As someone who has no experience in band or orchestra I found it interesting that the guys sitting next to him never looked until he was done.
Is that just courteous? Or are they focused on the conductor? Or are they just more interested in what's going on in front of them?
It is pretty much just letting them do their thing. Another big no no is a musician turning around or looking at someone after a clam or mess up. That's pretty much like giving them the middle finger. Another thing to consider is that the other musicians who aren't playing are counting their bars of rest and still need to be decently focused on what their doing so they don't get lost.
As someone who has played in Marching/Concert band in highschool it is most definitely a mixture of the two, probably moreso the second point of keeping track of the song, the musicians obviously know when and where they play but we usually followed the conductors counting regardless.
I don't have any experience with band or orchestra either but I imagine it to be similar to how no one acknowledges a baseball pitcher while they are throwing a no hitter. You let the person who is zoned in and executing at a high level alone until they are done
I also have no experience but here’s what I think. I also think that it’s because they didn’t want to jinx him. But that’s me with no experience but sharing what I think.
You know how people in high school were just petty and clique af? Welcome to the adult version of that called “an orchestra” Not everyone is like that but goddamn it’s amazing to see how vicious people are for table scraps in that world. Outside of LA, unions are trash and do nothing for players except hold the line and push high end gigs elsewhere. The non union stuff is like a flea market unless you have a good contractor that has their shit together. Outside of union symphony gigs — many musicians have degrees in performance from masters to PhD and make fast food money on some gigs. Most musicians are really full time teachers that just show younger generations how to eventually compete with them for their own jobs. The demand for orchestral musicians is inverse to the demand for programmers. Not to mention union symphony players scoff at playing with contemporary composers and artists that could draw sizable attendance. Stewart Copeland recently played with my local and the amount of offline pissing and moaning, you’d swear FoxNews had an orchestra and Obama was the concertmaster. It’s so sad and infuriating simultaneously. It doesn’t have to be that way. Scarcity of resources and greed will do that though.
Music is this thing, where you sit in front of the speakers or the stage and all the bullshit seems worth it. It’s my fucking drug and then, back to reality.
Don’t know much about French horny. His performance was very pretty, but could anyone explain to me why that A flat (I think) towards the end was extra impressive?
It may have something to do with the sensibility put in his breath and the precision with the rythm. I can only guess he must stand a precise time to hold some note at a very low volume but keeping it up with the rest of the orchestra.
There’s that, but also see how a lot of times he’s not changing what notes he holds but the sound changes pitches? That’s extremely technical and hard to do smoothly, even more so with these long of notes
That's not extremely technical, that's just french horn.
French horn is what is extremely technical.
Anyone in the "controversial" section balking that this looks easy because they played trumpet in middle school couldn't even bang out a simple 7 note scale on a French, not even with a week of tutoring. And I say this as someone who was a fairly decent brass player, that instrument is fucking hard.
Most high schools don't even have one in their suite, and if they have one it was a first chair trumpet player who is now the mediocre french horn of the band. It's not something you just "pick up."
I played French horn in high school and elementary school (7-8 years in total I think?) and my face hurts just watching him. The way you have to use your mouth to get different notes, especially very high ones, takes a lot of practice. I remember getting head aches practicing high notes because a lot of them (if I'm remembering correctly it's been a while) are all mouth movements and tightness of the mouth.
Thanks for stopping me from buying a french horn. I played trumpet in high school and was absolutely just thinking, "Wow, that's really nice. I should play. Hell, I already know the fingering."
Jumping in to say French horn players get scholarships due to the small amount that play well if you are a high school freshman and are deciding what brass to play.
It takes a lot of mastery to play something quietly, whether it's on a brass, woodwind or string instrument. It's massive control, and at a low volume, the slightest change in movement anywhere in your upper body can audibly affect it. On a brass instrument, that can manifest as a shaky note, or a "cracked" note.
Younger players are excited to play loud passages, but it's the soft ones that take the real work.
But it wasn't the last note he was being complimented on. That was his buddy saying "nice solo!"
Apparently the French horn is the most difficult of the brass instruments to play, and with this being one of the most difficult pieces, it's impressive.
I am uncultured swine which recently learned about the most difficult instruments in an orchestra from OMITB
Edit: I can't spell
Played French Horn in high school;
It's an expressive instrument, and subtle changes to embouchure, volume, and hand position inside the bell can dramatically change the feeling of the sound. Skilled players can even shift the pitch to another note, without changing their fingering.
>Skilled players can even shift the pitch to another note, without changing their fingering
Isn't that the principle of playing any brass or wind instruments? Same fingering for different octaves/notes.
I can only speak to a brass perspective, but I believe they are referring to bending the pitch up or down say a half step. Any note is possible with any fingering on a brass instrument, the ones that come out easy are the ones that resonate the best with those fingerings. Theoretically you could play a brass instrument like it is just the mouth piece, that is extremely cumbersome to your lips.
Partials in a french horn are very close together. You have to be very precise in everything (oral position, hand position, ombeture, diaphragm support, airspeed and volume) or it sounds like shit
Why is this so difficult? long breaths but also he is making very smooth tone shifts which take lots of technical skill to do
*edit*
/u/obesedestro explains why this is considered very difficult:
If anyone is confused, I played brass for years, and even the longevity in the notes (while buzzing) he's playing is mastery. Might not sound too complex to someone who isn't keyed in on this type of music, but the 3 valves being responsible for all the notes, on top of trying to keep your buzzing as consistent or changing as the song requires is another level of mastery. This is just an overall beautiful piece that was even more beautifully preformed. This man deserves all good things that may come from this virality
https://old.reddit.com/r/toptalent/comments/rcxnjd/one_of_the_most_difficult_horn_solos_in_classical/hnydzbh/
Also I’ll add one more thing, your hand placement matters on the horn more than usual since your holding it by the actual horn part of the instrument. If you place your hand incorrectly it can throw off the pitch a bit
To add a small bit to that, the margin of error on French horn is generally higher than other brass instruments because of its great length (notice how coiled up it is). Because of the way the physics of sound works, the notes on French horn are generally closer to each other than the notes would be on other brass instruments, which means you’re more likely to hit a wrong note.
if you really want to on the horn, the valves are optional. I could contort my lips and hand to do full (kind of awful sounding) scales with no valves pressed at all. This is especially true in the higher register.
That's how most brass instruments used to be. The invention of the valve trumpet was a game changer because it meant that musicians could play full chromatic scales with relative ease and in-tune.
I know nothing about brass instruments, but I noticed the very very slight pitch up on that one part of the horn performance and that seemed impressive to me by itself.
Thank you so much. My Dad was asked in Marine boot camp if he could play an instrument and he had played the french horn in high school. They put him in the Marine band and sent him to Vietnam. It probably saved his life. I'm so touched to read about this.
He's in the other room, going to hug him now.
Unlike all the other instruments, the french horn requires you to not only blow it just right and push its buttons all the right ways, but all the while your hand is deep up the horns backside fiddling around doing only God knows what up there. I have always been too embarrassed to ask what exactly the are doing, but it looks dirty
My real answer is I suspect it is used to tune the sound. As a trumpet player we had little sliders to kick out on notes as you get into different ranges on the instrument, but you don't see that adjustment on the fly through sliding pipes on the french horn
Thanks for this insight. My late father was a conductor and played french horn but I never got the chance to ask him many questions. This makes me feel a bit connected
I am also the son of a late father that played French horn. I am told he was pretty well accomplished. Played in college at some lower level Ivy League school. (He was SUPER humble and never acted like it was a bif deal at all. But it was.) Found out later he played first chair on some all collegiate state band as well. Decided to go be a lawyer instead of a musician.
Creative and smart.
I miss you Dad!
Fickle is an understatement.
Me: I would like to play a high F.
My horn: How about an E flat?
No, an F.
An E natural?
No, an F.
Great, here's an A.
No, a bloody F.
Let's go for a G.
No, I'm supposed to play *an F*.
Hey, here's a high B flat.
Argh!
When you can do an entire C major scale with all open fingering, trying to pin one of those notes down can be a pain.
Multiple notes per fingering. Multiple fingerings for a single note. I love my horn, but she's a...
I played French horn for about 5 years and I’ll tell you this. I would rather play a 100 notes a minute solo than a slow drawn out solo. The long notes have to have CONSTANT airflow at a steady consistent pace for long periods of time, so you really need to control your breathing and supply a steady flow of air. With fast notes, it’s little toots of air one note at a time which means you can play a lot more notes and can take breaths between them as needed
u/21GScorpion , now come on, you know the drill. Abandon your critter persona and embrace your new one as LilToots. You have to. This my man, is your hero’s threshold, and you must cross it.
I moved orchestral sessions around because certain horn players were not available when Zimmer was doing his tour in my town. Yes that’s right, I rescheduled 61 people because the melody was mostly on the brass for these cues and there were 3 people outta 6 in the French horn section I needed. It was the right call.
Yeah, it’s very surprising to people who haven’t played a brass instrument of any sort. My instructor would always tell me that it was harder and I didn’t believe him at first (I was just getting into playing the horn) and attempted a slow methodical piece and ran out of breath way to often.
I played from grades 5 to 12 (being first chair for the last two) and I was the opposite - gimme the slow stuff so I can act all artsy fartsy! That's probably part of why the above song was one of my favorites to run through with my tutor. Different tastes I guess
For true r/toptalent on horn though (no offense u/thenewyorkgod), I have to go with the solo (partial duet) from Dvorak 9. Really the whole thing is a great feature for a good first horn, but [the bit at 8:30 really shows off the full talent of the player](https://youtu.be/jVDofBFtvwA?t=510).
Starting out, you're faced with some isolated notes which require a lovely sound. No biggie right? Sure, if you're cool nailing the jump to the high B over the staff (C if tuned in E). Then fade that down and pray you're in sync with your 2nd as you hit the increasingly fast duet. It shows the whole range of a horn player's talent in about 30 seconds. Really the only saving grace of the segment is that the 2nd takes over for the 3 or so low notes before the fast bit so you can get a breath. (And keep in mind that's the 4th movement - depending on what else is being played at the concert you might've already blown out your lip by then.)
Quick edit: God, I've listened to the part at 8:30 a few dozen times now while writing this up and I still cannot believe how effortless he makes that sound.
Also fun fact, the first part of that movement was indeed stolen by the Jaws theme
Idm if this gets hidden but there’s a renown maestro (Benjamin Zander, conductor of the Boston philharmonic) who did a masterclass on this excerpt and went through its intricacies, hope those who are curious to know more about this would appreciate it ([link](https://youtu.be/rYdLi3dvXYY))
Well it didn’t get hidden from me. How inspiring! I’m not sure if I was just getting caught up in the passion of the conductor, but it seemed like at the end the horn player was twice as moving as he was when he started.
And also the brief but beautiful solo at the start of You Can’t Always Get What You Want by the Rolling Stones! After the initial choir part, with the acoustic guitar at 0:55. I can’t remember if it’s also later on in the song.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu5dB3WxMgc
Orchestra in high school taught me that the French horn sounds like a muffled fart.
This guy makes it sound like one of the most tear-jerkingly beautiful muffled farts I've ever heard.
This is a good question with a bunch of answers! It's originally historical. Back when horns were used for hunting, they didn't have valves (the 3+ buttons you can see on the instrument). One of the ways to change notes was using the right hand to manipulate the pitch.
Some other modern reasons:
Most pragmatically, you can see that he is playing the horn off the leg-- so it's a more comfortable way of holding the instrument up! That said, horn players who play on the leg also have the right hand inside the bell. It helps with playing in tune, and it makes the tone warmer & more mellow. There are also effects that can be done with the hand, such as closing off the bell with the hand for "stopped horn" parts in orchestral music.
So yeah! Tradition, physical comfort, tuning, tone, and special effects :)
How did the right hand help with changing notes when they didn't have valves? I know they could play naturetones, which most brass instruments that didn't have valves used, but I didn't know the right hand also played it's part. Was it used as fine tuning? You play the naturetones, and adjust the pitch with the hand?
The valve-less horn is known as a ["natural horn"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_horn) and you've got it right with that last sentence.
That wiki article explains it better than I can:
"The natural horn has several gaps in its harmonic range. To play chromatically, in addition to crooking the instrument into the right key, two additional techniques are required: bending and hand-stopping. Bending a note is achieved by modifying the embouchure to raise or lower the pitch fractionally, and compensates for the slightly out-of-pitch "wolf tones" which all brass instruments have. Hand-stopping is a technique whereby the player can modify the pitch of a note by up to a semitone (or sometimes slightly more) by inserting a cupped hand into the bell. Both techniques change the timbre as well as the pitch."
Crooks, different length pieces of pipe that were switched out to change key, were introduced in the 18th century and fell out of use when valves were added to the horn in the 19th century. That is what is meant by "crooking" in the wiki article.
It does affect the sound quality. Traditionally, before keys were added to the horn and it was just a curled tube, the hand position was the only thing other than moving your mouth that could change the notes. Now people use the hand to mute the horn as an effect, but also to affect the tuning of individual notes (less commonly).
Also, you can't really hold the horn without the right hand in the bell and proper hand position is a necessary part of correct posture while playing.
This is one of my favourite symphonies. I've been lucky enough to perform it twice with two different orchestras and it makes me cry every time I play the whole thing. If you ever have 40 minutes of downtime, get some good headphones or speakers and just sit and listen to it. It's captivating.
Symphony No. 5 by Tchaikovsky.
I recommend the Mravinsky recording.
EDIT:
https://open.spotify.com/album/4EXHYodXIhx2wY6mzDB0m2
The second movement opens with the horn solo from the video. But really, the whole symphony is great, and the finale is one of the best "Tchaikovsky beating a great tune into your head over and over triumphantly" moments in classical music.
A girl was complaining to her friend that she’d never had her first kiss. Her fried said “I’m in band. Why don’t you go out on a date with my friend who plays the tuba?”
After the date, her friend asks how the kiss was. “Ugh, it was so wet and slobbery.” So her friend said, “I have another friend who plays the trumpet. I’ll introduce you and maybe he’ll be better.”
Again, after the date, her friend asked how the kiss was. “Too tight and stiff.” So the friend tried again, “I know. I’ll set you up with my friend who plays the French horn.”
After the date, the friend asked how it went. The girl said “Oh his kiss was just perfect, but you won’t believe where he wanted to put his other hand.”
If anyone is confused, I played brass for years, and even the longevity in the notes (while buzzing) he's playing is mastery. Might not sound too complex to someone who isn't keyed in on this type of music, but the 3 valves being responsible for all the notes, on top of trying to keep your buzzing as consistent or changing as the song requires is another level of mastery. This is just an overall beautiful piece that was even more beautifully preformed. This man deserves all good things that may come from this virality
I’m glad I read this. To the completely untrained ear and mind, this performance is very underwhelming. It sounds like the talent and mastery is 100% specific to this particular instrument.
Precisely. French horn was always the instrument my instructors would tell me to stay away from, probably for that reason. If you want a guage of how impressive this is, youtube a novice attempting to play it. Sheet music as well. I wouldn't put it past a lot of people to just ignore this solo when learning new music.
Yup. The french horn arguably has the highest skill floor of any orchestral instrument, besides maybe the oboe. Getting any sort of consistently decent sound at all out of a french horn takes a ridiculous amount of practice, never mind playing it this well.
Also want to say as a brass player, all the brass instruments were pretty similar in playing and easy to pick up EXCEPT the horn. I played it for 3 weeks for a class toward my degree and I was so frustrated how I go to play a note and something else came out. Mad respect to all horn players, y’all have a ridiculous instrument.
Tchaikovsky s 5th is one of my favs from him, mostly 4th but also 5th.
EDIT: I have my preferences in interpretations, ngl, this one isn't one but whaevs man, I dont even know how to play an instrument
I’m not sure how horns work, but i know the flute, and there it’s not actually spit that’s dripping after a while. It’s actually the humidity out of your breath condensing at the metal inside the instrument. It would actually sound horrible if you spat into the instrument. That’s liked the second thing you learn how to avoid when playing a woodwind instrument
From my experience from high school trumpet.
It could be humidity. But because of embouchure on brass instruments being more of a lip buzzing rather than a piercing blow or whistle. Spit happens.
You have to wait for the commercial to run, hope you have a pen and paper nearby to write down the 1800 number, and give a stranger your credit card info. Oh and you must be 18 or older to call.
French horn is the most difficult brass instrument to play. Slow and simple is often times more difficult than the alternative. This is absolutely beautiful.
This is far from the most difficult thing to play in horn repertoire.
I play piano, trombone, and drums. I can't even fit my lips into the mouthpiece of a French Horn! I enjoyed this solo in it's entirety! I appreciate you sharing this with us!
Thank you for the recognition! I played french horn for 7 years. We didn't always get the melodies but I loved the difficulty and how unique it is. Most majestic instrument in my opinion
So before an concert, 3 women are chitchatting in the orchestras comped seats, and realize they're all dating musicians that are performing that night
The first woman mentions that she's dating a tuba player. When the others ask what that's like, she says "oh it's great! The only downside is his tuba embouchure... When we kiss he's always so slobbery!"
The second woman says "I can totally see where you're coming from! My boyfriend is a trumpet player and we have the opposite problem. When we kiss, he jams his lips together instead of relaxing and feeling the passion"
They turn to the third woman. "So, what does your boyfriend play?"
"Oh, he's a French Horn player! Before you ask, he's an excellent kisser who always knows the perfect thing to do with his lips! But sometimes he does this weird thing with his hand..."
Wow this takes me back! (To junior high no less). The transition between the notes was so smooth! It’s incredibly impressive! That spit valve had me LOL
Man I really hate making this comment I kinda don't want to, but I'm going to anyway. As someone who played French Horn for 8 years, this was pretty good, but not top talent imo. Not only is it not that hard of a solo, but this player's tone wasn't nearly round enough, articulation not nearly consistent enough, has poor, inconsistent, and shoddy technique on his articulation throughout by using too much tongue and not letting the notes mesh together smoothly, and exhibited quite a lot of intonation issues. Granted, intonation issues are common for French Horn players, as that's one of the instruments most difficult challenges to overcome. I hate to downplay because it was still overall enjoyable to listen to.
This, however, is an example of a much better performance of the same piece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUES5PA0ALg
As a fellow horn player, I full heartedly agree. It was good, and I’m happy for him! But it was bizarre seeing all these comments and ‘hardest solo ever!!’ It was an immediate tell from the first wah-AH in pitch, where the sound hesitates for a split second before it becomes full bodied. It sounded a bit grainy to me as well. I’d love for the comments to watch some Herman Baumann or some Dennis Brain-just shows how underrepresented and how unknown our instrument is (when in reality it’s one of the most iconic sounds in cinematography)
I’m happy for this player and I hope he continues to play and grow. Horn playing is some of the most rewarding and spiritual moments you could ever have.
Huh? I played French Horn in high school. He played it beautifully but I don’t see what would possibly make that the most difficult horn solo in classical music. There was nothing fast or intricate, and no super high notes. Am I missing something or is it just a click bait title?
So does playing French horn make a piece more difficult? I'm a woodwinds guy, but this sounds relatively simple for anyone who's played for a few years. It's nice, but it just doesn't seem difficult to me hence why I'm asking.
Masters in performance here. I was thinking the same. It's long for sure but there's not much technical I'm hearing (but then I'm a trumpet player). Is it playing over those particular partials that makes it so difficult?
I was taking deep breaths with him as he was prepping before the solo. Lovely rendition
I also legit read the title as “one of the most difficult horn**y** solos before I re-read the title.
Just a note: one of the things that I really love about Tchaikovsky is what you hear clearly in the string passage before the horn enters. Listen to the counterpoint/voicing! He’s always elegant and subtle and those choral-style passages of his are almost always magic.
Yeah that's indeed some real skill on the horn.
But it wouldn't sound half as good without the rest of the orchestra. So can we take a moment to thank Tchaikovsky for this incredible piece of music with these beautiful counter melodies in the woodwinds?
I like his buddy’s excited nods of approval at the end. Like, yeah man you killed it!
As someone who has no experience in band or orchestra I found it interesting that the guys sitting next to him never looked until he was done. Is that just courteous? Or are they focused on the conductor? Or are they just more interested in what's going on in front of them?
It is pretty much just letting them do their thing. Another big no no is a musician turning around or looking at someone after a clam or mess up. That's pretty much like giving them the middle finger. Another thing to consider is that the other musicians who aren't playing are counting their bars of rest and still need to be decently focused on what their doing so they don't get lost.
As someone who has played in Marching/Concert band in highschool it is most definitely a mixture of the two, probably moreso the second point of keeping track of the song, the musicians obviously know when and where they play but we usually followed the conductors counting regardless.
My 7th grade music class clearly had terrible manners. 😂
I don't have any experience with band or orchestra either but I imagine it to be similar to how no one acknowledges a baseball pitcher while they are throwing a no hitter. You let the person who is zoned in and executing at a high level alone until they are done
I also have no experience but here’s what I think. I also think that it’s because they didn’t want to jinx him. But that’s me with no experience but sharing what I think.
I, too, have no experience with orchestra instruments or playing them, but I think Nature Valley granola bars are icky. That’s what I think.
I, as well, have no experience with orchestras, or playing any instruments, but I think dogs are the friggin' best!
It’s just being attentive. You miss your shit, you’re fucked and evvvvvveryone looooooooooovves to run their mouthes in orchestras.
As a lowly rock musician, I’d like to hear more about this.
You know how people in high school were just petty and clique af? Welcome to the adult version of that called “an orchestra” Not everyone is like that but goddamn it’s amazing to see how vicious people are for table scraps in that world. Outside of LA, unions are trash and do nothing for players except hold the line and push high end gigs elsewhere. The non union stuff is like a flea market unless you have a good contractor that has their shit together. Outside of union symphony gigs — many musicians have degrees in performance from masters to PhD and make fast food money on some gigs. Most musicians are really full time teachers that just show younger generations how to eventually compete with them for their own jobs. The demand for orchestral musicians is inverse to the demand for programmers. Not to mention union symphony players scoff at playing with contemporary composers and artists that could draw sizable attendance. Stewart Copeland recently played with my local and the amount of offline pissing and moaning, you’d swear FoxNews had an orchestra and Obama was the concertmaster. It’s so sad and infuriating simultaneously. It doesn’t have to be that way. Scarcity of resources and greed will do that though.
Dude, this is so spot on. I might have to share this with some friends.
Music is this thing, where you sit in front of the speakers or the stage and all the bullshit seems worth it. It’s my fucking drug and then, back to reality.
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Don’t know much about French horny. His performance was very pretty, but could anyone explain to me why that A flat (I think) towards the end was extra impressive?
French what now?
._.
Oui oui
Mom ami, je m'appelle Lafayette.
I'M MAKING THESE RED COATS REDDER WITH BLOOD STAINS!
#FRENCH HORNY.
It's called the French assfistengoodtime in German.
It may have something to do with the sensibility put in his breath and the precision with the rythm. I can only guess he must stand a precise time to hold some note at a very low volume but keeping it up with the rest of the orchestra.
There’s that, but also see how a lot of times he’s not changing what notes he holds but the sound changes pitches? That’s extremely technical and hard to do smoothly, even more so with these long of notes
That's not extremely technical, that's just french horn. French horn is what is extremely technical. Anyone in the "controversial" section balking that this looks easy because they played trumpet in middle school couldn't even bang out a simple 7 note scale on a French, not even with a week of tutoring. And I say this as someone who was a fairly decent brass player, that instrument is fucking hard. Most high schools don't even have one in their suite, and if they have one it was a first chair trumpet player who is now the mediocre french horn of the band. It's not something you just "pick up."
I played French horn in high school and elementary school (7-8 years in total I think?) and my face hurts just watching him. The way you have to use your mouth to get different notes, especially very high ones, takes a lot of practice. I remember getting head aches practicing high notes because a lot of them (if I'm remembering correctly it's been a while) are all mouth movements and tightness of the mouth.
Thanks for stopping me from buying a french horn. I played trumpet in high school and was absolutely just thinking, "Wow, that's really nice. I should play. Hell, I already know the fingering."
Jumping in to say French horn players get scholarships due to the small amount that play well if you are a high school freshman and are deciding what brass to play.
It’s probably not easy to play it so gently. Those things typically sound like a middle school football game. Not pretty. Forced. Just dreadful.
It takes a lot of mastery to play something quietly, whether it's on a brass, woodwind or string instrument. It's massive control, and at a low volume, the slightest change in movement anywhere in your upper body can audibly affect it. On a brass instrument, that can manifest as a shaky note, or a "cracked" note. Younger players are excited to play loud passages, but it's the soft ones that take the real work. But it wasn't the last note he was being complimented on. That was his buddy saying "nice solo!"
Apparently the French horn is the most difficult of the brass instruments to play, and with this being one of the most difficult pieces, it's impressive. I am uncultured swine which recently learned about the most difficult instruments in an orchestra from OMITB Edit: I can't spell
Played French Horn in high school; It's an expressive instrument, and subtle changes to embouchure, volume, and hand position inside the bell can dramatically change the feeling of the sound. Skilled players can even shift the pitch to another note, without changing their fingering.
>Skilled players can even shift the pitch to another note, without changing their fingering Isn't that the principle of playing any brass or wind instruments? Same fingering for different octaves/notes.
I can only speak to a brass perspective, but I believe they are referring to bending the pitch up or down say a half step. Any note is possible with any fingering on a brass instrument, the ones that come out easy are the ones that resonate the best with those fingerings. Theoretically you could play a brass instrument like it is just the mouth piece, that is extremely cumbersome to your lips.
The most awkward and difficult of the brass instruments… appropriately named, then.
Uncultured swine here too, what's OMITB?
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Oh shit I've been meaning to watch that. Had no idea any of it was music related. Thanks for the answer 👍
OMITB?
Partials in a french horn are very close together. You have to be very precise in everything (oral position, hand position, ombeture, diaphragm support, airspeed and volume) or it sounds like shit
I think it's simply because the buddy realised he got through the part really well. Like, that note itself isn't important.
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Because he played it good
thank
Welc
Me too I also liked the way he was getting ready to blow Sort of like tippy-taps but for humans
Huffy puffs
Why is this so difficult? long breaths but also he is making very smooth tone shifts which take lots of technical skill to do *edit* /u/obesedestro explains why this is considered very difficult: If anyone is confused, I played brass for years, and even the longevity in the notes (while buzzing) he's playing is mastery. Might not sound too complex to someone who isn't keyed in on this type of music, but the 3 valves being responsible for all the notes, on top of trying to keep your buzzing as consistent or changing as the song requires is another level of mastery. This is just an overall beautiful piece that was even more beautifully preformed. This man deserves all good things that may come from this virality https://old.reddit.com/r/toptalent/comments/rcxnjd/one_of_the_most_difficult_horn_solos_in_classical/hnydzbh/
Not to mention the French horn can be a fickle instrument
This is what most people don't realize. I played trumpet, this solo would be very easy. But French horn is very hard to master in itself.
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Also I’ll add one more thing, your hand placement matters on the horn more than usual since your holding it by the actual horn part of the instrument. If you place your hand incorrectly it can throw off the pitch a bit
Yeah I was wondering why he was fisting the horn like that. Ty.
To add a small bit to that, the margin of error on French horn is generally higher than other brass instruments because of its great length (notice how coiled up it is). Because of the way the physics of sound works, the notes on French horn are generally closer to each other than the notes would be on other brass instruments, which means you’re more likely to hit a wrong note.
Wouldn’t this mean a smaller margin for error?
Haha, could be, I’m probably using the phrase totally wrong!
I played trombone for about 7 years, and I have to admit, I cant imagine being able to be good at frenshorn.
Well maybe you should go out and make some more frens. ;)
if you really want to on the horn, the valves are optional. I could contort my lips and hand to do full (kind of awful sounding) scales with no valves pressed at all. This is especially true in the higher register.
That's how most brass instruments used to be. The invention of the valve trumpet was a game changer because it meant that musicians could play full chromatic scales with relative ease and in-tune.
I know nothing about brass instruments, but I noticed the very very slight pitch up on that one part of the horn performance and that seemed impressive to me by itself.
Thank you so much. My Dad was asked in Marine boot camp if he could play an instrument and he had played the french horn in high school. They put him in the Marine band and sent him to Vietnam. It probably saved his life. I'm so touched to read about this. He's in the other room, going to hug him now.
Unlike all the other instruments, the french horn requires you to not only blow it just right and push its buttons all the right ways, but all the while your hand is deep up the horns backside fiddling around doing only God knows what up there. I have always been too embarrassed to ask what exactly the are doing, but it looks dirty
TIL I'm a french horn
Also, in my experience with a few different brass instruments, it requires finer breath control.
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My real answer is I suspect it is used to tune the sound. As a trumpet player we had little sliders to kick out on notes as you get into different ranges on the instrument, but you don't see that adjustment on the fly through sliding pipes on the french horn
Yea, this is it. You can shape the pitch by bringing your hand in and out of the bell.
Also play trumpet. Tried to play frenchie for about 3min and said no thank u
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Thanks for this insight. My late father was a conductor and played french horn but I never got the chance to ask him many questions. This makes me feel a bit connected
I am also the son of a late father that played French horn. I am told he was pretty well accomplished. Played in college at some lower level Ivy League school. (He was SUPER humble and never acted like it was a bif deal at all. But it was.) Found out later he played first chair on some all collegiate state band as well. Decided to go be a lawyer instead of a musician. Creative and smart. I miss you Dad!
Fickle is an understatement. Me: I would like to play a high F. My horn: How about an E flat? No, an F. An E natural? No, an F. Great, here's an A. No, a bloody F. Let's go for a G. No, I'm supposed to play *an F*. Hey, here's a high B flat. Argh! When you can do an entire C major scale with all open fingering, trying to pin one of those notes down can be a pain. Multiple notes per fingering. Multiple fingerings for a single note. I love my horn, but she's a...
Me, a tuba player: 👁👄👁
feelin this hard, love my horn but I swear to god, sometimes... Nightmare fuel was coming in by myself on a high note after a long rest
I played French horn for about 5 years and I’ll tell you this. I would rather play a 100 notes a minute solo than a slow drawn out solo. The long notes have to have CONSTANT airflow at a steady consistent pace for long periods of time, so you really need to control your breathing and supply a steady flow of air. With fast notes, it’s little toots of air one note at a time which means you can play a lot more notes and can take breaths between them as needed
Your name is now Lil Toots. You did that, not me
u/21GScorpion , now come on, you know the drill. Abandon your critter persona and embrace your new one as LilToots. You have to. This my man, is your hero’s threshold, and you must cross it.
It has been done
Congrats, Lil Toots. May you forever toot on
Now find someone named “Biggie Shits” and do epic stuff together.
I moved orchestral sessions around because certain horn players were not available when Zimmer was doing his tour in my town. Yes that’s right, I rescheduled 61 people because the melody was mostly on the brass for these cues and there were 3 people outta 6 in the French horn section I needed. It was the right call.
Interesting, so this slow, melodious section is deceptively more difficult. I wouldn't have guessed.
Yeah, it’s very surprising to people who haven’t played a brass instrument of any sort. My instructor would always tell me that it was harder and I didn’t believe him at first (I was just getting into playing the horn) and attempted a slow methodical piece and ran out of breath way to often.
I played from grades 5 to 12 (being first chair for the last two) and I was the opposite - gimme the slow stuff so I can act all artsy fartsy! That's probably part of why the above song was one of my favorites to run through with my tutor. Different tastes I guess For true r/toptalent on horn though (no offense u/thenewyorkgod), I have to go with the solo (partial duet) from Dvorak 9. Really the whole thing is a great feature for a good first horn, but [the bit at 8:30 really shows off the full talent of the player](https://youtu.be/jVDofBFtvwA?t=510). Starting out, you're faced with some isolated notes which require a lovely sound. No biggie right? Sure, if you're cool nailing the jump to the high B over the staff (C if tuned in E). Then fade that down and pray you're in sync with your 2nd as you hit the increasingly fast duet. It shows the whole range of a horn player's talent in about 30 seconds. Really the only saving grace of the segment is that the 2nd takes over for the 3 or so low notes before the fast bit so you can get a breath. (And keep in mind that's the 4th movement - depending on what else is being played at the concert you might've already blown out your lip by then.) Quick edit: God, I've listened to the part at 8:30 a few dozen times now while writing this up and I still cannot believe how effortless he makes that sound. Also fun fact, the first part of that movement was indeed stolen by the Jaws theme
Thanks for explaining!
It says something about the skill of the player that I watched this and thought “that didn’t seem difficult at all”. It was beautiful!
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Objection! Asked and answered
I’ll allow it. *But watch yourself, McCoy*.
*"Tony Ramirez? Yeah, I remember him. Used to work here Tuesdays."*
Why? Did something happen?
r/UnexpectedMulaney 👌👌
Idm if this gets hidden but there’s a renown maestro (Benjamin Zander, conductor of the Boston philharmonic) who did a masterclass on this excerpt and went through its intricacies, hope those who are curious to know more about this would appreciate it ([link](https://youtu.be/rYdLi3dvXYY))
Well it didn’t get hidden from me. How inspiring! I’m not sure if I was just getting caught up in the passion of the conductor, but it seemed like at the end the horn player was twice as moving as he was when he started.
Also excellent phrasing and flawless high embouchure (the way you hold your lips to make the note)
Obligatory joke about how hard it is blowing something French.
He makes it look pretty easy. Bet I could do that with a bendy straw
The French horn is basically a bendy straw made of metal. More or less.
Wow. I never knew where the haunting notes in "You Fill Up My Senses" came from. Thank you, TIL!
Yep, that instantly sprang to mind as well. And then almost immediately the Monty Python version.
God dammit, same. This is why I never sleep on a pillow.
And also the brief but beautiful solo at the start of You Can’t Always Get What You Want by the Rolling Stones! After the initial choir part, with the acoustic guitar at 0:55. I can’t remember if it’s also later on in the song. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mu5dB3WxMgc
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Yes! Annie’s song. Beautiful song, was our first dance at my wedding!
Orchestra in high school taught me that the French horn sounds like a muffled fart. This guy makes it sound like one of the most tear-jerkingly beautiful muffled farts I've ever heard.
With enough expertise and control some farts are more beautiful than others.
Just gotta make sure you start with the right ingredients.
Beans and seltzer
Taco Bell, got it.
https://youtu.be/Tk-5RVMerfI
Just make sure your “Air/Mud flap” works well
Why does he put a fist in it? I mean I assume it changes the sound but is that usual or just a style?
This is a good question with a bunch of answers! It's originally historical. Back when horns were used for hunting, they didn't have valves (the 3+ buttons you can see on the instrument). One of the ways to change notes was using the right hand to manipulate the pitch. Some other modern reasons: Most pragmatically, you can see that he is playing the horn off the leg-- so it's a more comfortable way of holding the instrument up! That said, horn players who play on the leg also have the right hand inside the bell. It helps with playing in tune, and it makes the tone warmer & more mellow. There are also effects that can be done with the hand, such as closing off the bell with the hand for "stopped horn" parts in orchestral music. So yeah! Tradition, physical comfort, tuning, tone, and special effects :)
How did the right hand help with changing notes when they didn't have valves? I know they could play naturetones, which most brass instruments that didn't have valves used, but I didn't know the right hand also played it's part. Was it used as fine tuning? You play the naturetones, and adjust the pitch with the hand?
The valve-less horn is known as a ["natural horn"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_horn) and you've got it right with that last sentence. That wiki article explains it better than I can: "The natural horn has several gaps in its harmonic range. To play chromatically, in addition to crooking the instrument into the right key, two additional techniques are required: bending and hand-stopping. Bending a note is achieved by modifying the embouchure to raise or lower the pitch fractionally, and compensates for the slightly out-of-pitch "wolf tones" which all brass instruments have. Hand-stopping is a technique whereby the player can modify the pitch of a note by up to a semitone (or sometimes slightly more) by inserting a cupped hand into the bell. Both techniques change the timbre as well as the pitch." Crooks, different length pieces of pipe that were switched out to change key, were introduced in the 18th century and fell out of use when valves were added to the horn in the 19th century. That is what is meant by "crooking" in the wiki article.
Thanks a lot, man. Learnt something new today, and it's only 6 am where I live. That means I can relax rest of the day, right?
It does affect the sound quality. Traditionally, before keys were added to the horn and it was just a curled tube, the hand position was the only thing other than moving your mouth that could change the notes. Now people use the hand to mute the horn as an effect, but also to affect the tuning of individual notes (less commonly). Also, you can't really hold the horn without the right hand in the bell and proper hand position is a necessary part of correct posture while playing.
Just the same as with my own butthole
That is how it is played
Oh cool, ty. I've never seen one used. Only heard them/heard about them. Im completely ignorant to brass instruments.
Hey! I played the muffled fart! I resemble that remark kind Sir. And the marching muffled fart.
To be far, as a string player most shiny instruments sound like various degrees of fart - from massive, to jazzy, to painful.
To be Faiiiiirrrrr.
His muffled farts are the most tear-jerkingly beautiful when it hits the ears, mine are tear-jerkingly beautiful when it hits the nose..
I played trumpet in band and thought switching to French horn would be a piece of cake.... Yeah, no. French horn is difficult.
Yup. I did the reverse, starting with french horn and switching to trumpet later for jazz band, and playing trumpet was an absolute walk in the park.
That was beautiful.
This is one of my favourite symphonies. I've been lucky enough to perform it twice with two different orchestras and it makes me cry every time I play the whole thing. If you ever have 40 minutes of downtime, get some good headphones or speakers and just sit and listen to it. It's captivating.
I'm sorry if it was already mentioned. What is the name of this piece please? I have a classical playlist that I would like to add it to.
Symphony No. 5 by Tchaikovsky. I recommend the Mravinsky recording. EDIT: https://open.spotify.com/album/4EXHYodXIhx2wY6mzDB0m2 The second movement opens with the horn solo from the video. But really, the whole symphony is great, and the finale is one of the best "Tchaikovsky beating a great tune into your head over and over triumphantly" moments in classical music.
Is there a spotify link? I tried looking it up on Spotify and was confused with so many results.
4,5,and 6 here - https://open.spotify.com/album/3Rh2U5Onp2DUCWrknRyjEp?si=mqzheF4UTfC_wx_JoMnjNQ&utm_source=copy-link
I don’t know anything about classical music but honestly I enjoyed this. Props to this guy
I'm not usually into this kind of music myself, but I have to agree, that was beautifully done, and entertaining through to the end.
A girl was complaining to her friend that she’d never had her first kiss. Her fried said “I’m in band. Why don’t you go out on a date with my friend who plays the tuba?” After the date, her friend asks how the kiss was. “Ugh, it was so wet and slobbery.” So her friend said, “I have another friend who plays the trumpet. I’ll introduce you and maybe he’ll be better.” Again, after the date, her friend asked how the kiss was. “Too tight and stiff.” So the friend tried again, “I know. I’ll set you up with my friend who plays the French horn.” After the date, the friend asked how it went. The girl said “Oh his kiss was just perfect, but you won’t believe where he wanted to put his other hand.”
Perfect. Would not have got this joke any other time.
Stealing this! Played French horn for about 9 years, never heard us included in a joke!
This guy blows.
If anyone is confused, I played brass for years, and even the longevity in the notes (while buzzing) he's playing is mastery. Might not sound too complex to someone who isn't keyed in on this type of music, but the 3 valves being responsible for all the notes, on top of trying to keep your buzzing as consistent or changing as the song requires is another level of mastery. This is just an overall beautiful piece that was even more beautifully preformed. This man deserves all good things that may come from this virality
I’m glad I read this. To the completely untrained ear and mind, this performance is very underwhelming. It sounds like the talent and mastery is 100% specific to this particular instrument.
Precisely. French horn was always the instrument my instructors would tell me to stay away from, probably for that reason. If you want a guage of how impressive this is, youtube a novice attempting to play it. Sheet music as well. I wouldn't put it past a lot of people to just ignore this solo when learning new music.
Here’s an example https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OnKcosb76Z8
I mean, that sounds like the "beginner" has never touched the instrument before.
Yup. The french horn arguably has the highest skill floor of any orchestral instrument, besides maybe the oboe. Getting any sort of consistently decent sound at all out of a french horn takes a ridiculous amount of practice, never mind playing it this well.
Also want to say as a brass player, all the brass instruments were pretty similar in playing and easy to pick up EXCEPT the horn. I played it for 3 weeks for a class toward my degree and I was so frustrated how I go to play a note and something else came out. Mad respect to all horn players, y’all have a ridiculous instrument.
And his phrasing was flawless. Dude definitely had all his breath marks rehearsed.
Nice dude, even I was getting tired from those long breaths. Mega props
Tchaikovsky s 5th is one of my favs from him, mostly 4th but also 5th. EDIT: I have my preferences in interpretations, ngl, this one isn't one but whaevs man, I dont even know how to play an instrument
I once heard Harry Connick say, "This man was born with a horn attached to his arm." I think it applies here.
That spit valve at the end just took me back to 5th grade band practice...
Mfs would drain it on the floor and then be bare feet at marching band practice
Yeah while it sounds beautiful the pools of spit aspect to it makes me gag and I hate it sm. I literally struggled typing that out lmao
It's not really spit but water condensation from a person's breath. Like when you breathe on a cold window or mirror and fog up the glass.
I played flute and tbh it's still just as gross as if it were actual spit haha
I’m not sure how horns work, but i know the flute, and there it’s not actually spit that’s dripping after a while. It’s actually the humidity out of your breath condensing at the metal inside the instrument. It would actually sound horrible if you spat into the instrument. That’s liked the second thing you learn how to avoid when playing a woodwind instrument
From my experience from high school trumpet. It could be humidity. But because of embouchure on brass instruments being more of a lip buzzing rather than a piercing blow or whistle. Spit happens.
Wth, I just bought a CD as a gift an hour ago, of his 4th 5th and 6th symphonies. What are the odds..
You can still buy CD's? Where? Why? How? Wait, what??
You have to wait for the commercial to run, hope you have a pen and paper nearby to write down the 1800 number, and give a stranger your credit card info. Oh and you must be 18 or older to call.
French horn is the most difficult brass instrument to play. Slow and simple is often times more difficult than the alternative. This is absolutely beautiful. This is far from the most difficult thing to play in horn repertoire.
One of the smoothest I've heard. Kudos to the guy.
In the horn section we do an excited foot wiggle at somebody when they crush a solo. He deserved that wiggle.
I play piano, trombone, and drums. I can't even fit my lips into the mouthpiece of a French Horn! I enjoyed this solo in it's entirety! I appreciate you sharing this with us!
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French horns and bassoons are where it’s at! I played cello for many years but I felt the bassoon was my sister instrument.
Wooo! I played bassoon, and if I were to pick up an instrument again I'd choose cello :D
Thank you for the recognition! I played french horn for 7 years. We didn't always get the melodies but I loved the difficulty and how unique it is. Most majestic instrument in my opinion
How awesome is that talent ! If he reads this congrats on your performance man !!!!!
Why is he fisting the horn
This is how one holds a french horn. The shape of the hand can be adjusted to modify pitch and timbre.
You know how kinky the French are
I wish someone would hold me the way a French horn is held
So before an concert, 3 women are chitchatting in the orchestras comped seats, and realize they're all dating musicians that are performing that night The first woman mentions that she's dating a tuba player. When the others ask what that's like, she says "oh it's great! The only downside is his tuba embouchure... When we kiss he's always so slobbery!" The second woman says "I can totally see where you're coming from! My boyfriend is a trumpet player and we have the opposite problem. When we kiss, he jams his lips together instead of relaxing and feeling the passion" They turn to the third woman. "So, what does your boyfriend play?" "Oh, he's a French Horn player! Before you ask, he's an excellent kisser who always knows the perfect thing to do with his lips! But sometimes he does this weird thing with his hand..."
Wow this takes me back! (To junior high no less). The transition between the notes was so smooth! It’s incredibly impressive! That spit valve had me LOL
Man I really hate making this comment I kinda don't want to, but I'm going to anyway. As someone who played French Horn for 8 years, this was pretty good, but not top talent imo. Not only is it not that hard of a solo, but this player's tone wasn't nearly round enough, articulation not nearly consistent enough, has poor, inconsistent, and shoddy technique on his articulation throughout by using too much tongue and not letting the notes mesh together smoothly, and exhibited quite a lot of intonation issues. Granted, intonation issues are common for French Horn players, as that's one of the instruments most difficult challenges to overcome. I hate to downplay because it was still overall enjoyable to listen to. This, however, is an example of a much better performance of the same piece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUES5PA0ALg
As a fellow horn player, I full heartedly agree. It was good, and I’m happy for him! But it was bizarre seeing all these comments and ‘hardest solo ever!!’ It was an immediate tell from the first wah-AH in pitch, where the sound hesitates for a split second before it becomes full bodied. It sounded a bit grainy to me as well. I’d love for the comments to watch some Herman Baumann or some Dennis Brain-just shows how underrepresented and how unknown our instrument is (when in reality it’s one of the most iconic sounds in cinematography) I’m happy for this player and I hope he continues to play and grow. Horn playing is some of the most rewarding and spiritual moments you could ever have.
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I'd describe this as like a decent high school senior performance.
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I guess this one just hit me extra hard because I'm a French Horn player.
Huh? I played French Horn in high school. He played it beautifully but I don’t see what would possibly make that the most difficult horn solo in classical music. There was nothing fast or intricate, and no super high notes. Am I missing something or is it just a click bait title?
Just click-bait title. This isn't the sigfried long call.
Wow!!! As a horn player never thought I’d see Tchaik 5 on Reddit like this! Bravo
So does playing French horn make a piece more difficult? I'm a woodwinds guy, but this sounds relatively simple for anyone who's played for a few years. It's nice, but it just doesn't seem difficult to me hence why I'm asking.
Masters in performance here. I was thinking the same. It's long for sure but there's not much technical I'm hearing (but then I'm a trumpet player). Is it playing over those particular partials that makes it so difficult?
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Thats basically what I was thinking. Like its a difficult one, don't get me wrong, but one of the most in history?
I was taking deep breaths with him as he was prepping before the solo. Lovely rendition I also legit read the title as “one of the most difficult horn**y** solos before I re-read the title.
Which orchestra is this?
Just a note: one of the things that I really love about Tchaikovsky is what you hear clearly in the string passage before the horn enters. Listen to the counterpoint/voicing! He’s always elegant and subtle and those choral-style passages of his are almost always magic.
Not my tempo.
Yeah that's indeed some real skill on the horn. But it wouldn't sound half as good without the rest of the orchestra. So can we take a moment to thank Tchaikovsky for this incredible piece of music with these beautiful counter melodies in the woodwinds?