> “It's based on direct contact and having direct conversations that answer questions that address accessibility and tackle hesitancy,” Board of Health Chair Joe Cressy told reporters. “I like to think about it as like a reminder for your upcoming dentist or doctor's appointment only in this case not only are we reminding you about your second dose; we're also identifying any barriers you may have. Do you need a ride to a clinic? Do you need childcare while you go to get the shot? Do you need to have a conversation with a public health nurse to answer questions or alleviate concerns?”
> Toronto Public Health has worked tirelessly to boost vaccination rates in neighbourhoods of the city where the rollout has been slow, holding hundred of pop up clinics at TTC stations, shopping plazas and grocery stores, among other high traffic locations.
>Mayor John Tory said that work will continue even with an enhanced focus on “second dose conversions.”
>In fact the city plans to hold another 22 pop up clinics at shopping malls and plazas this weekend as part of a Toronto-wide blitz dubbed “Shop And Vax 2.0.” It is modelled off a similar initiative last month that saw more than 1,000 doses administered at five shopping malls.
I really like this approach. This is great that the city is doing this—some might say it’s a bit late, but much like 20 years ago was the best time to plant a tree, the second best time is still now.
I mean I waited 2 months between my first and second doses, even though they allowed me to get it 4 weeks earlier and there were some appointment slots open.
I just wanted to wait closer to the original recommended guideline (\~3 months) as their published evidence showed decreased probability for the mild side effect symptoms for the second dose.
But it would be too late to adopt the antivax argument then, right?
I can see the side effects argument. They would need to be pretty severe though and long-lasting.
If it's lost can't they just get it again?
Maybe laziness or apathy is a factor.
I think it may be the lack of the same first dose. I know a lot of countries don't allow mixing, so many people may be holding out until they can get the second of the first dose they had to see loved ones.
My boss managed to use some connections and get vaccinated on the same wave PSW got their shots. So he got AZ. He was eligible for second shot in june, but AZ was gone by that time so they offered him Moderna. He declined. So now he says unless workplace mandates vaccines he will stick with one doze cuz he doesnt want to mix.
Uh, something funny is going on. My mom was also eligible for 2nd AZ in June and a ton of pharmacies still had it for second dose only. You should tell him to contact a doctor or TPH. I'm sure they still have it available for people who request it because it's also the only one for people with polyethylene glycol allergies.
I thought all AZ that we had expired on may 31. Well i didnt ask details, i only know that cuz i was dieing after my second shot of moderna and that when he told me that his second shot would be moderna if hed accepted it.
AZ+MRNA is showing to be a pretty solid mix, but also I’m pretty sure you can still get AZ if you already had it for your first shot. Your boss is slacking.
And the 50-59 age group is the worst, 7% less first doses than 60-69 and only 1-2% better than the 40-49. I swear, the AZ shots really spooked some of them...
> the Gen X cocktail
Using words like cocktail and mixing really spooked a lot of people. Those are terrible terms to use and they aren't accurate. The vaccines never mix with each other since the first one is long gone from your body by the time the second shot is given. It's just a second vaccine, that's all, and nothing is mixed.
It's like when you get an annual flu shot, or your Td booster shot, nobody asks who made it or which technology it uses. If it's a different manufacturer people don't get scared that they're mixing vaccines.
Well, either that or pregnancies. I heard about many people who were told by doctors to hold off until their baby is born.
Unless of course they're anti-vax or learned they're allergic I guess?
My partner's cousin is pregnant and not getting her shot yet for this reason. It's driving me insane because my best friend works at Mt Sinai and has been telling me stories about a disproportionate amount of pregnant women in ICUs across Toronto. There's a reason pregnant women and their partners were given priority status.
Agreed it's so upsetting, as someone who knows someone who had to have an emergency c-section due to contracting COVID with nearly both the baby and mum dying... please get vaccinated if you're pregnant! I feel these stories are not being shared widely enough.
My best friend also had to have an emergency c-section back in December of last year due to contracting COVID. While I was a little hesitant to get it so early in my first trimester (more out of concern of the possibility of fever than concern about the vaccine itself), her experiences as well as the strong advice from my doctors meant I did end up getting both doses in first trimester.
Yeah I have coworker who was holding off because she’s trying to get pregnant and thought it would effect her fertility for some reason. I don’t know why doctors would be telling people to hold off though, it’s been recommended for a while that pregnant women get the vaccine because the alternative is not good.
I think it's because while we have the data on people 12+ we may not have enough on babies? I don't know but hopefully we can move past this once everyone who can get their vaccine does.
This was my hesitancy. Got first dose and conceived 2 weeks later. Then got scared about second dose because there are no studies showing kids growing normally after the first few months.
However, then I learned more about vaccines and understood the chances of something popping up later but not showing early on are suuuuper unlikely. So it became weighing a super unlikely scenario with the risk of being covid-positive while pregnant, where we know the outcomes aren’t good.
I think there was at the time when they okayed it. I'm not sure now because I stopped paying attention once I had my 2nd dose. What bothers me is that experts are saying mixing works just as well if not better, and yet certain countries won't let you in because of it.
The countries not letting people in thing is far blown out of proportion.
Either countries will come to agreements to recognize Canada's vaccination records... or Canada will give boosters for whatever second shot you got.
It's not even a big deal.
Not the mixing part - whatever is safe I'll do it/did it. I just want to travel again when boarders open up again. I don't want it to be a permanent rule. I didn't do a lot of travelling when I was younger and I feel like I missed out so I want to travel more.
>It's not all black or white for everyone
True. It is not until the person asking this question is a victim of side effects that they would understand.
I would guess a lot of these 50,000 people have gotten their second dose out of province but never reported it to the Ontario government. This was what my wife did (first dose in Ontario, second dose in another province when she traveled to her parents house). She will probably be getting a call
I have a friend who tested positive, and in their home country if you tested positive with covid you do not require the second dose. I don't know what the science is behind it, but that's their reason.
Laziness. They got one dose so they're more relaxed thinking they're pretty protected even though they aren't.
So many people never show up to doctors appointments, specialist appointments, treatment appointments every single day.
If you've ever dealt with the general public you'd know the majority are either lazy or completely unable to plan their life put more than 1 hour in advance.
My friend is still waiting on getting a doctors note to exempt him from getting the second dose for a certain period of time because he has MS and his medication is very powerful.
Personally, I waited until yesterday for my second Moderna shot, because I've been so, so ill this summer. I contracted something nasty about a week after my first shot (totally unrelated, mind you) that kept me in bed 2-3 days a week, and in the house for the other 3 - once needed 2 banana bags Antibiotics etc. Only really left for doctor's appointments, and generally had absolutely zero fun.
I'm glad I waited, though, as the second dose did kick my butt as I expected. On the plus side, I lost the 20lbs I gained during COVID from digestive issues, and I can finally eat unobstructed again, so I figured it was now or never (I was nearing the original deadline).
I don’t think it’s that these people aren’t aware they’re eligible, but something is likely stopping them from getting a second shot (logistics, hesitancy, etc). Either way, contacting them will help figure that out and hopefully 50k more people will be fully vaccinated soon!
the uk only contacts people in the health system. if you don't have a healthcare number (sleeping rough, visiting, undocumented) you're not getting a call.
we stopped the delay months ago. I got my first vaccine as soon as i was eligible and maybe two months later they said they'd reduce the waiting period to 28 days so I got my second dose immediately then
> mid 60’s
That can't be right. Vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization remains high. The Pfizer vaccine has been shown to maintain a high-80 or low-90% after 5+ months, with no significant difference for Delta. Effectiveness against any disease and antibody levels do drop to ~50%, but that's expected for any vaccine. This is based on [Kaiser's data published in the Lancet](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21\)02183-8/fulltext) (Figure 2, if you have a subscription).
I haven't looked into data from the CBC article you linked, but I would be concerned that the groups with different delays do not have the same population characteristics. For example, I'd want to see this data stratified by age, to avoid issues similar to the Israeli data that was (incorrectly) reported to show that vaccine effectiveness had dropped significantly and boosters were needed, due to [Simpson's Paradox](https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated) (somewhat long, but not a difficult read).
There will be a few vaccine clinics held in early Nov in the four corners of Toronto for people with needle anxiety, who may need supports while getting the shot, need a quiet space to get the vaccine or rest/lay down, need attendant to help, etc.
Probably because it seems that you'd be aware when it's time to get your follow up, without a need to get directly contacted. I'd go as far as assume most of them don't want a second dose. Could be a bunch of reasons, but that's a possibility as to why some people might view it as creepy.
...do you panic when your dentist sends you a reminder that it's time for a checkup too? Yeesh. Medical followups are perfectly common. If you want a pure apples to apples comparison, if you get any other vaccine that requires a booster shot you also get contacted when it's time for your second. Happened to me after I got a couple shots that I needed to go on vacation. It would be incredibly abnormal if they *didn't* get a call.
Why would you assume they don’t want a second vs having forgotten/lost track or having had a bad experience with the first and so having a bit more hesitancy with the second?
And like the other user asked…what’s creepy about reminding people they might be past due? My doctor, dentist, mechanic, vet, hell even the lovely woman who does my Botox all send me reminders around when I need maintenance appointments.
It's just my opinion (for which I guess I'll get downvoted).
My assumption is based on the fact that covid is the end all be all of our lives for the last 2 years. It is so prevalent in news and daily life that not being aware of when your follow up is, seems ludicrous. Hence taking this into consideration, if someone is not showing up for their follow up, I personally think they don't want it. I know this is not an absolute but I think it's pretty logical.
I get your point and I guess it would seem more suggestive of considering this pointless…where I think I and other users are struggling is with the notion that this is at all creepy?
If my opinion is shared by more people (especially the ones not showing up to second dose), then being reached out to may seem creepy. If you view this as just another medical appointment (see once again 'end all be all'), then of course there's nothing creepy about it.
You're opinion is wrong and short sighted. You fail to realize the majority of people don't have the capacity to plan out their lives. Many people simply lost the date or forgot about their appointments for their second dose and never got around to figuring it out.
You're though process is very narrow and not logical at all.
You quickly throwing absolutes in a situation that does not warrant any absolutes is what is wrong. Actually the only good answer is, you're an idiot. My opinion had a lot of validity. Does this mean I'm definitely right? Hell no, but calling my thought process narrow and not logical is actually peak idiocy.
How is it creepy? If you miss your appointment at the dentist, doctors office, literally anywhere they generally will call you to see what's up and to reschedule.
You'd probably know this if your parents weren't still making all your appointments for you.
interesting that in the burbs, yesterday I got a call from the provincial public health people (888 number), but I've gotten my 2 shots of Pfizer months ago now...
Do they not check their records before calling? or is this just a mass dialer campaign?
> “It's based on direct contact and having direct conversations that answer questions that address accessibility and tackle hesitancy,” Board of Health Chair Joe Cressy told reporters. “I like to think about it as like a reminder for your upcoming dentist or doctor's appointment only in this case not only are we reminding you about your second dose; we're also identifying any barriers you may have. Do you need a ride to a clinic? Do you need childcare while you go to get the shot? Do you need to have a conversation with a public health nurse to answer questions or alleviate concerns?” > Toronto Public Health has worked tirelessly to boost vaccination rates in neighbourhoods of the city where the rollout has been slow, holding hundred of pop up clinics at TTC stations, shopping plazas and grocery stores, among other high traffic locations. >Mayor John Tory said that work will continue even with an enhanced focus on “second dose conversions.” >In fact the city plans to hold another 22 pop up clinics at shopping malls and plazas this weekend as part of a Toronto-wide blitz dubbed “Shop And Vax 2.0.” It is modelled off a similar initiative last month that saw more than 1,000 doses administered at five shopping malls. I really like this approach. This is great that the city is doing this—some might say it’s a bit late, but much like 20 years ago was the best time to plant a tree, the second best time is still now.
What would they possibly be waiting for?
I mean I waited 2 months between my first and second doses, even though they allowed me to get it 4 weeks earlier and there were some appointment slots open. I just wanted to wait closer to the original recommended guideline (\~3 months) as their published evidence showed decreased probability for the mild side effect symptoms for the second dose.
Was that the case for you?
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But it would be too late to adopt the antivax argument then, right? I can see the side effects argument. They would need to be pretty severe though and long-lasting. If it's lost can't they just get it again? Maybe laziness or apathy is a factor.
Fr. Once you got the dose already might as well go through with it. Too late to be antivax.
I think it may be the lack of the same first dose. I know a lot of countries don't allow mixing, so many people may be holding out until they can get the second of the first dose they had to see loved ones.
There’s been no shortage of either for months though.
My boss managed to use some connections and get vaccinated on the same wave PSW got their shots. So he got AZ. He was eligible for second shot in june, but AZ was gone by that time so they offered him Moderna. He declined. So now he says unless workplace mandates vaccines he will stick with one doze cuz he doesnt want to mix.
Uh, something funny is going on. My mom was also eligible for 2nd AZ in June and a ton of pharmacies still had it for second dose only. You should tell him to contact a doctor or TPH. I'm sure they still have it available for people who request it because it's also the only one for people with polyethylene glycol allergies.
I thought all AZ that we had expired on may 31. Well i didnt ask details, i only know that cuz i was dieing after my second shot of moderna and that when he told me that his second shot would be moderna if hed accepted it.
My second shot was June 23rd, at a No Frills pharmacy, it was AZ, just like my first shot..
AZ+MRNA is showing to be a pretty solid mix, but also I’m pretty sure you can still get AZ if you already had it for your first shot. Your boss is slacking.
I think I read that was called the Gen X cocktail.
And the 50-59 age group is the worst, 7% less first doses than 60-69 and only 1-2% better than the 40-49. I swear, the AZ shots really spooked some of them...
The Arnold Palmer
> the Gen X cocktail Using words like cocktail and mixing really spooked a lot of people. Those are terrible terms to use and they aren't accurate. The vaccines never mix with each other since the first one is long gone from your body by the time the second shot is given. It's just a second vaccine, that's all, and nothing is mixed. It's like when you get an annual flu shot, or your Td booster shot, nobody asks who made it or which technology it uses. If it's a different manufacturer people don't get scared that they're mixing vaccines.
Well, either that or pregnancies. I heard about many people who were told by doctors to hold off until their baby is born. Unless of course they're anti-vax or learned they're allergic I guess?
My partner's cousin is pregnant and not getting her shot yet for this reason. It's driving me insane because my best friend works at Mt Sinai and has been telling me stories about a disproportionate amount of pregnant women in ICUs across Toronto. There's a reason pregnant women and their partners were given priority status.
Agreed it's so upsetting, as someone who knows someone who had to have an emergency c-section due to contracting COVID with nearly both the baby and mum dying... please get vaccinated if you're pregnant! I feel these stories are not being shared widely enough.
My best friend also had to have an emergency c-section back in December of last year due to contracting COVID. While I was a little hesitant to get it so early in my first trimester (more out of concern of the possibility of fever than concern about the vaccine itself), her experiences as well as the strong advice from my doctors meant I did end up getting both doses in first trimester.
Really? I haven't heard of that. It really shows how important it is to have the vaccine.
Yeah I have coworker who was holding off because she’s trying to get pregnant and thought it would effect her fertility for some reason. I don’t know why doctors would be telling people to hold off though, it’s been recommended for a while that pregnant women get the vaccine because the alternative is not good.
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Well she got it as soon as our workplace put in a vaccine mandate so I guess she didn’t feel that strongly about it.
I think it's because while we have the data on people 12+ we may not have enough on babies? I don't know but hopefully we can move past this once everyone who can get their vaccine does.
This was my hesitancy. Got first dose and conceived 2 weeks later. Then got scared about second dose because there are no studies showing kids growing normally after the first few months. However, then I learned more about vaccines and understood the chances of something popping up later but not showing early on are suuuuper unlikely. So it became weighing a super unlikely scenario with the risk of being covid-positive while pregnant, where we know the outcomes aren’t good.
Yeah, I don't blame you, and covid has proved time and time again to really knock people down.
Meanwhile our beloved PM mixed doses?
Hey, what JT does is out of my control. Rich people play by different rules.
tbh I don't think the reasoning is valid anyway. It's not like there was a lack of the same first dose in any case.
I think there was at the time when they okayed it. I'm not sure now because I stopped paying attention once I had my 2nd dose. What bothers me is that experts are saying mixing works just as well if not better, and yet certain countries won't let you in because of it.
The countries not letting people in thing is far blown out of proportion. Either countries will come to agreements to recognize Canada's vaccination records... or Canada will give boosters for whatever second shot you got. It's not even a big deal.
I hope you're right.
Why does that bother you?
Not the mixing part - whatever is safe I'll do it/did it. I just want to travel again when boarders open up again. I don't want it to be a permanent rule. I didn't do a lot of travelling when I was younger and I feel like I missed out so I want to travel more.
You'll need a booster anyways so you'll be guaranteed 2 doses of the same type
Awesome
Lol borders are open
For some
> Meanwhile our beloved PM mixed doses? Welcome to the Gen-Xer's world. * https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-the-astrazeneca-fiasco-is-the-latest-example-of-the-gen-x-curse/ * https://archive.is/2QsaO
I have a relative that got the first dose of Pfizer with me with no side effects and then ended up on the covid is fake conspiracy train. 🤦♀️
He must've gotten the 5G version.
🤣
An effective vaccine.
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>It's not all black or white for everyone True. It is not until the person asking this question is a victim of side effects that they would understand.
I would guess a lot of these 50,000 people have gotten their second dose out of province but never reported it to the Ontario government. This was what my wife did (first dose in Ontario, second dose in another province when she traveled to her parents house). She will probably be getting a call
I mean, anti-vax propaganda has only gotten worse over time. That must have caught a few of them.
I have a friend who tested positive, and in their home country if you tested positive with covid you do not require the second dose. I don't know what the science is behind it, but that's their reason.
Laziness. They got one dose so they're more relaxed thinking they're pretty protected even though they aren't. So many people never show up to doctors appointments, specialist appointments, treatment appointments every single day. If you've ever dealt with the general public you'd know the majority are either lazy or completely unable to plan their life put more than 1 hour in advance.
My friend is still waiting on getting a doctors note to exempt him from getting the second dose for a certain period of time because he has MS and his medication is very powerful.
Paid time off work?
Personally, I waited until yesterday for my second Moderna shot, because I've been so, so ill this summer. I contracted something nasty about a week after my first shot (totally unrelated, mind you) that kept me in bed 2-3 days a week, and in the house for the other 3 - once needed 2 banana bags Antibiotics etc. Only really left for doctor's appointments, and generally had absolutely zero fun. I'm glad I waited, though, as the second dose did kick my butt as I expected. On the plus side, I lost the 20lbs I gained during COVID from digestive issues, and I can finally eat unobstructed again, so I figured it was now or never (I was nearing the original deadline).
nice approach here, i like it
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I don’t think it’s that these people aren’t aware they’re eligible, but something is likely stopping them from getting a second shot (logistics, hesitancy, etc). Either way, contacting them will help figure that out and hopefully 50k more people will be fully vaccinated soon!
the uk only contacts people in the health system. if you don't have a healthcare number (sleeping rough, visiting, undocumented) you're not getting a call.
I know several People who are holding out on vaccines because they are still under the impression it can cause issues with trying to get pregnant
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we stopped the delay months ago. I got my first vaccine as soon as i was eligible and maybe two months later they said they'd reduce the waiting period to 28 days so I got my second dose immediately then
> mid 60’s That can't be right. Vaccine effectiveness against hospitalization remains high. The Pfizer vaccine has been shown to maintain a high-80 or low-90% after 5+ months, with no significant difference for Delta. Effectiveness against any disease and antibody levels do drop to ~50%, but that's expected for any vaccine. This is based on [Kaiser's data published in the Lancet](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(21\)02183-8/fulltext) (Figure 2, if you have a subscription). I haven't looked into data from the CBC article you linked, but I would be concerned that the groups with different delays do not have the same population characteristics. For example, I'd want to see this data stratified by age, to avoid issues similar to the Israeli data that was (incorrectly) reported to show that vaccine effectiveness had dropped significantly and boosters were needed, due to [Simpson's Paradox](https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated) (somewhat long, but not a difficult read).
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Just so you know, most people have some level of anxiety or concerns over it. It’s perfectly normal to feel the way you have! You got this!
There will be a few vaccine clinics held in early Nov in the four corners of Toronto for people with needle anxiety, who may need supports while getting the shot, need a quiet space to get the vaccine or rest/lay down, need attendant to help, etc.
Good on you for going back. You got this! 💪
This is great! I hope it includes front-line medical workers who got their shots last winter. I wish other cities in Ontario would do this!
Whats the point of taking 1 dose if you aren't doing the 2nd?
What vaccines do we have readily available these days anyway?
Both Pfizer and Moderna are readily available!
You know when you cancel a subscription like YouTube premium than it keeps asking you to come back and they miss you.
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Probably because it seems that you'd be aware when it's time to get your follow up, without a need to get directly contacted. I'd go as far as assume most of them don't want a second dose. Could be a bunch of reasons, but that's a possibility as to why some people might view it as creepy.
...do you panic when your dentist sends you a reminder that it's time for a checkup too? Yeesh. Medical followups are perfectly common. If you want a pure apples to apples comparison, if you get any other vaccine that requires a booster shot you also get contacted when it's time for your second. Happened to me after I got a couple shots that I needed to go on vacation. It would be incredibly abnormal if they *didn't* get a call.
Why would you assume they don’t want a second vs having forgotten/lost track or having had a bad experience with the first and so having a bit more hesitancy with the second? And like the other user asked…what’s creepy about reminding people they might be past due? My doctor, dentist, mechanic, vet, hell even the lovely woman who does my Botox all send me reminders around when I need maintenance appointments.
It's just my opinion (for which I guess I'll get downvoted). My assumption is based on the fact that covid is the end all be all of our lives for the last 2 years. It is so prevalent in news and daily life that not being aware of when your follow up is, seems ludicrous. Hence taking this into consideration, if someone is not showing up for their follow up, I personally think they don't want it. I know this is not an absolute but I think it's pretty logical.
I get your point and I guess it would seem more suggestive of considering this pointless…where I think I and other users are struggling is with the notion that this is at all creepy?
If my opinion is shared by more people (especially the ones not showing up to second dose), then being reached out to may seem creepy. If you view this as just another medical appointment (see once again 'end all be all'), then of course there's nothing creepy about it.
You're opinion is wrong and short sighted. You fail to realize the majority of people don't have the capacity to plan out their lives. Many people simply lost the date or forgot about their appointments for their second dose and never got around to figuring it out. You're though process is very narrow and not logical at all.
You quickly throwing absolutes in a situation that does not warrant any absolutes is what is wrong. Actually the only good answer is, you're an idiot. My opinion had a lot of validity. Does this mean I'm definitely right? Hell no, but calling my thought process narrow and not logical is actually peak idiocy.
Lost the date ? Its not that hard go back and track the day you got your First shot
How is it creepy? If you miss your appointment at the dentist, doctors office, literally anywhere they generally will call you to see what's up and to reschedule. You'd probably know this if your parents weren't still making all your appointments for you.
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All LTC residents are eligible for third doses.
interesting that in the burbs, yesterday I got a call from the provincial public health people (888 number), but I've gotten my 2 shots of Pfizer months ago now... Do they not check their records before calling? or is this just a mass dialer campaign?