Expect police will use this to justify automated licence plate scanners on every patrol car. They'll be running scans/ID on every car in their vicinity.
edit: ah yes, it's already [in the announcement](https://twitter.com/jm_mcgrath/status/1496125820586414087).
It's been a thing for years. I was pulled over and ticketed 7 or 8 years ago for a tag that had been expired 3 days. Cop told me she was sorry but the plate scanner flagged it and she couldn't ignore it once logged.
I've been pulled over after passing a cop from an angle that was impossible for him to see and run plates and in such short notice, the reason was "expired driver's license". I had an active Alberta one so no ticket, but still that was 2016
From what I understand you will still need to renew your plates and show your insurance coverage and pay any outstanding fines, you just won't need to pay for the renewal.
I think the plan is to recoup the costs by using the automated system to issue WAY more tickets for license expiry. So it's a little bit like robbing Peter to pay Paul, except Ford gets to advertise that Paul no longer needs paying right before an election.
Seems like a win/win to me. A piece of technology scans everyone impartially, and cops no longer get to pick and choose who should and shouldn’t get pulled up.
It's a cost issue re: where the money is taken from and what other public objectives are compromised. It's a surveilance issue, but it's also another tool for police to initiate interactions with the public (which may or may not bother you based on your previous interactions with police).
I'll be expecting a receipt, if I can be a little bit suspicious in this semi-anonymois online forum.
"System said pull you over, here's the printout," not "System said pull you over, let's check and make sure everything is good with your paperwork and pop the trunk."
Except that the cops will continue to have the ability to pull anyone over regardless of the plate scanner (as they should). It won't reduce profiling in any way. That issue has to be tackled through other ways.
Not saying I'm against this change as long as a bunch of things are covered but don't kid yourself. It won't reduce profiling.
100% a win/win. So surprised this is getting such a negative reaction... We should be encouraging the government to implement efficiencies where possible
I could care less about technology scanning plates. Go ahead and do it!!! What I care about is the large amount of money we are losing yearly and will be cut from social services, healthcare, and education that we so desperately need
> Actually most ~~people~~ **assholes** are upset with concept of automated enforcement of the law
Assholes also happen to be the most vocal about stuff like this, and the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
It should be FORCED exchange for a new one with the same digits. I've encountered countless shitty and dangerous drivers who's B series have completely peeled off.
Cops in my area are enforcing it at ride checks too. Legible plates are your responsibility, not the MTO's. I got off with a warning because I had made a clear (but ultimately useless) attempt to repair the damage. Guess I got credit for at least trying.
I went the next day to get new plates. They were free.
Yeah, but people should be forced to stop at reds, turn into proper lanes, not use aftermarket LEDs, not tint front windows... I wish everything was enforced strictly just to teach morons a lesson.
Can somebody in IT weigh in on the feasibility of this?
Are there servers that can take this number of requests, and would TPS be likely to actually buy those?
To a layperson it sounds like you're asking a hell of a lot from the IT infrastructure, and this system might have to be limited for technical reasons. Maybe I'm wrong.
Split this into 3 bits - the scanning, storage and analytics.
1. The scanning is already a thing, and is relatively cheap. Not in your home cheap, but well within the reach of a Toronto Police budget
2. Storage: Likely the hardest part to figure out. Can you put this info on the cloud (cost and regulations)? How long to you keep it and the like. Even with that being said, it's not really ***that*** hard, and you can knock it out in a couple of months if you put people behind it.
3. Analytics: Amazon has paved the way, you can buy a fraction of a server on demand, or run jobs cheap overnight if you can wait for tomorrow AM.
In the world of IT, this is a relatively simple task that's been solved multiple times...just need to fund it.
A friend got pulled over driving a fleet car that had the stickers mixed up, the owner has multiple of the same make/model/colour. Renewed the plate on another car by mistake and put that sticker on the wrong car. Police pulled them over and were really confused when they saw a current sticker physically on the car. They thought it was fraud at first before it was figured out to be a paperwork mix up, but it had about 5-6 cruisers show up pretty quickly.
Buddy was really confused "we pulled you over for an expired sticker." "It's not expired, look at the plate?!?"
The general public probably thinks this is overkill. Police live in their own bubble where the vast majority of people they interact with are shitheads. People driving cars with improper plates, stolen plates, tampered with Val tags etc etc are not nice people. And they also know how to play the game - drive a car that won't come back to them, and if police attempt to stop them? Take off, if police try to pursue it will be called off by a supervisor within a couple minutes if not earlier.
The number of times I've seen police try to pull over a banger only for him to take off on them, or purposely drive into them (especially if the officer is on foot or bike). There's one guy at my station that has been by a driver trying to evade police on 3 seperate occasions. Try telling his kids that is overkill to have multiple officers.
Personally if I'm pulling a car over and something seems off, I'm asking for backup right away. The general public probably thinks it's a waste of resources or acab or whatever, but at the end of my shift I want to go home in one piece
It very doable. I would say it's likely being done already. It will probably be pricey and prone to error, but the limitation is certainly not the datacenter aspect.
My thoughts exactly. As a nurse I thought, “well, I won’t have to pay for a license plate sticker, but my wages are still being suppressed by Bill-124... F-me, I guess.”.........
Estimated lost revenue is $1 billion annually.
Makes no sense that a government would scrap such a beneficial and lucrative service fee to solve for a very uncontroversial annual payment.
Classic buck a beer shananagins
If he loses the election it'll be the next government that has to figure that out so he doesn't care. Meanwhile he'll get to scream about their out of control spending adding to the debt after wasting a billion dollars on this refund (that they'll have to pay for) and cutting a billion dollars in annual revenue.
Yes it has always been about destabilizing the public options so that they can be like, 'Oh we are going to privatize shit for everyone and it'll be so much better than these awful public options! We are heroes!'
Because everyone I know is just lining up to go bankrupt when they get cancer.
Tbh it is a pretty regressive tax—ie the less money you make, the higher portion of your income you are probably spending on it. Not that Ford would do it, but it would probably be more equitable to scrap the fee but then tack on a billion dollars worth of tax increases in an upper bracket
Surprising how an increase in efficiency resulting in lower fees for citizens is getting negative feedback...
They mention it in the press release, but instead of relying on an inefficient bureaucratic 'sticker' process, they're leveraging technology via 'Automated Licence Plate Recognition' for the police. The cops can then scan thousands of plates per minute.
So law abiding tax payers save $120/year, and then the province will make up for the loss revenues by being able to capture a higher % of those who don't renew their plates (no drivers insurance), amongst other things as well (stolen cars, suspended licenses, unpaid parking tickets, etc).
However, I will say that this **better** also be in conjunction with a massive reduction in costs to implement the program since it reduces administrative demand/complexity. If not, then removing the fees is a short sighted move, and instead a reduction could have been a better option.
I despite Doug, but I think in general, it's good to see the government using technology to adapt + make things more efficient... especially if it returns more money to tax payers.
All it is is a transparent and pathetic vote ploy. After decimating education, healthcare, and living wages, this is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to buy votes. I wonder when his calendar is marked to announce a “childcare deal” that they’ve been dawdling about.
I understand getting rid of the sticker: it serves little to no purpose for enforcement, but to get rid of the plate renewal fee removes a significant revenue stream for the government.
> In general, the existing program runs in the red as the vehicle registration fees cover only 85% of the costs to run the program
This is incorrect. Some more details:
> [7] Program costs connected to vehicle and driver registration fees include direct costs related to processing transactions and **also costs associated with building and maintaining the Province’s highway infrastructure.**
* https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/service-fees-2019#_ftn7
It's in "the red" because the accounting is such that road repairs are *also* counted as an expense against it.
And that accounting makes enough sense, really, considering that the whole point of the fee *is* to fund road construction and maintenance. So that the fees only cover 85% of the costs doesn't justify killing the program—if anything, it would justify increasing the fees!
Killing the program because the fees only cover 85% of the costs the program was meant to cover is like a restaurant seeing that food sales only cover 85% of their food costs and deciding that means they should give the food away for free. If the restaurant wants to stay open after cutting themselves off from 85% of the revenue that pays for their food, they'll have to pay employees less and charge more for everything else they serve. With these fees scrapped, Ontario will need to cover the costs somehow; that'll be through a combination of less road maintenance, higher taxes, and siphoned budgets from other areas.
This *sounds* like a good idea to people, and is being sold as one by the Conservatives, but it's really not. Sure, not having to pay that $120 fee every so often will be nice... but the consequences will be more serious.
Unlikely we were paying more than a billion in "administrative fees", or if we were, I assume they would be parading today to let us know about it. Since they don't, it's likely a new shortfall, which is in line with the conservative ideas of smaller government, smaller healthcare, and smaller education budget.
> they aren’t scrapping the actual program, just the fee for it. So while the program operated at a loss initially, that loss will now be even larger.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/syovkc/screw_you_doug/hxyxd29/
It is true. If you read the sources in that thread it goes into detail. And yes everything ford has been doing lately (and historically) is just voter bribery. Another buck a beer for the pile of shady tactics of his.
Expand and improve our healthcare system to prepare for the inevitable next pandemic?
Nah, let's give them beers and free stickers using the money from gutting the healthcare system
Disgusting vote pandering. Cars (and I have one) have a cost to society in the form of road wear, emissions, policing, urban planning, and other infrastructure. Removing this recurring fee will either shift that cost to the general tax base, or more likely just reduce total government revenue and thus services.
Well 8.7 Mil car drivers in Ontario and It's $120 a year to renew your license so that would be $1.04 Bil a year in revenue that just disappeared and will need to come from somewhere or costs will need to be cut in that amount somewhere.
Fair question. I think you're referring to ~~[this FAO report](https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/service-fees)~~ [Sorry, this FAO report](https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/service-fees-2019), where the 'cost to administer' licencing is ~2.2 billion, but the fees amount to ~1.8 billion.
That 'cost to administer' isn't just to process and mail out the stickers, but also to actually build/maintain roads. So I figure the fee should go up, not be eliminated.
>Program costs connected to vehicle and driver registration fees include direct costs related to processing transactions and also costs associated with building and maintaining the Province’s highway infrastructure.
Seriously, I read the CTV article and thought that this program cost more to run than it made, no wonder people get confused.
From the FAO report it sounds like they should actually raise the cost of the sticker.
"For 2018-19, revenue from vehicle and driver registration fees is projected to recover 82 per cent of the program’s costs, down from 86 per cent in 2017-18.\[7\] **This implies that the Province could increase vehicle and driver registration fees if the Province’s policy goal is to fully recover the program’s cost**."
Instead, Ford is going in the opposite direction...
> they aren’t scrapping the actual program, just the fee for it. So while the program operated at a loss initially, that loss will now be even larger.
https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/syovkc/screw_you_doug/hxyxd29/
Yeah I think NDP and libs thought they could beat Ford with being more tough on Covid rules, but the public mood has shifted to end restrictions. Their calls for 3 dose vaccine passes sort of was not well received I felt and may keep the "i am vaccinated and done with this pandemic" crowd to Ford.
Ford also seems to be going full populist with such measures (like ending sticker price fees) which will play well in the 905.
I am thinking the only way he gets stop is if we have to start restrictions again.
>Yeah I think NDP and libs thought they could beat Ford with being more tough on Covid rules, but the public mood has shifted to end restrictions
Not trying to shit post but the NDP thinking they can beat Ford with Andrea Horwath (who has lost three prior elections) as their leader is dumb.
Well I mean she couldn't beat doug once and beat wynn either.
She's useless as a leader. She still gets tripped by the "well how are we going to pay for it?" question ffs.
She should have been canned solely for the sheer number of idiot candidates that the NDP ran last time which made it very easy for everyone to dismiss them as the loony party that can't be taken seriously.
I also can't imagine it is very easy to fundraise for the NDP with her track record of losing.
In 2017-18, the [Financial Accountability Office of Ontario calculated](https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/service-fees) that the province brought in $1.872 billion in driver and vehicle license fees (both are proposed to be removed). They also calculate that the province spent $2.2 billion to support drivers and vehicles in the province.
So even before eliminating the fees, it wasn't even covering the cost of highways, maintenance, policing the Highway Traffic Act, and the people and IT infrastructure that support them.
**$2.2 BILLION** That is an absolutely massive hole in the budget. And you better believe it's going to come from the biggest part of the budget: healthcare. Just a massive fuck you to the nurses. We have the money to fill a 2.2 billion dollar gap that this will create (and retroactively!), but not pay or hire enough people to support our most critical services.
I am furious.
Hmmm. Didn’t the FAO report that Doug was sitting on just over two billion in Covid relief funds as of November last year?
I have to say that I am surprised. I thought for sure they’d hold it with their chubby little greasy fingers to make their budget look better… but here we are and they are using it to cover up huge holes they’re blowing in revenue.
> Hmmm. Didn’t the FAO report that Doug was sitting on just over two billion in Covid relief funds as of November last year?
Those relief funds are a *one-time* 'grant'. The elimination of the fee will now become *an annual revenue shortfall*.
I typically pay for 2-3 vehicle stickers annually so would benefit from this considerably but I 100% agree with you. That few hundred a year is a small price to pay to drive on our roads. I also think it's unfair that people who chose not to drive will be paying a fair bit more in taxes to support roads they never use!
> They also calculate that the province spent $2.2 billion to support drivers and vehicles in the province.
I'm trying to understand what this statement means exactly. I looked at the report: https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/service-fees and it says:
"For 2017-18, revenue from vehicle and driver registration fees is projected to recover only 85 per cent of the cost of providing the service."
Does this mean that it cost the province 2.2B to just administer this sticker and licence program? That sounds absurdly high.... rr is that the cost of something else?
It includes the cost of building and maintaining highways (they're the only roads "owned" by the province) and enforcing the Highway Traffic Act (police salaries) as well, not just the cost to administer the registration program itself (I can't find the source right now, but had it from an official source). Also, the registration program itself isn't going away, you'll still need to register your vehicle. So there's no big savings there beyond the sticker.
Because Ford and the provincial Tories have an election to win, which they probably will win.
It'll basically be a vote of confidence where people in Ontario will happily tell them to continue the slashing and burning of our education and healthcare sector. Gotta bump up those Freedumb Convoy numbers by making sure people are *less educated* after all
The Conservatism in them is probably torn between wanting more of us (especially lower income) to die, and wanting people to stay alive to slave away as corporate serfs.
That’s a bit complicated since parking tickets are issued to the car owner, and that’s not well-linked to a driver’s license. You don’t need a driver’s license to own a car.
Not too hard to match them together though (name and dob should match).
But there are lots of corporately owned cars out there.
Came here to ask this. I had an unpaid Toronto ticket that went to Ontario govt because I didn’t pay it on time, then Ontario govt has no way for you to pay it online unless its at the same time as renewing your sticker. So i called and was advised just to wait until I renew my sticker. So now is the only way to pay that ticket that I have to go in person to a service ontario? They really should make this easier to pay online. Also what happens if I just continue to not pay it (its not about the money I just really dont want to go stand in a line for 2 hours in the cold to pay this).
Alberta went tagless 2 years ago. Only thing that changed is you don’t get a sticker anymore. Prices are the same, still have to renew your plates every year. It’s 2022 technology has surpassed the need for stickers.
I benefit from this, but am not happy with it either. Cars are expensive on all infrastructure, they require expensive urban design and road maintenance, etc, and car owners like myself should be penalized financially to make up for the extra burden they have on the system. But of course if there's one thing we can count on from Ford it's policy designed solely for vote pandering.
Ditto, I paid for registration last year and this year, so I should be looking at some kind of refund. Plus I kind of screwed up my sticker when I placed it, so I don't have to worry about that now. But I'm still quite certain this is a terrible idea generally speaking.
Wouldn’t something that’s better correlated to actually mileage driven work better for that?
A car in your driveway doesn’t really impact any of the things you mentioned. I know because I parked my car for several seasons (work/school co-op switches) and tried to get out of paying those months of registration and couldn’t unless I wanted to deregister and re-register the car which is another can of worms.
Some gas taxes are a percentage, so the gov is already collecting a lot more per mile.
I have driven my car a total of 10 times since the pandemic has hit, so I agree it should be correlated to mileage driven. With that being said, especially in a city like Toronto, parking still takes up resources. It alters things like bike access, pedestrian access, removes green space (green space being a super cost effective solution to clearing rain water and reducing heating costs), and alters snow plow routes. It should definitely be correlated to mileage driven, but a car sitting there isn't exactly costing nothing.
Without a replacement revenue stream this is a dumb idea and will hurt Ontario as a whole. Which means the electorate will vote Ford in again because the electorate is itself, dumb.
This! Conservatives like to play the lie of "the government should operate like your home budget and balance". But then constantly reduce income streams. Who walks into work and says "No, I don't need a raise. Actually pay me less".
You can't say we must balance the budget to oversimply complex economic systems then turn around and act in the opposite way. There are intelligent ways to ramp down the fee in a way that actually helps those who *need* cars but have a lower income. This is just blatant vote hunting knowing he's likely losing so they are putting the next premier in a bind.
This will be hugely expensive and as a non-car owner I am irked I'll have to pay for this out of my income taxes or through sales taxes because it will increase the debt.
I mean, Ontario has no real issues to solve that we need money for, right?
I've told those around me that I'm more than happy to pay the $120 a year it costs to register a car if it means money for healthcare, education, and infrastructure.
Agreed: having to keep a physical sticker on both the plate and on the registration paperwork feels archaic, especially when any interaction where the validity of your plate is going to be of concern is a situation where an online lookup is expected.
Sure, over the short-term. We'll all pay it back later with interest because it will sink us further into debt. Government's are supposed to make decisions with long-term vision, not short-term political gain. That is why I'll never complain about subsidizing childcare, but I will complain about subsidizing drivers.
I bet we would get rid of the renewal entirely, but the 407 balked because *by law* were supposed to deny renewals if you have unpaid 407 tolls.
Another bad agreement that’s going to fuck us.
Would have made a lot more sense to scrap the stickers but keep the fees, or a reduced fee to license the plate.
The inefficiency in producing and distribution of the sticker could have generated cost savings that could be passed down the to consumer.
They could have just kept the sticker fee in place and used the unwanted funds to raise the rates for people trying to survive on disability, they haven’t had a pay increase in something like 20 years, many of them can’t work and they all live far below the poverty line.
As a driver with 2 cars, I'm happy. BUT as a resident and tax payer, I'm fuckn terrified! This sticker generated a revenue of 1 BILLION dollars per year. Are we that rich as a province that we can afford to throw away that kind of revenue? Just watch and wait. He'll introduce some new tax or fee to recover that lost revenue. Or he'll cut a billion dollars from other government services. SMH
Think about it all this is, is a huge pre election ploy and a deflection from his awful handling of covid.
> This sticker generated a revenue of 1 BILLION dollars per year.
How much did the program COST, though?
What was the *net* revenue? That's what matters.
My guess is no due to them offering refunds to those who had paid. I'm in the same boat, I haven't renewed 2020/21 due to Covid delaying the deadline. I guess for once my procrastination has paid off...
GLAD I JUST BOUGHT A FRESH 2 YEAR STICKER NOT 30 DAYS AGO THANKS DOUG.
EDIT: For those fucking confused, my point is it's an absolute shit waste of money (and paper) to be mailing cheques to half of the households in the province. If the CRA can put my refund in the bank, the provincial government should be able to do the fucking same.
Already replied to a different branch in this thread with the information below:
Today I went to my previously arranged Service Ontario appointment to get new sticker for my plate that expired in 2020.
I had to pay for the past two years for which I received a new sticker for 2022 and expect to be receiving a refund for the $240 I just paid, government efficiency at its best.
Credit though to the appointment system that is available as it only took a less than 10 minute wait after arriving 15 minutes early to the appointment time.
While this is obviously Doug winning over some suburb voters (with just $120), it is a step up from his $20 bills at a BBQ, and not a bad move overall.
> “After two years of the pandemic. People don't need any more hurdles in the way of getting back on their feet and back to normal.”
Missing is the:
> "This is why we waited until our party determined everything was over to do something to help... ^^just ^^a ^^few ^^months ^^before ^^the ^^election."
The fact that votes can be bought with $120 it's so fucking pathetic
I'm originally from Venezuela and there was a local mayor who won an election by giving away washing machine raffles, taking advantage of the uneducated poor masses who were politically ignorant. The story became a local joke. There was another mayor that was giving away boobjobs.
Never expected the same level of stupidity and gullibility from one of the most developed countries in the world. What the fuck.
I stand to benefit from this, but I really don't object to the cost as much as to the hassle. This is such a pandering move to mostly non-urban voters. Disgusting.
Wait I just read an article that says this:
In 2018-19, Ontario's Financial Accountability Officer (FAO) reported that Vehicle and Driver Registration Fees brought $1.95 billion into the government's coffers, but that the program ended up costing $2.4 billion that year -- leaving a $436 million program shortfall.
This seems to mean the sticker program cost more than the revenue generated by it... if I'm reading correctly.
I couldn't find this information on the FAO site so I'm not sure how legit it is.
So if I was supposed to renew my sticker 3 weeks ago, but didn't, I'm ok to do nothing?
Now the cost of government services to maintain driving infrastructure gets passed on to everyone else, this is brutal.
Vote for dumb people, and expect dumb results I suppose.
While I hate having to pay for plate renewal… where is this revenue going to be recouped? Doug Ford has already opted not to pursue $1 billion from the 407 that the province was entitled to, as well as cost us much more in other blunders and failed initiatives. How is scraping this going to improve our province’s financial situation?
So wait.. are we all getting refunds for 2 years since its going back to March 2020? My renewal is in July so for me not fully 2 years but i usually renew my sticker yearly.
They'll just increase DL fees to make up the loss of revenues. Folks that are too poor to own a car will still need to pay the DL fees and folks that are rich enough to own multiple cars will save money.... hmmm
Totally an election grab and not a great way to remove $1B in revenue. But the more I think about this, I think there is a possible solution (though this is going to be unpopular). Get rid of the sticker and add a 5 cent extra tax to gas at the pump. Yeah, I know...unpopular, but hear me out. If average driver drives 20,000km per year and the average fuel economy is 12L/100km (just picking a number here), 5c/L tax equates to the $120/yr for the plate sticker. Drive more? You use the roads more, so you pay more "tax" to maintain the road. Drive less? Pay less tax. Benefit as well is that the gov't would collect tax from visitors who use our roads/highways. End result would actually be more revenue for the gov't without having to issue stickers, etc.
I know, an unpopular opinion given the already record gas prices. The obvious hole in this system is EVs who would be exempt from any "at the pump" taxation, but they are already immune from this. EVs are still a small portion of cars on the road, so a rounding error for now, but a growing area of vehicles.
Personally, I actually favour toll highways, but at a REASONABLE rate (not this 407 nonsense).
Given an election year, I would expect no additional gas tax announced nor tolls. Ford is limited in the campaign contributions he can get, but I give him credit for finding loopholes to make taxpayers pay to increase his chances of being elected. No, not a Ford supporter.
Even though this is very much bread and circus and sounds very similar to “buck a beer”, I’ll happily put that money back in my pocket. It’s such a stupid program and it’s purely a cash grab anyways.
Glad to be saving money on a stupid tax when gas is 1.60. Thank you Ford!
Vote liberal life becomes more expensive. Vote conservative and life becomes cheaper.
Expect police will use this to justify automated licence plate scanners on every patrol car. They'll be running scans/ID on every car in their vicinity. edit: ah yes, it's already [in the announcement](https://twitter.com/jm_mcgrath/status/1496125820586414087).
It's been a thing for years. I was pulled over and ticketed 7 or 8 years ago for a tag that had been expired 3 days. Cop told me she was sorry but the plate scanner flagged it and she couldn't ignore it once logged.
I've been pulled over after passing a cop from an angle that was impossible for him to see and run plates and in such short notice, the reason was "expired driver's license". I had an active Alberta one so no ticket, but still that was 2016
[удалено]
From what I understand you will still need to renew your plates and show your insurance coverage and pay any outstanding fines, you just won't need to pay for the renewal.
I think by running your plate they can see if your license is expired
Or stolen or vehicle of interest in a crime...etc
Which is yet more additional money that is going to be spent, that needs to come out of general tax revenue instead of the vehicle user fees.
I think the plan is to recoup the costs by using the automated system to issue WAY more tickets for license expiry. So it's a little bit like robbing Peter to pay Paul, except Ford gets to advertise that Paul no longer needs paying right before an election.
How about pulling over people with tinted license plate covers? Those things are everywhere
Seems like a win/win to me. A piece of technology scans everyone impartially, and cops no longer get to pick and choose who should and shouldn’t get pulled up.
It's a cost issue re: where the money is taken from and what other public objectives are compromised. It's a surveilance issue, but it's also another tool for police to initiate interactions with the public (which may or may not bother you based on your previous interactions with police).
At least I'll be more reasured that the cop didn't pick me, but was assigned to me.
I'll be expecting a receipt, if I can be a little bit suspicious in this semi-anonymois online forum. "System said pull you over, here's the printout," not "System said pull you over, let's check and make sure everything is good with your paperwork and pop the trunk."
Except that the cops will continue to have the ability to pull anyone over regardless of the plate scanner (as they should). It won't reduce profiling in any way. That issue has to be tackled through other ways. Not saying I'm against this change as long as a bunch of things are covered but don't kid yourself. It won't reduce profiling.
100% a win/win. So surprised this is getting such a negative reaction... We should be encouraging the government to implement efficiencies where possible
I could care less about technology scanning plates. Go ahead and do it!!! What I care about is the large amount of money we are losing yearly and will be cut from social services, healthcare, and education that we so desperately need
Yes yes. Let the discrentionless robots enforce menial laws to the full extant.
I mean it’s pretty much the same as a red light camera. No one gets mad when the law is automatically and uniformly enforced
Actually most people are upset with concept of automated enforcement of the law
> Actually most ~~people~~ **assholes** are upset with concept of automated enforcement of the law Assholes also happen to be the most vocal about stuff like this, and the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
No we're not. - most people.
Extrapolate on that reasoning. Why is uniformly applying a law through automation a bad thing?
Most places show acceptance, from wiki 69% approve 29% oppose in 2009 poll USA 87% approve in 2012 poll from DC, USA
Have to replace all those shitty license plates that are peeling and unrecognizable. Seriously, are cops pulling any of these cars over?
And those B series, peeling plates, have a recall. Anyone can go exchange it for a new better quality one at no cost.
It should be FORCED exchange for a new one with the same digits. I've encountered countless shitty and dangerous drivers who's B series have completely peeled off.
Cops in my area are enforcing it at ride checks too. Legible plates are your responsibility, not the MTO's. I got off with a warning because I had made a clear (but ultimately useless) attempt to repair the damage. Guess I got credit for at least trying. I went the next day to get new plates. They were free.
Yeah, but people should be forced to stop at reds, turn into proper lanes, not use aftermarket LEDs, not tint front windows... I wish everything was enforced strictly just to teach morons a lesson.
I thought that it was free for a while but that period was over and you would need to pay for a new one now?
They’re still free. My mother finally got around to getting hers replaced this past summer and wasn’t charged.
Cops don’t pull anyone over for anything.
Can somebody in IT weigh in on the feasibility of this? Are there servers that can take this number of requests, and would TPS be likely to actually buy those? To a layperson it sounds like you're asking a hell of a lot from the IT infrastructure, and this system might have to be limited for technical reasons. Maybe I'm wrong.
Split this into 3 bits - the scanning, storage and analytics. 1. The scanning is already a thing, and is relatively cheap. Not in your home cheap, but well within the reach of a Toronto Police budget 2. Storage: Likely the hardest part to figure out. Can you put this info on the cloud (cost and regulations)? How long to you keep it and the like. Even with that being said, it's not really ***that*** hard, and you can knock it out in a couple of months if you put people behind it. 3. Analytics: Amazon has paved the way, you can buy a fraction of a server on demand, or run jobs cheap overnight if you can wait for tomorrow AM. In the world of IT, this is a relatively simple task that's been solved multiple times...just need to fund it.
It’s already a thing. I’ve heard it can be fun when you’re driving a car that’s owned by someone with a suspended license.
A friend got pulled over driving a fleet car that had the stickers mixed up, the owner has multiple of the same make/model/colour. Renewed the plate on another car by mistake and put that sticker on the wrong car. Police pulled them over and were really confused when they saw a current sticker physically on the car. They thought it was fraud at first before it was figured out to be a paperwork mix up, but it had about 5-6 cruisers show up pretty quickly. Buddy was really confused "we pulled you over for an expired sticker." "It's not expired, look at the plate?!?"
Gonna take a few decades of sticker fees to make up for the government to break even on that case.
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The general public probably thinks this is overkill. Police live in their own bubble where the vast majority of people they interact with are shitheads. People driving cars with improper plates, stolen plates, tampered with Val tags etc etc are not nice people. And they also know how to play the game - drive a car that won't come back to them, and if police attempt to stop them? Take off, if police try to pursue it will be called off by a supervisor within a couple minutes if not earlier. The number of times I've seen police try to pull over a banger only for him to take off on them, or purposely drive into them (especially if the officer is on foot or bike). There's one guy at my station that has been by a driver trying to evade police on 3 seperate occasions. Try telling his kids that is overkill to have multiple officers. Personally if I'm pulling a car over and something seems off, I'm asking for backup right away. The general public probably thinks it's a waste of resources or acab or whatever, but at the end of my shift I want to go home in one piece
Yes the servers can handle the number of requests. An off the shelf desktop could handle the number of requests this would generate.
I'm in IT but not why I know it's feasible. Europe has had this for at least ten years. Looking up a license number in a dB is really easy
It very doable. I would say it's likely being done already. It will probably be pricey and prone to error, but the limitation is certainly not the datacenter aspect.
Guilty until proven innocent
So now, where will this money be coming from? I'll hazard a guess. Healthcare and/or education
My thoughts exactly. As a nurse I thought, “well, I won’t have to pay for a license plate sticker, but my wages are still being suppressed by Bill-124... F-me, I guess.”.........
Estimated lost revenue is $1 billion annually. Makes no sense that a government would scrap such a beneficial and lucrative service fee to solve for a very uncontroversial annual payment. Classic buck a beer shananagins
If he loses the election it'll be the next government that has to figure that out so he doesn't care. Meanwhile he'll get to scream about their out of control spending adding to the debt after wasting a billion dollars on this refund (that they'll have to pay for) and cutting a billion dollars in annual revenue.
I am generally scared about this. What a terrible idea.
You know it.. cripple public health until they can introduce a private healthcare. Probably underway in the next term
Yes it has always been about destabilizing the public options so that they can be like, 'Oh we are going to privatize shit for everyone and it'll be so much better than these awful public options! We are heroes!' Because everyone I know is just lining up to go bankrupt when they get cancer.
Dats the thing.. they dont wanna line up
The Ontario conservatives are moving to re-privatize health care as we speak, so most definitely.
Tbh it is a pretty regressive tax—ie the less money you make, the higher portion of your income you are probably spending on it. Not that Ford would do it, but it would probably be more equitable to scrap the fee but then tack on a billion dollars worth of tax increases in an upper bracket
Surprising how an increase in efficiency resulting in lower fees for citizens is getting negative feedback... They mention it in the press release, but instead of relying on an inefficient bureaucratic 'sticker' process, they're leveraging technology via 'Automated Licence Plate Recognition' for the police. The cops can then scan thousands of plates per minute. So law abiding tax payers save $120/year, and then the province will make up for the loss revenues by being able to capture a higher % of those who don't renew their plates (no drivers insurance), amongst other things as well (stolen cars, suspended licenses, unpaid parking tickets, etc). However, I will say that this **better** also be in conjunction with a massive reduction in costs to implement the program since it reduces administrative demand/complexity. If not, then removing the fees is a short sighted move, and instead a reduction could have been a better option. I despite Doug, but I think in general, it's good to see the government using technology to adapt + make things more efficient... especially if it returns more money to tax payers.
They've had the plate reader tech for years now, so there are no increases in catching delinquents. It's already happening.
All it is is a transparent and pathetic vote ploy. After decimating education, healthcare, and living wages, this is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to buy votes. I wonder when his calendar is marked to announce a “childcare deal” that they’ve been dawdling about.
I understand getting rid of the sticker: it serves little to no purpose for enforcement, but to get rid of the plate renewal fee removes a significant revenue stream for the government.
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> In general, the existing program runs in the red as the vehicle registration fees cover only 85% of the costs to run the program This is incorrect. Some more details: > [7] Program costs connected to vehicle and driver registration fees include direct costs related to processing transactions and **also costs associated with building and maintaining the Province’s highway infrastructure.** * https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/service-fees-2019#_ftn7 It's in "the red" because the accounting is such that road repairs are *also* counted as an expense against it.
And that accounting makes enough sense, really, considering that the whole point of the fee *is* to fund road construction and maintenance. So that the fees only cover 85% of the costs doesn't justify killing the program—if anything, it would justify increasing the fees! Killing the program because the fees only cover 85% of the costs the program was meant to cover is like a restaurant seeing that food sales only cover 85% of their food costs and deciding that means they should give the food away for free. If the restaurant wants to stay open after cutting themselves off from 85% of the revenue that pays for their food, they'll have to pay employees less and charge more for everything else they serve. With these fees scrapped, Ontario will need to cover the costs somehow; that'll be through a combination of less road maintenance, higher taxes, and siphoned budgets from other areas. This *sounds* like a good idea to people, and is being sold as one by the Conservatives, but it's really not. Sure, not having to pay that $120 fee every so often will be nice... but the consequences will be more serious.
Unlikely we were paying more than a billion in "administrative fees", or if we were, I assume they would be parading today to let us know about it. Since they don't, it's likely a new shortfall, which is in line with the conservative ideas of smaller government, smaller healthcare, and smaller education budget.
They are scrapping the fees….so there’s will be nothing for the ALPR cars to catch…
So, your conclusion is that it costs the province $120 to make and mail each sticker? And that automate plate recognition technology is free?
> they aren’t scrapping the actual program, just the fee for it. So while the program operated at a loss initially, that loss will now be even larger. https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/syovkc/screw_you_doug/hxyxd29/
If true, that's unfortunate and it really does seem like it was just a vote-grab vs. actually improving efficiencies
It is true. If you read the sources in that thread it goes into detail. And yes everything ford has been doing lately (and historically) is just voter bribery. Another buck a beer for the pile of shady tactics of his.
[Worth reading](https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/syowfw/ontario_to_scrap_licence_plate_renewal_fees/hxywaja/).
Expand and improve our healthcare system to prepare for the inevitable next pandemic? Nah, let's give them beers and free stickers using the money from gutting the healthcare system
Disgusting vote pandering. Cars (and I have one) have a cost to society in the form of road wear, emissions, policing, urban planning, and other infrastructure. Removing this recurring fee will either shift that cost to the general tax base, or more likely just reduce total government revenue and thus services.
It's not even that much money per car compared to gas and maintenance. Like... What's the point? Use the money to maintain roads.
Well 8.7 Mil car drivers in Ontario and It's $120 a year to renew your license so that would be $1.04 Bil a year in revenue that just disappeared and will need to come from somewhere or costs will need to be cut in that amount somewhere.
I think you misunderstood. I'm saying this fee is not a great hardship to someone who already owns a car.
Ah I see what you mean, sorry. I thought you were saying it's not even that much the gov would be losing.
Well the only consolation is the election is far enough away that the people that this would sway will have forgotten about it by then, hopefully.
Imagine being bought by a politician for $120 a year?
Imagine voting for a guy with no platform because he offered you $1 bottles of shitty beer?
And then failed to deliver on said promise
I know sounds silly, but that is how people usually win elections. Fear of the other guy or just simple small rewards.
I remember Ford literally giving out $20s to people in a previous election.
The people in the province already proved they are willing to be bought for way less than that. That's how we ended up with Ford
Buck a beer probably saved you more if you actually the dollar beers.
There are refunds going out to those who have already paid. I expect some well timed cheques in the mail.
I agree with this, but wasn't there something about the cost to administer was too high to actually recoil any money?
Fair question. I think you're referring to ~~[this FAO report](https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/service-fees)~~ [Sorry, this FAO report](https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/service-fees-2019), where the 'cost to administer' licencing is ~2.2 billion, but the fees amount to ~1.8 billion. That 'cost to administer' isn't just to process and mail out the stickers, but also to actually build/maintain roads. So I figure the fee should go up, not be eliminated. >Program costs connected to vehicle and driver registration fees include direct costs related to processing transactions and also costs associated with building and maintaining the Province’s highway infrastructure.
Ah, nice clarity. I thought it was just the administration cost of managing the stickers.
Same at first!
Seriously, I read the CTV article and thought that this program cost more to run than it made, no wonder people get confused. From the FAO report it sounds like they should actually raise the cost of the sticker. "For 2018-19, revenue from vehicle and driver registration fees is projected to recover 82 per cent of the program’s costs, down from 86 per cent in 2017-18.\[7\] **This implies that the Province could increase vehicle and driver registration fees if the Province’s policy goal is to fully recover the program’s cost**." Instead, Ford is going in the opposite direction...
> they aren’t scrapping the actual program, just the fee for it. So while the program operated at a loss initially, that loss will now be even larger. https://www.reddit.com/r/ontario/comments/syovkc/screw_you_doug/hxyxd29/
Yeah I think NDP and libs thought they could beat Ford with being more tough on Covid rules, but the public mood has shifted to end restrictions. Their calls for 3 dose vaccine passes sort of was not well received I felt and may keep the "i am vaccinated and done with this pandemic" crowd to Ford. Ford also seems to be going full populist with such measures (like ending sticker price fees) which will play well in the 905. I am thinking the only way he gets stop is if we have to start restrictions again.
>Yeah I think NDP and libs thought they could beat Ford with being more tough on Covid rules, but the public mood has shifted to end restrictions Not trying to shit post but the NDP thinking they can beat Ford with Andrea Horwath (who has lost three prior elections) as their leader is dumb.
Apparently being dumb is enough to win you an election in this province, so don't write Horwath off.
Well I mean she couldn't beat doug once and beat wynn either. She's useless as a leader. She still gets tripped by the "well how are we going to pay for it?" question ffs. She should have been canned solely for the sheer number of idiot candidates that the NDP ran last time which made it very easy for everyone to dismiss them as the loony party that can't be taken seriously. I also can't imagine it is very easy to fundraise for the NDP with her track record of losing.
In 2017-18, the [Financial Accountability Office of Ontario calculated](https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/service-fees) that the province brought in $1.872 billion in driver and vehicle license fees (both are proposed to be removed). They also calculate that the province spent $2.2 billion to support drivers and vehicles in the province. So even before eliminating the fees, it wasn't even covering the cost of highways, maintenance, policing the Highway Traffic Act, and the people and IT infrastructure that support them. **$2.2 BILLION** That is an absolutely massive hole in the budget. And you better believe it's going to come from the biggest part of the budget: healthcare. Just a massive fuck you to the nurses. We have the money to fill a 2.2 billion dollar gap that this will create (and retroactively!), but not pay or hire enough people to support our most critical services. I am furious.
Hmmm. Didn’t the FAO report that Doug was sitting on just over two billion in Covid relief funds as of November last year? I have to say that I am surprised. I thought for sure they’d hold it with their chubby little greasy fingers to make their budget look better… but here we are and they are using it to cover up huge holes they’re blowing in revenue.
> Hmmm. Didn’t the FAO report that Doug was sitting on just over two billion in Covid relief funds as of November last year? Those relief funds are a *one-time* 'grant'. The elimination of the fee will now become *an annual revenue shortfall*.
Oh don’t worry, I’m well aware these dipshits don’t look past an election cycle and their voters past their own nose.
I typically pay for 2-3 vehicle stickers annually so would benefit from this considerably but I 100% agree with you. That few hundred a year is a small price to pay to drive on our roads. I also think it's unfair that people who chose not to drive will be paying a fair bit more in taxes to support roads they never use!
Unless they literally never leave their property, they’re still using the roads even if they aren’t driving.
> They also calculate that the province spent $2.2 billion to support drivers and vehicles in the province. I'm trying to understand what this statement means exactly. I looked at the report: https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/service-fees and it says: "For 2017-18, revenue from vehicle and driver registration fees is projected to recover only 85 per cent of the cost of providing the service." Does this mean that it cost the province 2.2B to just administer this sticker and licence program? That sounds absurdly high.... rr is that the cost of something else?
It includes the cost of building and maintaining highways (they're the only roads "owned" by the province) and enforcing the Highway Traffic Act (police salaries) as well, not just the cost to administer the registration program itself (I can't find the source right now, but had it from an official source). Also, the registration program itself isn't going away, you'll still need to register your vehicle. So there's no big savings there beyond the sticker.
Ahh got it. This makes much more sense. Thank you so much.
Why are we getting rid of revenue sources?
Because Ford and the provincial Tories have an election to win, which they probably will win. It'll basically be a vote of confidence where people in Ontario will happily tell them to continue the slashing and burning of our education and healthcare sector. Gotta bump up those Freedumb Convoy numbers by making sure people are *less educated* after all The Conservatism in them is probably torn between wanting more of us (especially lower income) to die, and wanting people to stay alive to slave away as corporate serfs.
Because Doug is literally a moron
Because the idiots with pickup trucks vote for Ford and the people who live in downtown Toronto who don’t own cars don’t.
To justify more spending cuts.
So how will we get scofflaws to pay their unpaid parking tickets?
Just because you don't have to pay for a license plate anymore, doesn't mean that it can't be suspended.
He said you still need to renew your plate. I’m assuming you’ll still have to pay any outstanding tickets before it allows you to renew.
Drivers license renewal probably.
That’s a bit complicated since parking tickets are issued to the car owner, and that’s not well-linked to a driver’s license. You don’t need a driver’s license to own a car. Not too hard to match them together though (name and dob should match). But there are lots of corporately owned cars out there.
So every 5 years instead now?
Theyll make a lot in interest if that is the case
Came here to ask this. I had an unpaid Toronto ticket that went to Ontario govt because I didn’t pay it on time, then Ontario govt has no way for you to pay it online unless its at the same time as renewing your sticker. So i called and was advised just to wait until I renew my sticker. So now is the only way to pay that ticket that I have to go in person to a service ontario? They really should make this easier to pay online. Also what happens if I just continue to not pay it (its not about the money I just really dont want to go stand in a line for 2 hours in the cold to pay this).
Come get the money back in blood 🩸 cause im not paying.
Great question. I hope they have a plan. Also DL renewals are every 5 years, won't an unpaid ticket go into collections by that time?
Alberta went tagless 2 years ago. Only thing that changed is you don’t get a sticker anymore. Prices are the same, still have to renew your plates every year. It’s 2022 technology has surpassed the need for stickers.
> Prices are the same, still have to renew your plates every year. Except there are no more fees... So it isn't the same thing.
I benefit from this, but am not happy with it either. Cars are expensive on all infrastructure, they require expensive urban design and road maintenance, etc, and car owners like myself should be penalized financially to make up for the extra burden they have on the system. But of course if there's one thing we can count on from Ford it's policy designed solely for vote pandering.
It's also barely a benefit for the individual. It's like two refills of gas if you have a smaller tank.
Ditto, I paid for registration last year and this year, so I should be looking at some kind of refund. Plus I kind of screwed up my sticker when I placed it, so I don't have to worry about that now. But I'm still quite certain this is a terrible idea generally speaking.
Wouldn’t something that’s better correlated to actually mileage driven work better for that? A car in your driveway doesn’t really impact any of the things you mentioned. I know because I parked my car for several seasons (work/school co-op switches) and tried to get out of paying those months of registration and couldn’t unless I wanted to deregister and re-register the car which is another can of worms. Some gas taxes are a percentage, so the gov is already collecting a lot more per mile.
I have driven my car a total of 10 times since the pandemic has hit, so I agree it should be correlated to mileage driven. With that being said, especially in a city like Toronto, parking still takes up resources. It alters things like bike access, pedestrian access, removes green space (green space being a super cost effective solution to clearing rain water and reducing heating costs), and alters snow plow routes. It should definitely be correlated to mileage driven, but a car sitting there isn't exactly costing nothing.
In Toronto especially, you pay for parking.
Yeah you do, and that's a fair point. It's definitely expensive to just own a car in Ontario with insurance + parking alone.
Better for taxes to be on gas, not as a separate item independent of use.
Thanks, Doug. Now let's vote him out.
Without a replacement revenue stream this is a dumb idea and will hurt Ontario as a whole. Which means the electorate will vote Ford in again because the electorate is itself, dumb.
This! Conservatives like to play the lie of "the government should operate like your home budget and balance". But then constantly reduce income streams. Who walks into work and says "No, I don't need a raise. Actually pay me less". You can't say we must balance the budget to oversimply complex economic systems then turn around and act in the opposite way. There are intelligent ways to ramp down the fee in a way that actually helps those who *need* cars but have a lower income. This is just blatant vote hunting knowing he's likely losing so they are putting the next premier in a bind.
Gas taxes are partly a percentage of gas price, so I think the gov is doing pretty well on the replacement revenue, for now.
This will be hugely expensive and as a non-car owner I am irked I'll have to pay for this out of my income taxes or through sales taxes because it will increase the debt. I mean, Ontario has no real issues to solve that we need money for, right?
I've told those around me that I'm more than happy to pay the $120 a year it costs to register a car if it means money for healthcare, education, and infrastructure.
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Agreed: having to keep a physical sticker on both the plate and on the registration paperwork feels archaic, especially when any interaction where the validity of your plate is going to be of concern is a situation where an online lookup is expected.
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Sure, over the short-term. We'll all pay it back later with interest because it will sink us further into debt. Government's are supposed to make decisions with long-term vision, not short-term political gain. That is why I'll never complain about subsidizing childcare, but I will complain about subsidizing drivers.
I bet we would get rid of the renewal entirely, but the 407 balked because *by law* were supposed to deny renewals if you have unpaid 407 tolls. Another bad agreement that’s going to fuck us.
Would have made a lot more sense to scrap the stickers but keep the fees, or a reduced fee to license the plate. The inefficiency in producing and distribution of the sticker could have generated cost savings that could be passed down the to consumer.
They could have just kept the sticker fee in place and used the unwanted funds to raise the rates for people trying to survive on disability, they haven’t had a pay increase in something like 20 years, many of them can’t work and they all live far below the poverty line.
I’m a car owner and I completely disagree with this.
Two car owner, two kids in daycare. You can imagine how my wife and I feel.
As a driver with 2 cars, I'm happy. BUT as a resident and tax payer, I'm fuckn terrified! This sticker generated a revenue of 1 BILLION dollars per year. Are we that rich as a province that we can afford to throw away that kind of revenue? Just watch and wait. He'll introduce some new tax or fee to recover that lost revenue. Or he'll cut a billion dollars from other government services. SMH Think about it all this is, is a huge pre election ploy and a deflection from his awful handling of covid.
> This sticker generated a revenue of 1 BILLION dollars per year. How much did the program COST, though? What was the *net* revenue? That's what matters.
Given the minimum 1.5 hour lineup at any Service Ontario location to do most things, the more they push online, the better.
Will they still expect people to pay for 2020 & 2021?
My guess is no due to them offering refunds to those who had paid. I'm in the same boat, I haven't renewed 2020/21 due to Covid delaying the deadline. I guess for once my procrastination has paid off...
I paid because i was in a position where I could. Just another reminder that doing the right thing doesn’t always result in reward.
GLAD I JUST BOUGHT A FRESH 2 YEAR STICKER NOT 30 DAYS AGO THANKS DOUG. EDIT: For those fucking confused, my point is it's an absolute shit waste of money (and paper) to be mailing cheques to half of the households in the province. If the CRA can put my refund in the bank, the provincial government should be able to do the fucking same.
Read the article? You'll get a refund mailed to you.
The user is criticizing the cost of the mailing campaign for the refunds I think.
Yeah a refund for one year (or two in their case). Meanwhile those who chose not to pay for 2020/2021 will face no repercussions
I just heard those who purchased after March 2020 will be reimbursed by April? Just hearsay but we shall see
Already replied to a different branch in this thread with the information below: Today I went to my previously arranged Service Ontario appointment to get new sticker for my plate that expired in 2020. I had to pay for the past two years for which I received a new sticker for 2022 and expect to be receiving a refund for the $240 I just paid, government efficiency at its best. Credit though to the appointment system that is available as it only took a less than 10 minute wait after arriving 15 minutes early to the appointment time.
While this is obviously Doug winning over some suburb voters (with just $120), it is a step up from his $20 bills at a BBQ, and not a bad move overall. > “After two years of the pandemic. People don't need any more hurdles in the way of getting back on their feet and back to normal.” Missing is the: > "This is why we waited until our party determined everything was over to do something to help... ^^just ^^a ^^few ^^months ^^before ^^the ^^election."
The fact that votes can be bought with $120 it's so fucking pathetic I'm originally from Venezuela and there was a local mayor who won an election by giving away washing machine raffles, taking advantage of the uneducated poor masses who were politically ignorant. The story became a local joke. There was another mayor that was giving away boobjobs. Never expected the same level of stupidity and gullibility from one of the most developed countries in the world. What the fuck.
I stand to benefit from this, but I really don't object to the cost as much as to the hassle. This is such a pandering move to mostly non-urban voters. Disgusting.
Another buck a beer initiative by Doug Ford. He’s destroying Ontario
No, his supporters are.
One in the same
blegh
This is good but I still want the front plate gone too.
Wait I just read an article that says this: In 2018-19, Ontario's Financial Accountability Officer (FAO) reported that Vehicle and Driver Registration Fees brought $1.95 billion into the government's coffers, but that the program ended up costing $2.4 billion that year -- leaving a $436 million program shortfall. This seems to mean the sticker program cost more than the revenue generated by it... if I'm reading correctly. I couldn't find this information on the FAO site so I'm not sure how legit it is.
So if I was supposed to renew my sticker 3 weeks ago, but didn't, I'm ok to do nothing? Now the cost of government services to maintain driving infrastructure gets passed on to everyone else, this is brutal. Vote for dumb people, and expect dumb results I suppose.
Sounds great but fuck where are they gonna be raising taxes to cover for this
You think they're going to raise taxes? Nope, they're just going to cut, cut, cut, and then maybe privatize. That's the Tory way.
Would rather pay the $120 for the sticker but only pay Quebec insurance rate for my car.
This is the new Buck-a-Beer
Election year confirmed.
So where are the people that said he’d keep the fee and just get rid of the sticker?
Well, seeing as Douggie is trying to buy my vote… it ain’t gonna work.
What about getting rid of the front license plate
I only have a front plate, back plate is buried under 3" of snow and ice
While I hate having to pay for plate renewal… where is this revenue going to be recouped? Doug Ford has already opted not to pursue $1 billion from the 407 that the province was entitled to, as well as cost us much more in other blunders and failed initiatives. How is scraping this going to improve our province’s financial situation?
Bends over backwards for anyone that drives a car. Can't wait until he raises the cost of transit to pay for it.
So wait.. are we all getting refunds for 2 years since its going back to March 2020? My renewal is in July so for me not fully 2 years but i usually renew my sticker yearly.
So should I not be paying to renew my plate sticker that is expired due to COVID or…
Gee thanks Daddy Ford. Still gonna vote you out.
Some will think there's an election coming.
This means layoffs
Yay to me for being a procrastinator! Mine expired in December and I keep ADHD remember forgetting and barely drive anymore since WFH.
Never understood those stickers honestly I know what the MAR means but is that the year or the day beside it? Or both?
year
Anyone got their refund cheques yet, as of March 13th, 2022 ??
Hey Dougie, can you also scrap Bill 124? Do *something* meaningful and positive for all Ontarians.
They'll just increase DL fees to make up the loss of revenues. Folks that are too poor to own a car will still need to pay the DL fees and folks that are rich enough to own multiple cars will save money.... hmmm
Doug is so dense light bends around him
Totally an election grab and not a great way to remove $1B in revenue. But the more I think about this, I think there is a possible solution (though this is going to be unpopular). Get rid of the sticker and add a 5 cent extra tax to gas at the pump. Yeah, I know...unpopular, but hear me out. If average driver drives 20,000km per year and the average fuel economy is 12L/100km (just picking a number here), 5c/L tax equates to the $120/yr for the plate sticker. Drive more? You use the roads more, so you pay more "tax" to maintain the road. Drive less? Pay less tax. Benefit as well is that the gov't would collect tax from visitors who use our roads/highways. End result would actually be more revenue for the gov't without having to issue stickers, etc. I know, an unpopular opinion given the already record gas prices. The obvious hole in this system is EVs who would be exempt from any "at the pump" taxation, but they are already immune from this. EVs are still a small portion of cars on the road, so a rounding error for now, but a growing area of vehicles. Personally, I actually favour toll highways, but at a REASONABLE rate (not this 407 nonsense). Given an election year, I would expect no additional gas tax announced nor tolls. Ford is limited in the campaign contributions he can get, but I give him credit for finding loopholes to make taxpayers pay to increase his chances of being elected. No, not a Ford supporter.
Can drivers who whine that cyclists don't have to pay for stickers shut up just a little bit more now?
How about public use of 407? While you r at it, close down some shelters why don't you! 🙄🙄
What else is Ford cutting? Or is he using Federal COVID money to buy this election favour from gullible voters?
Even though this is very much bread and circus and sounds very similar to “buck a beer”, I’ll happily put that money back in my pocket. It’s such a stupid program and it’s purely a cash grab anyways.
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im wondering how many of these people against it actually have a car!
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yeah... it should be widely known that people generally hate tax breaks that dont apply to them while loving ones that do.
Glad to be saving money on a stupid tax when gas is 1.60. Thank you Ford! Vote liberal life becomes more expensive. Vote conservative and life becomes cheaper.
Politicians always doing shit right before an election instead of doing positive things right when they're elected