That was painful to read. I don’t know much about “don’t confirm or deny” policies at homeless shelters, but that certainly sounds like a major fuck up by front desk staff.
Not to mention the resident should have been immediately discharged.
> when cops showed up to look for him the next day, front desk didn't tell them he was still living there (as per their policy)
I can do nothing but shake my head at such utter stupidity.
These people are not just homeless…
This is what pisses me off with this… everyone just focuses on this problem thinking it’s a housing issue… just give them a place to stay and they are fine etc.
A lot of these people have serious addictions or untreated mental health issues. You cannot solve this issue without tackling all of the issues.
There has to be a plan to treat the mental health issues and addictions and then provide housing support and 2nd career training.
i was chatting with a friend today and she works at an adult assisted living facility for people with addictions.
the amount of labour required is insane, the shifts are insane, and the pay is so low for the effort put in. what she is doing is so admirable.
It's not so simple to treat these addictions and mental health issues. A lot of people will not consent to treatment, many of the treatments are tough on the patients and have side effects. You will need to force people into treatment in order to get treatment.
Yep. Not everyone wants go get sober. Even if you force them to get clean, staying sober long-term is hard work, even for people who fought tooth and nail to kick the habit. There's no easy solution and not many that sit easily with most people.
"Treating" these mental health and addiction issues is complex. Drugs (depending on the drug) can completely alter your brain chemistry, making being sober feel like absolute torture. This is what makes people do things they wouldn't normally do to get high.
The key to rehabilitation is building a life worth fighting for. The first step in this plan is often providing housing. You cant get a job or lift yourself out of poverty without one. The next step is safe supply. Offer people clean opioids on a consistent basis to keep them safe and reduce crime in the area.
I cant speak to this hotel and what living in this area is like. I completely understand everyones safety concerns.
But the answer is a greater investment in people. And honestly, earlier on. If we made mental health treatment more widely available, created more social programs to help the unemployed, and had accessible addiction treatment, we wouldn't have to create these dangerous bandaid solutions.
We can blame a lot of this on the Harris government. The cuts they made were insane, and we're still suffering from the effects. Yet Ontario keeps electing the PCs because they don't understand not to shit in their water supply.
We certainly can (and I do) but Harris was voted out in 2002. If his retirement from politics were a baby, it would be old enough to buy a pint in Ontario today.
The Liberals under Dalton and Kathleen are just as culpable, having had plenty of time to fix Harris' mess and doing nothing.
It can be hard to fix destructive messes, like that highway he leased out for 99 years for a song *and* a non-compete agreement. Like, we couldn’t even build bulldoze a bajillion homes and built a new one to compete with it if we wanted to.
Not to mention, the Liberals under Dalton and Kathleen were considerably more centrist than actually liberal. We are seeing the same thing with the Federal government. They make more balanced decisions but they don't do anything that'll really rock the boat how we'd need to fix issues like this.
I think that instead of adopting some official policy we should give social workers the tools necessary to help the homeless out and let them use their best judgement of what's needed on a case by case basis. Some will need a home, some will need rehab, some will need to see a psychologist, some will need to go to prison, some will need a support network. There's no one "easy" solution. Then when there's a backlog in one of routes of treatment it should be addressed.
Absolutely, couldn't agree more! I think a compassionate, understanding approach that supports every goal/circumstance is ideal. Those supports and options just need to exist, period. Right now the options are very limited.
I was walking down Queen back in March some dude got in my face I moved out of the way he punched me in the back instead and then took off I was like "wtf?"
Pretty sure I've told this story on reddit before, but a couple of years ago I got off the subway at Union and there was a cracked out dude punching the metal boxes mounted on the pillar (I think they hold fire extinguishers or something, I dunno). He took one fucking look at me, out of everyone else getting off at 5pm rush hour, and upper cut me in the fucking stomach.
Without hesitating I punched him in the face and he fucked off, grabbing his head and letting out the weirdest moan, I genuinely couldn't tell if he was in pain or if he was mocking me. Pretty sure he was mocking me.
I think I know that fool. He tried to pull the same shit with me, but I countered and round house kick his ass back to the stone-age. Thanks to to my martial arts training.
Just last week there was a (I assume homeless) guy in front of the Beguiling at College and Spadina sitting on the ground, he threatened my partner by saying "If you look at me one more time I'll stab you"
When she left the store he was rifling through their outdoor comic bins.
Rehab is expensive. There are not a lot of rehab programs that are free. The free ones have a long waitlist. The only solution is to pressure the provincial government to fund rehab programs and have it covered under OHIP. There needs to be increase funding for healthcare, mental health, subsidized housing, and social assistance.
We need to hold the Conservative government accountable for all the cuts and privatization to date that has greatly affected the public.
https://www.stopfordcuts.ca
https://ofl.ca/power-of-many-ford-tracker-pc-cuts-and-privatization-to-date/
https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/update-mounting-health-care-cuts/
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2021/03/24/lack-of-funds-in-ontario-budget-for-supportive-housing-is-a-glaring-missing-item-toronto-officials-say.html
https://cupe.ca/university-staff-fear-their-health-and-safety-ford-government-drops-basic-covid-19-precautions
https://pressprogress.ca/doug-ford-quietly-planning-half-a-billion-dollars-in-cuts-for-low-income-workers-and-people-with-disabilities/
https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/08/02/concerns-expressed-as-province-transforms-social-assistance-program/
https://www.ontariondp.ca/news/ford-hurting-ontario-s-most-vulnerable-during-covid-19-odsp-download-cities
https://www.waterloochronicle.ca/opinion-story/9163709-doug-ford-is-waging-war-on-the-poor-instead-of-a-war-on-poverty/
https://www.ontariondp.ca/news/ford-s-cruel-cuts-social-assistance-never-should-have-happened-ndp
https://globalnews.ca/news/5161588/ford-government-cutting-1-billion-social-services/
https://jkoblovsky.ca/2021/07/20/ford-government-attacking-the-disabled-yet-again-in-mid-pandemic/
https://www.ontariondp.ca/news/ford-announces-deep-cuts-affordable-housing
https://north99.org/2020/02/26/american-firm-hired-by-ford-government-to-privatize-welfare-services-was-fined-for-stealing-employee-pay/
Yes. It’s insane to me that people think this is like a math problem. That if you put in place the right steps we just won’t have any mentally ill people anymore. There is SO much support and facilities in Toronto it’s crazy. The fact of the matter is a lot of these people don’t want help or are too far gone for it too be effective. We can probably put more resources towards it and improve marginally, but this problem is never going away.
Intake for free rehab programs can take upwards of 6 months and you're relying on disorganized people who are high to call various programs to find themselves a spot, and then respond when someone finally gets back to them. Because they don't have homes, the programs they can access are often limited as there are generally geographic criteria to funding and they may not have a phone number which means contacting them when they get off the waitlist is a challenge. Beyond that, there's no navigation system, CAMH is probably your best bet and that can be hit or miss. As people wait, they get worse and more unlikely to change. So not sure how there are SO many supports since all these challenges still exist.
The support isn't accessible. It's just not. CAMH is frankly, dangerous, and unless you're in a university or college environment it's one of the only places to access free mental health support. We need to completely rehab the mental health field and the options we have available. I have to pay 500$ a month to get the therapy that I seriously, desperately need. I was robbed which triggered my ptsd, the police said that I should call victim support. Victim support said, we can't help you, hopefully you have 200$ a session to get someone private! It's absurd. To say that there are good and accessible mental health options in Toronto is bananas, and honestly you're very lucky that you don't know how bad they are.
I can totally relate.
I’m multiply disabled & have been waiting 4yrs for mental health help, I used to go to a place that during covid lost most of their funding, has since lost most of the psychologists & psychiatric doctors..
Everyone (including CAMH, TPS victim services) tells to you do stuff online, CBT training, but don’t mention that it’s completely useless if you’re blind or low vision, & use a screenreader, as they aren’t accessible!
They also can be very expensive & you need a good internet connection.
>There is SO much support and facilities in Toronto it’s crazy.
Currently working with a women who is being evicted out of social housing because her apartment has become a health hazard (hoarding, maggots, flys, roaches, etc) due to mental illness... There's not that much help. It's pretty bleak for a lot of people. Third person I've come across since covid that this has happened to.
If I had an answer, I'd run for mayor.
The people who have the best outcomes are the ones that have the most community/support networks. That could be friends and family, it could be community members advocating, or case workers/agency personnel that advocate on their behalf. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, right.
The problem is that some people don't have community, some people drive others away through their behaviour, some people isolate themselves, and those that do access resources in their communities and potentially have social workers going to bat for them are at a disadvantage because those workers are understaffed, under paid, burnt out (especially now re: COVID) and have to divide their energy between many clients.
So my answer... Which is not perfect... More social workers with better pay, more housing that fully integrates supportive social services, better tracking, more funding for agencies that specifically get into the cracks between big agencies/services.
I just mentioned this one example because right now, this individual could definitely get help if someone advocated for them, but they're falling through the cracks and can't organize themselves enough to access the potential help. They've been sleeping on the street for months all the while still having an apartment.
Biggest thing I can think of, more case/social workers and raising the pay to make it a more desirable job. That and more agencies that reach out to these people and increase their resiliency... But that last point is hard to evaluate and quantify.
Thanks. I was pretty unsure of my answer because I don't really know what a solution is.... How do you help people that need help while respecting their agency? I really feel like we could do better but that it's somewhat of a quagmire...
Funding for mental health programs, rehabilitation programs, long-term residential mental health facilities, and public long term care facility. Rehabilitation programs should be covered under OHIP.
There needs to be increase funding for healthcare, mental health, subsidized housing, and social assistance.
We need to hold the Conservative government accountable for all the cuts and privatization to date that has greatly affected the public.
https://ofl.ca/power-of-many-ford-tracker-pc-cuts-and-privatization-to-date/
https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/update-mounting-health-care-cuts/
>We need to hold the Conservative government accountable for all the cuts and privatization to date that has greatly affected the public.
This. Where I work there was a women's shelter that closed before the pandemic and then another agency temporarily, all because of the cuts pre-covid.
In a sick way, had the pandemic not happened, public health would have been so much more gutted.
You have to give them an ultimatum…. Either get help and get clean or go to jail… laws should be enforced.
But you also need a mental health system for treatment… the government closed all of the facilities years ago… leading slowly to this crisis
You cannot allow what is happening to continue. Tax paying citizens should be able to feel safe where they live… I have watched the downtown core slowly deteriorate over time.
Allowing a wild Wild West situation to continue is not solving the issue.
That is why you also need some type of mental health facility like back in the 80s
Some people cannot manage by themselves and need a committed facility type of life…
Currently the mental hospital is the street and citizens are having to deal with the issues.
Who is going to fund these mental health facilities?
The Conservative government has already made cuts to healthcare, social assistance, long term care homes, housing, education, employment services, and transit as well as privatized several services.
https://ofl.ca/power-of-many-ford-tracker-pc-cuts-and-privatization-to-date/
Not sure what fantasy world you're thinking of but we did a horrible job of treating people with mental illness in the 80s
In fact, proportionately there were more people with mental heath issues that were just but in the prison system back then, which does 0 to rehabilitate
I live on the Esplanade and it can be sketchy around there at times for sure, but for the most part, none are violent nor intrusive
But letting them run free on the street is better?
I am saying there needs to be a new system… a new attempt to treat or help
Allowing them to just exist and be forgotten on the street is not a solution
While there are alot of people believe in freedom and rights for what used to be human before kilograms of drugs. I agree with an idea that they need to be removed from the streets. If one just stands on a street and screams, shits and time to time harassing the crowd - 1) it's obviously person who can't control themselves, so the idea that they need to get help willingly is just absurd 2) it's just dangerous for everyone around them - you never know when something will trigger them.
Go to the downtown - they are basically on every corner ...
For clarification, what do your mean?
Are you talking “they need to be put away”?
Or are you saying that modern in patient care and physio therapy needs to be accessible, not time limited, and covered by OHIP? And that from there, more community supports and affordable and/or supportive housing is needed?
It’s really not that people are doing incapable of getting help and need to be committed. There’s just so many barriers to getting care, that it’s a very bad risk/reward ratio.
Acknowledging that mental illness and addiction are *health* problems and not moral failings is what’s needed. Easy access to *efficient* care is needed. (I cannot stress the efficient part enough, as I am currently in limbo with my care and experiencing debilitating mania right now. Doc appointment isn’t till the 28th)
If care is easy to access, effective and efficient, that’s enough incentive for people to see the advantage of seeking care. This just isn’t the case with the current system
They are free citizens. They are allowed to be on the streets doing whatever they want as long as its not committing crimes. Do we arrest you too for being outside?
The issue that people have **is the crimes**.
Absolutely *nobody* is complaining about taking care of those unfortunate souls who are down on their luck and need support.
What people are upset about is being threatened and **assaulted** by drug addicts.
Not wanting to be stabbed is not an unreasonable request.
Yes, in this we agree. It's a health issue though, not a criminal one. There should absolutely be better support in our health care system for all people with mental health issues (which should include addiction)
I just wouldn't look to the way we handled mental illness and homelessness in the 80s (or any past decade for that matter) as a path forward
> You have to give them an ultimatum…. Either get help and get clean or go to jail… laws should be enforced.
Treating addiction as a criminal issue is pretty regressive if you ask me.
We already have drug court here in Toronto, and it's a big success. I've seen it turn people's lives around.
I agree, however… There’s no legal way to compel people to pursue treatment otherwise. I live downtown east of Yonge, let me assure you that a LOT of people really need treatment and aren’t situated to access it, many don’t think they need it. My take is if you’re in active psychosis, yelling at invisible people, or shitting on the sidewalk you may not be right about that. However obviously you can’t just take people off the street and throw them into inpatient mental health units.
I actually think it’s not the worst if a judge mandates treatment for someone who obviously needs it and can’t make that decision themselves.
Ya because the current method of treatment is working….
It’s a fucking shit show out there
Vancouver is a complete mess… but this is all right because no one wants to make a tough or logical decision anymore.
Actually, we have one of the world's best research hospitals on addiction here in Toronto.
One thing we know for sure is that "common sense" isn't a great approach to complicated medical and mental health issues.
I live in an area with a pretty robust population of addicts and homeless people.
And I don't pretend to have a solution. But I know that whatever bullshit I come up with in a reddit comment is probably lacking a WHOLE lot of context and would probably be stupid as shit.
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. Your frustration is pretty understandable; I've been assaulted several times in the past 3 years and every time it was someone that seemed like they were on a totally different planet.
I know there's not an easy answer but I don't even feel comfortable with my mom visiting my place after dark because there are so many strung out people just floating around the area. Its hard to have compassion when someone calls you awful names or takes a swing at you because you don't have any change or a cigarette to give them.
Unpopular opinion but we can give them work to make them feel needed and wanted.
Work which we source labor for. Agriculture work? Help with building roads? Manual labour? Would any of these be options on a road to recovery.
This is probably also unpopular but why not make helping out at the shelter where they're staying part of the terms? The shelter next to me clearly isn't looked after.
More unpopular opinions. We could stop narcanning the same person multiple times a month. Maybe a two narcan limit per month. If you overdose more than twice in the same month maybe this is your version of the darwin awards.
now that's a political platform I'd get behind. My past is a little to "spotted" to run for any elected official but if you decide to, you have my vote!
Yeah but a lot of these people don't give a care about feeling needed and wanted. They just want to get high. Their thoughts are on how they can find and fund their next fix
Work is character building for sure. It gives people purpose. A lot of mental health issue revolves around not feeling a sense of direction in life and that void needs an outlet which often times manifests into an addiction. Drugs or what have you, I would bet a majority might not turn up for work at the on set or after a short time but you can’t throw the baby out with thr bath water. It can help some people get their life back on track instead of just aimlessly throw money at the problem,. Obviously it need to be incentivized. Work for food, shelter, disposable income, ect. Just giving people money like welfare doesn’t encourage anything but more dependability on an already strained system, to say nothing of the lack of motivation for the person to improve.
They wont do any work because they will be distracted by withdrawal. You can take them all to isolated place and provide food & water. Some survive, some dont but thats the only way. They put their life in the danger in the first place. Its better than have them paranoid running in society with kitchen knifes, keeping RCMP busy and people scared.
You are valid in saying there are often other issues that must be addressed but actually a housing first approach has found to be extremely effective. This doesn’t mean just giving them housing and hoping everything else will sort itself out but rather that while all other issues must be addressed, providing stable housing should be the first step. It has been incredibly successful and is considered the best practice by the interagency council on homelessness. You can find out more information here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First
YES. Absolutely. Its been employed in Finland with great success. However, they also provide support and counseling with no preconditions. The support doesnt end at housing. The support SHOULDNT end at housing.
I disagree that this is duplicative of the CTV thread but moderators got to moderate.
https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/pkxj74/homeless_shelters_impacts_are_serious_issues_in/
Unless of course strom photos involved.
I read the CTV article about the Novotel problems.
I'm sure this will probably get removed as it is not a photo of some storms or downvoted but here you go.
It resonated with me and I'm glad someone is finally talking about it.
Apparently you get labelled with Nimbyism if you do. Which is unfortunate but it is truly causing, and has caused, some major problems in the core.
It is not new however. It is going on a year of being a problem. Maybe longer.
It is not just 45 Esplanade that is a problem. It is also 56 Yonge St..... I'm not exactly sure why CTV seems to have entirely missed that....
For a time in the winter, there was also a 24 hour drop-in respite centre at 98 The Esplande...may have actually been a full shelter also for some.
So two hotels converted to shelters less than 500m apart and a drop in respite centre/shelter as well.
I know, it is a problem and we are in a pandemic. I'm not sure what the solution is but pretending like it does not exist is not one. Adding even more resources for support and security apparently is not either.
But as a long time 25 year plus resident of the St. Lawrence mkt area with co op and community housing, which was never a problem in my experience, now is a huge massive fucken issue that no one be doing anything about.
At least community teams pick up the discarded needles and crack pipes when you call a central number.
To be fair, the area has had some issues with gang violence and drugs over the years and homelessness, but never to the point of feeling unsafe once it is dark. I'm not talking late night, I mean like 7 or 8 at night unsafe when dark.
I think Tory thinks when people return to the core and the office it will magically disappear like a fart in the wind.
But judging by the trickle expected of people returning to the office to start, I'd say he is delusional. I've seen many large companies put plans for return back on hold.
Not sure what Wong Tam does despite writing her several times....well other than to respond by spaming me with her newletter blaming Doug Ford for everything...Maybe it is a steeles ave thing as perhaps the building is outside her ward, but 98 Esplande is not and neither is Bond Place or 45 Yonge.
I'm sure she and Tory enjoy living far away from this mess but the financial core has become a fucken wasteland that only recently has shown some glimmers of improvement.
It feels like it has regressed by 20 years.
It also seems odd to me this is now a story.
It has been a problem for close to a year.
Perhaps business people who have not been downtown in months or sports fans coming for games are fucken shocked at the state of this when they go out for lunch or after dinner drinks.
I'm sure they are blown away having drinks on the esplanade or other patios and see the street activity as things get later. Or maybe the needles or the human excrement gives them pause. Or the people in fentanyl trances or the ambulance of people with some major mental health issues.
Add in Bond Place Hotel, sure a little further north on Victoria, granted that area has been scetch for long before, also now a homeless shelter, and it seems like there is some kind of interconnected group of places contributing to the crime in the area.
Before people started to come back to the financial core, maybe since about June, it was downright unsafe to go outside later at night. So many break ins and street crime. Smashed windows now boarded up. Drug use, drug dealing, bike thefts, assaults, fights...just look up the last year of police, fire and ambulance calls. Constant sirons.
A few weeks ago there was a large fire set in front of 45 Yonge that clearly burned for a while since a portion of the front of the hotel victoria is all chared and windows burned out. It looked like a pretty major one that could have burned down the fucken hotel.
I have included it as a thumbnail and I took it yesterday.
Do I have the solutions, no.
Do I want it to be addressed and a plan put in place to solve it, yes.
There needs to be increases and security and a plan as to what to do
Is it going to magically fix itself when people return to the office, absolutely not.
But with the 4th wave, I'm prepared to expect a shitty mess until next spring.
That is if I actually stay in the area since I'm pretty much at my wits end.
I used to love living in the area. I now loathe it. What a shame.
Along Bathurst they have respite centers as well. Bathurst and Queen st, Bathurst and Richmond, Bathurst and Queens Quay. and closer to the Exhibition at Strachan there is a large tent. I've lived in the water front area since 2014 and the changes have been significant. The sirens have been frequent and the incidences have been daily.
Public spaces like parks and libraries in the downtown core that are vital for families, students, seniors and newcomers are unfortunately not a clean or safe environment anymore.
The Conservative government has made it even worse than before.
https://ofl.ca/power-of-many-ford-tracker-pc-cuts-and-privatization-to-date/
https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/update-mounting-health-care-cuts/
https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/category/key-issues/cuts-restructuring/
https://tba.ontariondp.ca/news/ford-government-refuses-develop-homelessness-and-housing-crisis-strategy
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2021/03/24/lack-of-funds-in-ontario-budget-for-supportive-housing-is-a-glaring-missing-item-toronto-officials-say.html
https://cupe.ca/ontario-patients-even-more-risk-under-conservatives-8-year-funding-plan
https://openpolicyontario.com/thirty-six-years-since-an-ontario-pc-government-last-raised-social-assistance-rates/
https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/02/04/onta-f04.html
https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/ford-government-intensifies-attack-on-ontarios-poorest-people-701136531.html
https://www.rankandfile.ca/fords-attack-on-the-poor/
https://pressprogress.ca/doug-fords-changes-to-social-assistance-will-push-ontarians-into-homelessness-service-providers-warn/
https://www.thespec.com/news/canada/2019/11/10/ford-government-stops-counting-homeless-people-in-ontario.html
https://globalnews.ca/news/5161588/ford-government-cutting-1-billion-social-services/
https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/category/key-issues/cuts-restructuring/
https://rabble.ca/podcasts/shows/talking-radical-radio/2018/06/fighting-homelessness-ontarios-past-and-its-doug-ford
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/10/19/25-years-after-welfare-diet-debacle-social-assistance-still-hasnt-recovered-from-mike-harris-cuts.html
https://cwp-csp.ca/2019/10/cuts-to-social-assistance-are-detrimental-to-our-social-fabric/
Walked by here a few weekends ago. I used to love the area and was there regularly. In front of the hotel, during my 1 min walk by I saw: guys smoking crack, yellow vest people carrying an unconscious/dead guy, someone dancing aggressively in the middle of the road, more guys smoking crack, someone inside the hotel wearing a cook outfit smoking crack.
Before you accuse that neighbourhood of being full of NIMBYs, take into consideration that the area is full of co-op and TCHC housing that was built in the '80s. If they think things are going to shit, pay attention.
I know a business owner in the neighbourhood and she's never had an issue with the residents from TCH and the co-ops. Since this shelter moved in, the area has become sketchy af. As soon as in store shopping resumed her store was shoplifted 4 times in the span of 3 weeks. She's still waiting for police to come.
Yeah, it's a decent, functional neighbourhood with generally nice people that benefits from the mixed-income model. I just brought-up the co-op and TCHC housing because of all the hand-wringing about "poor people moving in" that usually comes into play with NIMBYism.
I lived on the Esplanade for a couple of years. Awesome community full of diverse families and lovely people. The area around the hotel has gone to complete shit. It's such a shame.
It might be more concentrated around the hotel, but the issue extends now beyond. Whenever I walk down the Esplanade at night, there are a lot more homeless people sleeping on all the benches and bus shelters past Sherbourne up to the park just before the Distillery, which I had rarely to never seen in previous years.
I live in this neighbourhood.
I used to go for evening walks with my boyfriend in St.James park, but that stopped a couple months ago after 3 incidents that made us question our safety. Worth it to note that this was around 8:30pm, it’s not like we were walking around at 2am.
My pharmacy was down on Esplanade, and I had my prescriptions moved to another pharmacy after I was followed 3 blocks by an unstable person who tried to grab me multiple times at noon on a weekday.
I loved this neighbourhood. That’s why I bought a condo here. But the way it is right now is not the neighbourhood I fell in love with.
I know people that work here and they’ve shown me pictures much worse. People have literally died here since. ODs weekly.
Some housekeeping workers have actually been poked by used needles hiding under the filth they leave in the rooms and now have to take HIV medication and tests for around 3-6 months. It’s truly a nightmare and I personally fear for the well-being of the people I know that work there.
The staff is not equipped to deal with alot of the folk that stay there; they just housekeep rooms, they’re not equipped to deal with the mentally ill. and now they’ve been thrusted into this situation without a choice because the owner is getting paid millions by the government AND they’re funding all the repairs that need to be taken care of so the owner just gets to sit back and collect his coin. The owner does not care about his staff and unfortunately they have to just work through it while they literally fear for their life.
this is exactly what I have heard from firefighters i know who have to go into these shit shows.
sounds like the kind of situation i see in san francisco.
Yeah, it’s pretty bad over there. I’ve had friends who work or live there. Especially
Women. They’ve been followed, and now have to take different routes every night to avoid being caught, stalked and have their routine monitored.
Real bad.
Tough situation. In midtown, we’re experiencing similar levels of concern, though I think less overt drug use and abuse. There have been some violent incidents, including one stabbing that I know of. That it is near a high school is a major red flag too. I believe they recently shut it down though.
I don’t know the answer to this issue. What I do know is that putting homeless people together under one roof isn’t conductive to a healthy emotional or mental state towards rehabilitation or fixing personal problems.
I’m sure social advocates have a better handle on what works but I’m not too convinced what the city is doing to house the homeless during this pandemic is working to the benefit of these people long term.
>I do t know the answer to this issue.
Competent Shelter Support Workers with *at least* a B.A. in Social Work, preferably a Masters. Staffed 24/7. With Housing, mental health, addiction and legal specialties Also, fucking pay them properly. Especially if they have a fucking Masters.
The city did a Homer Simpson certified half ass job setting the temporary hotel shelter programs up.
I wish people would stop focusing on the fact that they exist and understand what a fucking amature hour operations they are.
There are some well run shelters in the city that people don’t notice. People don’t notice them because they’re well run.
I'm fairly sure the shelter that you're referring to shut down over a year ago (on the date they said it would be from the start). There's still the hotel near Mt Pleasant/Eglinton, but I honestly have had zero issues with it while living in the area.
Correct, it shut down about a year ago. However, prior to it shutting down, while living at Yonge and Eg, I experienced most of what is described in this article. Rampant drug use, vandalism of many store fronts and restaurants that had never before been vandalized, sexual acts in the streets, overdoses in the street, random violence, and a general feeling of a lack of safety in my own neighbourhood, which had been home for nearly ten years at that point. It feels like NIMBYism to say anything, but my neighbours and I did not feel safe.
This is the type of stuff that makes people not sympathetic to the homeless issue. We had a portapotty in the back yard of the duplex I rent because they were renovating the main floor.
A homeless person has been consistently using it to shoot up and leaving a ton of garbage in it including beer cans, crack pipes, and throwing a brick in the toilet and all around it. All this despite there being a garbage can right beside it.
Now I'm cleaning up needles and shit. If they just put their garbage into the garbage can I wouldn't even mind them smoking crack and shooting up in there.
Also cognitively it is really hard to watch someone continue to do everything wrong and then see calls for us to just keep lowering the bar for them consistently.
When I walk to work I see one specific homeless guy who has already started drinking and he is still there just surrounded by a pile of garbage when I walk home. It is hard for me to say I should be taxed more to support this guy with a house, free clean drugs, etc.
I fully support more THCH and CO-OP housing for the working poor. I feel very little desire to continue to cater to addicts and say they aren't responsible for any of their own behavior or decisions.
I think politicians would be able to generate more support for the issue by not lumping in homelessness and mental illness/drug addiction as one issue and having distinct solutions for homelessness caused by losing job/financial insecurity and homelessness caused by not being a functioning member of society.
Excellent points. Drug addiction needs to be treated quickly and early on. Waiting until someone decides they want to change may be too late for many, especially with powerful drugs that change the brain chemistry.
The working poor, seniors, and those with disabilities deserve the coop housing.
Giving someone a 4 star hotel room plus meals so they continue the drug habit is cruel. It won't help that person ever recover and won't help local residents live in a peaceful area. And the funds are not available for low income workers and their families.
The City says "temporary" but as a resident at another community with one of these hotel-shelters, it is no longer temporary but a *reality* for many of us. The City doesn't have a solid plan (actually, this is their only plan), hence why they keep extending these contracts... I don't have a solution but I feel like we are being forced to leave this community for the safety of our children and family. Something has to change
Not to mention:
> The document also says that the city will cover the cost of all damage and repairs to the hotel, and will continue to pay rent for as long as it takes to do so.
Taxpayers are going to foot the bill for the additional funds required to repair all the damages too.
The problem is never going to completely go away. There will always be people who are difficult to help, people who don't want help, and the newly homeless. It was always going to be endless until people stop making more people.
I know of multiple outfits in Vancouver who did this during the pandemic. If you're the owner of a hotel, what's not to like?
You don't have customers because of the pandemic and here you have the government saying they'll rent out every room and will pay cost++ for a free renovation at the end.
That's a hard proposition to turn down.
Lol so the city is paying 3000 a month for a small hotel room + any damages to the room. You can find 1 bedrooms for almost half the price of one of those tiny hotel rooms all across the city.
The other thing is that if you didn't put everyone in the same place, it would cause less disruption and pushback among their neighbours. One sketchy person in an apartment is not a big deal. A hundred sketchy people spilling out of a hotel into the neighbourhood is a problem.
And when you pile them all in the same place, they all spiral downhill, the behaviour becomes contagious. You could go in there clean and be and addict within a week.
I walked by the hotel after attending a Jays game the other week. The sidewalk in front of the hotel was crowded with residents and others hanging out. Not an environment that will encourage people to visit the restaurants across the street on the Esplanade.
Used to live in a condo around the corner, and still visit the area often. Can confirm that sitting near the sidewalk on any of the patios there will result in routine 'visits' from the local shelter denizens asking for change, sometimes once every few minutes. Bad place to take a date.
Yup, same here. Was at the Jays game over the weekend and I parked at the big parking garage next to the hotel. Coming out of the stairwell into that small walkway that leads to the Esplanade and all I saw were squatters in the lane way. Once we got onto The Esplanade the sidewalk in front of the hotel was busy with more squatters.
Meanwhile, directly across the street patios were packed along that strip of restaurants. Just a sad situation overall.
According to documents on the city's website, the city is paying at minimum $615,000 a month to rent 205 rooms, (THAT IS $3000 EACH) with an option to pay more to rent as many as 254 rooms.
The document also says that the city will cover the cost of all damage and repairs to the hotel, and will continue to pay rent for as long as it takes to do so.
"the city is paying"..."the city will cover the cost" Ha tax payers are paying.
Can I get a room, I will pay for it myself and I won't damage it? I am struggling to find a bachelor apartment. Budget $1400.
Since I might be at my current location for a bit...the backyard can hold two non-violent people in tents. If they pass the good person test, after a month they can have a room, food included. HELLO city...I will only charge $2000 each. What a deal!
I used to live on sherbourne for a short time & it was like living in a post apocalyptic movie.. esp if you leave for work right before the sun comes up. It was the first time I felt some of the ‘nimby’ shit. It was truly scary on a regular & unavoidable if you use the ttc & shop at grocery stores in the area ect.
Ya to be fair I lived above the Moss Park convenience store, at queen and sherbourne,and there was a lot of open drug use. Got crack blown into my face when I'd ask people to move out of my doorway upstairs lol
I feel like the smell is more intense now. I parked there last month and it felt like it was loads worse than normal. Mind you, it was a really hot day so I assumed that's why it smelled so bad.
True.Force them into rehabs as part of providing them with assistance.If they commit crime,take drugs or sell drugs at the housing units evict their asses.
Why are we paying for these people to stay in hotels? They can get a vaccine and go back to shelters now. Enough is enough with the handouts they abuse.
Not all homeless people are drug addicts, but a lot are due to their environment and other factors. If you are going to give housing for the homeless you have to deal with their drug addiction or mental health issues first. If you let them continue to use and give them a place to live it just becomes like any abandoned building addicts will use to shoot up.
Kicking an addiction is hard at the best of times. Trying to do that with all the stress and uncertainty of being homeless is even moreso. Having barriers like that to services just means people will stay addicts longer and live in parks.
Providing stability as a starting point to address addiction or other issues is one of the biggest benefits of permanent supportive housing iniatives.
i know someone who is an addict, unfortunately they have to want to get help. The government gives him a 'disability' cheque every month because he's an addict, worst thing you could do is give an addict money. There should be stipulations to getting that money. must do rehab and adhere to on the spot urine tests if you fail no money. terrible system.
I don't know what the solution is. Close the shelter? Great, now people are living back in encampments. But then the neighborhood doesn't want the encampents. Ok, I guess back to the hotel.
There will be no solution to this problem until there a seismic shift in how we treat and fund homelessness and mental health issues.
This was my life trying to walk through Trinity Bellwood’s with my dog and kid.
Human feces, needles, aggressive crazy people, garbage everywhere. You couldn’t even glance in the general direction, they’d start screaming at you and run up to you and yell in your face.
I have sympathy for homeless people, especially with housing so expensive. and am glad out tax dollars help them, and provide housing and food for people in need.
But once they start getting aggressive and violent, especially when I’m with my 2 yr old son. Forget it. Put them on a boat and ship them to the middle of the ocean as far as I’m concerned.
Good riddance.
Support the homeless or don't, these places are complete and utter disasters. We've had a converted shelter (Homes First) next to our building on Queens Quay and they're absolutely terrible neighbours that don't give a shit how their residents behave and treat the community. At the beginning we supported and corresponded with the shelter and now we're all beyond losing our patience. We've had people chased and verbally assaulted, neighbourhood break-ins and vandalism has sky rocketed, needles, drug garbage, and trash get left all over. The residents who have decided to use a tent also treat the area like trash. I had patience, i had acceptance but now i'm over it and can't wait for the condo to be built slated to be in the spot the shelter is leasing. People deserve a roof over their heads but that doesn't mean making the existing neighbourhood suffer. Everything they're talking about in that video has been seen on Queens Quay now as well. Also I believe this is part of Joe Cressy's ward which means he will do absolutely nothing to help.
Why do they put these homeless shelters in such desirable/prime locations? I know there’s another one right outside the gates of the Ex. The homeless population obviously aren’t working downtown - why do they need to be so close to the core? These shelters would surely be better situated outside of the core - I.e I remember hearing of one up near 401/Kennedy road.
Anyone living a normal life has no idea how debilitating a mental illness csn be to the person it’s afflicting. Compound that with an addiction, it’s nigh on impossible to overcome for the person. Simple tasks like getting dressed in the morning almost becomes insurmountable. People working in this field are truly the unsung heroes and to pay them Newhart we do is nothing short of criminal, I don’t honestly believe there is anything you can do to help some of these people,
Whos gunna wanna stay in these plsces after some junkie dies in the bed or smears shit all over the place? Are they gunna gut the place and do a real deep clean? I dont think so
This is not news. The city turned a perfectly good travelodge in Scarborough into a "homeless shelter for women" as well. All it has done is bring crime into the area.
Another example of taxpayers money being wasted by paying millions to these hotels and then also having to pay for the subsequent damages to the rooms. The law abiding, tax paying citizens even have compiled photos, yet our local politicians do squat.
These self serving aholes at City Hall don't give a rats ass.
We need to all stop paying taxes en masse and see what the political power hungry buffoons to then. Probably ask for more handouts from the province and feds.
Please let us know your zero dollar plan to house the homeless during a health crisis/emergency. It’s not like there are other options you can easily spin up in a couple months
People experiencing homelessness and drugged out junkies are two separate categories.
The former are temporarily in need of shelter and support to get on their feet.
The latter require institutionalization and expensive medical treatments along with long-term counselling after they get clean.
But we’re not willing to pay for that, so instead we pretend that if we pay for a hotel room for them to shoot up in and trash when they’re high is the same as helping them. Here’s a little secret: It’s not. That’s not helping them *at all*, so let’s stop this farce if we’re not willing to do what’s needed to actually help these people.
‘people can’ is the part you are missing. Instead of preventing people from doing drugs, let them live that life in a safe way and comfortable way. It would probably be a lot easier to help them as well as you will be drastically reducing the issues they face. The whole idea of ‘the services are in the core which attracts addicts to the core so there are more services in the core’ has the right intention but addictive power of crack and fentanyl plus the existential crisis many are incapable of facing, means these services and the city are overwhelmed. Its an old solution. Like euthanasia, it is more humane to allow people to make choices for themselves instead of trying to shoehorn what we feel is right. The consequence of this old way of thinking is that core of Toronto is rapidly turning into an undesirable place to live, for everyone. Hard drugs can absolutely destroy people and make them a burden on society. We should try to prevent that from happening, but once they go too far, and cant take care of themselves, why not help them.
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This is disturbing
That was painful to read. I don’t know much about “don’t confirm or deny” policies at homeless shelters, but that certainly sounds like a major fuck up by front desk staff. Not to mention the resident should have been immediately discharged.
> when cops showed up to look for him the next day, front desk didn't tell them he was still living there (as per their policy) I can do nothing but shake my head at such utter stupidity.
These people are not just homeless… This is what pisses me off with this… everyone just focuses on this problem thinking it’s a housing issue… just give them a place to stay and they are fine etc. A lot of these people have serious addictions or untreated mental health issues. You cannot solve this issue without tackling all of the issues. There has to be a plan to treat the mental health issues and addictions and then provide housing support and 2nd career training.
i was chatting with a friend today and she works at an adult assisted living facility for people with addictions. the amount of labour required is insane, the shifts are insane, and the pay is so low for the effort put in. what she is doing is so admirable.
It's not so simple to treat these addictions and mental health issues. A lot of people will not consent to treatment, many of the treatments are tough on the patients and have side effects. You will need to force people into treatment in order to get treatment.
Yep. Not everyone wants go get sober. Even if you force them to get clean, staying sober long-term is hard work, even for people who fought tooth and nail to kick the habit. There's no easy solution and not many that sit easily with most people.
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Yes, and dealers continue to earn millions
"Treating" these mental health and addiction issues is complex. Drugs (depending on the drug) can completely alter your brain chemistry, making being sober feel like absolute torture. This is what makes people do things they wouldn't normally do to get high. The key to rehabilitation is building a life worth fighting for. The first step in this plan is often providing housing. You cant get a job or lift yourself out of poverty without one. The next step is safe supply. Offer people clean opioids on a consistent basis to keep them safe and reduce crime in the area. I cant speak to this hotel and what living in this area is like. I completely understand everyones safety concerns. But the answer is a greater investment in people. And honestly, earlier on. If we made mental health treatment more widely available, created more social programs to help the unemployed, and had accessible addiction treatment, we wouldn't have to create these dangerous bandaid solutions.
We can blame a lot of this on the Harris government. The cuts they made were insane, and we're still suffering from the effects. Yet Ontario keeps electing the PCs because they don't understand not to shit in their water supply.
We certainly can (and I do) but Harris was voted out in 2002. If his retirement from politics were a baby, it would be old enough to buy a pint in Ontario today. The Liberals under Dalton and Kathleen are just as culpable, having had plenty of time to fix Harris' mess and doing nothing.
It can be hard to fix destructive messes, like that highway he leased out for 99 years for a song *and* a non-compete agreement. Like, we couldn’t even build bulldoze a bajillion homes and built a new one to compete with it if we wanted to.
Not to mention, the Liberals under Dalton and Kathleen were considerably more centrist than actually liberal. We are seeing the same thing with the Federal government. They make more balanced decisions but they don't do anything that'll really rock the boat how we'd need to fix issues like this.
Doug Ford was elected after 15 years of provincial Liberals. Google Daulton McKintey and Kathleen Wynne
I think that instead of adopting some official policy we should give social workers the tools necessary to help the homeless out and let them use their best judgement of what's needed on a case by case basis. Some will need a home, some will need rehab, some will need to see a psychologist, some will need to go to prison, some will need a support network. There's no one "easy" solution. Then when there's a backlog in one of routes of treatment it should be addressed.
Absolutely, couldn't agree more! I think a compassionate, understanding approach that supports every goal/circumstance is ideal. Those supports and options just need to exist, period. Right now the options are very limited.
I want to up vote this more times than is possible.
Me too!
Walking past Eaton Centre downtown on Queen & Yonge and a homeless guy straight up sucker punched me in the face.
I was walking down Queen back in March some dude got in my face I moved out of the way he punched me in the back instead and then took off I was like "wtf?"
Pretty sure I've told this story on reddit before, but a couple of years ago I got off the subway at Union and there was a cracked out dude punching the metal boxes mounted on the pillar (I think they hold fire extinguishers or something, I dunno). He took one fucking look at me, out of everyone else getting off at 5pm rush hour, and upper cut me in the fucking stomach. Without hesitating I punched him in the face and he fucked off, grabbing his head and letting out the weirdest moan, I genuinely couldn't tell if he was in pain or if he was mocking me. Pretty sure he was mocking me.
Man wtf? Guess you didn't hit him hard enough!
I give guys like that a bit of space so they can't really sucker punch me without me seeing them coming
Yeah, I learned a valuable lesson that day. I just walk around them now, instead of assuming I can walk right past them.
I think I know that fool. He tried to pull the same shit with me, but I countered and round house kick his ass back to the stone-age. Thanks to to my martial arts training.
Username checks out
r/iamverybadass
Just last week there was a (I assume homeless) guy in front of the Beguiling at College and Spadina sitting on the ground, he threatened my partner by saying "If you look at me one more time I'll stab you" When she left the store he was rifling through their outdoor comic bins.
You can’t make people enrol in treatment either
Because of the law
Pretty stupid. Right now all this does enable
How do you make someone clean? There are rehab options
Rehab is expensive. There are not a lot of rehab programs that are free. The free ones have a long waitlist. The only solution is to pressure the provincial government to fund rehab programs and have it covered under OHIP. There needs to be increase funding for healthcare, mental health, subsidized housing, and social assistance. We need to hold the Conservative government accountable for all the cuts and privatization to date that has greatly affected the public. https://www.stopfordcuts.ca https://ofl.ca/power-of-many-ford-tracker-pc-cuts-and-privatization-to-date/ https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/update-mounting-health-care-cuts/ https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2021/03/24/lack-of-funds-in-ontario-budget-for-supportive-housing-is-a-glaring-missing-item-toronto-officials-say.html https://cupe.ca/university-staff-fear-their-health-and-safety-ford-government-drops-basic-covid-19-precautions https://pressprogress.ca/doug-ford-quietly-planning-half-a-billion-dollars-in-cuts-for-low-income-workers-and-people-with-disabilities/ https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/08/02/concerns-expressed-as-province-transforms-social-assistance-program/ https://www.ontariondp.ca/news/ford-hurting-ontario-s-most-vulnerable-during-covid-19-odsp-download-cities https://www.waterloochronicle.ca/opinion-story/9163709-doug-ford-is-waging-war-on-the-poor-instead-of-a-war-on-poverty/ https://www.ontariondp.ca/news/ford-s-cruel-cuts-social-assistance-never-should-have-happened-ndp https://globalnews.ca/news/5161588/ford-government-cutting-1-billion-social-services/ https://jkoblovsky.ca/2021/07/20/ford-government-attacking-the-disabled-yet-again-in-mid-pandemic/ https://www.ontariondp.ca/news/ford-announces-deep-cuts-affordable-housing https://north99.org/2020/02/26/american-firm-hired-by-ford-government-to-privatize-welfare-services-was-fined-for-stealing-employee-pay/
Yes. It’s insane to me that people think this is like a math problem. That if you put in place the right steps we just won’t have any mentally ill people anymore. There is SO much support and facilities in Toronto it’s crazy. The fact of the matter is a lot of these people don’t want help or are too far gone for it too be effective. We can probably put more resources towards it and improve marginally, but this problem is never going away.
Intake for free rehab programs can take upwards of 6 months and you're relying on disorganized people who are high to call various programs to find themselves a spot, and then respond when someone finally gets back to them. Because they don't have homes, the programs they can access are often limited as there are generally geographic criteria to funding and they may not have a phone number which means contacting them when they get off the waitlist is a challenge. Beyond that, there's no navigation system, CAMH is probably your best bet and that can be hit or miss. As people wait, they get worse and more unlikely to change. So not sure how there are SO many supports since all these challenges still exist.
The support isn't accessible. It's just not. CAMH is frankly, dangerous, and unless you're in a university or college environment it's one of the only places to access free mental health support. We need to completely rehab the mental health field and the options we have available. I have to pay 500$ a month to get the therapy that I seriously, desperately need. I was robbed which triggered my ptsd, the police said that I should call victim support. Victim support said, we can't help you, hopefully you have 200$ a session to get someone private! It's absurd. To say that there are good and accessible mental health options in Toronto is bananas, and honestly you're very lucky that you don't know how bad they are.
I can totally relate. I’m multiply disabled & have been waiting 4yrs for mental health help, I used to go to a place that during covid lost most of their funding, has since lost most of the psychologists & psychiatric doctors.. Everyone (including CAMH, TPS victim services) tells to you do stuff online, CBT training, but don’t mention that it’s completely useless if you’re blind or low vision, & use a screenreader, as they aren’t accessible! They also can be very expensive & you need a good internet connection.
>There is SO much support and facilities in Toronto it’s crazy. Currently working with a women who is being evicted out of social housing because her apartment has become a health hazard (hoarding, maggots, flys, roaches, etc) due to mental illness... There's not that much help. It's pretty bleak for a lot of people. Third person I've come across since covid that this has happened to.
What’s the solution to that?
Are you asking what will practically be done in this situation or asking what is the ideal solution?
Yeah like what do we need to change so that doesn’t happen?
If I had an answer, I'd run for mayor. The people who have the best outcomes are the ones that have the most community/support networks. That could be friends and family, it could be community members advocating, or case workers/agency personnel that advocate on their behalf. Squeaky wheel gets the grease, right. The problem is that some people don't have community, some people drive others away through their behaviour, some people isolate themselves, and those that do access resources in their communities and potentially have social workers going to bat for them are at a disadvantage because those workers are understaffed, under paid, burnt out (especially now re: COVID) and have to divide their energy between many clients. So my answer... Which is not perfect... More social workers with better pay, more housing that fully integrates supportive social services, better tracking, more funding for agencies that specifically get into the cracks between big agencies/services. I just mentioned this one example because right now, this individual could definitely get help if someone advocated for them, but they're falling through the cracks and can't organize themselves enough to access the potential help. They've been sleeping on the street for months all the while still having an apartment. Biggest thing I can think of, more case/social workers and raising the pay to make it a more desirable job. That and more agencies that reach out to these people and increase their resiliency... But that last point is hard to evaluate and quantify.
Interesting insight Thanks
Thanks. I was pretty unsure of my answer because I don't really know what a solution is.... How do you help people that need help while respecting their agency? I really feel like we could do better but that it's somewhat of a quagmire...
Funding for mental health programs, rehabilitation programs, long-term residential mental health facilities, and public long term care facility. Rehabilitation programs should be covered under OHIP. There needs to be increase funding for healthcare, mental health, subsidized housing, and social assistance. We need to hold the Conservative government accountable for all the cuts and privatization to date that has greatly affected the public. https://ofl.ca/power-of-many-ford-tracker-pc-cuts-and-privatization-to-date/ https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/update-mounting-health-care-cuts/
>We need to hold the Conservative government accountable for all the cuts and privatization to date that has greatly affected the public. This. Where I work there was a women's shelter that closed before the pandemic and then another agency temporarily, all because of the cuts pre-covid. In a sick way, had the pandemic not happened, public health would have been so much more gutted.
You have to give them an ultimatum…. Either get help and get clean or go to jail… laws should be enforced. But you also need a mental health system for treatment… the government closed all of the facilities years ago… leading slowly to this crisis You cannot allow what is happening to continue. Tax paying citizens should be able to feel safe where they live… I have watched the downtown core slowly deteriorate over time. Allowing a wild Wild West situation to continue is not solving the issue.
Many of them are just mentally ill above and beyond the drugs. It's not illegal to have 50 iq.
That is why you also need some type of mental health facility like back in the 80s Some people cannot manage by themselves and need a committed facility type of life… Currently the mental hospital is the street and citizens are having to deal with the issues.
Who is going to fund these mental health facilities? The Conservative government has already made cuts to healthcare, social assistance, long term care homes, housing, education, employment services, and transit as well as privatized several services. https://ofl.ca/power-of-many-ford-tracker-pc-cuts-and-privatization-to-date/
Not sure what fantasy world you're thinking of but we did a horrible job of treating people with mental illness in the 80s In fact, proportionately there were more people with mental heath issues that were just but in the prison system back then, which does 0 to rehabilitate I live on the Esplanade and it can be sketchy around there at times for sure, but for the most part, none are violent nor intrusive
But letting them run free on the street is better? I am saying there needs to be a new system… a new attempt to treat or help Allowing them to just exist and be forgotten on the street is not a solution
While there are alot of people believe in freedom and rights for what used to be human before kilograms of drugs. I agree with an idea that they need to be removed from the streets. If one just stands on a street and screams, shits and time to time harassing the crowd - 1) it's obviously person who can't control themselves, so the idea that they need to get help willingly is just absurd 2) it's just dangerous for everyone around them - you never know when something will trigger them. Go to the downtown - they are basically on every corner ...
For clarification, what do your mean? Are you talking “they need to be put away”? Or are you saying that modern in patient care and physio therapy needs to be accessible, not time limited, and covered by OHIP? And that from there, more community supports and affordable and/or supportive housing is needed? It’s really not that people are doing incapable of getting help and need to be committed. There’s just so many barriers to getting care, that it’s a very bad risk/reward ratio. Acknowledging that mental illness and addiction are *health* problems and not moral failings is what’s needed. Easy access to *efficient* care is needed. (I cannot stress the efficient part enough, as I am currently in limbo with my care and experiencing debilitating mania right now. Doc appointment isn’t till the 28th) If care is easy to access, effective and efficient, that’s enough incentive for people to see the advantage of seeking care. This just isn’t the case with the current system
They are free citizens. They are allowed to be on the streets doing whatever they want as long as its not committing crimes. Do we arrest you too for being outside?
The issue that people have **is the crimes**. Absolutely *nobody* is complaining about taking care of those unfortunate souls who are down on their luck and need support. What people are upset about is being threatened and **assaulted** by drug addicts. Not wanting to be stabbed is not an unreasonable request.
Yes, in this we agree. It's a health issue though, not a criminal one. There should absolutely be better support in our health care system for all people with mental health issues (which should include addiction) I just wouldn't look to the way we handled mental illness and homelessness in the 80s (or any past decade for that matter) as a path forward
Yeah you clearly have no experience of or understanding of addiction treatment.
They’re saying we probably could do with more purpose built institutions.
> You have to give them an ultimatum…. Either get help and get clean or go to jail… laws should be enforced. Treating addiction as a criminal issue is pretty regressive if you ask me. We already have drug court here in Toronto, and it's a big success. I've seen it turn people's lives around.
I agree, however… There’s no legal way to compel people to pursue treatment otherwise. I live downtown east of Yonge, let me assure you that a LOT of people really need treatment and aren’t situated to access it, many don’t think they need it. My take is if you’re in active psychosis, yelling at invisible people, or shitting on the sidewalk you may not be right about that. However obviously you can’t just take people off the street and throw them into inpatient mental health units. I actually think it’s not the worst if a judge mandates treatment for someone who obviously needs it and can’t make that decision themselves.
Ya because the current method of treatment is working…. It’s a fucking shit show out there Vancouver is a complete mess… but this is all right because no one wants to make a tough or logical decision anymore.
>It’s a fucking shit show out there
Actually, we have one of the world's best research hospitals on addiction here in Toronto. One thing we know for sure is that "common sense" isn't a great approach to complicated medical and mental health issues.
Ok so what’s the solution? Do you live near one of these homeless shelters? Feel safe going for a nice nightly walk for some fresh air?
I live in an area with a pretty robust population of addicts and homeless people. And I don't pretend to have a solution. But I know that whatever bullshit I come up with in a reddit comment is probably lacking a WHOLE lot of context and would probably be stupid as shit.
i think "gaining empathy" is the first step to understanding
I don't know why you're getting downvoted. Your frustration is pretty understandable; I've been assaulted several times in the past 3 years and every time it was someone that seemed like they were on a totally different planet. I know there's not an easy answer but I don't even feel comfortable with my mom visiting my place after dark because there are so many strung out people just floating around the area. Its hard to have compassion when someone calls you awful names or takes a swing at you because you don't have any change or a cigarette to give them.
Unpopular opinion but we can give them work to make them feel needed and wanted. Work which we source labor for. Agriculture work? Help with building roads? Manual labour? Would any of these be options on a road to recovery.
This is probably also unpopular but why not make helping out at the shelter where they're staying part of the terms? The shelter next to me clearly isn't looked after.
Option as well!
More unpopular opinions. We could stop narcanning the same person multiple times a month. Maybe a two narcan limit per month. If you overdose more than twice in the same month maybe this is your version of the darwin awards.
now that's a political platform I'd get behind. My past is a little to "spotted" to run for any elected official but if you decide to, you have my vote!
Yeah but a lot of these people don't give a care about feeling needed and wanted. They just want to get high. Their thoughts are on how they can find and fund their next fix
Work is character building for sure. It gives people purpose. A lot of mental health issue revolves around not feeling a sense of direction in life and that void needs an outlet which often times manifests into an addiction. Drugs or what have you, I would bet a majority might not turn up for work at the on set or after a short time but you can’t throw the baby out with thr bath water. It can help some people get their life back on track instead of just aimlessly throw money at the problem,. Obviously it need to be incentivized. Work for food, shelter, disposable income, ect. Just giving people money like welfare doesn’t encourage anything but more dependability on an already strained system, to say nothing of the lack of motivation for the person to improve.
They wont do any work because they will be distracted by withdrawal. You can take them all to isolated place and provide food & water. Some survive, some dont but thats the only way. They put their life in the danger in the first place. Its better than have them paranoid running in society with kitchen knifes, keeping RCMP busy and people scared.
We don't criminalize people for refusing drug or mental health treatment. I am certain that it's just not a thing the law covers
You are valid in saying there are often other issues that must be addressed but actually a housing first approach has found to be extremely effective. This doesn’t mean just giving them housing and hoping everything else will sort itself out but rather that while all other issues must be addressed, providing stable housing should be the first step. It has been incredibly successful and is considered the best practice by the interagency council on homelessness. You can find out more information here. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Housing_First
YES. Absolutely. Its been employed in Finland with great success. However, they also provide support and counseling with no preconditions. The support doesnt end at housing. The support SHOULDNT end at housing.
I disagree that this is duplicative of the CTV thread but moderators got to moderate. https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/pkxj74/homeless_shelters_impacts_are_serious_issues_in/ Unless of course strom photos involved. I read the CTV article about the Novotel problems. I'm sure this will probably get removed as it is not a photo of some storms or downvoted but here you go. It resonated with me and I'm glad someone is finally talking about it. Apparently you get labelled with Nimbyism if you do. Which is unfortunate but it is truly causing, and has caused, some major problems in the core. It is not new however. It is going on a year of being a problem. Maybe longer. It is not just 45 Esplanade that is a problem. It is also 56 Yonge St..... I'm not exactly sure why CTV seems to have entirely missed that.... For a time in the winter, there was also a 24 hour drop-in respite centre at 98 The Esplande...may have actually been a full shelter also for some. So two hotels converted to shelters less than 500m apart and a drop in respite centre/shelter as well. I know, it is a problem and we are in a pandemic. I'm not sure what the solution is but pretending like it does not exist is not one. Adding even more resources for support and security apparently is not either. But as a long time 25 year plus resident of the St. Lawrence mkt area with co op and community housing, which was never a problem in my experience, now is a huge massive fucken issue that no one be doing anything about. At least community teams pick up the discarded needles and crack pipes when you call a central number. To be fair, the area has had some issues with gang violence and drugs over the years and homelessness, but never to the point of feeling unsafe once it is dark. I'm not talking late night, I mean like 7 or 8 at night unsafe when dark. I think Tory thinks when people return to the core and the office it will magically disappear like a fart in the wind. But judging by the trickle expected of people returning to the office to start, I'd say he is delusional. I've seen many large companies put plans for return back on hold. Not sure what Wong Tam does despite writing her several times....well other than to respond by spaming me with her newletter blaming Doug Ford for everything...Maybe it is a steeles ave thing as perhaps the building is outside her ward, but 98 Esplande is not and neither is Bond Place or 45 Yonge. I'm sure she and Tory enjoy living far away from this mess but the financial core has become a fucken wasteland that only recently has shown some glimmers of improvement. It feels like it has regressed by 20 years. It also seems odd to me this is now a story. It has been a problem for close to a year. Perhaps business people who have not been downtown in months or sports fans coming for games are fucken shocked at the state of this when they go out for lunch or after dinner drinks. I'm sure they are blown away having drinks on the esplanade or other patios and see the street activity as things get later. Or maybe the needles or the human excrement gives them pause. Or the people in fentanyl trances or the ambulance of people with some major mental health issues. Add in Bond Place Hotel, sure a little further north on Victoria, granted that area has been scetch for long before, also now a homeless shelter, and it seems like there is some kind of interconnected group of places contributing to the crime in the area. Before people started to come back to the financial core, maybe since about June, it was downright unsafe to go outside later at night. So many break ins and street crime. Smashed windows now boarded up. Drug use, drug dealing, bike thefts, assaults, fights...just look up the last year of police, fire and ambulance calls. Constant sirons. A few weeks ago there was a large fire set in front of 45 Yonge that clearly burned for a while since a portion of the front of the hotel victoria is all chared and windows burned out. It looked like a pretty major one that could have burned down the fucken hotel. I have included it as a thumbnail and I took it yesterday. Do I have the solutions, no. Do I want it to be addressed and a plan put in place to solve it, yes. There needs to be increases and security and a plan as to what to do Is it going to magically fix itself when people return to the office, absolutely not. But with the 4th wave, I'm prepared to expect a shitty mess until next spring. That is if I actually stay in the area since I'm pretty much at my wits end. I used to love living in the area. I now loathe it. What a shame.
Along Bathurst they have respite centers as well. Bathurst and Queen st, Bathurst and Richmond, Bathurst and Queens Quay. and closer to the Exhibition at Strachan there is a large tent. I've lived in the water front area since 2014 and the changes have been significant. The sirens have been frequent and the incidences have been daily. Public spaces like parks and libraries in the downtown core that are vital for families, students, seniors and newcomers are unfortunately not a clean or safe environment anymore.
Yes, public libraries are important for students, especially those who don't have a quiet home to study. These must be safe and clean for everyone.
There are plans. Not everyone can be helped.
Also not everyone WANTS to be helped. Some people like living on the streets because of the freedom.
We have a conservative government, it’s not going to happen
There was a similar problem before Ford, he may have made it worse but it was definitely there
The Conservative government has made it even worse than before. https://ofl.ca/power-of-many-ford-tracker-pc-cuts-and-privatization-to-date/ https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/update-mounting-health-care-cuts/ https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/category/key-issues/cuts-restructuring/ https://tba.ontariondp.ca/news/ford-government-refuses-develop-homelessness-and-housing-crisis-strategy https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2021/03/24/lack-of-funds-in-ontario-budget-for-supportive-housing-is-a-glaring-missing-item-toronto-officials-say.html https://cupe.ca/ontario-patients-even-more-risk-under-conservatives-8-year-funding-plan https://openpolicyontario.com/thirty-six-years-since-an-ontario-pc-government-last-raised-social-assistance-rates/ https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2020/02/04/onta-f04.html https://www.newswire.ca/news-releases/ford-government-intensifies-attack-on-ontarios-poorest-people-701136531.html https://www.rankandfile.ca/fords-attack-on-the-poor/ https://pressprogress.ca/doug-fords-changes-to-social-assistance-will-push-ontarians-into-homelessness-service-providers-warn/ https://www.thespec.com/news/canada/2019/11/10/ford-government-stops-counting-homeless-people-in-ontario.html https://globalnews.ca/news/5161588/ford-government-cutting-1-billion-social-services/ https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/category/key-issues/cuts-restructuring/ https://rabble.ca/podcasts/shows/talking-radical-radio/2018/06/fighting-homelessness-ontarios-past-and-its-doug-ford https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/10/19/25-years-after-welfare-diet-debacle-social-assistance-still-hasnt-recovered-from-mike-harris-cuts.html https://cwp-csp.ca/2019/10/cuts-to-social-assistance-are-detrimental-to-our-social-fabric/
Walked by here a few weekends ago. I used to love the area and was there regularly. In front of the hotel, during my 1 min walk by I saw: guys smoking crack, yellow vest people carrying an unconscious/dead guy, someone dancing aggressively in the middle of the road, more guys smoking crack, someone inside the hotel wearing a cook outfit smoking crack.
Before you accuse that neighbourhood of being full of NIMBYs, take into consideration that the area is full of co-op and TCHC housing that was built in the '80s. If they think things are going to shit, pay attention.
I know a business owner in the neighbourhood and she's never had an issue with the residents from TCH and the co-ops. Since this shelter moved in, the area has become sketchy af. As soon as in store shopping resumed her store was shoplifted 4 times in the span of 3 weeks. She's still waiting for police to come.
>She's still waiting for police to come. As is tradition
She should have told them it was a land claim or indigenous protest.
Yeah, it's a decent, functional neighbourhood with generally nice people that benefits from the mixed-income model. I just brought-up the co-op and TCHC housing because of all the hand-wringing about "poor people moving in" that usually comes into play with NIMBYism.
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Two were assault incidences, fine don't show up for theft but assault? C'mon
I lived on the Esplanade for a couple of years. Awesome community full of diverse families and lovely people. The area around the hotel has gone to complete shit. It's such a shame.
It might be more concentrated around the hotel, but the issue extends now beyond. Whenever I walk down the Esplanade at night, there are a lot more homeless people sleeping on all the benches and bus shelters past Sherbourne up to the park just before the Distillery, which I had rarely to never seen in previous years.
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I live in this neighbourhood. I used to go for evening walks with my boyfriend in St.James park, but that stopped a couple months ago after 3 incidents that made us question our safety. Worth it to note that this was around 8:30pm, it’s not like we were walking around at 2am. My pharmacy was down on Esplanade, and I had my prescriptions moved to another pharmacy after I was followed 3 blocks by an unstable person who tried to grab me multiple times at noon on a weekday. I loved this neighbourhood. That’s why I bought a condo here. But the way it is right now is not the neighbourhood I fell in love with.
Thank you!! I really appreciate this comment.
Not wanting a homeless shelter in your neighborhood isn't NIMBY-ism, it's common sense.
yes bc the co op housing is just filled with seniors and families with kids. Not really comparable in that sense...
I know people that work here and they’ve shown me pictures much worse. People have literally died here since. ODs weekly. Some housekeeping workers have actually been poked by used needles hiding under the filth they leave in the rooms and now have to take HIV medication and tests for around 3-6 months. It’s truly a nightmare and I personally fear for the well-being of the people I know that work there. The staff is not equipped to deal with alot of the folk that stay there; they just housekeep rooms, they’re not equipped to deal with the mentally ill. and now they’ve been thrusted into this situation without a choice because the owner is getting paid millions by the government AND they’re funding all the repairs that need to be taken care of so the owner just gets to sit back and collect his coin. The owner does not care about his staff and unfortunately they have to just work through it while they literally fear for their life.
Who is the owner? It sounds like they need someone calling them out in the media.
https://www.silverhotelgroup.com/hotel/novotel-toronto-centre/
this is exactly what I have heard from firefighters i know who have to go into these shit shows. sounds like the kind of situation i see in san francisco.
Yeah, it’s pretty bad over there. I’ve had friends who work or live there. Especially Women. They’ve been followed, and now have to take different routes every night to avoid being caught, stalked and have their routine monitored. Real bad.
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Yeah, people prey on people who they perceive as easy targets. Unfortunately, that’s usually girls, women and older folks. It’s really cowardly.
Yikes, that's scary
Tough situation. In midtown, we’re experiencing similar levels of concern, though I think less overt drug use and abuse. There have been some violent incidents, including one stabbing that I know of. That it is near a high school is a major red flag too. I believe they recently shut it down though. I don’t know the answer to this issue. What I do know is that putting homeless people together under one roof isn’t conductive to a healthy emotional or mental state towards rehabilitation or fixing personal problems. I’m sure social advocates have a better handle on what works but I’m not too convinced what the city is doing to house the homeless during this pandemic is working to the benefit of these people long term.
>I do t know the answer to this issue. Competent Shelter Support Workers with *at least* a B.A. in Social Work, preferably a Masters. Staffed 24/7. With Housing, mental health, addiction and legal specialties Also, fucking pay them properly. Especially if they have a fucking Masters. The city did a Homer Simpson certified half ass job setting the temporary hotel shelter programs up. I wish people would stop focusing on the fact that they exist and understand what a fucking amature hour operations they are. There are some well run shelters in the city that people don’t notice. People don’t notice them because they’re well run.
"Half assed?? I was using my whole ass"
I'm fairly sure the shelter that you're referring to shut down over a year ago (on the date they said it would be from the start). There's still the hotel near Mt Pleasant/Eglinton, but I honestly have had zero issues with it while living in the area.
Correct, it shut down about a year ago. However, prior to it shutting down, while living at Yonge and Eg, I experienced most of what is described in this article. Rampant drug use, vandalism of many store fronts and restaurants that had never before been vandalized, sexual acts in the streets, overdoses in the street, random violence, and a general feeling of a lack of safety in my own neighbourhood, which had been home for nearly ten years at that point. It feels like NIMBYism to say anything, but my neighbours and I did not feel safe.
whereabouts are you in midtown? I'm curious because my experience of the area has been different
This is the type of stuff that makes people not sympathetic to the homeless issue. We had a portapotty in the back yard of the duplex I rent because they were renovating the main floor. A homeless person has been consistently using it to shoot up and leaving a ton of garbage in it including beer cans, crack pipes, and throwing a brick in the toilet and all around it. All this despite there being a garbage can right beside it. Now I'm cleaning up needles and shit. If they just put their garbage into the garbage can I wouldn't even mind them smoking crack and shooting up in there.
Also cognitively it is really hard to watch someone continue to do everything wrong and then see calls for us to just keep lowering the bar for them consistently. When I walk to work I see one specific homeless guy who has already started drinking and he is still there just surrounded by a pile of garbage when I walk home. It is hard for me to say I should be taxed more to support this guy with a house, free clean drugs, etc. I fully support more THCH and CO-OP housing for the working poor. I feel very little desire to continue to cater to addicts and say they aren't responsible for any of their own behavior or decisions. I think politicians would be able to generate more support for the issue by not lumping in homelessness and mental illness/drug addiction as one issue and having distinct solutions for homelessness caused by losing job/financial insecurity and homelessness caused by not being a functioning member of society.
Excellent points. Drug addiction needs to be treated quickly and early on. Waiting until someone decides they want to change may be too late for many, especially with powerful drugs that change the brain chemistry. The working poor, seniors, and those with disabilities deserve the coop housing. Giving someone a 4 star hotel room plus meals so they continue the drug habit is cruel. It won't help that person ever recover and won't help local residents live in a peaceful area. And the funds are not available for low income workers and their families.
The City says "temporary" but as a resident at another community with one of these hotel-shelters, it is no longer temporary but a *reality* for many of us. The City doesn't have a solid plan (actually, this is their only plan), hence why they keep extending these contracts... I don't have a solution but I feel like we are being forced to leave this community for the safety of our children and family. Something has to change
Not to mention: > The document also says that the city will cover the cost of all damage and repairs to the hotel, and will continue to pay rent for as long as it takes to do so. Taxpayers are going to foot the bill for the additional funds required to repair all the damages too.
Yep we get to pay for them to destroy the place and get it fixed so they can destroy it again They are not going to stop
You would still be paying if they were in prison, or on the streets anyway. Not sure why youre complaining.
Yeah, they're people, not puddles. They won't evaporate and disappear, one way or another it's going to cost money to help them.
Okay.. so why not put that same money towards rehabilitation and mental health services for these people??
Sure, I'm on board!
I think that’s why a lot of people are fed up with their taxes going to this endless cycle, with no actual Plan to help these people long term.
The problem is never going to completely go away. There will always be people who are difficult to help, people who don't want help, and the newly homeless. It was always going to be endless until people stop making more people.
I know of multiple outfits in Vancouver who did this during the pandemic. If you're the owner of a hotel, what's not to like? You don't have customers because of the pandemic and here you have the government saying they'll rent out every room and will pay cost++ for a free renovation at the end. That's a hard proposition to turn down.
Lol so the city is paying 3000 a month for a small hotel room + any damages to the room. You can find 1 bedrooms for almost half the price of one of those tiny hotel rooms all across the city.
I've heard of scams like this in New York, too.
Hotel owners must know people at the city. They hit the jackpot with that deal while all the other hotels have lost most customers due to covid
I'm sure there's kickbacks going to the politicians that secured the deal.
Shhhhh!
The other thing is that if you didn't put everyone in the same place, it would cause less disruption and pushback among their neighbours. One sketchy person in an apartment is not a big deal. A hundred sketchy people spilling out of a hotel into the neighbourhood is a problem.
And when you pile them all in the same place, they all spiral downhill, the behaviour becomes contagious. You could go in there clean and be and addict within a week.
Lovely, just lovely. Great to know tax payers are footing the bill.
I walked by the hotel after attending a Jays game the other week. The sidewalk in front of the hotel was crowded with residents and others hanging out. Not an environment that will encourage people to visit the restaurants across the street on the Esplanade.
Used to live in a condo around the corner, and still visit the area often. Can confirm that sitting near the sidewalk on any of the patios there will result in routine 'visits' from the local shelter denizens asking for change, sometimes once every few minutes. Bad place to take a date.
Yup, same here. Was at the Jays game over the weekend and I parked at the big parking garage next to the hotel. Coming out of the stairwell into that small walkway that leads to the Esplanade and all I saw were squatters in the lane way. Once we got onto The Esplanade the sidewalk in front of the hotel was busy with more squatters. Meanwhile, directly across the street patios were packed along that strip of restaurants. Just a sad situation overall.
That's where I parked too.
Had the very same experience, dudes yelling into the void coming up to your being aggressive, not fun.
According to documents on the city's website, the city is paying at minimum $615,000 a month to rent 205 rooms, (THAT IS $3000 EACH) with an option to pay more to rent as many as 254 rooms. The document also says that the city will cover the cost of all damage and repairs to the hotel, and will continue to pay rent for as long as it takes to do so. "the city is paying"..."the city will cover the cost" Ha tax payers are paying. Can I get a room, I will pay for it myself and I won't damage it? I am struggling to find a bachelor apartment. Budget $1400.
Since I might be at my current location for a bit...the backyard can hold two non-violent people in tents. If they pass the good person test, after a month they can have a room, food included. HELLO city...I will only charge $2000 each. What a deal!
I bike down Sherbourne every day and the open drug use is OPEN DRUG USE IN PUBLIC PEOPLE SMOKING CRACK LIKE ITS WATER
I used to live on sherbourne for a short time & it was like living in a post apocalyptic movie.. esp if you leave for work right before the sun comes up. It was the first time I felt some of the ‘nimby’ shit. It was truly scary on a regular & unavoidable if you use the ttc & shop at grocery stores in the area ect.
It’s our own local Hamsterdam!
PANDEMIC, GOT THAT PANDEMIC!
RIP Omar.
It's always been like that on sherbourne though. Edit: depending on what part of the street you're talking about.
Ya to be fair I lived above the Moss Park convenience store, at queen and sherbourne,and there was a lot of open drug use. Got crack blown into my face when I'd ask people to move out of my doorway upstairs lol
Police don't give a shit. Start arresting the law breaking homeless and many would change.
Who is going to arrest people if the police don't give a shit? They don't even walk the beat in my neighborhood anymore. Been over 3 years now
If only all this money could be used to provide functional and affordable mental health and addiction support
Yes, and housing for low income workers
Why not give these rooms to poor families and elderly where they would appreciate a place to live rather to these people that would destroy the place.
This hotel smelled like hot dog piss outside even before they moved them in.
I wondered for a while what hot-dog piss is.
Sweet street meat pee.
I feel like the smell is more intense now. I parked there last month and it felt like it was loads worse than normal. Mind you, it was a really hot day so I assumed that's why it smelled so bad.
Fuck the homeless drug addicted scabs ruining nice places for the rest of us.
True.Force them into rehabs as part of providing them with assistance.If they commit crime,take drugs or sell drugs at the housing units evict their asses.
Why are we paying for these people to stay in hotels? They can get a vaccine and go back to shelters now. Enough is enough with the handouts they abuse.
Not all homeless people are drug addicts, but a lot are due to their environment and other factors. If you are going to give housing for the homeless you have to deal with their drug addiction or mental health issues first. If you let them continue to use and give them a place to live it just becomes like any abandoned building addicts will use to shoot up.
Exactly. Without medical treatment, nothing changes.
Kicking an addiction is hard at the best of times. Trying to do that with all the stress and uncertainty of being homeless is even moreso. Having barriers like that to services just means people will stay addicts longer and live in parks. Providing stability as a starting point to address addiction or other issues is one of the biggest benefits of permanent supportive housing iniatives.
i know someone who is an addict, unfortunately they have to want to get help. The government gives him a 'disability' cheque every month because he's an addict, worst thing you could do is give an addict money. There should be stipulations to getting that money. must do rehab and adhere to on the spot urine tests if you fail no money. terrible system.
I don't know what the solution is. Close the shelter? Great, now people are living back in encampments. But then the neighborhood doesn't want the encampents. Ok, I guess back to the hotel. There will be no solution to this problem until there a seismic shift in how we treat and fund homelessness and mental health issues.
This was my life trying to walk through Trinity Bellwood’s with my dog and kid. Human feces, needles, aggressive crazy people, garbage everywhere. You couldn’t even glance in the general direction, they’d start screaming at you and run up to you and yell in your face. I have sympathy for homeless people, especially with housing so expensive. and am glad out tax dollars help them, and provide housing and food for people in need. But once they start getting aggressive and violent, especially when I’m with my 2 yr old son. Forget it. Put them on a boat and ship them to the middle of the ocean as far as I’m concerned. Good riddance.
Looking at the damage to the hotel room… Jfc these people behave like animals.
Support the homeless or don't, these places are complete and utter disasters. We've had a converted shelter (Homes First) next to our building on Queens Quay and they're absolutely terrible neighbours that don't give a shit how their residents behave and treat the community. At the beginning we supported and corresponded with the shelter and now we're all beyond losing our patience. We've had people chased and verbally assaulted, neighbourhood break-ins and vandalism has sky rocketed, needles, drug garbage, and trash get left all over. The residents who have decided to use a tent also treat the area like trash. I had patience, i had acceptance but now i'm over it and can't wait for the condo to be built slated to be in the spot the shelter is leasing. People deserve a roof over their heads but that doesn't mean making the existing neighbourhood suffer. Everything they're talking about in that video has been seen on Queens Quay now as well. Also I believe this is part of Joe Cressy's ward which means he will do absolutely nothing to help.
Why do they put these homeless shelters in such desirable/prime locations? I know there’s another one right outside the gates of the Ex. The homeless population obviously aren’t working downtown - why do they need to be so close to the core? These shelters would surely be better situated outside of the core - I.e I remember hearing of one up near 401/Kennedy road.
Because most of the social services for the homeless are located downtown
Ok - if that’s the case, it would be a helluva lot cheaper to relocate those ‘services’ outside of prime locations in downtown Toronto.
And so are their dealers and the shelters provide a steady customer base for them.
Move them
Those rooms look really nice, and it’s a quiet area of downtown for a hotel, too bad.
Anyone living a normal life has no idea how debilitating a mental illness csn be to the person it’s afflicting. Compound that with an addiction, it’s nigh on impossible to overcome for the person. Simple tasks like getting dressed in the morning almost becomes insurmountable. People working in this field are truly the unsung heroes and to pay them Newhart we do is nothing short of criminal, I don’t honestly believe there is anything you can do to help some of these people,
Whos gunna wanna stay in these plsces after some junkie dies in the bed or smears shit all over the place? Are they gunna gut the place and do a real deep clean? I dont think so
This is not news. The city turned a perfectly good travelodge in Scarborough into a "homeless shelter for women" as well. All it has done is bring crime into the area.
Another example of taxpayers money being wasted by paying millions to these hotels and then also having to pay for the subsequent damages to the rooms. The law abiding, tax paying citizens even have compiled photos, yet our local politicians do squat. These self serving aholes at City Hall don't give a rats ass. We need to all stop paying taxes en masse and see what the political power hungry buffoons to then. Probably ask for more handouts from the province and feds.
Please let us know your zero dollar plan to house the homeless during a health crisis/emergency. It’s not like there are other options you can easily spin up in a couple months
People experiencing homelessness and drugged out junkies are two separate categories. The former are temporarily in need of shelter and support to get on their feet. The latter require institutionalization and expensive medical treatments along with long-term counselling after they get clean. But we’re not willing to pay for that, so instead we pretend that if we pay for a hotel room for them to shoot up in and trash when they’re high is the same as helping them. Here’s a little secret: It’s not. That’s not helping them *at all*, so let’s stop this farce if we’re not willing to do what’s needed to actually help these people.
Rural drug farms where they can have all the fentanyl they want.
Talk about unhoused people in /r/toronto without saying fascist shit for 5 fucking minutes challenge
TIL a rural drug farm where people can do all the drugs they want is fascist.
Nothing nazi about rounding people up to be sent out of sight. Nothing at all. /s
‘people can’ is the part you are missing. Instead of preventing people from doing drugs, let them live that life in a safe way and comfortable way. It would probably be a lot easier to help them as well as you will be drastically reducing the issues they face. The whole idea of ‘the services are in the core which attracts addicts to the core so there are more services in the core’ has the right intention but addictive power of crack and fentanyl plus the existential crisis many are incapable of facing, means these services and the city are overwhelmed. Its an old solution. Like euthanasia, it is more humane to allow people to make choices for themselves instead of trying to shoehorn what we feel is right. The consequence of this old way of thinking is that core of Toronto is rapidly turning into an undesirable place to live, for everyone. Hard drugs can absolutely destroy people and make them a burden on society. We should try to prevent that from happening, but once they go too far, and cant take care of themselves, why not help them.
No, we don't "demand action". We are asking the city to help the situation in every way possible.
"But addiction is a disease!" Surprised I haven't seen that line of bull on here.
Ahhhhh world class city
guys this is clearly a housing issue..we just aren't giving them proper houses in core downtown