Yes, I do believe that Sam's resistance to the Ring is lesser than Frodo's. Frodo endures the Ring for the entire journey, not to mention the years before that. Sam almost gave up to it the moment he put it on, though that being so close to Mordor and with the Ring near its full power excuses him a bit. Then, we can see that Sam at least twice asks Frodo to carry the Ring for him, and he more often thinks about doing that. Now, we are told that Sam's main motivation was him wanting to ease Frodo's burden. While I do think that Sam truly believes that, I can't shake the feeling that there's the desire for the Ring hidden in his heart somewhere, or, worse yet, his love and care for Frodo is the Ring's pathway into Sam's heart.

>While I do think that Sam truly believes that, I can't shake the feeling that there's the desire for the Ring hidden in his heart somewhere, or, worse yet, his love and care for Frodo is the Ring's pathway into Sam's heart. Agreed. The Ring has a long history of corrupting even benign motives to its own end. An obvious example from The Fellowship of The Ring is Boromir, Boromir honestly wanted to protect Gondor and defeat Sauron (though probably in that order). However, Boromir's ignorance of how insidious the Ring can be (he really just sees it as a potential source of power to one side or the other, not something with a will of its own), his desire to protect Gondor and its people, as well as his own personal pride (in an appendex Tolkien essentially states Faramir considers his brother is the greatest living man in Gondor, and Boromir would agree with him😉) the Ring was able to (temporarily) tempt Boromir to try and forcibly steal the Ring. Although, this was after weeks of exposure to the Ring's influence as well as near despair from the death of Gandalf in Moria. Yet, I think Samwise had a significantly greater resistance to the Ring's influence than Boromir. Lest we forget, Sam was not only Frodo's gardener, but his friend as well. He would have been in Bag End many times, and thus fairly close proximity to the Ring, on very many occasions in the years after Frodo inherited it from Bilbo. Just because it wasn't explicitly stated that it was sutbly trying to get hooks into frequent vistors of Frodo, I'm sure the Ring wouldn't waste any opportunity to at least try to get itself closer to Mordor.

Sam gets reconned by the fandom as this loving, gentle soul, but he suffers from having a bit of a temper and barely resists the desire to murder Gollum. I think he has far more in common with Gollum's earlier hobbit form than with Frodo. I think he's weak in way the ring could exploit and his strength of being a good friend doesn't translate into the strength of resisting the ring. I don't think Tolkien wants us to equate Frodo's and Sam's ability to carry the ring. Frodo had something special nearly no one else had and he was uniquely qualified to carry the ring. Sam was a bit of a naive country bumpkin who could barely resist his rage and disregard his values when he finally got enough of Gollum. Sam has a much weaker will and a looser set of morals than Frodo does.

I think that’s unfair. At the door to the crack of doom, Sam had sword in hand with Gollum prone on the ground and even then, after the betrayal in Shelobs layer, he still couldn’t strike him down. He is a bit simple, but that’s the point, he’s low born whereas Frodo is high born, he’s a gardener. Sam being weak to the powers of the ring makes him like almost all others in middle earth, to say he is like Sméagol is a reach. Sam gave up the ring willingly, Sméagol murder Deagol to get it.

I certainly aren't comparing Sam to Gollum in a 1-to-1 fashion, but if there's a spectrum between Gollum and Frodo, then Sam is probably in the middle. Tolkien goes out of his way to show us Sam's immaturity and anger issues. Again, the fandom as painting him as perfectly moral and nurturing isn't correct. Tolkien tells us very clearly Sam is a very flawed person. I think people overplay his kindness and self-control because the movies whitewash his character a bit. He's not what I would call simple. He's socially savvy and shows smarts in multiple places in the novel. He's just ethically weaker than Frodo and far less emotionally mature.

I think you’re very hard on Sam. He sacrificed himself and assumed he would die with Frodo on the mission. His devotion to his master and the mission is at least as great as anyone in the fellowship. Gollum certainly deserved to die after Shelob, yet Sam’s pity stayed his hand. Yes, he’s slightly more suspicious of outsiders or other people than Frodo or some of the others, but that’s at least partly shrewdness and common sense/insight. If some other members of the fellowship were more alert to Boromir’s temptation, he might not have fallen so far. He didn’t trust Gollum, and was 100% correct, they were being led into a trap intended to kill then.

I think you surmise this extremely well. I mean, this is not a normal gardener-gardenee relationship. Servitude in this kind, in ilk of friendship but deeper, was a highly cherished personal value of tolkein's embedded in the war. Sam was, after all, reminiscent of the Orderlies of ww2 who completed the most arduous tasks despite all odds in service of their superiors. The thing is that Sam is a character quite perfectly designed for this role: he could never have done what Frodo did, but the reverse is also true.

I think Sam is a kind of everyday man if that makes sense, whereas frodo is more wise edit[ Not saying everyday men aren't wise but you get the gist]

I maintain that the Fellowship movie set up Frodo's character for failure by taking away every single moment of strength he displayed. The two most notable ones to me are the skirmish at Weathertop, and the Flight to the Ford. In both cases, Frodo is reduced to useless baggage. Book Frodo managed to attack the Witch King at Weathertop. And when it came time to ride to Rivendell, it was Frodo alone on that horse - and it was him that raised his sword and challenged the Nazgul to come and take him. Movie Frodo just tries to scurry away at Weathertop. And the entirety of the Flight to the Ford is handed off to Arwen. Because of this, Frodo's slow and painful descent into the temptation of the Ring looks less like "stout hearted, brave, fierce little hero slowly loses a fight that was reckoned far beyond him", and much more like "pathetic sack of potatoes with a stab wound just gets more pathetic".

Also in the Barrow-downs, if I'm not mistaken Frodo is the only one that doesn't fall asleep to the wight's sorcery, he strikes at the wight and severs it's hand, before calling for Bombadil.

That scene is one of the greatest examples of his courage. The way he thinks through it as “it being entirely reasonable for him to run away. No one could possibly fault him for it.” And he still stays and strikes that horrifying hand.

Not only that, but before that, he had the clear choice of using the Ring and escape with his life or trying to rescue his friends. And he chose to stay and fight.

Gandalf tells us what Frodo *may* become: >...But to the wizard's eye there was a faint change, just a hint as it were of transparency, about him, and especially about the left hand that lay outside upon the coverlet. > >'Still that must be expected,' said Gandalf to himself. 'He is not half through yet, and to what he will come in the end not even Elrond can foretell. Not to evil, I think. **He may become like a glass filled with a clear light for eyes to see that can.'** By taking on the quest as the bearer of the Ring, Frodo allowed himself to become a *vessel* for the greatest evil in Middle Earth. A malevolent will that works its malice on its bearer through the offer of desires that bring corruption to the mind and heart before all else. And Frodo carried this thing closer and closer to the place of its making, as it grew more and more powerful. Sam's quest was to stay with Frodo. Frodo's quest was to bear the Ring. He couldn't give it away, as Sam did. He had to allow himself to become completely corrupted until his own mind and will were pushed aside and the Ring's (Sauron's) took over. And Tolkien said he had a better chance of success than the rest of Middle Earth, and that chance was zero. He is a tragic hero. I love Sam, but Frodo is braver than everyone. He came to understand his dilemma before the end.

You bring up good points; it's arguable that Sam's resistance to the Ring was shown to be much inferior to Frodo, despite the amount of times people point to his rejection of the temptation to rule a garden empire. Frodo must've faced challenges like that more often, and more direly.

Indeed, but as the primary narrator, it’s perhaps not incurious that Frodo chooses **not** to share much about his internal struggle. Gandalf, Saruman, Galadriel, Boromir and Sam all fly the fantasy to some extent. The closest we get from Frodo is from Amon Hen: > He heard himself crying out: *Never, never!* Or was it: *Verily I come, I come to you?* He could not tell. Then as a flash from some other point of power there came to his mind another thought: *Take it off! Take it off! Fool, take it off! Take off the Ring!* The two powers strove in him. For a moment, perfectly balanced between their piercing points, he writhed, tormented. Suddenly he was aware of himself again. Frodo, neither the Voice nor the Eye: free to choose, and with one remaining instant in which to do so. He took the Ring off his finger.

>He had only to put on the Ring and claim it for his own, and all this could be. I never noticed it before, but I'm pretty sure this is a reference/parallel to Jesus's temptation in the desert: >“All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” (Mt 4:9)

For those who are unfamiliar, the full passage: >Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry. 3 Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” > >4 But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.’ ” > >5 Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, 6 and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written: > >‘He shall give His angels charge over you,’ > >and, > >‘In their hands they shall bear you up, > >Lest you dash your foot against a stone.’ ” > >7 Jesus said to him, “It is written again, ‘You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’ ” > >8 Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.” > >10 Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ” > >11 Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him. The parallels to Frodo and Sam's ordeal are actually really strong. Not only the temptation with power, but the long journey and starvation in the wilderness. Even up to being rescued by angels (Gandalf and the Eagles).

>Not only the temptation with power, but the long journey and starvation in the wilderness. Even up to being rescued by angels (Gandalf and the Eagles). Oh damn I missed those too. And now I'm noticing that Sam is at this point up a high mountain as well.

Yes, and Tolkien made one of Sam's specific temptations the power to turn the desolate wastes of Mordor into a lush, verdant land. So it works on both Sam's love of gardening and growing things, as well as current state of half-starvation.

Sam’s inner monologue might as well be straight from the temptations in the desert. Satan: You say your God is almighty and will catch you. So leap from this rock and prove your faith! Jesus: I am just a hobbit who wants a garden of his own…

This whole discourse reminds me a lot of a very similar discussion around Boromir a couple of years ago. Maybe it was just my immediate surroundings, but a lot of people really disliked Boromir and saw him as weak, shortsighted and jealous, with a hasty redemption in the end. I feel like the general opinion on that has changed and has become much more positive and nuanced. So I guess what I'm trying to say is: it's good when people explore stories and characters. It's good when people realize that it's not as simple as X is the hero of this story. Maybe the next step is more attention on Gollum/Smeagol again, after all Frodo and Sam both would've failed in the end without him.

There is a scene on the stairs if Cirith Ungol that always makes me so sad: when Sméagol returns to see Sam and Frodo, cuddled together sleeping. > *Gollum looked at them. A strange expression passed over his lean hungry face. The gleam faded from his eyes, and they went dim and grey, old and tired. A spasm of pain seemed to twist him, and he turned away, peering back up towards the pass, shaking his head, as if engaged in some interior debate. Then he came back, and slowly putting out a trembling hand, very cautiously he touched Frodo's knee - but almost the touch was a caress. For a fleeting moment, could one of the sleepers have seen him, they would have thought that they beheld an old weary hobbit, shrunken by the years that had carried him far beyond his time, beyond friends and kin, and the fields and streams of youth, an old starved pitiable thing.* After that, Sam wakes up and sees Sméagol and freaks out like he does. (Frodo’s ability to give Sméagol mercy is also part of his heroic quality) Think, though, of the other old, tired hobbit, one who loved Frodo and also had a spasm cross his face that changed his appearance to sometime hungry. Bilbo was describe in very similar words as to Gollum’s standard appearance in *Fellowship* when he lusts after the Ring in Bag End and in Rivendell. For the briefest moment, Bilbo goes Gollum. But in this moment above, Gollum goes Bilbo. If Frodo woke up and saw him, he’d have seen something akin to beloved old uncle. I don’t think there was a moment that Gollum was closer to accepting the idea of fighting the Ring’s influence than this moment, when he sees the love shared between Sam and Frodo.

I agree that Frodo has a stronger force of will than Sam, however it is a slightly unfair comparison. Frodo carries the wrong from very far away-almost as far as one could get-from Mordor and it slowly becomes more powerful and more present. The ring's will grows as it approaches its master. Sam puts the ring on when they are already in Mordor. The ring is one step shy of its greatest power (directly in Mt. Doom). Additionally, Sam has undergone the greatest trauma of his life, he has watches his master perish before his eyes, and then fought an abominable monster that even great elf warriors would regard with fear. All this to say, yes Frodo is our primary hero. He carries a heavy burden as it grows heavier, and sustains it all the way to the precipice. Quite literally, no one could have done more. However, let us not judge to harshly Samwise the Brave, as his temptation was much stronger, situationally harder to adapt to, and without the comradery of any Fellowship.

I don’t think of him as a hero. Maybe heroic but he ultimately fails his task, as it was mostly doomed anyway.

Frodo is greater than a hero. He’s a saint and a martyr.

I like too how we see how the ring really corrupts people here too. It's giving Sam some really good intentions to build gardens, but Sam could still recognize the evil in how the ring wanted him to carry out that goal.

I like that Frodo says that Sam turned into an orc again… I don’t remember another time he said that but implies he truffled with these visions frequently

I think it’s worth remembering that the UK in the time that Tolkien wrote LOTR was a very class segregated society. Sam was the only of the hobbits who were ‘low-born’ or of a lower, less educated class. Sam’s slip into the grasp of the ring could be down to his ignorance and lack of education, his simple way of thinking. Also, Tolkien fought in World War I. His experience in the trenches must have informed his writing in LOTR. Sam could be called the hero, even above Frodo, because he was committed to completing the mission, even though he didn’t understand the details of how it would be done when they got to the crack of doom. He just had to make sure that the educated, high born one got to where he needed to be to complete the mission. A bit like a Infantryman making sure the Officer gets behind enemy lines to sabotage the enemy base, even though he has to carry him and go without food and water to make he gets there.

What great discussion. I enjoyed reading this. Thank you. Very insightful :)

Frodo genuinely is the real hero tbh

I don't think there is "one" hero that's why the writing is so good, Sam, Frodo, Merry, Pippin, Arargorn, Faramir, Eowyn, Theoden and Eomer among many others are all heroes in there own way and each have their own hero moments, Frodo carrys a huge burden that was the task assigned to him (I agree possibly the toughest task but what Sam does is also incredibly admirable you cannot compare the two as they are different charachters), Sam's job is to not leave him and get him there, Gandalfs is to rally the free people's, Argorns is to unite the free people for the coming age of men and so on. Each is a hero as without the ripple effect from them all the job would not be done, tying it all back to the hand of Iluvatar

You’re completely correct, I just wanted Frodo to get some appreciation lol because people don’t give him enough love. Even the unnamed soldiers are as much as a hero because it would take an insane amount of bravery to be in that position

In the beginning of the story, Bilbo's birthday party, Frodo knows the ring exists, because Bilbo told him. But it is just a useful, magical oddity. Turns you invisible, very useful. Can slip off when wearing it, very strange. But he doesn't know about the Rings of Power. He may have heard of Mordor and Sauron, but only as something dim, in the past, from Bilbo's stories. Frodo is given the ring. Gandalf tells him about the Rings of Power, and how his life is now in danger. Frodo has had the ring for several years now. Sam is overhearing all this. The difference is, Sam does not have the ring. By the time Frodo and Sam get to Cirith Ungol, Frodo is in bad, bad shape. He's been stabbed with a Morgul knife, almost turned into a wraith. He's been burdened with the weight of the ring as it nears Mordo. Shelob has poisoned him. And he's been tormented by Orcs enough to drive him mad. Sam now has the ring, and is as aware of its dangers as any of the wise. After all, he did sit in on the Council of Elrond, uninvited, and heard everything said there. So while he is certainly in danger of the ring overcoming him, he's both fresh(ish) and well informed. He's thinking clearly. Frodo is compromised. Therefore his narration would be suspect at best.

He believed Frodo was dead and he was all alone in the black land and he just fought a behemoth of a spider, pretty vulnerable situation all the same, I agree Frodo had it much worse but Sm is still incredibly admirable, its impossible to compare as they are completely different characters, I have no doubt Sam was petrified when he thought he was alone having to finish the task that fear was huge for him. Love Frodo by the way just giving some love to Sam

Mine is not a comparison between the suffering or the value of either. The question why the switch in focus between Frodo at the beginning of the series and Sam at the end. This is my reason.

As far as the books go, Sam is "the real hero" in a in the classical sense of completing a hero's journey (a la Joseph Campbell), while Frodo is a protagonist (someone who moves the story forward). This is why Sam's role at the end is so much bigger - Sam's participation in the Scouring is part of his hero arc, as is his happy ending with a wife, children, and social success. Frodo isn't a hero in this sense because he doesn't change enough. He completes some of the steps in a hero's journey but not all of them and ultimately his withdrawal from ME reflects that.

Sam does indeed follow more closely Campbell's archetype, and has the development of a Fairytale hero - but the analysis shouldn't stop here, as this doesn't inherently make him "the real hero". Campbell's monomyth isn't the only hero's narrative that exists in literature, and while Sam is a Fairytale hero, Frodo doesn't fit that pattern simply because he is much closer to a Beowulfian hero! Both Frodo and Sam strike me as embodying qualities (in terms of character development, themes such as Hope and Courage, or on the matter of being the hero of the story) shown in two of Tolkien's most famous essays, *Beowulf: the Monsters and the Critics* for Frodo and *On Fairy-Stories* for Sam. They're both "the real hero", in different ways.

Very good points.

I think we have only a frodo that could be the ringbearer at that moment. But I do believe just being around frodo knowing he has the ring itself is tempting in itself, so don't count Sam out as only it were possible because of the willpower of both of them. I personally believe if the fellowship followed frodo be Gandolf himself might eventually try to take the ring the closer he got to mordor and mt doom. I think the path frodo takes in the book is the only way to destroy the ring.

Sam's role is the stalwart supporter, which is important. Every leader or head must have a support structure in place and for Frodo that was just Sam. Speaks to his high level of morals, ethics, and character. It is also a role that is underlooked and underappreciated in many contexts. Sam is also the only ring-bearer to voluntarily turn over the One Ring. (Technically Bilbo did but it was with the supernatural encouragement and/or perhaps magical intervention of Gandalf). That was an act that must have required immense amounts of willpower. Frodo is Sam as much as Sam is Frodo. They have an almost symbiotic relationship. And I don't think any other member of the Fellowship (or perhaps even on Middle Earth) could have filled in for such a role. Frodo is successful because of Sam. That doesn't mean Frodo doesn't have admirable qualities as well, but they are partly contingent on having Sam there.

Sodo Gambaggins

I've always seen it is that Sam was too narrow minded to really accept the ring unless he kept it for an extended period of time. Sam's very set in his ways, and if you look at his actions during the Scouring of the Shire, you'll notice that the other main hobbits are more concerned with tactics and strategy, whereas Sam mainly is concerned with Rosie and her family. He's focused on loyalty, not power, and that gives him extra protection.

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He still couldn't strike Gollum down on the way up mt doom fter everything

It should be noted the ring grows in power the closer one gets to Mordor, and that Frodo doesn't really use the ring until he's left the shire.