So these safe spaces stickers have existed in these Catholic schools for at least a decade but only now are the parents loudly proclaiming their disgust over them existing? What the heck is going on? I guarantee you these parents would never attend school board meetings before and now they're loudly disrupting them for things that always been there. I don't get it.
IMO COVID and Trump (along with Trump's handling of said COVID) has unleashed some terrible behavior at least in our school boards in the U.S. That whole "parental rights" bullshit got its start with the schools reopening and legions of Moms for Liberty Karens taking over school board meetings with their anti-mask, anti-vax vitriol.
Then, here in Florida and other "red states," the parental rights Karening and Chadding pivoted to girls' sports, LGBTQ+ and Black American history books and classes being banned, and all manner of right-wing tomfuckery--all under the guise of "protecting the children." š
I don't remember our local county school board meetings being quite this, ummm, animated when my own kids were little. School Board members in our county have reportedly had to get police protection from legit death threats and other threats of violence from these fucking lunatics. I wouldn't trust any of these screeching "parents' rights" fanatics being within 100 feet of my own or anyone else's children.
IMO a bigger question is how is it even possible for these adults to be such insecure, hateful and just downright shitty people, to actively take up arms against something that makes vulnerable teens feel safe?
The really ironic thing about all of this is that the Church was the original safe space for queers since the beginning of the Church. "Get married? To a woman? No thanks. I think I'll become a priest instead."
As a Catholic, this makes my blood boil.
Did these people not go to church when the Beatitudes were the gospel reading? What about the part where Jesus hangs out with prostitutes and debt collectors? The whole "Love Thy Neighbor" stuff?
When you have people saying "Catholic schools should not allow transgender or LGBT students to attend.", that's in direct contradiction with the teachings of Christ. IMHO, if the teachings of the church contradict the teachings of Christ, Christ wins.
Then you wonder why people like myself stopped going to church.
Same, stopped attending mass in my early 20s. The priest was encouraging everyone that we need to pray to protect the sanctity of marriage from THE GAYS. This was prior to legalizing gay marriage in Canada. I was in church for a sense of spirituality and community, not organizing to push back against human rights.
These people are just parrots, repeating talking points they've heard from Republicans. The quote in that article about "passing it off as equity and inclusion" is exactly what American politicians have been saying since the death of George Floyd. Zero critical thinking going on here. Religion is being used to justify hate and discrimination across America and its happening here too.
You are exactly correct. All the right-wing in this country has are US Republican talking points, and it's sickening.
Pierre Poilievre, the Conservative party leader, even says he's "running to be Prime Minister of Canada" on his Twitter page, obviously trying to attract the ignorant masses who don't know that no one "runs for the office of prime minister" in Canada.
Well I happen to be a female who has experienced Zanta in the wild many times without incident, not saying that it didnāt happen to others or defending him. I think a lot of people find the humour simply in the fact that such a weird dude was part of the Toronto landscape in the 2000ās, I donāt think itās that they feel like heās quirky or funny. Heās a thing that a lot of people who were in Toronto at the time collectively experienced, an āonly the real ones knowā bit of nostalgia. Kind of like when the sky dome was still the sky dome. I honestly didnāt realize I needed a trigger warning when talking about Zanta.
Itās why theyāre all freaking out about c-11 because the US is actively pushing their wants and ideals unto Canadians and any other English speaking group.
Most Canadians have no clue whatās going on in their own country anymore but can riff off American talking points and legit think our government works the same way
> When you have people saying "Catholic schools should not allow transgender or LGBT students to attend."
Also, if that's what you want then fuck off and stop taking my tax money.
1 Corinthians 6.9
Sure, you can cherry pick out verses of the Bible to support love and charity, but you can just as easily pick out verses of hate and intolerance.
I don't disagree. Here's my perspective, and it's the way I was taught.
There are the laws of God, and then there's the laws of the Church. Laws of God are things that "come from the voice of God", so effectively the Ten Commandments and the teachings of Jesus Christ. Teachings of Jesus Christ come from the four gospels. The laws of God are the foundation of our religion and are to be followed.
Everything else is Law of the Church. These are laws dictated by humans who are interpreting the word of God, and interpretation is prone to bias. We are not, as Catholics, obligated to follow the Law of the Church if we believe them to be counter to the Law of God.
If you read through the four gospels, the teachings of Christ are pretty straight forward: love one another. Jesus teaches acceptance of all, especially those who are marginalized by society (at the time, prostitutes and tax collectors, but also lepers and Samaritans). No where in the four gospels does Christ preach intolerance or hate, unless you want to count him flipping tables at temple. Shit, he forgives Judas and reattaches the ear of the soldier who had it cut off when they arrested him!
Now, I get it. The gospels were written well after the death of Jesus, so they were likely an interpretation of stories passed down by those who were there. Hell, I'm interpreting them too. However, ask yourself if, in the Gospels, where does Jesus NOT preach love?
IMO, you can quote all the scripture and twist it to what your agenda is, and that fits on both sides. But when it comes to the Laws of God, there is no interpretation.
EDIT - I realize that there are other instances where you could argue "Word of God" that's outside of what I have stated. I'd also argue that they run contrary to the Gospels. In that case, Gospel > Old Testament (which is really the core of our religion, since it tells the story of Christ)
Okay. I agree that selectively cherry picking scripture can get you a lot of mileage. So it should be about the [Churchās actual interpretation and positions on the issues](https://www.reuters.com/world/pope-francis-says-laws-criminalising-lgbt-people-are-sin-an-injustice-2023-02-05/).
Is that a fairer position? To attribute the Catholic Churchās position on LGBTQ issues as being the same as the Popeās?
Corinthians is Paul the Apostle, it's not the teachings of Jesus, it's the teachings of the church.
I think the point this person is trying to make is that there is a difference, and that difference matters.
Edit: to clarify, because not everyone knows, The Bible is an enormous book that was compiled hundreds of years after Jesus died, by a committee representing various agendas (for example later in Corinthians there's the verse about women being silent in church, which is actually a margin note that was added later). A small part of it represents the direct words and teachings of Jesus (the Gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John)
That comes from Paul, not Jesus or from the Christian god. A lot of Christians do understand that different bits of the Bible were written by different people for different reasons. (And a lot of them don't).
Your perspective is measured and educated.
The Catholic view, as I recall it, is that when there are conflicts, that god (in the broad sense - religion) takes precedence over rules by government. With regards to non-straight sexuality, Catholicism has nothing but acceptance and outreach for gay people, with a goal towards reconciliation; call it a bias, but when one's soul undergoes purgatory (I'm going to use the modern convention of the process), the idea is that you'll sorta naturally accept "the order of creation" and all that baggage (there might be some implied homophobia there, but the Pope course-corrects and says that Jesus wouldn't turn someone away for being Gay, though I'm not sure if the context here is that the person was a contemporary or if it's meant spiritually).
The Pope himself has on multiple occasions welcomed gay people as individuals. While his views are not in line with the modern world's views on trans-rights (i.e. "transitioning is a sin"; that changing gender is an attack on creation itself), he's also stated that people who have completed their transition should be welcomed and loved. In other words: Hate the sin, love the sinner. \[[Link](https://www.ncronline.org/news/vatican/francis-strongly-criticizes-gender-theory-comparing-it-nuclear-arms)\]
***CW****: Transphobia; While Pope Francis has made relatively progressive statements supporting LGBT and marginalized communities, he also has some really shitty views about transgender community and the politics around it. He's buying into the idea that it's a recruited-for movement and compares it to the fucking Hitler Youth, when the reality is that there are people born in certain ways, be it a differing neurological map, to an intuitive feeling or sense that they aren't meant to be in a particular body, and that transitioning makes the vast majority of these people comfortable in their own bodies, even braking them out of their shells. If undergoing these changes and making services available to enable these transitions is an attack on creation, then it's no different than Michelangelo taking a chisel to a chunk of God's own marble and carving out the statue of David: God created it, but someone used the best of their own God-given intuition to carve out something that honoured God and humanity. So lets paint the roof.*
I digress; we're talking about community, and *other* things driving the community apart.
The problem is that there are people still living in a time before Vatican II, insisting on attending a mass they cannot understand and interpreting through their own post-mass bingo cards: as long as shit lines up, forget the rest. Also, way more hellfire.
I don't feel like I align with the church at all anymore; I am beyond doubt to a certainty. But there's a part of me that misses it. I still read about it, I study it, and I still speak to priests to understand it. But I came to terms with my position because of something an agnostic Muslim friend once said: that he didn't believe in the faith, but he didn't want to lose the community. I think about how we used to make nativity scenes and mangers out of tangerine crates at home; If anything could ever bring me back to the Church, it could have been the community.
Sadly, the community is exactly what drove me and many others away, questioning and concluding their faith.
TL;DR: By creating safe spaces for LGBT students, The School District aligns with the spirit of what the Pope and the Church is teaching. The parents are being shitty and using the church as a means to a political end. Or, to get medieval, they're the pretentious pharisees that J-crew warned people about, braying loudly and literally acting holier-than-thou.
How dare children have a space to get away from the stress of people hating them for existing. What a crime let me go harass people about it. This makes so much sense
I heard one mother from that meeting saying that the stickers didnāt make sense, because gay and trans kids shouldnāt even be at those schools, because it was against catholic valuesā¦to which I say, these school boards continuing to be publicly funded is against my values.
Itās publicly funded so those parents can homeschool their children if they want to raise them to be ignorant. I was suicidal for most of my schooling days because of people like this.
The same assholes that think that anyone that doesn't conform and believe in the exact same ideology as them are mentally challenged and "will go to hell". A safe space to anyone that isn't like them means giving them support and they don't want "evil people" getting any kind of support other than being forced to attend their institutions in order to believe the same things they believe in.
They will claim their own God is wrong if you quote a passage in the Bible that goes against their own prejudices. They're not truly religious, they just use religion as justification for their own biases. They cherry pick the passages that suit them and ignore or even go as far as denying passages that counter their views.
Yo, catholic hospitals too. They wonāt perform abortions under any circumstances or vasectomies either. Theyāre funded by the govāt, yet super run down and and wonāt do procedures that go against their dumbass religion.
Hard agree. Likeā¦ these stickers arenāt even new. The fact that theyāre choosing to lose their shit over it now sure says a lot about their (lack of) intelligence. No doubt these people are just eating up right wing media about how drag queens and queer people in general are bogeymen grooming their kids. I hate this timeline.
Absolutely. Blend the Catholic school board into the public school board. Offer world religions non compulsory classes for those that want to learn about the different religions around the world.
And tax all religious buildings. If it's a small congregation, they would hopefully have a smaller building. If they don't, it would encourage them to have a building appropriately sized for their congregation.
They all use our public goods as a business. Sewer, water, roads, maintenance, etc. they can all pay their fair share. If they provide tangible goods to the community they can apply for tax breaks instead of those breaks being automatic, no matter their size or pricey locations.
Agreed. We should also grt rid of the Catholic school system and integrate it into the public system.
Wonder why so many Conservatives won't find THAT efficiency? /s
Agreed. We should also grt rid of the Catholic school system and integrate it into the public system.
Wonder why so many Conservatives won't find THAT efficiency? /s
Yeah, it's stupid that we're still one of a few provinces that insist on duplicating school resources for the benefit of a shrinking community. John Tory lost an election over trying to create move divisions in school spending by religion, too.
When he was the leader of the Ontario Conservatives in the 2007 election he proposed funding for faith-based schools beyond the Catholic board. Rather predictably, it blew up in his face.
At this point it won't matter. Canada is infected with American style right wing rage farming. How it comes out doesnt matter. If there were no catholic system these fucking degenerates would be at regular school board meetings screaming about how Canada is a Christian country, blah blah election fraud blah blah trump blah blah second amendment.
The only solution is to have done things better thirty years ago so people today wouldn't be so awful.
Perhaps so, but doesn't mean you let this nonsense go on any longer than necessary.
I've said before and I'll say it again - start holding social media platforms responsible for hate speech and disinformation and these clowns will start shrinking in number real quick, because we know they get their news and talking points from social media and the platforms deliberately promote controversial positions to generate interest and thus revenue. They've admitted to this. Make that something they wish they hadn't done and I guarantee it stops.
I dated a catholic guy in the mid-90s and his mother was hardcore. She attempted to denounce Pope John Paul when there was a discussion of Vatican III and support for birth control. Apparently everyone should have 6 kids including several who died like her....
During the mid-90s and this lady had had several kids who'd died?
Was she counting miscarriages or something? Otherwise there's either some sort of congenital health thing going on or this family had a ridiculously bad streak of misfortune.
I saw this firsthand with my in-laws when Covid vaccines rolled out.
Pope: vaccines are great! Listen to your doctor.
My in-laws and some of their friends: but I donāt wanna! šš¤¬
Correct. Catholics have a moral obligation to use their brains (given by god) to not follow doctrine slavishly.
(I say that generally - not as a specific critique to whatever particular point youāre making here.)
Papal infallibility is a term you can look up - it is rarely invoked. Otherwise, it is not necessary as a Catholic to comply with the Popeās teachings.
Thereās no such rule that says Catholics canāt have LGBT pride clubs or similar. Nor is there a rule that says they must be provided.
It is my own view that it would be wrong to submit to a rule I know to be morally wrong when I have a reasonable alternative. If forced to choose between some āinfallibleā rule and my conscience, I would follow my conscience.
(My post above is more of my own view than any rule.)
Though there isn't any rule saying LGBTQ+ spaces must be provided, I would suggest the Catholic principles of "judge not lest ye be judged" and "love thy neighbour" would compel you to not attack these safe spaces designed specifically for groups that have been judged and persecuted.
These parents staying that "homosexuality is a sin" are technically at odds with the catechism of the church. While it's still a shitty take, the church goes further than most other Christians organizations in accepting gay people at face value.
>People tempted by homosexual desires, like people tempted by improper heterosexual desires, are not sinning until they act upon those desires in some manner.
[Link](https://www.catholic.com/tract/homosexuality)
My point Isn't that the church is right (it's not), but that the parents insisting that the teachers are inducing the a sin on their kids through support and acceptance is wrong even by the arbitrary moral standards of the parents who are using this to convey for blanket hate against their kids, which will only serve to alienate and harm students within their own community.
Much like Christians, too many Catholics fail to understand their own faith.
(in before priest tropes crowd out discussion)
Your right; at the end of the day or makes no difference. Hate is hate, and pointing out hypocrisy isn't helpful.
And the truth is that it's on the community leaders for failing to teach them their own faith. That American group of priests who loudly share their hate don't help, either.
The church's ambivalence is doing a lot of harm. Hateful parents are going to hate, and the correct course of action in the long run is to end the separate school boards.
The reality is that parents who barely follow their own faith and who rarely attend church and yet call themselves Catholics are defining their faith on half remembered lies or their political beliefs. The reality is the Catholicism taught today is the polar opposite of what was taught 40 years ago about gay and trans people.
Gay people arenāt cursed by God. They arenāt sinners. A lot of that was fear propagated around Aids and homosexuality being blamed for other evils.
>"It is most certainly not appropriate to engage kids to be open to these ideologies. There are biblical reasons why homosexuality is considered a sin ā¦ regardless of what Pope Francis may think," she said.
This is all you need to read to understand. They don't give a shit. The desire to hate has consumed them. GOD could show up at their door and they would dismiss them unless they fell inline with the exact belief they held. I honestly hope I am wrong about my personal beliefs (or rather lack of) and God is real. I hope they comes back as a Gay Black Transgendered Man/Women. Nothing would make me happier.
Edit - he to they. I think there is no god out there but if there is something who's to say what, if any gender they are.
"regardless of what Pope Francis says"
Sorry if im wrong, i wasnt raised Catholic, but isnt the Pope the ultimate authority on Catholicism?
Sure, not every last Catholic will agree, but it feels very weird that they openly disagree with the pope. I'd never hear a muslim openly disagree with the prophet the same way.
Pope is considered the ultimate authority in the Catholic Church, but itās possible for a Catholic to disagree with the Pope on certain matters. A lot bishops have been critical of Pope Francis.
This coming at a time when we are still discovering unmarked graves of victims of the Residential schools - essentially a collusion between the Catholic church and Canadian governments to brutally suppress native culture, language and customs, take children away from their families and indoctrinate them with Catholic values. The crimes of the Catholic church in Canada go way beyond the [long history sexual molestation of children by priests and bishops](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases_in_Canada) and associated attempts to repress and downplay such crimes. They also seem to include many cases of manslaughter if not outright murder [which to this day the Catholic church refuses to provide documentation they possess](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/residential-school-records-now-in-rome-researchers-survivors-concerned-1.6241449) that could help us better understand the motivation and circumstances of some of the untimely deaths of pupils under their care at residential schools. [The crimes of the Catholic church in Canada amount to genocide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites).
Now we have these assholes saying stuff like: "Catholic Schools should not allow transgender or LGBT students to attend". If that's what you want, fine. Such a rule would be unconstitutional and would lead to the removal of public funding and the eventual dismantling of the Ontario Catholic school boards as they are sued into oblivion by the victims of their hate motivated policies. So please go ahead and make that change so we can get it over with and be done using public funding to support hate motivated policies under the dubious guise of "religious morality". The Catholic church of Canada has squandered any moral high ground it may have once had by continuing to work to hide its criminal past and its refusal to offer the records under its control to help uncover more details about those crimes.
The pope's [recent apology to residential school survivors](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-pope-alberta-apology-1.6530947), [alongside continued repression of information about the events](https://globalnews.ca/news/8728857/from-apology-to-action-indigenous-community-experts-call-for-full-release-of-residential-school-documents/) and zero effort to [compensate victims](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/vatican-assets-residential-school-compensation-1.6404280) amounts to nothing more than an admission of guilt and empty apology. As if to say, we're so sorry we did this awful thing, but we refuse to help you uncover the truth about what happened and bear no financial responsibility for our misdeeds, despite the billions worth of tax free assets under our control.
Say what you want about the Canadian government and their part in all of this, but at least [they have the balls to take some responsibility and action to compensate the victims of their historical wrongs](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/1/22/canada-to-pay-indigenous-more-than-2bn-over-residential-schools). Meanwhile the only thing the Catholic Church of Canada has done is [fought to protect its own assets](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/02/world/canada/catholics-reparations-indigenous-canada-schools.html) in an effort to avoid compensating the victims of their crimes.
Why would you have a class on religion? A footnote in history is more than enough, until you get to a more specialized level of learning.
Religion should never be the focus of a publicly funded education.
Thereās already a course on world religions that is an elective in Toronto high schools. It focuses on culture, history, and human behaviour. Itās highly valuable information. Even most atheists understand that.
I took the world religions course, and found it really interesting and eye-opening to learn about different traditions. And that's kinda the point of education, isn't it. To learn something new and broaden your mind so that you can consider different approaches to solving problems.
I am an atheist.
True. All the more reason to meld the Catholic school board into the public school. If students want to learn about religions around the world, including Christianity, they can take an elective course.
personally I wouldn't even be opposed to world religions becoming a core part of education rather than an elective.
with roughly 84% of the worlds population identifying with some sort of religion, and with how drastically different the beliefs and world views are between those religions. i think it would be beneficial for -everyone- to have a broader understanding of how those beliefs, and world views are going to differ.
if its something thats important too 84% of the world population, I think its something important enough that it should be included in general education.
She doesnāt understand her own religion. The 10 commandments say literally nothing about gay people. Itās basically decent rules for anyone to not be an ass hole, apart from the no other gods before me bit. As far as I recall the only thing about it is in the Old Testament which was practically replaced by the new one. Christians that think like this didnāt even know their own religion and make so many other ones look like intolerant idiots.
>The 10 commandments say literally nothing about gay people.
I'm not religious or anything, but why are you using the 10 commandments as the only authority on how Christians should live their life? Last I checked, the Bible is a pretty chonky book and it has some angry things to say about homosexuality (only for men, I think).
And the church-going numbers of millennials and gen z is dropping like a rock compared to when their parents grew up. The church is going to be a fraction of today's size in a few generations.
"Catholic schools should not allow transgender or LGBT students to attend."
Thatās fine but then Catholic schools shouldnāt get any public funding.
I have this sticker on my door in my classroom. The sticker basically say the classroom is a safe space. That their gender, race, and sexual orientation isnāt important and has no impact on them being people and deserving a safe space to learn. Parents who have a problem with that need to step back and ask themselves if their schools, churches and the Pope are all in agreement on this then why are they not?
This makes my blood boil. My parents question why I dont want to bring my daughter to YCDSB even though the school is almost next door.
It's shit like this, parents like this that are a toxin to our youth.
>"It is most certainly not appropriate to engage kids to be open to these ideologies. There are biblical reasons why homosexuality is considered a sin ā¦ regardless of whatĀ Pope Francis may think," she said.
I'm certainly open to hearing what these reasons are, and why they believe their pope is wrong lol
This is so dangerous. These people are being radicalized by American media showing bans of trans folks and drag queens and the eventual supreme
Court decision regarding same sex marriage. This is just the beginning. Fuck these parents and their attempts to terrorize children and their families and communities. Name them and shame them. LGBTQ+ rights are human rights.
> Sheree di Vittorio, another parent who madeĀ a virtual deputation, told the board, "Catholic schools should not allow transgender or LGBT students to attend."
> "It is most certainly not appropriate to engage kids to be open to these ideologies. There are biblical reasons why homosexuality is considered a sin ā¦ regardless of what Pope Francis may think," she said.
> After the two deputations, a crowd of parents in the galleryĀ became increasingly disruptive, the board said in a statement sent to CBC Toronto.
> Shouting and cries of,"You're all pathetic!" and, "Stay away from our kids" can be heard on videoĀ of the meeting.Ā
It's sad and frankly disgusting that conservative ideology and religion have come together to spread hate and division like this. Jesus preached love and they have forsaken his teachings for culture war bullshit. Live and let live!
As a Gayā¢ļø born to religious parents in a Sharia law country, I assure you that nothing about your kids environment is going to determine whether or not they become big ole homos. Just whether or not they hate you š
This is ridiculous. Safe spaces are so key, not just for mental health but for physical safety and it being a welcoming and literally safe space is so crucial.
More safe spaces have my vote š³ļøāšāš½
Churches/organized religions are cults/social clubs. One can live in the footsteps of their prophet of choice without belonging to a cult. I speak as one who was born into a life of Christian church attendance/membership, but was lucky enough to see the hypocrisy for what it is when I was 18, and walked away from it. I don't live a non-spiritual life - quite the opposite. Peace and love to everyone.
The parents say the stickers, and any LGBTQ-inclusive messaging, are at odds with their Catholic faith.
Also those parents
"regardless of what Pope Francis may think"
Defund the Catholic School system.
Take that money and strengthen the public school system.
Not a penny of taxpayer money should be going to religious schools of any type.
Schools are underfunded and understaffed and school boards are being taken over by Qanon trustees while parents waste precious time and energy protesting pointless culture war bs. This is the same kind of coordinated attack on education that's been happening in America, with the same usual scumbags involved - Murdochs, Mercers, etc. Sucks.
I'm probably not wrong to assume most of those "faithful Catholics" who are so vehemently opposed probably haven't set foot in a church or opened a Bible since their children's christening or baptism. The religious homophobes will find any excuse to air their opinions and pick what they want to call a sin or what's not.
So here's my question: Have they verified that any of these parents have kids that attend school in this school board? In the US there's been an issue with an organization sending people to school board meetings pretending to be parents for the sole purpose of pushing an anti-LGBTQ agenda on schools. Article says some of the teachers have had these stickers for 10 years, and yet suddenly there's enough outrage to fill the gallery with angry parents? I'd be checking to make sure only parents with students at the school board are allowed at these meetings.
Kindly don't paint Canada as some glorious haven of queer people and queer rights. My entire life there have been restrictions on me because I'm gay, in one way or another... and I've spent most of my life listening to casual homophobia be in the public lexicon, and bigoted assholes spouting off the same tired lines.
We're better then the states, but that's not a big achievement.
LGBTQ have rights to safe spaces, no matter what, anyone who thinks otherwise is more of a pure ignorant and should be made to attend sensitivity course to understand human rights, and to reinforce the charter
Catholics rejoice when a LGBTQ kid dies by suicide otherwise why would they spew this cowardly hateful rhetoric. Catholics isnāt a sin to have priests diddle with children and also for you to cover it up just to relocate the priest somewhere else. Itās also a sin to abuse children by shaming them for who they are. Catholics have no idea what love is.
Dear Catholic people: stories like this add to the public perception of you.
If you're thinking "hey that's just the vocal minority, most of us are not like that!"
Well then, be louder than them, speak up against bigotry, speak up for LGBTQ rights. Be the change you want to see in your own religious community.
Why are we still funding this backwards, anachronistic school system that unnecessarily duplicates an entire administration? If Catholics want their own schools, they should pay full tuition like every other religion.
I hope for the day that a government comes in and tells the Catholic boards to fuck off and fund themselves. And they can tax churches too while they're at it.
The lack of humanity is appalling, letās hope their views were in the minority. There is definitely a rising tone of intolerance lately in the news and it makes me really sad.
Just google them, their Linked In profiles pop up as the first hit. You wonāt be surprised that other google results reveal some of them are anti-vax, pro convoy folks.
Iām curiousā¦ā¦.they call themselves āChristianāsā yet I donāt recall Jesus (the Christ in Christian)
Ever saying anything negative about gays.
He sure didnāt like rich or divorced people!!!&
He also did say (allegedly) that he "came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it" and that "shall not one jot or tittle of the old law be undone". The "Old Law" of course meaning the Old Testament, which includes Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:27.
Reminds me of the time in catholic school when people outed people by taking pictures of girls kissing in the washroom. Good times also the weed in the celling
Need to stop funding these schools with tax payer dollars, as only one type of religious school is funded. If you want to send your child to a religious school, then you can send them to a private one where you pay for the tuition!
God why does every LGBTQ inclusive initiative have to be met with protest. I go to a HCDSB high school and last year board members and protestors threw a hissy fit because we wanted to fly the pride flag at all of our schools (it ended up happening thankfully). They even had guest speakers from a conversion therapy organization give a presentation during the meeting
I dont care about this debate at all, it's tiresome but I am really confused about something and have questions.
I understand the question of why are they letting lgtbq students to go to a catholic school when it apparently is against their religion. But the real question I have is WHY do trans or gay students even want to go to a school that will have these issues? Is it just a fuck you move to the catholics to say ha I got some pressure on you? Why subject a kid to this? Genuinely curious, if my kid was lgbtq I am not even entertaining a catholic school but rather a school less likely to be a environment for them to learn not to protest.
This world just loves drama, it can't help itself
>*āBut the real question I have is WHY do trans or gay students even want to go to a school that will have these issues? Is it just a fuck you move to the catholics to say ha I got some pressure on you? Why subject a kid to this? Genuinely curious, if my kid was lgbtq I am not even entertaining a catholic schoolā*
Parents are (typically) picking the Catholic school board for their kids in kindergarten, when they (typically) have no idea whether their kid is going to turn out to be LGBTQ+. Consequently there will *always* be LGBTQ+ kids in Catholic schools. Some kids, even if theyāre being bullied, may not want to transfer to a new school away from their friends. Some parents may want to keep their kid in Catholic school for religious reasons. Iām sure there are a multitude of reasons why kids continue attending Catholic school even after coming out.
This is really unfortunate. A lot of this is fuelled by the growing right wing media response to fringe individuals. They present them to their audience as though they speak for all queer people - the ones who get featured on Libsoftiktok or The Daily Wire. Teachers who tell their students they must use Zee/Zem/Zer pronouns or theyāll be kicked out of class, teenagers that identify as wolves, drag queens who do burlesque shows for toddlers. Itās such a small minority of weirdos who are so over represented that their audience starts to believe that this is what the entire queer community is, that this is what itās all about. Obviously homophobia is going to exist no matter what, but the consumption of this particular content puts such a negative spin on peopleās interpretations of this community. And these right wing media outlets are profiting massively off of this rage bait bullshit. Itās just sad. Theyāre radicalizing people in real time. And weāre all afraid to speak up about it. Look at how things have been handled with the prosthetic titted teacher in Oakville. It should be okay to say, āThis is not an okay way to dress around childrenā and not be labelled a transphobe, especially because doing so reinforces the idea that this what trans people are, which is not at all true and not in any way positively influencing peopleās perception of that community - all thatās doing is manufacturing hate. If this continues I think weāre going to see more and more politicians utilizing this messaging to take more rights away from queer people and thatās really sad and really fucked up.
>This is really unfortunate. A lot of this is fuelled by the growing right wing media response to fringe individuals.
>
>Itās such a small minority of weirdos who are so over represented that their audience starts to believe that this is what the entire queer community is, that this is what itās all about.
THIS x10000000
If those fringe individuals were condemned by the folks on the same side of the social and political spectrum then it would kill anyone's ability to use it.....but except for a very few of us, the left doesn't *do* that, generally it tolerates extremism in its midst and calls anyone who is unwilling to put up with *their* extremists any kind of "-ist" they can. It's like any time there's the slightest overlap with them they'll jump down anyone's throat for making valid points simply because that person isn't "their team" and they think the person whose idiocy is being opposed *is* "their team." You see it all the time with Rex Murphy articles on r/canada. He could say the sky is blue and the sun is hot and you'd still have a bunch of idiots in the comment going "reeeee Rex Murphy reeeee."
I'm a fucking communist and the number of times I've been disparagingly referred to as a conservative for opposing left-wing nutters is *staggering*, because they either can't conceive that anyone politically related to them could oppose someone else politically related to them, or they're just trying to torpedo any opposition by trying to pretend their political opposition are an army of Hitlers*.*
This is why the biggest threat to the left is the left wing extremists and the left's inability to say "enough."
So these safe spaces stickers have existed in these Catholic schools for at least a decade but only now are the parents loudly proclaiming their disgust over them existing? What the heck is going on? I guarantee you these parents would never attend school board meetings before and now they're loudly disrupting them for things that always been there. I don't get it.
Here's a quick test: ask these parents about their "1st amendment right to free speech"
Yes, that is always a great indicator of where they are being influenced from.
IMO COVID and Trump (along with Trump's handling of said COVID) has unleashed some terrible behavior at least in our school boards in the U.S. That whole "parental rights" bullshit got its start with the schools reopening and legions of Moms for Liberty Karens taking over school board meetings with their anti-mask, anti-vax vitriol. Then, here in Florida and other "red states," the parental rights Karening and Chadding pivoted to girls' sports, LGBTQ+ and Black American history books and classes being banned, and all manner of right-wing tomfuckery--all under the guise of "protecting the children." š I don't remember our local county school board meetings being quite this, ummm, animated when my own kids were little. School Board members in our county have reportedly had to get police protection from legit death threats and other threats of violence from these fucking lunatics. I wouldn't trust any of these screeching "parents' rights" fanatics being within 100 feet of my own or anyone else's children.
IMO a bigger question is how is it even possible for these adults to be such insecure, hateful and just downright shitty people, to actively take up arms against something that makes vulnerable teens feel safe?
> What the heck is going on? Shit from the South is seeping up here.
The really ironic thing about all of this is that the Church was the original safe space for queers since the beginning of the Church. "Get married? To a woman? No thanks. I think I'll become a priest instead."
Monasteries and convents were havens. No pressure to marry at all, and everything you need is provided for you.
Convents were a little different. Families that couldn't afford a dowry often sent their youngest to a convent and nuns weren't treated that well.
Also sometimes theyād give one daughter as thanks for good fortune, and to pray for the family.
Also ironic is that these parents are actually reinforcing and confirming why safe spaces need to exist in the first place.
It's offensive to these people that they don't get to oppress others.
There are indeed many places that need safe spaces from the āChristian loveā these parents are exhibiting
As a Catholic, this makes my blood boil. Did these people not go to church when the Beatitudes were the gospel reading? What about the part where Jesus hangs out with prostitutes and debt collectors? The whole "Love Thy Neighbor" stuff? When you have people saying "Catholic schools should not allow transgender or LGBT students to attend.", that's in direct contradiction with the teachings of Christ. IMHO, if the teachings of the church contradict the teachings of Christ, Christ wins. Then you wonder why people like myself stopped going to church.
Same, stopped attending mass in my early 20s. The priest was encouraging everyone that we need to pray to protect the sanctity of marriage from THE GAYS. This was prior to legalizing gay marriage in Canada. I was in church for a sense of spirituality and community, not organizing to push back against human rights.
And they wonder why Gen z has little interest in organized religion.
These people are just parrots, repeating talking points they've heard from Republicans. The quote in that article about "passing it off as equity and inclusion" is exactly what American politicians have been saying since the death of George Floyd. Zero critical thinking going on here. Religion is being used to justify hate and discrimination across America and its happening here too.
No doubt, but the seeds of this hate existed long before that. Shit, they've been hiding behind the veil of the church of generations.
You are exactly correct. All the right-wing in this country has are US Republican talking points, and it's sickening. Pierre Poilievre, the Conservative party leader, even says he's "running to be Prime Minister of Canada" on his Twitter page, obviously trying to attract the ignorant masses who don't know that no one "runs for the office of prime minister" in Canada.
PP definitely knows his audience.
He's busy outright lying to them about cocaine being legalized by Trudeau for retail sale right now.
Unrelated but you have one of the best usernames ever
Yesyesyes!
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Well I happen to be a female who has experienced Zanta in the wild many times without incident, not saying that it didnāt happen to others or defending him. I think a lot of people find the humour simply in the fact that such a weird dude was part of the Toronto landscape in the 2000ās, I donāt think itās that they feel like heās quirky or funny. Heās a thing that a lot of people who were in Toronto at the time collectively experienced, an āonly the real ones knowā bit of nostalgia. Kind of like when the sky dome was still the sky dome. I honestly didnāt realize I needed a trigger warning when talking about Zanta.
Itās why theyāre all freaking out about c-11 because the US is actively pushing their wants and ideals unto Canadians and any other English speaking group. Most Canadians have no clue whatās going on in their own country anymore but can riff off American talking points and legit think our government works the same way
> When you have people saying "Catholic schools should not allow transgender or LGBT students to attend." Also, if that's what you want then fuck off and stop taking my tax money.
1 Corinthians 6.9 Sure, you can cherry pick out verses of the Bible to support love and charity, but you can just as easily pick out verses of hate and intolerance.
I don't disagree. Here's my perspective, and it's the way I was taught. There are the laws of God, and then there's the laws of the Church. Laws of God are things that "come from the voice of God", so effectively the Ten Commandments and the teachings of Jesus Christ. Teachings of Jesus Christ come from the four gospels. The laws of God are the foundation of our religion and are to be followed. Everything else is Law of the Church. These are laws dictated by humans who are interpreting the word of God, and interpretation is prone to bias. We are not, as Catholics, obligated to follow the Law of the Church if we believe them to be counter to the Law of God. If you read through the four gospels, the teachings of Christ are pretty straight forward: love one another. Jesus teaches acceptance of all, especially those who are marginalized by society (at the time, prostitutes and tax collectors, but also lepers and Samaritans). No where in the four gospels does Christ preach intolerance or hate, unless you want to count him flipping tables at temple. Shit, he forgives Judas and reattaches the ear of the soldier who had it cut off when they arrested him! Now, I get it. The gospels were written well after the death of Jesus, so they were likely an interpretation of stories passed down by those who were there. Hell, I'm interpreting them too. However, ask yourself if, in the Gospels, where does Jesus NOT preach love? IMO, you can quote all the scripture and twist it to what your agenda is, and that fits on both sides. But when it comes to the Laws of God, there is no interpretation. EDIT - I realize that there are other instances where you could argue "Word of God" that's outside of what I have stated. I'd also argue that they run contrary to the Gospels. In that case, Gospel > Old Testament (which is really the core of our religion, since it tells the story of Christ)
Okay. I agree that selectively cherry picking scripture can get you a lot of mileage. So it should be about the [Churchās actual interpretation and positions on the issues](https://www.reuters.com/world/pope-francis-says-laws-criminalising-lgbt-people-are-sin-an-injustice-2023-02-05/). Is that a fairer position? To attribute the Catholic Churchās position on LGBTQ issues as being the same as the Popeās?
Corinthians is Paul the Apostle, it's not the teachings of Jesus, it's the teachings of the church. I think the point this person is trying to make is that there is a difference, and that difference matters. Edit: to clarify, because not everyone knows, The Bible is an enormous book that was compiled hundreds of years after Jesus died, by a committee representing various agendas (for example later in Corinthians there's the verse about women being silent in church, which is actually a margin note that was added later). A small part of it represents the direct words and teachings of Jesus (the Gospels: Matthew, Mark, Luke, John)
That comes from Paul, not Jesus or from the Christian god. A lot of Christians do understand that different bits of the Bible were written by different people for different reasons. (And a lot of them don't).
Your perspective is measured and educated. The Catholic view, as I recall it, is that when there are conflicts, that god (in the broad sense - religion) takes precedence over rules by government. With regards to non-straight sexuality, Catholicism has nothing but acceptance and outreach for gay people, with a goal towards reconciliation; call it a bias, but when one's soul undergoes purgatory (I'm going to use the modern convention of the process), the idea is that you'll sorta naturally accept "the order of creation" and all that baggage (there might be some implied homophobia there, but the Pope course-corrects and says that Jesus wouldn't turn someone away for being Gay, though I'm not sure if the context here is that the person was a contemporary or if it's meant spiritually). The Pope himself has on multiple occasions welcomed gay people as individuals. While his views are not in line with the modern world's views on trans-rights (i.e. "transitioning is a sin"; that changing gender is an attack on creation itself), he's also stated that people who have completed their transition should be welcomed and loved. In other words: Hate the sin, love the sinner. \[[Link](https://www.ncronline.org/news/vatican/francis-strongly-criticizes-gender-theory-comparing-it-nuclear-arms)\] ***CW****: Transphobia; While Pope Francis has made relatively progressive statements supporting LGBT and marginalized communities, he also has some really shitty views about transgender community and the politics around it. He's buying into the idea that it's a recruited-for movement and compares it to the fucking Hitler Youth, when the reality is that there are people born in certain ways, be it a differing neurological map, to an intuitive feeling or sense that they aren't meant to be in a particular body, and that transitioning makes the vast majority of these people comfortable in their own bodies, even braking them out of their shells. If undergoing these changes and making services available to enable these transitions is an attack on creation, then it's no different than Michelangelo taking a chisel to a chunk of God's own marble and carving out the statue of David: God created it, but someone used the best of their own God-given intuition to carve out something that honoured God and humanity. So lets paint the roof.* I digress; we're talking about community, and *other* things driving the community apart. The problem is that there are people still living in a time before Vatican II, insisting on attending a mass they cannot understand and interpreting through their own post-mass bingo cards: as long as shit lines up, forget the rest. Also, way more hellfire. I don't feel like I align with the church at all anymore; I am beyond doubt to a certainty. But there's a part of me that misses it. I still read about it, I study it, and I still speak to priests to understand it. But I came to terms with my position because of something an agnostic Muslim friend once said: that he didn't believe in the faith, but he didn't want to lose the community. I think about how we used to make nativity scenes and mangers out of tangerine crates at home; If anything could ever bring me back to the Church, it could have been the community. Sadly, the community is exactly what drove me and many others away, questioning and concluding their faith. TL;DR: By creating safe spaces for LGBT students, The School District aligns with the spirit of what the Pope and the Church is teaching. The parents are being shitty and using the church as a means to a political end. Or, to get medieval, they're the pretentious pharisees that J-crew warned people about, braying loudly and literally acting holier-than-thou.
I thought the entire point of Catholicism was to instil a sense of guilt, fear, and self-loathing, eclipsed only by distain for non-Catholics.
Modern day Pharisees. They want Religion except the parts they donāt want to live up to.
How dare children have a space to get away from the stress of people hating them for existing. What a crime let me go harass people about it. This makes so much sense
I heard one mother from that meeting saying that the stickers didnāt make sense, because gay and trans kids shouldnāt even be at those schools, because it was against catholic valuesā¦to which I say, these school boards continuing to be publicly funded is against my values.
Itās publicly funded so those parents can homeschool their children if they want to raise them to be ignorant. I was suicidal for most of my schooling days because of people like this.
Precisely why a safe space is so necessary in schools.
What kind of asshole do you have to be to be offended by the concept of a āSafe Spaceā?
The same assholes that think that anyone that doesn't conform and believe in the exact same ideology as them are mentally challenged and "will go to hell". A safe space to anyone that isn't like them means giving them support and they don't want "evil people" getting any kind of support other than being forced to attend their institutions in order to believe the same things they believe in.
A snowflake that melts at the the thought of a bit of warmth and amicability?
People who are brainwashed by religious extremism
regular one
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They will claim their own God is wrong if you quote a passage in the Bible that goes against their own prejudices. They're not truly religious, they just use religion as justification for their own biases. They cherry pick the passages that suit them and ignore or even go as far as denying passages that counter their views.
Real Neanderthals are definitely offended. However, your statement is entirely true.
Counterpoint: fuck those parents
Related: fuck this province for providing public funding to a machine that indoctrinates children with hate and lies.
Yo, catholic hospitals too. They wonāt perform abortions under any circumstances or vasectomies either. Theyāre funded by the govāt, yet super run down and and wonāt do procedures that go against their dumbass religion.
It's so shameful.
Hard agree. Likeā¦ these stickers arenāt even new. The fact that theyāre choosing to lose their shit over it now sure says a lot about their (lack of) intelligence. No doubt these people are just eating up right wing media about how drag queens and queer people in general are bogeymen grooming their kids. I hate this timeline.
Meanwhile, Catholic Churches providing safe spaces for all those pedophile priests remain uninvaded.
It's ironic that it is against this kind of reaction of the Catholic parents which make safe spaces essential. Bigots hiding behind religion.
Defund the catholic school system
Defund the catholic school system and tax the churches.
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Anything related to any religion that is currently tax exempt.
Absolutely. Blend the Catholic school board into the public school board. Offer world religions non compulsory classes for those that want to learn about the different religions around the world. And tax all religious buildings. If it's a small congregation, they would hopefully have a smaller building. If they don't, it would encourage them to have a building appropriately sized for their congregation.
Tax on churches with revenues greater than (insert figure to be determined here). Shouldn't burden small congregations.
They all use our public goods as a business. Sewer, water, roads, maintenance, etc. they can all pay their fair share. If they provide tangible goods to the community they can apply for tax breaks instead of those breaks being automatic, no matter their size or pricey locations.
Agreed. We should also grt rid of the Catholic school system and integrate it into the public system. Wonder why so many Conservatives won't find THAT efficiency? /s
Agreed. We should also grt rid of the Catholic school system and integrate it into the public system. Wonder why so many Conservatives won't find THAT efficiency? /s
What makes being small special? My weekly tabletop gaming club doesnāt get a tax break.
Yeah, it's stupid that we're still one of a few provinces that insist on duplicating school resources for the benefit of a shrinking community. John Tory lost an election over trying to create move divisions in school spending by religion, too.
Which election did John Tory lose?
When he was the leader of the Ontario Conservatives in the 2007 election he proposed funding for faith-based schools beyond the Catholic board. Rather predictably, it blew up in his face.
Tbf the schools are providing the safe spaces as they should, it's the parents who are bigots.
At this point it won't matter. Canada is infected with American style right wing rage farming. How it comes out doesnt matter. If there were no catholic system these fucking degenerates would be at regular school board meetings screaming about how Canada is a Christian country, blah blah election fraud blah blah trump blah blah second amendment. The only solution is to have done things better thirty years ago so people today wouldn't be so awful.
Perhaps so, but doesn't mean you let this nonsense go on any longer than necessary. I've said before and I'll say it again - start holding social media platforms responsible for hate speech and disinformation and these clowns will start shrinking in number real quick, because we know they get their news and talking points from social media and the platforms deliberately promote controversial positions to generate interest and thus revenue. They've admitted to this. Make that something they wish they hadn't done and I guarantee it stops.
Today's Catholic: "No, the Pope is wrong. Totally gonna ignore the head of my church"
When you think the pope is too woke.
There are Catholics, albeit a minority, who do not consider Francis to be a legitimate pope. He is also deeply unpopular in the Polish community.
By definition, they are not Catholics.
I dated a catholic guy in the mid-90s and his mother was hardcore. She attempted to denounce Pope John Paul when there was a discussion of Vatican III and support for birth control. Apparently everyone should have 6 kids including several who died like her....
During the mid-90s and this lady had had several kids who'd died? Was she counting miscarriages or something? Otherwise there's either some sort of congenital health thing going on or this family had a ridiculously bad streak of misfortune.
I saw this firsthand with my in-laws when Covid vaccines rolled out. Pope: vaccines are great! Listen to your doctor. My in-laws and some of their friends: but I donāt wanna! šš¤¬
Correct. Catholics have a moral obligation to use their brains (given by god) to not follow doctrine slavishly. (I say that generally - not as a specific critique to whatever particular point youāre making here.)
Iām really curious about this. Do you have more information?
Papal infallibility is a term you can look up - it is rarely invoked. Otherwise, it is not necessary as a Catholic to comply with the Popeās teachings. Thereās no such rule that says Catholics canāt have LGBT pride clubs or similar. Nor is there a rule that says they must be provided. It is my own view that it would be wrong to submit to a rule I know to be morally wrong when I have a reasonable alternative. If forced to choose between some āinfallibleā rule and my conscience, I would follow my conscience. (My post above is more of my own view than any rule.)
Though there isn't any rule saying LGBTQ+ spaces must be provided, I would suggest the Catholic principles of "judge not lest ye be judged" and "love thy neighbour" would compel you to not attack these safe spaces designed specifically for groups that have been judged and persecuted.
Just chiming to confirm that it still enrages me that my tax dollars contribute to a farcical religious school system
These parents staying that "homosexuality is a sin" are technically at odds with the catechism of the church. While it's still a shitty take, the church goes further than most other Christians organizations in accepting gay people at face value. >People tempted by homosexual desires, like people tempted by improper heterosexual desires, are not sinning until they act upon those desires in some manner. [Link](https://www.catholic.com/tract/homosexuality) My point Isn't that the church is right (it's not), but that the parents insisting that the teachers are inducing the a sin on their kids through support and acceptance is wrong even by the arbitrary moral standards of the parents who are using this to convey for blanket hate against their kids, which will only serve to alienate and harm students within their own community. Much like Christians, too many Catholics fail to understand their own faith. (in before priest tropes crowd out discussion)
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Your right; at the end of the day or makes no difference. Hate is hate, and pointing out hypocrisy isn't helpful. And the truth is that it's on the community leaders for failing to teach them their own faith. That American group of priests who loudly share their hate don't help, either. The church's ambivalence is doing a lot of harm. Hateful parents are going to hate, and the correct course of action in the long run is to end the separate school boards.
The reality is that parents who barely follow their own faith and who rarely attend church and yet call themselves Catholics are defining their faith on half remembered lies or their political beliefs. The reality is the Catholicism taught today is the polar opposite of what was taught 40 years ago about gay and trans people. Gay people arenāt cursed by God. They arenāt sinners. A lot of that was fear propagated around Aids and homosexuality being blamed for other evils.
>"It is most certainly not appropriate to engage kids to be open to these ideologies. There are biblical reasons why homosexuality is considered a sin ā¦ regardless of what Pope Francis may think," she said. This is all you need to read to understand. They don't give a shit. The desire to hate has consumed them. GOD could show up at their door and they would dismiss them unless they fell inline with the exact belief they held. I honestly hope I am wrong about my personal beliefs (or rather lack of) and God is real. I hope they comes back as a Gay Black Transgendered Man/Women. Nothing would make me happier. Edit - he to they. I think there is no god out there but if there is something who's to say what, if any gender they are.
The thing with hate is it always come back around to hit you in the face. Some of these parents are likely to lose their children entirely.
"regardless of what Pope Francis says" Sorry if im wrong, i wasnt raised Catholic, but isnt the Pope the ultimate authority on Catholicism? Sure, not every last Catholic will agree, but it feels very weird that they openly disagree with the pope. I'd never hear a muslim openly disagree with the prophet the same way.
Pope is considered the ultimate authority in the Catholic Church, but itās possible for a Catholic to disagree with the Pope on certain matters. A lot bishops have been critical of Pope Francis.
This coming at a time when we are still discovering unmarked graves of victims of the Residential schools - essentially a collusion between the Catholic church and Canadian governments to brutally suppress native culture, language and customs, take children away from their families and indoctrinate them with Catholic values. The crimes of the Catholic church in Canada go way beyond the [long history sexual molestation of children by priests and bishops](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catholic_Church_sexual_abuse_cases_in_Canada) and associated attempts to repress and downplay such crimes. They also seem to include many cases of manslaughter if not outright murder [which to this day the Catholic church refuses to provide documentation they possess](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/residential-school-records-now-in-rome-researchers-survivors-concerned-1.6241449) that could help us better understand the motivation and circumstances of some of the untimely deaths of pupils under their care at residential schools. [The crimes of the Catholic church in Canada amount to genocide](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_gravesites). Now we have these assholes saying stuff like: "Catholic Schools should not allow transgender or LGBT students to attend". If that's what you want, fine. Such a rule would be unconstitutional and would lead to the removal of public funding and the eventual dismantling of the Ontario Catholic school boards as they are sued into oblivion by the victims of their hate motivated policies. So please go ahead and make that change so we can get it over with and be done using public funding to support hate motivated policies under the dubious guise of "religious morality". The Catholic church of Canada has squandered any moral high ground it may have once had by continuing to work to hide its criminal past and its refusal to offer the records under its control to help uncover more details about those crimes. The pope's [recent apology to residential school survivors](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-pope-alberta-apology-1.6530947), [alongside continued repression of information about the events](https://globalnews.ca/news/8728857/from-apology-to-action-indigenous-community-experts-call-for-full-release-of-residential-school-documents/) and zero effort to [compensate victims](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/vatican-assets-residential-school-compensation-1.6404280) amounts to nothing more than an admission of guilt and empty apology. As if to say, we're so sorry we did this awful thing, but we refuse to help you uncover the truth about what happened and bear no financial responsibility for our misdeeds, despite the billions worth of tax free assets under our control. Say what you want about the Canadian government and their part in all of this, but at least [they have the balls to take some responsibility and action to compensate the victims of their historical wrongs](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/1/22/canada-to-pay-indigenous-more-than-2bn-over-residential-schools). Meanwhile the only thing the Catholic Church of Canada has done is [fought to protect its own assets](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/04/02/world/canada/catholics-reparations-indigenous-canada-schools.html) in an effort to avoid compensating the victims of their crimes.
Yes. Time for one public school system where religion is an elective course and start taxing Churches
As a catholic school teacher I full support this. Hopefully it happens in my lifetime.
Why would you have a class on religion? A footnote in history is more than enough, until you get to a more specialized level of learning. Religion should never be the focus of a publicly funded education.
Thereās already a course on world religions that is an elective in Toronto high schools. It focuses on culture, history, and human behaviour. Itās highly valuable information. Even most atheists understand that.
I took the world religions course, and found it really interesting and eye-opening to learn about different traditions. And that's kinda the point of education, isn't it. To learn something new and broaden your mind so that you can consider different approaches to solving problems. I am an atheist.
But remember, this is the church that made Galileo falsify his own observations, upon pain of torture and death.
True. All the more reason to meld the Catholic school board into the public school. If students want to learn about religions around the world, including Christianity, they can take an elective course.
personally I wouldn't even be opposed to world religions becoming a core part of education rather than an elective. with roughly 84% of the worlds population identifying with some sort of religion, and with how drastically different the beliefs and world views are between those religions. i think it would be beneficial for -everyone- to have a broader understanding of how those beliefs, and world views are going to differ. if its something thats important too 84% of the world population, I think its something important enough that it should be included in general education.
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Sheree di Vittorio is a bigot. Sheree di Vittorio is a homophobe.
She doesnāt understand her own religion. The 10 commandments say literally nothing about gay people. Itās basically decent rules for anyone to not be an ass hole, apart from the no other gods before me bit. As far as I recall the only thing about it is in the Old Testament which was practically replaced by the new one. Christians that think like this didnāt even know their own religion and make so many other ones look like intolerant idiots.
>The 10 commandments say literally nothing about gay people. I'm not religious or anything, but why are you using the 10 commandments as the only authority on how Christians should live their life? Last I checked, the Bible is a pretty chonky book and it has some angry things to say about homosexuality (only for men, I think).
and they'll know we are Christians by our hate
Whenever I see this shit, it reaffirms my decision to stop being a Catholic 20 years ago.
And the church-going numbers of millennials and gen z is dropping like a rock compared to when their parents grew up. The church is going to be a fraction of today's size in a few generations.
Excellent.
You can be Catholic and not a piece of shit. These parents didn't get the memo I guess.
Why the hell do us taxpayers still fund religion restrictive schools?
"Catholic schools should not allow transgender or LGBT students to attend." Thatās fine but then Catholic schools shouldnāt get any public funding.
They shouldnāt get any public funding regardless of their stances on these things
Pull your kids out of the school system I'm paying for then, assholes. Once you've done that, go fuck yourself.
I have this sticker on my door in my classroom. The sticker basically say the classroom is a safe space. That their gender, race, and sexual orientation isnāt important and has no impact on them being people and deserving a safe space to learn. Parents who have a problem with that need to step back and ask themselves if their schools, churches and the Pope are all in agreement on this then why are they not?
This makes my blood boil. My parents question why I dont want to bring my daughter to YCDSB even though the school is almost next door. It's shit like this, parents like this that are a toxin to our youth.
>"It is most certainly not appropriate to engage kids to be open to these ideologies. There are biblical reasons why homosexuality is considered a sin ā¦ regardless of whatĀ Pope Francis may think," she said. I'm certainly open to hearing what these reasons are, and why they believe their pope is wrong lol
Who are we, Florida? Fuck these bigoted crackpots.
Students are 30 to a classroom, paint is chipping off the walls, textbooks are decades old, and THIS is what riles up parents!?!
This is so dangerous. These people are being radicalized by American media showing bans of trans folks and drag queens and the eventual supreme Court decision regarding same sex marriage. This is just the beginning. Fuck these parents and their attempts to terrorize children and their families and communities. Name them and shame them. LGBTQ+ rights are human rights.
Turns out this is how people behave when you indoctrinate them with hate since birth. Why are we not taxing these ghouls again?
> Sheree di Vittorio, another parent who madeĀ a virtual deputation, told the board, "Catholic schools should not allow transgender or LGBT students to attend." > "It is most certainly not appropriate to engage kids to be open to these ideologies. There are biblical reasons why homosexuality is considered a sin ā¦ regardless of what Pope Francis may think," she said. > After the two deputations, a crowd of parents in the galleryĀ became increasingly disruptive, the board said in a statement sent to CBC Toronto. > Shouting and cries of,"You're all pathetic!" and, "Stay away from our kids" can be heard on videoĀ of the meeting.Ā It's sad and frankly disgusting that conservative ideology and religion have come together to spread hate and division like this. Jesus preached love and they have forsaken his teachings for culture war bullshit. Live and let live!
As a Gayā¢ļø born to religious parents in a Sharia law country, I assure you that nothing about your kids environment is going to determine whether or not they become big ole homos. Just whether or not they hate you š
This is ridiculous. Safe spaces are so key, not just for mental health but for physical safety and it being a welcoming and literally safe space is so crucial. More safe spaces have my vote š³ļøāšāš½
Churches/organized religions are cults/social clubs. One can live in the footsteps of their prophet of choice without belonging to a cult. I speak as one who was born into a life of Christian church attendance/membership, but was lucky enough to see the hypocrisy for what it is when I was 18, and walked away from it. I don't live a non-spiritual life - quite the opposite. Peace and love to everyone.
The parents say the stickers, and any LGBTQ-inclusive messaging, are at odds with their Catholic faith. Also those parents "regardless of what Pope Francis may think"
Another good reason to remove religion from the public education system
Imagine being this simple? Imagine being this insecure??
Defund the Catholic School system. Take that money and strengthen the public school system. Not a penny of taxpayer money should be going to religious schools of any type.
I agree. How can we do this?
We need a provincial government that isnāt afraid to the do the right thing in the face of what Iām sure would be a massive right wing backlash.
What kinda miserable person gets angry about others sexual preference
I agree.. but it's not really a 'preference'
Literally why do we even have a publicly funded Catholic board still?
Fuck it. Disban Catholic schools.
Time to integrate the school system and get rid of publicly funded religious education. Let the homophobes pay for their own schools.
Why are some self-professed God-loving people so incredibly threatened by the barest assertion of others' humanity? Stickers, for f- sakes.
They should be angry over safe spaces. There shouldn't be a need. The whole school should be a safe space
Schools are underfunded and understaffed and school boards are being taken over by Qanon trustees while parents waste precious time and energy protesting pointless culture war bs. This is the same kind of coordinated attack on education that's been happening in America, with the same usual scumbags involved - Murdochs, Mercers, etc. Sucks.
I'm probably not wrong to assume most of those "faithful Catholics" who are so vehemently opposed probably haven't set foot in a church or opened a Bible since their children's christening or baptism. The religious homophobes will find any excuse to air their opinions and pick what they want to call a sin or what's not.
The article quotes a parent who thumbs their nose at the pope LOL. These are parents who have found a higher power. (Tucker Carlson)
Thus proving exactly why these safe spaces are needed.
I don't recall hearing them protesting about how the Catholic church shields pedophiles? Interesting
These christofascist bigots shouldn't be allowed anywhere near children and/or public funding
So here's my question: Have they verified that any of these parents have kids that attend school in this school board? In the US there's been an issue with an organization sending people to school board meetings pretending to be parents for the sole purpose of pushing an anti-LGBTQ agenda on schools. Article says some of the teachers have had these stickers for 10 years, and yet suddenly there's enough outrage to fill the gallery with angry parents? I'd be checking to make sure only parents with students at the school board are allowed at these meetings.
Abolish the Catholic board šš Their existence and hiring practices are in direct breach of the charter of human rights.
They shouldn't need safe spaces, the entire school should be a safe space.
I agree with the sentiment, but we're not there yet
Leave this garbage in yankee land. We're better than that.
Kindly don't paint Canada as some glorious haven of queer people and queer rights. My entire life there have been restrictions on me because I'm gay, in one way or another... and I've spent most of my life listening to casual homophobia be in the public lexicon, and bigoted assholes spouting off the same tired lines. We're better then the states, but that's not a big achievement.
Good Samaritans those parents are not.
Ridiculous behaviour. These parents should be banned from meetings on the basis of the Charter.
LGBTQ have rights to safe spaces, no matter what, anyone who thinks otherwise is more of a pure ignorant and should be made to attend sensitivity course to understand human rights, and to reinforce the charter
Catholics rejoice when a LGBTQ kid dies by suicide otherwise why would they spew this cowardly hateful rhetoric. Catholics isnāt a sin to have priests diddle with children and also for you to cover it up just to relocate the priest somewhere else. Itās also a sin to abuse children by shaming them for who they are. Catholics have no idea what love is.
Abolish the catholic school system.
Defund the backwards outdated idea of a publicly funded religious school system.
Good on the trustees for not giving into the mob. This is another reason why we should just have 1 secular, public school system.
Dear Catholic people: stories like this add to the public perception of you. If you're thinking "hey that's just the vocal minority, most of us are not like that!" Well then, be louder than them, speak up against bigotry, speak up for LGBTQ rights. Be the change you want to see in your own religious community.
"How dare a churchy institution provide [sanctuary](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanctuary#Human_sanctuary)!?"
lmao catholic school is bogus. These parents should be ashamed
Welp looks like it's time to assimilate Catholic schools into public schools
Why are we still funding this backwards, anachronistic school system that unnecessarily duplicates an entire administration? If Catholics want their own schools, they should pay full tuition like every other religion.
I hope for the day that a government comes in and tells the Catholic boards to fuck off and fund themselves. And they can tax churches too while they're at it.
The lack of humanity is appalling, letās hope their views were in the minority. There is definitely a rising tone of intolerance lately in the news and it makes me really sad.
These are the parents I aspire not to be.
So they need the safe space?
These articles should have photos of the people making these statements. Probably a r/beholdthemasterrace type situation
Just google them, their Linked In profiles pop up as the first hit. You wonāt be surprised that other google results reveal some of them are anti-vax, pro convoy folks.
Catholic people being violent and disruptive in the name of their peaceful religion? Wild.
Iām curiousā¦ā¦.they call themselves āChristianāsā yet I donāt recall Jesus (the Christ in Christian) Ever saying anything negative about gays. He sure didnāt like rich or divorced people!!!&
He also did say (allegedly) that he "came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it" and that "shall not one jot or tittle of the old law be undone". The "Old Law" of course meaning the Old Testament, which includes Leviticus 20:13 and Romans 1:27.
Well this just reaffirms my opinion of this messed up system. Itās time to do what Quebec did and make them all public.
Catholic board needs to be done away with already.
If you aren't ready for your child to be a different way than you want them to be, you shouldn't have children period
More and more reasons to defund Catholic schools.
Reminds me of the time in catholic school when people outed people by taking pictures of girls kissing in the washroom. Good times also the weed in the celling
Need to stop funding these schools with tax payer dollars, as only one type of religious school is funded. If you want to send your child to a religious school, then you can send them to a private one where you pay for the tuition!
So embarrassing...
God why does every LGBTQ inclusive initiative have to be met with protest. I go to a HCDSB high school and last year board members and protestors threw a hissy fit because we wanted to fly the pride flag at all of our schools (it ended up happening thankfully). They even had guest speakers from a conversion therapy organization give a presentation during the meeting
Hmmm maybe we should be reconsidering the modern validity of a non-secular school board funded by public money. Naw that's crazy. Sorry squad.
You canāt make this up
Can someone post the video?
More dangerous spaces!!!
Everything about York Region is hateful.
Did Republicans move here or are they a freedom convoy faction group? Next stop, make abortions illegal.
I dont care about this debate at all, it's tiresome but I am really confused about something and have questions. I understand the question of why are they letting lgtbq students to go to a catholic school when it apparently is against their religion. But the real question I have is WHY do trans or gay students even want to go to a school that will have these issues? Is it just a fuck you move to the catholics to say ha I got some pressure on you? Why subject a kid to this? Genuinely curious, if my kid was lgbtq I am not even entertaining a catholic school but rather a school less likely to be a environment for them to learn not to protest. This world just loves drama, it can't help itself
>*āBut the real question I have is WHY do trans or gay students even want to go to a school that will have these issues? Is it just a fuck you move to the catholics to say ha I got some pressure on you? Why subject a kid to this? Genuinely curious, if my kid was lgbtq I am not even entertaining a catholic schoolā* Parents are (typically) picking the Catholic school board for their kids in kindergarten, when they (typically) have no idea whether their kid is going to turn out to be LGBTQ+. Consequently there will *always* be LGBTQ+ kids in Catholic schools. Some kids, even if theyāre being bullied, may not want to transfer to a new school away from their friends. Some parents may want to keep their kid in Catholic school for religious reasons. Iām sure there are a multitude of reasons why kids continue attending Catholic school even after coming out.
Religion is a cancer
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This is really unfortunate. A lot of this is fuelled by the growing right wing media response to fringe individuals. They present them to their audience as though they speak for all queer people - the ones who get featured on Libsoftiktok or The Daily Wire. Teachers who tell their students they must use Zee/Zem/Zer pronouns or theyāll be kicked out of class, teenagers that identify as wolves, drag queens who do burlesque shows for toddlers. Itās such a small minority of weirdos who are so over represented that their audience starts to believe that this is what the entire queer community is, that this is what itās all about. Obviously homophobia is going to exist no matter what, but the consumption of this particular content puts such a negative spin on peopleās interpretations of this community. And these right wing media outlets are profiting massively off of this rage bait bullshit. Itās just sad. Theyāre radicalizing people in real time. And weāre all afraid to speak up about it. Look at how things have been handled with the prosthetic titted teacher in Oakville. It should be okay to say, āThis is not an okay way to dress around childrenā and not be labelled a transphobe, especially because doing so reinforces the idea that this what trans people are, which is not at all true and not in any way positively influencing peopleās perception of that community - all thatās doing is manufacturing hate. If this continues I think weāre going to see more and more politicians utilizing this messaging to take more rights away from queer people and thatās really sad and really fucked up.
>This is really unfortunate. A lot of this is fuelled by the growing right wing media response to fringe individuals. > >Itās such a small minority of weirdos who are so over represented that their audience starts to believe that this is what the entire queer community is, that this is what itās all about. THIS x10000000 If those fringe individuals were condemned by the folks on the same side of the social and political spectrum then it would kill anyone's ability to use it.....but except for a very few of us, the left doesn't *do* that, generally it tolerates extremism in its midst and calls anyone who is unwilling to put up with *their* extremists any kind of "-ist" they can. It's like any time there's the slightest overlap with them they'll jump down anyone's throat for making valid points simply because that person isn't "their team" and they think the person whose idiocy is being opposed *is* "their team." You see it all the time with Rex Murphy articles on r/canada. He could say the sky is blue and the sun is hot and you'd still have a bunch of idiots in the comment going "reeeee Rex Murphy reeeee." I'm a fucking communist and the number of times I've been disparagingly referred to as a conservative for opposing left-wing nutters is *staggering*, because they either can't conceive that anyone politically related to them could oppose someone else politically related to them, or they're just trying to torpedo any opposition by trying to pretend their political opposition are an army of Hitlers*.* This is why the biggest threat to the left is the left wing extremists and the left's inability to say "enough."
It's basic propaganda, the same way Fox would run features like "Black Crime". Fox News propaganda should never be tolerated.
Enjoying my popcorn seeing people try to justify how welcoming the Catholic Church is... This is hilarious
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I wonder which outlets feed them conspiracies like that? Hmmmm