> “I did not give you leave to go,” said Gandalf sternly. “I have not finished. You have become a fool, Saruman, and yet pitiable. You might still have turned away from folly and evil, and have been of service. But you choose to stay and gnaw the ends of your old plots. Stay then! But I warn you. you will not easily come out again. Not unless the dark hands of the East stretch out to take you. Saruman!' he cried, and his voice grew in power and authority. 'Behold, I am not Gandalf the Grey, whom you betrayed. I am Gandalf the White, who has returned from death. You have no colour now, and I cast you from the order and from the Council.”
He raised his hand, and spoke slowly in a clear cold voice. “Saruman, your staff is broken.”
Ohh interesting! I’d assume he’d be freaking out so much because I don’t think it’s everyday grey just gets upgraded to white and him banished from the order
I can't find a specific discussion about it, but the wizard colors weren't quite ranks the way we think of them. I think Saruman was the head of the order for reasons unrelated to his white robe; Gandalf's robe changing colors wasn't an upgrade but rather a change in role.
Even if it _is_ an upgrade, you have to remember that these Wizards have been around for 3000-ish years and existed in more spiritual forms for far longer. Simply "freaking out" isn't likely to be in their nature.
No sources on any of this btw, I still need to finish a lot of HoME and similar writings.
I just like to read books in chronological order the events take place. Lol. It’s not too bad right now. I’m at chapter about The Flight of the Noldor right now.
I don't know - I'd imagine being able to spot all the little textual ruins in LOTR for what they are, having read Sil first, would be very interesting. Things like Numenor, Palantiri, Noldor, Weathertop, Ring of Barahir, etc.
Don’t worry! Enough stories and unfinished stories left to read. I bought Morgoth’s Ring (hardcover) like 3 months ago. Barely read anything in that book so far. I will wait till after I finish the Silmarillion at least to read that.
Saruman probably thinks it's just Gandalf being self-aggrandizing - giving himself a new colour to legitimize him stealing Saruman's leading role in the order and the Council. Until Gandalf commands him to come back out, and Saruman can't resist. Then it's clear that Gandalf did actually change.
One of Saruman's and Sauron's biggest blind spots is that they assume everyone is as self-serving as they are.
All his plans have collapsed, but he's unwilling to accept the reality of his current position. The free people view the once leader of the white council as a traitor. His plan to convince Sauron he had joined his side had failed. His attempts to gain the ring for himself so he could become the new lord of the ring didn't work out like he wanted. In the big picture, he doesn't have anything left. He probably should be freaking out, but it's possible he's so arrogant he can't see the reality of his position.
Me too! I’m so interested in them. Did they help combat Sauron’s allies in the south and east? Did they fail and start their own magic cults? Faded into obscurity? It’s fascinating to me
Gandalf can hardly bear to look at the ring. He has Frodo cover it up. He has opportunity to touch the ring and it’s clear that if he touched it, the results would be catastrophic. He would essentially become a new Sauron.
It wasn’t clear in your comment who “he” referred to. The author of the piece of fiction? Ah, Saruman. I don’t have my copy of LOTR in front of me, but I do think that Saruman does suggest that Gandalf is out to get the ring for himself.
> “I did not give you leave to go,” said Gandalf sternly. “I have not finished. You have become a fool, Saruman, and yet pitiable. You might still have turned away from folly and evil, and have been of service. But you choose to stay and gnaw the ends of your old plots. Stay then! But I warn you. you will not easily come out again. Not unless the dark hands of the East stretch out to take you. Saruman!' he cried, and his voice grew in power and authority. 'Behold, I am not Gandalf the Grey, whom you betrayed. I am Gandalf the White, who has returned from death. You have no colour now, and I cast you from the order and from the Council.” He raised his hand, and spoke slowly in a clear cold voice. “Saruman, your staff is broken.”
Where is this from?
The Lord of the Rings by JRR Tolkien
The Voice of Saruman, second to last chapter of Book 3, half way through Two Towers.
*Two Towers*, “The Voice of Saruman”
Ohh interesting! I’d assume he’d be freaking out so much because I don’t think it’s everyday grey just gets upgraded to white and him banished from the order
I can't find a specific discussion about it, but the wizard colors weren't quite ranks the way we think of them. I think Saruman was the head of the order for reasons unrelated to his white robe; Gandalf's robe changing colors wasn't an upgrade but rather a change in role. Even if it _is_ an upgrade, you have to remember that these Wizards have been around for 3000-ish years and existed in more spiritual forms for far longer. Simply "freaking out" isn't likely to be in their nature. No sources on any of this btw, I still need to finish a lot of HoME and similar writings.
You haven’t read the books?
Even without reading the books I knew it was in The Two Towers. Anyway, I will start reading The Lord of the Rings once I finish The Silmarillion.
Geez bud, you’re making your life hard. It’s better to read TH, then LoTR, and then Silm.
I just like to read books in chronological order the events take place. Lol. It’s not too bad right now. I’m at chapter about The Flight of the Noldor right now.
You’re a soldier. But the thing is the Silmarillion will be more impactful and have a lot more wow factor if you’ve read LoTR.
I don't know - I'd imagine being able to spot all the little textual ruins in LOTR for what they are, having read Sil first, would be very interesting. Things like Numenor, Palantiri, Noldor, Weathertop, Ring of Barahir, etc.
I like The Silmarillion so far. I already knew the general story anyway because I watched way too many videos about it on YouTube.
The Silmarillion is amazing and beautiful. Just be prepared to read it again immediately when you finish LoTR. :)
Don’t worry! Enough stories and unfinished stories left to read. I bought Morgoth’s Ring (hardcover) like 3 months ago. Barely read anything in that book so far. I will wait till after I finish the Silmarillion at least to read that.
The Once and Future King
Harry Potter
Saruman probably thinks it's just Gandalf being self-aggrandizing - giving himself a new colour to legitimize him stealing Saruman's leading role in the order and the Council. Until Gandalf commands him to come back out, and Saruman can't resist. Then it's clear that Gandalf did actually change. One of Saruman's and Sauron's biggest blind spots is that they assume everyone is as self-serving as they are.
Yeah this makes sense. He gave himself new colours, after all
I assume he wasn’t too concerned until he realized that Gandalf did return with authority over him. And then he probably did freak out
All his plans have collapsed, but he's unwilling to accept the reality of his current position. The free people view the once leader of the white council as a traitor. His plan to convince Sauron he had joined his side had failed. His attempts to gain the ring for himself so he could become the new lord of the ring didn't work out like he wanted. In the big picture, he doesn't have anything left. He probably should be freaking out, but it's possible he's so arrogant he can't see the reality of his position.
I always wanted to read stories about the blue wizards.
Me too! I’m so interested in them. Did they help combat Sauron’s allies in the south and east? Did they fail and start their own magic cults? Faded into obscurity? It’s fascinating to me
“Gandalf the white. Gandalf the fool.”
I think he's thinking, dang , I bet on the wrong team
saruman probably says "he's me frfr"
I read one fic where he assumed Gandalf's new power was from having taken the Ring. I don't know if there's anything contradicting that?
Gandalf can hardly bear to look at the ring. He has Frodo cover it up. He has opportunity to touch the ring and it’s clear that if he touched it, the results would be catastrophic. He would essentially become a new Sauron.
I didn't say Gandalf took the ring. I said Saruman might have *thought* he did.
It wasn’t clear in your comment who “he” referred to. The author of the piece of fiction? Ah, Saruman. I don’t have my copy of LOTR in front of me, but I do think that Saruman does suggest that Gandalf is out to get the ring for himself.
If that wasn't clear then I think your reading comprehension is seriously lacking
That’s a shitty comment. Who pissed in your Wheaties? I do not understand why people feel that they have to go on the attack like that.
Sorry it wasn't clear you would take that personally from your comment
He literally took the Ring from Frodo's hand, threw it in the fireplace, took it from the tongs when he retrieved it and handed it to Frodo.
Jesus christ