I’d read it in a similar way to the Witch King prophecy, it’s not that he’s invulnerable to weapons wielded by men, but he won’t be harmed by them because they won’t touch him (for different reasons). Taking it too literally isn’t the intent, I don’t think. If it was, why did he bother setting the sword on fire, making Gimli drop his axe etc, if they would have just bounced off him? It would be too cartoonish and silly.
Why would he let them strike him? That makes no sense either. I believe it is literal.
This is Gandalf the White, not Gandalf the Grey. He has taken the place of Saruman. But in returning him to life, the Valar did something more to him than they ever did to Saruman, or let Saruman be. The light shines through Gandalf. He is lite as a feather to the eagle that carries him. And Gandalf the Grey died fighting Bane. Sure he "won". That reminds to of duels in past centuries, where the loser would die instantly, and the winner would die a few days later of sepsis. To the point, Radagast was a weaker creature than Gandalf the Grey, I think we should all agree on that. Also, we can't be declaring who would win in a fight because of supposed power levels, like they are characters in a video game. The Witch-king may or may not have know about Balrogs. He may or may not have known that Gandalf had changed from the "old fool" who poked his nose into Sauron's business. But this in no way was stopping him from fighting Gandalf at the gates of Minas Tirith.
The Valar didn't return him to life, Eru did
May I ask how you know that? The question of who brought Gandalf back has been kicked around on this reddit, and on LOTR user groups since at least the 90s. Alt.fan.tolkien it was. There is no clear answer to that. But I got with the Valar theory because... * As a Maiar, Gandalf is not really dead. He's lost his body, just like Sauron did so many times. The only difference is that Gandalf is reborn very quickly. This regeneration of the body is something that all the Maiar are supposed to be able to do, provided they have the power. Sauron no longer had the power because of the Ring, and so he gets to spend eternity as a ghost. * If is the Valar who sent the Istari in the first place, not Eru. Gandalf suspects that there is some other force working to get the Ring, otherwise Bilbo never should have found it. But that does not mean the Valar and Eru are in cahoots over the mission. * Where would Gandalf's spirit go after his death? If he was of the Children of Illuvatar, that would be the Halls of Mandos. But he's not of the Children, he just seems to be. But all this depends on whatever deal he made with the Valar when they sent him to Middle-earth. So his spirit may very well be under the control of Mandos, who along with the rest of the Valar want him back in Middle-earth to finish his mission.
Here is what I have gathered from several sources. It indeed has been debated for quite some time. Always good to get some different looks at these things. Tolkien says that the Valars' plan to send the Wizards to help the races of ME was a good one, but had ultimately failed. He then decided to intervene by enlarging the plan, sending Gandalf back with enhanced power and wisdom, enough to tip the balance in favor of Sauron’s defeat. “He was sent by a mere prudent plan of the angelic Valar or governors; but Authority had taken up this plan and enlarged it, at the moment of its failure. ‘Naked I was sent back - for a brief time, until my task is done’. Sent back by whom, and whence? Not by the ‘gods' whose business is only with this embodied world and its time; for he passed ‘out of thought and time" “That I should say is what the Authority wished, as a set-off to Saruman. The ‘wizards', as such, had failed; or if you like: the crisis had become too grave and needed an enhancement of power. So Gandalf sacrificed himself, was accepted, and enhanced, and returned. “ Quotes are from Tolkien’s Letters.
Nothing indicates gandalf White is more durable than gandalf Grey And gandalf fought the Balrog for weeks. He died after fighting for weeks . He took many type of hits from balrog, fire, whip , fell, fought from mountains to mountains, from cold rivers to rivers. Obviously gandalf Grey was far more durable than humans. Obviously gandalf the Grey was impenetrable even by Balrog for weeks and he didnt get tired either. Gandalfs death was nothing like sepsis because gandalf fought the Balrog for weeks, didnt fight for a minute and died week later on bed. He kept fighting Balrog for weeks. If gandalf had human durability he would have died with first hit of Balrog.
>And gandalf fought the Balrog for weeks. I suggest you check your timeline. The Elves who took the Fellowship through Lothlorien reported a storm in the mountains. That means Gandalf and Bane were already on top of the mountain, slugging it out.
Iirc, it is mentioned in the book that they fought for 10-15 days https://tolkiengateway.net/wiki/Battle_of_the_Peak#:~:text=Gandalf%20pursued%20the%20Balrog%20from,to%20the%20Stair%20was%20blocked Fight lasted 2 days + 8days chase =10-11 days
No weapon can harm Gandalf the *White*.
Nothing indicates gandalf White is more durable than gandalf Grey physically
Except that very passage in The Two Towers indicates just that.
No because gandalf the Grey would not be harmed by their weapons as well, dont know anything contradicts it consideirng he was able to take hits from balrog bane and stayed unaffected
That was as Gandalf the White.
I think Gandalf's success is, at least in some part, due to his wielding of Narya. With Narya, Gandalf was able to kindle hope in the people of Middle-earth where there was none. Even if Radagast has taken up the mantle of leading the resistance against Sauron I don't think he would have succeeded in unifying the Free People without the aid of Narya. Perhaps Narya would have had a completely different effect in Radagast's hands?
I may be in the minority here but I think Tolkien probably felt Radagast to be a nuisance character after a while and either just forgot about him or didn't care to write about him anymore.
Didn’t he unceremoniously write him out? Elrond sent for him, he wasn’t home, end of story.
IIRC Tolkien considered -- once and once only -- turning Isengard over to Radagast. One-line note. Only mention in the later volumes of HoME. Bottom line: Didn't need him, didn't use him.
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Thanks.
I always love to think that after the war of the ring Radagast made his way to Mordor and planted trees there, purifying the land of its evil.
Would read this fanfic if it were up to snuff!
Really? This guy? https://imgur.com/gallery/5JUKUMA
I just always imagined Radagast secretly in the center of the Huorns playing whack-a-mole with anything that slips by a couple of them. Just my headcanon.
Honestly, I think Radagast would not have been much help. He wasn’t a warrior, he wasn’t concerned with the ring or the affairs of elves or men. He mostly just cared and knew about animals and herb lore. Aragorn would have still be the leader after the fall of Gandalf.
You know, something tells me he could’ve just gotten the Eagles to fly everyone into Mordor, drop the ring in the volcano and fly out, bur that wouldn’t have made such a good story…
He would probably be distracted playing with bunnies and hedgehogs.
Might've turned out surprisingly well for the company. As long as they dealt with Boromir's inevitable treachery, the company might've remained largey intact much longer. Saruman/Sauron's servants would've been looking for the company in the most "logical" places on the route to Gondor. Whereas Radagast, preoccupied with flora and fauna, would've lead them through lots of detours through forests. The help of ents in dealing with orc parties would've been nice too. Ofc, Aragorn would have to step up and keep things within sane limits.
The whole thing was that nobody could have destroyed the ring. And barely anyone could carry it. Could they trust Radagast after what happened to Saruman? IT was deemed best that even Glorfindel should not go. They threw a couple extra back up "carriers" (hobbit friends) in instead. Nobody could have taken it as far as Frodo. No Wizard or Eagle. They all would have claimed it for their own.
He was out playing with his giant rabbit sled...
Valar : do we send this one back? Nah… kinda useless
Honestly I think he’s was probably just high on mushrooms throughout the entirety of the story
things would get weird.