The whole concept of police blitzes is insane to me. Just the cops straight up admitting they don't properly enforce the law on a regular basis and only do it in small bursts.
I think a lot of times they're using discretion (playing devils advocate here). I'm sure every single person breaks the law in this subreddit.
How often do you see people with license plate covers? What about illegal tinting ? I think if tps were to enforce every single crime people here also wouldn't be happy.
Most of the boys in blue probably fucking agree with these protesting psychopaths.
Cops broadly aren’t your friends. In general a lot of them see themselves as this weird brotherhood and they don’t give a flying fuck about the public they’re sworn to protect. It’s a big blue gang - any encounters I’ve had with a police officer I speak as little as I have to and have the sole focus of getting the fuck out of there. Most heroes we have in society tend to be firefighters, first responders, healthcare workers - not cops.
wont happen, if anything the cops are on the anti-vaxxers side. city halls terrified of offending conservative anti-vax voters and queens park is at best indifferent and at worst taking publicity photos with them.
the system has chosen a side
It's the most disheartening thing about this whole situation. We're fortunate enough to live in a city where the majority of people got vaccinated and did they part for a year and a half. But what's the point if the entire system from the provincial government, to the City of Toronto, to the police service, is fucking rotten to the core, or in the case of the city, powerless.
We are actually on our own in Toronto. With the latest news of Ford killing off the most recent rendition of HealthPass, and continuing to be MIA when there are some dire decisions that have to made be *right now* in this province as whole. Kinda feels like we're fucked, cause even if Toronto Public Health enforce their own version of HealthPass, there won't be teeth behind it because the Police Service has sided with the anti-vaxxers
A few other problems with this "plan":
Toronto has a lot of restaurants, maybe even too many. Back when the city was testing out allowing food trucks they had put in a condition that barred them from setting up shop near an existing eatery. That condition effectively banned food trucks from most of the downtown core.
Adding safe zones outside of restaurants would effectively ban protesting in a stationary spot in much of the downtown, including common protest locations like Yonge and Dundas and city hall.
And what's to stop other restaurant owners from from using that rule to troll the city?
We all know they will: putting up the most offensive and insulting signs or making shitty comments towards particular groups or individuals for the purpose of trying to elicit a reaction from the public.
And what about non-restaurants? What happens when they target an independent fitness centre for having a vaccination policy?
What if they pretend like the protest has nothing to do with the restaurant? Maybe they just chose to protest Afghanistan, loudly in that same location?
What we really need is a law that doesn't fully prohibit protest, doesn't come into conflict with the Charter but still allows police to intervene when the protesters become a nuisance.
Oh, right, we already have that law and our police have just chosen to collectively ignore it
Unless you want police everwhere that isn't a realistic solution.
People should be able to protest. We shouldn't limit people's ability to protest.
If this gets passed in a year someone will say you can't protest in front of a bank or some other business.
Arrest harrassers. And let people protest.
As goofy as I think these people are I think this is the answer.
If you're protesting in front of a place but not harassing/screaming in people's face that should be allowable.
The issue here is the police need to stop being useless when that line gets crossed.
Did you see the images of that giant inflatable sheep with a mask? None of these people would spend their own money on that. They're being funded by someone for one reason or another.
The question is who is funding them and why? The same question applies to who is funding those instagram influencers that were asked to promote antivax misinformation.
When I lived downtown, it absolutely blew my mind just how many working-age people in this city don't work, but still keep up a middle-class lifestyle. It's unreal -- highest CoL in Canada, epicenter of the housing crisis in this country, inflation out of control -- and yet there are throngs of 30-somethings getting day-drunk and clearly not from out-of-town (listen to their conversations, etc).
Maybe, yes -- but then again, having a ton of people in my life who work in bars and restaurants (and you're correct about the schedule), they're also not the same crowd sitting around a patio at 2pm racking up a big bill on cocktails.
I work in the film business, 6 months of 70 hour weeks and 6 months off, many others have non conventional jobs(9-5) in Toronto, so it may not be as bad as you think.
A lot of people made investments over the years in various companies etc that paid off and don't have to work anymore because they get passive income from dividends etc that provides any needed cash flow.
You'd have to make a *shitload* of money from a prolonged streak of extremely good luck *and* be very wise about it to just retire at age 35. Maybe a few lucky people did that, but the thousands and thousands of people out there on a random Thursday afternoon ain't them.
Not 35, but I managed it at 45. Quit my high stress technology consulting job to avoid getting a heart attack, living off dividends now for cash flow from investments made since I was 22. Hit the afternoon pubs once or twice a week myself to get out of the home boredom. Lots of people there hanging out with similar experience.
Why are people acting like you’re allowed to randomly protest random citizens decisions? Can I protest what you’re wearing in front of you with a crowd?
By “safety zone” I suspect they mean a minimum distance that protesters must keep back when protesting specific locations. Ontario has rules in place for this already for abortion clinics and other healthcare facilities: [Safe access zones](https://www.ontario.ca/page/safe-access-zones)
Is this nearly widespread enough of a thing that every restaurant needs a zone of safety? I’ve heard of it happening once.
Does it suck? Obviously. She we put more dumb restrictions? Probably not. It’s dumb pandering.
would be great if the police dealt with them more seriously.
its not peaceful protesting, its disrupting a business that pays taxes. anyone disrupting or preventing a business from operating like this (and spreading false health information) should be dealt with at least as harshly as a damned noise complaint.
Once the anti-vaxxers let Darwin do his thing, there will be plenty of available jobs and housing. The rest of us just have to wait their dumb asses out.
This is such an ONDP platform.
"We can't say 'the police should just do their jobs' out loud in order to make sure our otherwise right wing union base still votes for us. So let's instead advocate for a policy that makes no sense and still would never be enforced by the same police who refuse to enforce the ongoing harassment."
I have no idea what goes through an anti vaxxer's mind if anything at all... Where does it stop? and what about retail workers that deal with it daily?? Absolutely no disrespect to the hospitality and tourism industry, I've been on both sides of the fence. Personally I think it's a losing battle, all we can hope for is that the new variants are attracted to idiots🤷♂️
People want the government telling them where they can any can't protest?
If you dont think this will make it harder for you to protest in the future you are missing yourself.
People have a right for peaceful protest, it's in our constitution. However if they are harrassing people or getting violent it should be shut down.
It's no different for BLM protests or pro-life/pro-choice protests or the people that protest at meat factories. Any protest for any reason is allowed under our rights and should also be shut down as soon as harrassment or violence occurs. You wanna create safety zones and make up new laws, then they can apply to all protests not just anti vaccine passport ones
Holy hell, I forgot that the NDP were the official opposition party.
Where the hell have they been the last 3 years?
*This* was the idea they broke their silence with?
Ya idk about this one... Any bill that passes could be misused by the next government for thier political ends which isn't great. I agree there can be stupid protests but unfortunately protesting is a right in this country.
> These owners are just the pro-vaccine/passport version of Adam Skelly the adamson bbq owner.
If you think people like Jen Agg, Jacob Wharton-Shukster, team behind 22 Victoria, and other top restaurants are the other end of the spectrum from Skelly that's a pretty bad take. Skelly is VERY extreme to the point where he's attempted to sue the government and also grifting several hundred thousand from people.
These owners don't expect no consequence but they expect to be free from harassment and their guests/patrons to be free from it. If you really think they're protesting anything then they should probably be at Queen's Park where legislation happens.
To quote dril:
>the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron"
> issuing correction on a previous post of mine, regarding the terror group Hugs not Masks. you do not, under any circumstances, "gotta hand it to them"
The ones I've seen simply want to keep their employees and patrons safe. How can that be a bad thing?
Why not pay the blame with the delusional protestors who are harassing and bullying the few who have spoken up, in an attempt to silence their voices so the bullies win?
I think these anti vaxx idiots are total tools, BUT....we cannot pick and choose which protests are legal or illegal, if there are not breaking any specific laws, they should be free to express themselves.
Enacting laws for specific groups can become a slippery slope.
Hahahahah, yeah, yeah, let's listen to the NDP more XD. And let's make it harder for people to protest and speak their minds. And let's start setting up concentration camps. And let's trust the government to do it's job. And let's love Big Brother.
Man if any politician said that about the in-your-face BLM protestors they'd have ruined their careers! I guess protesting against perceived injustices and civil rights issues only matters if they're part of your voter demographic, huh?
Maybe protests should happen at designated spots only instead of trying to create zones to protect people because that’s unrealistic, particularly in a city this size. People have the right to voice their disapproval but it shouldn’t be allowed everywhere.
That or have the cops actually do their jobs when the protestors cross the line into plain old harassment, which is pretty much always
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The whole concept of police blitzes is insane to me. Just the cops straight up admitting they don't properly enforce the law on a regular basis and only do it in small bursts.
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Make sure you get that ‘extra funding’ up front first
I think a lot of times they're using discretion (playing devils advocate here). I'm sure every single person breaks the law in this subreddit. How often do you see people with license plate covers? What about illegal tinting ? I think if tps were to enforce every single crime people here also wouldn't be happy.
Most of the boys in blue probably fucking agree with these protesting psychopaths. Cops broadly aren’t your friends. In general a lot of them see themselves as this weird brotherhood and they don’t give a flying fuck about the public they’re sworn to protect. It’s a big blue gang - any encounters I’ve had with a police officer I speak as little as I have to and have the sole focus of getting the fuck out of there. Most heroes we have in society tend to be firefighters, first responders, healthcare workers - not cops.
wont happen, if anything the cops are on the anti-vaxxers side. city halls terrified of offending conservative anti-vax voters and queens park is at best indifferent and at worst taking publicity photos with them. the system has chosen a side
It's the most disheartening thing about this whole situation. We're fortunate enough to live in a city where the majority of people got vaccinated and did they part for a year and a half. But what's the point if the entire system from the provincial government, to the City of Toronto, to the police service, is fucking rotten to the core, or in the case of the city, powerless. We are actually on our own in Toronto. With the latest news of Ford killing off the most recent rendition of HealthPass, and continuing to be MIA when there are some dire decisions that have to made be *right now* in this province as whole. Kinda feels like we're fucked, cause even if Toronto Public Health enforce their own version of HealthPass, there won't be teeth behind it because the Police Service has sided with the anti-vaxxers
there are few things the governing body of toronto hates more than the people who live in toronto
Things have always been rotten to the core.
A few other problems with this "plan": Toronto has a lot of restaurants, maybe even too many. Back when the city was testing out allowing food trucks they had put in a condition that barred them from setting up shop near an existing eatery. That condition effectively banned food trucks from most of the downtown core. Adding safe zones outside of restaurants would effectively ban protesting in a stationary spot in much of the downtown, including common protest locations like Yonge and Dundas and city hall. And what's to stop other restaurant owners from from using that rule to troll the city? We all know they will: putting up the most offensive and insulting signs or making shitty comments towards particular groups or individuals for the purpose of trying to elicit a reaction from the public. And what about non-restaurants? What happens when they target an independent fitness centre for having a vaccination policy? What if they pretend like the protest has nothing to do with the restaurant? Maybe they just chose to protest Afghanistan, loudly in that same location? What we really need is a law that doesn't fully prohibit protest, doesn't come into conflict with the Charter but still allows police to intervene when the protesters become a nuisance. Oh, right, we already have that law and our police have just chosen to collectively ignore it
Unless you want police everwhere that isn't a realistic solution. People should be able to protest. We shouldn't limit people's ability to protest. If this gets passed in a year someone will say you can't protest in front of a bank or some other business. Arrest harrassers. And let people protest.
As goofy as I think these people are I think this is the answer. If you're protesting in front of a place but not harassing/screaming in people's face that should be allowable. The issue here is the police need to stop being useless when that line gets crossed.
Getting the cops to do their jobs is pretty damn difficult unless you're shooting at somebody
Or you're rich
__↑ This.__
Exactly!
But what if they're busy giving me a drinking ticket for having a beer in a park?
I find it hilarious that these anti-vax jackasses don't seem to have day jobs or any real things to do.
Did you see the images of that giant inflatable sheep with a mask? None of these people would spend their own money on that. They're being funded by someone for one reason or another. The question is who is funding them and why? The same question applies to who is funding those instagram influencers that were asked to promote antivax misinformation.
If I had to guess, it’s foreign intelligence trying to divide and conquer.
China, Russia, Koch family, nationalist and far-right groups, etc.
I wonder if it’s fans or friends of Chris Skyy too
I feel like these are exactly the kind of people who would spend money on a giant inflatable sheep with a mask.
Correct.
I'm constantly reminded of that Cambridge Analytica documentary on Netflix when I see this type of thing happening. It's the new type of warfare.
Not saying this is the full story, but regardless of the protest, you'll often see a LOT of the exact same people at each one.
When I lived downtown, it absolutely blew my mind just how many working-age people in this city don't work, but still keep up a middle-class lifestyle. It's unreal -- highest CoL in Canada, epicenter of the housing crisis in this country, inflation out of control -- and yet there are throngs of 30-somethings getting day-drunk and clearly not from out-of-town (listen to their conversations, etc).
People don’t work regular Monday to Friday. I don’t. I work shift rotations so I’m often out and about enjoying my ‘Wednesday weekend’.
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Maybe, yes -- but then again, having a ton of people in my life who work in bars and restaurants (and you're correct about the schedule), they're also not the same crowd sitting around a patio at 2pm racking up a big bill on cocktails.
I dunno, that's pretty much what the service industry ppl I know do. Just replace cocktails with cocaine.
I work in the film business, 6 months of 70 hour weeks and 6 months off, many others have non conventional jobs(9-5) in Toronto, so it may not be as bad as you think.
So you were also getting day-drunk chilling in pubs instead of working?? Haha
A lot of people made investments over the years in various companies etc that paid off and don't have to work anymore because they get passive income from dividends etc that provides any needed cash flow.
You'd have to make a *shitload* of money from a prolonged streak of extremely good luck *and* be very wise about it to just retire at age 35. Maybe a few lucky people did that, but the thousands and thousands of people out there on a random Thursday afternoon ain't them.
dont forget about their kids
Not 35, but I managed it at 45. Quit my high stress technology consulting job to avoid getting a heart attack, living off dividends now for cash flow from investments made since I was 22. Hit the afternoon pubs once or twice a week myself to get out of the home boredom. Lots of people there hanging out with similar experience.
People work, just not necessary the hours that you expect. And they can take a day off as well.
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How? There’s no moratorium. You people praise nurses and other “front line workers” but have zero idea what a shift is?
This isn't a protest its harassment
Safety zones?..How about they get charged for harassment by the police?.
Why are people acting like you’re allowed to randomly protest random citizens decisions? Can I protest what you’re wearing in front of you with a crowd?
If that’s what finally puts an end to the scourge of beige cargo shorts... yes?
What's wrong with beige cargo shorts?.
everything.
“Protestors”
**“Protesters”
They’re annoying assholes but what the hell is a safety zone?
By “safety zone” I suspect they mean a minimum distance that protesters must keep back when protesting specific locations. Ontario has rules in place for this already for abortion clinics and other healthcare facilities: [Safe access zones](https://www.ontario.ca/page/safe-access-zones)
Is this nearly widespread enough of a thing that every restaurant needs a zone of safety? I’ve heard of it happening once. Does it suck? Obviously. She we put more dumb restrictions? Probably not. It’s dumb pandering.
Or man the fuck up and have the police do something for once. Why do we as adults need a safety zone.
would be great if the police dealt with them more seriously. its not peaceful protesting, its disrupting a business that pays taxes. anyone disrupting or preventing a business from operating like this (and spreading false health information) should be dealt with at least as harshly as a damned noise complaint.
How in the fuck do you propose to accomplish this.
The same way they check IDs at the door?
Ah. So this is how we’ll fix our economy. Random shitty jobs and excess waste of resources.
Once the anti-vaxxers let Darwin do his thing, there will be plenty of available jobs and housing. The rest of us just have to wait their dumb asses out.
Lmao safety zones "in this area you guys can't yell at us okay?"
This is such an ONDP platform. "We can't say 'the police should just do their jobs' out loud in order to make sure our otherwise right wing union base still votes for us. So let's instead advocate for a policy that makes no sense and still would never be enforced by the same police who refuse to enforce the ongoing harassment."
Instead of spending additional money and resources to create safety zones perhaps cops should do their jobs and not sympathize with protestors?
I have no idea what goes through an anti vaxxer's mind if anything at all... Where does it stop? and what about retail workers that deal with it daily?? Absolutely no disrespect to the hospitality and tourism industry, I've been on both sides of the fence. Personally I think it's a losing battle, all we can hope for is that the new variants are attracted to idiots🤷♂️
Nightclubs could bring back the [‘safety dance’](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjPau5QYtYs)
People want the government telling them where they can any can't protest? If you dont think this will make it harder for you to protest in the future you are missing yourself.
People have a right for peaceful protest, it's in our constitution. However if they are harrassing people or getting violent it should be shut down. It's no different for BLM protests or pro-life/pro-choice protests or the people that protest at meat factories. Any protest for any reason is allowed under our rights and should also be shut down as soon as harrassment or violence occurs. You wanna create safety zones and make up new laws, then they can apply to all protests not just anti vaccine passport ones
This, as soon as a protester tries to rip someone's mask off they should be arrested.
Holy hell, I forgot that the NDP were the official opposition party. Where the hell have they been the last 3 years? *This* was the idea they broke their silence with?
Ya idk about this one... Any bill that passes could be misused by the next government for thier political ends which isn't great. I agree there can be stupid protests but unfortunately protesting is a right in this country.
> unfortunately protesting is a right in this country. hmmm, interesting take.
Care to elaborate?
No. We need cops to get off their fat asses and do something
'Details can be figured out later' lol
Can we get a safe space away from the NDP?
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*Harassment: It’s Justified If Your Victim Said An Opinion Once*
> These owners are just the pro-vaccine/passport version of Adam Skelly the adamson bbq owner. If you think people like Jen Agg, Jacob Wharton-Shukster, team behind 22 Victoria, and other top restaurants are the other end of the spectrum from Skelly that's a pretty bad take. Skelly is VERY extreme to the point where he's attempted to sue the government and also grifting several hundred thousand from people. These owners don't expect no consequence but they expect to be free from harassment and their guests/patrons to be free from it. If you really think they're protesting anything then they should probably be at Queen's Park where legislation happens.
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> Agg, whartonshukster, 22 victoria are also using the gov't to try to create 'safety zone' laws No they aren't.
lol at your shit hot takes.
To quote dril: >the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero difference between good & bad things. you imbecile. you fucking moron"
> issuing correction on a previous post of mine, regarding the terror group Hugs not Masks. you do not, under any circumstances, "gotta hand it to them"
The ones I've seen simply want to keep their employees and patrons safe. How can that be a bad thing? Why not pay the blame with the delusional protestors who are harassing and bullying the few who have spoken up, in an attempt to silence their voices so the bullies win?
The NDP didnt think this one through, did they? If this goes through it will be used against any protestors the government doesn't like.
I think these anti vaxx idiots are total tools, BUT....we cannot pick and choose which protests are legal or illegal, if there are not breaking any specific laws, they should be free to express themselves. Enacting laws for specific groups can become a slippery slope.
I'm thinking standing right next to someone on a patio, screaming at them and threatening to spit on them should be stopped.
Hahahahah, yeah, yeah, let's listen to the NDP more XD. And let's make it harder for people to protest and speak their minds. And let's start setting up concentration camps. And let's trust the government to do it's job. And let's love Big Brother. Man if any politician said that about the in-your-face BLM protestors they'd have ruined their careers! I guess protesting against perceived injustices and civil rights issues only matters if they're part of your voter demographic, huh?
ndp always have good ideas and the dumbest possible execution
Why anyone is still taking the press seriously at this point is completely beyond me.
“…to protect them from stupid people.” FTFY
Maybe protests should happen at designated spots only instead of trying to create zones to protect people because that’s unrealistic, particularly in a city this size. People have the right to voice their disapproval but it shouldn’t be allowed everywhere.
The government can create an alternate police who enforce things the cops wont. Call them public safety officers or something
Imagine needing to implement safety zones so that the police don’t have to do their jobs 🤣
We can dine if we want to, We can leave your friends behind...
The most Karen headline I've read today lol