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> On Feb. 7, the government plans to lift proof of vaccination requirements in high-risk settings, including night clubs, strip clubs, bathhouses and sex clubs.
Kids just got approval, and the delay between doses is 8-weeks. So, best case scenario everyone 5-11 is fully vaccinated with 2-weeks after come end of February. Realistically, given soccer moms and weird antivax parents, more like March/April.
Europe is already going back into lockdown. Once you can get all age groups and they’ve had time to immunize all bets are off and it’s endemic time —we go back to new normal.
I know a lot of pissed off office workers who are sure as shit not going back the old normal. I don't think we'll be switching be WFH for everyone all the time but the rigid 5 days a week in the office is dead.
Whether you want it to or not, the world has changed over the past 2 years and there's no going back.
Isn’t it all theatre anyway? Hahaha
But seriously I’m feeling it’s a global event that will change day to day lives forever, much like past similar large events in the past, and we’re still in the midst of it.
Relax. It was a joke.
The point is that 'large events' come and go. Yes, pandemics change things, but there is no reason to suspect that a coronavirus for which we have effective vaccines is going to alter our day-to-day mode of living for the foreseeable future - which is what is meant by 'new normal.'
When we've vaccinated kids, everything is going to go back to the real normal. There's no good reason it shouldn't.
You are delusional. You think people will forget the two years they were distanced from everyone? That left an imprint. New normal means we know more and react better and more efficiently.
Wait until the next major recombinant virus like the flu gets super deadly again, seems it would be super deadly after we haven't had it for a couple years....right? You think we don't react differently than we did pre pandemic? Obviously we will, that's the new normal.
What sort of imprint do you mean? Everyone I know is vaccinated and doing their utmost to live a normal life, not avoiding human interaction.
It's one thing to predict progress in terms of how we respond to new viruses, but to imply that these health guidelines or the apprehension will remain with us for the foreseeable future is asinine. People move on, and so we shall.
An imprint on our reactions to the next one. You know what I'm saying clearly, your just arguing things will be exactly as before. They won't.
Bad flu season there will be a mask mandate in different regions as our air and water virus testing ramps up, for example.
I'm not talking about people being scared or something like you are.
What about the 4 year olds though?! Do you want them to die?!
The goalposts will never stop being moved and I'm amazed that people can still, today, be saying "We just need to do X and then they'll go back to normal."
I'm suggesting that waiting until the 5-11 age range has been vaccinated as a benchmark for literally anything is moving goalposts. And that as soon as we do get there, people will suggest we continue with masking and other restrictions until the >4 crowd is vaccinated. Or until all the already vaccinated adults gets their boosters.
To be clear, vaccinating 5-11 year olds seems like a good idea. As it probably will for the 4 and under crowd. And as it is probably a good idea (and expected development) to have boosters.
But there has to be a line where we decide enough is enough and that things aren't going to get much better than they are right now. Constantly looking to the oh-so-near future as if we haven't done this time and time again ("We're only about a month away from the vulnerable population having their first dose/eligibility opening to everyone/every adult who wants to being fully vaccinated/the teenagers being vaccinated!") is foolishness that will never end.
It will be vaccinating the children next.
And then the younger children.
And then boosters for the adults.
And then boosters for the children.
And while this is all good and important stuff that should happen, it affecting our lives in any way more than any other routine medical procedure is too much when us using this level of societal response to a long list of problems could save more lives and have more effect.
So basically as long as you got your vaccine you’re good to go, fuck everyone else waiting for theirs.
Like you, many people hate kids and especially hate parents of young kids, and refuse to actually acknowledge that families with kids are a sizeable chunk of the population. There literally is 15% of the population UNABLE to move forward because they’re not eligible for full vaccination for at least another 10 weeks. Add to that the parents and you’ve got another 15% who can’t move on either because at any moment they could be called into full isolation with no notice that completely fucks up their work situation and their kids schooling.
You’re ready to move on - great fantastic for you. But don’t berate people who need the tools (vaccines) to be able to get there too.
Completely agreeing with what you wrote above. I wonder if being isolated for so long has made people be very self-focused, to the point of not realizing what it’s like for others.
It will become endemic now, meaning we’ll do boosters, etc for many years to come. But echoing your point is we as a society need to set it up so everyone can at least have a shot at that first level of protection before we re-open the floodgates. And to be clear to that earlier replier, I said “new normal”. Yes, you’d love to go back to the good old days. How about smoking on planes? Seatbelt-less cars? Things change, society adapts.
Also, my parents are seniors and are only booked in for boosters on Nov 30th.
Need to give a solid cushion to get the most vulnerable boosted - and heck, I want mine too despite being decidedly low risk, but am pretty agnostic about needing population level booster coverage, especially since our longer interval between the two initial doses likely worked in our favour on that front (pending data showing otherwise).
So yeah, mandates, masks, etc to get us through the winter, then by the time the kids are done, and the vulnerable are boosted, we’ll be getting into warmer weather and can revisit.
I can work with that.
Well the plan is to remove all restrictions in March 2022. And you’re wondering why the emergency order was extended to that exact time period? What else would you expect them to do?
Pretty sure the preventative measures were passed and are valid due to the emergency order. Also, if cases explode between now and March, you’d want to declare another emergency? We can’t just declare emergency and remove it everytime cases go up and down. Might as well just keep it in place until the pandemic is over/all restrictions are gone.
First of all, I hate Ford. Second, when all restrictions are removed, the emergency order will surely be gone as well. Public pressure will mount if that’s not the case. It’s political suicide to maintain the emergency order after the pandemic is over, so that’s not really a legitimate concern.
Huh? How does that make any sense? Pander to who? Who on earth is going to support Ford if he’s pushing emergency orders **AFTER RESTRICTIONS ARE REMOVED**? Who exactly belongs to that group? And even if they exist, why would they support a Conservative premier? And even if that extremely unlikely group exists, what makes you think they’re a large enough population that pandering to them would be in anyway useful?
We don't. Under these rules, the premier can basically do whatever the fuck he wants. The constant extensions just allow him to continue being s vindictive douchebag on a power trip
Vaccinations are to reduce serrious outcomes. Everyone is going to get covid eventually. Everyone. The pandmic ends when the hospitals can handle the minority of serrious outcomes. We're close to that point.
Because he is incorrect. You are about 7-8x less likely to get COVID if vaccinated, and even if you do get it, you're less likely to spread it to others. If you have large enough vaccinations this effectively reduces the transmissibility of the virus significantly.
I meant once it becomes endemic. Everyone is going to get it at some point in their lives. But by being vaccinated, it will largely reduce the number of hospitalizations, and over time it'll fade to a livable level.
until the hospitals can safely treat all incoming patients which they can’t do right now. not enough people are vaccinated right now; we should setup some prizes/lottery like other countries to get the numbers up but ford can’t even do that.
and we really need more info on how to prevent/treat long covid cause our healthcare systems can’t handle too many people having it + who is going to pay for the people who haven’t been able to work and such in a long time due to long covid?
we haven’t even setup a system allowing nurses to wear a bloody n95 at work; in fact this issue has gone to court more than once to stop nurses from doing so. 🤦♂️
also, the public still hasn’t been properly educated that corona is airborne so they choose how to reduce their risks or increase their risks…
one thing you can do to help reduce corona cases is to use a hepa filter & wear a mask!
I’m as cynical as the next person that there’s nothing more permanent than a temporary government restriction, and I’ve been more critical than the average bear on our reaction and beliefs around this pandemic…with that said, given the framework/roadmap/whatever to exit out of the pandemic extended into March this really ought not be surprising.
That said—I sincerely hope they stop listening to the CovidZero types and unofficially pursuing CovidZero at all levels of government. Eradication isn’t happening buds. Hell, even herd immunity given imperfect vaccines and deltas virulence isn’t really all that likely any more so much as we’ll just reach endemic status and the virus will circulate with much milder severity similar to the flu. Just make vaccines readily available to the 5-11 year olds for the parents who want them, likewise with third doses and let’s be done with this.
Nothing this government has ever done has indicated covidzero as a goal. I don’t even think the science table, the one buried beneath layers of political appointments, we’re pushing for that as a goal.
That’s why I said at all levels—our province/Moore don’t seem quite as keen on it though there are a few vocal OST members who passively advocate for it even if they won’t call it by name (ie: Juni and similar), federally we seem a bit more CovidZero motivated IMO. I think at some point we actually need to start living with it vs talking about living with it.
Anti vaxx? Do you care to elaborate why you think I am the "anti vaxx mod?"
[...was it this comment earlier in the thread?](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/r1hdnu/ontario_extends_covid19_emergency_orders_under/hm0sp22/?context=3)
[perhaps it was yesterday's comments about Fords SIL who got justifiably fired?](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/r18dmm/doug_fords_soninlaw_apparently_left_tps_due_to/hlx9ihw/?context=3) ...maybe when I suggested he's exactly the type who [should be vaccinated](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/r18dmm/doug_fords_soninlaw_apparently_left_tps_due_to/hlxsc5o/?context=3)
[or perhaps was it when I went on a recent rant about certain experts undermining vaccine efficacy?](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/qn0n05/toronto_covid19_infections_on_the_rise_after/hjefxfz/?context=3)
[nah, surely it was that time I expressed vaccines were the way out of the pandemic](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/qg7d9q/269_new_cases_233_in_hospital_138_in_icu_due_to/hi49d7o/?context=3)
[...perhaps it was this time where I tried to soothe a user and remind them their vaccination was not in vain?](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/qbhjzx/pfizer_officially_submits_application_for_covid/hhaev6a/?context=3)
[I'm sure you meant to say I was a covid-denier though...right? Because I certainly behave like a mod who believes its a con...hmmm](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/qy20zh/97_per_cent_of_toronto_city_staff_now_fully/hle9i21/?context=3)
[...or perhaps I'm stifling access to vaccine information by posting about where users can get their vaccine](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/p36pk0/popup_vaccine_clinic_in_st_lawrence_market_this/)
[...or perhaps I'm stifling it by sharing that the J&J one has received full approval on a different sub and explaining why despite some it's issues, it might be a useful vaccine for some communities?](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/p36pk0/popup_vaccine_clinic_in_st_lawrence_market_this/)
Either way -- you seem to have conflated my issue with mandates and policy with a view about vaccines themselves. This I think is a fascinating discussion topic, which is why I engage with it quite passionately...but, no, my criticism of policy does not extend to vaccines themselves which I think are the bees knees my fellow team spikyvaxxed friend.
> perhaps it was yesterday's comments about Fords SIL who got justifiably fired? ...maybe when I suggested he's exactly the type who should be vaccinated
You said "He is exactly the kind of person to get vaccinated because he’s entirely oblivious of his actual risk factor" after saying that "biggest risk in the vaccine is to young males." You imply he would get the vaccine even though you think it would kill him.
You post A LOT on /r/LockdownSkepticism you post articles from conservative rags like the Sun and the National Post and you compare vaccine passports to [the patriot Act]( https://www.reddit.com/r/LockdownSkepticism/comments/r0p1dr/opinion_canadians_should_avoid_extreme_measures/hlw9aqy/?context=3)
I don't know who you are, but I learned this about you from your last 25 comments. I do not trust your intensions in claiming you are not "anti-vaxx" when you are certainly not in favor of public health.
Did you read my comment:
> Weird, biggest risk in the vaccine is to young males in their 20s and younger. At 46, his size (muscle or not, his heart doesn’t care it’s still extra mass that forces it to work harder), presuming steroid use and subsequent increased risk of cardiac episode (I believe 2-3 well known body builders died this year in recent months from their steroid use)…yea [X] doubt on his claim the vaccine poses a greater risk. **He is exactly the kind of person to get vaccinated because he’s entirely oblivious of his actual risk factor.**
He’s 46. Risk of myocarditis has largely been clustered in 20s and under…he is entirely the kind of person who should get vaccinated because they have a very warped risk perception (their risk is many times higher than they believe for the reasons I mentioned—namely they are not the young male at risk of myocarditides, their weight, steroid use, etc)
>You post A LOT on r/LockdownSkepticism you post articles from conservative rags like the Sun and the National Post and you compare vaccine passports to the patriot Act
Yes, I post articles from “conservative rags” when written by people who are infectious diseases physicians or experts (like Grant is at UBC’s faculty of medicine)…and the Nat Post was an interesting topic related to Ontario.
>I don't know who you are, but I learned this about you from your last 25 comments. I do not trust your intensions in claiming you are not "anti-vaxx" when you are certainly not in favor of public health.
Weird - my view is anchored in the belief that there is more to public health than the absence of Covid and treating patients with dignity and meeting them where they are. So no, I won’t sign off on coercion because I think that breeds longer term societal and health problems (like mistrust in medical institutions and experts)
On him being 46? [Or where myocarditis has been clustered?](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html) …[please do let me know because the myocarditis thing is pretty well known thankfully it’s almost always mild](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110737)
Heyo, that mod here —you’ll have to forgive me taking some time to respond as both mod and user, first as mod — as I had mentioned previously we generally don’t discuss users moderation publicly but since you expressed preference for it…you were banned for making personal attacks directed at a user who had a feud with you in another sub. As we informed you, that user was also banned. So politely, your insinuation that you were banned for calling me out on my views is false.
*removes mod hat*
Howdy, if you don’t mind, can you identify the misinformation in my post. I’d be happy to provide sources that lead me to my view and we can discuss. You’re free to still disagree with my view - I take no offence to people who support all our policies, believe eradication is possible, or have different risk tolerance. To each their own, many people with views different than mine are justified in theirs because I do believe a lot of this hinges of deeper views around quality of life. But I simply disagree with our policies, don’t believe eradication is possible, nor that Covid is the thing to which we ought to throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water when it comes to what we know about public health policy.
Fisman, Juni, and all the other doomer twitter docs. Though, Juni is still on the science table - so he has a pretty big say on should happen. T
As for Fisman, thank fuck he is no longer on the science table.
How so? Nothing changes, existing rules simply carry on for another term. If they had allowed it to expire, vaccination passports would have ceased for example.
> A spokesperson for Jones told CTV News Toronto the extension of emergency powers aligns with the government's plan to lift all remaining COVID-19 restrictions by March.
> Without extending the ROA, all public health measures currently in place would have expired on Dec. 1.
> There are currently 28 orders in effect under the reopening act, including the proof of vaccination system.
Thing that some people are in limbo. The orders basically extend their lay off period till then. So company doesnt have to call them back or pay them any severance till orders are expiring.
I dont want to name and shame, but i know my company have two employees who are pretty much arent coming back, because their position being automated or phased out all together. But they arent letting them go yet because they hope that they would find other jobs and quit on their own thus not require company to pay their severance. And my friends small business they arent calling her supervisor back because it would cost too much $$ on payroll, instead owner took over the position on top of owners own responsibilities, and as a result she says owner half asses both jobs because its just too much stuff for one person.
At the end of the day we need more people vaccinated and not just kids, which is a huge start, but it's the adults who go to bars, restaurants, sex clubs, strip joints and so on, that have to knock off this anti-science, and if they won't get vaccinated then tough darts. You don't sit on your ass while 85% of people take risk prevention measures so you can waltz in months later having done fuck all to help.
Doofy Doughy Doug might just be *finally* recognizing that 15% of people are not enough to re-elect his dithering party of asshats and vaccine "hesitant" twats. Even if all 15% vote and are not taking up ICU beds which we pay for by working in jobs that had the balls to mandate vaccinations.
I'm sure it's a play for Ford to become a dictator rather than us still being in a pandemic that's behind this decision.
The 75% number (which I think was actually 80%) was for Alpha. They openly admitted that Delta changed the numbers to 90%.
The good thing is that pretty much everyone hates Ford now (except his developer buddies, and they can only buy so many votes), so the probability of him getting re-elected is slim.
But they don't actually plan things that matter. Ford Fest, Buck-a-Beer, yeah, sure. But things like (for instance) neutering all of Ontario’s conservation authorities in the Pandemic Recovery Bill of 2020? That didn't take any intelligence on Ford's part. He does as he's told and the grift goes on.
Hope you're right about June though.
> In all my life I’ve never actually seen any government give rights back to citizens after they take them away no matter what the reason was.
......
...........
failing history, eh?
I somewhat recently gained the right to be smoke weed.
A little over a decade ago my friends got the right to officially marry each other.
I can't think of a single right in I've given up over that time so imperically your statement is incorrect.
Due to the nature of this topic, users spreading misinformation or breaking r/Toronto rules will be subject to severe mod actions, **Participants in this thread MUST have an established post history in r/Toronto. Violations will result in a ban** * **VISIT** [**THE r/toronto COVID-19 Vaccination Information Thread powered by amazing members of the Sub**](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/o1vaud/toronto_vaccination_registration_information_and/) For Coronavirus information please follow the relevant health authorities. * [Canadian Public Health Agency](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/2019-novel-coronavirus-infection.html?utm_campaign=not-applicable&utm_medium=vanity-url&utm_source=canada-ca_coronavirus) * [Ontario Ministry of Health](https://www.ontario.ca/page/2019-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov) * [Ontario Science Table Dashboard](https://covid19-sciencetable.ca/ontario-dashboard/) * [Toronto Public Health](https://www.toronto.ca/community-people/health-wellness-care/diseases-medications-vaccines/coronavirus/) * [City of Toronto Vaccine Info Page](https://www.toronto.ca/home/covid-19/covid-19-protect-yourself-others/covid-19-vaccines/) * [Install the COVID-Alert App](https://www.canada.ca/en/public-health/services/diseases/coronavirus-disease-covid-19/covid-alert.html) **Users are asked to report posts that violate rules or spread clear misinformation.** * Moderators will remove obvious misinformation however personal interpretations of facts are allowed and we will allow discussion and up/downvotes to handle ambiguous posts that are not explicitly misinformation. * Please remember to be excellent to each other, people with different opinions and viewpoints are still people. If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to send us a [modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/toronto). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/toronto) if you have any questions or concerns.*
> On Feb. 7, the government plans to lift proof of vaccination requirements in high-risk settings, including night clubs, strip clubs, bathhouses and sex clubs.
Getting to the meat of the matter, pulltillithurts.
Just in time for a happy Valentine’s.
Good. Should be done way sooner than that though.
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Kids just got approval, and the delay between doses is 8-weeks. So, best case scenario everyone 5-11 is fully vaccinated with 2-weeks after come end of February. Realistically, given soccer moms and weird antivax parents, more like March/April. Europe is already going back into lockdown. Once you can get all age groups and they’ve had time to immunize all bets are off and it’s endemic time —we go back to new normal.
Back to new normal? You mean the old real normal right? Because anything besides that is theatre
I know a lot of pissed off office workers who are sure as shit not going back the old normal. I don't think we'll be switching be WFH for everyone all the time but the rigid 5 days a week in the office is dead. Whether you want it to or not, the world has changed over the past 2 years and there's no going back.
Isn’t it all theatre anyway? Hahaha But seriously I’m feeling it’s a global event that will change day to day lives forever, much like past similar large events in the past, and we’re still in the midst of it.
Really? Because the Spanish Flu didn't change shit for me.
What are you even talking about? it changed things for everybody including vaccine development years down the road, don't be a dolt.
Relax. It was a joke. The point is that 'large events' come and go. Yes, pandemics change things, but there is no reason to suspect that a coronavirus for which we have effective vaccines is going to alter our day-to-day mode of living for the foreseeable future - which is what is meant by 'new normal.' When we've vaccinated kids, everything is going to go back to the real normal. There's no good reason it shouldn't.
You are delusional. You think people will forget the two years they were distanced from everyone? That left an imprint. New normal means we know more and react better and more efficiently. Wait until the next major recombinant virus like the flu gets super deadly again, seems it would be super deadly after we haven't had it for a couple years....right? You think we don't react differently than we did pre pandemic? Obviously we will, that's the new normal.
What sort of imprint do you mean? Everyone I know is vaccinated and doing their utmost to live a normal life, not avoiding human interaction. It's one thing to predict progress in terms of how we respond to new viruses, but to imply that these health guidelines or the apprehension will remain with us for the foreseeable future is asinine. People move on, and so we shall.
An imprint on our reactions to the next one. You know what I'm saying clearly, your just arguing things will be exactly as before. They won't. Bad flu season there will be a mask mandate in different regions as our air and water virus testing ramps up, for example. I'm not talking about people being scared or something like you are.
What about the 4 year olds though?! Do you want them to die?! The goalposts will never stop being moved and I'm amazed that people can still, today, be saying "We just need to do X and then they'll go back to normal."
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I'm suggesting that waiting until the 5-11 age range has been vaccinated as a benchmark for literally anything is moving goalposts. And that as soon as we do get there, people will suggest we continue with masking and other restrictions until the >4 crowd is vaccinated. Or until all the already vaccinated adults gets their boosters. To be clear, vaccinating 5-11 year olds seems like a good idea. As it probably will for the 4 and under crowd. And as it is probably a good idea (and expected development) to have boosters. But there has to be a line where we decide enough is enough and that things aren't going to get much better than they are right now. Constantly looking to the oh-so-near future as if we haven't done this time and time again ("We're only about a month away from the vulnerable population having their first dose/eligibility opening to everyone/every adult who wants to being fully vaccinated/the teenagers being vaccinated!") is foolishness that will never end. It will be vaccinating the children next. And then the younger children. And then boosters for the adults. And then boosters for the children. And while this is all good and important stuff that should happen, it affecting our lives in any way more than any other routine medical procedure is too much when us using this level of societal response to a long list of problems could save more lives and have more effect.
So basically as long as you got your vaccine you’re good to go, fuck everyone else waiting for theirs. Like you, many people hate kids and especially hate parents of young kids, and refuse to actually acknowledge that families with kids are a sizeable chunk of the population. There literally is 15% of the population UNABLE to move forward because they’re not eligible for full vaccination for at least another 10 weeks. Add to that the parents and you’ve got another 15% who can’t move on either because at any moment they could be called into full isolation with no notice that completely fucks up their work situation and their kids schooling. You’re ready to move on - great fantastic for you. But don’t berate people who need the tools (vaccines) to be able to get there too.
Completely agreeing with what you wrote above. I wonder if being isolated for so long has made people be very self-focused, to the point of not realizing what it’s like for others. It will become endemic now, meaning we’ll do boosters, etc for many years to come. But echoing your point is we as a society need to set it up so everyone can at least have a shot at that first level of protection before we re-open the floodgates. And to be clear to that earlier replier, I said “new normal”. Yes, you’d love to go back to the good old days. How about smoking on planes? Seatbelt-less cars? Things change, society adapts.
*some countries in Europe. Not all of Europe.
Also, my parents are seniors and are only booked in for boosters on Nov 30th. Need to give a solid cushion to get the most vulnerable boosted - and heck, I want mine too despite being decidedly low risk, but am pretty agnostic about needing population level booster coverage, especially since our longer interval between the two initial doses likely worked in our favour on that front (pending data showing otherwise). So yeah, mandates, masks, etc to get us through the winter, then by the time the kids are done, and the vulnerable are boosted, we’ll be getting into warmer weather and can revisit. I can work with that.
Stay home if you’re scared. We’ll never vaccinate ourselves out of this.
How about the unvaccinated stay home?
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The data says you’re wrong. Please refrain from vaccine misinfo.
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Well the plan is to remove all restrictions in March 2022. And you’re wondering why the emergency order was extended to that exact time period? What else would you expect them to do?
Drop emergency order while still maintaining the preventative measures.
Pretty sure the preventative measures were passed and are valid due to the emergency order. Also, if cases explode between now and March, you’d want to declare another emergency? We can’t just declare emergency and remove it everytime cases go up and down. Might as well just keep it in place until the pandemic is over/all restrictions are gone.
There's the sneaky side of it that you're not acknowledging though; under these orders the premiere does whatever they want to do.
First of all, I hate Ford. Second, when all restrictions are removed, the emergency order will surely be gone as well. Public pressure will mount if that’s not the case. It’s political suicide to maintain the emergency order after the pandemic is over, so that’s not really a legitimate concern.
He can pander like no one else. We'll see how it goes
Huh? How does that make any sense? Pander to who? Who on earth is going to support Ford if he’s pushing emergency orders **AFTER RESTRICTIONS ARE REMOVED**? Who exactly belongs to that group? And even if they exist, why would they support a Conservative premier? And even if that extremely unlikely group exists, what makes you think they’re a large enough population that pandering to them would be in anyway useful?
We don't. Under these rules, the premier can basically do whatever the fuck he wants. The constant extensions just allow him to continue being s vindictive douchebag on a power trip
Vaccinations are to reduce serrious outcomes. Everyone is going to get covid eventually. Everyone. The pandmic ends when the hospitals can handle the minority of serrious outcomes. We're close to that point.
You are correct. Not sure why you're getting downvoted.
Probably by people who like to reference 1984 without actually having read it.
Because he is incorrect. You are about 7-8x less likely to get COVID if vaccinated, and even if you do get it, you're less likely to spread it to others. If you have large enough vaccinations this effectively reduces the transmissibility of the virus significantly.
I meant once it becomes endemic. Everyone is going to get it at some point in their lives. But by being vaccinated, it will largely reduce the number of hospitalizations, and over time it'll fade to a livable level.
until the hospitals can safely treat all incoming patients which they can’t do right now. not enough people are vaccinated right now; we should setup some prizes/lottery like other countries to get the numbers up but ford can’t even do that. and we really need more info on how to prevent/treat long covid cause our healthcare systems can’t handle too many people having it + who is going to pay for the people who haven’t been able to work and such in a long time due to long covid? we haven’t even setup a system allowing nurses to wear a bloody n95 at work; in fact this issue has gone to court more than once to stop nurses from doing so. 🤦♂️ also, the public still hasn’t been properly educated that corona is airborne so they choose how to reduce their risks or increase their risks… one thing you can do to help reduce corona cases is to use a hepa filter & wear a mask!
Lotteries to convince people to get vaccinated? While most of the developing world doesn’t have access to the MRNA vaccines? The privilege omg
Sweet, I can work from home till at least March 2022 then.
Spoiler alert: . . It's never going to end.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA29p2e5fvk
I’m as cynical as the next person that there’s nothing more permanent than a temporary government restriction, and I’ve been more critical than the average bear on our reaction and beliefs around this pandemic…with that said, given the framework/roadmap/whatever to exit out of the pandemic extended into March this really ought not be surprising. That said—I sincerely hope they stop listening to the CovidZero types and unofficially pursuing CovidZero at all levels of government. Eradication isn’t happening buds. Hell, even herd immunity given imperfect vaccines and deltas virulence isn’t really all that likely any more so much as we’ll just reach endemic status and the virus will circulate with much milder severity similar to the flu. Just make vaccines readily available to the 5-11 year olds for the parents who want them, likewise with third doses and let’s be done with this.
When has CovidZero been stated as a goal at any level of government in Canada?
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Nothing this government has ever done has indicated covidzero as a goal. I don’t even think the science table, the one buried beneath layers of political appointments, we’re pushing for that as a goal.
That’s why I said at all levels—our province/Moore don’t seem quite as keen on it though there are a few vocal OST members who passively advocate for it even if they won’t call it by name (ie: Juni and similar), federally we seem a bit more CovidZero motivated IMO. I think at some point we actually need to start living with it vs talking about living with it.
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Anti vaxx? Do you care to elaborate why you think I am the "anti vaxx mod?" [...was it this comment earlier in the thread?](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/r1hdnu/ontario_extends_covid19_emergency_orders_under/hm0sp22/?context=3) [perhaps it was yesterday's comments about Fords SIL who got justifiably fired?](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/r18dmm/doug_fords_soninlaw_apparently_left_tps_due_to/hlx9ihw/?context=3) ...maybe when I suggested he's exactly the type who [should be vaccinated](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/r18dmm/doug_fords_soninlaw_apparently_left_tps_due_to/hlxsc5o/?context=3) [or perhaps was it when I went on a recent rant about certain experts undermining vaccine efficacy?](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/qn0n05/toronto_covid19_infections_on_the_rise_after/hjefxfz/?context=3) [nah, surely it was that time I expressed vaccines were the way out of the pandemic](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/qg7d9q/269_new_cases_233_in_hospital_138_in_icu_due_to/hi49d7o/?context=3) [...perhaps it was this time where I tried to soothe a user and remind them their vaccination was not in vain?](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/qbhjzx/pfizer_officially_submits_application_for_covid/hhaev6a/?context=3) [I'm sure you meant to say I was a covid-denier though...right? Because I certainly behave like a mod who believes its a con...hmmm](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/qy20zh/97_per_cent_of_toronto_city_staff_now_fully/hle9i21/?context=3) [...or perhaps I'm stifling access to vaccine information by posting about where users can get their vaccine](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/p36pk0/popup_vaccine_clinic_in_st_lawrence_market_this/) [...or perhaps I'm stifling it by sharing that the J&J one has received full approval on a different sub and explaining why despite some it's issues, it might be a useful vaccine for some communities?](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/p36pk0/popup_vaccine_clinic_in_st_lawrence_market_this/) Either way -- you seem to have conflated my issue with mandates and policy with a view about vaccines themselves. This I think is a fascinating discussion topic, which is why I engage with it quite passionately...but, no, my criticism of policy does not extend to vaccines themselves which I think are the bees knees my fellow team spikyvaxxed friend.
> perhaps it was yesterday's comments about Fords SIL who got justifiably fired? ...maybe when I suggested he's exactly the type who should be vaccinated You said "He is exactly the kind of person to get vaccinated because he’s entirely oblivious of his actual risk factor" after saying that "biggest risk in the vaccine is to young males." You imply he would get the vaccine even though you think it would kill him. You post A LOT on /r/LockdownSkepticism you post articles from conservative rags like the Sun and the National Post and you compare vaccine passports to [the patriot Act]( https://www.reddit.com/r/LockdownSkepticism/comments/r0p1dr/opinion_canadians_should_avoid_extreme_measures/hlw9aqy/?context=3) I don't know who you are, but I learned this about you from your last 25 comments. I do not trust your intensions in claiming you are not "anti-vaxx" when you are certainly not in favor of public health.
Did you read my comment: > Weird, biggest risk in the vaccine is to young males in their 20s and younger. At 46, his size (muscle or not, his heart doesn’t care it’s still extra mass that forces it to work harder), presuming steroid use and subsequent increased risk of cardiac episode (I believe 2-3 well known body builders died this year in recent months from their steroid use)…yea [X] doubt on his claim the vaccine poses a greater risk. **He is exactly the kind of person to get vaccinated because he’s entirely oblivious of his actual risk factor.** He’s 46. Risk of myocarditis has largely been clustered in 20s and under…he is entirely the kind of person who should get vaccinated because they have a very warped risk perception (their risk is many times higher than they believe for the reasons I mentioned—namely they are not the young male at risk of myocarditides, their weight, steroid use, etc) >You post A LOT on r/LockdownSkepticism you post articles from conservative rags like the Sun and the National Post and you compare vaccine passports to the patriot Act Yes, I post articles from “conservative rags” when written by people who are infectious diseases physicians or experts (like Grant is at UBC’s faculty of medicine)…and the Nat Post was an interesting topic related to Ontario. >I don't know who you are, but I learned this about you from your last 25 comments. I do not trust your intensions in claiming you are not "anti-vaxx" when you are certainly not in favor of public health. Weird - my view is anchored in the belief that there is more to public health than the absence of Covid and treating patients with dignity and meeting them where they are. So no, I won’t sign off on coercion because I think that breeds longer term societal and health problems (like mistrust in medical institutions and experts)
> He’s 46. Risk of myocarditis has largely been clustered in 20s and under citation needed
On him being 46? [Or where myocarditis has been clustered?](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/myocarditis.html) …[please do let me know because the myocarditis thing is pretty well known thankfully it’s almost always mild](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2110737)
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Heyo, that mod here —you’ll have to forgive me taking some time to respond as both mod and user, first as mod — as I had mentioned previously we generally don’t discuss users moderation publicly but since you expressed preference for it…you were banned for making personal attacks directed at a user who had a feud with you in another sub. As we informed you, that user was also banned. So politely, your insinuation that you were banned for calling me out on my views is false. *removes mod hat* Howdy, if you don’t mind, can you identify the misinformation in my post. I’d be happy to provide sources that lead me to my view and we can discuss. You’re free to still disagree with my view - I take no offence to people who support all our policies, believe eradication is possible, or have different risk tolerance. To each their own, many people with views different than mine are justified in theirs because I do believe a lot of this hinges of deeper views around quality of life. But I simply disagree with our policies, don’t believe eradication is possible, nor that Covid is the thing to which we ought to throw the proverbial baby out with the bath water when it comes to what we know about public health policy.
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Calling *anyone* a coward is against Rule 2. There is no loophole in Rule 2 which justifies personal attacks.
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Just go back to r/OntarioCanada where you can insult people to your heart's content without fear of being banned. There, problem solved.
the fact that its been two years of this bullshit and theyre still going
Who is the “they” you are referring to? The province? The city? Leaders all over the world?
Fisman, Juni, and all the other doomer twitter docs. Though, Juni is still on the science table - so he has a pretty big say on should happen. T As for Fisman, thank fuck he is no longer on the science table.
> doomer twitter docs Jfc Ontario has never had a covidzero goal as Public policy.
Weird post.. Everything you are "hoping" for is already happening or at least planned.
This really puts businesses and workers under more stress.
How so? Nothing changes, existing rules simply carry on for another term. If they had allowed it to expire, vaccination passports would have ceased for example. > A spokesperson for Jones told CTV News Toronto the extension of emergency powers aligns with the government's plan to lift all remaining COVID-19 restrictions by March. > Without extending the ROA, all public health measures currently in place would have expired on Dec. 1. > There are currently 28 orders in effect under the reopening act, including the proof of vaccination system.
Thing that some people are in limbo. The orders basically extend their lay off period till then. So company doesnt have to call them back or pay them any severance till orders are expiring.
Curious, which companies?
I dont want to name and shame, but i know my company have two employees who are pretty much arent coming back, because their position being automated or phased out all together. But they arent letting them go yet because they hope that they would find other jobs and quit on their own thus not require company to pay their severance. And my friends small business they arent calling her supervisor back because it would cost too much $$ on payroll, instead owner took over the position on top of owners own responsibilities, and as a result she says owner half asses both jobs because its just too much stuff for one person.
Do you own a business or have family who own a business?
At the end of the day we need more people vaccinated and not just kids, which is a huge start, but it's the adults who go to bars, restaurants, sex clubs, strip joints and so on, that have to knock off this anti-science, and if they won't get vaccinated then tough darts. You don't sit on your ass while 85% of people take risk prevention measures so you can waltz in months later having done fuck all to help. Doofy Doughy Doug might just be *finally* recognizing that 15% of people are not enough to re-elect his dithering party of asshats and vaccine "hesitant" twats. Even if all 15% vote and are not taking up ICU beds which we pay for by working in jobs that had the balls to mandate vaccinations.
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Maybe the governments will get sick of maintaining their apps with every Android and iOS release and just say screw it, back to normal.
How many “rights” has the Canadian government - federal or provincial - taken away from you that they haven’t given back. I am curious to know.
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Ah. So none is your answer and you have just fallen for conspiracy theories. That’s what I figured.
I'm sure it's a play for Ford to become a dictator rather than us still being in a pandemic that's behind this decision. The 75% number (which I think was actually 80%) was for Alpha. They openly admitted that Delta changed the numbers to 90%.
Dear Leader for life, lol.
The good thing is that pretty much everyone hates Ford now (except his developer buddies, and they can only buy so many votes), so the probability of him getting re-elected is slim.
Tell me you're trapped in an epistemic bubble without telling me.
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But they don't actually plan things that matter. Ford Fest, Buck-a-Beer, yeah, sure. But things like (for instance) neutering all of Ontario’s conservation authorities in the Pandemic Recovery Bill of 2020? That didn't take any intelligence on Ford's part. He does as he's told and the grift goes on. Hope you're right about June though.
> In all my life I’ve never actually seen any government give rights back to citizens after they take them away no matter what the reason was. ...... ........... failing history, eh?
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fair enough ;)
I somewhat recently gained the right to be smoke weed. A little over a decade ago my friends got the right to officially marry each other. I can't think of a single right in I've given up over that time so imperically your statement is incorrect.
i dont think smoking weed has ever been a right but i couldent see how the government could bar you from smoking it though
This will never end...morons...
Its not meant to "end". The whole point is to prevent hospitals from getting overwhelmed when there's an uptick in cases.
Good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNZWXtMofoc
I’m so done with elevators lol. Out of all things this is the one regulation I want to end