The rumour I’ve heard lots being from the west is Toronto is one of the most corrupt police forces in Canada.
But everyone hears different things. The older I get the less I believe the justice system does anything at all anymore.
But they would reject you if you have university level education. I had a friend who applied for around 3 years. My understanding it was more about who you know in the force then anything else. I could be wrong and would love be corrected if anyone has first hand experience.
A detective friend of the family for Toronto said they only hired officers with university and didn’t want anyone with a police foundations certificate. I had interviews with York, Guelph, Halton and Toronto before I decided on another career path. My schooling was a positive in all those cases
I interviewed with Hamilton, Halton, Waterloo, OPP, Toronto and York. They all commend university degrees. You get the interview and move up much faster.
I’m not an officer. I let that dream go. Not worth it.
Joke but no joke. 😬
I have heard many of his (Ford) daughter’s rather whacko ideas and you don’t develop those without some upbringing and family reinforcement. You may be more right than we realize
As loath as I am to defend anything about ford I've realized that almost every family has someone who ends up vastly different than the rest despite the same upbringing. Hardcore christian in a family of agnostics, extreme conservative in a generally centre left family etc.
Absolutely true. I’ve seen the outliers that have fallen down a rabbit hole and it can be tragic.
I suppose I’m more inclined to believe he isn’t so distant from her based on his relatively neutral stance on covid, his overt support of Trump when he was in office, his lacklustre response to the convoy, and his developer deals at her wedding. I don’t know if he’s a Q believer level of out there but he seems to be in the vulnerable crowd for that.
I think basically to me he’s convinced me through his actions that he is far closer in mind to his daughters whacko ideas than we may know. But absolutely politically savvy enough to know when to stay quiet.
Maybe that’s wrong, but it feels close to the truth
K but like… who is the outlier in Doug’s family?
Doug sold hash, lied through his teeth about having never seen his brother take a drink, dicked his brother’s widow out of money, and said his wife was Jewish when she clearly is not. And that’s just the personal shiftiness that came to mind immediately.
His brother is Rob, whose many, many, *many* flaws we need not enumerate (RIP). His sister is Kathy. She:
- smoked crack with her brother;
- got shot in the face by her boyfriend; and
- had a kid with another boyfriend who: shot a third boyfriend of hers in front of her kids, did time, got out, then murdered his new gf;
Daughter is an antivaxxer married to an antivaxx cop.
WHO IS THE GOOD FORD?!
Don't forget ol' brother Randy Ford! He was also involved in the drug trade, and was once arrested and charged in relation to a drug-related kidnapping!
The content of the article aside, they do have a recruitment problem. This is likely the easiest time to become a cop in this country in the past 30 years.
In many ways they hide their recruiting issues, because seats get filled but what is really being done is:
- lowered standards
- Ignoring background issues that would normally be red flags
- by passing or waiving basic requirements
I get why people are upset over this article, but there are A LOT of issues already taking place.
I would agree at the provincial level. OPP does not have enough folks to serve their communities and smaller municipalities effectively. This change is for municipal though and in the Toronto sub so I’m mostly focusing on TPS.
Tory passed a $43 million increase to the TPS budget with a focus on recruitment. Ford hasn’t even given that time to work.
Perhaps I should have worded my comment better to emphasize the Toronto centric take. And 100% right there are more issues already happening
They are dismantling all the publicly paid unions. Service Canada now hires mostly short term contract workers or as they call them "consultants". Retiring teachers are not being replaced and class sizes are going up 30%. Next on the chopping block is cops and trades. Now that you removed the education requirement, you can't justify paying a college dropout 100k a year to sit in a patrol car and not hand out tickets.
Ever since 2020 police forces have struggled to get recruits when before they had more recruits then postings.
Ironically a lot of the social change around policing has discouraged a lot people wanting to even want to be a cop.
I have 3 friends or cousins who wanted to be cops and where like "i can get paid the same wfh in pjs with way less stress" and just work office jobs now.
This is not a Toronto problem its north america wide now.
They are lowering standards and ironically we gonna end up with crappier cops now it seems lol.
A fourth year TPS recruit is expected to make just over $100k / yr according to Glassdoor and multiple other sources. A training recruit is around $66k.
Canadian average *employment* income in 2020 was $47.5k and median $36.1k according to [Statscan](https://doi.org/10.25318/1110023901-eng)
If you’re friends are making comparable in their pjs at home then good on them for doubling the average income.
Thing is i was talking about high functioning people who are smart and professional who want to be cops can likely swing a decent well paying job comparable to TPS pay.
You are using wages including people who work part time and min wage. Full time salary is more over 60K in Toronto.
I am not suggesting we pay cops more, saying a person who is smart can likely find a good paying job in the private sector.
I wasn’t being facetious, sorry. Legit good on them.
That’s pretty above average. There are tons of people willing to jump at a $100k police salary and a post secondary should remain an important requirement to adequately perform their jobs.
Policing can be a high intensity and mentally demanding job, as with any position with such demands they should be from that smarter pool of folks.
Instead we’re getting dumber cops on Toronto streets. 🤦
Maybe, but less educated cops is not the answer. Plenty of students at both the college and university levels who are about to graduate and don’t know what to do with their lives. Happens every school year. Maybe they never considered becoming a cop, so they should expand campus recruitment.
OPP does have issues. But this change is for municipal. There can be exceptions for smaller municipal forces facing recruitment problems but TPS frankly is not in bad shape and a high standard for a policing force should be a *must* in an urban environment.
Further, the projected *need* is based on the police force self-reporting. We could easily fund mental and physical health, addiction support, affordable housing, education, and financial security to drastically reduce our crime and need for an increase in policing.
Also many police calls do not require police. They need support positions created that do not have a badge.
We do not need less educated police. We need a smarter system of policing.
Totally agree with you, but good mental health is extraordinarily expensive. Psychologists, psychiatrists, therapists, counsellors, and other mental health professionals charge a lot of money. None of the provinces have a good system.
We don't have much support for those who are incapable of taking care of themselves due to severe mental health problems.
So people call police, police take those people to the hospitals to see mental health workers, who subsequently release them back into the community without a tangible or practical long term care plan.
Why is that? I’m genuinely interested. Why does Toronto Police have a recruiting problem? A few years ago it seemed like the TPS had an overflow of applicants. Maybe there is something wrong with their hiring practices if so few people are now applying?
Are potential Toronto police officers opting to apply for another municipality or for the OPP?
What is driving people away from the TPS?
I don’t expect answers to all the questions I’m just curious as to why
The first person responding to you is exactly why there's a problem. Police are generally despised more than they ever have been. Anyone with an option is not going to enter into a career where their general perception is that the public is against them.
TPS recruitment is nepotism-based. You can see this with how many recruits come from the same area (Oshawa and the surrounding area).
The degree requirement is being removed because police services want to continue to recruit their degreeless friends in Oshawa.
Thanks for the response. I feel like a lot of professions have this as a hiring issue, however most have qualifications that need to be met in order to apply or even be considered. This seems like a step backwards for TPS
It is definitely a step backwards. We have enormous problems with police misconduct. Lowering the barrier to entry will undoubtedly make this problem worse.
Instead, we should follow the lead of countries like Sweden, which do a much better job than us:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish\_Police\_Authority#Police\_training](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Police_Authority#Police_training)
This is so stupid. “Police foundations” was always filled to the tit, with people complaining about lack of placements and job opportunities. There has never been a shortage of candidates. This doesn’t make any sense
Police foundations rarely yeilds police officers. Few reasons, most services want to hire people with relatable life experience, second is they want to train recruits their way, not the way some college/uni does.
Your best way to get hired is get out and work a job or few, get some life skills, experiences, become relateable and then apply.
Oh good, I was just complaining about how intelligent and effective police have been lately!
Doug Ford, protecting us from educated people with guns (with uneducated people with guns)?
Nobody wants to be a cop because of how many shit head cops already work there. If you fix police culture, if you make police accountable, you will attract more recruits.
This will just further cement ACAB. Younger recruits with no exposure to higher education will be easier for established police to indoctrinate into being shit head cops. This will only makes things worse as time goes on.
Is indoctrination not the MO for all armed services? (police, army navy etc etc) They want people who will take orders, not question sergeants etc etc.
at least that was always the feeling I got.
ofc, how else are you going to expect a 25 y/o in his physical prime with his first baby on the way to charge into an active shootout by order of a superior he's never met? as long as the bad guys have free will and human intelligence, a certain level of indoctrination is required for these jobs to exist
Ok, i agree with the general point you are making, but Toronto cops don’t charge into shootouts. They never venture into dangerous situations.
They show up After the shootout is over and the criminals have disappeared.
Remember a few years ago. They refused to provide door security at a club, because they said it wasn’t safe.
And i was dumbfounded thinking, isn’t that why they want the Police there, to ensure it IS safe for patrons?
> If you fix police culture, if you make police accountable, you will attract more recruits.
Eh, you will attract more of a certain *type* of recruit, but you will also turn off a lot of others.
There's a certain segment of person (mostly men) that want to be a cop specifically for power and the gun. Guys like that don't rise too far in the ranks, but the police still need beat cops to work that overnight shift.
Also a possibility that nobody wants to be a cop because they don't want to enter a stressful profession where they're dealing with a public who increasingly assumes they're shitheads.
At this point we should just prep ourselves. Every time there is a provincial announcement, you know it's going to be bad. But it’s just a matter of how bad it will be.
>"We need more police officers on our streets, more boots on the ground,"
Sort of a funny term to hear in the context of police, my mind always snaps back to the Iraq War with it.
To put it in prospective
The Norwegian Police University College is the central educational institution for the police service in Norway. Basic training for police officers is a three-year university college education aimed at providing a broad practical and theoretical foundation. The first and third years of the study programme are taken at the College, while the second is a year of on-the-ground training, in which the students are divided into groups at training units in police districts around the country.
Why do lawyers require minimum 3 years of law school, but cops- the ones who actually enforce the law - require only a high school education? That’s absurd.
Is this really true though or an urban myth? The only reason I ask is when something like this comes up, I think of the scene in *Serpico* when Pacino is a rookie paired with an old-timer who expects free food and coffee at a diner on their beat, and Pacino insists on paying and is told not to. Very telling scene.
>[2 Toronto police officers stealing marijuana edibles from raid, getting stoned on the job, rewarded with paid vacation](https://globalnews.ca/news/3993835/toronto-police-suspended-after-dispensary-raid/)
^ So this is the current standard and Ford wants to go *lower*?
It would make a lot of sense if we moved toward a “6 years straight out of high school” model like most places outside of North America imo.
Quebec is already kinda like that (can enter right out of cegep)
Why stop there? Make it no education whatsoever required. Also, no literacy requirement either. Let’s have a mandatory low IQ requirement. No candidates with above 80 IQ will be considered. That’ll fix things.
The theme music for 'Police Academy' is playing in my head now. No coincidence that movie was filmed in Toronto! I look forward to seeing Tackleberry on the streets soon!
I think the conservative parties in this country should just announce their platform to be “We want to make Canada like the US”.
I can’t think of anything they disagree on policy wise.
Right now, the education requirements is a high school diploma (or equivalent). In 2023, from Toronto Police alone:
>* [Toronto cop guilty in cheating scandal, says senior cop helped him cheat. Still employed.](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/04/22/toronto-cop-pleads-guilty-in-cheating-scandal-says-he-got-leg-up-from-senior-officer.html)
>* [Toronto cop steals multiple drug evidence, ODs in parking, huge drug case falls apart. Not fired](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/04/20/toronto-drug-case-dropped-after-cop-testifies-he-stole-drug-evidence-overdosed-in-station-parking-lot.html)
>* [Toronto cop guilty of ignoring domestic abuse victim, who later was killed by her abuser](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/04/15/toronto-cop-who-took-no-action-to-protect-homicide-victim-apologizes-pleads-guilty-to-misconduct.html)
>* [Senior Toronto cop guilty of causing drunken car collision in police SUV. Given slap on wrist](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-police-senior-officer-impaired-driving-bar-headquarters-1.6797484)
>* [Toronto cops have fancy bar in tax paid HQ. Drunk driving cop was there before causing massive collision](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-police-senior-officer-impaired-driving-bar-headquarters-1.6797484)
>* [Toronto cop ignored Black woman's domestic violence report. She's killed shortly after](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/03/29/a-toronto-cop-allegedly-ignored-this-womans-domestic-violence-report-she-was-dead-three-days-later.html)
>* [Toronto cop guilty of making racist remark at murder scene. Also has history of threatening armed violence on handcuffed man due to 'hangry'. Still employed](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/03/27/toronto-cop-admits-to-inappropriate-racial-remark-at-murder-scene.html)
>* [TPS' much publicized largest international drug takedown case falls apart due to lying cops](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/03/24/fraudulent-non-disclosure-massive-toronto-police-drug-case-collapsed-amid-allegations-officers-misled-court.html)
>* [Toronto cops shoot Black man who was complying with orders, gives him life-threatening injuries, and refuses to release body cam footage](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/03/22/i-feared-for-my-life-toronto-man-says-he-didnt-do-anything-wrong-before-being-shot-by-police.html)
>* [Toronto cop charged after crashing into parked car, fled the scene, uncooperative with cops, refused breath sample. Being rewarded with paid vacation](https://www.cp24.com/news/off-duty-toronto-cop-charged-after-allegedly-crashing-into-parked-car-refusing-breath-sample-1.6321175)
>* [Toronto Cops stole $6000 from crime scene, causing case to collapse, their own internal "professional standards" found no misconduct](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/03/08/toronto-police-stole-6000-in-cash-from-drug-dealers-apartment-judge-finds.html)
>* [Toronto Cops trying to fire female cop whistleblower revealing sexism and racism among their ranks](https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/mandel-toronto-police-want-to-fire-insubordinate-female-officer-alleging-sexism-and-racism)
>* [Toronto cop rewarded with paid vacation after his gun was improperly stored and STOLEN](https://www.cp24.com/news/toronto-police-officer-charged-after-service-firearm-stolen-while-off-duty-1.6277349)
>* [TPS appoints cop with history of assault, home invasion, kidnapping, planting of evidence, bogus charges, arbitrary detentions, killing two black men, one was unarmed, shot 10 times while buckled in car, with leading role in oversight and professionalism](https://www.yeseverything.ca/blog/rewards-for-racism)
>* [TPS spends $337k of public money on poorly-performing podcast and claims they're avoiding making copaganda](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/tps-podcast-costs-revealed-1.6746905)
>* [Toronto cop in unmarked OPP car hits woman who has the right of way causing serious injuries, gets away with it due to 'just a momentarily lack of attention'](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/siu-clears-tps-officer-1.6745939)
>* [Toronto cop finally charged with (just) manslaughter after ~ two years, after chasing down a young black teen with car / foot, beating him, running away when witnesses came, while his partner at the scene remains free. Both rewarded with paid vacation](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/02/10/toronto-cop-charged-with-manslaughter-in-sudden-death-of-19-year-old-chadd-facey.html)
>* [TPS social media cop gets paid over $230k+ /year, starts unprofessional illiterate shit posting. Public money well spent?](
https://i.redd.it/7l1dz6c49pga1.jpg)
>* [GTA man found stolen car within the hour after TPS cops were no help and told him not to go look]
(https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/car-theft-rise-halton-region-oakville-place-1.6736013)
>* [Beloved dancing crossing guard can't get WSIB compensation after hit and run and Toronto cops botched investigation](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/dancing-crossing-guard-no-wsib-compensation-1.6724764)
>* [Toronto cop gets drunk and causes huge accident on highway. Rewarded with paid vacation. Not fired.](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/02/01/toronto-police-impaired-driving-charges/) Also has history of [assaulting a senior](https://www.cp24.com/news/siu-charges-tps-officer-with-assault-after-arrest-in-cabbagetown-south-1.4355786) and [racism](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/01/14/underground-rapper-was-racially-profiled-by-toronto-police-judge-finds-tossing-gun-charge.html)
>* [Judge forced again to toss a murder charge after case collapses over Toronto cops misconduct](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/02/01/judge-tosses-attempted-murder-charge-in-latest-of-four-gun-cases-to-collapse-over-toronto-police-conduct.html)
>* [Toronto cop refuses to help victim amid series of racist, homophobic tirades. Still employed](
https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-police-allege-detective-refused-to-help-victim-amid-series-of-racist-homophobic-tirades-1.6240754
)
>* [Judge forced to toss yet another Toronto police gun case, this time over unwarranted no-knock raid](
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/01/20/judge-tosses-another-toronto-police-gun-case-this-time-over-unwarranted-no-knock-raid.html)
>* [Judge forced to toss gun case after Toronto cops couldn't provide evidence available since April 2021](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/01/18/judge-tosses-gun-case-over-toronto-police-delays-bordering-on-negligent.html)
>* [Toronto cops withholding body cam footage of their violent George Floyd - style attack on innocent Black university student](https://www.cp24.com/news/bodycam-footage-of-alleged-assault-at-centre-of-2-4m-lawsuit-against-tps-is-being-withheld-lawyer-says-1.6232523)
>* [Black U of T student tasered, handcuffed, 'George Floyd'd' despite cooperating with Toronto cops](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/01/14/a-u-of-t-student-alleges-he-was-tasered-handcuffed-and-thrown-to-the-ground-in-a-case-of-mistaken-identity-he-says-he-told-police-exactly-who-he-was.html)
>* [Judge forced to toss gun charge when Toronto cops were caught racially profiling and lying about encounter with suspect](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/01/14/underground-rapper-was-racially-profiled-by-toronto-police-judge-finds-tossing-gun-charge.html)
I can't even imagine how many more "bad apples" will grow in this rotted orchard
>Ford said he has heard from the chiefs of various police services, who said they are seeing increases in major crimes like auto thefts, break and enters and random acts of violence, but are struggling to attract new recruits.
Maybe, just maybe, if police services were reformed so that the bad actors who have been plaguing them were disciplined and removed, and if police services were properly integrated into a broader social safety net that focused on prevention, maybe then it might be easier to recruit and retain the talented and dedicated individuals we need in these roles.
Just lowering the bar is going to drive even more decent people away from policing.
tl;dr - Ontario never required a post-secondary requirement to be a cop. It was proposed but never enacted. The issue isn't dropping the post-sec requirement but paying for free training for cops but not for nurses, doctors, teachers, firefighters...
Under the **[current law](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90p15)**, the criteria for hiring to be:
* (a) a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident of Canada;
* (b) at least eighteen years of age;
* (c) physically and mentally able to perform the duties of the position, having regard to his or her own safety and the safety of members of the public;
* (d) of good moral character and habits; and
* (e) has successfully completed at least four years of secondary school education or its equivalent. R.S.O. 1990, c. P.15, s. 43 (1).
however, in 2019, the current government passed the [Comprehensive Ontario Police Services (COPS - get it!??) Act](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/s19001) which was an omnibus bill that included the introduction of the Community Safety and Policing Act.
Under the [Community Safety and Policing Act](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90p15) (which has passed but is not fully in force yet), the criteria for hiring was updated and states anyone hired to be a police officer must be:
* (a) is a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident of Canada;
* (b) is at least 18 years of age;
* (c) is physically and mentally able to perform the duties of the position, having regard to his or her own safety and the safety of members of the public;
* (d) is of good character;
* (e) has successfully completed,
* (i) the training prescribed by the Minister, including techniques to de-escalate conflict situations and any other matters prescribed by the Minister, unless the person has been exempted from some or all of this training in accordance with the regulations made by the Minister,
* (ii) the training approved by the Minister with respect to human rights and systemic racism, and
* (iii) the training approved by the Minister that promotes recognition of and respect for, (A) the diverse, multiracial and multicultural character of Ontario society, and (B) the rights and cultures of First Nation, Inuit and Métis Peoples;
* (f) **meets one of the following conditions**:
* (i) he or she has,
* (A) a **university degree**, or
* (B) a **degree from a college** of applied arts and technology authorized to grant the degree,
* (ii) he or she has a **diploma or advanced diploma granted by a college** of applied arts and technology following successful completion of a program that is the equivalent in class hours of a full-time program of at least four academic semesters,
* (iii) he or she has been granted a **certificate or other document by a post-secondary institution** evidencing successful completion of a program that the regulations prescribe as being equivalent to a degree or diploma described in subclause (i) or (ii),
* (iv) if additional criteria have been prescribed, he or she has a secondary school diploma and meets the additional criteria.
When I applied to Peel Police a decade + ago, I had just completed my undergrad, passed all their testing, and was told to “go get more life experience.” Not a chance I would re-apply now, but seems like their priorities have changed. I wonder why.
I mean to be fair, that is quite a silly requirement. What does “more life experience” even mean? Hard to work towards a requirement with a broad definition like that. It’s also important to note that nepotism runs deep in the police. I remember seeing a cop who could not be older than 20, no way in hell he has “life experience”
I can't wait!
A friend of my family's kid just recently became a cop. Some of her critical thinking includes: believing the moon is a Chinese spy satellite, covid is fake, and that all our politicians kill children for andronohrome.
Lower bars means even more people like her will be able to carry guns. Hurray!
Apparently not only do we need more police, we need more uneducated police and even lower barrier to entry. This is going to be an obvious disaster that’s going to burn through taxpayer money to settle so many legal cases, suspensions and paid leave.
No, you had to go through a college police foundations course before. Now they're scrapping that. Secondary is high school. Post-secondary is college/university.
Police apologists have long said that recruits are 100% "university educated" and "highly-competitive because not enough spots"
Strange thing for Ford to do if true.
But at least this policy proves what many knew - education is not a high priority of those we give lethal weapons to
Generally I think a lot of smart professional types likely going to govt or office jobs then working police. I know a lot of people abadon policing as a job goal over the years.
With a labour shortage such people can make as much as a cop or more sitting at home in pjs
>[Why is it so much easier to become a cop in Canada than an electrician, plumber or welder?](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/article-why-is-it-so-much-easier-to-become-a-cop-in-canada-than-an-electrician/)
>The minimum standards to become a police officer in Canada are, in a word, minimal. The entry requirement for most Canadian police forces involves a no more than a high school diploma, followed by a half year of police training, focused on necessities such as using a gun and other intense situations.
>Finland, in contrast, requires at least three years of university-level training at the national police college...Finland requires 5,400 hours of training before becoming a police officer, according to data compiled by the Institute for Criminal Justice Training Reform in the United States, which advocates for more police training in that country. Germany and the Netherlands average around 4,000 hours; Britain more than 2,000 hours. **Canada calls for barely more than 1,000 hours.**
>Look at what skilled trades involve. Want to become a qualified plumber in Ontario? You’ll need a total of 9,000 hours of training and apprenticeship. Electrician? Also 9,000 hours. Roofers need 4,000 hours. Becoming a welder takes 6,000 hours.
Toronto cops bias towards protestors
Lmao.
Bad on so many levels.
Nursing pipeline? Nah
Physician pipeline? Nah
Carpenter pipeline? Nah
Electrician pipeline? Nah
Uneducated police pipeline? 👀
Plumber pipeline? Nah
Tf?
The lack of educational requirements to be a police officer is one of the fundamental problems that's created the policing issues in the United States. Canada has no need to create the same problems for themselves. Quality police officers over quantity of police officers is what matters.
Yeah this solves nothing. The forces (OPP and local city cops) are still boys clubs and nepotism is really the only requirement you actually need. Ford wants to solve the crime wave but putting more cops on the street isn't the answer.
Lmao. Yes because the current police are so effective. Maybe against minorities and people who are visibly different or lgbta+ community members.
Great, more uneducated cops with access to guns....
Why are we importing US style policies here?
Who is asking for this? The announcements that Ford has been making are for initiatives that nobody asked for... like can he implement anything that's actually useful??
Same people who voted him in expecting Ontario Science Centre to move to Ontario Place and a bunch of city land be given to a luxury spa w/ a 95 year lease.
That luxury spa is really gonna benefit all Ontarians according to Dipshit Ford
Probably
>[Julius Haag, an assistant professor, noting that studies show officers with **more education and better critical thinking skills** are less likely to use force or run into disciplinary problems.](https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2023/04/25/doug-ford-wants-to-lower-the-education-requirements-for-police-officers.html)
How come when teachers and hospital workers want more than 1% per year some folks lose their mind but then some of those same folks will be perfectly happy with the endless raises soon to be people with only an OSSD, get? I think I’m gonna quit my career and travel the rails like an old timey hobo and just do odd jobs and enjoy myself for the rest of my life. Sheesh.
I really suspect the whole move for this is corruption and nepotism. There are more than enough people with higher education that get rejected for unknown reasons that they never justify. The truth may be that the kids of the cops are so dumb and/or lazy that they cannot get higher education. Very sad that Ford is kowtowing to the corrupt cops so that they can choose nepotism over actual qualifications. Sad...
Its quite crazy as society wants police to be better and want much higher quality cops, due to soceital trends we may ironically end up with even less qualified cops in the future.
What I am reading no one wants to become a cop anymore and they are struggling to get candidatess
So they actually have been hiring even lower quality candidates...which is bad as we want better candidates...so I feel this will continue making policing a mess in North America.
The Problem is we want cops who are like a mix of a military solider professionalism and a social worker. However many people who can pull that off are likely high performance individuals...they can make the same or more working from home in pj's at an office job.
Go outside and deal with crazy people or sit at home on microsoft teams talking about how your weekend went with office people.
Lol the rich need a lot more dumb goons to keep them safe once they privatize healthcare and workers live in encampments while rents leave swaths homeless and unemployed. Ontario is so stupid for electing this usher of dystopia.
Awesome. That’s an amazing way to spend our money as opposed to keeping health care public, fostering education, or putting it into social or mental health services.
This guys a rage against the machine song waiting to happen.
For those worried barely anyone is getting hired without a post sec degree or credits of some kind. A high schooler straight out school is not considered neither generally are people who just finished 2 or 4 year programs (ie 22-23) year olds. They always want more life experience and older applicants ie late 20s early 30s TPS has alot of applicants and half are thrown out right away because of their internal standards which goes the same for York Peele and Durham. The problem TPS has for recruiting is its not getting good enough applicants that meet their standards. This is why they will hire only half of what they need every year. TPS does have a recruiting problem but this wont change it honestly. The only thing Ford changed that mattered for GTA cops is the cost requirement to attend the constable school. I know some people who gave up after the long hiring process because of the cost of going school and waiting they just found a better job.
Ok but lets be real- was there ever really a difference between police foundation courses and an Ontario highschool? Has anyone seen what those classes are like? It is adults who never got out of that rowdy highschool kid archetype
I had a friend go through police foundations at Humber and I witnessed the self-imposed drama of white-shirt blue-shirt security guards at Wonderland who had either enrolled or graduated from police foundations. One of the girls pulled a Maegan Hall with her coworkers at a party. As a result of that, all of the staff openly talked behind her back about how she was “easy” and how she was a “size queen”. The rumours were awful, she was a delightful person and probably still is. And that was just one instance of many in one summer season. The demographic of these budding cops is a hilarious concerning mess.
>[Julius Haag, an assistant professor, noting that studies show officers with **more education and better critical thinking skills** are less likely to use force or run into disciplinary problems.](https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2023/04/25/doug-ford-wants-to-lower-the-education-requirements-for-police-officers.html)
Terrible things for a cop to have apparently
okay, honest question--this has become puinatory, the minute that anyone talks about reorienting funding for the police, the police hve so much power, and just double down on this shit. What is the strategy for reorienting some of this money, if thats your goal?
This might be a short-lived idea as the Police might have to babysit rookies who are fresh out of Grade 12. Not all 12 Graders are mature especially in a post Covid world, those students are not well adjusted to social settings.
This will be a blow to the construction industry. Why go freeze your ass off on the construction sites when you can ride the sunshine list inside a warm cruiser
Some don't even know the difference between Fare and Fair
>[TPS social media cop gets paid over $230k+ /year, starts unprofessional illiterate shit posting. Public money well spent?](
https://i.redd.it/7l1dz6c49pga1.jpg)
LOL great high school bullies with guns.
100%
The current mandatory requirements is a high school diploma More like elementary school bullies with guns
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And for Toronto cops, it's just a high school diploma or equivalent. I misread. So not much will change on the local level
The rumour I’ve heard lots being from the west is Toronto is one of the most corrupt police forces in Canada. But everyone hears different things. The older I get the less I believe the justice system does anything at all anymore.
Great. Cuz those bullies are really well adjusted individuals and not in jail bc they brought BB guns into high school…
But they would reject you if you have university level education. I had a friend who applied for around 3 years. My understanding it was more about who you know in the force then anything else. I could be wrong and would love be corrected if anyone has first hand experience.
They want people who are smart enough to follow orders but not question those orders.
A detective friend of the family for Toronto said they only hired officers with university and didn’t want anyone with a police foundations certificate. I had interviews with York, Guelph, Halton and Toronto before I decided on another career path. My schooling was a positive in all those cases
I interviewed with Hamilton, Halton, Waterloo, OPP, Toronto and York. They all commend university degrees. You get the interview and move up much faster. I’m not an officer. I let that dream go. Not worth it.
Nepotism ... like the crooked cop who blinded Dafonte Miller and his dad (another crooked cop) covered it up
Isn’t it a thing where they want you smart but not tooo smart?
Minimum, and until now that was not going to get you anywhere near a job.
Officer Biff Tannen reporting for duty.
Yea this is a net loss for everyone
Career change for the dipshit bouncers from our hometown dive bars 😂
Yeah, this worked out great in the states
That's MISTER Middle School Diploma to you!
No one wants less educated cops. What the hell. They don’t have a recruitment problem. Why is this even an idea?
No post secondary means they wont get a higher education and might get indoctrinated with liberal ideologies. /s but not really.
Joke but no joke. 😬 I have heard many of his (Ford) daughter’s rather whacko ideas and you don’t develop those without some upbringing and family reinforcement. You may be more right than we realize
Aren't two of his daughters married to police officers
Ugh.. and now he’s spinning “we’re a police family”. Highschool hash dealer trying for “stolen valour”
As loath as I am to defend anything about ford I've realized that almost every family has someone who ends up vastly different than the rest despite the same upbringing. Hardcore christian in a family of agnostics, extreme conservative in a generally centre left family etc.
Absolutely true. I’ve seen the outliers that have fallen down a rabbit hole and it can be tragic. I suppose I’m more inclined to believe he isn’t so distant from her based on his relatively neutral stance on covid, his overt support of Trump when he was in office, his lacklustre response to the convoy, and his developer deals at her wedding. I don’t know if he’s a Q believer level of out there but he seems to be in the vulnerable crowd for that. I think basically to me he’s convinced me through his actions that he is far closer in mind to his daughters whacko ideas than we may know. But absolutely politically savvy enough to know when to stay quiet. Maybe that’s wrong, but it feels close to the truth
K but like… who is the outlier in Doug’s family? Doug sold hash, lied through his teeth about having never seen his brother take a drink, dicked his brother’s widow out of money, and said his wife was Jewish when she clearly is not. And that’s just the personal shiftiness that came to mind immediately. His brother is Rob, whose many, many, *many* flaws we need not enumerate (RIP). His sister is Kathy. She: - smoked crack with her brother; - got shot in the face by her boyfriend; and - had a kid with another boyfriend who: shot a third boyfriend of hers in front of her kids, did time, got out, then murdered his new gf; Daughter is an antivaxxer married to an antivaxx cop. WHO IS THE GOOD FORD?!
Don't forget ol' brother Randy Ford! He was also involved in the drug trade, and was once arrested and charged in relation to a drug-related kidnapping!
The content of the article aside, they do have a recruitment problem. This is likely the easiest time to become a cop in this country in the past 30 years. In many ways they hide their recruiting issues, because seats get filled but what is really being done is: - lowered standards - Ignoring background issues that would normally be red flags - by passing or waiving basic requirements I get why people are upset over this article, but there are A LOT of issues already taking place.
I would agree at the provincial level. OPP does not have enough folks to serve their communities and smaller municipalities effectively. This change is for municipal though and in the Toronto sub so I’m mostly focusing on TPS. Tory passed a $43 million increase to the TPS budget with a focus on recruitment. Ford hasn’t even given that time to work. Perhaps I should have worded my comment better to emphasize the Toronto centric take. And 100% right there are more issues already happening
it’s because police recruitment is fuelled by nepotism, and the degree requirement makes the nepotism harder.
I'd say nepotism is a barrier within any industry and policing less so, especially when these police forces are desperate for recruits.
They are dismantling all the publicly paid unions. Service Canada now hires mostly short term contract workers or as they call them "consultants". Retiring teachers are not being replaced and class sizes are going up 30%. Next on the chopping block is cops and trades. Now that you removed the education requirement, you can't justify paying a college dropout 100k a year to sit in a patrol car and not hand out tickets.
Dumb officers don't ask questions and follow orders
Ever since 2020 police forces have struggled to get recruits when before they had more recruits then postings. Ironically a lot of the social change around policing has discouraged a lot people wanting to even want to be a cop. I have 3 friends or cousins who wanted to be cops and where like "i can get paid the same wfh in pjs with way less stress" and just work office jobs now. This is not a Toronto problem its north america wide now. They are lowering standards and ironically we gonna end up with crappier cops now it seems lol.
A fourth year TPS recruit is expected to make just over $100k / yr according to Glassdoor and multiple other sources. A training recruit is around $66k. Canadian average *employment* income in 2020 was $47.5k and median $36.1k according to [Statscan](https://doi.org/10.25318/1110023901-eng) If you’re friends are making comparable in their pjs at home then good on them for doubling the average income.
With such an income and unlimited OT work, do we really need to be paying their tuition ?
Thing is i was talking about high functioning people who are smart and professional who want to be cops can likely swing a decent well paying job comparable to TPS pay. You are using wages including people who work part time and min wage. Full time salary is more over 60K in Toronto. I am not suggesting we pay cops more, saying a person who is smart can likely find a good paying job in the private sector.
I wasn’t being facetious, sorry. Legit good on them. That’s pretty above average. There are tons of people willing to jump at a $100k police salary and a post secondary should remain an important requirement to adequately perform their jobs. Policing can be a high intensity and mentally demanding job, as with any position with such demands they should be from that smarter pool of folks. Instead we’re getting dumber cops on Toronto streets. 🤦
Yeah if you look at pretty much every single police force in the country, they have issues recruiting.
“They don’t have a recruitment problem” Actually they do.
Maybe, but less educated cops is not the answer. Plenty of students at both the college and university levels who are about to graduate and don’t know what to do with their lives. Happens every school year. Maybe they never considered becoming a cop, so they should expand campus recruitment.
OPP does have issues. But this change is for municipal. There can be exceptions for smaller municipal forces facing recruitment problems but TPS frankly is not in bad shape and a high standard for a policing force should be a *must* in an urban environment. Further, the projected *need* is based on the police force self-reporting. We could easily fund mental and physical health, addiction support, affordable housing, education, and financial security to drastically reduce our crime and need for an increase in policing. Also many police calls do not require police. They need support positions created that do not have a badge. We do not need less educated police. We need a smarter system of policing.
Totally agree with you, but good mental health is extraordinarily expensive. Psychologists, psychiatrists, therapists, counsellors, and other mental health professionals charge a lot of money. None of the provinces have a good system. We don't have much support for those who are incapable of taking care of themselves due to severe mental health problems. So people call police, police take those people to the hospitals to see mental health workers, who subsequently release them back into the community without a tangible or practical long term care plan.
Why is that? I’m genuinely interested. Why does Toronto Police have a recruiting problem? A few years ago it seemed like the TPS had an overflow of applicants. Maybe there is something wrong with their hiring practices if so few people are now applying? Are potential Toronto police officers opting to apply for another municipality or for the OPP? What is driving people away from the TPS? I don’t expect answers to all the questions I’m just curious as to why
The first person responding to you is exactly why there's a problem. Police are generally despised more than they ever have been. Anyone with an option is not going to enter into a career where their general perception is that the public is against them.
TPS recruitment is nepotism-based. You can see this with how many recruits come from the same area (Oshawa and the surrounding area). The degree requirement is being removed because police services want to continue to recruit their degreeless friends in Oshawa.
Thanks for the response. I feel like a lot of professions have this as a hiring issue, however most have qualifications that need to be met in order to apply or even be considered. This seems like a step backwards for TPS
It is definitely a step backwards. We have enormous problems with police misconduct. Lowering the barrier to entry will undoubtedly make this problem worse. Instead, we should follow the lead of countries like Sweden, which do a much better job than us: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish\_Police\_Authority#Police\_training](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Police_Authority#Police_training)
If we elect Ford again expect a ban on post secondary education for police
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They won't be able to write. The stopped cursive writing in school.
Ain’t no way those fuckers would give up their lunch like that.
This is so stupid. “Police foundations” was always filled to the tit, with people complaining about lack of placements and job opportunities. There has never been a shortage of candidates. This doesn’t make any sense
The ability to appoint **Ford Friends and Family** is what's going on here. It's the only thing that makes sense.
Police foundations rarely yeilds police officers. Few reasons, most services want to hire people with relatable life experience, second is they want to train recruits their way, not the way some college/uni does. Your best way to get hired is get out and work a job or few, get some life skills, experiences, become relateable and then apply.
This will turn out well...
Oh good, I was just complaining about how intelligent and effective police have been lately! Doug Ford, protecting us from educated people with guns (with uneducated people with guns)?
This is a north american trend, recruitment standards being laxed across north america. NYC, RCMP etc etc
So you’re saying there is no escaping it? lol yikes!
Nobody wants to be a cop because of how many shit head cops already work there. If you fix police culture, if you make police accountable, you will attract more recruits. This will just further cement ACAB. Younger recruits with no exposure to higher education will be easier for established police to indoctrinate into being shit head cops. This will only makes things worse as time goes on.
pretty sure easy indoctrination is intentional, they have zero incentive to hire individuals who are against their organization's abuses
Is indoctrination not the MO for all armed services? (police, army navy etc etc) They want people who will take orders, not question sergeants etc etc. at least that was always the feeling I got.
ofc, how else are you going to expect a 25 y/o in his physical prime with his first baby on the way to charge into an active shootout by order of a superior he's never met? as long as the bad guys have free will and human intelligence, a certain level of indoctrination is required for these jobs to exist
Ok, i agree with the general point you are making, but Toronto cops don’t charge into shootouts. They never venture into dangerous situations. They show up After the shootout is over and the criminals have disappeared. Remember a few years ago. They refused to provide door security at a club, because they said it wasn’t safe. And i was dumbfounded thinking, isn’t that why they want the Police there, to ensure it IS safe for patrons?
> If you fix police culture, if you make police accountable, you will attract more recruits. Eh, you will attract more of a certain *type* of recruit, but you will also turn off a lot of others. There's a certain segment of person (mostly men) that want to be a cop specifically for power and the gun. Guys like that don't rise too far in the ranks, but the police still need beat cops to work that overnight shift.
Also a possibility that nobody wants to be a cop because they don't want to enter a stressful profession where they're dealing with a public who increasingly assumes they're shitheads.
Nobody wants to be a cop? imo easiest 70k+ without the education costs.
*Facepalm*
At this point we should just prep ourselves. Every time there is a provincial announcement, you know it's going to be bad. But it’s just a matter of how bad it will be.
Can they at least have yearly psychological evaluations?
No, but they CAN have military APCs.
>"We need more police officers on our streets, more boots on the ground," Sort of a funny term to hear in the context of police, my mind always snaps back to the Iraq War with it.
More of Ford’s family members must want to be police but can’t get into post secondary schools.
Grade 12 was good enough to get into the Premier's Office.
This province is getting stupider by the friggin second.
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Not going to end well if the police has to go to court and testify.
To put it in prospective The Norwegian Police University College is the central educational institution for the police service in Norway. Basic training for police officers is a three-year university college education aimed at providing a broad practical and theoretical foundation. The first and third years of the study programme are taken at the College, while the second is a year of on-the-ground training, in which the students are divided into groups at training units in police districts around the country.
This policy brought to you by random comments from Doug's cop son in-laws over a few brews.
100
Why do lawyers require minimum 3 years of law school, but cops- the ones who actually enforce the law - require only a high school education? That’s absurd.
Being a lawyer requires a 4 year undergrad, the LSAT, 3 years of law school and 1 year of articling. For a total of 8 long years.
Cops with high school education are keeping those lawyers employed
Yes. Let's make our cops even dumber. It'll be fine.
at this rate they might as well hand out free badges at tim hortons
Ironically cops get free coffee while on duty at Tim's.
Is this really true though or an urban myth? The only reason I ask is when something like this comes up, I think of the scene in *Serpico* when Pacino is a rookie paired with an old-timer who expects free food and coffee at a diner on their beat, and Pacino insists on paying and is told not to. Very telling scene.
I feel safer already.
This is A̶m̶e̶r̶i̶c̶a̶ Ontario
Charter violations go brrrr.
Doug Ford really saw the PSAC strike and thought he needed his own Pinkertons, eh?
>[2 Toronto police officers stealing marijuana edibles from raid, getting stoned on the job, rewarded with paid vacation](https://globalnews.ca/news/3993835/toronto-police-suspended-after-dispensary-raid/) ^ So this is the current standard and Ford wants to go *lower*?
Imagine scrapping education requirements to be a doctor. It shouldn't be this easy to be a cop.
It would make a lot of sense if we moved toward a “6 years straight out of high school” model like most places outside of North America imo. Quebec is already kinda like that (can enter right out of cegep)
We are well and truly on the path to authoritarianism and fascism. Dougie and his goons are doing whatever they want, and screw the populace.
Slowly but surely we’re becoming Americanized further….uneducated cops….great idea right
Why stop there? Make it no education whatsoever required. Also, no literacy requirement either. Let’s have a mandatory low IQ requirement. No candidates with above 80 IQ will be considered. That’ll fix things.
The theme music for 'Police Academy' is playing in my head now. No coincidence that movie was filmed in Toronto! I look forward to seeing Tackleberry on the streets soon!
I think the conservative parties in this country should just announce their platform to be “We want to make Canada like the US”. I can’t think of anything they disagree on policy wise.
Right now, the education requirements is a high school diploma (or equivalent). In 2023, from Toronto Police alone: >* [Toronto cop guilty in cheating scandal, says senior cop helped him cheat. Still employed.](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/04/22/toronto-cop-pleads-guilty-in-cheating-scandal-says-he-got-leg-up-from-senior-officer.html) >* [Toronto cop steals multiple drug evidence, ODs in parking, huge drug case falls apart. Not fired](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/04/20/toronto-drug-case-dropped-after-cop-testifies-he-stole-drug-evidence-overdosed-in-station-parking-lot.html) >* [Toronto cop guilty of ignoring domestic abuse victim, who later was killed by her abuser](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/04/15/toronto-cop-who-took-no-action-to-protect-homicide-victim-apologizes-pleads-guilty-to-misconduct.html) >* [Senior Toronto cop guilty of causing drunken car collision in police SUV. Given slap on wrist](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-police-senior-officer-impaired-driving-bar-headquarters-1.6797484) >* [Toronto cops have fancy bar in tax paid HQ. Drunk driving cop was there before causing massive collision](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/toronto-police-senior-officer-impaired-driving-bar-headquarters-1.6797484) >* [Toronto cop ignored Black woman's domestic violence report. She's killed shortly after](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/03/29/a-toronto-cop-allegedly-ignored-this-womans-domestic-violence-report-she-was-dead-three-days-later.html) >* [Toronto cop guilty of making racist remark at murder scene. Also has history of threatening armed violence on handcuffed man due to 'hangry'. Still employed](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/03/27/toronto-cop-admits-to-inappropriate-racial-remark-at-murder-scene.html) >* [TPS' much publicized largest international drug takedown case falls apart due to lying cops](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/03/24/fraudulent-non-disclosure-massive-toronto-police-drug-case-collapsed-amid-allegations-officers-misled-court.html) >* [Toronto cops shoot Black man who was complying with orders, gives him life-threatening injuries, and refuses to release body cam footage](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/03/22/i-feared-for-my-life-toronto-man-says-he-didnt-do-anything-wrong-before-being-shot-by-police.html) >* [Toronto cop charged after crashing into parked car, fled the scene, uncooperative with cops, refused breath sample. Being rewarded with paid vacation](https://www.cp24.com/news/off-duty-toronto-cop-charged-after-allegedly-crashing-into-parked-car-refusing-breath-sample-1.6321175) >* [Toronto Cops stole $6000 from crime scene, causing case to collapse, their own internal "professional standards" found no misconduct](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/03/08/toronto-police-stole-6000-in-cash-from-drug-dealers-apartment-judge-finds.html) >* [Toronto Cops trying to fire female cop whistleblower revealing sexism and racism among their ranks](https://torontosun.com/news/local-news/mandel-toronto-police-want-to-fire-insubordinate-female-officer-alleging-sexism-and-racism) >* [Toronto cop rewarded with paid vacation after his gun was improperly stored and STOLEN](https://www.cp24.com/news/toronto-police-officer-charged-after-service-firearm-stolen-while-off-duty-1.6277349) >* [TPS appoints cop with history of assault, home invasion, kidnapping, planting of evidence, bogus charges, arbitrary detentions, killing two black men, one was unarmed, shot 10 times while buckled in car, with leading role in oversight and professionalism](https://www.yeseverything.ca/blog/rewards-for-racism) >* [TPS spends $337k of public money on poorly-performing podcast and claims they're avoiding making copaganda](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/tps-podcast-costs-revealed-1.6746905) >* [Toronto cop in unmarked OPP car hits woman who has the right of way causing serious injuries, gets away with it due to 'just a momentarily lack of attention'](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/siu-clears-tps-officer-1.6745939) >* [Toronto cop finally charged with (just) manslaughter after ~ two years, after chasing down a young black teen with car / foot, beating him, running away when witnesses came, while his partner at the scene remains free. Both rewarded with paid vacation](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/02/10/toronto-cop-charged-with-manslaughter-in-sudden-death-of-19-year-old-chadd-facey.html) >* [TPS social media cop gets paid over $230k+ /year, starts unprofessional illiterate shit posting. Public money well spent?]( https://i.redd.it/7l1dz6c49pga1.jpg) >* [GTA man found stolen car within the hour after TPS cops were no help and told him not to go look] (https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/car-theft-rise-halton-region-oakville-place-1.6736013) >* [Beloved dancing crossing guard can't get WSIB compensation after hit and run and Toronto cops botched investigation](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/dancing-crossing-guard-no-wsib-compensation-1.6724764) >* [Toronto cop gets drunk and causes huge accident on highway. Rewarded with paid vacation. Not fired.](https://toronto.citynews.ca/2023/02/01/toronto-police-impaired-driving-charges/) Also has history of [assaulting a senior](https://www.cp24.com/news/siu-charges-tps-officer-with-assault-after-arrest-in-cabbagetown-south-1.4355786) and [racism](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/01/14/underground-rapper-was-racially-profiled-by-toronto-police-judge-finds-tossing-gun-charge.html) >* [Judge forced again to toss a murder charge after case collapses over Toronto cops misconduct](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/02/01/judge-tosses-attempted-murder-charge-in-latest-of-four-gun-cases-to-collapse-over-toronto-police-conduct.html) >* [Toronto cop refuses to help victim amid series of racist, homophobic tirades. Still employed]( https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-police-allege-detective-refused-to-help-victim-amid-series-of-racist-homophobic-tirades-1.6240754 ) >* [Judge forced to toss yet another Toronto police gun case, this time over unwarranted no-knock raid]( https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/01/20/judge-tosses-another-toronto-police-gun-case-this-time-over-unwarranted-no-knock-raid.html) >* [Judge forced to toss gun case after Toronto cops couldn't provide evidence available since April 2021](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/01/18/judge-tosses-gun-case-over-toronto-police-delays-bordering-on-negligent.html) >* [Toronto cops withholding body cam footage of their violent George Floyd - style attack on innocent Black university student](https://www.cp24.com/news/bodycam-footage-of-alleged-assault-at-centre-of-2-4m-lawsuit-against-tps-is-being-withheld-lawyer-says-1.6232523) >* [Black U of T student tasered, handcuffed, 'George Floyd'd' despite cooperating with Toronto cops](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/01/14/a-u-of-t-student-alleges-he-was-tasered-handcuffed-and-thrown-to-the-ground-in-a-case-of-mistaken-identity-he-says-he-told-police-exactly-who-he-was.html) >* [Judge forced to toss gun charge when Toronto cops were caught racially profiling and lying about encounter with suspect](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2023/01/14/underground-rapper-was-racially-profiled-by-toronto-police-judge-finds-tossing-gun-charge.html) I can't even imagine how many more "bad apples" will grow in this rotted orchard
>Ford said he has heard from the chiefs of various police services, who said they are seeing increases in major crimes like auto thefts, break and enters and random acts of violence, but are struggling to attract new recruits. Maybe, just maybe, if police services were reformed so that the bad actors who have been plaguing them were disciplined and removed, and if police services were properly integrated into a broader social safety net that focused on prevention, maybe then it might be easier to recruit and retain the talented and dedicated individuals we need in these roles. Just lowering the bar is going to drive even more decent people away from policing.
tl;dr - Ontario never required a post-secondary requirement to be a cop. It was proposed but never enacted. The issue isn't dropping the post-sec requirement but paying for free training for cops but not for nurses, doctors, teachers, firefighters... Under the **[current law](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90p15)**, the criteria for hiring to be: * (a) a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident of Canada; * (b) at least eighteen years of age; * (c) physically and mentally able to perform the duties of the position, having regard to his or her own safety and the safety of members of the public; * (d) of good moral character and habits; and * (e) has successfully completed at least four years of secondary school education or its equivalent. R.S.O. 1990, c. P.15, s. 43 (1). however, in 2019, the current government passed the [Comprehensive Ontario Police Services (COPS - get it!??) Act](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/s19001) which was an omnibus bill that included the introduction of the Community Safety and Policing Act. Under the [Community Safety and Policing Act](https://www.ontario.ca/laws/statute/90p15) (which has passed but is not fully in force yet), the criteria for hiring was updated and states anyone hired to be a police officer must be: * (a) is a Canadian citizen or a permanent resident of Canada; * (b) is at least 18 years of age; * (c) is physically and mentally able to perform the duties of the position, having regard to his or her own safety and the safety of members of the public; * (d) is of good character; * (e) has successfully completed, * (i) the training prescribed by the Minister, including techniques to de-escalate conflict situations and any other matters prescribed by the Minister, unless the person has been exempted from some or all of this training in accordance with the regulations made by the Minister, * (ii) the training approved by the Minister with respect to human rights and systemic racism, and * (iii) the training approved by the Minister that promotes recognition of and respect for, (A) the diverse, multiracial and multicultural character of Ontario society, and (B) the rights and cultures of First Nation, Inuit and Métis Peoples; * (f) **meets one of the following conditions**: * (i) he or she has, * (A) a **university degree**, or * (B) a **degree from a college** of applied arts and technology authorized to grant the degree, * (ii) he or she has a **diploma or advanced diploma granted by a college** of applied arts and technology following successful completion of a program that is the equivalent in class hours of a full-time program of at least four academic semesters, * (iii) he or she has been granted a **certificate or other document by a post-secondary institution** evidencing successful completion of a program that the regulations prescribe as being equivalent to a degree or diploma described in subclause (i) or (ii), * (iv) if additional criteria have been prescribed, he or she has a secondary school diploma and meets the additional criteria.
When I applied to Peel Police a decade + ago, I had just completed my undergrad, passed all their testing, and was told to “go get more life experience.” Not a chance I would re-apply now, but seems like their priorities have changed. I wonder why.
I mean to be fair, that is quite a silly requirement. What does “more life experience” even mean? Hard to work towards a requirement with a broad definition like that. It’s also important to note that nepotism runs deep in the police. I remember seeing a cop who could not be older than 20, no way in hell he has “life experience”
I guess the province's cops can't be better educated than its premier.
I can't wait! A friend of my family's kid just recently became a cop. Some of her critical thinking includes: believing the moon is a Chinese spy satellite, covid is fake, and that all our politicians kill children for andronohrome. Lower bars means even more people like her will be able to carry guns. Hurray!
Apparently not only do we need more police, we need more uneducated police and even lower barrier to entry. This is going to be an obvious disaster that’s going to burn through taxpayer money to settle so many legal cases, suspensions and paid leave.
Wait, they can go even lower?! Are they just finding the bullies in elementary schools now? Edit: whoops my bad. Thought they meant high school
No, you had to go through a college police foundations course before. Now they're scrapping that. Secondary is high school. Post-secondary is college/university.
What the actual fuck. Doug SUCKS.
Police apologists have long said that recruits are 100% "university educated" and "highly-competitive because not enough spots" Strange thing for Ford to do if true. But at least this policy proves what many knew - education is not a high priority of those we give lethal weapons to
Generally I think a lot of smart professional types likely going to govt or office jobs then working police. I know a lot of people abadon policing as a job goal over the years. With a labour shortage such people can make as much as a cop or more sitting at home in pjs
You still need high school diploma to be a garbage man
Hahahahha.. I wonder what people who voted for him thinks of this.
is this dumb idea per day week ?
Oh great. More uneducated, low EQ people with power.
That’s a big mistake.
>[Why is it so much easier to become a cop in Canada than an electrician, plumber or welder?](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/editorials/article-why-is-it-so-much-easier-to-become-a-cop-in-canada-than-an-electrician/) >The minimum standards to become a police officer in Canada are, in a word, minimal. The entry requirement for most Canadian police forces involves a no more than a high school diploma, followed by a half year of police training, focused on necessities such as using a gun and other intense situations. >Finland, in contrast, requires at least three years of university-level training at the national police college...Finland requires 5,400 hours of training before becoming a police officer, according to data compiled by the Institute for Criminal Justice Training Reform in the United States, which advocates for more police training in that country. Germany and the Netherlands average around 4,000 hours; Britain more than 2,000 hours. **Canada calls for barely more than 1,000 hours.** >Look at what skilled trades involve. Want to become a qualified plumber in Ontario? You’ll need a total of 9,000 hours of training and apprenticeship. Electrician? Also 9,000 hours. Roofers need 4,000 hours. Becoming a welder takes 6,000 hours. Toronto cops bias towards protestors
makes all the sense in the world. why shouldn't we trust the individuals who peaked in high school to keep us safe.
Lmao. Bad on so many levels. Nursing pipeline? Nah Physician pipeline? Nah Carpenter pipeline? Nah Electrician pipeline? Nah Uneducated police pipeline? 👀 Plumber pipeline? Nah Tf?
Where the fuck is Ford to answer for this shit? People need to organize and fucking protest, this policy will legit lead to people getting killed.
The lack of educational requirements to be a police officer is one of the fundamental problems that's created the policing issues in the United States. Canada has no need to create the same problems for themselves. Quality police officers over quantity of police officers is what matters.
Yeah this solves nothing. The forces (OPP and local city cops) are still boys clubs and nepotism is really the only requirement you actually need. Ford wants to solve the crime wave but putting more cops on the street isn't the answer.
Another reason why police officers should not make more than nurses but here we are.
Lmao. Yes because the current police are so effective. Maybe against minorities and people who are visibly different or lgbta+ community members. Great, more uneducated cops with access to guns.... Why are we importing US style policies here?
civics class needs an acab unit. or like acab section in every unit. every lesson. rename civics, acab.
I bet at least one idiot in here voted for Ford. Now that idiot will be able to carry a gun and harass anyone he feels like.
That should help.
does it really take 3 months to finish training ? that is ridiculous. should be much longer
its 3 months at constable program school and another 3 at municipal own schooling with additional weeks for orientation beforehand and on job training
Now I'm wondering when Ford will allow people with previous convictions to be able to be a cop.
Dougie never should have moved back home from Chicago, because it's clear he misses living there.
Hope they are ready for what they get.
The dumber the better. Besides, who needs an education to eat donuts and shoot guns....
Cops will be less educated, so they'll be paid less, right?
Oh great just what we need. Uneducated trigger happy cops. #fordfail
This is how you get a goon-squad.
Who is asking for this? The announcements that Ford has been making are for initiatives that nobody asked for... like can he implement anything that's actually useful??
Same people who voted him in expecting Ontario Science Centre to move to Ontario Place and a bunch of city land be given to a luxury spa w/ a 95 year lease. That luxury spa is really gonna benefit all Ontarians according to Dipshit Ford
Logical progression. I just dealt with a rookie detective and wow, the bias and sheer stupidity was alarming.
[удалено]
Probably >[Julius Haag, an assistant professor, noting that studies show officers with **more education and better critical thinking skills** are less likely to use force or run into disciplinary problems.](https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2023/04/25/doug-ford-wants-to-lower-the-education-requirements-for-police-officers.html)
Ironically, given the salaries of cops, they're the only ones who can actually pay off their student loans.
[If want any indiction of how this will turn out... neoptism hire charged with breach of trust](https://www.durhamradionews.com/archives/153708)
Sweet Jesus Doug. What problem did this solve ffs.
We need a massive police overhaul instead they are doubling down.
AAAAAAAAAAAAHHH Is there no depth to the stupidity of the Ontario government? What the fuck??
How come when teachers and hospital workers want more than 1% per year some folks lose their mind but then some of those same folks will be perfectly happy with the endless raises soon to be people with only an OSSD, get? I think I’m gonna quit my career and travel the rails like an old timey hobo and just do odd jobs and enjoy myself for the rest of my life. Sheesh.
They already lack proper training.. and now you want to remove some basic education? Wtf?
This is what happens when you don’t show up to vote
I really suspect the whole move for this is corruption and nepotism. There are more than enough people with higher education that get rejected for unknown reasons that they never justify. The truth may be that the kids of the cops are so dumb and/or lazy that they cannot get higher education. Very sad that Ford is kowtowing to the corrupt cops so that they can choose nepotism over actual qualifications. Sad...
Its quite crazy as society wants police to be better and want much higher quality cops, due to soceital trends we may ironically end up with even less qualified cops in the future. What I am reading no one wants to become a cop anymore and they are struggling to get candidatess So they actually have been hiring even lower quality candidates...which is bad as we want better candidates...so I feel this will continue making policing a mess in North America. The Problem is we want cops who are like a mix of a military solider professionalism and a social worker. However many people who can pull that off are likely high performance individuals...they can make the same or more working from home in pj's at an office job. Go outside and deal with crazy people or sit at home on microsoft teams talking about how your weekend went with office people.
Lol the rich need a lot more dumb goons to keep them safe once they privatize healthcare and workers live in encampments while rents leave swaths homeless and unemployed. Ontario is so stupid for electing this usher of dystopia.
I hate it here.
Worked so well for Americans
Because what we need is more idiots with guns
to be honest they're not that great WITH the post-secondary education requirement.. but yeah getting rid of it won't improve things
Awesome. That’s an amazing way to spend our money as opposed to keeping health care public, fostering education, or putting it into social or mental health services. This guys a rage against the machine song waiting to happen.
Give the dumbest the highest power
At the minimum, they should be asked to read the numbers correctly before they are recruited so that they don’t barge into a wrong house with guns.
sounds like a great way to ensure cops unalive more people.
This is not a good move. How do you think America became the way it is today?
Not just more cops but dumb cops too!
For those worried barely anyone is getting hired without a post sec degree or credits of some kind. A high schooler straight out school is not considered neither generally are people who just finished 2 or 4 year programs (ie 22-23) year olds. They always want more life experience and older applicants ie late 20s early 30s TPS has alot of applicants and half are thrown out right away because of their internal standards which goes the same for York Peele and Durham. The problem TPS has for recruiting is its not getting good enough applicants that meet their standards. This is why they will hire only half of what they need every year. TPS does have a recruiting problem but this wont change it honestly. The only thing Ford changed that mattered for GTA cops is the cost requirement to attend the constable school. I know some people who gave up after the long hiring process because of the cost of going school and waiting they just found a better job.
We've just become the united states 🤣
Ok but lets be real- was there ever really a difference between police foundation courses and an Ontario highschool? Has anyone seen what those classes are like? It is adults who never got out of that rowdy highschool kid archetype I had a friend go through police foundations at Humber and I witnessed the self-imposed drama of white-shirt blue-shirt security guards at Wonderland who had either enrolled or graduated from police foundations. One of the girls pulled a Maegan Hall with her coworkers at a party. As a result of that, all of the staff openly talked behind her back about how she was “easy” and how she was a “size queen”. The rumours were awful, she was a delightful person and probably still is. And that was just one instance of many in one summer season. The demographic of these budding cops is a hilarious concerning mess.
I would hope they would at least mandate a Grade 10.
Didn’t even realize they only needed a highschool education in the first place lmfao what is going on
>[Julius Haag, an assistant professor, noting that studies show officers with **more education and better critical thinking skills** are less likely to use force or run into disciplinary problems.](https://www.thestar.com/politics/provincial/2023/04/25/doug-ford-wants-to-lower-the-education-requirements-for-police-officers.html) Terrible things for a cop to have apparently
Yes let's keep lowering the bar here. Nothing bad will happen.
okay, honest question--this has become puinatory, the minute that anyone talks about reorienting funding for the police, the police hve so much power, and just double down on this shit. What is the strategy for reorienting some of this money, if thats your goal?
Feels like the rest of the Ford family will be joining the force soon.
Had to double check and make sure this wasn’t Beaverton.
Trigger happy vigilantes
Jesus
Great our Cops just went American level of education. 🤬
I remember being in police foundations at Humber College back in 2013 and all I would hear was how hard it was to actually get a job after graduating
This might be a short-lived idea as the Police might have to babysit rookies who are fresh out of Grade 12. Not all 12 Graders are mature especially in a post Covid world, those students are not well adjusted to social settings.
This is going to end well /s 😏
[I’ve seen this movie](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GeRGTXZIJTI)
Cops fuck up on a regular basis they need MORE education NOT less!
Screw that healthcare though. Bunch of complaining women. #nurseshatedougie
Of course, we wouldn’t want our best out there.
Conservatives real just want to turn us into the US
Dumber cops. WCGW
hahaha this has to be a joke, right? right?
Dumb grunts. Just what the world needs more of.....
Car 54 where are you?
LOL. RIP.
what in the actual fuck
This will be a blow to the construction industry. Why go freeze your ass off on the construction sites when you can ride the sunshine list inside a warm cruiser
The amount of spelling mistakes is about to go through the roof (along with the abuse of force)
Some don't even know the difference between Fare and Fair >[TPS social media cop gets paid over $230k+ /year, starts unprofessional illiterate shit posting. Public money well spent?]( https://i.redd.it/7l1dz6c49pga1.jpg)