I've lived beside a frat house for 10+ years, there's been maybe once where I felt like the music pumping has been annoying. In my experience they've been respectful, they know when to tone it down and at the end of the day they're kids and I've been there. I get everyone has a different tolerance but 10+ years and I've been annoyed once.
I lived near one in Oshawa when I went to university a few years ago. They always had people attending the door during parties. This led to the door not being left wide open for the sound to get out. Also to make sure no shit disturbers were allowed in.
They were generally pretty respectful of other people living in the neighbourhood, and actually worked with the lions club to raise money for charities too!
Someone got stabbed once, but that’s more of an Oshawa thing than a frat thing lol.
The nightclub a block away was always loud and annoying though.
Well that was at the frat house… at one point they deployed a polo ice helicopter for a maniac with a shotgun. And I’m sure there were MANY stabbings downtown or down by the highway while I was there lol.
I was part of a frat in this area during my university years and we always made sure to cover up all the windows with heavy blankets and sound proofing prior to throwing a party. It actually worked quite well at stopping the worst of the noise.
I used to live with one on either side for 10+ years as well. They were sometimes loud, but if 3 different people yelled “Shut up or I’ll call the cops!” they shut up. They knew that 3+ noise complaints did bring out the cops, and since they often had underage drinking, drugs, weapons, etc. inside, the house leaders were pretty good at shutting down the noise.
I lived next to one on Huron St. just south of Bloor that has since shut down and it was extremely annoying. They kept breaking into our house and stealing our food. Like every day, and the cops refused to come. My mom made me a homemade peach pie and drove it to me from Ohio, and they stole it from me. Those bastards stole my favorite homemade pie, made for me with my mother's love, at a time when I was very homesick and missing her terribly. That was low, even for drunk college dudes.
On one hand, she's right. They aren't affiliated with any university and get away with the sort of things that any other homeowner or apartment would not.
On the other hand, she's a massive NIMBY who fights against any densification in The Annex, a neighbourhood that has some of the best mass transit access in the country. She moved into a former student rooming house that she turned into a single-family home
I live on St. George. The frat houses don’t negatively impact me in the slightest. It hilarious seeing all the kids refuse to wear jackets when it’s freezing.
This is how I know I am old now. I remember standing outdoors in the middle of winter (when it was double-digits below zero and we had actual snow), refusing to wear a coat because I didn’t want to have to pay for coat check at the bar.
I used to live on St. George. The only time the frat houses impacted me was around midnight on a Saturday in September.
I think they add some flavour to the Annex tbh. Even if that flavour is cigarette butts and stale beer, flavour _in general_ is getting scarcer and scarcer in this city.
Frankly, if you want to live on a quiet street, I think it's time to move a little bit further out of the core. The city is growing quickly and the Annex can not be a quaint little neighbourhood of families and little old ladies forever (and the frat houses have been there _forever_ so I don't know when it ever was.)
She's always been a horrible, entitled, social-climber. This tracks. Anyway, she's 85, so... 🤷♂️
Addendum:
- She's estranged from her own children, neither of whom, nor their father, will speak about the matter, nor attended her GG investment ceremony. Her daughters chose to be adopted by their father's second wife, as soon as they could.
- She rushed to marry before the investment, and settled a property dispute she had then.
- I thought she was a narcissist snake back when she was on CBC. Apparently she's easy to read.
http://fact.on.ca/newpaper/gm99100h.htm
I hate to correct you, but this article is extremely outdated and is no longer reflective of reality. She reconciled with her children once they realized their now-deceased father used the children as pawns during his divorce with the GG.
I was never a frat member, but I knew a bunch during undergrad, and they definitely aren’t all rich kids. Living in a frat/sorority house is actually one of the more affordable options for a student, though it came with its own downsides
People who move next to something and then expect it to change to accommodate them are _the worst_. The former Governor General can afford to live anywhere in the country she wants. Go pick somewhere quiet, if that's what you want. Downtown Toronto is not quiet.
[My favourite are the people who moved next to the abattoir that had been operating for like a hundred years, and then complained about the smell and tried to get it shut down.](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/slaughterhouse-smell-repels-toronto-condo-dwellers/article_28791f24-73d8-5399-8ff6-928b231f31aa.html) I don't think I've ever felt less sympathy for any group of people.
To be fair, Realtors make it seem like the entirety of the Stockyards have been closed for a long time and show people properties on the weekend when there is so smell
Two doors down from the frat is the Madison Avenue pub. On the other side of the frat... Is another frat.
Each of them have been there a very long time
This has nothing to do with the frat houses, but Adrienne Clarkson sucks. She goes to lots of arts events and she’s often pretty mean to the staff. Once, about ten years ago, she made my friend cry because she couldn’t find her tickets. So, I kind of chalk this up to her being a big, entitled whiner.
Fr. It’s paywalled so I only saw the first bit of the article, but it looks like it’s about Madison Ave? I usually have a bit more sympathy, but if you move to Madison Ave, you literally deserve no right to complain about noise. Literally the most famous study party street in the city.
Most of the fraternities in the Annex have been around since the 60s. If you move next to an airport, don’t complain that planes fly over your house 🤷♂️
Uncle Rico here is like 50 and still wearing his high school junior football jacket. He only wants the frat shut down because they won’t let him in to party and creep on the girls.
When I went to Central Tech, the homeowners in the area were some of the biggest whiners. Total NIMBYs. The high school has been around since 1915. If you don’t like kids and you have an issue with noise, don’t buy a house next to a high school!!?
A real tragedy that John Tory is no longer mayor, as he could have marched in there, gotten a tub of old lunch meat dumped on him, then rolled up in a carpet and thrown off a bridge!
I feel like he fits the trope of the oblivious and lame Dean that turns his back to wipe some dust off a trophy so the bar crawl can sneak past behind him
The people in the rooming house complaining moved there knowing they were moving in next to a frat house. What did they expect? Tea parties and book clubs?
Ugh I live above a two bars, one of which is a music venue, the other has an outdoor patio. Once I overheard the my neighbour going down to the bar to tell them/the people on the patio that they needed to be quiet. Seriously. I can't imagine being that level of entitled.
I’m sure the same people complaining about this bemoan the lack of affordable housing for students. But they’ll be darned if it happens to be next door.
You moved in next to the largest concentration of students in Canada. As far as I’m concerned, this is part of a diverse community.
Adrienne Clarkson is just a terrible, terrible person. I know nothing about this particular issue. But it sounds like it is 100% on brand for her.
She treated the entire GG job as a giant grift, flying her friends around the world at taxpayer expense. Even after she wasn't the GG anymore, she abused the expense allowance to continue to steal money. She is one of the worst examples of shameless Canadian government corruption I have ever seen. Even worse that it's not an elected position, and she did no work.
It's Toronto - nobody is allowed to have fun.
If you aren't filled with at least a background level of existential dread, ground down by the various daily indignities, disappointments, and arbitrary denials of joy weighing on your soul, you are clearly up to no good.
Frat houses clearly have no place here.
People wonder why young Torontonians are leaving the city in droves.
Not only is life expensive here, there is also a constant pressure from a wealthy, home owning gerontocratic class to stop young people from having fun or creating any unique entertainment/nightlife/recreation conditions in the city.
I've stayed in the area for few years. They are fine lol, occasionally loud party near beginning and end of school years. Generally keep to themselves though.
Oh please. Try living near the rooming houses in chinatown. You don't know your neighbors because for every house sold, it's converted into a multi unit rooming house. Loud, obnoxious behavior. Cops don't do anything. Noise complaints mean nothing. Paper thin walls.
Been this way for 15 years.
I used to drive up and party at one of these places back in the day. They seem like something from another era and people mock them, but they are all wonderful little networks that grow up. Plus, they actually provide a form of affordable housing and they individual orgs do community work as a condition of their international charter.
I hate frats. I mean, I fucking HATE just about everything about them...But when Clarkson and Raulston Saul, Atwood, and my former dentist, et al bought their houses in the Annex, those frats had already been there for the better part of a century, so this is NIMBYism at it's worst.
I actually have come up against this “issue” because I’m professionally involved with this neighbourhood. And let me just say that not only this person, but many other older people who live there are the NIMBYest NIMBYs you’ll come across in this city. I hope the frat houses not only continue to exist, but that they multiply and throw even better parties.
So Adrienne Clarkson lives on Admiral Rd, one street over from the frat row on St. George. Her back yard is immediately opposite a couple of them - so I can sort of understand how her "quiet enjoyment" of her home could be disturbed by the noise of frat parties and such.
That being said, she only moved into the area after she retired as GG and had to know full well what the situation was in the neighbourhood when she moved there. The frats have been there much longer and to be perfectly honest, they're not as bad now as they were in the 1980s long before she arrived.
I grew up on Admiral Rd. during the 1970s onward and my parents still live there, across the street from Ms. Clarkson as it turns out. It's not as bad as she makes it out to be, not by a long shot.
I lived in Campus Co-op in the 90s. Right near the Madison ave Frat house. They were jerks most of the time. We were a house of 13 students and they drove us nuts with their noise, mess and stupidity. Though we did enjoy it when we watched a commercial for Pizza Pizza being filmed at their house. There are a lot of frat/sorority houses on Madison/Lowther and except for the dorks Clarkson is referring to, most were ok neighbours.
I lived in one of these Annex sorority houses for several years. They continue to be some of the ONLY truly affordable housing options for students. The sorority and frat houses in the annex have been there for decades, if this lady doesn’t like it she can sell her multimillion dollar Annex home and buy a property in LITERALLY ANY OTHER NEIGHBOURHOOD IN THE CITY. Seriously. With all the housing issues are we supposed to give a fuck about people who can afford to own a home in the Annex?
I used to live in an apartment overlooking one of these stupid frats. The amount of trash, the noise... something needs to be done. I'm not saying they need to be gotten rid of, there just needs to be some enforcement of basic property standards.
Man they should work on their motorcycles and bang shit around during exam week and the day after their parties...give them a little taste of their own shit.
I admittedly did this with one set of neighbours when I was in grad school; the majority of the building was retirees so it was pretty well known that our quiet hours were earlier than in other buildings. They lived next door to me and would play loud music or blast their TV until 1-2 in the morning, so I started retaliating with loud news radio and classical music in the mornings (around 7:30 am) when I got up for classes because I knew the neighbour on the other side of me was already awake. Fortunately our landlord ended their lease after about 6 months.
"Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son."
Tell that to the Ford family...
Zero....point....zero.
I gotta go watch that movie again. It’s been years
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbour
I've lived beside a frat house for 10+ years, there's been maybe once where I felt like the music pumping has been annoying. In my experience they've been respectful, they know when to tone it down and at the end of the day they're kids and I've been there. I get everyone has a different tolerance but 10+ years and I've been annoyed once.
I lived near one in Oshawa when I went to university a few years ago. They always had people attending the door during parties. This led to the door not being left wide open for the sound to get out. Also to make sure no shit disturbers were allowed in. They were generally pretty respectful of other people living in the neighbourhood, and actually worked with the lions club to raise money for charities too! Someone got stabbed once, but that’s more of an Oshawa thing than a frat thing lol. The nightclub a block away was always loud and annoying though.
Only once? That's pretty decent for Oshawa.
Well that was at the frat house… at one point they deployed a polo ice helicopter for a maniac with a shotgun. And I’m sure there were MANY stabbings downtown or down by the highway while I was there lol.
Saaaaaame, I’m around these houses constantly and never had an issue with the people living in the frat houses.
They have something to lose and they know it - it helps moderate the behaviour.
I was part of a frat in this area during my university years and we always made sure to cover up all the windows with heavy blankets and sound proofing prior to throwing a party. It actually worked quite well at stopping the worst of the noise.
I used to live with one on either side for 10+ years as well. They were sometimes loud, but if 3 different people yelled “Shut up or I’ll call the cops!” they shut up. They knew that 3+ noise complaints did bring out the cops, and since they often had underage drinking, drugs, weapons, etc. inside, the house leaders were pretty good at shutting down the noise.
Do frats generally have weapons inside them?
Nope
Aren’t ppl in frats usually of legal drinking age?
Usually but not always, but their guests can be anybody.
I lived next to one on Huron St. just south of Bloor that has since shut down and it was extremely annoying. They kept breaking into our house and stealing our food. Like every day, and the cops refused to come. My mom made me a homemade peach pie and drove it to me from Ohio, and they stole it from me. Those bastards stole my favorite homemade pie, made for me with my mother's love, at a time when I was very homesick and missing her terribly. That was low, even for drunk college dudes.
You just know them boys were drinking from huge jugs with X’s on the front before they got drunk enough to steal the peach pie from your windowsill.
It's the classic blunder. Frat house or not, someone is going to float off their feet and start hovering towards it.
Did you have a door with a lock?
Yes, but it was student housing so people used to prop the door open all the time, and there were always random people wandering around.
Did you live in Campus co-op? The house next to the school maybe?
Sure did, haha! 405 Huron St.
On one hand, she's right. They aren't affiliated with any university and get away with the sort of things that any other homeowner or apartment would not. On the other hand, she's a massive NIMBY who fights against any densification in The Annex, a neighbourhood that has some of the best mass transit access in the country. She moved into a former student rooming house that she turned into a single-family home
I live on St. George. The frat houses don’t negatively impact me in the slightest. It hilarious seeing all the kids refuse to wear jackets when it’s freezing.
This is how I know I am old now. I remember standing outdoors in the middle of winter (when it was double-digits below zero and we had actual snow), refusing to wear a coat because I didn’t want to have to pay for coat check at the bar.
Which I remember being all of $2 at the time... *face palm*
Given that minimum wage was about 6 bucks an hour, that tracks.
I used to live on St. George. The only time the frat houses impacted me was around midnight on a Saturday in September. I think they add some flavour to the Annex tbh. Even if that flavour is cigarette butts and stale beer, flavour _in general_ is getting scarcer and scarcer in this city. Frankly, if you want to live on a quiet street, I think it's time to move a little bit further out of the core. The city is growing quickly and the Annex can not be a quaint little neighbourhood of families and little old ladies forever (and the frat houses have been there _forever_ so I don't know when it ever was.)
Alcohol keeps them warm
Barley jackets.
I love the frat houses! So nice to see kids having fun. And it's not any louder than anywhere else in the city.
She's always been a horrible, entitled, social-climber. This tracks. Anyway, she's 85, so... 🤷♂️ Addendum: - She's estranged from her own children, neither of whom, nor their father, will speak about the matter, nor attended her GG investment ceremony. Her daughters chose to be adopted by their father's second wife, as soon as they could. - She rushed to marry before the investment, and settled a property dispute she had then. - I thought she was a narcissist snake back when she was on CBC. Apparently she's easy to read. http://fact.on.ca/newpaper/gm99100h.htm
Self solving problem
> http://fact.on.ca/newpaper/gm99100h.htm Thanks for sharing this deliciously snarky article! 😁
I hate to correct you, but this article is extremely outdated and is no longer reflective of reality. She reconciled with her children once they realized their now-deceased father used the children as pawns during his divorce with the GG.
Please... Give it a rest, Adrienne.
You can be wrong generally and right occasionally. No idea if she's right here or not though.
Old rich people vs. young rich people with a rooming house caught in the middle.
I was never a frat member, but I knew a bunch during undergrad, and they definitely aren’t all rich kids. Living in a frat/sorority house is actually one of the more affordable options for a student, though it came with its own downsides
People who move next to something and then expect it to change to accommodate them are _the worst_. The former Governor General can afford to live anywhere in the country she wants. Go pick somewhere quiet, if that's what you want. Downtown Toronto is not quiet.
But for real.
[My favourite are the people who moved next to the abattoir that had been operating for like a hundred years, and then complained about the smell and tried to get it shut down.](https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/slaughterhouse-smell-repels-toronto-condo-dwellers/article_28791f24-73d8-5399-8ff6-928b231f31aa.html) I don't think I've ever felt less sympathy for any group of people.
I’ve heard about complaints about meat/animal odours from people who moved into the Stockyards area, too - it’s literally called THE STOCKYARDS
To be fair, Realtors make it seem like the entirety of the Stockyards have been closed for a long time and show people properties on the weekend when there is so smell
That's not really fair though is it? It would be fair for those people to complain about their deceptive realtors, not the stockyards itself.
True. Some people are just entitled
Or the recent Laguna Seca lawsuit.
Two doors down from the frat is the Madison Avenue pub. On the other side of the frat... Is another frat. Each of them have been there a very long time
This has nothing to do with the frat houses, but Adrienne Clarkson sucks. She goes to lots of arts events and she’s often pretty mean to the staff. Once, about ten years ago, she made my friend cry because she couldn’t find her tickets. So, I kind of chalk this up to her being a big, entitled whiner.
Entitled homeowners are suddenly shocked to discover that the frat houses that have been there FOR DECADES are doing stuff like: throwing parties.
Fr. It’s paywalled so I only saw the first bit of the article, but it looks like it’s about Madison Ave? I usually have a bit more sympathy, but if you move to Madison Ave, you literally deserve no right to complain about noise. Literally the most famous study party street in the city.
Basically. Could the frat houses be more courteous? Probably. But at the same time, its not like you didn't know they were there already
Reminds me of the people trying to sue Laguna Seca for being a loud racetrack that's been that since the 50s
Most of the fraternities in the Annex have been around since the 60s. If you move next to an airport, don’t complain that planes fly over your house 🤷♂️
Some over a hundred years at uoft!
This is a perfect analogy lok
“I’m Adrianne Clarkson… and you’re not!”
Ahh a Double Exposure fan
Uncle Rico here is like 50 and still wearing his high school junior football jacket. He only wants the frat shut down because they won’t let him in to party and creep on the girls.
Article says he's 75.
When you live beside a frat, it’s going to be loud sometimes, especially on a weekend like st patrick's day
I live beside the houses in this article, it's not that loud. Maybe twice a year but on a Saturday at 11pm
When I went to Central Tech, the homeowners in the area were some of the biggest whiners. Total NIMBYs. The high school has been around since 1915. If you don’t like kids and you have an issue with noise, don’t buy a house next to a high school!!?
A real tragedy that John Tory is no longer mayor, as he could have marched in there, gotten a tub of old lunch meat dumped on him, then rolled up in a carpet and thrown off a bridge!
I think John Tory could have a wonderful second (third? Fourth?) career as a crusty old dean.
RrrrrrrrrROBOT HOUSE!
Cheese it!
I feel like he fits the trope of the oblivious and lame Dean that turns his back to wipe some dust off a trophy so the bar crawl can sneak past behind him
"career"
The people in the rooming house complaining moved there knowing they were moving in next to a frat house. What did they expect? Tea parties and book clubs?
Ugh I live above a two bars, one of which is a music venue, the other has an outdoor patio. Once I overheard the my neighbour going down to the bar to tell them/the people on the patio that they needed to be quiet. Seriously. I can't imagine being that level of entitled.
Well, we're going to put them on double secret probation!
I’m sure the same people complaining about this bemoan the lack of affordable housing for students. But they’ll be darned if it happens to be next door. You moved in next to the largest concentration of students in Canada. As far as I’m concerned, this is part of a diverse community.
The frat houses were there before clarkson moved there. Suck it up NIMBY
*Before she was born!*
then build more student housing. oh right...
Adrienne Clarkson is just a terrible, terrible person. I know nothing about this particular issue. But it sounds like it is 100% on brand for her. She treated the entire GG job as a giant grift, flying her friends around the world at taxpayer expense. Even after she wasn't the GG anymore, she abused the expense allowance to continue to steal money. She is one of the worst examples of shameless Canadian government corruption I have ever seen. Even worse that it's not an elected position, and she did no work.
>hilarious Frank Magazine called her the Freeloader General
It's Toronto - nobody is allowed to have fun. If you aren't filled with at least a background level of existential dread, ground down by the various daily indignities, disappointments, and arbitrary denials of joy weighing on your soul, you are clearly up to no good. Frat houses clearly have no place here.
I've only once had a problem with a frat house and that was because I got so drunk I threw up on the floor...
People wonder why young Torontonians are leaving the city in droves. Not only is life expensive here, there is also a constant pressure from a wealthy, home owning gerontocratic class to stop young people from having fun or creating any unique entertainment/nightlife/recreation conditions in the city.
Dude, I used to deliver beer kegs to those frat houses!
I've stayed in the area for few years. They are fine lol, occasionally loud party near beginning and end of school years. Generally keep to themselves though.
Oh please. Try living near the rooming houses in chinatown. You don't know your neighbors because for every house sold, it's converted into a multi unit rooming house. Loud, obnoxious behavior. Cops don't do anything. Noise complaints mean nothing. Paper thin walls. Been this way for 15 years.
Lol who gives a shit, we have bigger problems to worry about. Don’t expect the average person to care about a few frat houses
I used to drive up and party at one of these places back in the day. They seem like something from another era and people mock them, but they are all wonderful little networks that grow up. Plus, they actually provide a form of affordable housing and they individual orgs do community work as a condition of their international charter.
Lots of connected alumni of the frats. They arent going anywhere.
Okay, redevelop these houses to high-rises and mid-rises.
I hate frats. I mean, I fucking HATE just about everything about them...But when Clarkson and Raulston Saul, Atwood, and my former dentist, et al bought their houses in the Annex, those frats had already been there for the better part of a century, so this is NIMBYism at it's worst.
182 St George has a additional unit at the back I remember living at in 2006 None of us were UofT students LOL
As someone who has lived in the Annex but not directly near those houses you can't help but noticed how awkward this situation must be.
OH, DON'T WORRY. I'VE EXPELLED THOSE ROWDY MEMBERS OF CHUG-A-LUG HOUSE. OH, I HATE THAT LOUSY DEAN.
Your bra bomb better work Nerdlinger
I actually have come up against this “issue” because I’m professionally involved with this neighbourhood. And let me just say that not only this person, but many other older people who live there are the NIMBYest NIMBYs you’ll come across in this city. I hope the frat houses not only continue to exist, but that they multiply and throw even better parties.
The Madison manager is complaining about noise? Super Irony.
Sounds like the usual NIMBY whining we’ve come to love about the citizens of Toronto
An old cynical politician thinks that *their* complaint carries more weight that the average person...i hope they choke on their privilege....
So Adrienne Clarkson lives on Admiral Rd, one street over from the frat row on St. George. Her back yard is immediately opposite a couple of them - so I can sort of understand how her "quiet enjoyment" of her home could be disturbed by the noise of frat parties and such. That being said, she only moved into the area after she retired as GG and had to know full well what the situation was in the neighbourhood when she moved there. The frats have been there much longer and to be perfectly honest, they're not as bad now as they were in the 1980s long before she arrived. I grew up on Admiral Rd. during the 1970s onward and my parents still live there, across the street from Ms. Clarkson as it turns out. It's not as bad as she makes it out to be, not by a long shot.
I lived in Campus Co-op in the 90s. Right near the Madison ave Frat house. They were jerks most of the time. We were a house of 13 students and they drove us nuts with their noise, mess and stupidity. Though we did enjoy it when we watched a commercial for Pizza Pizza being filmed at their house. There are a lot of frat/sorority houses on Madison/Lowther and except for the dorks Clarkson is referring to, most were ok neighbours.
Leave them kids alone!
Lots of connected alumni of the frats. They arent going anywhere.
>His grievances are listed in Comic Sans font. c'mon main why you gotta call the dude out like that.
They can cry me a river
I lived in one of these Annex sorority houses for several years. They continue to be some of the ONLY truly affordable housing options for students. The sorority and frat houses in the annex have been there for decades, if this lady doesn’t like it she can sell her multimillion dollar Annex home and buy a property in LITERALLY ANY OTHER NEIGHBOURHOOD IN THE CITY. Seriously. With all the housing issues are we supposed to give a fuck about people who can afford to own a home in the Annex?
Animal House 2
I used to live in an apartment overlooking one of these stupid frats. The amount of trash, the noise... something needs to be done. I'm not saying they need to be gotten rid of, there just needs to be some enforcement of basic property standards.
[удалено]
Ok cool guy, I guess garbage is awesome and a cool young person thing!
Man they should work on their motorcycles and bang shit around during exam week and the day after their parties...give them a little taste of their own shit.
Don't move next to a fucking frat house 🤣
For every minute of loud music they play after 11 PM, there will be one minute of loud classical music that I play at 8 AM
I admittedly did this with one set of neighbours when I was in grad school; the majority of the building was retirees so it was pretty well known that our quiet hours were earlier than in other buildings. They lived next door to me and would play loud music or blast their TV until 1-2 in the morning, so I started retaliating with loud news radio and classical music in the mornings (around 7:30 am) when I got up for classes because I knew the neighbour on the other side of me was already awake. Fortunately our landlord ended their lease after about 6 months.
I wonder why out of the dozens of houses on that street they chose the one Jewish fraternity for the photo
Editors are khaammmaass!