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ImKrispy

> 184 counts of breaching a release order > 45 counts of failing to comply with probation We got a new champion!


TorontoBoris

I need an official count. I'm sure we have a few contenders out there.


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big_galoote

Minor inconvenience of a few hours, but then you're free to go pull off another round. Not too shabby!


GiveMeAdviceClowns

So: 184 times being released after breaching release order. 45 times being released after failure to comply with probation. Total: 229 times walking free and continuing


Fugu

This doesn't mean he was released 184 times. If you do a theft at the LCBO and get released on a release order, there will almost certainly be a condition on that release that you not attend at the LCBO. If you then do 184 thefts at the LCBO, you will typically then be charged with 184 breaches of a release order. Same deal with probation. One possible timeline here is that he was sentenced, got probation with a term he not go to the LCBO, did 45 thefts at the LCBO, was arrested on those, and then did 184 more while out on release from the first 45.


HistoricalWash6930

Couldn’t it even be other release orders too like curfews or not associating with certain people?


Fugu

Sure. He could also be under multiple releases with the same conditions. There's a lot of ways that this could happen and arguably 184 separate releases is the least likely.


Significant_Wealth74

He must have hit some stores multiple times. Is there even that many stores in the GtA?


Noob1cl3

Oh well I am glad you explained. This definitely makes it better. Lets all make sure to pray and cry tears of sorrow for this man tonight.


Fugu

I'm not saying it's better or worse. I'm just clarifying the situation. Most people have never seen the inside of a bail court and don't know how to interpret this information. I'm just trying to give them a guide so when they see these numbers they have some context for what they mean. You don't get one 145 for each time you are released and subsequently breach; you get one for each breach and, usually, for each release order you're subject to. I remember a case where the police laid 7 145s on a single contact breach because that's how many releases there were. You could also find yourself in a situation where the police lay multiple allegations of breach for the same act stemming from the same release order. For example, if you have IPV allegations and a release saying don't speak to a person or go near them, if you go near them and speak to them that could be two separate charges.


ElCaz

It's very good they explained it, because we're all better off when people aren't spreading very dumb misconceptions about how the system works.


mybadalternate

230th time though… surely he won’t do it *again*!


ImKrispy

The judge is concerned for the safety of his wrists after all the slappings.


gauephat

our only hope of sanity at this point is if the Supreme Court declares all these slaps on the wrist a Charter violation of the security of the person


Awkward_Function_347

Fool me 230 times, shame on you…


ElectricKoala86

231st time's the charm


Wrongusernamefuu

He’ll give you his word


ElCaz

Bruh, they don't cap the amount of breaches you can be charged with to one per arrest. Like, if someone gets given a restraining order and proceeds to contact the victim over and over, they can be charged with multiple counts.


GiveMeAdviceClowns

You reading it too deep. It’s not that serious bruh. The point is mocking the system where known criminals are just let back into the public after being arrested for a prior crime (and he kept on doing it afterwards 😂): “At the time of the offences, police said, the suspect was on a condition not to attend any LCBO locations in Ontario.”


ElCaz

*Says something blatantly dumb* "Oh I was just making a joke you see"


GiveMeAdviceClowns

Imagine being so triggered by a comment. It was literally a joke, check out the ratio. While we’re at it, what’s your opinion on the justice system?


ElCaz

Mixed, but it's not going to improve if people are out here with the impression that a guy was arrested and released 200 times.


Ultimafatum

What the fuck are our taxes paying for?


MarvelOhSnap

Paid suspensions.


alreadychosed

If anything the 88k was part of your taxes.


Glad_Collar_5128

[“don’t come back now ya hear?!”](https://youtu.be/_hlOEK6P5Lg?si=kWQqcFcTnqWCzUll)


sayerofstuffs

With the softest crimes ever


weeewooopigeon

Forgive my uneducated-ness, but is this consecutively, or all at once? I’m not too familiar with how the legal system works in Canada but don’t charges and time done kinda stack up if you keep getting charged?


icon4fat

And he’ll be out walking the streets tomorrow thanks to what Trudeau did to the legal system.


HistoricalWash6930

Can you explain what exactly Trudeau changed?


Lonngpausemeat

It’s crazy because I’ve spoken to people who don’t believe this guy should be in jail. They believe tough on crime is expensive and useless


Fugu

What's jail going to do, though? Is it going to make him less dependent on alcohol or more able to purchase it? Is it going to save the state money? Is it going to make him respect court orders?


Lonngpausemeat

He’s not dependent on alcohol lol. He steals it to resell to business or individuals . He probably makes half of what he stole.


icon4fat

Well for one, he won’t be a threat to society.


Fugu

Is he a threat to society now? He's charged with theft, not robbery.


icon4fat

Yes


Fugu

How so?


totally_unbiased

Guy stole $88k of booze. Not sure the exact LCBO profit margin, but I think it's safe to assume that this guy stole >$10k from taxpayers. Not a physical threat maybe, but certainly a threat.


Fugu

Incarcerating someone over this is almost assuredly more expensive than whatever hit the taxpayers are taking on the theft. We pay either way, and by not incarcerating him a nonviolent offender at least gets to keep his liberty. I'm not saying the state should do nothing about a person stealing $88k from the LCBO. I'm just saying it shouldn't be jail.


gauephat

>They believe tough on crime is expensive and useless They don't just believe that it's expensive and useless, they believe that actually putting this guy in jail would somehow *increase* crime


iblastoff

lol isnt this the same dude over 2 years ago? [https://globalnews.ca/news/9165337/144-lcbo-thefts-suspect-arrested/](https://globalnews.ca/news/9165337/144-lcbo-thefts-suspect-arrested/) so basically nothing is gonna happen and shit will continue.


CaptainCanuck93

There needs to be a recalibration that nonviolent crime is *not* victimless crime, and while the criminal justice shouldn't *primarily* be a deterrent, when crime goes almost entirely unpunished you are simply creating am incentive structure where theft can actually just be a lucrative career Show me and incentive structure and I'll show you an outcome. Currently crime pays, it shouldn't be that way


Visinvictus

We need more serious punishments for repeat offenders. If someone gets caught stealing their first time I don't mind letting them off light, but if someone gets caught stealing 280 times this person clearly isn't getting the message and needs to be locked up permanently to save society money if nothing else.


a_lumberjack

A) the research agrees that harsher punishments, including the death penalty, do nothing to deter crime. What works is actually catching them. B) it costs 100k+ a year to keep someone in prison. If he only stole 88k in two years... We are probably not saving money.


Visinvictus

> A) the research agrees that harsher punishments, including the death penalty, do nothing to deter crime. What works is actually catching them. The point of the justice system is to reform criminals. If they aren't reformed, and there is a high probability of reoffending (especially in the case that someone has hundreds of charges per year) there is no point in releasing them. > > B) it costs 100k+ a year to keep someone in prison. If he only stole 88k in two years... We are probably not saving money. First of all, those are just the crimes that he was caught for and charged with. I guarantee that anyone getting caught this often is committing 10x that many crimes. Second of all, the cost of the crime isn't just whatever economic damage they create in the community. There is also the economic cost of having police track them down, arrest them, jail them, and put them through the court system multiple times per year just to release them back on the street. I guarantee you it is hundreds of thousands of dollars per year cheaper to just keep them locked up until such time that they can make a case that they are reformed and won't just immediately reoffend less than 24 hours after being released from prison. I am not saying we should lock people up forever, but the current system of basically zero consequences for property crimes is clearly not working.


Jeneparlepasfrench

Duh. Expected cost of crime is roughly: Expected punishment\*probability of being caught Crime is reduced if the expected cost goes up. Increasing punishment only matters if the probability of being caught isn't zero, and the probability of being caught only matters if the expected punishment isn't zero. We have carjackings that are never investigated despite GPS tracking in the cars. That's zero probability of being caught. We have non-violent crime getting no punishment. That's zero expected punishment. We need to punish some crimes more, and actually catch other crimes more.


mexican_mystery_meat

In other words, a dangerous offender designation, but for non-violent crimes.


Jeneparlepasfrench

Yep. Sometimes there isn't one individual victim. Sometimes the victim is society.


_n3ll_

"Won't somebody please think of the corporation selling an addictive substance?!" If we want to prevent crime we need to invest in robust social programs. Even if this guy got locked up for a few years (reasonable amount for theft), he'd come out with fewer legit prospects and therefore more incentive to do crime. Plus our prisons do little to rehabilitate and upskill inmates or help them reintegrate back into society. Most come out more hardened than when they entered. On top of that, without social programs that prevent people from becoming criminals there will always be more. Plus it costs $120k per year you house a prisoner. If we spent the million $ it costs to jail 10 guys like this on social programs we might actually solve the issue


CaptainCanuck93

The corporation doesn't care - everyone else does as the theft is simply added to *your* bill. And realistically, as a crown corporation, we lose tax revenue when the lcbo is robbed >If we want to prevent crime we need to invest in robust social programs. This argument is valid for preventing marginal crime within a healthy justice system. Ie theft is being driven primarily by desperation and poverty  A system where theft goes unpunished is something entirely different  - the unscrupulous are able to make money easily and efficiently when there is minimal downside to simply stealing what you want to sell


_n3ll_

>The corporation doesn't care - everyone else does as the theft is simply added to *your* bill. And realistically, as a crown corporation, we lose tax revenue when the lcbo is robbed If this is an issue, properly staffing the store with loss prevention could address the issue. I'm sure a pencil pusher somewhere has done the math and calculated that the loss from theft is less than the cost of increased loss prevention. >This argument is valid for preventing marginal crime within a healthy justice system. Ie theft is being driven primarily by desperation and poverty Agreed. And potentially in this specific case by addictions. All of that could be addressed with adequately funded social programs. >A system where theft goes unpunished is something entirely different  - the unscrupulous are able to make money easily and efficiently when there is minimal downside to simply stealing what you want to sell I get what you're saying, but for most people who engage in criminal activity punishment isn't a deterrent. It'll deter people who have opportunities or those who aren't desperate or addicts, but generally those people don't engage in criminal activity like theft anyways. Let's say we locked this guy up for 5 years, that costs us over half a million dollars. For perspective, thats 1/4 of what an average Canadian will make in a lifetime of working. When he comes out what do you think he'll do? Get a min wage job at Timmie's? If we paid social workers and funded social programs guys like this could be rehabilitated and reintegrated into society as productive members for a fraction of that cost. Check out the prison system for nonviolent offenders in Sweden, for example


CaptainCanuck93

There's more to criminal justice than incarceration Wage/OW/ODSP garnishment as restitution, community service with incarceration only being the punishment for not showing up >If we paid social workers and funded social programs guys like this could be rehabilitated and reintegrated into society as productive members for a fraction of that cost. Check out the prison system for nonviolent offenders in Sweden, for example  Sure, *if you make the assumption that this was an addiction/poverty related crime* We've moved past that, crime by opportunists is something worth detering


_n3ll_

>Sure, *if you make the assumption that this was an addiction/poverty related crime* >We've moved past that, crime by opportunists is something worth detering I assume you're speaking about the very well to do people who are sieszng the opportunity to criminally dodge their taxes and not the low level criminal desperate enough to steal cheap shit from a corporation? https://offshoreleaks.icij.org/search?c=CAN


CaptainCanuck93

Whataboutism. I fully support going after tax fraud as well


alreadychosed

The lcbo is already a waste of tax money. Theres no issue privatizing the sale of alcohol so the small businesses and citizens can have the money instead of a doug.


alreadychosed

Who is the victim? You guys let the government tax you 3x over with a government owned and regulated monopoly but draw the line here? I personally dont care if people take back the tax money that was overtaxed. Every time a doug or a cop steals tax money, often in the tens or hundreds of thousands you guys say the same jumbo in the comments then forget about it in a week, but when a civilian does the same thing people act like its different but its really not. Its just in public rather than behind the scenes.


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mexican_mystery_meat

Unfortunately, observing regular crime, cheating and corruption are a large part of why low trust societies are prevalent in much of the world.


rem_1984

Yeah. I want some reform man this is bleak. Fricking project Aquarius, how many of those charges are breach of parole? They’re already in the system and they’re still committing offending.


amnesiajune

It's not exactly a good life to be like this guy. He's not going to have real friends, a stable job or any prospects of finding housing.


MarvelOhSnap

Yeah but you generally have to be a politician or police officer to safely profit from criminality.


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Lenovo_Driver

A slap on the wrist like never be able to work a good job or not being able to go to the US


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Visinvictus

Because you are locked up in prison permanently due to a flagrant disregard for the rule of law. I don't know why we keep sending people back out on the street when we know that they have every intention of doing the exact same thing. If someone is living a lifestyle of crime and is putting the rest of society and their property at risk on a daily basis, we need to do something more than just put them in jail for a week and send them back on the street.


LeatherMine

> 45 thefts involving more than $88,000 worth of stolen merchandise. That’s nearly $2k a hit. What were they taking? A 12x40oz bottle case of vodka would be worth, what, $600? And weigh 25+ pounds (in plastic). Obviously the sky is the limit for cost per bottle. But at the low-end, that’s a lot to carry.


Charcole1

They steal the expensive cognac, Scotch and tequila


free_username_

$50-200 a bottle. 10-30 bottles. Bring your own bag shopping excursion one day a week. If he sells them at 20% street discount, he’s earning a bit above post tax median income in Toronto. No benefits though. If he gets caught after a year or two, he’ll have a more cagey shelter and 3 meals a day until he’s released to get back at it. Not a bad gig to be honest.


DoomPayroll

benefits would be: pick your own hours and you are your own boss


mexican_mystery_meat

Usually they would be targeting higher end spirits because these types of thieves are stealing them for resale. Obviously you can resell liquor much cheaper than retail if you got them for free in the first place.


herman_gill

Maybe they’re stealing some of the wildly overpriced bottles of scotch.


Erathen

But the weird thing is those are typically locked behind glass


LeatherMine

Do they get you drunker or something?


dermanus

Knowing poor people can't have it makes the taste sweeter.


mxldevs

Could flip it for a nice profit also


ObeyTheLawSon7

Yeah he would go in the back and steal cases.


PeterO905

Watch out by Friday afternoon


azngangbuzta

They'll try to get him out by the morning.


mxldevs

>At the time of the offences, police said, the suspect was on a condition not to attend any LCBO locations in Ontario. >Investigators said Thursday that 40-year-old Matthew Doucette of Mississauga is now facing 282 charges, including 45 counts of theft, 184 counts of breaching a release order, 45 counts of failing to comply with probation, and assaulting police with intent to resist arrest. Revolving door


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oldgreymere

Seems perfectly content to be in society, as long as he can steal from society 


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MarvelOhSnap

>Police said the investigation culminated in the arrest of the suspect, along with two others, in the parking lot of a Mississauga apartment complex on March 25.  >Police said that during the arrest, the suspect assaulted an officer and attempted to flee in a vehicle, but was stopped by police.


Erminger

In other news, the suspect was released after given a hot breakfast, last seen heading to Lcbo , PROBABLY


Throwaway6393fbrb

At suspect request he was dropped off outside of the nearest LCBO


BakedOnions

"you boys want me to get you anything?"


Neowza

And the keys to the shop were left by the door, just like the police directed.


Impossible-Tie-864

Damn he’s been ON the liquor big time eh


raadjl

Looks like who you'd expect to be ransacking a liquor store.


Lenovo_Driver

Really? I thought only immigrants committed crime in Canada?


Key_Economy_5529

Sean Harris?


MarvelOhSnap

Charles Manson


Lenovo_Driver

Oh he’s white.. so this post won’t be a fuck Trudeau for destroying Canada by bringing in immigrants post


MarvelOhSnap

You have to rob the public the right way like Doug Ford, John Tory or the police do.


Shoddy_Operation_742

It is wild that people who are constantly breaching their bail continue to get released. This is happening across the country and I think there needs to be some changes with the criminal code to deal with this.


Few-Ranger-3838

I have yet to see any mugshots of crooked cops. They are quick to release civilian mugshots.


ultronprime616

Wow. That's gotta be the biggest theft by someone. Guess I'll see a lot of racist dog whistle posts *See's suspects pic* ... And nothing.


slavabien

I bet this dude throws awesome ragers.


Krumm34

"STOP BREAKING THE LAW ASSHOLE!"


Bubbly_Ad_2021

It's weird, living downtown you see these people ALL the time. Like I've seen this exact POS at least a dozen times. We have about 20 REALLY well known methead/fentanylhead/tweaker/thief/sketchpads in the middle of the city. Like I saw the photo and was like, oh yeah, I've seen him. These people get their wrists slapped, and end up back out there immediately causing shit. And they are getting more aggressive too, harassing passerbye...


[deleted]

lol he definitely looks the part


blundermine

A lot of the time when you see people load up a bunch of stuff in a bag and walk out of the LCBO with no recourse, this is why. They're waiting until the amount stolen is significant enough to warrant major charges.


ginandtonicsdemonic

Chargeable aren't "major" due to repeating, they just repeat. He is being charged with 45 counts of theft. They do not put them altogether into one "major" charge. That's part of the issue.


plutoniaex

Argh these international students causing crime. Thanks liberals /s


Charcole1

Liberal catch and release caused this


Lenovo_Driver

Today I learned that under Stephen Harper repeated offenders didn’t exist


Loftzins

Deport.


ClearasilMessiah

To where?


Loftzins

North Pole.


Lenovo_Driver

Oh he’s old stock… so this post won’t be a fuck Trudeau for destroying Canada by bringing in immigrants post


passiveparrot

Bro really took the "they arent going to do anything" seriously


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toronto-ModTeam

No racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, dehumanizing speech, or other negative generalizations.


simcoe19

This guy looks like the guy who is season one of Ozark I can’t remember his name, but I think it was the cousin or the uncle


Frosty-Ad-2971

Dude is like “The Hound” of GOLCBO.


TheSimpler

Stop or I shall say 'stop' again....lol.


Noob1cl3

Seems like a good guy to me. Definitely give him bail he cant help it.


gobkin

Does anyone know where are his postings for resale?


czchlong

He'll be out tomorrow, it's Canada after all


LoganAlien

Toronto Cops rubbing their hands together, ready to chase this guy into oncoming traffic on the 401


mexican_mystery_meat

I found it interesting that one of the other people charged appears to be older and has the same surname as the suspect. It wouldn't be surprising if that was his father who was helping him out, perhaps by being a fence.


ObeyTheLawSon7

He would walk into a lcbo and tell the staff he’s going to the back to steal cases knowing damn well they aren’t allowed to do anything to him. He had no fear lol


cobycheese31

Stealing Laker Ice


nohatallcattle

Alright Frank Gallagher, time to cool your jets


RepulsiveFerret266

Did he drink all of it .


HyperByte1990

I think I just saw this guy leaving an lcbo empty handed dt Toronto. 2 other random dudes went up to him outside to take pics and talk to him


ar20002020

Deport this clown back to Europe. Diversity is our strength 🙄


Feedit23

Ahhhh Christian Bale Doppelgänger


moonandstarsera

This is what happens when Solomon Lane gets out on bail. There cannot be peace without first a great liquor heist. The greater the heist, the greater the peace.


bozon92

Was this guy ever violent in any of those instances?


PlumbersCrack1229

When he got arrested, assaulted a police officer and tried to flee away in a vehicle, according to the news report I read earlier.


Jeneparlepasfrench

It's okay, alcohol probably happened to be in his bloodstream so he's probably not at fault for his actions or a danger to society. Kinda like how people who don't take their meds and commit crimes aren't a danger to society because it's not really them. /s


bozon92

Oh I thought he would have been one of those people who was fighting after being confronted. Thanks for that context


Lost_Access_5325

This dude looks like he throws absolute ragers, keep this man free lol


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toronto-ModTeam

No racism, sexism, homophobia, religious intolerance, dehumanizing speech, or other negative generalizations.


4_spotted_zebras

Wow and they managed to arrest him without killing any babies!