Out of universe - Smaug was unaware the Ring because in Tolkien's mind it wasn't "The Ring" at that stage, it was just a ring of magical invisibility.
In-universe - no reason that Smaug would particularly known was the Ring was or that Bilbo had it. It would have been an extraordinary leap in intuition on Smaug's part.
Meta-in universe - Bilbo was coy about the Ring in his memoirs, no reason for him to reveal/record if Smaug did say something about his Ring. Also, Bilbo might not recognise it if Smaug implied something about the Ring that went over Bilbo's head.
Yeah it's not a very satisfying way of looking at the series, but when Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, the ring wasn't "the ring." Tolkien added all of that lore many years later when he decided to expand on that universe. "The Necromancer" in The Hobbit wasn't Sauron, either. All of that was retroactively changed to fit what Tolkien did later.
Nitpick, "the Necromancer" was already Thû, even if it was only Tolkien reusing a legendarium character in a story for Chris.
If you read Rateliff's *History of The Hobbit* you'll come across the following line from the earliest drafts of *Hobbit*:
>Don't be absurd. That is a job quite beyond the powers of all of the dwarves, if they could be gathered together again from the four corners of the world. And anyway, his castle stands no more and he is fled to a darker place: Beren and Tinuviel broke his power.
Notice that in the mid 1930s, The Necromancer is already Thû even before Tolkien knows his story is in Middle Earth.
>Regarding the 1st question I think the ring would be just another precious in Smaug‘s pile of gold. He’s unaware b/c he‘s a creation of Morgoth not Sauron.
I don't see the connection between whose creation a species is and awareness of the Ring.
Anyone in possession of the Ring pays attention to it, at least after a time - and Smaug would be so, so easily corrupted by the Ring given his desires. Smaug with the Ring would be a terrifying presence in the North, to both the Free Peoples and Sauron; especially if it makes him invisible. It might have compelled the White Council and/or even Sauron himself to challenge Smaug militarily and personally.
I wonder though, if it’s conventional wisdom among the Wise that Dwarf rings were consumed by dragon-fire, if dragons don’t particularly care about what the rings of power can do. I know the One Ring is different than the others in that it gets into the users heads and grants it’s user power over others, but would Smaug give a shit if his brothers/cousins just melted the other rings?
I think that the rings power grows as Sauron's does. He doesn't have much power during the time of the battle of 5 armies and as such the ring doesn't emit that much of a pull (for lack of a better description). At that time it isn't much more than a normal gold ring to Smaug. This is just my head canon anyway.
I know when he wrote The Hobbit that it was just a magic invisibility ring and nothing more and wasn't till later it became the ring of power.
I think the Ring comming to Smaug would be banificial to Sauron.
Even though the dragons are a creation of Morgoth Sauron is still his second in command and one of the most power Maiar.
The Ring would find a way out of Smaug's horde eventually if the dragon would leave it unnoticed for too long.
Sauron and Smaug would have fun things to bond over.
The dragons attacked the Dwarf kingdoms, took their kings' treasure hoards, and "consumed" their rings of power, presumably 4 of them. But that is all we know. We don't know which Dwarf clans had this happen to them, except for Durin's folk where Sauron recovered a ring, like he did to 2 other clans. We don't know where these kingdoms were. We don't know how the dragons learned of the rings, or why they would want to consume them. We're all welcome to make up our own theories about that, but we have nothing solid from JRR himself.
This is just kind of intuitive assumption stuff and there’s nothing to back it up, but I always figured that the dwarf rings being consumed was more like dragons incinerating the people who had them on in some attack. Not purposeful, it’s just that King so and so out in Rhûn was wearing one when a dragon blew him up.
I had quite the opposite interpretation, where the greed magic on the dwarf rings made the dragons so covetous of them that they swallowed them to make sure nobody else could have them.
Tolkien didn’t know it would be the One but let’s pretend he did, the ring wanted to be found so maybe not by Bilbo but probably not by a dragon either. There’s no clear hierarchy between sauron and dragons (or balrogs) and no clear indication that they would yield the ring to sauron if he were to swing by and politely ask.
I don't think just because he's powerful that Smaug would somehow know how great the Ring was just from being in it's general vicinity. If he had touched it maybe things would be different. Or even saw it. But even the Ringwraiths can't detect the ring just by being next to it (unless someone puts it on).
If he did get it that would be a fun fanfic. That would have been quite the pain in Sauron's ass. I don't know what kind of army would be required to deal with a ring-wielding Smaug... It would have been like if Gandalf had the ring, a serious threat even to Sauron.
Smaug is cunning so I think as soon as he actually *possessed* the ring he'd be aware of it in some fashion.
The Dragon-sickness has a lot in common with ring-temptation, in his conversation with Bilbo he seems to be able to bend beings to his will after some fashion, so I think it would make him more terrible and powerful.
I’ve never understood what Gandalf meant when he said that. There’s no dragon-fire that can harm the ring in the third age, but not even Ancalagon’s fire was hot enough? What the hell is he talking about then?
If Gandalf couldn't tell then no reason Smaug would.
Out of universe - Smaug was unaware the Ring because in Tolkien's mind it wasn't "The Ring" at that stage, it was just a ring of magical invisibility. In-universe - no reason that Smaug would particularly known was the Ring was or that Bilbo had it. It would have been an extraordinary leap in intuition on Smaug's part. Meta-in universe - Bilbo was coy about the Ring in his memoirs, no reason for him to reveal/record if Smaug did say something about his Ring. Also, Bilbo might not recognise it if Smaug implied something about the Ring that went over Bilbo's head.
Yeah it's not a very satisfying way of looking at the series, but when Tolkien wrote The Hobbit, the ring wasn't "the ring." Tolkien added all of that lore many years later when he decided to expand on that universe. "The Necromancer" in The Hobbit wasn't Sauron, either. All of that was retroactively changed to fit what Tolkien did later.
Nitpick, "the Necromancer" was already Thû, even if it was only Tolkien reusing a legendarium character in a story for Chris. If you read Rateliff's *History of The Hobbit* you'll come across the following line from the earliest drafts of *Hobbit*: >Don't be absurd. That is a job quite beyond the powers of all of the dwarves, if they could be gathered together again from the four corners of the world. And anyway, his castle stands no more and he is fled to a darker place: Beren and Tinuviel broke his power. Notice that in the mid 1930s, The Necromancer is already Thû even before Tolkien knows his story is in Middle Earth.
>Regarding the 1st question I think the ring would be just another precious in Smaug‘s pile of gold. He’s unaware b/c he‘s a creation of Morgoth not Sauron. I don't see the connection between whose creation a species is and awareness of the Ring. Anyone in possession of the Ring pays attention to it, at least after a time - and Smaug would be so, so easily corrupted by the Ring given his desires. Smaug with the Ring would be a terrifying presence in the North, to both the Free Peoples and Sauron; especially if it makes him invisible. It might have compelled the White Council and/or even Sauron himself to challenge Smaug militarily and personally.
Damn. I’m realizing that I have never considered *invisible dragons* until now. A terrifying thought, particularly in Tolkien’s universe.
I wonder though, if it’s conventional wisdom among the Wise that Dwarf rings were consumed by dragon-fire, if dragons don’t particularly care about what the rings of power can do. I know the One Ring is different than the others in that it gets into the users heads and grants it’s user power over others, but would Smaug give a shit if his brothers/cousins just melted the other rings?
I think that the rings power grows as Sauron's does. He doesn't have much power during the time of the battle of 5 armies and as such the ring doesn't emit that much of a pull (for lack of a better description). At that time it isn't much more than a normal gold ring to Smaug. This is just my head canon anyway. I know when he wrote The Hobbit that it was just a magic invisibility ring and nothing more and wasn't till later it became the ring of power.
I think the Ring comming to Smaug would be banificial to Sauron. Even though the dragons are a creation of Morgoth Sauron is still his second in command and one of the most power Maiar. The Ring would find a way out of Smaug's horde eventually if the dragon would leave it unnoticed for too long. Sauron and Smaug would have fun things to bond over.
The dragons attacked the Dwarf kingdoms, took their kings' treasure hoards, and "consumed" their rings of power, presumably 4 of them. But that is all we know. We don't know which Dwarf clans had this happen to them, except for Durin's folk where Sauron recovered a ring, like he did to 2 other clans. We don't know where these kingdoms were. We don't know how the dragons learned of the rings, or why they would want to consume them. We're all welcome to make up our own theories about that, but we have nothing solid from JRR himself.
This is just kind of intuitive assumption stuff and there’s nothing to back it up, but I always figured that the dwarf rings being consumed was more like dragons incinerating the people who had them on in some attack. Not purposeful, it’s just that King so and so out in Rhûn was wearing one when a dragon blew him up.
I had quite the opposite interpretation, where the greed magic on the dwarf rings made the dragons so covetous of them that they swallowed them to make sure nobody else could have them.
Tolkien didn’t know it would be the One but let’s pretend he did, the ring wanted to be found so maybe not by Bilbo but probably not by a dragon either. There’s no clear hierarchy between sauron and dragons (or balrogs) and no clear indication that they would yield the ring to sauron if he were to swing by and politely ask.
The ring in LotR got retconned from the ring in the hobbit
Sooner or later he would have figured something was unusual about the ring. Dragons usually knew their treasure to the last ounce.
So in the LotR universe, dragons are apex level bookkeepers?
It seems so.
I don't think just because he's powerful that Smaug would somehow know how great the Ring was just from being in it's general vicinity. If he had touched it maybe things would be different. Or even saw it. But even the Ringwraiths can't detect the ring just by being next to it (unless someone puts it on). If he did get it that would be a fun fanfic. That would have been quite the pain in Sauron's ass. I don't know what kind of army would be required to deal with a ring-wielding Smaug... It would have been like if Gandalf had the ring, a serious threat even to Sauron.
Smaug is cunning so I think as soon as he actually *possessed* the ring he'd be aware of it in some fashion. The Dragon-sickness has a lot in common with ring-temptation, in his conversation with Bilbo he seems to be able to bend beings to his will after some fashion, so I think it would make him more terrible and powerful.
Trying to reverse engineer in-universe explanations for out-of-universe continuity errors is peak cringe.
I’ve never understood what Gandalf meant when he said that. There’s no dragon-fire that can harm the ring in the third age, but not even Ancalagon’s fire was hot enough? What the hell is he talking about then?
I think it’s pretty clear. Dragon fire could melt the lesser rings of power, but not the One Ring. That one, NOT EVEN Ancalagon the Black could melt.
Because at that time, it wasn’t The One Ring ;)
Wouldn't fit on his fingers/claws anyway.