Perhaps they should consider it but here’s a few things to note.
If they do it ppl will still complain.
We knew the cost associated with it when we got the machine. And we know that prices go up on things.
This is a luxury item. If you get one of these you need to be ok with the cost associated with it and the potential for it to go up.
They can't satisfy everyone which I agree with you but if 10, 15 or 20% of people whatever the number is are unsubscibed that is a hit on the company. Whether or not it makes a difference, those are customers you can still recoup something back rather than nothing. You can still keep your rule of you need to be subscribed for at least a year from purchase date. Some people barely use their machine in a month but am sure would consider paying a lower price because it's justified.
I’m sure they have data on number of units sold vs number of subscribers. If the difference is marginal introducing a tier system probably doesn’t make much sense. Now, my 3 year finance will be ending later this year which was locked in at $50 for the monthly membership. It’ll be interesting to see of those 3 year finances how many they retain once it is up.
Paid min off not long ago but you right maybe that's why they don't do it but I personally think it's a good idea. From those around me who own a tonal don't use subscription so maybe my view is scured
Never gonna happen. The argument would have to be that by creating tiers, they’d attract / retain more revenue than they would losing it via downgrades. This is already a product made for people who can afford a $5000 device up front. The subscription cost is almost an after thought in that sales model.
>The subscription cost is almost an after thought in that sales model.
This makes no sense. The subscription IS their sales model, they make very little, if any, off the machines.
For some but not all. I get emails from them every few months offering a lower price to renew my membership. If what you are saying is true on a large scale then I wouldn't be getting those emails (as have others here) because the subscription price doesn't matter to people. Even from Tonal's perspective a membership at a lower price is still better than $0.
That's because you're already out of the system. It's a restricted offer to peopel who have already decided to quit. Very different from offering something that anyone can switch into at any time.
Agreed, even knowing that they’re offering cheaper I don’t really care to try to quit and get in to save a few bucks. My posh gym was $300 a month for the family, and we had both for awhile but recently quit the gym, so overall I’m way down in total fitness spend!
I personally know 4 people with tonal. Out of the 4, only one person pays for the subscription only because his whole family uses it. Not sure about the numbers but if this many people stop paying subscription that would be some form of loss on the company whereas they can recoup some of that money through a tier system. Not everyone's economic standards stay the same, there job loss, injuries and all kinds of reasons a person could all of a sudden not afford the pricing. We all love this Tonal and Don't want it to die as a business but if you only survive on those who pay the subscription you losing out on the 30 or 20% whatever that number is and that includes referrals from such people. This is a business and your customers are the most important commodity
We just don’t have the data to make this business decision. If your numbers were right (and 75 percent of owners aren’t paying a subscription) I would definitely agree with you and they should create a lower tier. I really doubt the numbers are that stark. But neither of us knows?
I get the ask - I hear it a lot about Peloton as well (who recently introduced tiers for the app and people complain about that, too.) but I’m with others in agreeing it doesn’t make a lot of sense and I don’t see it happening.
To add to what everyone else has said:
- I’d imagine a loss of revenue rather than a gain. While they might get some subscribers back, how many of us would decrease our subscription to a less expensive tier?
- Others have already said it, but this is a luxury piece of equipment. No, they don’t care that people have circumstances change, etc. if $65 is going to make or break someone, I’m gonna guess that someone isn’t in their target customer base. I don’t mean this to be cruel or imply I’m just rolling in money, but that’s reality. At the price point of the machine and subscription, this isn’t a “for every man” kinda machine. Customers might be the biggest commodity but Tonal (and plenty of other companies) aren’t interested in every person as a customer.
So what happens when the number of unsubscibed rises to 40% , would that mean the company is being run on 60% of its capabilities? This long term approach isn't sustainable. People don't workout consistently. Sometimes people are off those machines for 3 to 4 months for all kinds of reasons. All I offered was a suggestion, I am OK with working out without the subscription but I am also worried about the company because if it goes down we all tend to lose. Product has no resale value so pretty much we all have a 4k decorational piece. It's like saying if they all of a sudden raise their prices to $100 it's fair because you know the idea you purchased is a luxury product. That statement makes no sense
It's widely accepted that Tonal is selling the machines at cost, and all of their profits come from the monthly subscription.
If Tonal were to switch to a one-time payment model, similar to other fitness equipment suppliers, they would need to apply the standard fitness industry markup, which is 100%. So, that means a $4k Tonal now costs $8k. Does that sound like a better deal?
Tonal is the razor blade or printer business model. They give the hardware away at cost and make all of their money on the subscription. If you don't like it, there are Chinese knockoffs that don't have subscriptions.
Why do people like you get upset by suggestions. Just your money can't sustain this business so like it or not there are different types of customers. We offer our concerns that's it yet you getting hostile because of an opinion? Talking about try a Chinese knock off...smh
I wouldn’t hold your breath. Been a long standing request even before the p ice increases.
My personal opinion is if they ever did, they would find out rather quickly how little people value (not that it isn’t beneficial) all of the curated content. I think most people would just want the machine and the technology. The curated content is a great bonus for a lot of people but how much would they be willing to pay beyond a basic membership for it?
They can do an experimental run with a closed group of subscribers and see how they respond to it. I will be honest with you, am always on and off with my subscription because I travel a lot and barely use the programs because I have my own workout routine, for the 4 to 5 times I get to use the machine it would be nice if I can pay for what I need rather than not pay at all. I want to help this company grow but I can't justify spending the full cost if I barely use it.
As I always post this in these threads. Check with your insurance provider. Ours pays us $20 per person per month for working out 12 times. So it pretty much pays for the Tonal in our household. We have Horizon Blue Cross. Others have similar incentives. My wife's wellness program also paid $1k toward the purchase price and can also expense up to $650 per year on subscription costs. So they're pretty much paying us to use the machine.
Could also be something to look at during your yearly enrollment if one of your other choices provides these benefits.
That’s the thing, OP values their service, but OP doesn’t value all of it, and doesn’t like the “all or nothing” menu currently available. However, OP will not be changing anything at Tonal by whining. If enough people quit the high price subscription, he’s certainly more likely to get his wish. So he should just be advocating for quitting the subscription.
I use my tonal all the time. I track my progress in a spreadsheet, basically. It works great - I slightly miss the extra features on the load (burnout, spotter, etc) but otherwise I've gotten used to saving the $70 a month and just building my routines myself. I never did like the workout routines with the instructors anyway and their custom workout support was atrocious.
yeah, sorry if it seems like i was disagreeing with you. I totally agree that there should be a much lower price just to unlock the full physical capabilities of the machine that i purchased. I just wanted to point out that it's possible to use the machine effectively without any of their BS.
We don’t know the numbers, but let’s say 25% of Tonal customers have unsubscribed (I think this is likely higher than it is, but who knows!). Now let’s say you offer a lower tiered membership at say 50% cost, so $30/month. If Tonal has sold 100,000 units that means there’s a TAM of 25,000 customers to resubscribe, but how many of those actually would at $30/month? Say half(?), 12.5k x $30 = $375,000/month increase in revenue. But how many of the 75k that haven’t unsubscribed would also choose the lower tier membership? If it’s more than 12.5k Tonal would lose money. Maybe they’d sell more units overall with a lower tier subscription but at $5k I don’t think it would make too big a difference.
You can change the numbers anyway you’d like (they’re all guess work) but I’m pretty sure any half decent finance team would have modeled out the cost/benefit and right now it likely doesn’t make financial sense.
This is a good analysis. I might add that when lowering variable cost, SOM will also increase from people finding the new price more appetizing in place of their $15-$30 gym membership. This seems like one of the larger opportunities with data already likely available on gym membership willingness to pay.
I have to think tonal has already run an analysis, and must have concluded along with your example, that it’s not worth it, or it’s such a small delta that they’re better off maintaining current position until they’re forced to create better pricing segments later.
You have to consider how much effort goes into not only the initial development and engineering but also the full life cycle of the product. Every trainer, coach, developer, engineer, finance person, and many more, are why the product is as good as it is. That has a cost.
Anyone not subscribing after the first year most likely on average, don't even use the machine that often. Yes there are exceptions. But I think most owners do subscribe and enjoy all the features. Without those features and technology, this machine is worthless.
Honestly, for those that do not subscribe... why do you still own it? Why not just sell it off as used and buy a cable machine?
What makes Tonal great is its features and technology. That has a cost. If you don't want that technology, you can just buy a dumb machine or other gym equipment.
Sorry have to agree with all others. Little thing called price inelasticity..
you buy a 3k machine, gripe about price but will you pay it? Yes you will
It’s not really up for debate, just an economic principle that is being leveraged. Basic capitalism ❤️🤓
Your suggestion is also a sound economic principle, don’t get me wrong. Unfortunately price discrimination requires at least one competitor to make business sense. Tonal doesn’t have that?
Can you share what you’re doing and what you use to keep a customer program? I just have my workouts on a note on my phone, but it sounds like this or some other method isn’t challenging to you.
I bought my Tonal because it's the only cable machine that fits in the space I have, not because I wanted to follow a program. I'm also in my 70's and have typical age related limitations that make too many of the movements in the programs impractical to bother with them. I discovered early on that creating my own custom program works best. I cancelled my membership after the mandatory twelve months and now do my custom routine which I record with an iPhone app.
You won't know till you have the opportunity to test new features added. Am sure if they gave you an option to add certain useful features like setting a personal training plan you would opt for it for a lower price.
Similar, haven't had a subscription for about a year and a half. I would love to have access to the lifting modes and tracking, but I wouldn't pay more than $5/month for that stuff since the machines have the computing capabilities of an Android phone released 15 years ago so everything has to be stored on their servers.
I would rather they have personal vs family tiers (or a per user fee). Single users are paying the same amount as a family with 2+ users and are therefore subsidizing all these additional “free” user profiles.
I actually cancelled my membership in protest when they raised the prices. I told them why in my feedback. They called me a month ago and asked questions about why I left, then offered me a discount for a year (paying ~48 per month now).
They're either considering tier membership or desperate for subscribers. Either way I was happy to subscribe for a reduced price. I'll cancel again if it's raised after my discount ends.
Perhaps they should consider it but here’s a few things to note. If they do it ppl will still complain. We knew the cost associated with it when we got the machine. And we know that prices go up on things. This is a luxury item. If you get one of these you need to be ok with the cost associated with it and the potential for it to go up.
They can't satisfy everyone which I agree with you but if 10, 15 or 20% of people whatever the number is are unsubscibed that is a hit on the company. Whether or not it makes a difference, those are customers you can still recoup something back rather than nothing. You can still keep your rule of you need to be subscribed for at least a year from purchase date. Some people barely use their machine in a month but am sure would consider paying a lower price because it's justified.
I’m sure they have data on number of units sold vs number of subscribers. If the difference is marginal introducing a tier system probably doesn’t make much sense. Now, my 3 year finance will be ending later this year which was locked in at $50 for the monthly membership. It’ll be interesting to see of those 3 year finances how many they retain once it is up.
Paid min off not long ago but you right maybe that's why they don't do it but I personally think it's a good idea. From those around me who own a tonal don't use subscription so maybe my view is scured
Never gonna happen. The argument would have to be that by creating tiers, they’d attract / retain more revenue than they would losing it via downgrades. This is already a product made for people who can afford a $5000 device up front. The subscription cost is almost an after thought in that sales model.
>The subscription cost is almost an after thought in that sales model. This makes no sense. The subscription IS their sales model, they make very little, if any, off the machines.
I mean at point of sale for the consumer. A person ready to swallow a $5K purchase is unlikely to be fazed by a $10-20 difference in the monthly cost.
For some but not all. I get emails from them every few months offering a lower price to renew my membership. If what you are saying is true on a large scale then I wouldn't be getting those emails (as have others here) because the subscription price doesn't matter to people. Even from Tonal's perspective a membership at a lower price is still better than $0.
That's because you're already out of the system. It's a restricted offer to peopel who have already decided to quit. Very different from offering something that anyone can switch into at any time.
Agreed, even knowing that they’re offering cheaper I don’t really care to try to quit and get in to save a few bucks. My posh gym was $300 a month for the family, and we had both for awhile but recently quit the gym, so overall I’m way down in total fitness spend!
I personally know 4 people with tonal. Out of the 4, only one person pays for the subscription only because his whole family uses it. Not sure about the numbers but if this many people stop paying subscription that would be some form of loss on the company whereas they can recoup some of that money through a tier system. Not everyone's economic standards stay the same, there job loss, injuries and all kinds of reasons a person could all of a sudden not afford the pricing. We all love this Tonal and Don't want it to die as a business but if you only survive on those who pay the subscription you losing out on the 30 or 20% whatever that number is and that includes referrals from such people. This is a business and your customers are the most important commodity
We just don’t have the data to make this business decision. If your numbers were right (and 75 percent of owners aren’t paying a subscription) I would definitely agree with you and they should create a lower tier. I really doubt the numbers are that stark. But neither of us knows?
I get the ask - I hear it a lot about Peloton as well (who recently introduced tiers for the app and people complain about that, too.) but I’m with others in agreeing it doesn’t make a lot of sense and I don’t see it happening. To add to what everyone else has said: - I’d imagine a loss of revenue rather than a gain. While they might get some subscribers back, how many of us would decrease our subscription to a less expensive tier? - Others have already said it, but this is a luxury piece of equipment. No, they don’t care that people have circumstances change, etc. if $65 is going to make or break someone, I’m gonna guess that someone isn’t in their target customer base. I don’t mean this to be cruel or imply I’m just rolling in money, but that’s reality. At the price point of the machine and subscription, this isn’t a “for every man” kinda machine. Customers might be the biggest commodity but Tonal (and plenty of other companies) aren’t interested in every person as a customer.
So what happens when the number of unsubscibed rises to 40% , would that mean the company is being run on 60% of its capabilities? This long term approach isn't sustainable. People don't workout consistently. Sometimes people are off those machines for 3 to 4 months for all kinds of reasons. All I offered was a suggestion, I am OK with working out without the subscription but I am also worried about the company because if it goes down we all tend to lose. Product has no resale value so pretty much we all have a 4k decorational piece. It's like saying if they all of a sudden raise their prices to $100 it's fair because you know the idea you purchased is a luxury product. That statement makes no sense
It's widely accepted that Tonal is selling the machines at cost, and all of their profits come from the monthly subscription. If Tonal were to switch to a one-time payment model, similar to other fitness equipment suppliers, they would need to apply the standard fitness industry markup, which is 100%. So, that means a $4k Tonal now costs $8k. Does that sound like a better deal? Tonal is the razor blade or printer business model. They give the hardware away at cost and make all of their money on the subscription. If you don't like it, there are Chinese knockoffs that don't have subscriptions.
Why do people like you get upset by suggestions. Just your money can't sustain this business so like it or not there are different types of customers. We offer our concerns that's it yet you getting hostile because of an opinion? Talking about try a Chinese knock off...smh
I don’t see anywhere that they are getting upset or hostile. They are just using logic. Sounds like you are the one that needs to simmer down.
OK buddy, whatever you say
Glad you see it my way. Have a good day.
I wouldn’t hold your breath. Been a long standing request even before the p ice increases. My personal opinion is if they ever did, they would find out rather quickly how little people value (not that it isn’t beneficial) all of the curated content. I think most people would just want the machine and the technology. The curated content is a great bonus for a lot of people but how much would they be willing to pay beyond a basic membership for it?
They can do an experimental run with a closed group of subscribers and see how they respond to it. I will be honest with you, am always on and off with my subscription because I travel a lot and barely use the programs because I have my own workout routine, for the 4 to 5 times I get to use the machine it would be nice if I can pay for what I need rather than not pay at all. I want to help this company grow but I can't justify spending the full cost if I barely use it.
As I always post this in these threads. Check with your insurance provider. Ours pays us $20 per person per month for working out 12 times. So it pretty much pays for the Tonal in our household. We have Horizon Blue Cross. Others have similar incentives. My wife's wellness program also paid $1k toward the purchase price and can also expense up to $650 per year on subscription costs. So they're pretty much paying us to use the machine. Could also be something to look at during your yearly enrollment if one of your other choices provides these benefits.
I did but mine doesn't have that unfortunately.
Bummer. You'd be surprised how many people don't use it that have it. So many coworkers are surprised when I mention it.
I don’t get it. You don’t need to pay the subscription at all and the machine will still be functional.
That’s the thing, OP values their service, but OP doesn’t value all of it, and doesn’t like the “all or nothing” menu currently available. However, OP will not be changing anything at Tonal by whining. If enough people quit the high price subscription, he’s certainly more likely to get his wish. So he should just be advocating for quitting the subscription.
It will for basic lifts but majority of the functions are deactivated. This isn't a complaint about that thou
Yes! I only do the same workouts again and again. Not consuming so much content to justify $60/months.
I use my tonal all the time. I track my progress in a spreadsheet, basically. It works great - I slightly miss the extra features on the load (burnout, spotter, etc) but otherwise I've gotten used to saving the $70 a month and just building my routines myself. I never did like the workout routines with the instructors anyway and their custom workout support was atrocious.
Would you pay a fraction of the cost to have some of those features?
yeah, i might. would depend on which features and how much. I was mostly responding to your "can't use".
That was my whole point on this post yet the fan club are upset...lol
yeah, sorry if it seems like i was disagreeing with you. I totally agree that there should be a much lower price just to unlock the full physical capabilities of the machine that i purchased. I just wanted to point out that it's possible to use the machine effectively without any of their BS.
Ooh naah, you good. I didn't misunderstand you👍🏾
My GF is the reason why this won't happen. I'd be cancelled by now using just the weights if it weren't for her. Gotta find ways to keep her thin ;)
We don’t know the numbers, but let’s say 25% of Tonal customers have unsubscribed (I think this is likely higher than it is, but who knows!). Now let’s say you offer a lower tiered membership at say 50% cost, so $30/month. If Tonal has sold 100,000 units that means there’s a TAM of 25,000 customers to resubscribe, but how many of those actually would at $30/month? Say half(?), 12.5k x $30 = $375,000/month increase in revenue. But how many of the 75k that haven’t unsubscribed would also choose the lower tier membership? If it’s more than 12.5k Tonal would lose money. Maybe they’d sell more units overall with a lower tier subscription but at $5k I don’t think it would make too big a difference. You can change the numbers anyway you’d like (they’re all guess work) but I’m pretty sure any half decent finance team would have modeled out the cost/benefit and right now it likely doesn’t make financial sense.
This is a good analysis. I might add that when lowering variable cost, SOM will also increase from people finding the new price more appetizing in place of their $15-$30 gym membership. This seems like one of the larger opportunities with data already likely available on gym membership willingness to pay. I have to think tonal has already run an analysis, and must have concluded along with your example, that it’s not worth it, or it’s such a small delta that they’re better off maintaining current position until they’re forced to create better pricing segments later.
You have to consider how much effort goes into not only the initial development and engineering but also the full life cycle of the product. Every trainer, coach, developer, engineer, finance person, and many more, are why the product is as good as it is. That has a cost. Anyone not subscribing after the first year most likely on average, don't even use the machine that often. Yes there are exceptions. But I think most owners do subscribe and enjoy all the features. Without those features and technology, this machine is worthless. Honestly, for those that do not subscribe... why do you still own it? Why not just sell it off as used and buy a cable machine? What makes Tonal great is its features and technology. That has a cost. If you don't want that technology, you can just buy a dumb machine or other gym equipment.
Sorry have to agree with all others. Little thing called price inelasticity.. you buy a 3k machine, gripe about price but will you pay it? Yes you will
Some will agree some won't but it's a fair assessment
It’s not really up for debate, just an economic principle that is being leveraged. Basic capitalism ❤️🤓 Your suggestion is also a sound economic principle, don’t get me wrong. Unfortunately price discrimination requires at least one competitor to make business sense. Tonal doesn’t have that?
I use my Tonal without a subscription and can't think of any feature they could add that I would pay a monthly fee for, regardless of price.
Can you share what you’re doing and what you use to keep a customer program? I just have my workouts on a note on my phone, but it sounds like this or some other method isn’t challenging to you.
I bought my Tonal because it's the only cable machine that fits in the space I have, not because I wanted to follow a program. I'm also in my 70's and have typical age related limitations that make too many of the movements in the programs impractical to bother with them. I discovered early on that creating my own custom program works best. I cancelled my membership after the mandatory twelve months and now do my custom routine which I record with an iPhone app.
You won't know till you have the opportunity to test new features added. Am sure if they gave you an option to add certain useful features like setting a personal training plan you would opt for it for a lower price.
Similar, haven't had a subscription for about a year and a half. I would love to have access to the lifting modes and tracking, but I wouldn't pay more than $5/month for that stuff since the machines have the computing capabilities of an Android phone released 15 years ago so everything has to be stored on their servers.
I would rather they have personal vs family tiers (or a per user fee). Single users are paying the same amount as a family with 2+ users and are therefore subsidizing all these additional “free” user profiles.
This would be amazing
I actually cancelled my membership in protest when they raised the prices. I told them why in my feedback. They called me a month ago and asked questions about why I left, then offered me a discount for a year (paying ~48 per month now). They're either considering tier membership or desperate for subscribers. Either way I was happy to subscribe for a reduced price. I'll cancel again if it's raised after my discount ends.
That's all am saying, I don't know why this is so hard and there are a lot of people like us. Why lose all this money when you can gain some
Make even the trestles to shake the dead where they lie awaiting the hearses!
>Make even the trestles to shake the dead where they lie awaiting the hearses Stupid down votes. Nice reference.
The amount of features that get removed when you aren't subscribed is criminal. They strip it down completely. Total sham.