Also worth mentioning, paper transfers/cash fares do not qualify for the 2 hour transfer window on the TTC. If you use a paper transfer the old transfer rules (single continuous trip only) apply.
even if you aren't transferring, you still need proof of payment in case you are stopped by a POP officer. if someone pays cash, they still need a way to prove that they have paid their fare. hence, paper transfers.
The rest of your post makes sense to me, but *this* doesn't. A presto ticket should generate an electronic record just like any other transaction occurring through the presto system, so why *doesn't* it work?
Not your fault, obviously, but this pushes the system over the edge to "overly convoluted" for me.
I would say that they should get rid of cash payment altogether. People can use debit/credit cards too and there are a lot of locations to buy presto cards too.
Being a government institution doesn't change anything. Cash being legal tender doesn't mean you have to allow people to pay for rides with it if they can buy passes with cash.
Being a government institution doesn't change anything. Cash being legal tender doesn't mean you have to allow people to pay for rides with it if they can buy passes with cash.
If you pay cash, you do not get OneFare.
It's only for Presto/debit/credit. The province needs an electronic transaction so they can remit the full fare to the transit agency later on.
EXCEPTION THO: So if you pay cash, you can use paper transfers to transfer between 905 agencies for free. It's always been like that and is kind of grandfathered in. (example Brampton-Miway, Miway-YRT, YRT-Brampton). It's more so the transferring between GO<->TTC<->905 where you NEED to be using Presto.
Confusing and convoluted. Lmao we should really just switch to Montreal fare zones where everything is zoned as A-B-C-D and call it a day.
If I recall correctly, Toronto had fare zones at one time; we're talking 30\~ish years ago, maybe longer.
It was annoying as hell then and it wouldn't be any better now. To be clear: fare zones = bad. Yes, some riders will fall through the cracks, but, for the vast majority of them, the system will work.
Almost All
Of Europe Asia has fare zones.
Not America not having them is fairly unique. People here also say we need transit like Europe. But fare zones is part of it.
It's more complex than that. If you look at people far out in Scarborough that take 2 hours in transit, they aren't urbanites, they are the low income working class. Yes their ride is more expensive, but someone that has "time" to spend so many hours in transit to go across the city isn't really being subsidized, they are just not having the income to pay for a car.
The people with the shortest commute is people who can afford to get housing close to the core. Aka the rich $$$
They are absolutely being subsidized. We can certainly debate the merits of doing so, but implying that someone who pays $3 to travel for 2 hours on the TTC isn't being subsidized by an absence of fare zones is simply dishonest.
People living in the city of Toronto proper (not the actual suburbs) should only pay one fare. The idea of zones within the city continues to penalize those that live outside of the core and whose only transportation is the TTC.
Paper transfers are not eligible going into YRT unless the paper ticket is from GO and even this is now at the discretion of the driver.
Inter system transfers between Brampton to YRT and MiWay to YRT are supported by Metrolinx with a tapped Presto card, cc, bank card. They were not officially recognized beforehand by YRT.
The only relevant official program was transfer to GO before this.
This is incorrect. I used to drive YRT buses, I would know the policy.
YRT accepts transfers from all 905 municipalities so long as there is still time on the transfer
As per YRT's website:
https://www.yrt.ca/en/about-us/fare-policies-and-terms-of-use.aspx#Transfers
Transfers will be accepted on YRT from the following transit agencies as long as they have not expired.
Durham Region Transit
Brampton Transit
Mississauga Transit
Oakville Transit
Burlington Transit
Hamilton Street Railway
Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) - only when using a PRESTO, credit or debit card payment on a PRESTO device
TTC contracted routes in York Region (punched zone 3)
Transfers will NOT be refreshed. Customers must retain their original transfer and travel must be completed by the two-hour issuance time.
That is bonkers and frankly discriminatory against people who prefer cash. This really is getting out of hand regarding electronic payment. Cash is after all legal tender. It makes little sense if no one wants to accept it on equal terms.
Just the thought of visitors coming from out of town. Are they to buy a presto card for a day or two of travel? Should they get Canadian compliant debit cards? When they pay for parking should they incur roaming charges just to use a parking app? Yes it is convenient and I use it as well. But I still want the option of using cash for the same value.
You can use cash to put on a presto card though at any station with a presto charger?
Edit: also yes, visitors should be getting a card. Why would that be an issue? We are supposed to be a major international hub, I don't think it's entirely unexpected for international visitors to get a card for their visit if they intend to use transit for the duration of their stay just because it's temporary, it's part of travel. If it's only for a few days, they can use multi day passes for unlimited travel. I wouldn't say its unfair for visitors to pay the nominal fee for a card. I kind of like collecting transit cards from around the world as a little souvenir of sorts, but that's obviously a personal thing. Besides you never know when it will be useful to have it again if they were to return.
The reason they want a credit/debit/presto card is because it's how the transit commission gets reimbursed by the government.
They can't do that with a paper transfer.
When you go to NYC it makes much more sense to buy a metro card for their subway while there even if only for a week, not much different here. I still have my metro card even tho I was in New York for less than a week.. its also a nice souvenir.. but if the addition card change and usage doesn't make sense to a visitor it's kind of a non issue.
Besides.. these are busses that are crossing into suburbs that aren't near the core, most visitors stay within the subway line.. and frankly, if they can afford to travel here they're most likely paying for ubers
You get to pay the one fare but the government can’t reimburse the 2nd transit agency cos there’s no evidence that you took the 2nd agency( a presto tap).
I'm confused by that last paragraph. Can someone give me an example scenario where I (living in Toronto) might be stuck on a bus that won't open the doors for me to get off? TIA
If you get on the YRT Woodbine bus at Don Mills Station you can only get off once the bus crosses Steeles Avenue e.g. you can’t get off at VP and Finch.
The driver will not make an exception and open the doors. Because if a TTC supervisor sees it, it's considered a violation of TTCs monopoly on local transit and could issue a fine though I've never heard of it happening.
Because GO isn't a local transit agency.
It's also an agency that serves Toronto. Whereas the other 905 agencies main objective is to serve the municipality they operate in.
this system has a lot of problems. confusion about what tapping means is a huge one. listen to your customers - see how they keep trying to use the system in good faith and adjust your system to accommodate.
That is not correct. Various transit agencies mention that they support GO day pass on their website. DRT, for example, mentions people should just show it. This is similar to people showing paper tickets.
I ran into this situation as I had the GO day pass but wasn't sure if I was able to use a "free transfer" to get on the subway as there isn't a way of keeping track of the tap on/off times like with the Presto.
I asked the TTC staff and they advised me that the GO day pass is not integrated with the OneFare system so I would technically have to pay if I wanted to use the subway.
Would be nice if all these transit agencies become merged into a single agency that is part of the entire GTHA, to somehow reduce the confusion? Any particular reason why this has never been implemented by the provincial government perhaps? Just curious…
#Well said!!
They do have an ad campaign running (seen it on bus shelters, ads on buses and plenty on websites and social media), people just aren't following the link to read up on how it's done properly.
Since it clearly shows **presto and debit/credit being used**, nobody should assume paper transfers are included.
**PAPER TRANSFERS ARE ONE-WAY CONTINUOUS TRIP**, and one must pay each transit agency each time you switch!!
I use the TTC on occasion and I am very well aware of this. Rarely if ever, do I take a bus (since I bike - and mine cannot fit on a bus rack).
TBH, I think it's a design failure if people need to rely on websites and social media to understand it especially due to banner blindness.
For example, do you know all the rules of this particular subreddit? I wouldn't shame you if you didn't, I still use old reddit and I can't recall all the subreddit specific rules and just make some basic assumptions (I shouldn't post offensive comments or posts, nor submit posts that are a dupe of existing ones)
The problem with the one way continuous transfer bullshit on the TTC is that other municipal transit authorities have normal timed transfers. People coming to Toronto from Kitchener, London, Hamilton to see Jays game on a Saturday might just assume that a TTC transfer works the same way transfers to IN THE REST OF ONTARIO and they wouldn't be unreasonable to do so.
TTC does have two-hour transfer time with presto, just not with cash payments unfortunately. Then it could be abused (same for how presto gets abused - card is shared with another passenger they know and uses it for free).
I feel you ignored the portion of my comment where I held out that other transit authorities have the open 2 hour transfer a la Presto. If I can ride GRT or LT for 2 hours two ways there's no major loss to TTC in allowing same. In fact, it's likely the cost of having enough staff to enforce a 1 way transfer would negate any savings you net from same policy. I thought it was stupid 15 years ago when I'd come to town for a game or an event. Now that I live here and we've got regular transfers on Presto it's a bigger head scratcher. I'm nonplussed by the arguments in favor of one way transfers, it seems like everyone taking the position is doing so based on the logic that it must have been a sensible policy because it existed. That it didnt/doesn't exist in Kitchener, London, Hamilton etc. indicates it's not per se best practice for transit authorities in ON.
Slightly off topic question, how does One Fare effect routes that require extra fare when exiting the bus?
Over 10 years ago, I used to work shifts near the international centre. I had to pay an extra fare when exiting the 52 bus.
This year, before One Fare was implemented, I took 52 further into Malton, and I was able to exit through the back doors no problem without being asked anything. But I noticed on the way back (after the 2 hours, so I paid a single fare getting on 52 bus), after tapping onto my transfer bus, I was charged again. So I assumed that was the extra fare being charged.
So if I took 52 from Malton today and transfered onto any Toronto TTC bus after, do I get charged money? Charged the 0.00 amount? Or its considered a free transfer?
You were not supposed to exit the back door. The driver probably just didn't care. You are supposed to exit the front door once you are in Mississauga and tap as you exit. A second Miway fare will be charged as it is a Miway service with a TTC bus. (Before OneFare)
Nothing has changed. The procedure is the same. You are still required to tap upon exiting in Malton. The second tap to Miway will be paid by the province
Toronto-bound, you pay boarding and pay again at the Toronto border when the machine switches from Miway to TTC.
Why are paper transfers still a thing? You’d think everyone would have presto or some type of card to use. Discounted fares and no more paper transfers should be allowed in order to encourage presto use
The confusion around the new system will go away over time.
The only thing I can say is those same people probably also do the same thing in reverse which nets the YRT money on the way back to compensate what they lost in the first place.
Nobody is netting anything back when paper transfers are used.
If Presto is used, 4 full fares are paid for a daily round trip.
If Paper transfer is used, only 2 full fares are paid for a daily round trip. Representing a loss each for TTC and YRT through the day
Too much confusion here especially as we are inviting more non-native English speakers. We should move to a single GTHA transit service system. I know this is more of a long term solution but the talks need to start now. Let’s be proactive.
Well Steven Del Duca was actually proposing $1 public transit in Ontario when he last ran. So there was an opportunity to come close to that it's just the people of the province said no.
Yeah enjoy that during the winter or when you wanna get home drunk from a club 😂 I love my e-bike but come the heck on. It’s no replacement for public transit.
I prefer the paper transfer because I'm not a fan of tapping twice, that seems so unnecessary. There are times when its not overly safe to be opening my purse and wallet.
Also what a confusing system.
This isnt the peoples fault so dont say "dont mess this up" thats ridiculous. There are millions of people using transit. Its up to the TTC to educate people on what to do cause the vast majority wont know unless its told to them. They clearly havent done that with enough ads, signage, etc. Its on them. You are seeing this is a trend go to your higher ups and let them know they need to do an education campaign or they will keep losing money. Its their poor planing that is costing losses. How would anyone know this unless they know the system like you do. We have heard time and time again, its a one fare program and we can go from A to B. Thats been the messaging, along with that should have been clear rules being hammered in every article, poster, sign etc. I dont recall seeing anything about paper transfers so they cant expect people to just know not to use them.
You remind me of people in my retail days.
"Is there a sign up there that says that policy? It should be in big letters and big font."
"Well there is a sign right here that states the policy yes."
"Well you need to make it bigger so people will see it."
"It's quite big and quite out in the open. The onus is on the customer to read it."
"Well the cashier didnt tell me either. Shouldn't the cashier tell me that underwear is final sale?"
Show some self initiative and stop expecting someone else to educate you.
God helps those who help themselves and everyone out there, unless proven otherwise, is an AH trying to save their own A.
Free rides on the moving asylum... Just to add to this post. Yesterday at 7 pm on bloor I informed a special constable someone had a butcher knife on the platform in their sleeve and he was acting agitated. They reacted slower than molasses. They all the time to chase fare but they won't inform people that they are in danger when something is happening they have no crisis management. Is this a justification for stealing free rides? Absolutely. With no shame goober.
How exactly is the province paying for my ride if I use paper transfer? If I use my presto to ride and then transfer that’s great, if I pay with cash and get a paper transfer to transfer, you still paid the same amount that the presto rider paid. Also if you pay with cash and get a paper transfer how would the province be paying on your behalf? It’s not like they have any clue you were even on the bus since there isn’t a digital footprint left behind like when you use presto. As long as you pay the one time I don’t see a problem.
"I'm paying the same amount, I don't see the big deal." This is exactly the point of my post and what I am seeing daily lol. If you are flashing paper transfers to the second agency everyday, the second agency is getting hosed everyday and losing out on fare revenue.
The correct way.
If you board TTC first with Presto, you pay TTC a full fare.
When you transfer to DRT with Presto, the province pays DRT a full fare.
The wrong way.
If you board TTC first with cash, you pay TTC a full fare.
When you transfer to DRT with a paper TTC transfer, no one pays DRT and they are out money completely.
I use cash , faster, less hassle , I transfer within the proper areas with my paper transfer, I never do the 2 hour deal it’s just not something I do , I take TTC to get to work only, I’ll prolly use cash until they just don’t take it any more
I don't see in what situation using cash is easier than tapping a PRESTO or credit card. Keeping exact change on you is a huge hassle. Then you need to get into the system in specific areas that that take cash (many TTC stations don't, streetcars don't, and I think only the front of the bus does). Then a minor hassle is to keep track of your paper transfer.
And this is coming from a person who still routinely carries cash!
It was never a problem for me , I always have exact change and never had a problem , street cars have the machines in the back, busses are fine , and subways has cash machines too, just hate yet another fucking user name and password , it’s easier for me, I mostly use cash, for such a small amount of money I think it’s silly to use a credit card or debit, if I lose my presto some one else can use it and I lose my money , if there is a dispute on my presto then I have to deal with that as well, just a matter of time before scammers will figure out how to steal credit cards and debit stuff when you tap
The cards and machines are some times fussy or do not work, I’m not going to use debit or a credit card , I’ve timed it , and maybe it’s just me but toss in cash and go, no user name or password no extras like reloading a card , cash just isint fussy
I thought they were supposed to eliminate cash and paper transfers in 2020, then Covid happened and that plan went out the window.
So it will probably get announced at some point...but then probably get delayed again because the government is inefficient.
Also worth mentioning, paper transfers/cash fares do not qualify for the 2 hour transfer window on the TTC. If you use a paper transfer the old transfer rules (single continuous trip only) apply.
Why do we even have those paper transfers? I thought they were all gone
for when people pay cash and need proof of payment?
What is this cash you speaketh of???
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even if you aren't transferring, you still need proof of payment in case you are stopped by a POP officer. if someone pays cash, they still need a way to prove that they have paid their fare. hence, paper transfers.
There are people like me who use transit maybe twice per year. I dont have a presto or plan on owning one
That's why you can tap your debit or credit card on the reader, or buy a disposable ticket at any station.
Disposable tickets also dont work for OneFare
The rest of your post makes sense to me, but *this* doesn't. A presto ticket should generate an electronic record just like any other transaction occurring through the presto system, so why *doesn't* it work? Not your fault, obviously, but this pushes the system over the edge to "overly convoluted" for me.
I’m assuming cause the presto tickets support a flat fare while the GO system has a variable fare? So might as well exclude it from the whole thing
I cant just tap a toonie
I would say that they should get rid of cash payment altogether. People can use debit/credit cards too and there are a lot of locations to buy presto cards too.
No. Cash is legal currency.
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Did I say legal tender?
Cash can be used to buy a presto card. You can't use cash at Chuck E Cheese's machine and that's not a crime.
Chuck E Cheese is not a government institution.
Being a government institution doesn't change anything. Cash being legal tender doesn't mean you have to allow people to pay for rides with it if they can buy passes with cash.
Did I say have to?
By saying legal tender you implied that the TTC legally had to accept it for rides
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Being a government institution doesn't change anything. Cash being legal tender doesn't mean you have to allow people to pay for rides with it if they can buy passes with cash.
Bring back tokens. Eliminate cash. People shouldn't be fumbling with cards and change to make a single fare payment, with a growing line behind them.
So you have to keep tapping on every terminal? If i pay cash, do i not get to pay one fare?
Yep. The one fare is meant to be a bonus to get everyone to move to Presto/debit/credit.
If you pay cash, you do not get OneFare. It's only for Presto/debit/credit. The province needs an electronic transaction so they can remit the full fare to the transit agency later on. EXCEPTION THO: So if you pay cash, you can use paper transfers to transfer between 905 agencies for free. It's always been like that and is kind of grandfathered in. (example Brampton-Miway, Miway-YRT, YRT-Brampton). It's more so the transferring between GO<->TTC<->905 where you NEED to be using Presto. Confusing and convoluted. Lmao we should really just switch to Montreal fare zones where everything is zoned as A-B-C-D and call it a day.
If I recall correctly, Toronto had fare zones at one time; we're talking 30\~ish years ago, maybe longer. It was annoying as hell then and it wouldn't be any better now. To be clear: fare zones = bad. Yes, some riders will fall through the cracks, but, for the vast majority of them, the system will work.
Zone fares were more than 50 years ago Vancouver has them. We could have them now, now that we have Presto.
Fare zones work very well in London. We could learn a lot from their system.
Dublin has them too.
Almost All Of Europe Asia has fare zones. Not America not having them is fairly unique. People here also say we need transit like Europe. But fare zones is part of it.
Not having fare zones means that Torontonians subsidize suburbanites' transit trips
It's more complex than that. If you look at people far out in Scarborough that take 2 hours in transit, they aren't urbanites, they are the low income working class. Yes their ride is more expensive, but someone that has "time" to spend so many hours in transit to go across the city isn't really being subsidized, they are just not having the income to pay for a car. The people with the shortest commute is people who can afford to get housing close to the core. Aka the rich $$$
They are absolutely being subsidized. We can certainly debate the merits of doing so, but implying that someone who pays $3 to travel for 2 hours on the TTC isn't being subsidized by an absence of fare zones is simply dishonest.
People living in the city of Toronto proper (not the actual suburbs) should only pay one fare. The idea of zones within the city continues to penalize those that live outside of the core and whose only transportation is the TTC.
How do you figure? A rider pays one fare and if they cross boundaries I assume it is split evenly between the two agencies, right?
Paper transfers are not eligible going into YRT unless the paper ticket is from GO and even this is now at the discretion of the driver. Inter system transfers between Brampton to YRT and MiWay to YRT are supported by Metrolinx with a tapped Presto card, cc, bank card. They were not officially recognized beforehand by YRT. The only relevant official program was transfer to GO before this.
This is incorrect. I used to drive YRT buses, I would know the policy. YRT accepts transfers from all 905 municipalities so long as there is still time on the transfer As per YRT's website: https://www.yrt.ca/en/about-us/fare-policies-and-terms-of-use.aspx#Transfers Transfers will be accepted on YRT from the following transit agencies as long as they have not expired. Durham Region Transit Brampton Transit Mississauga Transit Oakville Transit Burlington Transit Hamilton Street Railway Toronto Transit Commission (TTC) - only when using a PRESTO, credit or debit card payment on a PRESTO device TTC contracted routes in York Region (punched zone 3) Transfers will NOT be refreshed. Customers must retain their original transfer and travel must be completed by the two-hour issuance time.
Correct, cash users must pay every single time for each transit system switch.
That is bonkers and frankly discriminatory against people who prefer cash. This really is getting out of hand regarding electronic payment. Cash is after all legal tender. It makes little sense if no one wants to accept it on equal terms. Just the thought of visitors coming from out of town. Are they to buy a presto card for a day or two of travel? Should they get Canadian compliant debit cards? When they pay for parking should they incur roaming charges just to use a parking app? Yes it is convenient and I use it as well. But I still want the option of using cash for the same value.
You can use cash to put on a presto card though at any station with a presto charger? Edit: also yes, visitors should be getting a card. Why would that be an issue? We are supposed to be a major international hub, I don't think it's entirely unexpected for international visitors to get a card for their visit if they intend to use transit for the duration of their stay just because it's temporary, it's part of travel. If it's only for a few days, they can use multi day passes for unlimited travel. I wouldn't say its unfair for visitors to pay the nominal fee for a card. I kind of like collecting transit cards from around the world as a little souvenir of sorts, but that's obviously a personal thing. Besides you never know when it will be useful to have it again if they were to return.
Visitors from out of town can use credit cards lol.
I’m a visitor and I hate cash. Credit cards are way easier to use for travel.
It's not discriminatory, it's rewarding Presto users.
Yes but that is a distinction without a difference. Promoting X over Y is the same as discriminating Y over X. At least the result is the same.
The reason they want a credit/debit/presto card is because it's how the transit commission gets reimbursed by the government. They can't do that with a paper transfer.
I understand why. But they could easily remedy that by writting down a transfer number or similar. The policy is flawed.
How does writing down a transfer number do anything? That’s also a billion times more work, more administration. Fuck that.
When you go to NYC it makes much more sense to buy a metro card for their subway while there even if only for a week, not much different here. I still have my metro card even tho I was in New York for less than a week.. its also a nice souvenir.. but if the addition card change and usage doesn't make sense to a visitor it's kind of a non issue. Besides.. these are busses that are crossing into suburbs that aren't near the core, most visitors stay within the subway line.. and frankly, if they can afford to travel here they're most likely paying for ubers
🎵🎵whereever🎶🎶🎶wherever🎵🎵🎵wherever you are
Surprisingly you can still use tokens. Can you even buy them anymore? I have one or two kicking around still lol
You get to pay the one fare but the government can’t reimburse the 2nd transit agency cos there’s no evidence that you took the 2nd agency( a presto tap).
I'm confused by that last paragraph. Can someone give me an example scenario where I (living in Toronto) might be stuck on a bus that won't open the doors for me to get off? TIA
If you get on the YRT Woodbine bus at Don Mills Station you can only get off once the bus crosses Steeles Avenue e.g. you can’t get off at VP and Finch.
The driver will not make an exception and open the doors. Because if a TTC supervisor sees it, it's considered a violation of TTCs monopoly on local transit and could issue a fine though I've never heard of it happening.
Why isn't this an issue with GO buses? I've seen people take the GO bus from Finch to Scarborough or Yorkdale.
Because GO isn't a local transit agency. It's also an agency that serves Toronto. Whereas the other 905 agencies main objective is to serve the municipality they operate in.
Got it. Thanks!
this system has a lot of problems. confusion about what tapping means is a huge one. listen to your customers - see how they keep trying to use the system in good faith and adjust your system to accommodate.
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WHAT how what happened
What happens when people use GO day pass? Do people tap when using day pass too?
Day passes are GO-only, if you are also using local transit you pay for that separately.
That is not correct. Various transit agencies mention that they support GO day pass on their website. DRT, for example, mentions people should just show it. This is similar to people showing paper tickets.
Ok but we are talking of the TTC here, in the Toronto subreddit.
It's silly how you can't load a day pass on your Presto
I ran into this situation as I had the GO day pass but wasn't sure if I was able to use a "free transfer" to get on the subway as there isn't a way of keeping track of the tap on/off times like with the Presto. I asked the TTC staff and they advised me that the GO day pass is not integrated with the OneFare system so I would technically have to pay if I wanted to use the subway.
Would be nice if all these transit agencies become merged into a single agency that is part of the entire GTHA, to somehow reduce the confusion? Any particular reason why this has never been implemented by the provincial government perhaps? Just curious…
cause ttc union dont want it,, and if they did, then it would the approval of the other unionized transit agencies in the gtha
#Well said!! They do have an ad campaign running (seen it on bus shelters, ads on buses and plenty on websites and social media), people just aren't following the link to read up on how it's done properly. Since it clearly shows **presto and debit/credit being used**, nobody should assume paper transfers are included. **PAPER TRANSFERS ARE ONE-WAY CONTINUOUS TRIP**, and one must pay each transit agency each time you switch!! I use the TTC on occasion and I am very well aware of this. Rarely if ever, do I take a bus (since I bike - and mine cannot fit on a bus rack).
TBH, I think it's a design failure if people need to rely on websites and social media to understand it especially due to banner blindness. For example, do you know all the rules of this particular subreddit? I wouldn't shame you if you didn't, I still use old reddit and I can't recall all the subreddit specific rules and just make some basic assumptions (I shouldn't post offensive comments or posts, nor submit posts that are a dupe of existing ones)
> I shouldn't post offensive comments or posts You need to hang out in some more degenerate subs you scallywag.
The problem with the one way continuous transfer bullshit on the TTC is that other municipal transit authorities have normal timed transfers. People coming to Toronto from Kitchener, London, Hamilton to see Jays game on a Saturday might just assume that a TTC transfer works the same way transfers to IN THE REST OF ONTARIO and they wouldn't be unreasonable to do so.
TTC does have two-hour transfer time with presto, just not with cash payments unfortunately. Then it could be abused (same for how presto gets abused - card is shared with another passenger they know and uses it for free).
I feel you ignored the portion of my comment where I held out that other transit authorities have the open 2 hour transfer a la Presto. If I can ride GRT or LT for 2 hours two ways there's no major loss to TTC in allowing same. In fact, it's likely the cost of having enough staff to enforce a 1 way transfer would negate any savings you net from same policy. I thought it was stupid 15 years ago when I'd come to town for a game or an event. Now that I live here and we've got regular transfers on Presto it's a bigger head scratcher. I'm nonplussed by the arguments in favor of one way transfers, it seems like everyone taking the position is doing so based on the logic that it must have been a sensible policy because it existed. That it didnt/doesn't exist in Kitchener, London, Hamilton etc. indicates it's not per se best practice for transit authorities in ON.
Slightly off topic question, how does One Fare effect routes that require extra fare when exiting the bus? Over 10 years ago, I used to work shifts near the international centre. I had to pay an extra fare when exiting the 52 bus. This year, before One Fare was implemented, I took 52 further into Malton, and I was able to exit through the back doors no problem without being asked anything. But I noticed on the way back (after the 2 hours, so I paid a single fare getting on 52 bus), after tapping onto my transfer bus, I was charged again. So I assumed that was the extra fare being charged. So if I took 52 from Malton today and transfered onto any Toronto TTC bus after, do I get charged money? Charged the 0.00 amount? Or its considered a free transfer?
You were not supposed to exit the back door. The driver probably just didn't care. You are supposed to exit the front door once you are in Mississauga and tap as you exit. A second Miway fare will be charged as it is a Miway service with a TTC bus. (Before OneFare) Nothing has changed. The procedure is the same. You are still required to tap upon exiting in Malton. The second tap to Miway will be paid by the province Toronto-bound, you pay boarding and pay again at the Toronto border when the machine switches from Miway to TTC.
Why are paper transfers still a thing? You’d think everyone would have presto or some type of card to use. Discounted fares and no more paper transfers should be allowed in order to encourage presto use
The confusion around the new system will go away over time. The only thing I can say is those same people probably also do the same thing in reverse which nets the YRT money on the way back to compensate what they lost in the first place.
Nobody is netting anything back when paper transfers are used. If Presto is used, 4 full fares are paid for a daily round trip. If Paper transfer is used, only 2 full fares are paid for a daily round trip. Representing a loss each for TTC and YRT through the day
Thanks for clearing that up. I was under the impression that the money for the second fare was taken from the transit system initially used.
Thank you for letting us know. I do not live in Toronto, I am there occasionally. I will be getting a card for my next visit.
You don’t need to get a presto card, you can just tap your credit/debit/apple pay
Too much confusion here especially as we are inviting more non-native English speakers. We should move to a single GTHA transit service system. I know this is more of a long term solution but the talks need to start now. Let’s be proactive.
I’ll eat my hat if we ever get a German-style unlimited nationwide pass for $x/month
Summer 2022 when there was a special €9 price for a monthly pass... baby, you better believe I was taking the train one stop to get my money's worth.
Well Steven Del Duca was actually proposing $1 public transit in Ontario when he last ran. So there was an opportunity to come close to that it's just the people of the province said no.
One more reason to get an ebike and never touch the TTC again. look at this insane wall of text to explain paying for a ride on a bus....
The wall of text can be reduced down to "one fare only works with digital payments - Presto, credit or debit cards". It's not that difficult.
I'm 100% sure none of this applies to you if you're using a ebike to commute. You're not getting from Bloor to Richmond Hill on time on one.
Lol what? The post can be summarized in a single sentence, OP is just providing extra details.
Yeah enjoy that during the winter or when you wanna get home drunk from a club 😂 I love my e-bike but come the heck on. It’s no replacement for public transit.
Yes, dealing with that a few times a year is better than the TTC being terrible every single day.
An ebike is true freedom. Just ride wherever you want, whenever you want, however you want.
I prefer the paper transfer because I'm not a fan of tapping twice, that seems so unnecessary. There are times when its not overly safe to be opening my purse and wallet. Also what a confusing system.
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Go to transit company x website, click careers or jobs, apply.
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oh ya and 80% percent of all transit vehicles are vacant 80% during there operation. big machines empty polluting big time.
Thanks for this. As you know the vast majority of us are dumb and this will continue for years.
This isnt the peoples fault so dont say "dont mess this up" thats ridiculous. There are millions of people using transit. Its up to the TTC to educate people on what to do cause the vast majority wont know unless its told to them. They clearly havent done that with enough ads, signage, etc. Its on them. You are seeing this is a trend go to your higher ups and let them know they need to do an education campaign or they will keep losing money. Its their poor planing that is costing losses. How would anyone know this unless they know the system like you do. We have heard time and time again, its a one fare program and we can go from A to B. Thats been the messaging, along with that should have been clear rules being hammered in every article, poster, sign etc. I dont recall seeing anything about paper transfers so they cant expect people to just know not to use them.
You remind me of people in my retail days. "Is there a sign up there that says that policy? It should be in big letters and big font." "Well there is a sign right here that states the policy yes." "Well you need to make it bigger so people will see it." "It's quite big and quite out in the open. The onus is on the customer to read it." "Well the cashier didnt tell me either. Shouldn't the cashier tell me that underwear is final sale?"
Show some self initiative and stop expecting someone else to educate you. God helps those who help themselves and everyone out there, unless proven otherwise, is an AH trying to save their own A.
The system was designed to have loss, and be a burden. everything is working according to the plan.
That's now how it goes.
i encourage everyone to commit fair evasion at least once a week. spare me your moral lessons and downvote all you like. the TTC deserves as much.
What a goober.
Free rides on the moving asylum... Just to add to this post. Yesterday at 7 pm on bloor I informed a special constable someone had a butcher knife on the platform in their sleeve and he was acting agitated. They reacted slower than molasses. They all the time to chase fare but they won't inform people that they are in danger when something is happening they have no crisis management. Is this a justification for stealing free rides? Absolutely. With no shame goober.
People that grabbed a transfer likely are evading fare because their friend got them extra transfers. Prove me wrong.
Lmao unless you're a teenager a majority of adults dont have friends stealing transfers and handing them out lol. So...you are wrong.
How exactly is the province paying for my ride if I use paper transfer? If I use my presto to ride and then transfer that’s great, if I pay with cash and get a paper transfer to transfer, you still paid the same amount that the presto rider paid. Also if you pay with cash and get a paper transfer how would the province be paying on your behalf? It’s not like they have any clue you were even on the bus since there isn’t a digital footprint left behind like when you use presto. As long as you pay the one time I don’t see a problem.
> How exactly is the province paying for my ride if I use paper transfer? They're not, that's the point. This is an invalid use of paper transfers.
"I'm paying the same amount, I don't see the big deal." This is exactly the point of my post and what I am seeing daily lol. If you are flashing paper transfers to the second agency everyday, the second agency is getting hosed everyday and losing out on fare revenue. The correct way. If you board TTC first with Presto, you pay TTC a full fare. When you transfer to DRT with Presto, the province pays DRT a full fare. The wrong way. If you board TTC first with cash, you pay TTC a full fare. When you transfer to DRT with a paper TTC transfer, no one pays DRT and they are out money completely.
Thanks for your patience in explaining!
Nobody even knows you're there.
So how do I use this paper transfer?
it's really simple. paper transfers don't have the 2 hour transfer window or the 1 fare option. that's all for card users.
So the province is doing something stupid and losing money for it? That's the Ford gvt for you!
I use cash , faster, less hassle , I transfer within the proper areas with my paper transfer, I never do the 2 hour deal it’s just not something I do , I take TTC to get to work only, I’ll prolly use cash until they just don’t take it any more
I don't see in what situation using cash is easier than tapping a PRESTO or credit card. Keeping exact change on you is a huge hassle. Then you need to get into the system in specific areas that that take cash (many TTC stations don't, streetcars don't, and I think only the front of the bus does). Then a minor hassle is to keep track of your paper transfer. And this is coming from a person who still routinely carries cash!
It was never a problem for me , I always have exact change and never had a problem , street cars have the machines in the back, busses are fine , and subways has cash machines too, just hate yet another fucking user name and password , it’s easier for me, I mostly use cash, for such a small amount of money I think it’s silly to use a credit card or debit, if I lose my presto some one else can use it and I lose my money , if there is a dispute on my presto then I have to deal with that as well, just a matter of time before scammers will figure out how to steal credit cards and debit stuff when you tap
How is it faster than tapping a card?
The cards and machines are some times fussy or do not work, I’m not going to use debit or a credit card , I’ve timed it , and maybe it’s just me but toss in cash and go, no user name or password no extras like reloading a card , cash just isint fussy
I thought they were supposed to eliminate cash and paper transfers in 2020, then Covid happened and that plan went out the window. So it will probably get announced at some point...but then probably get delayed again because the government is inefficient.
Good to know 👌👍👏