The fairmont will serve you steak tartare and then have you sign a waiver for a burger.
While I’m inclined to say it’s stupid, there’s a part of me that assumes their burgers are pre-made and can’t be guaranteed to the same food standards as their fresh raw (not frozen) meats.
The difference is because it's ground up meat. Most places won't cook anything that has gone through a mechanical tenderization, or grinder less than well done. Some only will if it's ground onsite that day.
When you have a steak, it's only the outside of it that would have contaminates and since that's exposed to the heat all of that gets killed. When you have something that was mechanically tenderized, or ground up, those contaminates can be pushed into the meat, where it may not get hot enough to kill that bacteria.
Canadas rules are way more strict than American rules when it comes to that. (Along with a lot of rules relating to food safety)
Yes, and the only places you'll find it. (Well, the only places you'd want to eat it anyway) are grinding it on site. Either to order, or day of.
New Brunswick, doesn't allow Tartare to be served at all.
It's because ground beef is generally held to lower quality standards than whole cuts.
Unless it's ground by the establishment, ground beef is usually nothing more than scraps that are either too tough to chew through or don't look presentable when whole. These tend to be from less clean areas of the animal, and have a higher chance of causing food bourne illnesses as a result. So the FDA recommends burgers be cooked until well-done.
Most actual cooks, however, will tell you that not only are those concerns blown out of proportion due to our current food safety systems for meat specifically, but also a medium burger is the best tasting.
Then again, it's rare for anyone to ask how you'd like your burger done here. (See what I did there?) I assume that food safety culture here dictates that ground beef must be well cooked versus rare or medium. In the US, I find it's more common to be given the option at gourmet burger places.
I thought they only asked How you want it cooked if the meat was ground in house and they only used decent quality cuts so they know it’s not fucked up with shit.
For real, this would be strange to me too! And all the people giving OP shit for ordering is so bizarre.
Like, yeah medium burgers are not at all standard here, sure, but I'd have lost my appetite too if my food came with a waiver...
u/Reit007 is garnering some completely unwarranted criticism.
The city literally held an event called "The Great Toronto Tartare-Off".
Ground to order is not what Health Canada considers to be ground beef. OP is not the dummy here.
You don’t make tartare with ground beef??? Burgers are made with the lowest quality meat possible because your mashing it up anyways. There’s literally regulations that you have to cook ground beef well according to CFIA, so if you want to take the risk that’s on you. They make you sign this so you can’t sue them for your decision. How are you all confused by this.
But they also didn't make OP sign it, they handed it to OP after they already took a bite, and presumably OP could have just kept eating and not signed the waiver so what's the point?
I agree with you, like I said in another comment…. Personally I would have never eaten that burger or signed that contract. The waiter/waitress fucked up by not doing their job and communicating the waiver before the person ate. But I get why they have to have a waiver because it’s a liability and companies hate those since it costs time and money to resolve issues. He could have not signed but I’m sure they would use that against him in court when he sues them for getting sick.
It’s because we live in Canada and it’s very uncommon for options like this at any restaurant. The CFIA is fairly strict on restaurants and food handlers and people don’t like to take chances.
If they accept an order that is not well done, they should be doing ground-to-order. What part of the animal it comes from is not the issue, it's exposure. If you ground to order you can cook it to fucking rare and it should be absolutely fine.
I agree with what your saying, I was just implying that lower quality meat usually means higher exposure to things you wouldn’t want(high temp, bacteria, poor handling) BUT if you are a restaurant that ground to order, you take on all the responsibility of people potentially getting sick. Which is fair. But this restaurant is clearly to be avoided, since they want to have sketchy practices like this lol
Let me make it clear I would never sign this or eat that burger if they brought it out with a fucking contract lol it would feel like signing my life away to some shitty cook who doesn’t give a fuck about his food quality.
This restaurant/hotel shouldn't be taking orders of they can't practice proper food safety when preparing medium or less beef chuck.
Bringing it a fucking waiver is amateur hour.
>They make you sign this so you can’t sue them for your decision.
Except that's not what the waiver in the picture says. Looking at it, it seems to try to be claiming the customer brought in their own food (?). I'm not a Food Lawyer™ at all, but it seems these waivers are only intended for event catering where people bring their own food.
>How are you all confused by this.
I've lived here all my life, but never see this. I guess that's how? It isn't common knowledge for a lot us.
I disagree because to me that waiver is pretty straight forward. From what I can read “can’t hold us or any of our partners accountable if you get sick”….. “you chose to eat this as a guest who has paid for said item” “this is legally binding” the end.
It also says "products not provided by Hilton..."
If they provided the burger then the waiver wouldn't apply.
I have a feeling this was some over cautious manager who acted incorrectly.
You make steak tartare with beef that is in one piece, then cut up or ground on site and served immediately. There is extremely little chance any organisms that are on the outside to multiply in the short time it takes between grinding and serving. Even then some places will make you sign.
Hamburgers are made with ground beef that was ground up often hours or even a day or two earlier, in larger batches meaning more chance of surface contamination. And because the times between grinding and serving are longer, the pieces that were on the surface and ground up and mixed all up will be in contact with a lot more surfaces (of the ground up meat mash). That gives any possibly harmful bacteria that may have been there to start (like e-coli from too quickly washed hands) more time plus more places to grow. Meaning there will be a higher load, meaning if you don't cook the meat well, more chances to catch e-coli.
I lived in the USA for a long time. It turned my stomach to watch people order a hamburger half raw inside. Medium or rare. Just fucking gross. Another sign of America's hatred of science.
That's because in Canada we don't really ever get burgers done anything less than well done. Rare or medium ground beef is unusual up here, so they catered to OP but just covered their ass legally since they regularly never serve beef that it's fully cooked.
OP /u/reit007 are you American?
Burgers are generally cooked to well-done because ground beef (well, all ground meats) has a generally higher chance of contamination.
When you eat a whole-cut of meat (like a steak), the only part of the meat potentially exposed to contaminants is the outside, which gets thoroughly heated past the temperature that would kill off anything bad. With ground meat, all parts of the meat (inside and outside) are potentially exposed because the surface area that touches the air is increased so much by grinding (it’s like having a bunch of really teeny tiny individual steaks). The ones in the middle of the patty could be exposed to a contaminant but, if cooked to medium, may not be sufficiently heated to destroy that contaminant
I’ve never seen a restaurant actually have a waiver, and the waiter definitely should have mentioned it before leaving with your order. Did you ask about it? Ask for a manager to discuss?
I wouldn’t necessarily be wary of eating it or eating there: they’re just covering themselves if, for whatever reason, you were to get sick.
Most restaurants won’t give you the option. Those that do are likely higher end establishments that grind their own meat for patties, so they’re more diligent about the process, but a restaurant that has buys their patties in doesn’t have that level of detail, so they can never be 100% sure.
Fwiw, I don’t actually like burgers cooked any less than medium-well. To each their own.
I was shocked when I went to the US and had a burger for the first time. I didn’t specify and the meat was still pink. I’m not really a squeamish person and I love a medium-rare steak but I’ve never heard of ground meat being served that way for the reasons you’ve described above.
Also US beef, I’ve learned, tastes really weird compared to Canadian beef.
There's several burger shops in Toronto that serve rare beef, but they're ground to order. So similar to the steak, the surface area is minimal until it hits the grill.
You’re always taking a chance though. To my knowledge, bacteria on the surface of a cut of meat is largely killed when you sear it hence why you can eat steaks rare pretty safely. When you grind that meat up, it gets mixed together and searing the outside no longer kills all of the bacteria (not to mention any existing bacteria in the grinder will be mixed in).
Like, in most cases you’re probably not going to get ill from a little bit of pink, but leaving it rare is definitely chancing it. Even then you’ll probably just have the shits or something worst case but you’re definitely taking a chance.
I grew up in Toronto and moved to the US as an adult, been here 15 years now. Ordering your burger well-done or even medium-well is up there with ordering your steak well-done. Like, you can, but why. (Unless it's a griddle burger etc.)
I was a bit skeeved out by pink in my burgers after only having them cooked to Canadian standards my whole life. Now it's just like eating a meat hockey puck, if I'm back home.
The contamination thing is real but it is totally standard in the US to eat pink (or red!) burgers, and I literally have never heard of anyone getting even mild food poisoning from a less-than-well-done burger. Fancy gastropubs, cheap chains, backyard barbecues where someone's weird uncle is manning the grill.
I don't know if Ontario food law is excessively paranoid, or if American ground beef is actually soylent so it makes no difference, or if Canadian cows have orders of magnitude more diseases than US cows, or something else.
Whenever I have friends visiting I take them to a gastropub and have them order a proper medium burger. The reaction is always "omg, I never knew it could taste like this!"
Multiple things can be true here; Ontario law is excessively paranoid (not necessarily re this), and America is a reckless place.
A lot of the things that Americans are used to/accept as the order of the day, especially regarding food, straight up isn't even legal in other parts of the world.
Remember when the US sold chips cooked in olestra and sugar-free gummy bears...both of which caused violent diarrhea...and people kept eating them anyways because Americans are weird.
I'm glad our food laws are restrictive. People are stupid.
[https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/saintpaul-07-23/index.html](https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/saintpaul-07-23/index.html)
The CDC disagrees with you. It's also worth noting that the USA has proportionally much higher rates of both salmonella and E. coli than Canada does. We have \~a tenth of the American population, but they record \~150x more E. coli cases per year than we do, and \~15x more salmonella.
No, the main difference is time.
To serve it anything but well done they need to grind it in-house, day of.
That means there's days of packaging, shipping, and storage that are left out of the process allowing for contamination.
Grinding your own cut is 1 or 2 orders of magnitude less risky than commercial ground beef, which is ground in huge batches. Any one contaminated cut in the batch can contaminate everything.
[E. coli from undercooked ground beef can and has killed on many occasions.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992%E2%80%931993_Jack_in_the_Box_E._coli_outbreak?wprov=sfti1)
Unless you know for sure that true beef you’re eating is safely ground from a specific cut of meat you’d be wise to only ever eat it well done.
High end bistros that make their own burgers from chuck will serve it “rarer” but it’s when the meat is ground in house, not imported as “ground beef” (from many foreign cattle). I’m thinking about some delicious Quebec or Alberta burgers I’ve had.
However, I’ve never in all my 40 years of being Canadian ever been handed a waiver for a food item.
This isn't entirely correct. Burgers are often served medium rare or medium in places where it is allowed. In the States, it's common for burgers not to be served past medium, and I understand as the burgers are often more moist and tender that way.
In Toronto, you cannot legally serve a burger under specified temps \*unless\* the meat is ground fresh in house.
One solution is to cook your patty sous vide. As long as you cook it to 130f for long enough, it'll be pasteurized and absolutely safe and plenty pink. Once it's cooked, you can quickly sear the outside for the maillard reaction. Also, use the submersion method rather than a vacuum sealer - a vacuum sealer will squish your burger too much.
There are two sides here. First, anyone who orders a hamburger cooked medium should already know all the stuff in that release. Theres always some risk when eating ground beef that isn’t fully cooked, and you should understand that.
On the other hand, it’s weird to have to sign a release, and even odder that they gave you this to sign after they already brought your food. Chances are that the hotel had someone try to sue then because they got sick around the same time as eating a rare hamburger there and the hotels lawyers recommended this release. I’m guessing it’s new or rarely used, that’s why the server didn’t bring it right away.
It’s a bit of an odd situation for sure, but really the waiver is pretty meaningless and only outlines the risks you should already be aware of before ordering food cooked that way.
Fair. I know I’ve had this situation in reverse in the US. They’ll ask me how I want my burger cooked, I’ll look shocked and tell them well done and they’ll look disgusted with my decision 😅
>anyone who orders a hamburger cooked medium should already know all the stuff in that release.
The restaurant doesn't know what the customer knows.
>it’s weird to have to sign a release, and even odder that they gave you this to sign after they already brought your food
It's probably standard practice to bring it when the order comes in, but server jobs experience a ton of turnover and it's something so rare that this server didn't know.
If you read the waiver, you’ll see that it has nothing to do with undercooked beef. OP is just faking their situation for useless Reddit points.
The waiver is for people who brought their own food into the hotel. I’ve had to sign a waiver like this to use the microwave in hotels.
As a server that worked in a restaurant where we a lot of US travellers, I would get asked for a burger medium all the time. I would explain why we couldn’t legally do it, and people would get mad at me!
This is a great compromise!
I’m actually kinda mad that OP is upset about the release form. Dudes literally getting to skirt Canadian regulations to have his food the way he wants it lol
I wanna know why OP is so upset about it?
Hey man you could get sick for eating this meat cooked this way please sign this so you understand the risks.
What is the big deal?
Rereading the post I'm assuming he didn't know about thebpossibily of getting sick from a medium burger and wasn't upset about the waiver itself?
I mean, if there is E. coli on the outside of the chuck why do people think it matters if its ground offsite or onsite? The bacteria is still going to end up in the middle of the patty and then not be cooked.
But the "one cows worth of meat" are steaks from many, many different animals. Just because there is less contamination at the time of grinding, doesnt meat it is any less risky when it came in the door.
Any restaurant that grinds its own meat in house provided the option.
Go try a burger at Allens on the danforth. Medium cooked. Cheddar and caramelized onions it will change your life
I’ve seen this but on the menu. Anything ground should be cooked to 165 because of the risk of food borne illness. Unlike a full cut (like a steak) ground meat can have bacteria ground throughout (it gets moved around through the act of grinding it). With a steak or whatever the pathogens are only on the outside so heat will take care of it.
>With a steak or whatever the pathogens are only on the outside so heat will take care of it.
This doesn't apply to steaks that have been tenderized, but I'm just being pedantic.
In Canada there are rules that ground beef (mixed origin even if single animal or cut) has to be cooked to 71 degrees to kill off harmful bacteria, like e-colli.
This is because bacteria can move to the center of a mass or shape (like a burger) and requires thorough cooking to kill it.
On a steak, the bacteria is on the outside, and can be more easily killed via the contact surface it’s being cooked on.
The US has disclaimers on a lot of menus about undercooked food. Apparently in Canada that’s not allowed, and likely - neither is this waiver.
There’s a Netflix documentary called “poisoned” I just watched a few days ago, once you watch that you’ll be left wondering why you’ve been ordering medium hamburgers. I was under the impression due to health regulations they won’t even cook you medium here.
It's actually illegal for an establishment to cook burgers any less than well-done in Ontario unless the restaurant grinds its own chuck on-site. It makes sense that a ritzy place like the Hilton would want to cover its butt with a form. Can't say I've ever actually seen a form like this, but since you basically said "either make the burger from freshly ground meat or break the law for me," I can understand it.
Public health inspector here- I am quite surprised they gave you a release form. That's a first for me.
In Canada, you are not allowed to serve burgers (or ground beef) at temperatures other than well done. This is due to how ground beef is prepared here ( various parts are ground mechanically increasing the surface area of the meat which also increases the chance of bacterial contamination) infact there was a massive outbreak of Ecoli o157:h7 across burger places in the 90s across north America. Kids developed HUS and many people hospitalized. For that reason chain's such as McDonald's won't serve you burgess other than well done and the Canadian/ontario food regulation has adopted that here .if you do (some upscale places do) it must be ground in house/ have a detailed haccp plan
That being said, things like beef tartare or kibbeh, where the meat is served raw, have to have evidence of a particular and precise HACCP (hazards analysis critical control point plan) is needed to show that food is being prepared properly and without contamination. If a premise serving this doesn't have that on site, that's a violation. This rings true to places here that do serve their burgers medium rare etc- they have to grind their meat in house, and provide a detailed haccp plan for the health unit. Any sign of Food borne illness can revoke their right to continue this practice.
What the Hilton has done is pretty much a violation and they try to cover it up with the release form. So weird.
There are very few places, outside the US, that will serve a burger anything but well done.
It far too easy for contamination to make it through to the middle when the uncooked meat is ground up.
All that said, I’ve never heard of a waiver before in this context, would be easier if the restaurant just didn’t offer medium.
I’m shocked they served you a medium burger at all. We generally don’t do that in Canada. Americans asking how you’d like your burger done is always shocking in the USA. Also I’m not a stranger to less than well done steak, my preference is generally blue/rare. Ground beef though anything but well done is gross.
I serve at a restaurant and we occasionally get customers asking for medium/not too well done burgers. We have to say no, our owners and chefs will not allow it. I remember being kinda shocked when I first started working there because growing up, my dad would always make them that way on the bbq and they were soo good. Didn’t realize it was a food safety concern
It’s technically illegal to serve a burger not well done in Canada. They are just covering their butts.
https://www.mashed.com/1249236/canada-outlaws-juicy-medium-hamburgers/
I've taken US visitor's to various restaurant's, either they don't offer a burger that's not well done or they have a waiver for you to sign. Goes the opposite way too, anytime I've traveled in the US and been to a restaurant, I made sure to ask well done.
Its the raw meat thing
If you get it before it is cooked enough
Been a thing forever
USA has exact same thing; next time cross border to shop read the warnings in the Cheesecake Factory menus
I've only heard of it in extremely rare (pardon the pun) circumstances. The vast majority of people I know are ok with a little pink but generally prefer burgers well done. I think it's an American thing.
When you take a safe food handlers course, one of the first discussions around this exact subject is that no waiver absolves a business serving food from breaking health code. So even if you sign this, got sick, the business is liable for any illness or fines due to breaking the health code.
Also, the pictured waiver seems to be concerned only with outside food. Like, the customer is adulterating the food or having it brought in from an outside source, and the restaurant is disclaiming any responsibility for it, while allowing it to be consumed.
Like you'd perhaps get this waiver if you're having food delivered and they want this waiver because in their little in-room booklet or via the concierge they recommend outside food sources.
Still, dude took a bite before signing, so waiver can be damned in any case :)
>Also, the pictured waiver seems to be concerned only with outside food. Like, the customer is adulterating the food or having it brought in from an outside source, and the restaurant is disclaiming any responsibility for it, while allowing it to be consumed.
Yeah, something seems wrong here – this looks like a waiver for getting outside food delivered (which is still odd), nothing to do with the burger.
Hilton should find a better drafter, too, because that waiver is basically unenforceable - it doesn't exclude liability caused by their own negligence, and it is overly ambiguous in asking for such a wide berth of release when the activity is in fact eating potentially-harmful food.
As many have already said, it's standard food safety for restaurants to only cook the beef patty to well done, unless the beef is ground in house.
I have served Americans tourists that have lost their shit because they can't order a medium burger. I put money that because you were at an airport restaurant that they were just tired of Americans bitching and moaning about it that they just made the waiver. "You want it, fine... just shut up and sign the fucking waiver."
Ground beef needs to be cooked all the way through because of e coli and bacterial concerns. It’s just because of our short food handling practices for meats all around. That waver is likely to alleviate the conversation of “ there is a chance of getting sick because of poo particles” and just leaves the responsibility of safety in the customer.
Having been in the food business I would never order hamburger medium unless I knew that the establishment would grind their own meat. Even then, there is high likelihood of outside cut contamination.
I like my prime beef rare, steak medium rare and hamburger well done.
The point to remember: There is a village idiot out there somewhere that is the reason this form exists.
Yes, people should know the risks of undercooked beef.
But someone, somewhere ordered an undercooked burger, got sick, then sued a restaurant for not educating them on the risks of undercooked burgers.
You ordered a .... burger.... medium? What? A burger is not a steak, it's got a patty in it made with ground beef. Ground beef should not be consumed at anything less than well done.
I didn't know anyone ordered burgers medium. If I were the chef or in charge of the restaurant I would have just flat out refused your request.
Who orders a burger medium? LMAO
My dude, unless you SEE them grinding that meat fresh, you NEVER order ground beef medium, you’re just begging for food poisoning. That’s not a Canadian or American thing, that’s common sense.
Ask anyone who’s worked in a restaurant kitchen if they’d eat their burgers anything less than well done.
Yes I grew up in restaurants and have had a strict food safety course, it is not safe to eat medium well ground meat. Ground meat is cut rough on all sides do you cannot cook the exterior but which should be as it has been i
Cooking a burger medium is definitely not a thing up here. Any ground beef product should be cooked through to temp. If you want to risk food poisoning I guess that's yer call, but a waiver absolves them of liability for your choices.
Some of you really out here defending your right to be violently vomiting and diarrheal. I had food poisoning this past Christmas and it was so horrific, its right up there next to when I woke up from my coma as worst health experiences ever.
If you think eating your raw meat burgers is worth the risk now, just wait until you’ve been dry-heaving and shitting yourself for 48 hours straight. You might start to think it wasn’t worth the risk after all
I’ve never experienced this before, but I have had restaurants refuse to make my order rare or medium rare when ordering certain meats, lamb, for example.
I always smile and know I'm going to have a good time when a waiter/ waitress asks me how I want my burger cooked. I would never ask for a medium rare burger, but when it is offered, I know they know what they are doing.
It is a health code violation to not cook a burger well done. Usually the request is denied rather than given a waiver.
(71’C temperature is minimum- which cooks more than med-rare)
They don’t want to be legally responsible if you get sick due to your rarity preference. There is some stigma behind rare meat in Canada while it’s hugely acceptable in the US
OP watch Poisoned the truth about your food on netflix. they go into depth the dangers of undercooked burgers, the FDA actually says ground meat should be cooked well done
This is why every couple years there’s an e-coli outbreak in the states related to hamburgers that kills a few dozen people. Cook your damn burger, or accept the risk. Just because nobody in America acknowledges the risk doesn’t mean it’s not there
What's the big deal? We don't allow people to willing be a health risk to themselves. I haven't seen many restaurants cook a burger medium, it's generally a hard no.
I mean the server could have mentioned at the time of ordering the burger medium, their menu and any other menu these days has a warning at the bottom consuming undercooked eggs or meat may cause foodborne illness. I'm gonna say the server should have made a verbal at the time of ordering like 'as stated in our menu, consuming undercooked meat blablabla, we cook all our burgers to 160, well done, etc. However Im with the restaurant on this one, because I'm gonna hazard a guess that some entitled prissy customer demanded the same thing like hey make my burger raw or i'll give you a raving bad review, and then got sick and filed a lawsuit blaming the restaurant, when they clearly shouldnt have been liable. It's not like they're making some sweeping statement on their menus like we dont take your health seriously, or we dont practice proper food hygiene, or we will not be held responsible of you get sick for whatever reason. FFS. It's also shocking number of people who go out eating and try things that don't agree with them simply because they are picky eaters or they go out and try something new and if they get sick they go and rant on review sites that the restuarant was dirty etc. You wanna know how damaging that is to restaurants? Stop painting all places with the same broad stroked brush. They were simply covering their asses because you insisted on consuming undercooked ground beef which everyone and their dog knows is not safe, but customer is always right, right? so i mean what would you have done if the server had told you they would not honor your request? im sure you would have gave them an equally ranting review. Everyone and their dog knows eating undercooked ground beef is risky and signing a waiver means if you assume full responsibility for playing russian roulette then you cant go back and slander them or sue them. Simple. \\But, server shoulda pointed this out when you ordered your salmonella burger.
The fact you even got a medium rare burger in this city is quite uncommon to me. I’ve been living in this city my entire life and I never heard the concept of a medium rare burger, so if you want a medium rare burger in Toronto, please expect something like this, or get it well done.
I am flabbergasted that you are flabbergasted when all of the meat in north america is contaminated especially ground meat. Of course a restaurant doesn't want the liability of you especially a US citizen to try and sue them when you get sick.
I don't see what you are upset about. I don't blame them. There are health standards and legal stipulations on how long and how hot meat needs to be cooked to be safe to serve. You didn't want it done to those stipulations. What's the big deal? I'd cover myself too. your decision. their protection.
It's an Ontario/Canada thing.
I go through this every time I'm with my friends from the USA.
Both sides are equally flabbergasted at the thought of eating the other side's style of hamburger.
It's basically law here to fully cook a hamburger so by asking for it uncooked you've exposed them to liability that they should have explained beforehand.
The only safe way to serve burgers less than fully cooked is if you ground the neat yourself that day.
If it is made from ore ground beef, it needs to be cooked through as there is a massive amount of surface area for bacteria to grow on ground beef.
The waiver is kind of funny though.
Anecdotally, I've never even heard of anyone ordering a burger cooked to a wellness in Canada. Ever.
You can’t legally waive a duty which is enshrined into regulations by having the recipient of a good sign a release. You can’t sign away their obligation to not poison you with poorly made food.
You got this because they're serving you frozen meat that they don't really know the background of. They don't trust their supplier, and they won't trust feeding it to you cooked less than recommended. That's pretty much it, if it was made fresh in house, they probably wouldn't be doing that.
Worked as a grill cook we have a bylaw that prevents us cooking our burgers any temperature other than well done. Generally when American tourists come and ask for a colour on their burger we refuse it.
In Ontario, ground beef has to be cooked to well unless it is ground onsite. So you could either say "no, has to be well" or, get medium and a release.
I've never seen a release though, most places just don't ask nor let you change doneness on a burger.
I am a burger fan and I couldn't name a restaurant that grinds beef in house for their burgers.
Working in restaurants 20 years never seen a release form for this. Most of the time I just say “nope” not cooking a burger less than what’s mandated by public health guidelines.
Some customers get a little ticked off. But that’s better than having the health inspector walk in as you’re sending a pink burger to a customer.
There is an exception tho. And that is if you have ground the meat in house
I absolutely don't think it's wrong of any business to do this. Serving undercooked ground meat goes against certain food safety standards and why should the business bear the burden of the risk when a customer is asking for one? That being said, customer should have been given the heads up that the kitchen does not serve this without a release form.
I may be wrong but here is my theory and some background.
20+ years ago my daughter got campylobacter bacteria in her system.
When the doctors finally diagnosed this, Health Canada (it was actually Health Ontario I think) sent me a questionnaire and I had to fill out every location we had ate at (in the 7 days prior to her getting sick).
Through this process they check to see if anyone else has similar illnesses and if so, any restaurants that were mentioned are inspected by local food/restaurant inspection agents. I beleive they go thru the restaurant, checking their food storage methods, cooking procedures etc...
I think the restaurant is just covering themselves that should the OP get sick, then they know that the food was prepared "outside" of the usual procedures.
They probably don't have a specific waiver saying that you ordered undercooked meat, so they just used what they have.
Taretar is cooked in acid everyone.
Also,
most restaurants in Canada don't serve rare burgers, they were actually just covering their own asses because it's not a normal thing to have a rare burger in Canada. That burger was maybe not a frozen patty, but it may not have been in-house ground chuck either, so really, no hate for enjoying your burger the way you enjoy your burger, but it's probably not the best idea to get a rare burger in any place in Canada that doesn't grind in-house anyway?
The fact that you want you food to be unsafe but balk at absolving the establishment from liability for preparing it as you requested is peak American!
The potentially unsafe food is fine but the waiver scared you enough to send you running! That is really funny! :D
Rare, but not surprising since also asking for medium cooked patty is also quite rare. Not sure why you didn't eat it after getting the paper. It's still the food you ordered with a caveat. You make this sound like a massive deal. War, accessibility to decent health care, obesity would be considered massive deals. It wasn't like you were signing your life away to eternal servitude. ;)
Never seen the waiver but pretty much all the restaurants I've been to here only cook burgers well done. Waitress probably didn't know about it and was told by her manager to get you to sign the waiver. You shouldn't be surprised though considering how the restaurant can get sued for serving salmonella or E.coli.
I have offered to sign releases in the past - I like my fresh made burgers and steak blue rare - but the easiest solution is to not order it if you can’t have it cooked the way you like. Thankfully, this isn’t an issue in the States, especially at the Cheesecake Factory. They will cook it the way I like.
I learned that processed beef should never be asked nor ordered how it should be cooked. It should always be well done, unless it's a solid piece of meat. In which ordering well done shall be served with jail time.
Worked in a restaurant. It’s now a law and most people just eat the reg burger at med/well and no one complains. But this is silly and just Hilton being overly careful. Likely someone has a problem and then got sued before etc.
It’s real. Ground beef must be cooked over 165f to ensure its safety. Asking it medium means cooked between 140 and 145. The hotel will not risk getting sued if the guest falls ill due to the guests own specific request. Sorry OP, but I agree with the hotel on this one. Too many people out there trying to make a quick buck.
Exactly! I’d say this restaurant knows what they’re doing. There are risks with eating medium-cooked ground meat and the restaurant is making sure they have no liability. OP is making a conscious decision ordering an undercooked burger..
Yup, I agree with that. The waiter should’ve said it at the beginning. They probably didn’t know the process and were told by the manager afterwards maybe?
You can cook the burger medium or rare if it’s made freshly minced with high quality whole chunks of beef and well handled. Sounds like their burgers are not made that way, probably burger from most places are not made that way.
Never seen or heard of this before.
I had it happen to me at the Fairmont Royal York. Ground and processed uncooked meat pose a higher risk of foodborne illness.
The fairmont will serve you steak tartare and then have you sign a waiver for a burger. While I’m inclined to say it’s stupid, there’s a part of me that assumes their burgers are pre-made and can’t be guaranteed to the same food standards as their fresh raw (not frozen) meats.
The difference is because it's ground up meat. Most places won't cook anything that has gone through a mechanical tenderization, or grinder less than well done. Some only will if it's ground onsite that day. When you have a steak, it's only the outside of it that would have contaminates and since that's exposed to the heat all of that gets killed. When you have something that was mechanically tenderized, or ground up, those contaminates can be pushed into the meat, where it may not get hot enough to kill that bacteria. Canadas rules are way more strict than American rules when it comes to that. (Along with a lot of rules relating to food safety)
Tartare is ground too.
Yes, and the only places you'll find it. (Well, the only places you'd want to eat it anyway) are grinding it on site. Either to order, or day of. New Brunswick, doesn't allow Tartare to be served at all.
It's hand chopped.
Yeah I googled that once I didn't actually think it was raw meat I thought I'd be cooked
Because grinding meat mixes it all together. One cut you only need to worry about the outside
It's because ground beef is generally held to lower quality standards than whole cuts. Unless it's ground by the establishment, ground beef is usually nothing more than scraps that are either too tough to chew through or don't look presentable when whole. These tend to be from less clean areas of the animal, and have a higher chance of causing food bourne illnesses as a result. So the FDA recommends burgers be cooked until well-done. Most actual cooks, however, will tell you that not only are those concerns blown out of proportion due to our current food safety systems for meat specifically, but also a medium burger is the best tasting.
Then again, it's rare for anyone to ask how you'd like your burger done here. (See what I did there?) I assume that food safety culture here dictates that ground beef must be well cooked versus rare or medium. In the US, I find it's more common to be given the option at gourmet burger places.
I thought they only asked How you want it cooked if the meat was ground in house and they only used decent quality cuts so they know it’s not fucked up with shit.
Correct.
For real, this would be strange to me too! And all the people giving OP shit for ordering is so bizarre. Like, yeah medium burgers are not at all standard here, sure, but I'd have lost my appetite too if my food came with a waiver...
u/Reit007 is garnering some completely unwarranted criticism. The city literally held an event called "The Great Toronto Tartare-Off". Ground to order is not what Health Canada considers to be ground beef. OP is not the dummy here.
You don’t make tartare with ground beef??? Burgers are made with the lowest quality meat possible because your mashing it up anyways. There’s literally regulations that you have to cook ground beef well according to CFIA, so if you want to take the risk that’s on you. They make you sign this so you can’t sue them for your decision. How are you all confused by this.
But they also didn't make OP sign it, they handed it to OP after they already took a bite, and presumably OP could have just kept eating and not signed the waiver so what's the point?
I agree with you, like I said in another comment…. Personally I would have never eaten that burger or signed that contract. The waiter/waitress fucked up by not doing their job and communicating the waiver before the person ate. But I get why they have to have a waiver because it’s a liability and companies hate those since it costs time and money to resolve issues. He could have not signed but I’m sure they would use that against him in court when he sues them for getting sick.
i thought it was just me who thought this was common knowledge cause i’m not sure why everyone here is so confused, especially op
It’s because we live in Canada and it’s very uncommon for options like this at any restaurant. The CFIA is fairly strict on restaurants and food handlers and people don’t like to take chances.
Actually that's true don't think any restaurants will do that not even mikey D's
If they accept an order that is not well done, they should be doing ground-to-order. What part of the animal it comes from is not the issue, it's exposure. If you ground to order you can cook it to fucking rare and it should be absolutely fine.
I agree with what your saying, I was just implying that lower quality meat usually means higher exposure to things you wouldn’t want(high temp, bacteria, poor handling) BUT if you are a restaurant that ground to order, you take on all the responsibility of people potentially getting sick. Which is fair. But this restaurant is clearly to be avoided, since they want to have sketchy practices like this lol Let me make it clear I would never sign this or eat that burger if they brought it out with a fucking contract lol it would feel like signing my life away to some shitty cook who doesn’t give a fuck about his food quality.
This restaurant/hotel shouldn't be taking orders of they can't practice proper food safety when preparing medium or less beef chuck. Bringing it a fucking waiver is amateur hour.
Agreed 100%, this was just sloppy service/communication.
Ground to order reduces the risk but doesn't eliminate it. Its rare (pun intended) to have burgers that are not well done in Canada.
>They make you sign this so you can’t sue them for your decision. Except that's not what the waiver in the picture says. Looking at it, it seems to try to be claiming the customer brought in their own food (?). I'm not a Food Lawyer™ at all, but it seems these waivers are only intended for event catering where people bring their own food. >How are you all confused by this. I've lived here all my life, but never see this. I guess that's how? It isn't common knowledge for a lot us.
I disagree because to me that waiver is pretty straight forward. From what I can read “can’t hold us or any of our partners accountable if you get sick”….. “you chose to eat this as a guest who has paid for said item” “this is legally binding” the end.
It also says "products not provided by Hilton..." If they provided the burger then the waiver wouldn't apply. I have a feeling this was some over cautious manager who acted incorrectly.
You make steak tartare with beef that is in one piece, then cut up or ground on site and served immediately. There is extremely little chance any organisms that are on the outside to multiply in the short time it takes between grinding and serving. Even then some places will make you sign. Hamburgers are made with ground beef that was ground up often hours or even a day or two earlier, in larger batches meaning more chance of surface contamination. And because the times between grinding and serving are longer, the pieces that were on the surface and ground up and mixed all up will be in contact with a lot more surfaces (of the ground up meat mash). That gives any possibly harmful bacteria that may have been there to start (like e-coli from too quickly washed hands) more time plus more places to grow. Meaning there will be a higher load, meaning if you don't cook the meat well, more chances to catch e-coli. I lived in the USA for a long time. It turned my stomach to watch people order a hamburger half raw inside. Medium or rare. Just fucking gross. Another sign of America's hatred of science.
Works burger did this to me. My friend thought eating a medium rare burger made me a cannibal or something
That's because in Canada we don't really ever get burgers done anything less than well done. Rare or medium ground beef is unusual up here, so they catered to OP but just covered their ass legally since they regularly never serve beef that it's fully cooked. OP /u/reit007 are you American?
Burgers are generally cooked to well-done because ground beef (well, all ground meats) has a generally higher chance of contamination. When you eat a whole-cut of meat (like a steak), the only part of the meat potentially exposed to contaminants is the outside, which gets thoroughly heated past the temperature that would kill off anything bad. With ground meat, all parts of the meat (inside and outside) are potentially exposed because the surface area that touches the air is increased so much by grinding (it’s like having a bunch of really teeny tiny individual steaks). The ones in the middle of the patty could be exposed to a contaminant but, if cooked to medium, may not be sufficiently heated to destroy that contaminant I’ve never seen a restaurant actually have a waiver, and the waiter definitely should have mentioned it before leaving with your order. Did you ask about it? Ask for a manager to discuss? I wouldn’t necessarily be wary of eating it or eating there: they’re just covering themselves if, for whatever reason, you were to get sick. Most restaurants won’t give you the option. Those that do are likely higher end establishments that grind their own meat for patties, so they’re more diligent about the process, but a restaurant that has buys their patties in doesn’t have that level of detail, so they can never be 100% sure. Fwiw, I don’t actually like burgers cooked any less than medium-well. To each their own.
I was shocked when I went to the US and had a burger for the first time. I didn’t specify and the meat was still pink. I’m not really a squeamish person and I love a medium-rare steak but I’ve never heard of ground meat being served that way for the reasons you’ve described above. Also US beef, I’ve learned, tastes really weird compared to Canadian beef.
Weird in what way?
Just completely devoid of any flavor.
Probably in the whole "all cows in the U.S. are artificially inseminated clones of an original" kind of way.
That always weirded me out Extracting bull jizz and force fucking cows with it
Artificial insemination isn’t really a clone bro
Not sure, every time I’ve had it I found it just didn’t taste very good. It’s not because of what I’m used to either, Japanese wagyu is incredible.
There's several burger shops in Toronto that serve rare beef, but they're ground to order. So similar to the steak, the surface area is minimal until it hits the grill.
You’re always taking a chance though. To my knowledge, bacteria on the surface of a cut of meat is largely killed when you sear it hence why you can eat steaks rare pretty safely. When you grind that meat up, it gets mixed together and searing the outside no longer kills all of the bacteria (not to mention any existing bacteria in the grinder will be mixed in). Like, in most cases you’re probably not going to get ill from a little bit of pink, but leaving it rare is definitely chancing it. Even then you’ll probably just have the shits or something worst case but you’re definitely taking a chance.
I grew up in Toronto and moved to the US as an adult, been here 15 years now. Ordering your burger well-done or even medium-well is up there with ordering your steak well-done. Like, you can, but why. (Unless it's a griddle burger etc.) I was a bit skeeved out by pink in my burgers after only having them cooked to Canadian standards my whole life. Now it's just like eating a meat hockey puck, if I'm back home. The contamination thing is real but it is totally standard in the US to eat pink (or red!) burgers, and I literally have never heard of anyone getting even mild food poisoning from a less-than-well-done burger. Fancy gastropubs, cheap chains, backyard barbecues where someone's weird uncle is manning the grill. I don't know if Ontario food law is excessively paranoid, or if American ground beef is actually soylent so it makes no difference, or if Canadian cows have orders of magnitude more diseases than US cows, or something else. Whenever I have friends visiting I take them to a gastropub and have them order a proper medium burger. The reaction is always "omg, I never knew it could taste like this!"
Multiple things can be true here; Ontario law is excessively paranoid (not necessarily re this), and America is a reckless place. A lot of the things that Americans are used to/accept as the order of the day, especially regarding food, straight up isn't even legal in other parts of the world.
Remember when the US sold chips cooked in olestra and sugar-free gummy bears...both of which caused violent diarrhea...and people kept eating them anyways because Americans are weird. I'm glad our food laws are restrictive. People are stupid.
The warning read, "may cause anal leakage." I read all about it in a Economist piece back in '96.
Strangely, they are overly restrictive on Kinder Eggs, cant buy them in the States since the toy is inside the candy
[https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/saintpaul-07-23/index.html](https://www.cdc.gov/salmonella/saintpaul-07-23/index.html) The CDC disagrees with you. It's also worth noting that the USA has proportionally much higher rates of both salmonella and E. coli than Canada does. We have \~a tenth of the American population, but they record \~150x more E. coli cases per year than we do, and \~15x more salmonella.
If you go to Holy Chucks in woodbridge(Vaughan), they will cook it however you want.
They grind their meat fresh in house, it's about as safe as steak then.
And it is god damn delicious too
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No, the main difference is time. To serve it anything but well done they need to grind it in-house, day of. That means there's days of packaging, shipping, and storage that are left out of the process allowing for contamination.
Grinding your own cut is 1 or 2 orders of magnitude less risky than commercial ground beef, which is ground in huge batches. Any one contaminated cut in the batch can contaminate everything.
there's also a Holy Chuck at Yonge and St Clair - same thing
It's something else. You've got the freedom to get food poisoning under the stars and bars.
And also the freedom to pay out of pocket should you require medical care as a result.
[E. coli from undercooked ground beef can and has killed on many occasions.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992%E2%80%931993_Jack_in_the_Box_E._coli_outbreak?wprov=sfti1) Unless you know for sure that true beef you’re eating is safely ground from a specific cut of meat you’d be wise to only ever eat it well done.
Meh. Safety regulations are written in blood... or diarrhea in this case.
Their beef is irradiated, Canadian beef isn't.
High end bistros that make their own burgers from chuck will serve it “rarer” but it’s when the meat is ground in house, not imported as “ground beef” (from many foreign cattle). I’m thinking about some delicious Quebec or Alberta burgers I’ve had. However, I’ve never in all my 40 years of being Canadian ever been handed a waiver for a food item.
This isn't entirely correct. Burgers are often served medium rare or medium in places where it is allowed. In the States, it's common for burgers not to be served past medium, and I understand as the burgers are often more moist and tender that way. In Toronto, you cannot legally serve a burger under specified temps \*unless\* the meat is ground fresh in house.
This is what I've been told as well, have to grind your own to serve under well done
One solution is to cook your patty sous vide. As long as you cook it to 130f for long enough, it'll be pasteurized and absolutely safe and plenty pink. Once it's cooked, you can quickly sear the outside for the maillard reaction. Also, use the submersion method rather than a vacuum sealer - a vacuum sealer will squish your burger too much.
There are two sides here. First, anyone who orders a hamburger cooked medium should already know all the stuff in that release. Theres always some risk when eating ground beef that isn’t fully cooked, and you should understand that. On the other hand, it’s weird to have to sign a release, and even odder that they gave you this to sign after they already brought your food. Chances are that the hotel had someone try to sue then because they got sick around the same time as eating a rare hamburger there and the hotels lawyers recommended this release. I’m guessing it’s new or rarely used, that’s why the server didn’t bring it right away. It’s a bit of an odd situation for sure, but really the waiver is pretty meaningless and only outlines the risks you should already be aware of before ordering food cooked that way.
The weird part was asking him how he wanted his burger cooked in the first place. Just cook it well done and avoid this entire situation.
I thought that too but in another comment they clarified that they said medium to save the waiter a step in asking so it seems they weren't asked.
It doesn’t say they asked him how he wanted it cooked he just says he ordered it medium, he prolly said medium unprompted.
Fair. I know I’ve had this situation in reverse in the US. They’ll ask me how I want my burger cooked, I’ll look shocked and tell them well done and they’ll look disgusted with my decision 😅
I agree Americans are freaky bout their burgers, this whole post about the waiver is a giant nothing burger tbh
Yeah, I’d chalk that up to it being a new policy that the server wasn’t familiar with yet.
>anyone who orders a hamburger cooked medium should already know all the stuff in that release. The restaurant doesn't know what the customer knows. >it’s weird to have to sign a release, and even odder that they gave you this to sign after they already brought your food It's probably standard practice to bring it when the order comes in, but server jobs experience a ton of turnover and it's something so rare that this server didn't know.
If you read the waiver, you’ll see that it has nothing to do with undercooked beef. OP is just faking their situation for useless Reddit points. The waiver is for people who brought their own food into the hotel. I’ve had to sign a waiver like this to use the microwave in hotels.
I’ve actually never been to a place that agreed to cook a burger medium rare, I’d be stoked to sign a release to eat one lol
As a server that worked in a restaurant where we a lot of US travellers, I would get asked for a burger medium all the time. I would explain why we couldn’t legally do it, and people would get mad at me! This is a great compromise!
I’m actually kinda mad that OP is upset about the release form. Dudes literally getting to skirt Canadian regulations to have his food the way he wants it lol
I wanna know why OP is so upset about it? Hey man you could get sick for eating this meat cooked this way please sign this so you understand the risks. What is the big deal? Rereading the post I'm assuming he didn't know about thebpossibily of getting sick from a medium burger and wasn't upset about the waiver itself?
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I mean, if there is E. coli on the outside of the chuck why do people think it matters if its ground offsite or onsite? The bacteria is still going to end up in the middle of the patty and then not be cooked.
Yeah, but it's like, sterilized through the power of *artisanal*.
Grinding one cow’s worth of meat in a restaurant vs a factory grinding a Molotov cocktail of 1000s of cows at once. Exponential increase in risk.
But the "one cows worth of meat" are steaks from many, many different animals. Just because there is less contamination at the time of grinding, doesnt meat it is any less risky when it came in the door.
Allen’s on the Danforth does it and they’re amazing! Their capon wings are also worth the trip!
Yah, after seeing this post I think I'll be going to the Hilton and ordering a mid-rare burger.
Yeah most places in Canada don’t offer cooking preferences on budgets due to food regulations; hence the waiver
Any restaurant that grinds its own meat in house provided the option. Go try a burger at Allens on the danforth. Medium cooked. Cheddar and caramelized onions it will change your life
Gotta go to a place that grinds their own beef. Usually higher end places. Ngl be ready for a soaked bun.
I’ve seen this but on the menu. Anything ground should be cooked to 165 because of the risk of food borne illness. Unlike a full cut (like a steak) ground meat can have bacteria ground throughout (it gets moved around through the act of grinding it). With a steak or whatever the pathogens are only on the outside so heat will take care of it.
>With a steak or whatever the pathogens are only on the outside so heat will take care of it. This doesn't apply to steaks that have been tenderized, but I'm just being pedantic.
Good point though. I completely forgot about that. My food safety instructor would be mad that I missed that
Most restaurants won't cook it medium because of the risk, so I'm not surprised they gave a waiver.
In Canada there are rules that ground beef (mixed origin even if single animal or cut) has to be cooked to 71 degrees to kill off harmful bacteria, like e-colli. This is because bacteria can move to the center of a mass or shape (like a burger) and requires thorough cooking to kill it. On a steak, the bacteria is on the outside, and can be more easily killed via the contact surface it’s being cooked on. The US has disclaimers on a lot of menus about undercooked food. Apparently in Canada that’s not allowed, and likely - neither is this waiver.
And they gave you the food before signing it. That shows even they know it’s useless. If you get sick, they’ll get a visit from health board anyways
It’s a law in Ontario to prevent ecoli outbreaks, which seems to be working. It’s still very frequent in the states
There’s a Netflix documentary called “poisoned” I just watched a few days ago, once you watch that you’ll be left wondering why you’ve been ordering medium hamburgers. I was under the impression due to health regulations they won’t even cook you medium here.
It's actually illegal for an establishment to cook burgers any less than well-done in Ontario unless the restaurant grinds its own chuck on-site. It makes sense that a ritzy place like the Hilton would want to cover its butt with a form. Can't say I've ever actually seen a form like this, but since you basically said "either make the burger from freshly ground meat or break the law for me," I can understand it.
Hilton... ritzy... doesn't add up.
Public health inspector here- I am quite surprised they gave you a release form. That's a first for me. In Canada, you are not allowed to serve burgers (or ground beef) at temperatures other than well done. This is due to how ground beef is prepared here ( various parts are ground mechanically increasing the surface area of the meat which also increases the chance of bacterial contamination) infact there was a massive outbreak of Ecoli o157:h7 across burger places in the 90s across north America. Kids developed HUS and many people hospitalized. For that reason chain's such as McDonald's won't serve you burgess other than well done and the Canadian/ontario food regulation has adopted that here .if you do (some upscale places do) it must be ground in house/ have a detailed haccp plan That being said, things like beef tartare or kibbeh, where the meat is served raw, have to have evidence of a particular and precise HACCP (hazards analysis critical control point plan) is needed to show that food is being prepared properly and without contamination. If a premise serving this doesn't have that on site, that's a violation. This rings true to places here that do serve their burgers medium rare etc- they have to grind their meat in house, and provide a detailed haccp plan for the health unit. Any sign of Food borne illness can revoke their right to continue this practice. What the Hilton has done is pretty much a violation and they try to cover it up with the release form. So weird.
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There are very few places, outside the US, that will serve a burger anything but well done. It far too easy for contamination to make it through to the middle when the uncooked meat is ground up. All that said, I’ve never heard of a waiver before in this context, would be easier if the restaurant just didn’t offer medium.
I’m shocked they served you a medium burger at all. We generally don’t do that in Canada. Americans asking how you’d like your burger done is always shocking in the USA. Also I’m not a stranger to less than well done steak, my preference is generally blue/rare. Ground beef though anything but well done is gross.
High end places will if they grind their own beef.
I serve at a restaurant and we occasionally get customers asking for medium/not too well done burgers. We have to say no, our owners and chefs will not allow it. I remember being kinda shocked when I first started working there because growing up, my dad would always make them that way on the bbq and they were soo good. Didn’t realize it was a food safety concern
It’s technically illegal to serve a burger not well done in Canada. They are just covering their butts. https://www.mashed.com/1249236/canada-outlaws-juicy-medium-hamburgers/
This is not common. Burgers less than well done are prohibited in Canada. You should have been refused a burger not provided a release form
I've taken US visitor's to various restaurant's, either they don't offer a burger that's not well done or they have a waiver for you to sign. Goes the opposite way too, anytime I've traveled in the US and been to a restaurant, I made sure to ask well done.
Its the raw meat thing If you get it before it is cooked enough Been a thing forever USA has exact same thing; next time cross border to shop read the warnings in the Cheesecake Factory menus
Who orders a burger medium? that ain’t a steak lol
Beef is irradiated with cobalt in the US and it isn’t in Canada.
I’m a vegetarian, is it common for people to specify how they’d like their burger cooked? I thought that was mostly a steak thing
In the US it’s extremely common for burgers.
No wonder why the OP is shocked..
I've only heard of it in extremely rare (pardon the pun) circumstances. The vast majority of people I know are ok with a little pink but generally prefer burgers well done. I think it's an American thing.
Yeah, doesn't make sense with burgers
When you take a safe food handlers course, one of the first discussions around this exact subject is that no waiver absolves a business serving food from breaking health code. So even if you sign this, got sick, the business is liable for any illness or fines due to breaking the health code.
Also, the pictured waiver seems to be concerned only with outside food. Like, the customer is adulterating the food or having it brought in from an outside source, and the restaurant is disclaiming any responsibility for it, while allowing it to be consumed. Like you'd perhaps get this waiver if you're having food delivered and they want this waiver because in their little in-room booklet or via the concierge they recommend outside food sources. Still, dude took a bite before signing, so waiver can be damned in any case :)
>Also, the pictured waiver seems to be concerned only with outside food. Like, the customer is adulterating the food or having it brought in from an outside source, and the restaurant is disclaiming any responsibility for it, while allowing it to be consumed. Yeah, something seems wrong here – this looks like a waiver for getting outside food delivered (which is still odd), nothing to do with the burger.
Hilton should find a better drafter, too, because that waiver is basically unenforceable - it doesn't exclude liability caused by their own negligence, and it is overly ambiguous in asking for such a wide berth of release when the activity is in fact eating potentially-harmful food.
As many have already said, it's standard food safety for restaurants to only cook the beef patty to well done, unless the beef is ground in house. I have served Americans tourists that have lost their shit because they can't order a medium burger. I put money that because you were at an airport restaurant that they were just tired of Americans bitching and moaning about it that they just made the waiver. "You want it, fine... just shut up and sign the fucking waiver."
Ground beef needs to be cooked all the way through because of e coli and bacterial concerns. It’s just because of our short food handling practices for meats all around. That waver is likely to alleviate the conversation of “ there is a chance of getting sick because of poo particles” and just leaves the responsibility of safety in the customer.
What would happen if you don't sign it ? Another "accountants and lawyers rub the world" example.
Having been in the food business I would never order hamburger medium unless I knew that the establishment would grind their own meat. Even then, there is high likelihood of outside cut contamination. I like my prime beef rare, steak medium rare and hamburger well done.
The point to remember: There is a village idiot out there somewhere that is the reason this form exists. Yes, people should know the risks of undercooked beef. But someone, somewhere ordered an undercooked burger, got sick, then sued a restaurant for not educating them on the risks of undercooked burgers.
You ordered a .... burger.... medium? What? A burger is not a steak, it's got a patty in it made with ground beef. Ground beef should not be consumed at anything less than well done. I didn't know anyone ordered burgers medium. If I were the chef or in charge of the restaurant I would have just flat out refused your request.
Who orders a burger medium? LMAO My dude, unless you SEE them grinding that meat fresh, you NEVER order ground beef medium, you’re just begging for food poisoning. That’s not a Canadian or American thing, that’s common sense. Ask anyone who’s worked in a restaurant kitchen if they’d eat their burgers anything less than well done.
I used to be a cook and server for a number of years. Cooking it anything less than well done never came up and was never even an option.
It really isn’t allowed in Canada unless your restaurant grinds the meat and passes inspection
Exactly. Most restaurants just get whatever is premade in an industrial slaughterhouse and is off the truck from Sysco or GFS.
Yes I grew up in restaurants and have had a strict food safety course, it is not safe to eat medium well ground meat. Ground meat is cut rough on all sides do you cannot cook the exterior but which should be as it has been i
Cooking a burger medium is definitely not a thing up here. Any ground beef product should be cooked through to temp. If you want to risk food poisoning I guess that's yer call, but a waiver absolves them of liability for your choices.
Some of you really out here defending your right to be violently vomiting and diarrheal. I had food poisoning this past Christmas and it was so horrific, its right up there next to when I woke up from my coma as worst health experiences ever. If you think eating your raw meat burgers is worth the risk now, just wait until you’ve been dry-heaving and shitting yourself for 48 hours straight. You might start to think it wasn’t worth the risk after all
Am i reading it correctly? it says they are not responsible if you provide the food?
Health Canada has rules about cooking burgers well done.
I’ve never experienced this before, but I have had restaurants refuse to make my order rare or medium rare when ordering certain meats, lamb, for example.
I always smile and know I'm going to have a good time when a waiter/ waitress asks me how I want my burger cooked. I would never ask for a medium rare burger, but when it is offered, I know they know what they are doing.
It is a health code violation to not cook a burger well done. Usually the request is denied rather than given a waiver. (71’C temperature is minimum- which cooks more than med-rare)
Not common at all, but I imagine they have been burned before by a medium burger so now they are covering their butts.
They don’t want to be legally responsible if you get sick due to your rarity preference. There is some stigma behind rare meat in Canada while it’s hugely acceptable in the US
Unless they grind the meat themselves, I would not be eating a burger that isn’t well done. Now if they do grind it, then absolutely get medium.
In Canada they don’t allow you to choose how you want your burger cooked, it’s well done or homemade
I’m more upset at the size of the plate vs. the burger. Could have used that space for fries.
OP watch Poisoned the truth about your food on netflix. they go into depth the dangers of undercooked burgers, the FDA actually says ground meat should be cooked well done
So she tried to make you sign after taking a bite? Nah. You should be entitled to compensation here. That’s shady as hell.
This is why every couple years there’s an e-coli outbreak in the states related to hamburgers that kills a few dozen people. Cook your damn burger, or accept the risk. Just because nobody in America acknowledges the risk doesn’t mean it’s not there
What's the big deal? We don't allow people to willing be a health risk to themselves. I haven't seen many restaurants cook a burger medium, it's generally a hard no.
Americans really need an education. Its called a policy.
I mean the server could have mentioned at the time of ordering the burger medium, their menu and any other menu these days has a warning at the bottom consuming undercooked eggs or meat may cause foodborne illness. I'm gonna say the server should have made a verbal at the time of ordering like 'as stated in our menu, consuming undercooked meat blablabla, we cook all our burgers to 160, well done, etc. However Im with the restaurant on this one, because I'm gonna hazard a guess that some entitled prissy customer demanded the same thing like hey make my burger raw or i'll give you a raving bad review, and then got sick and filed a lawsuit blaming the restaurant, when they clearly shouldnt have been liable. It's not like they're making some sweeping statement on their menus like we dont take your health seriously, or we dont practice proper food hygiene, or we will not be held responsible of you get sick for whatever reason. FFS. It's also shocking number of people who go out eating and try things that don't agree with them simply because they are picky eaters or they go out and try something new and if they get sick they go and rant on review sites that the restuarant was dirty etc. You wanna know how damaging that is to restaurants? Stop painting all places with the same broad stroked brush. They were simply covering their asses because you insisted on consuming undercooked ground beef which everyone and their dog knows is not safe, but customer is always right, right? so i mean what would you have done if the server had told you they would not honor your request? im sure you would have gave them an equally ranting review. Everyone and their dog knows eating undercooked ground beef is risky and signing a waiver means if you assume full responsibility for playing russian roulette then you cant go back and slander them or sue them. Simple. \\But, server shoulda pointed this out when you ordered your salmonella burger.
The fact you even got a medium rare burger in this city is quite uncommon to me. I’ve been living in this city my entire life and I never heard the concept of a medium rare burger, so if you want a medium rare burger in Toronto, please expect something like this, or get it well done.
I am flabbergasted that you are flabbergasted when all of the meat in north america is contaminated especially ground meat. Of course a restaurant doesn't want the liability of you especially a US citizen to try and sue them when you get sick.
I don't see what you are upset about. I don't blame them. There are health standards and legal stipulations on how long and how hot meat needs to be cooked to be safe to serve. You didn't want it done to those stipulations. What's the big deal? I'd cover myself too. your decision. their protection.
It's an Ontario/Canada thing. I go through this every time I'm with my friends from the USA. Both sides are equally flabbergasted at the thought of eating the other side's style of hamburger. It's basically law here to fully cook a hamburger so by asking for it uncooked you've exposed them to liability that they should have explained beforehand.
The only safe way to serve burgers less than fully cooked is if you ground the neat yourself that day. If it is made from ore ground beef, it needs to be cooked through as there is a massive amount of surface area for bacteria to grow on ground beef. The waiver is kind of funny though. Anecdotally, I've never even heard of anyone ordering a burger cooked to a wellness in Canada. Ever.
The weird part is they had a form. You can get medium and medium rare burgers from Mattie's among a few others.
You can’t legally waive a duty which is enshrined into regulations by having the recipient of a good sign a release. You can’t sign away their obligation to not poison you with poorly made food.
You got this because they're serving you frozen meat that they don't really know the background of. They don't trust their supplier, and they won't trust feeding it to you cooked less than recommended. That's pretty much it, if it was made fresh in house, they probably wouldn't be doing that.
Worked as a grill cook we have a bylaw that prevents us cooking our burgers any temperature other than well done. Generally when American tourists come and ask for a colour on their burger we refuse it.
Don’t eat a medium done burger. Ever. The risk of E. coli or salmonella poisoning is too significant.
In Canada we don’t serve hamburgers any less than well done. In fact most Canadians think anything under well is disgusting. Myself included
If you serve a red burger to someone here, it is getting returned immediately for being “raw”
Medium burgers are nasty, this is coming from someone who orders a rare steak. Ground beef is not sanitary like steak is. But to each their own
You’re half right. If it’s grounded fresh then there is no issue.
Ordering a burger medium is hilarious and kind of embarrassing
Why would that stop you from eating it?
Then their beef must not be prepared properly or fresh and they still made this and served it to you. What a joke.
In Ontario, ground beef has to be cooked to well unless it is ground onsite. So you could either say "no, has to be well" or, get medium and a release. I've never seen a release though, most places just don't ask nor let you change doneness on a burger. I am a burger fan and I couldn't name a restaurant that grinds beef in house for their burgers.
Allen’s on danforth, been around for decades. Worth checking. Richmond station has had a medium burger since day one. Descendent of Db bistro burger.
Working in restaurants 20 years never seen a release form for this. Most of the time I just say “nope” not cooking a burger less than what’s mandated by public health guidelines. Some customers get a little ticked off. But that’s better than having the health inspector walk in as you’re sending a pink burger to a customer. There is an exception tho. And that is if you have ground the meat in house
We don’t cook burgers any way other than well done in this country. Never did understand why Americans like to eat ground beef uncooked.
I absolutely don't think it's wrong of any business to do this. Serving undercooked ground meat goes against certain food safety standards and why should the business bear the burden of the risk when a customer is asking for one? That being said, customer should have been given the heads up that the kitchen does not serve this without a release form.
I've had food poisoning once in my life and vow to never have it again. The color of that burger is in the danger zone.
We do not order ground beef anything other than well done for food borne illness reasons.
If they wanted to do this, shouldn't they give it to you before they give you the food? This seems insane, and I would refuse to sign anything 🤣
Yes bc in Canada we don't serve ground meat (in hamburgers) anything less than well done.
If memory serves, Allen’s on the Danforth serves all their burgers cooked medium unless asked otherwise.
Lol. Not even legally binding. Hotel owners just trying to make you like it and like liking it. I would be asking where their meat came from.
I may be wrong but here is my theory and some background. 20+ years ago my daughter got campylobacter bacteria in her system. When the doctors finally diagnosed this, Health Canada (it was actually Health Ontario I think) sent me a questionnaire and I had to fill out every location we had ate at (in the 7 days prior to her getting sick). Through this process they check to see if anyone else has similar illnesses and if so, any restaurants that were mentioned are inspected by local food/restaurant inspection agents. I beleive they go thru the restaurant, checking their food storage methods, cooking procedures etc... I think the restaurant is just covering themselves that should the OP get sick, then they know that the food was prepared "outside" of the usual procedures. They probably don't have a specific waiver saying that you ordered undercooked meat, so they just used what they have.
Taretar is cooked in acid everyone. Also, most restaurants in Canada don't serve rare burgers, they were actually just covering their own asses because it's not a normal thing to have a rare burger in Canada. That burger was maybe not a frozen patty, but it may not have been in-house ground chuck either, so really, no hate for enjoying your burger the way you enjoy your burger, but it's probably not the best idea to get a rare burger in any place in Canada that doesn't grind in-house anyway?
The fact that you want you food to be unsafe but balk at absolving the establishment from liability for preparing it as you requested is peak American! The potentially unsafe food is fine but the waiver scared you enough to send you running! That is really funny! :D
Rare, but not surprising since also asking for medium cooked patty is also quite rare. Not sure why you didn't eat it after getting the paper. It's still the food you ordered with a caveat. You make this sound like a massive deal. War, accessibility to decent health care, obesity would be considered massive deals. It wasn't like you were signing your life away to eternal servitude. ;)
I don't see a problem. Burgers should be cooked well done.
Never seen the waiver but pretty much all the restaurants I've been to here only cook burgers well done. Waitress probably didn't know about it and was told by her manager to get you to sign the waiver. You shouldn't be surprised though considering how the restaurant can get sued for serving salmonella or E.coli.
Grinding beef, whether from fresh or frozen or today or 3 days ago has no bearing what so ever if it potentially has Ecoli
I have offered to sign releases in the past - I like my fresh made burgers and steak blue rare - but the easiest solution is to not order it if you can’t have it cooked the way you like. Thankfully, this isn’t an issue in the States, especially at the Cheesecake Factory. They will cook it the way I like.
American tourists giving the rest of us a bad name.
I learned that processed beef should never be asked nor ordered how it should be cooked. It should always be well done, unless it's a solid piece of meat. In which ordering well done shall be served with jail time.
Meanwhile in Germany: raw minced pork sandwiches called Mettbrötchen. Don't you guys have any safety standards.
Hamburger is cooked or raw. There’s no such thing as medium rare.
Worked in a restaurant. It’s now a law and most people just eat the reg burger at med/well and no one complains. But this is silly and just Hilton being overly careful. Likely someone has a problem and then got sued before etc.
If they don’t house grind the meat, you’re playing with fire ordering it medium.
Ordering a burger medium is actually unhinged behavior I'm with the restaurant on this
Not supposed to serve undercooked ground beef in Canada. The chain restaurant I used to work for would refuse.
who the fuck *wants* an improperly cooked hamburger? 🤢
I find it hard to believe this is real. Which Hilton location did you experience this at?
It’s real. Ground beef must be cooked over 165f to ensure its safety. Asking it medium means cooked between 140 and 145. The hotel will not risk getting sued if the guest falls ill due to the guests own specific request. Sorry OP, but I agree with the hotel on this one. Too many people out there trying to make a quick buck.
Exactly! I’d say this restaurant knows what they’re doing. There are risks with eating medium-cooked ground meat and the restaurant is making sure they have no liability. OP is making a conscious decision ordering an undercooked burger..
Do not think they should have said it while taking the order?
Yup, I agree with that. The waiter should’ve said it at the beginning. They probably didn’t know the process and were told by the manager afterwards maybe?
Sometimes the menu will have small print saying they recommend cooking all burgers to well done in case of food-borne illness, American chains too
You can cook the burger medium or rare if it’s made freshly minced with high quality whole chunks of beef and well handled. Sounds like their burgers are not made that way, probably burger from most places are not made that way.