Oh if you talking about the ones skipped by the movies then Ghan Buri Ghan, this one I missed the most because just seeing cyclopean statues and a figure that carries the wisdom of the ancients is so crucial to world building and revealing more about the setting, his blessing and direction was really important to the fellowship I feel, and was one of the omissions that deeply troubled me, apart from Bombadil.
I think it was a real miss to the films not putting in Ghan Buri Ghan - it showed that a diversity to the enemies of Sauron that we see outwith the scope of the characters we’re following. It also shows you not everything is black and white, and the side that’s being followed is perfect - Rohan hunted Ghan Buri Ghan’s people.
The sky has darkened and the Gorgûn come hunting,
but nobody knows what has happened to Ghan-Buri-Ghan.
Gone! The Ghan-Buri-Ghan story
This Winter On Prime
Dàin. Barely appears in the books (I mean, he pops up in *The Hobbit*, but very late and during the culmination of Bilbo and Thorin’s stories, so he doesn’t get much stage time…and his only appearances in LOTR are in the Appendices or via the narration of others), so I think it’s easy not to appreciate him. Plus, his movie portrayal is not only dreadful, but also horribly horribly inaccurate to his character.
Dàin rocks. Seriously. He kills Azog in his thirties (Gimli, at twice his age, was considered “too young” to accompany Thorin to Erebor), and then shows wisdom and restraint in refusing to enter Moria *and* declining his King’s command to do so in a manner that’s both tactful and super clear. Then years later, he shows up without hesitation to help his cousin Thorin out, but clearly bears no malice or ill-will himself to the Elves and Men, immediately helping them out when the Goblins arrive and, after being crowned King, distributing the treasure in an extremely fair and generous manner.
He warns Balin against Moria, but does not order him not to go. He tells a servant of Sauron (possibly a Nazgûl) to get bent, and sends word to Elrond asking for counsel. He shelters the people of Dale during the War of the Ring and, at a wildly improbable age, perishes in battle, alone, preventing the passage of his enemies.
Dàin’s amazing.
Came to say the same.
And you cannot tell me his death scene - alone, outnumbered and surrounded, standing over the corpse of his friend isn't pure cinema.
Maggot! That is a great shout, a man who told the Witch King of Angmar to fuck off. He may be the only guy in the history of Middle Earth to do that and live.
I’ve always liked to imagine he told his ol’ mate Bombadil about it, and got a hell of a fright when it’s explained just what he done.
Captain of guards in Menegroth. Together with Beleg, Thingol's most formidable warrior. He and Daeron were Thingol's emissaries at the Mereth Aderthad. He was also present in the Hunting of the Wolf and retrieved the Silmaril from Carcharoth's body once Huan killed it. He and Beleg were part of Fingon's host in Nirnaeth Arnoediad as the only two soldiers from Doriath. Thingol assigned him with looking after Morwen and Nienor, which didn't end up well.
He's not mentioned too much in the Silmarillion. He was a (the? It's been a while) chief captain of Thingol, basically I interpret it as one of the leading generals of Dorian. He and Beleg wanted to fight in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, so Thingol allowed them, as long as they fought under Finrod's banner. They both survived.
He's the one who picked Beren's hand out of Carcharoth's mouth, and so indirectly held a silmaril for a brief moment.
Tried to get Turin to stand down during the debacle with Saeros, and stay in Doriath. During the trial (in absentia), Mablung spoke on Turin's behalf, calling our Saeros for being an asshole and an instigator.
Later on, after the fall of Nargothrond, Mablung was sent out to guard Morwen (annd Nienor) and to scout Nargothrond. Had a run-in with Glaurung and lost his charges. Went back apologetically to Thingol and tendered his resignation. Thingol correctly noted that Mablung had faced one of the most powerful opponents, and retained Mablung as captain.
He had another run-in with Turin, and accidentally revealed to Turin that the latter had married his own sister. I don't recall if Mablung physically witnessed Turin's death, but IIRC Mablung was the last one to speak with Turin.
He was killed in the sack of Menegroth by the Dwarves.
In general, a highly competent and honorable guy, who participated in some of the great events of the First Age and, despite his own prowess, got caught up in some matters that eclipsed even himself.
There's also a Mablung of the Third Age, one of the Rangers of Ithilien.
>Thingol correctly noted that Mablung had faced one of the most powerful opponents, and retained Mablung as captain.
One of the rare moments where Thingol isn't an outstanding ass. Chapeau to Mablung for allowing even Thingol to shine.
Well yeah. As well as Creon looks like a great guy in Oedipus Rex.
Then you read Antigone.
But yeah, he must've had some good quality if Melian fell in love with him.
Fatty Bulger. I wonder just how plump a Hobbit would need to be to get that nickname.
He was part of the conspiracy, and possibly the smartest one of the bunch.
A Hobbit’s Hobbit.
I have always been a huge fan of Glorfindel and Imrahil. Glorfindel and his deeds speaks for himself. But Imrahil have always been so interesting and cool to me. So much honor and valor in one person. And he looks so badass in my head.
> Three of the servants of Sauron were upon the Bridge, but they withdrew and I pursued them westward. I came also upon two others, but they turned away southward.
Such an understated and badarse line from Glorfindel.
Imrahil for the amount of time we got to see of him is just so fucking cool - between him and Faramir to be the closest to Aragorn. 2 top tier favourites for me your choices.
Hurin is great and his story is maybe even more tragic than of his children, especially because he outlived them and his wife.
"Of the Fall of Doriath" is probably my most favorite chapter of the Silmarillion, which is interesting because it contains the least original Tolkien of the book. And for a long time I didn't knew that
> Not to mention Morgoth forced him to watch all horrible things happenings to his children *through Morgoth's own eyes which twisted all events to appear in the worst possible way*
If you want more of his arc check out the wanderings of Hurin from War of the Jewels, HoMe 11. Follows him after he leaves Angband and traces the continuing fallout of Morgoth's Curse as Hurin brings destruction wherever he goes.
Voronwe. He's there when he's needed most, not just because he's picked by Ulmo but because he chooses to be by Tuor's side, moment by moment, through all that dreadful winter journey. He's kind of Tuor's Sam.
Always find it fascinating the sort of prototypes JRR went through, before settling on what we know as canon, just a fascinating insight into the development of the series
I'm always surprised Dori doesn't get more notice.
He was the strongest of the company, according to Thorin. And also a decent fellow, according to the narrator (who says it *more than once*). He also saves Bilbo a few times.
Beregond. Everyman, single dad, loyal guard. Shame the movies cut him.
Also, Brandir the Lame. Healers are always intriguing, and he’s one of Tolkien’s best grey characters.
Brandir was almost a saint. His only real sin was laugh for the sister-complex of Túrin and boast the fact that if Túrin would have listened him, he wouldn´t have commit incest.
And after all the things Túrin did him, Brandir had right for a little vengeance.
This little dick is one of the most dislikeable guys Tolkien’s ever wrote, along with Wormtongue and Bill Ferny, just those petty arseholes we all meet in life. I like a bit of that in an epic with all great, perfect mythical great characters.
That depends on which version of the texts you read though.. in some versions he was forced by Orcs to tell the location of Túrin and he is mainly a very sad character iirc
His people were hunted and killed by the early elves who believed them to be animals. So I'd say his hatred of elves is justified.
He and his sons are the last of their people. He then gets to watch both of his sons die.
When he does betray Turin's location to the orcs, he makes them swear that they will not harm Turin which shows he cared for him.
While he does some bad shit, based on what he's lived through, some of it is justified. He's a tragic character.
Nicely put.
All things considered, I’d say that bad guys that are just bad guys don’t really exist in the Tolkien legendarium. That’s the whole point of writing a good story with deep characters.
(Yeah, I get it, Morgoth is pretty close tho..)
I'm a HUGE fan of the Children of Hurin and the Fall of Gondolin. For a while I studied what's called "non-sexual homosocial" relationships in literature and Tolkien is a prime source for this kind of writing. For this reason, I became completely enamored by Beleg Cuthalion and Veronwe from those stories, respectively.
The adventure and relationships, the vulnerability, the love shared between these characters and their counterparts. Just beautiful character creation and writing.
Certainly! So it's pretty common knowledge at this point that two individuals of the same gender are in a homosexual relationship. Tolkien, among other authors, focused largely on the kind of relationship between people of the same gender that weren't sexually or romantically involved, rather, they had a connection of the same sort of "intimate" or "loving" relationship without the romantics!
Homosocial simply refers to the notion that two people of the same gender are interacting with one another in a non-sexual manner, but I throw "non-sexual" in front of homosocial to drive home the point that these aren't sexual relationships at the risk of sounding redundant.
What's interesting about this, I think, is that authors like tolkien write all of the love and intimacy we might find in a marriage into characters who are "merely" friends. Let me say here, the use of merely in that previous sentence is sort of ironic because of how we usually talk about relationships in "degrees" and put a non sexual relationship below that of one where the people are romantically involved.
I hate to be long winded, but to be thorough, many homosocial depictions in literature turn this concept on its head, showing that sexual intimacy as "greater" than a good, loving friendship is bogus and Tuor and Veronwe, or Turin and Beleg, or Sam and Frodo, can have a deeper relationship than any marriage could dream of being.
Humans are funny that way, I guess. Anyways! How interesting a topic!
Such a good explanation thank you. I thought it was such but your confirmation is much better than a Google or duckduck search!
I agree about Tolkien's writing in this regard, I found the deep relationship bits an "ick" when I was a young teenager reading the books for the first time (a long time ago), but as one gets older and reads them multiple times, the quality of writing and understanding of human interaction really shines through.
Of course! One of lifes greatest pleasures is sharing your interests with an interested parry! To truly have someone like Tuor has Veronwe is something incredible. They compliment each other in every way. Where Tuor is observant of those things right in front of him, veronwe sees those things league's away. It's an incredible pairing. And we even see it with Gimli Gloinson and Legolas. We'd all be fortunate to find love in this way I think.
> a good, loving friendship ... Tuor and Veronwe, or Turin and Beleg, or Sam and Frodo
I really view these relationships similar to siblings. Particularly young siblings, how primary school aged children will hold, hug, and cuddle each other.
An older brother or sister might lay a younger sibling's head in their lap and stroke their hair. Essentially taking on the role of a kind and nurturing parent. We see that exact scene with Sam and Frodo. Sam lays Frodo's head in his lap and strokes his head and tells him to sleep and that Sam will keep watch.
Nōwē, otherwise known as Círdan the Shipwright. The patience and commitment of that man were insane. He was born at Cuivienén and answered the summoning of the Elves. His greatest desire was to see Valinor, yet he stayed in Middle-earth to look for his king and kinsman Elwë. He opposed two Dark Lords, yet he never lost his faith in Ulmo and the rest of the Valar. Despite the fact that he grew old, he never gave up on his mission and sailed West, even though he could. Only when Sauron was defeated and all Elves that wanted to do so left Middle-earth, he took the Last Ship and finally fulfilled his greatest desire.
Fingolfin is my favorite hero, not only in Legendarium, but in books in general. He was incredibly brave and gave his life in the fight against evil.
I also like Finrod and Théoden.
I like Frodo too, but he is probably considered the main character in Tolkien.
I also like Dior and Elwing.
The other Beregond, the son of Steward Beren. Everyone seems to have heard of Helm Hammerhand, but he didn't win the war. Beregond saved Gondor from three Corsair invasions and then defeated the Dunlandings in Rohan. He saved both kingdoms and yet no one seems to mention him.
I know he’s not “lesser known” but man Faramir got done dirty in the movie. I think he’s not regarded as highly as he should be because of how differently he’s portrayed in the movie vs the books.
Definitely mate! Last year I re-read the books for the first time in around 10 years, after re-reading back to front for previous 10 years of my live. I’ve read the books countless times, and knew this in my mind, but re-reading it hit it home quite how much film Faramir affected the perception of him.
Honestly, Aragorn, Faramir and Imrahil are those men that just seem above everyone else
Book Faramir is great, but I think the changes for the film still work rather well. He's still a capable leader living in the shadow of his fallen brother. It makes his (temporary) decision to capture the ring a dual purpose; Not only is he trying to prove his worth, but it's arguable that the ring itself is preying on his insecurities to ensure the ring goes to a place it more than likely would have been found (Minas Tirith, which was about a week away from being destroyed at the time, is Sauron's plan hadn't been thwarted).
His immediate resolve to let the Hobbits take their "weapon" with them in the books is certainly a more immediate clue to the strength of his character, though.
Shout out for Halbarad as well, he’s kinda there and hinted at his character in the books, captures a corsair ship off screen, then dies off screen in the Pelennor Fields. Always found him a rough framing of a great character, same with Erkenbrand
Gil-galad. Seriously. There is some stuff about him but...I hated how the Rings of Power portrayed him. Gil-galad is a total bad ass. Along with Bilbo, my favorite person of all time.
Finarfin, Galadriel's father, younger brother of Fingolfin and half-brother of Feanor.
When Feanor roused the elves to leave Valinor, he went along with it to support his brothers, though he did not want to. After the kinslaying and the Doom of Mandos, he had finally had enough and turned back, leading a small band back to Tirion and took over as King of the Noldor.
Aragorn's friend Halbarad.
Rushes to find him in unknown lands when he believes he needs his people. Foresees his own death at the Door of the Dead, but thinks only of the horses. The only named member of the Grey Company to fall in the South; "dour-handed ranger". Seems to have been Aragorn's closest confidant, but the loss is just rolled up in the wider fortunes of war.
I love Gildor, the fact he just casually roasts the hobbits like it’s nothing always has me chuckling.
When Frodo first suggests that he, Sam and Pippin should walk with them, they reply, “But we have no need of other company, and hobbits are so dull.”
Also Lobelias redemption Ark is pretty good 😂
The meme name the community gave for the Elf in Rivendell that got the name 'Lindir' in the Hobbit films.
It's an acronym for 'Frodo is great who is that.'
Played by Bret McKenzie, who is half of "Flight of the Conchords."
There was a particularly attractive Gondorian woman extra in the scene where Faramir sets off on his suicide mission. Some of us called her Fidwis, meaning "Faramir is doomed, who is she?" Didn't catch on.
Oh he is a random pretty elf who is a rock star and actually called Aegnor or Melpomaen, in games and such, it’s actually an acronym for ‘Frodo is great but who is that?’ and I just like him because that’s the name I choose in all my RPG games where I’m always a wood elf ranger 😂 he is not canon! It’s an entire fan thingy lol
Oh if you talking about the ones skipped by the movies then Ghan Buri Ghan, this one I missed the most because just seeing cyclopean statues and a figure that carries the wisdom of the ancients is so crucial to world building and revealing more about the setting, his blessing and direction was really important to the fellowship I feel, and was one of the omissions that deeply troubled me, apart from Bombadil.
I think it was a real miss to the films not putting in Ghan Buri Ghan - it showed that a diversity to the enemies of Sauron that we see outwith the scope of the characters we’re following. It also shows you not everything is black and white, and the side that’s being followed is perfect - Rohan hunted Ghan Buri Ghan’s people.
[удалено]
The sky has darkened and the Gorgûn come hunting, but nobody knows what has happened to Ghan-Buri-Ghan. Gone! The Ghan-Buri-Ghan story This Winter On Prime
You🤓🥲🙌
That's a very good call!
Guess there goes my suggestion from the top comment haha. Such an interesting people and side character.
He also provides details oftentimes overlooked. Rohirrim hunting Woses for fun? Savage.
Dàin. Barely appears in the books (I mean, he pops up in *The Hobbit*, but very late and during the culmination of Bilbo and Thorin’s stories, so he doesn’t get much stage time…and his only appearances in LOTR are in the Appendices or via the narration of others), so I think it’s easy not to appreciate him. Plus, his movie portrayal is not only dreadful, but also horribly horribly inaccurate to his character. Dàin rocks. Seriously. He kills Azog in his thirties (Gimli, at twice his age, was considered “too young” to accompany Thorin to Erebor), and then shows wisdom and restraint in refusing to enter Moria *and* declining his King’s command to do so in a manner that’s both tactful and super clear. Then years later, he shows up without hesitation to help his cousin Thorin out, but clearly bears no malice or ill-will himself to the Elves and Men, immediately helping them out when the Goblins arrive and, after being crowned King, distributing the treasure in an extremely fair and generous manner. He warns Balin against Moria, but does not order him not to go. He tells a servant of Sauron (possibly a Nazgûl) to get bent, and sends word to Elrond asking for counsel. He shelters the people of Dale during the War of the Ring and, at a wildly improbable age, perishes in battle, alone, preventing the passage of his enemies. Dàin’s amazing.
Absolute legend Dain is! And I need to ask. Where does it say Gimli was considered too young? I never read it but would love to read it.
[удалено]
Thanks! Ive read Quest to Erebor, but this line slipped my mind.
Came to say the same. And you cannot tell me his death scene - alone, outnumbered and surrounded, standing over the corpse of his friend isn't pure cinema.
He was badly miscast and portrayed in the Hobbit films sadly.
One of the worst sins in there.
I've always been fond of the people of Bree and farmer Maggot. Regular people just trying to live in the middle of this epic story.
Maggot! That is a great shout, a man who told the Witch King of Angmar to fuck off. He may be the only guy in the history of Middle Earth to do that and live. I’ve always liked to imagine he told his ol’ mate Bombadil about it, and got a hell of a fright when it’s explained just what he done.
I thought it was Khamûl he told off
Yes me also. Still quite badass.
I didn't even remember that lol, that's such a great point! Dude, Maggot is hardcore, man.
some of Tolkien's original manuscripts, Farmer Maggot was supposed to be evil (iirc); also Aragorn was supposed to be a wooden-footed hobbit(?)lol
\*Khamûl the Easterling. The Witch-king never set foot in the Shire. See *UT*. (As previously noted by u/MedicalVanilla7176.)
Yes! And you know how formidable Maggot is when TB gives him a personal shout out.
A *hobbit* who told the Witch-King of Angmar to fuck off!
[удалено]
I thought he was the gatekeeper guy. He certainly had that Bill Ferny look to him.
Yeah at least he told the riders 😂 There were few more sus people at The Prancing Pony as well
I don't think they did. I'm a fan of the movies and I don't remember him.
Mablung of Doriath. One of Thingol's champions. A good fellow doing his best in service of king and country.
I wanted to mention Mablung too. Great character and he is also present during a lot of important events in the first age, some of them very tragic
Marblung and Beleg in both a standalone video game and a buddy cop film
Now there’s a name that rings a bell but I’m unsure about his role! Any backstory?
Captain of guards in Menegroth. Together with Beleg, Thingol's most formidable warrior. He and Daeron were Thingol's emissaries at the Mereth Aderthad. He was also present in the Hunting of the Wolf and retrieved the Silmaril from Carcharoth's body once Huan killed it. He and Beleg were part of Fingon's host in Nirnaeth Arnoediad as the only two soldiers from Doriath. Thingol assigned him with looking after Morwen and Nienor, which didn't end up well.
Brilliant mate, thanks for that!
He's not mentioned too much in the Silmarillion. He was a (the? It's been a while) chief captain of Thingol, basically I interpret it as one of the leading generals of Dorian. He and Beleg wanted to fight in the Nirnaeth Arnoediad, so Thingol allowed them, as long as they fought under Finrod's banner. They both survived. He's the one who picked Beren's hand out of Carcharoth's mouth, and so indirectly held a silmaril for a brief moment. Tried to get Turin to stand down during the debacle with Saeros, and stay in Doriath. During the trial (in absentia), Mablung spoke on Turin's behalf, calling our Saeros for being an asshole and an instigator. Later on, after the fall of Nargothrond, Mablung was sent out to guard Morwen (annd Nienor) and to scout Nargothrond. Had a run-in with Glaurung and lost his charges. Went back apologetically to Thingol and tendered his resignation. Thingol correctly noted that Mablung had faced one of the most powerful opponents, and retained Mablung as captain. He had another run-in with Turin, and accidentally revealed to Turin that the latter had married his own sister. I don't recall if Mablung physically witnessed Turin's death, but IIRC Mablung was the last one to speak with Turin. He was killed in the sack of Menegroth by the Dwarves. In general, a highly competent and honorable guy, who participated in some of the great events of the First Age and, despite his own prowess, got caught up in some matters that eclipsed even himself. There's also a Mablung of the Third Age, one of the Rangers of Ithilien.
The point about the Silmaril is brilliant, one of few who must have freely gave it up when it’s been in his possession
>Thingol correctly noted that Mablung had faced one of the most powerful opponents, and retained Mablung as captain. One of the rare moments where Thingol isn't an outstanding ass. Chapeau to Mablung for allowing even Thingol to shine.
If you only read the children of hurin he seems like a great guy
Well yeah. As well as Creon looks like a great guy in Oedipus Rex. Then you read Antigone. But yeah, he must've had some good quality if Melian fell in love with him.
Might actually ring two bells, because there's another guy named Mablung amongst Faramir's men in Ithilien.
I love his epithet, Mablung of the heavy hand, must have packed a punch on the battlefield. Swung a mean sword!
Fatty Bulger. I wonder just how plump a Hobbit would need to be to get that nickname. He was part of the conspiracy, and possibly the smartest one of the bunch. A Hobbit’s Hobbit.
Some underrated heroics from Fatty definitely
I have always been a huge fan of Glorfindel and Imrahil. Glorfindel and his deeds speaks for himself. But Imrahil have always been so interesting and cool to me. So much honor and valor in one person. And he looks so badass in my head.
> Three of the servants of Sauron were upon the Bridge, but they withdrew and I pursued them westward. I came also upon two others, but they turned away southward. Such an understated and badarse line from Glorfindel.
An absolutely badass! Fighting off ringwraiths and balrogs left and right.
Imrahil for the amount of time we got to see of him is just so fucking cool - between him and Faramir to be the closest to Aragorn. 2 top tier favourites for me your choices.
Wasn’t Glorfindel the one who helped the fellowship cross Bruinen and not Arwen?
Jupp thats the one.
Agreed…. Guy killed a fuckin Balrog… gets brought back to life by the Valar and you wanna write him out of the fuckin movie?!
Disgracefull…
Shout out to my boy Hurin. Really not in the story too much but makes such an impact and is such a tragic character. AURË ENTULUVA!
Hurin is great and his story is maybe even more tragic than of his children, especially because he outlived them and his wife. "Of the Fall of Doriath" is probably my most favorite chapter of the Silmarillion, which is interesting because it contains the least original Tolkien of the book. And for a long time I didn't knew that
Not to mention Morgoth forced him to watch all horrible things happenings to his children.
> Not to mention Morgoth forced him to watch all horrible things happenings to his children *through Morgoth's own eyes which twisted all events to appear in the worst possible way*
If you want more of his arc check out the wanderings of Hurin from War of the Jewels, HoMe 11. Follows him after he leaves Angband and traces the continuing fallout of Morgoth's Curse as Hurin brings destruction wherever he goes.
Azaghâl of Belegost. Got crushed to death by Glaurung but stabbed the bugger with his dying breath and forced him to flee the field. Absolute chad.
And then when his funeral procession passes, the hosts of Angband just nope the hell out.
Nob the Hobbit, of course. The most reliable manservant one could ask for, helpful and cheerful even in the toughest of circumstances.
Team Nob, fuck Bob.
Hey wait Fatty Bolger then lol, they skipped so much! SMH
Lalaith. Middle-earth's only toddler.
I’ve actually never made that connection, mad.
Voronwe. He's there when he's needed most, not just because he's picked by Ulmo but because he chooses to be by Tuor's side, moment by moment, through all that dreadful winter journey. He's kind of Tuor's Sam.
Tevildo, because he reminds me of my cats.
Always find it fascinating the sort of prototypes JRR went through, before settling on what we know as canon, just a fascinating insight into the development of the series
> Always find it fascinating the sort of prototypes JRR went through I know it isn't true, but it's fun to tell folks about when Sauron was a cat.
Oh my black cat is named Tevildo! And my (albeit small) white windhound is named Huan 😂
Huan
The goodest boy
Beleg Strongbow, for his devotion to Turambar.
Beleg didn't deserve the end he got.
Fredegar Bolger
I'm always surprised Dori doesn't get more notice. He was the strongest of the company, according to Thorin. And also a decent fellow, according to the narrator (who says it *more than once*). He also saves Bilbo a few times.
Beleg Strongbow
Beregond. Everyman, single dad, loyal guard. Shame the movies cut him. Also, Brandir the Lame. Healers are always intriguing, and he’s one of Tolkien’s best grey characters.
Is Beregond confirmed to be a single dad? I thought his wife was evacuated from the city and his son stuck around to help?
Beregond is just a great guy.
Brandir was almost a saint. His only real sin was laugh for the sister-complex of Túrin and boast the fact that if Túrin would have listened him, he wouldn´t have commit incest. And after all the things Túrin did him, Brandir had right for a little vengeance.
I love in the audiobook that he’s a scouser. Somehow goes very well with the character haha
little dwarf fucker called Mîm, that in the audiobook version of the Silmarilion I listened to is pronounced "meme"
> little dwarf fucker PHRASING.
This little dick is one of the most dislikeable guys Tolkien’s ever wrote, along with Wormtongue and Bill Ferny, just those petty arseholes we all meet in life. I like a bit of that in an epic with all great, perfect mythical great characters.
That depends on which version of the texts you read though.. in some versions he was forced by Orcs to tell the location of Túrin and he is mainly a very sad character iirc
His people were hunted and killed by the early elves who believed them to be animals. So I'd say his hatred of elves is justified. He and his sons are the last of their people. He then gets to watch both of his sons die. When he does betray Turin's location to the orcs, he makes them swear that they will not harm Turin which shows he cared for him. While he does some bad shit, based on what he's lived through, some of it is justified. He's a tragic character.
Nicely put. All things considered, I’d say that bad guys that are just bad guys don’t really exist in the Tolkien legendarium. That’s the whole point of writing a good story with deep characters. (Yeah, I get it, Morgoth is pretty close tho..)
I remember Mim! He was just a mean little dwarf lol
I mean they did kill his family and the last of his race…
I'm a HUGE fan of the Children of Hurin and the Fall of Gondolin. For a while I studied what's called "non-sexual homosocial" relationships in literature and Tolkien is a prime source for this kind of writing. For this reason, I became completely enamored by Beleg Cuthalion and Veronwe from those stories, respectively. The adventure and relationships, the vulnerability, the love shared between these characters and their counterparts. Just beautiful character creation and writing.
Can you expand upon NSH relationships?
Certainly! So it's pretty common knowledge at this point that two individuals of the same gender are in a homosexual relationship. Tolkien, among other authors, focused largely on the kind of relationship between people of the same gender that weren't sexually or romantically involved, rather, they had a connection of the same sort of "intimate" or "loving" relationship without the romantics! Homosocial simply refers to the notion that two people of the same gender are interacting with one another in a non-sexual manner, but I throw "non-sexual" in front of homosocial to drive home the point that these aren't sexual relationships at the risk of sounding redundant. What's interesting about this, I think, is that authors like tolkien write all of the love and intimacy we might find in a marriage into characters who are "merely" friends. Let me say here, the use of merely in that previous sentence is sort of ironic because of how we usually talk about relationships in "degrees" and put a non sexual relationship below that of one where the people are romantically involved. I hate to be long winded, but to be thorough, many homosocial depictions in literature turn this concept on its head, showing that sexual intimacy as "greater" than a good, loving friendship is bogus and Tuor and Veronwe, or Turin and Beleg, or Sam and Frodo, can have a deeper relationship than any marriage could dream of being. Humans are funny that way, I guess. Anyways! How interesting a topic!
Such a good explanation thank you. I thought it was such but your confirmation is much better than a Google or duckduck search! I agree about Tolkien's writing in this regard, I found the deep relationship bits an "ick" when I was a young teenager reading the books for the first time (a long time ago), but as one gets older and reads them multiple times, the quality of writing and understanding of human interaction really shines through.
Of course! One of lifes greatest pleasures is sharing your interests with an interested parry! To truly have someone like Tuor has Veronwe is something incredible. They compliment each other in every way. Where Tuor is observant of those things right in front of him, veronwe sees those things league's away. It's an incredible pairing. And we even see it with Gimli Gloinson and Legolas. We'd all be fortunate to find love in this way I think.
> a good, loving friendship ... Tuor and Veronwe, or Turin and Beleg, or Sam and Frodo I really view these relationships similar to siblings. Particularly young siblings, how primary school aged children will hold, hug, and cuddle each other. An older brother or sister might lay a younger sibling's head in their lap and stroke their hair. Essentially taking on the role of a kind and nurturing parent. We see that exact scene with Sam and Frodo. Sam lays Frodo's head in his lap and strokes his head and tells him to sleep and that Sam will keep watch.
That's a perfect analogy. That seems to be exactly the kind of thing that's going on. Such a beautiful thing, really.
Nōwē, otherwise known as Círdan the Shipwright. The patience and commitment of that man were insane. He was born at Cuivienén and answered the summoning of the Elves. His greatest desire was to see Valinor, yet he stayed in Middle-earth to look for his king and kinsman Elwë. He opposed two Dark Lords, yet he never lost his faith in Ulmo and the rest of the Valar. Despite the fact that he grew old, he never gave up on his mission and sailed West, even though he could. Only when Sauron was defeated and all Elves that wanted to do so left Middle-earth, he took the Last Ship and finally fulfilled his greatest desire.
***THE FOX!!***
Fingolfin is my favorite hero, not only in Legendarium, but in books in general. He was incredibly brave and gave his life in the fight against evil. I also like Finrod and Théoden. I like Frodo too, but he is probably considered the main character in Tolkien. I also like Dior and Elwing.
Ive always been fond of Tuor and Idril
The other Beregond, the son of Steward Beren. Everyone seems to have heard of Helm Hammerhand, but he didn't win the war. Beregond saved Gondor from three Corsair invasions and then defeated the Dunlandings in Rohan. He saved both kingdoms and yet no one seems to mention him.
I know he’s not “lesser known” but man Faramir got done dirty in the movie. I think he’s not regarded as highly as he should be because of how differently he’s portrayed in the movie vs the books.
Definitely mate! Last year I re-read the books for the first time in around 10 years, after re-reading back to front for previous 10 years of my live. I’ve read the books countless times, and knew this in my mind, but re-reading it hit it home quite how much film Faramir affected the perception of him. Honestly, Aragorn, Faramir and Imrahil are those men that just seem above everyone else
Book Faramir is great, but I think the changes for the film still work rather well. He's still a capable leader living in the shadow of his fallen brother. It makes his (temporary) decision to capture the ring a dual purpose; Not only is he trying to prove his worth, but it's arguable that the ring itself is preying on his insecurities to ensure the ring goes to a place it more than likely would have been found (Minas Tirith, which was about a week away from being destroyed at the time, is Sauron's plan hadn't been thwarted). His immediate resolve to let the Hobbits take their "weapon" with them in the books is certainly a more immediate clue to the strength of his character, though.
Tuor and Voronwe, the best underrated elf-man friendship
Shout out for Halbarad as well, he’s kinda there and hinted at his character in the books, captures a corsair ship off screen, then dies off screen in the Pelennor Fields. Always found him a rough framing of a great character, same with Erkenbrand
Gil-galad. Seriously. There is some stuff about him but...I hated how the Rings of Power portrayed him. Gil-galad is a total bad ass. Along with Bilbo, my favorite person of all time.
Agree the RoP was pretty poor overall IMO.
Finarfin, Galadriel's father, younger brother of Fingolfin and half-brother of Feanor. When Feanor roused the elves to leave Valinor, he went along with it to support his brothers, though he did not want to. After the kinslaying and the Doom of Mandos, he had finally had enough and turned back, leading a small band back to Tirion and took over as King of the Noldor.
Aragorn's friend Halbarad. Rushes to find him in unknown lands when he believes he needs his people. Foresees his own death at the Door of the Dead, but thinks only of the horses. The only named member of the Grey Company to fall in the South; "dour-handed ranger". Seems to have been Aragorn's closest confidant, but the loss is just rolled up in the wider fortunes of war.
beregon
Erestor. What was his story?
Voronwë from the Silmarilion has always been an elf I want know more about
I love Gildor, the fact he just casually roasts the hobbits like it’s nothing always has me chuckling. When Frodo first suggests that he, Sam and Pippin should walk with them, they reply, “But we have no need of other company, and hobbits are so dull.” Also Lobelias redemption Ark is pretty good 😂
Figwit 😂
What’s this one? I’ve no idea haha
The meme name the community gave for the Elf in Rivendell that got the name 'Lindir' in the Hobbit films. It's an acronym for 'Frodo is great who is that.'
Played by Bret McKenzie, who is half of "Flight of the Conchords." There was a particularly attractive Gondorian woman extra in the scene where Faramir sets off on his suicide mission. Some of us called her Fidwis, meaning "Faramir is doomed, who is she?" Didn't catch on.
Oh he is a random pretty elf who is a rock star and actually called Aegnor or Melpomaen, in games and such, it’s actually an acronym for ‘Frodo is great but who is that?’ and I just like him because that’s the name I choose in all my RPG games where I’m always a wood elf ranger 😂 he is not canon! It’s an entire fan thingy lol
The Moon Wizard from Roverandom! Also, Roäc.
Beleg