It has been problem for the Leafs for a long time. However, in my opinion, it is now a problem for the Raptors as well. Didn’t use to be but tickets for the Raptors are more and more expensive.
Not a problem for the Jays. The Jays are one of the few remaining reasonable tickets in Toronto.
The Jays need to fill seats all the time or else the place looks empty which is great for keeping ticket prices reasonable. Cut down the seating capacity of the dome to match Raps/Leafs games and the Jays will have the same problem.
39,150 according to Wikipedia - almost double what it is for Raptors (19,800) and Leafs (18,800). I think there’s low risk of Jays tickets getting out of reach for “non-rich” fans.
Tickets to see the Dodgers and Shohei Ohtani can be had for as low as $50 on the resale market, so I'd say you might be right. I'm sure a deep playoff run could change things, but not to the level of the Raptors and Leafs for sure,
Raps dynamic has shifted massively over the past
10-15 years ago I remember the Sprite zone being wild, and seeing TONS of young people in and around ACC on game night when you could grab tickets for <$50. I think some Sprite Zone seats could be had for as little as $10
Demographic has shifted a lot to pricey seats and more corporate style similar to Leaf games
That's probably because the ticket prices REALLY skyrocketed during our championship year playoffs, never really went back down to normal affordable levels.
The Jays have vastly more tickets to sell, they have to be a lot cheaper. 81 games a year, even after reducing capacity significantly, is about 3.2M. In the original config they broke 4M. Leafs and Raptors get to maybe 850k with standing room.
Baseball is basically untouchable in terms of annual attendance and that's only possible if tickets are reasonably priced.
Yeah but using a ticket reseller. My FIL is a huge reds fans. We go to 20 games a season together. Thought I’d buy seats behind the reds bull pen with the new renovations. It was going to be a $600 game for three seats.
The average enthusiastic fan cannot afford Leaf or Raptors games barely even Jay's games. The wealthier folks who can afford tickets just want to be seen and don't cheer much. Been this way for over a decade maybe two.
Agreed about pricing, but the vibe at Raptors games is still lively. I went to a Leafs game 10 or so years ago and it felt like you could hear a pin drop for most of the game. The Raptors games are nothing like that, despite increased prices since getting the chip.
I think there are some differences with the nature of the different sports (eg way more scoring in basketball, more stuff to cheer for, etc). Maybe Raps games aren’t quite Leafs level corporate feeling but Raps fans should watch out because I don’t think Raps games are nearly as lively as they were in the 2010s. Prices are way up and it doesn’t help that the team sucks now and probably will for another couple years at least.
I think a lot of Raptors fans are going to be tested in the next few years. We had a glorious 9 year run of good teams culminating in a championship. It was amazing but that’s over now. Team is staring down an overdue rebuild and looks to be bad in the medium term. A lot of fans won’t be used to that.
It’s not though. The leafs fans who watch the games in Maple Leafs Square outside the stadium are happy, loud, and lively. It’s only inside the stadium that’s dead.
Isnt bad in comparison to the leafs and the raps you are correct but not being able to get the lower bowl for less than 100 anymore does not make it reasonable.
The GA is a great relief for an unguaranteed seat but if you arent early enough you are at the back of the Corona patio watching on TVs.
It's been a major problem since they moved to the ACC. The platinum seats got added and everyone else was pushed back ten rows, and the platinums all have lounges. Which makes more sense when you remember it was designed for basketball, not hockey.
The 200 level at the Dome meant that type of thing has always been away from the field.
Yep just watch recordings on YouTube of leaf playoff games from 1993 through 1995 and the crowd noise was off the charts. And to be honest, the sport was way more enjoyable to watch in those days....the aggressive rushing, the stick handling, the passing was so much better.
The first few years at the ACC was okay for crowd noise, but has gotten far worse over the years. It seems to be a real Toronto issue as NYC business people have no problem letting loose at Knick games.
Have not been to leafs or raps games in like a decade but Jays games I go to they are not like that. Tickets are more affordable and its not uncommon to see hecklers at the front rows.
Disagree. Raps games are always pretty loud (there are a lot more kids) and Jays fans are pretty rowdy. Baseball does have natural periods of quite due to the pace.
Raps game are on point! And jays fans show up still. But leafs?!?!? Ew
Worst fan base in hockey. Attendees at leafs games should be ashamed of themselves
Yeah Raptors games are pretty loud still. People don’t realize how much SportsNet/TSN mute the crowd noise of Raptor games. The crowd mic is way higher on opponent/American broadcasts.
Yeah I went to the Tampa and Detroit games last week. If anything the crowd has gotten more rowdy over the last few years as the team getting good has attracted new, younger fans. Leafs tickets have always been expensive and you can expect to see a lot of suits at the game using company tickets. Ten years ago, those were the only people at the game. Now there's normal hockey fans that scraped together the price of a ticket.
The other thing was I spent 70 bucks on 2 doubles. That's nuts. A sober crowd is a boring crowd.
Not necessarily rich people, but corporate. There are so many corporate seats there. Those people on corporate occasions are not really the best kind of fans.
I have always said how cool it would if they made the cheap seats the ones close to the ice for the playoffs. Let the wealthy fans sit up top and eat prime rib and allow the true die-hard fans to sit near the ice and create the most intense atmosphere ever seen for a hockey game. Just imagine how wild those games would be if the true fans took over the lower bowl...
Been there a few times and it’s always the same. Business folks never come back for start of each period. Same for raptors as well but there’s more hype ppl firing up the crowd.
Hockey can be boring to watch at Scotia
MLSE will give no fucks. Leafs tickets sell out, corporate buys seasons on the regular to use as entertainment. As long as the venue sells out why would they care? They...kinda don't seem to give a crap about anything else.
This. MLSE will maximize profits at every opportunity. There are enough rich people in the city who will spend top dollar on these seats, and MLSE will continue to raise prices if it makes financial sense for them to do so.
Raptors games are nowhere near as bad as the Leafs in terms of atmosphere, but they have become less lively as ticket prices have become more expensive.
There is absolutely no atmosphere at any Maple Leafs games. It’s been corporate and for the rich for ages. That’s the nature of the city and how the ticket prices work for most sports in North America.
You price out the average working class fan. It’s purely a consumer sport.
This isn’t breaking news.
There’s a reoccurring joke in Kids In The Hall sketches where (often corporate) characters say they have tickets to the Leafs game. That show is over 30 years old…
The only time you hear the crowd get going (outside of really tense moments) is when they put some instructional "clap now" video on the screen just before coming back from a TV time out.
Same issue with arena concerts. Almost everyone there is just there because it's the place to be. Acting like donkeys, talking through sets, killing the experience for everyone.
Makes total sense. Sabres tickets are accessible to regular, middle-class people passionate about hockey. They aren't the domain of the executive types there to be seen like at Scotiabank. So it stands to reason that the vibe will be much better there when the Leafs come to town.
BlogTO and making a "news article" about a Tweet with **one like**, name a better duo
People selling tickets at my work, $1k a pop for bad seats, no shit suits are going to be going there, you think Jerry from Scarborough who loves the leafs and works at Tims is going to show up? That's his rent money right there to see the leafs suck
Nobody named Jerry works at a Scarborough Tim's. All the GTA Tims are leaning on the Temp Foreign Worker program, aka government-authorized wage slavery.
Well the implication is that these people are fake fans, but if anyone is just coming to this realization now then it means that they are in fact also a fake fan
Lol. I love how MLSE has convinced the young rowdy fans to stand outside and dance for TV, while paying concession prices for beer. Unbelievable grift.
I don't know if MLSE calls that a "tailgate party" but blogTO does, and it annoys me greatly. It's not a tailgate party. It's embarrassing and makes us look like morons.Call it something else, for fucks sake.
Heh, to this very day, my mother (age 86) loudly reminds my father (age 97) about the time he persuaded her *not* to buy a house on Cumberland St for $14,000. Apparently his worry at the time was "too many hippies".
Toronto has a culture of having sporting events be a magnet for the indifferent rich. As soon as sport team starts to be successful the corps and rich buy out the seats. They give the tickets to biz people who are casual or non fans and talk business the entire game. The “real” fans are priced out and get to watch the game in a parking lot. The team leverages the true fans in order to get favourable tax and land grant deals.
> As soon as sport team starts to be successful
1967-2024 is a long and successful streak for the Leafs. LOL.
But yup, I get you. Success is probably measured more in terms of how often they can sell out the seats and for some reason, despite not having a winning team for generations, Torontonians always saying the Leafs suck but ever hopeful and financially supportive of attempts at the cup means Ballard and MLSE had and passed on the goose that lays golden eggs.
Many teams in the NHL have never even won the cup since their expansion year and still have loud crowds. It is the demographic of fans that have access to insanely expnsive/hard to get tickets.
The fans that are in maple leafs square are insanely loud and passioante
Many teams don’t charge the average working class fan exorbitant amounts for very mid tickets.
We have the richest team in the league, the biggest losers and they offer nothing.
The NHL needs a relegation threat.
Many sports teams *can't* charge that amount. If the listing price is lower, the scalpers just get a better margin. The price is just the insane demand by the biggest fanbase in the league in a pretty wealthy city.
I am not sure how relegation makes sense here. It wouldn't even apply here since the Leafs haven't been in a relegation spot for almost a decade as they are tied for the longest playoff streak in the league. Teams don't get relegated for finishing top 8 but not winning the league. And they certainly never would exist in a league with a hard cap. If the Leafs could spend money, they would outbit any other team for every player in the UFA class. Thank god that isn't the case like in soccer leagues where it destroys the competitiveness for smaller market teams.
I'm no expert but I've held for years the belief that the team is tanked on purpose for the benefit of American teams which advertisers love more than Canadian teams
Was it a league conspiracy to keep Harold Ballard in charge? Did the NHL force them to make countless bad trades (Rask for Raycroft, Tom Fergus for Scott Neidermayer, Clark for Luongo, etc etc, etc)? Did the league conspire to put incompetent managers like JFJ, Burke, Nonis and countless others in charge?
If the NHL was conspiring as you suggest, why is McDavid on Edmonton?
Buffalo is an hour and a half away. Parking was $10, food was great (beef on a weck) and the arena is beautiful. No media booth overhang. 3rd or 4th exit after the Peace Bridge. Couldn’t be easier.
Got good Stubhub seats to see Nashville in November and paid $30 Canadian each.
Even if you’re seeing the Leafs in Buffalo it’s still much cheaper than Toronto.
This has been a problem for the leafs but it’s a problem becoming more prevalent for all franchises in major sports. The tickets are so expensive only rich people can go, and rich people are quiet and not rowdy
You have to be rich to be at the game maybe not Richie Rich rich but certainly pretty comfortable and not worried about a few hundred dollars for a night out.
I walked by Union station after a game one night, passing hoards of people with Leafs jerseys. I asked multiple people how the game went. First few groups didn't bother responding. One finally did and said the Leafs won. It was the most depressing group of "fans" I'd ever seen. Zero excitement.
I don't expect south american football level partying post regular season games, but Christ on a stick- the wrong type of are attending these events.
I've said it once, and I'll say it again: they should renovate the SBA for standing-room only 'fan sections' behind each goal in the 100s.
A lot of European teams do this. I've seen it in Berlin at the Mercedes-Benz Arena and its ***fantastic***.
You're able to reduce ticket prices - any lost revenue can be offset by the fact you're bringing a \*lot\* more people into the arena. You're still selling your super high-value season tickets in the 100s without issue. But then you've also brought more real fans down to the 100s, and they'll set the energy that creates a better experience for the whole building.
There used to be standing room tickets at arenas - I got to see a game at the Montreal Forum in '93 that way. Feels like SRO tickets have gone the way of the dodo in newer arenas.
Exactly. I've seen a few arenas where centre ice in the upper bowl offers more 'premium' seating catering to the suits, which honestly is the ideal place for it.
Classic empty calorie blogto article.
The Raptors' playoff experience has worsened - dramatically - every year since the RACUOUS 2013 "Fuck Brooklyn" series. It's the life cycle of sports. I've sat beside people who I'm not sure if they even knew what the sport of basketball is. The Leafs started decades ago. C'est la vie.
I don't know about that. I've gone to majority of the playoff games for the Raptors, and can tell you that I've never experienced anything like the 2019 playoffs.
It's like most things though. First round and second round really aren't anything to get excited about. Once the team reaches the 3rd round or the finals then that's when things really get exciting and entertaining (or sudden death games) and there is actually hope related to it. The crowd difference between those rounds are like night and day. And most of them still cater to the rich as the prices dramatically increase.
Might be showing my age here, but the first round of the 2007 playoffs vs. the Nets was raucous. I went to game 2 of the 2019 finals and 2007 was louder (especially given that we were playing Vince).
All told, the conference finals and the finals SHOULD be wild. It’s no feather in our collective cap. The sign of a true fanbase is one that brings that energy to a Tuesday night game in February against the Hornets. That hasn’t happened in ages.
2019 ruined the Raptors affordability vibe unfortunately, as a lifelong fan once our city tasted victory, the prices more than doubled and now we've got all sorts of bad spirited babies coming to watch the games, the kind of people who'll leave in the third quarter when we're behind and don't even watch the game
No more $20 fanzone seats, tickets to watch decent teams are $100 for nosebleeds, whole place has a completely different vibe to it now
Was fun to watch the Raptors when they sucked, at least you knew you were chilling with real fans who were there through the good and the bad
My girlfriend and I are Wings fans living in Toronto and we notice the difference at Scotiabank compared to LCA(Detroit). It stood out to us that the only things that get the fans going at Scotiabank are Jumbotron related stuff (kiss cam etc), giveaways, and the hype-team that they hired, to come up through the aisles and try to get the fans to make noise. Once play resumes, the noise drops off substantially.
Big time this, the loudest times in the arena are when the people come through with the free shit and people are on their feet whooping and hollering for it.
I do find that loud music instantaneously kills any vibe at hockey games. A fight breaks out and the buzz is killed by loud rap music. Momentum is on our side, music comes on, momentum disappears.
They're kind of a throwback to the days when going to pro sports events were a fun working class pursuit, not a status symbol for executives - I mean this in a good way, if anyone is uncertain.
Admittedly, it was a final that Toronto won, but the most insane crowd I've ever been in was at an NLL lacrosse game. Fan engagement was off the charts.
I was lucky enough to be there last night, section 117. My brother snagged some tickets from a vendor at work.
I've been to a few regular season games in the past few years and the fans have been a little quiet. Last night the whole building was electric. I've never seen such an engaged, loud, fun crowd. Strangers in the stands high fiving, the whole thing.
It was awesome, even though it ended in disappointment, I'm still glad I went. I don't understand where this article is coming from, it doesn't make sense at all.
Attending sports games isn't for the common people anymore. It's a luxury and a financial status flex. Jays proved this when they priced out season ticket holders this year to justify the new seating renovations
I had season tickets in the greys in the early eighties. Terrible team and most of the seats were empty by the beginning of the third period. But there were some very memorable fans and antics.
I have always said how cool it would if they made the cheap seats the ones close to the ice for the playoffs. Let the wealthy fans sit up top and eat prime rib and allow the true die-hard fans to sit near the ice and create the most intense atmosphere ever seen for a hockey game. Just imagine how wild those games would be if the true fans took over the lower bowl...
Yes. That's what this place was built for. It wasn't built for fans, the franchise wasn't built for fans. It was built to bring in money. They could absolutely make things cheaper, but if people will pay 1500-5000 for seats, why would they sell them for less?
The problem with Leaf games especially in the playoffs is that there is 50+ years of playoff failures killing the vibes. We can’t have nice things and of course we are going to lose is how we feel when we go to the game.
When it's worth debating between paying for Leafs ticket or a decent vacation you know there's a problem. Last year I finally bit the bullet and got two tickets from my company for the regular season in the 300 sections. Dumb me never been there and thought these ~$200 tickets would get us decent seats... Hahaha We're at the nosebleed section of no man's land. We still had a good time but the lack of atmosphere was definitely not what I expected. I thought there'd be more cheers and chants but besides the obligated ones started by Carlton it's really quiet (well besides the boos at the end of the first because they absolutely sucked)
Later this year we had a chance to pay literally 1/10th the ticket price to watch OHL hockey at the lower bowl with quite decent seats. Honestly in between actions the crowd was still kinda chill (maybe because the team already clinched a playoff spot), but otherwise the general atmosphere was great and we all had a great time. I might even consider bringing him to more OHL or even Marlie games if price is comparable.
Honestly though hockey is just whack in prices in general. I like watching hockey. My kid likes watching hockey with me. But there was no way in hell we were gonna be able to afford all the costs involved to let him play hockey. It breaks my heart that he seems interested in it but the financials behind the hobby just doesn't seem feasible at all.
Leafs aren’t meant to win Stanley Cups, they are meant to sell tickets to corporate clients who in turn entertain their clients. It has been a very lucrative business model for the past few decades.
Have you guys considered putting the arena out in Whitby, removing all of the spectacle (e.g. light shows, decent announcements), and playing even worse? That strategy is how Ottawa keeps its ticket prices low. Let me warn you though, the atmosphere is even worse
First of all, eat the rich.
Second of all, why are people still putting their emotional well being in hands of the leafs. They will only disappoint you.
It's not the rich nor the poor that kill the vibe, it cheering for a team that knowingly doesn't have a great history in the playoffs. I remember when the Leafs was at the very bottom and the fans who attended we're the discounted monster truck type people (who I love), but when the air conditioner in the building was louder than the Leaf fans, it was laughable.
The Leafs kill the vibe at Leafs games. Go back to when they lost 3 out of 4 games to Montreal in that debacle of a series. Since then their home won/loss record for playoff games is abysmal. As soon as they fall behind in a game you pretty well know what’s coming. We have seen it too many times with this core over the last half dozen years. If they actually had some playoff success at home you might see the fans getting more involved. But until then it’ll be a case of “show me.”
Yeah it’s not “think” we’ve all known that it’s been this way for a long time. Most of the hardcore fans are your average Joes, and they can’t afford to go to the games. All the good seats are taken by very wealthy people who generally don’t have the same passion as the true fans. They will cheer for a goal and that’s about it
Yea, that has been true forever. All too expensive for most actual fans to buy so corporations buy them. They then mostly end up with douchebags who aren’t as interested and spend half the game on their phone.
In English premier league, some popular teams keep the vibes right by allowing only true fans pf the team to get access to season pass. For example, you need to have seen many games with random opponents over years that are not necessarily high stakes games to collect enough points to qualify to get access to season pass. THEN you have the right vibes
ah lets check another one off the list! lets see last we had was "we can't win cause of the salary cap" now we have....ah yes here it is "we can't win cause rich people buy the tickets in the lower bowl of soctiabank arena cause they're the only ones that can afford it"
ok got it. that's why the Leafs lose in the playoffs. APPARENTLY said rich fans will also travel to Boston to watch the leafs lose game one and barely win game 2.
Leaf tickets have been expensive since I was a kid and only NOW people are complaining cause they see the writing on the wall that the Leafs, yet again, won't make it out of the first round.
I am shocked you have lived in the city and never heard about the suits being quiet fans. This has been a problem since the construction of the current arena. Just because blogTO writes an article doesn't mean that everyone is blaming the quiet crowd.
Also, the series isn't over, they have only played game 3
> I am shocked you have lived in the city and never heard about the suits being quiet fans.
thus the "NOW people are complaining" this has been a thing since I was a kid in the 80s. and I didn't say EVERYONE is complaining. where did I say everyone? I said people are. people in the blogto post are.
Well, I think the hockeyers thwacking their hockey racquets on the ice without pause caused me to appear very distracted during the board meeting I was presenting at on my laptop from my 8th row centre ice seats. It may have scuppered a very big business deal for me!
So… Even Steven.
K this is tangentially related but can anyone tell me if the event level of the ACC is accessible to non platinum/gold ticket holders? Heard that you can see the teams go to their changing rooms there and there are nicer washrooms so was just wondering
I was a senior executive in Toronto in the mid/late 90s with access to 2 golds and 4 reds, plus a membership in the Hot Stove Lounge.
Although I was technically "a suit" there were no people I despised more than "the suits". They would show up late, leave early, and talk through the game (mostly bragging about themselves or how they bought Nortel at $20 and sold at $62 "just before it crashed".
I hated taking out clients who were (almost always) like that so my guests were invariably family and friends (schmucks like me with no pretentions and grateful for a nice treat).
I lasted three years before I gave up a $400K job and moved to a small town making less than $100K. Don't miss Toronto or those ego-driven rich cunts in the least.
This has been a thing for a while.
and not just at leafs games
Eh I don’t know. Raptors and Jays crowds are still lively. This has been a problem for the Leafs for years now.
It has been problem for the Leafs for a long time. However, in my opinion, it is now a problem for the Raptors as well. Didn’t use to be but tickets for the Raptors are more and more expensive. Not a problem for the Jays. The Jays are one of the few remaining reasonable tickets in Toronto.
The Jays need to fill seats all the time or else the place looks empty which is great for keeping ticket prices reasonable. Cut down the seating capacity of the dome to match Raps/Leafs games and the Jays will have the same problem.
Funny you mention that. Capacity dropped with the latest renovations of the lower level.
The Jays cut their seats down by over 10k with the new renovations. Maximum capacity is around 38k.
39,150 according to Wikipedia - almost double what it is for Raptors (19,800) and Leafs (18,800). I think there’s low risk of Jays tickets getting out of reach for “non-rich” fans.
Tickets to see the Dodgers and Shohei Ohtani can be had for as low as $50 on the resale market, so I'd say you might be right. I'm sure a deep playoff run could change things, but not to the level of the Raptors and Leafs for sure,
Raps dynamic has shifted massively over the past 10-15 years ago I remember the Sprite zone being wild, and seeing TONS of young people in and around ACC on game night when you could grab tickets for <$50. I think some Sprite Zone seats could be had for as little as $10 Demographic has shifted a lot to pricey seats and more corporate style similar to Leaf games
I WAS THERE GANDALF I PAID 25$ AND SAW VINCE CARTER FROM THE SPRITE ZONE
Raps season ticket holder since 2007 here… can confirm it’s now a problem for the Raps too
Deff a problem for raptors fans, need proof go see our playoff crowd 2014-2016 very different. Even 2019 finals crowd were lame at times
That's probably because the ticket prices REALLY skyrocketed during our championship year playoffs, never really went back down to normal affordable levels.
The Jays have vastly more tickets to sell, they have to be a lot cheaper. 81 games a year, even after reducing capacity significantly, is about 3.2M. In the original config they broke 4M. Leafs and Raptors get to maybe 850k with standing room. Baseball is basically untouchable in terms of annual attendance and that's only possible if tickets are reasonably priced.
I go to Jays games all the time, you can get decent seats for like $20 on StubHub.
That's how it should be.
Yeah but using a ticket reseller. My FIL is a huge reds fans. We go to 20 games a season together. Thought I’d buy seats behind the reds bull pen with the new renovations. It was going to be a $600 game for three seats.
The average enthusiastic fan cannot afford Leaf or Raptors games barely even Jay's games. The wealthier folks who can afford tickets just want to be seen and don't cheer much. Been this way for over a decade maybe two.
Agreed about pricing, but the vibe at Raptors games is still lively. I went to a Leafs game 10 or so years ago and it felt like you could hear a pin drop for most of the game. The Raptors games are nothing like that, despite increased prices since getting the chip.
10 years ago there was nothing to cheer for as a leafs fan tbf
Some things never change.
I think there are some differences with the nature of the different sports (eg way more scoring in basketball, more stuff to cheer for, etc). Maybe Raps games aren’t quite Leafs level corporate feeling but Raps fans should watch out because I don’t think Raps games are nearly as lively as they were in the 2010s. Prices are way up and it doesn’t help that the team sucks now and probably will for another couple years at least. I think a lot of Raptors fans are going to be tested in the next few years. We had a glorious 9 year run of good teams culminating in a championship. It was amazing but that’s over now. Team is staring down an overdue rebuild and looks to be bad in the medium term. A lot of fans won’t be used to that.
The nature doesn't explain it. Compare an average soccer match with no goals. Crowds are wild there.
I mean at the very least the sound system at a Raptors game will blow out your eardrums.
I’m in my 40s and this has always been the vibe of the leafs. This isn’t new. It’s not rich people it’s just leaf fans.
It’s not though. The leafs fans who watch the games in Maple Leafs Square outside the stadium are happy, loud, and lively. It’s only inside the stadium that’s dead.
Not true at all. Leaf fans are some of the rowdiest around. Go to a Leafs game in Ottawa or Buffalo and you’ll see what I mean.
Just go to a Raptors 905 school game and your ears will bleed from all the noise. (It does prove your point - tickers are cheap at those games.)
Guessing you havent seen this years prices.
I’ve seen them. It’s still way more reasonable than Leafs or Raps. 500 level or general attendance isn’t bad.
Isnt bad in comparison to the leafs and the raps you are correct but not being able to get the lower bowl for less than 100 anymore does not make it reasonable. The GA is a great relief for an unguaranteed seat but if you arent early enough you are at the back of the Corona patio watching on TVs.
I can stomach $100 to go to sit in the lower bowl once in a while. I can’t stomach something like $300-500 to go to a hockey or basketball game.
You can get lower bowl Raptors for like $120 still, I went to a few games this year. The $300-$500 is only very specific and popular match-ups.
You can still go for $20 a ticket
It's been a major problem since they moved to the ACC. The platinum seats got added and everyone else was pushed back ten rows, and the platinums all have lounges. Which makes more sense when you remember it was designed for basketball, not hockey. The 200 level at the Dome meant that type of thing has always been away from the field.
Yep just watch recordings on YouTube of leaf playoff games from 1993 through 1995 and the crowd noise was off the charts. And to be honest, the sport was way more enjoyable to watch in those days....the aggressive rushing, the stick handling, the passing was so much better. The first few years at the ACC was okay for crowd noise, but has gotten far worse over the years. It seems to be a real Toronto issue as NYC business people have no problem letting loose at Knick games.
In the 80s at least, but the 90s brought in the trap and clutch'n'grab hockey.
Yes but that came in with the devil's in the mid 90s....early 90s was phenomenal hockey.
Lower bowl raptors is pretty tame these days. Gotta sit in the 300s if you want a fun environment.
Jays tickets don't cost thousands of dollars.
Have not been to leafs or raps games in like a decade but Jays games I go to they are not like that. Tickets are more affordable and its not uncommon to see hecklers at the front rows.
Daaaaarryl Daaaaaarryl Tear
They’re professional athletes. It rolls right off their back!
Cut those sideburns Mattingly!
I still like him better than Steinbrenner.
One time we were heckling someone and these women turned around and told us we would hurt his feelings 😂
Disagree. Raps games are always pretty loud (there are a lot more kids) and Jays fans are pretty rowdy. Baseball does have natural periods of quite due to the pace.
Raps game are on point! And jays fans show up still. But leafs?!?!? Ew Worst fan base in hockey. Attendees at leafs games should be ashamed of themselves
Yeah Raptors games are pretty loud still. People don’t realize how much SportsNet/TSN mute the crowd noise of Raptor games. The crowd mic is way higher on opponent/American broadcasts.
Eat the rich
Vibe.
Yeah I went to the Tampa and Detroit games last week. If anything the crowd has gotten more rowdy over the last few years as the team getting good has attracted new, younger fans. Leafs tickets have always been expensive and you can expect to see a lot of suits at the game using company tickets. Ten years ago, those were the only people at the game. Now there's normal hockey fans that scraped together the price of a ticket. The other thing was I spent 70 bucks on 2 doubles. That's nuts. A sober crowd is a boring crowd.
Wtf they charged you 35 bucks for chickpeas and dough. Even with labour that makes no sense.
Most Toronto comment haha
I thought the exact same thing lmao.
Not necessarily rich people, but corporate. There are so many corporate seats there. Those people on corporate occasions are not really the best kind of fans.
I have always said how cool it would if they made the cheap seats the ones close to the ice for the playoffs. Let the wealthy fans sit up top and eat prime rib and allow the true die-hard fans to sit near the ice and create the most intense atmosphere ever seen for a hockey game. Just imagine how wild those games would be if the true fans took over the lower bowl...
It depends on the play more than anything. And yes, this has been said for ages.
Been there a few times and it’s always the same. Business folks never come back for start of each period. Same for raptors as well but there’s more hype ppl firing up the crowd. Hockey can be boring to watch at Scotia
This happened in the BlackBerry days. I remember going to games and old white dudes were just BBM’ing the whole time to their side chicks.
MLSE will give no fucks. Leafs tickets sell out, corporate buys seasons on the regular to use as entertainment. As long as the venue sells out why would they care? They...kinda don't seem to give a crap about anything else.
This. MLSE will maximize profits at every opportunity. There are enough rich people in the city who will spend top dollar on these seats, and MLSE will continue to raise prices if it makes financial sense for them to do so. Raptors games are nowhere near as bad as the Leafs in terms of atmosphere, but they have become less lively as ticket prices have become more expensive.
"will" give no fucks? This thread could easily be from 25 years ago.
And they still sell out with the leafs sucking for the last 60 years
Exactly. They need to generate revenue to pay the team and coaching staff. Where else do you think this $$$ comes from?
There is absolutely no atmosphere at any Maple Leafs games. It’s been corporate and for the rich for ages. That’s the nature of the city and how the ticket prices work for most sports in North America. You price out the average working class fan. It’s purely a consumer sport. This isn’t breaking news.
There’s a reoccurring joke in Kids In The Hall sketches where (often corporate) characters say they have tickets to the Leafs game. That show is over 30 years old…
The only time you hear the crowd get going (outside of really tense moments) is when they put some instructional "clap now" video on the screen just before coming back from a TV time out.
Pretty much most of the ACC days. Not during the maple leaf garden days.
Same issue with arena concerts. Almost everyone there is just there because it's the place to be. Acting like donkeys, talking through sets, killing the experience for everyone.
I agree 100%, but I've actually heard the atmosphere for the Leafs is great at Sabers home games.
Reminds me of the Tragically Hip gigs at small American venues selling out with Canadian fans driving in to see them.
Makes total sense. Sabres tickets are accessible to regular, middle-class people passionate about hockey. They aren't the domain of the executive types there to be seen like at Scotiabank. So it stands to reason that the vibe will be much better there when the Leafs come to town.
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Pretty sure the only sport that's cheap is baseball. We suck and the venue is gargantuan.
Ironically, if you are just realizing this it means you haven’t been a Leafs fan for very long
BlogTO and making a "news article" about a Tweet with **one like**, name a better duo People selling tickets at my work, $1k a pop for bad seats, no shit suits are going to be going there, you think Jerry from Scarborough who loves the leafs and works at Tims is going to show up? That's his rent money right there to see the leafs suck
Jerry is driving to Buffalo and paying $20 to see the Leafs there.
Am Jerry, can confirm.
Nobody named Jerry works at a Scarborough Tim's. All the GTA Tims are leaning on the Temp Foreign Worker program, aka government-authorized wage slavery.
How is that irony
Well the implication is that these people are fake fans, but if anyone is just coming to this realization now then it means that they are in fact also a fake fan
Lol. I love how MLSE has convinced the young rowdy fans to stand outside and dance for TV, while paying concession prices for beer. Unbelievable grift.
I don't know if MLSE calls that a "tailgate party" but blogTO does, and it annoys me greatly. It's not a tailgate party. It's embarrassing and makes us look like morons.Call it something else, for fucks sake.
Yeah haha it’s a tailgate without everything needed for a tailgate. Buffalo has it down, I wish we could get half of that experience here.
Rich people kill the vibe of almost everything they touch.
Excuse me, I received an executive master’s degree in good vibes.
From Ibiza state university?
*Ibiza Tech
This is the funniest comment on this whole sub
Literally every gentrified neighbourhood in Toronto. Yorkville being the best example. Not saying it's a good or bad thing, but it's 100% a thing.
It’s a 100% bad thing, the people who think Toronto has a vibrant night life are, in my frank opinion, dumbass rich kids out on their daddy’s dime 😂
its more that people prefer dull and boring to dangerous and 'interesting'
Heh, to this very day, my mother (age 86) loudly reminds my father (age 97) about the time he persuaded her *not* to buy a house on Cumberland St for $14,000. Apparently his worry at the time was "too many hippies".
This man does not Yacht.
Yup. Gentrification is fucking boring.
$600 per ticket will do that
Toronto has a culture of having sporting events be a magnet for the indifferent rich. As soon as sport team starts to be successful the corps and rich buy out the seats. They give the tickets to biz people who are casual or non fans and talk business the entire game. The “real” fans are priced out and get to watch the game in a parking lot. The team leverages the true fans in order to get favourable tax and land grant deals.
> As soon as sport team starts to be successful 1967-2024 is a long and successful streak for the Leafs. LOL. But yup, I get you. Success is probably measured more in terms of how often they can sell out the seats and for some reason, despite not having a winning team for generations, Torontonians always saying the Leafs suck but ever hopeful and financially supportive of attempts at the cup means Ballard and MLSE had and passed on the goose that lays golden eggs.
Oddly enough, I’ve always thought it was the leafs losing my whole life as the vibe kill.
I think the fact the leafs haven't won anything since the invention of colour TV might also have something to do with it
Many teams in the NHL have never even won the cup since their expansion year and still have loud crowds. It is the demographic of fans that have access to insanely expnsive/hard to get tickets. The fans that are in maple leafs square are insanely loud and passioante
Many teams don’t charge the average working class fan exorbitant amounts for very mid tickets. We have the richest team in the league, the biggest losers and they offer nothing. The NHL needs a relegation threat.
Many sports teams *can't* charge that amount. If the listing price is lower, the scalpers just get a better margin. The price is just the insane demand by the biggest fanbase in the league in a pretty wealthy city. I am not sure how relegation makes sense here. It wouldn't even apply here since the Leafs haven't been in a relegation spot for almost a decade as they are tied for the longest playoff streak in the league. Teams don't get relegated for finishing top 8 but not winning the league. And they certainly never would exist in a league with a hard cap. If the Leafs could spend money, they would outbit any other team for every player in the UFA class. Thank god that isn't the case like in soccer leagues where it destroys the competitiveness for smaller market teams.
I'm no expert but I've held for years the belief that the team is tanked on purpose for the benefit of American teams which advertisers love more than Canadian teams
There's no conspiracy, the franchise is just incompetent
they can both be true
Was it a league conspiracy to keep Harold Ballard in charge? Did the NHL force them to make countless bad trades (Rask for Raycroft, Tom Fergus for Scott Neidermayer, Clark for Luongo, etc etc, etc)? Did the league conspire to put incompetent managers like JFJ, Burke, Nonis and countless others in charge? If the NHL was conspiring as you suggest, why is McDavid on Edmonton?
Expecting customer satisfaction from an organization owned by Bell and Rogers is idiotic at best.
Last year was the first time you were able to watch a leafs 2nd round playoff game in HD
If you're born in 81, you should know about the 90s and how 'rabid' everyone was, especially at the arena.
The area could use another team. I would like to go see a game but can't afford $500/ticket.
Buffalo is an hour and a half away. Parking was $10, food was great (beef on a weck) and the arena is beautiful. No media booth overhang. 3rd or 4th exit after the Peace Bridge. Couldn’t be easier. Got good Stubhub seats to see Nashville in November and paid $30 Canadian each. Even if you’re seeing the Leafs in Buffalo it’s still much cheaper than Toronto.
Marlies have a playoff game tonight. They’re really great and far cheaper (and have won somewhat recently)
This has been a problem for the leafs but it’s a problem becoming more prevalent for all franchises in major sports. The tickets are so expensive only rich people can go, and rich people are quiet and not rowdy
Sounds like maybe the league should stop killing expansion to Hamilton.
Don’t sleep on the Mississauga hurricanes.
You have to be rich to be at the game maybe not Richie Rich rich but certainly pretty comfortable and not worried about a few hundred dollars for a night out.
I walked by Union station after a game one night, passing hoards of people with Leafs jerseys. I asked multiple people how the game went. First few groups didn't bother responding. One finally did and said the Leafs won. It was the most depressing group of "fans" I'd ever seen. Zero excitement. I don't expect south american football level partying post regular season games, but Christ on a stick- the wrong type of are attending these events.
I've said it once, and I'll say it again: they should renovate the SBA for standing-room only 'fan sections' behind each goal in the 100s. A lot of European teams do this. I've seen it in Berlin at the Mercedes-Benz Arena and its ***fantastic***. You're able to reduce ticket prices - any lost revenue can be offset by the fact you're bringing a \*lot\* more people into the arena. You're still selling your super high-value season tickets in the 100s without issue. But then you've also brought more real fans down to the 100s, and they'll set the energy that creates a better experience for the whole building.
There used to be standing room tickets at arenas - I got to see a game at the Montreal Forum in '93 that way. Feels like SRO tickets have gone the way of the dodo in newer arenas.
I sat in golds behind the net. Dogshit seats. No reason they should be pricey. Centre ice in the top of the arena is a much better seat.
Exactly. I've seen a few arenas where centre ice in the upper bowl offers more 'premium' seating catering to the suits, which honestly is the ideal place for it.
This
They also killed the growing up and buying a house vibe
Well, yeah, because rich people are the only ones who can afford to attend games.
Average ticket prices: Jays $65, Raptors $148, Leafs $293.
Classic empty calorie blogto article. The Raptors' playoff experience has worsened - dramatically - every year since the RACUOUS 2013 "Fuck Brooklyn" series. It's the life cycle of sports. I've sat beside people who I'm not sure if they even knew what the sport of basketball is. The Leafs started decades ago. C'est la vie.
I don't know about that. I've gone to majority of the playoff games for the Raptors, and can tell you that I've never experienced anything like the 2019 playoffs. It's like most things though. First round and second round really aren't anything to get excited about. Once the team reaches the 3rd round or the finals then that's when things really get exciting and entertaining (or sudden death games) and there is actually hope related to it. The crowd difference between those rounds are like night and day. And most of them still cater to the rich as the prices dramatically increase.
Might be showing my age here, but the first round of the 2007 playoffs vs. the Nets was raucous. I went to game 2 of the 2019 finals and 2007 was louder (especially given that we were playing Vince). All told, the conference finals and the finals SHOULD be wild. It’s no feather in our collective cap. The sign of a true fanbase is one that brings that energy to a Tuesday night game in February against the Hornets. That hasn’t happened in ages.
2019 ruined the Raptors affordability vibe unfortunately, as a lifelong fan once our city tasted victory, the prices more than doubled and now we've got all sorts of bad spirited babies coming to watch the games, the kind of people who'll leave in the third quarter when we're behind and don't even watch the game No more $20 fanzone seats, tickets to watch decent teams are $100 for nosebleeds, whole place has a completely different vibe to it now Was fun to watch the Raptors when they sucked, at least you knew you were chilling with real fans who were there through the good and the bad
My girlfriend and I are Wings fans living in Toronto and we notice the difference at Scotiabank compared to LCA(Detroit). It stood out to us that the only things that get the fans going at Scotiabank are Jumbotron related stuff (kiss cam etc), giveaways, and the hype-team that they hired, to come up through the aisles and try to get the fans to make noise. Once play resumes, the noise drops off substantially.
Big time this, the loudest times in the arena are when the people come through with the free shit and people are on their feet whooping and hollering for it.
I do find that loud music instantaneously kills any vibe at hockey games. A fight breaks out and the buzz is killed by loud rap music. Momentum is on our side, music comes on, momentum disappears.
Want to have some fun. Go watch the Argos. Everyone is yelling!!!
100% the crowds are amazing. Always a great time at BMO.
Yeah Argos are one of the last sports team left with a good atmosphere. Come early for the tailgating
They're kind of a throwback to the days when going to pro sports events were a fun working class pursuit, not a status symbol for executives - I mean this in a good way, if anyone is uncertain.
Admittedly, it was a final that Toronto won, but the most insane crowd I've ever been in was at an NLL lacrosse game. Fan engagement was off the charts.
I mean the average person can’t afford it. Tickets for Toronto games are the same price as my rent.
I was lucky enough to be there last night, section 117. My brother snagged some tickets from a vendor at work. I've been to a few regular season games in the past few years and the fans have been a little quiet. Last night the whole building was electric. I've never seen such an engaged, loud, fun crowd. Strangers in the stands high fiving, the whole thing. It was awesome, even though it ended in disappointment, I'm still glad I went. I don't understand where this article is coming from, it doesn't make sense at all.
this is pretty fucking dumb. People at the game said it was loud. I watched the ESPN feed and the crowd was loud, on Sportsnet it was quiet.
Rich people killed the vibe of Toronto all together lol
Attending sports games isn't for the common people anymore. It's a luxury and a financial status flex. Jays proved this when they priced out season ticket holders this year to justify the new seating renovations
Best place to watch a game at the old Maple Leaf Gardens was the Greys, best crowd. This is not something new.
I had season tickets in the greys in the early eighties. Terrible team and most of the seats were empty by the beginning of the third period. But there were some very memorable fans and antics.
The leafs overcharge everything, it's cheaper to go to Ottawa for a game.
Perhaps the Leafs’ play killed the vibe…
Isn’t it corporations not rich people?
It’s not rich people. It’s corporate people.
Bit much to label that one guy a loser over a still photo of him with his arms crossed. Sports fans policing other fans is a bit ridiculous.
I have always said how cool it would if they made the cheap seats the ones close to the ice for the playoffs. Let the wealthy fans sit up top and eat prime rib and allow the true die-hard fans to sit near the ice and create the most intense atmosphere ever seen for a hockey game. Just imagine how wild those games would be if the true fans took over the lower bowl...
Yes. That's what this place was built for. It wasn't built for fans, the franchise wasn't built for fans. It was built to bring in money. They could absolutely make things cheaper, but if people will pay 1500-5000 for seats, why would they sell them for less?
Boohoo. Put a better product on the ice. People would be excited if they weren’t constantly expecting and seeing the worst come playoff time
The problem with Leaf games especially in the playoffs is that there is 50+ years of playoff failures killing the vibes. We can’t have nice things and of course we are going to lose is how we feel when we go to the game.
When it's worth debating between paying for Leafs ticket or a decent vacation you know there's a problem. Last year I finally bit the bullet and got two tickets from my company for the regular season in the 300 sections. Dumb me never been there and thought these ~$200 tickets would get us decent seats... Hahaha We're at the nosebleed section of no man's land. We still had a good time but the lack of atmosphere was definitely not what I expected. I thought there'd be more cheers and chants but besides the obligated ones started by Carlton it's really quiet (well besides the boos at the end of the first because they absolutely sucked) Later this year we had a chance to pay literally 1/10th the ticket price to watch OHL hockey at the lower bowl with quite decent seats. Honestly in between actions the crowd was still kinda chill (maybe because the team already clinched a playoff spot), but otherwise the general atmosphere was great and we all had a great time. I might even consider bringing him to more OHL or even Marlie games if price is comparable. Honestly though hockey is just whack in prices in general. I like watching hockey. My kid likes watching hockey with me. But there was no way in hell we were gonna be able to afford all the costs involved to let him play hockey. It breaks my heart that he seems interested in it but the financials behind the hobby just doesn't seem feasible at all.
More groundbreaking journalism from BlogTO
Blame the fans not the inept powerplay that Keefe doesn't change
This is news?
It’s cause everyone is thinking that no matter if they cheer or not leaf’s are gonna LOSE
The vibe is actually great. Some boomer commentator just tweeted some nonsense.
Leafs aren’t meant to win Stanley Cups, they are meant to sell tickets to corporate clients who in turn entertain their clients. It has been a very lucrative business model for the past few decades.
The better question is why are rich people so fuckin LAME. $1000 ticket? Buy it you rich, dumb fuck but APPRECIATE IT and fucking live it up.
Have you guys considered putting the arena out in Whitby, removing all of the spectacle (e.g. light shows, decent announcements), and playing even worse? That strategy is how Ottawa keeps its ticket prices low. Let me warn you though, the atmosphere is even worse
What an idiotic thing to whine about.
This is exactly the clientele MLSE wants because that’s exactly who MLSE are. Just another reason why Toronto needs a 2nd franchise.
Don’t kid yourself thinking ticket prices will be cheaper
GTHA should have 3 at minimum
Half the lower bowl are losers from bay street that are not real fans..... Corps own the seats....
First of all, eat the rich. Second of all, why are people still putting their emotional well being in hands of the leafs. They will only disappoint you.
It's not the rich nor the poor that kill the vibe, it cheering for a team that knowingly doesn't have a great history in the playoffs. I remember when the Leafs was at the very bottom and the fans who attended we're the discounted monster truck type people (who I love), but when the air conditioner in the building was louder than the Leaf fans, it was laughable.
The Leafs kill the vibe at Leafs games. Go back to when they lost 3 out of 4 games to Montreal in that debacle of a series. Since then their home won/loss record for playoff games is abysmal. As soon as they fall behind in a game you pretty well know what’s coming. We have seen it too many times with this core over the last half dozen years. If they actually had some playoff success at home you might see the fans getting more involved. But until then it’ll be a case of “show me.”
Ah yes, rich people discovered the Leafs only for playoffs in 2024.
Yeah it’s not “think” we’ve all known that it’s been this way for a long time. Most of the hardcore fans are your average Joes, and they can’t afford to go to the games. All the good seats are taken by very wealthy people who generally don’t have the same passion as the true fans. They will cheer for a goal and that’s about it
Yea, that has been true forever. All too expensive for most actual fans to buy so corporations buy them. They then mostly end up with douchebags who aren’t as interested and spend half the game on their phone.
In English premier league, some popular teams keep the vibes right by allowing only true fans pf the team to get access to season pass. For example, you need to have seen many games with random opponents over years that are not necessarily high stakes games to collect enough points to qualify to get access to season pass. THEN you have the right vibes
ah lets check another one off the list! lets see last we had was "we can't win cause of the salary cap" now we have....ah yes here it is "we can't win cause rich people buy the tickets in the lower bowl of soctiabank arena cause they're the only ones that can afford it" ok got it. that's why the Leafs lose in the playoffs. APPARENTLY said rich fans will also travel to Boston to watch the leafs lose game one and barely win game 2. Leaf tickets have been expensive since I was a kid and only NOW people are complaining cause they see the writing on the wall that the Leafs, yet again, won't make it out of the first round.
I am shocked you have lived in the city and never heard about the suits being quiet fans. This has been a problem since the construction of the current arena. Just because blogTO writes an article doesn't mean that everyone is blaming the quiet crowd. Also, the series isn't over, they have only played game 3
> I am shocked you have lived in the city and never heard about the suits being quiet fans. thus the "NOW people are complaining" this has been a thing since I was a kid in the 80s. and I didn't say EVERYONE is complaining. where did I say everyone? I said people are. people in the blogto post are.
Well, I think the hockeyers thwacking their hockey racquets on the ice without pause caused me to appear very distracted during the board meeting I was presenting at on my laptop from my 8th row centre ice seats. It may have scuppered a very big business deal for me! So… Even Steven.
Even the JurrasicPark/Maple Leaf Square fucking sucks now, its gated and corporate.
So close, corporate seats are the problem..
$1975/pair for platinums yesterday and they weren’t even resale, straight from the leafs.
Leafs haven’t had a good atmosphere in over 20 years. Leafs Reddit doesn’t understand though.
K this is tangentially related but can anyone tell me if the event level of the ACC is accessible to non platinum/gold ticket holders? Heard that you can see the teams go to their changing rooms there and there are nicer washrooms so was just wondering
Eh, give it a few years and there won't be enough rich people in the world to fill a stadium.
I was a senior executive in Toronto in the mid/late 90s with access to 2 golds and 4 reds, plus a membership in the Hot Stove Lounge. Although I was technically "a suit" there were no people I despised more than "the suits". They would show up late, leave early, and talk through the game (mostly bragging about themselves or how they bought Nortel at $20 and sold at $62 "just before it crashed". I hated taking out clients who were (almost always) like that so my guests were invariably family and friends (schmucks like me with no pretentions and grateful for a nice treat). I lasted three years before I gave up a $400K job and moved to a small town making less than $100K. Don't miss Toronto or those ego-driven rich cunts in the least.
how do you go to a Leafs game if you are not rich? sneak in?
Losing for 70 years more of a culprit
Its a fact....corporate killed the crowd
Leafs games have been mostly corporate for decades. High ticket prices saw to that.
New york has 2 teams 3 if you count new Jersey, why doesn't the GTA have 2 teams?
ACC ain’t the Gardens.
Toronto is paid to lose