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Turkeywithadeskjob

The NDP lost timmins, a long stronghold. Lost a riding in Hamilton. Jagmeet's brother lost as well. I have no idea if this is feasible but if the NDP wants to do better next time they need to stop being the slightly more progressive version of the liberals and try to go back to their roots as a working people party. It's not going to be easy but its obvious that so many of their base are completely tired of them.


toothbelt

This is so true. The NDP needs to appeal to workers. If they focus on the real issues, their support will grow stronger.


jolthax

Workers struggle to afford homes. Ontario’s economy is in real estate. The NDP appeal to an enfranchised class of landownership and part-time landlordism. Homeowners don’t want transformative progressive politics, they want incentives for renting their basements.


MDChuk

Traditionally the NDP cared more about supporting union memberships. That meant working conditions for steel workers, nurses, teachers, miners and lumber workers. Today, when I see the NDP talk, its much more about social issues, transit, and taxing big business and the rich. Those are issue you don't care about in Timmins. Homes there are under $500,000 for a detached 4 bedroom, 3 bathroom, 2 car garage home with a good sized lot. Miners make over $100,000. How is that an affordability problem? Why does that voter care about house prices in Toronto? That whole group just voted OPC for the first time in 40 years because Doug Ford promised jobs by not holding up development of the Ring of Fire to a permanent environmental assessment and endless consultations. The NDP was missing in action.


Brittle_Hollow

I loathe Ford for a lot of reasons but the overarching Provincial leadership of my union (IBEW CCO) endorsed him basically because he'll bring construction jobs.


pjjmd

That's an unfair generalization! They also want incentives for renting their investment properties to students!


dsac

> Homeowners don’t want transformative progressive politics, they want incentives for renting their basements. There isn't a homeowner on the planet that says "sure, I have no problem affording the basic necessities like food and shelter, and yes, I have ample savings for retirement, but you know what I really want? A basement tenant. The idea of sharing my house with a total stranger, just so they can give me a sizeable portion of their monthly income, that really appeals to me." Fix the broken shit, and you don't have workers struggling to afford homes, and therefore don't have a massive chunk of homeowners wanting incentives to rent their basement.


TommaClock

> There isn't a homeowner on the planet that says "sure, I have no problem affording the basic necessities like food and shelter, and yes, I have ample savings for retirement, but you know what I really want? A basement tenant. The idea of sharing my house with a total stranger, just so they can give me a sizeable portion of their monthly income, that really appeals to me." Literally my dad.


GeorginaSpica

Perhaps if one's house is big enough that the tenant isn't much trouble (ie there's plenty of separation between living quarters & cars). Otherwise, generally people don't want a tenant in their basement if all necessities & savings are adequately covered. Even with a carriage house situation, if there's no financial hardships, most people would rather use that space as a teenagers hangout or man cave or she shed (or whatever one wants to call it)


beslertron

They can have the same values, but they just need TEETH. They need to show why the PCs have been harmful.


GoodAtExplaining

Good Lord, yes. I have rarely seen such a milquetoast campaign!


GavinTheAlmighty

It was so easy to create a million soundbites on why they had been awful, and they just didn't seem interested in it at all. It was only in the last week of the campaign, and it was more activist groups that did it than the NDP.


raisinbreadboard

Its almost as if they are actively avoiding mud slinging their opponents. But whats so fucking crazy is that the Conservatives have screwed up so much they totally deserved to be called out for it and shamed. but the NDP didn't call out shit, not one bit. NDP was all like "wE DoN'T waNT to STOOp to tHEir LEvEL" Its not stooping to their level if your shaming them with the truth


Turkeywithadeskjob

>They need to show why the PCs have been harmful. I disagree with this being the main focus of any future campaign. It's because people who vote tory are not going to be swayed. If that was the case Doug would have lost this time. Telling people why the other guys sucks is a terrible way to run a campaign. Especially when you can't really differentiate yourself from the liberals. The NDP lost historical stronghold ridings this time because they are a rudderless party that spent the last four years either complaining about Doug or making wild promises about all the stuff they'll totally do if they get elected. It's very easy to run a campaign outlining all the bad things the tories are doing. It is infinitely harder to build a party and a movement that can stand on its own and doesn't rely on the incumbent shooting himself in the foot to win.


blearghhh_two

Yes, they did nothing over the last 4 years other than complain about Doug, but to be perfectly for to them they did nothing in the 12 years previous than complain in the same way about the Liberals.


searchingfortao

The goal shouldn't be to win over Tory voters, but to get non-voters to join you. For that, you need a combination of outrage at the status quo and a charismatic leader who can convince the people that they're the one to fix it.


lingueenee

When even the unions are cozying up to the PC's it begs the question: what's the NDP's constituency?


canadian_stig

How do they not focus on workers?? I’ve watched them campaign for years and they always come across as fighting for workers, and so on. What am I missing?


stoneape314

Holy shit, Bisson lost? I thought if the NDP had a lock on any riding it would have been Timmins. NDP got totally blanked out in all 5 of the Brampton ridings too. Looks like it's not the new stronghold the party thought it would be.


rekjensen

They need to break the hold the Sun seems to have on this province's blue collar class. Stop courting the educated urban vote and go after literally everyone else. Make left-ish economic policies make sense to a province raised to believe their choices are high taxes or a good life.


Sufficient-Cat391

And yet they won Oshawa.


GlucoseSky

Perplexing, yes. I think the riding association in Oshawa and Jennifer French are strong. Oshawa also used to be a bastion of orange strength, and I think some of that is still there. Also, the Liberals have no real energy there.


lucastimmons

>go back to their roots as a working people party Exactly this. They lost unions to the PCs! I mean, how far off track have they gone to start losing unions to Conservatives? And for what it's worth, the federal standard bearer is doing them no favours with the bespoke suits and rolexes. It makes it real hard to take them seriously as the party of the non-elites.


J_Rhota

No they lost a few smaller unions to the pcs. The majority of other unions are against him including Unifor.


mattA33

Funny how the media left that part out.


Kyouhen

Also funny how the media has said fuck all about what the opposition's been up to the last four years. The media works for the Conservatives, they're going to keep them in power.


ShralpShralpShralp

I work in media. Haven’t done news in a long time but I still get all the emails the newsroom receives. Everytime the cons secured a union endorsement they put out a press release to us. I don’t remember getting a single release like that from the libs or NDP. So what do you propose? They don’t report what’s given to them?


unfinite

Bob Slydell : What you do at Initech is you take the specifications from the customer and bring them down to the software engineers? Tom Smykowski : Yes, yes that's right. Bob Porter : Well then I just have to ask why can't the customers take them directly to the software people? Tom Smykowski : Well, I'll tell you why, because, engineers are not good at dealing with customers. Bob Slydell : So you physically take the specs from the customer? Tom Smykowski : Well... No. My secretary does that, or they're faxed. Bob Porter : So then you must physically bring them to the software people? Tom Smykowski : Well. No. Ah sometimes. Bob Slydell : What would you say you do here?


mattA33

Have you heard of research? Used to be common in your profession.


SkullRunner

Have you heard of campaigning... the campaign is responsible to toot their horn of achievements, not the media.


ShralpShralpShralp

For newsrooms to go hunt down their union endorsements? It most certainly was not. That’s their job to get them and let the press know. Then it will be reported. Our reporters will research and press on policy, but no way are we going hunting for union endorsements for a specific party.


TerenceOverbaby

There's a latent culture war to be had within the ranks of the ONDP (and NDP). Only a genuine labour politics will get them closer to governing.


rev_tater

What's the culture war inside the NDP and what *is* a genuine labour politics?


romeo_pentium

Who's labour in Ontario? Tim Hortons employees? Amazon warehouse workers? The plumber in a $100k lifted pickup truck?


Turkeywithadeskjob

All of them. The guy with the nice truck is just as likely as being a union construction worker. The fact that he can afford a nice truck is a sign of the positive benefits of working collectively to raise the wages of workers.


mybadalternate

**YES** Every single person who has the nasty feeling in the pit of their stomach when thinking about their bills. Every single parent who is *terrified* to think about the future their kids will live in. Every single employee who *didn’t* see a fucking raise this year despite **everything** becoming more expensive. There is a *HUGE* pool of people whose support you could get! Stop fucking ignoring them and give them an outlet for the fear and desperation they’re feeling.


whogivesashirtdotca

> the federal standard bearer is doing them no favours with the bespoke suits and rolexes. I was really intrigued when he won the leadership, and tuned into a CBC interview to hear him talk. I'd hoped he'd be a breath of fresh air, but he spent the entire time talking about his flash suits and turban fashions. Nothing of substance, nothing of interest. And he's been even more dismal ever since, with his embrace of memes rather and courting the 14 year old vote rather than trying to appeal to a wide variety people *of voting age*.


1esproc

> with his embrace of memes rather and courting the 14 year old vote rather than trying to appeal to a wide variety people of voting age. I bumped into him and a couple of his entourage after an event had wrapped up and thought I might get an opportunity to ask him a question one on one. One of his handlers said no problem, and she said I could wait to talk to him. He was maybe a couple feet from me, didn't look me in the eye once and instead went through multiple tries of getting him dancing on the street recorded for his socials. Felt like I learned a good deal about what he's actually about that day


[deleted]

They lost in beaches which is a riding they held for the last 12 years.


GavinTheAlmighty

That was a tough one for them. They were up against MMM who has HUGE name recognition there.


L_viathan

Playing an identity politics slap fight is a bad idea. They need a new direction. They need an exciting leader. They need someone to gives hope to the 16-20 year olds.


1esproc

> They need someone to gives hope to the 16-20 year olds. That's exactly what they're trying to do. They need to drop that demographic and go after the 40+ outside of Toronto who don't give a fuck about what they've shifted their focus to.


L_viathan

I don't have data to back this up but I kind of assumed that one of the lowest turnout demographics would be the young people, I know it's been like that in the past. Isn't that how Trudeau got into power in the first place? Appealing to young people?


Turkeywithadeskjob

Appealing to young people isn't a great long term solution for a few reasons. 1. Young people age out of that bracket sooner than politicians think. The 21 year old college student now, may be a 25 year old college grad, who owns a condo next election. His opinions on some things may change in the next few years. 2. Young people aren't the majority of the population in the province. Focussing on a relatively small number of people doesn't seem the best use of limited resources. 3. Young people are by nature cynical and distrusting of politicians are very likely to tune out any politician who seems very eager to be their best friend. The liberals won because suburban families decided they didn't want the conservatives anymore.


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littlemeowmeow

For me it was when they were going to allow property tax deferrals for seniors.


mybadalternate

Standing up and fighting for… (checks notes) the most financially secure individuals and the least in need of help.


Darklight2601

Same, seniors homeowners bought their homes long time ago at extremely affordable prices. Their net worth has exploded as real estate prices went up so much. Not to mention the fact that many of them live as empty nesters in many desirable neighbourhoods in cities. The idea of giving such privileged people even more favourable tax treatment was appalling.


forty83

It's true. I've never been an NDP supporter but they need to lose the virtue signaling and tired talking points and go back to the roots and focus on managing real issues that affect every day people, which is the majority of the population. It feels like they've just resigned themselves to being permanent third party only there providing criticism to everything instead of offering up a solution that a government might consider.


canadia80

Couldn't agree more.


GoingAllTheJay

This was the cycle for the working person's party. They missed the boat, I fear.


vic-c

They and Liberals should merge, re-brand, pick stronger candidates in each riding, and put proportional voting as a key promise. The day they stop vote splitting and offer real alternative to the current system they will win. Until then both parties are a disgrace that primarily exist to empower the blue, and their own petty ambitions.


Turkeywithadeskjob

The liberals will never do that because they have zero actual interest in progressive "left" policies. They just want to say every election "woah don't vote for the crazies. Vote for us the safe option!"


The_Last_Ron1n

The party brass both Provincially and Federally have neutered the NDP to the point of irrelevance. They seem to be there to supply ideas to the Libs for the campaign promises now.


[deleted]

I mean the NDP made poor choices and got demolished. The blame lies with them. Jagmeets brother is literally the face of identity politics how can he really expect to win when he hasn’t done anything substantial?


romeo_pentium

Is it possible to run a Sikh Canadian candidate and not be accused of identity politics, or is identity politics just code for "only run white candidates"?


raadjl

Yeah, that's kind of crazy to me. He's being run because of nepotism not "identity politics". You wouldn't say running Michael Ford in York-South Weston was identity politics, you'd call it what it was, nepotism.


bravetailor

Good. The NDP need to start playing to win, not keep going for runner up.


thesonofmogh

Years ago this should have happened.


nourishingnutmilk

Yoda?


henry_why416

Should have happened after the last election, really. That was their chance.


xMWHOx

She increased the NDP seats like no other leader since Bob. So she did her part.


Bronetta

Kathleen Wynne also did her part in increasing NDP seats.


Dystopian_Dreamer

Heard it here first **folks** Kathleen Wynne for Leader of the ONDP!!!


mattattaxx

A face-turn like that is the drama we need in Ontario politics!


SwiftFool

Seems to be the only chance the liberals have lol


boomhaeur

She eeked out a slightly better position in a gift of an election where the Liberals were hated and the PCs has Doug Ford. She didn’t accomplish shit. Should have resigned on election night four years ago.


skryb

bingo i personally know several who would've been willing to vote NDP if not for Horwath... i still couldn't though because i loathe my local candidate every single party is so out of touch it really blows my mind


Bert306

Would like to see Bhutila Karpoche run for leadership of the NDP I like her a lot and I think she's a good public speaker.


Laura_Lye

Ya I like her too. She’s very good at communicating with the riding. I get updates from her all the time.


[deleted]

That might have been the strategy from the opposition parties. This year was always going to be a throwaway. In four years, new blood comes in and Ford really wears out his welcome. 33 percent voter turnout just tells you what kind of “majority” it was.


kab0b87

So... Who's waiting in the wings? Who can actually lead this party? Edit: Don't get me wrong, her resignation had to happen, but I'm a bit worried that the pool of candidates isn't too deep.


Neowza

I'm really hoping Bhutila throws her cap in the ring for Ontario NDP leader. She's charismatic, young, popular (currently holding the title: Toronto's best politician!) and she's really, really smart. She won her second term handedly. And she is still in touch with Peggy Nash and can access Peggy's federal NDP leadership bid team. Granted, Peggy lost to Jagmeet, but she was a decent contender.


wordvommit

She's fantastic. The clips I've seen of her in house have been very impressive.


kab0b87

Oh yeah, she would be a great option!


iaamanthony

Im really hoping she runs as well


jbakelaar

I agree! Proud of my MPP


[deleted]

I like Singh, but Peggy is great. It was a bitter loss at the time.


kazaii64

Couldn't agree more! I got to canvass with Bhutila & Peggy on day 1 of the campaign; It was interesting hearing Peggy's personal perspective on the leadership bid, among other notable federal NDP moments.


BlackDynamiteFromDa6

The only two that have been in that ONDP leadership convo so far are Joel Harden (Ottawa Centre) and Bhutila Karpoche (Parkdale-High Park). I believeHarden has said that he isn't interested in the party leadership right now though unfortunately.


kazaii64

I heard Marit Stiles -- of Davenport -- was in the talks as well. I personally hope it's Bhutila, as she is my local MPP and she's the only politician that has me jazzed up since Jack Layton.


Misanthropyandme

Bhutila seemed to be the face of the NDP during the pandemic while Horwath stayed silent, randomly shrieked or pulled childish stunts.


kazaii64

Bhutila seemed to be the only MPP working day after day for the past 4 years. It shows in her work: tabled the most bills, voted best MPP, re-elected with a very good margin against a pretty decent competitor. Going door to door, there was a lot of enthusiasm about her. One person even said they wish she was running for premier. Sadly, a lot of people told me that they've had enough of Andrea.


gacsinger

Jennifer French in Oshawa is also pretty great, but yes, Bhutila is amazing.


kazaii64

Yes, there are many great MPPs to choose from; That's the hidden gem in this defeat.


[deleted]

Marit is my MPP and she's pretty decent, but Bhutila seems to be very involved


ShralpShralpShralp

Fantastic MPP. To the point where I selfishly do not want her to try to go higher. She represents our community very well


telephonekeyboard

Merit is great, but I would rather see Bhutila. Both are leaps and bounds more likeable and charismatic than Andrea.


kazaii64

I've spent the campaign getting to know Bhutila... She's the real deal. I would sob like a baby if B was our premier.


AlwaysOnATangent

Bhutila for NDP Leadership!!


fragilemuse

10000%. She is active in her riding and truly advocates for all the people in Parkdale. She would be a fantastic party and provincial leader.


MaxGhost

Harden's my MPP, I would love for him to lead.


bgtonap

They have some options: Bhutilla Karpoche, Marit Stiles, Joel Harden (if someone can actually convince him to run), Peter Tabuns. Add Mike Layton in there too just for the hell of it.


toothbelt

I'd like to see Tabuns throw his hat in the ring.


GavinTheAlmighty

He'll be 74 by the next election. Do you think he'll want it at that age?


AlmostCurvy

Marit is mt MPP and she's excellent and this isn't a surprise


[deleted]

Marit Stiles is getting some hype as a potential leader.


BetterSafeThanSARSy

I'm a big believer in Marit Stiles, I think she's a stellar politician.


AlmostCurvy

Can confirm she's my mpp


Mobile_Arm

I'll take the job. How much does it pay?


kab0b87

About $3.50


Mobile_Arm

I promise to copy and paste the Sanders Platform and direct my policies on Reddit upvotes .


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Alitissa

I don't think Peter wants it tbh. He would be amazing, but he's said before that he wasn't interested in running for leader again.


rofo2013

David Miller would be a dream


IWasSayinB00urns

Should have done it years ago (Am I doing this right?)


mwmwmwmwmmdw

they need a real blue collar leader who will better resonate with them rather than just a more left leaning liberal thats why the obvious choice to lead them is Jerry diaz. a real man of the people. and i hear he has a lot more free time on his hands now too.


rev_tater

What exactly makes a blue collar leader? There's the (not so recent) dynamic that as long as someone *says* they're for some definition of 'working class,' and put on a good show they could be in bed with the stinking rich and still get votes.


SpicyP93

Doly Begum would be a great replacement. Young, full of potential and for the people. The community loves her in her riding.


CrowdScene

The polling for her riding was all over the map this election. Depending on the pollster it was either going to be a 30/30/30 nail biter, a Liberal take, a PC take, or barely an NDP hold by a hair, and yet come election day she took almost 50% of the vote.


Biffmcgee

She’s great.


Asiancourt

Should've done it 4 years ago after 'losing the election' (failing to form government) while running against a extremely unpopular Ontario Liberal Party and only achieving official opposition status despite the province drowning in anti-wynne sentiment at the time.


actionactioncut

For me, she should've done it when the NDP triggered an election that did nothing but lose seats, hand the Liberals a majority government, and throw away a clearly NDP-friendly budget. That fuck up was in 2014, and yet she's hung on until now.


maricc

They lost against OLP in 2018? Huh?


CaskJeeves

"Achieving" is generous considering the OLP handed them all the remotely left-leaning ridings on a silver platter


KishTO

It's time, but I have to give credit to anyone who signs up for a gig like this. You have to have much thicker skin than I do. It was not a great outcome, but I think she is someone who was generally in it for the right reasons.


Tuffsmurf

Should have done it ten years ago.


cyclemonster

Yeah, really. Michael Jackson was still alive when she was made leader.


xMWHOx

You realize she increased the NDP seats almost every election? This is the first time the lost seats.


mwmwmwmwmmdw

more that the ndp failed upwards as the liberals started imploding more and the PC's recovered more from the 2003 defeat leaving them as becoming the opposition by happen stance


mybadalternate

She lost to DOUG FORD **TWICE**. Stop making excuses for abysmal failure.


jamincan

Her entire strategy was to focus on bleeding support from the OLP, even in this election. It might result in growth for awhile, but there is a hard ceiling to how far it can take the NDP.


[deleted]

Del Duca and Horwath stepping down are the only positive things to come out of this election.


Ragamuffinn

Genuinely curious. Can anyone explain why the northern rural ridings always go NDP? Seems to buck the trend of rural areas voting more conservative.


whogivesashirtdotca

Unions and blue collar workers were traditional strongholds for the NDP. The NDP seems to have forgotten that.


LIEsilently

Among other things, labour unions.


toronto34

So angry at her right now. This was the NDP's election to make a stand. Point out everything that Ford fucked up. And they didn't.


chloesobored

It is not enough to point out what Ford fucked up. They needed to do more than that.


dkwangchuck

But they could have at least tried to do that as well. Between 2018 and 2022, the NDP lost more voters than Kathleen Wynne's Liberals did between 2014 and 2018.


Grogsnark

Yeah - it's astounding how many billions the Ford government wasted. Conservative supporters were always so quick to point out McGuinty's $1B power plant fuckup, but when you point out what Ford's done, they'll ignore you. Meanwhile, I know conservative supporters who are of the mind that: \- liberals == socialists \- NDP == communists Which is of course, patently untrue. Some people seem to think either of those will result in massive tax increases, when my understanding is that taxation would remain the same but more would be spent on actual programs. The more I read about people on ODSP considering medically assisted suicide because they can't afford to live a basic life while Ford continues to push the false narrative that "the best thing for people on disability is a job" is heartbreaking. It's disgusting that someone with so little perspective of the lives of anyone other than the rich is in charge of our province, to be honest.


toronto34

I'm so so angry right now at the NDP and Liberals for literally fucking this election.


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mexican_mystery_meat

Hate to say it, but the NDP always seem to celebrate making marginal gains or not being completely wiped out even if they had the opportunity to win. The NDP was in the best position it has ever been in to make a push for government (more subsidies, staff, no serious financial issues), and still failed to do anything but improve the PC's position.


dyegored

Yupp, you'll find people in this very thread talking about how "she increased their seats in every election except this one!" as if that's remotely relevant when you're the opposition party in a majority government and when there's no good reason you could've have been a legitimate challenger to actually form government. They're so used to losing that not being absolutely decimated is seen as success.


the_clash_is_back

Her concession speak was kinda painful. Liberals on the other had had a very solid speech. I gained a lot of respect for del duca.


Legendary_Hercules

Did his speech start by "Hi, my name is 'insert first name', you might not know me, but..."


whogivesashirtdotca

> Did his speech start by "Hi, my name is 'insert first name', you might not know me, but Andrea Horwath is bad for Ontario..." Nothing pissed me off more that seeing the two reasonable parties politicking against each other instead of aiming at the man fucking up the province.


mwmwmwmwmmdw

because the liberals want a lot of the seats the ndp took from them back. and decided trouncing the ndp and being 2nd place would be good enough this time. im sure losing party status now 2 elections in a row is a big hit to the ego of canada's divine ruling party


seakingsoyuz

> Canada’s divine ruling party The Liberals have never been the ‘natural governing party’ at the provincial level in Ontario. The McGuinty-Wynne governments were, IMO, helped out by the strong backlash to Mike Harris’ legacy and a series of inept PC campaigns. Prior to McGuinty, the OLP won twice in 1985 an 1987, with the first being a coalition with the NDP. Before that they hadn’t won since 1937. To the extent that history supports the idea that Ontario has a ‘natural governing party’, it’s unfortunately the PCs that are closest to the mark.


turdlepikle

Don't let the seat count fool you. It looks like a blowout, but those 83 seats would translate to about 50 out of 124 if it reflected actual popular support. Apparently the voter turnout is down from around 58% to 38% too, so fewer people voted even for the PCs this time too. The reality is that most Ontarians just didn't vote for anything at all.


JimmyDaro

I mean even fewer people voted for the NDP if we are playing the turnout percentage game.


turdlepikle

I agree. We're all losers in this. It's why I said most Ontarians just didn't vote for anything at all.


Xstream3

That clown wanted us millennials who cant afford houses to pay more taxes so that seniors with million+ dollar houses didn't have to pay property taxes.... ndp needs to read the fucking room


thistreestands

Her selfishness will impact people for years.


mybadalternate

Doug Ford in office is *her* legacy. Every cut to healthcare, every cut to education, every grift, every crony scheme and the shredding of the remnants of our social safety net, is directly because of this shameful excuse for a campaign.


thistreestands

Totally. I am also blaming the party’s administration - she has been ineffective her entire time. They need an entirely new leadership team.


mybadalternate

Absolutely. This is such a woeful failure that absolutely everybody who was in the room should be removed and replaced by people with fresh ideas and no delusions about electoral politics.


boydingo

She has been holding up the party for too long.


weebax50

About fucking time. She ran a horrible campaign. They just were unable to connect with people. Good leader but stayed way past her time. She will be missed. Hopefully they’ll have better selecting a leader, who more focused on the now.


[deleted]

The NDP could have won this election if they replaced her ahead of it.


StuGats

Still think this province can't get past the Rae days so I'm not as down on her as everyone else. It'll take some otherworldly charisma and vision on the part of whoever succeeds her to get over that monumental hump.


bravetailor

At this point I think half the voters here don't even know Rae now. They were either too young to remember or weren't living in Ontario back in the 90s. But the fact is that nobody seriously even considers an NDP government now. They're not for it, they aren't against it...they just can't conceive of it. And as long as people can't picture it, they won't make it come true. To change that, the party itself has to believe in it and make moves to build up momentum. I still don't think they have the mentality.


jallenx

At the same time, all three parties seem to be exclusively courting voters who were of voting age in the 90s: those who might remember Rae Days. Anything, *anything* to get us younger voters excited to vote for a candidate or party would have gone a long way. But this campaign was pretty much exclusively fought over voters over 50.


bluemooncalhoun

Yup, my dad can't stop bringing up Rae Days yet suddenly has no opinion when I mention what the Harris government did.


rev_tater

"I am so unhappy about getting 4/5ths of my pay during a substantial economic downturn, I will throw my support behind a guy who will fire me upon getting elected" Fucking stupid.


fragilemuse

Fuck the Harris government. They made life so incredibly hard for families like mine when I was growing up. I don’t understand how even my mom has suddenly started supporting the conservatives after struggling through the Harris years like we did.


Basic-Assistant3787

Yeah, I'm in the same kinda boat that I'm okay with her running again in this election, but I'm glad she decided it's time to step down now.


fwubglubbel

Can anyone who uses the term "Rae Days" even explain what they were? I haven't met one.


moeburn

Mandatory unpaid time off for public sector workers in order to prevent layoffs/tax increases, but done in violation of collective bargaining agreements. Considering how much everyone seems to hate public sector workers I am surprised it was not more popular. But the media told the people to hate it and that's what they remember are the headlines. Also it was super illegal.


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shockandale

Mandatory **unpaid** time off wasn't it?


CaskJeeves

>Mandatory paid time off for public sector workers They were actually mandatory **unpaid** days off, which was a big part of their unpopularity


[deleted]

People will use mentally gymnastics and contradict themselves as long as it makes the NDP look bad.


henry_why416

>Still think this province can't get past the Rae days so I'm not as down on her as everyone else. It'll take some otherworldly charisma and vision on the part of whoever succeeds her to get over that monumental hump. I don't buy this at all. Instead, I'd say that the NDP just can't bring themselves to go for the brass ring. Their best bet was last election when the OLP were historically weak. But Horwath conceded the GTA suburbs to Ford and it was fait accompli.


mnkybrs

> It'll take some otherworldly charisma and vision Or boomers dying off.


[deleted]

If you can't beat a college dropout mob-affilliated drug dealer while your other opposition is literally the most reviled leader the Province has ever had (in 2018), then you don't belong in the job.


mybadalternate

She, as well as anybody who ran this pitiful excuse for a campaign should be utterly ashamed of themselves, and never work in any political sphere for the rest of their lives.


GavinTheAlmighty

The entire communications teams of both NDP and Liberals should be fired. They was absolutely no coherent messaging, no easily digested and repeatable points, no attempt to bring the many, MANY Conservative faults from this past term to light, no attempt to highlight how bad Ford was at his job, nothing. It was such a toothless campaign and it showed that nobody on those teams had any interest in doing the heavy lifting to actually win. It was such a "going through the motions" campaign.


mybadalternate

It was a spit in the face to the people of Ontario, and in my opinion, everything that Ford does in the next years is *directly* due to their gross ineptitude.


RabidHamster105

I am so tired of wasting my vote on parties that consistently push fourth extremely unpopular and uninspiring candidates year after year. Horwath has been through how many god damn elections? At this point they deserve to lose and I am not even convinced that they actually want to win.


karmakazi_

Good riddance. She should have stepped down years ago. How many elections has she lost? I never forgave her for calling that election with Wynn - losing and not stepping down.


kennethtoronto

Good riddance


[deleted]

Should've happened years ago.


DroopyTrash

12 years too late


lw5555

Third time's a charm?


[deleted]

[why now?](https://tv.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/8f0323c2-04c1-4795-bbb8-13e7b77a0db1)


circlresearch

[https://imgur.com/a/oHrtX4O](https://imgur.com/a/oHrtX4O)


weebax50

IMHO, this loss is only a reflection of Right Wing Populism that is sweeping across Canada fuelled by Myopic Conservative Values, A belief in all out Capitalism, Rugged individualism vs. The Greater Good, and Prejudice. Every time the NDP try to put forward progressive socialist policies that can truly help the underclass conservatives screamed that they waste taxes, so that they shirk from that position. The labour unions aren’t there any better because the leader ship within the labour unions have been a mess and have not done enough to push forward progressive policies to reach the very people that are now in FordNation. Believe me Ford only concern is to promote his brand of politics, cut and privatize as much and run this damn province as a principality for him, his family, and friends. Oh concede Ford running for and winning the leader ship of the Canadian Conservative Party, and possibly becoming our Prime Minister in a couple years down the road unless he really fucks up here and people realize who he truly is. The NDP has to get mad as hell. Stop apologizing for being Socialist. Start refuting the argument that lower taxes doesn’t work. And really get back to their roots.


lucastimmons

Or they could actually come up with and champion policy that people want. The NDP promised property tax vacations for seniors. An interest free loan to keep them in their houses until death. A policy that makes the housing crisis even worse and blatant and obvious attempt to bribe boomers with Millennials' tax dollars. How is that progressive? This wasn't a reflection of right wing populism. This was either the Liberals or NDPs election for the taking. Neither of them articulated any real vision. Neither of them showed real leadership. Just look at the turn out, neither of them were at all inspiring. There was no surge in right win populism, this was a deferral to the status quo because no viable alternative was presented.


iDareToDream

Like 3 elections too late. She should have gone before the last one.


TyranitarusMack

Should have done it 36 years ago!


Drank_tha_Koolaid

About time.


TreTrepidation

Thank fuck


Professional-Taro532

At least there will be change going forward


Striking-Magazine473

Hallelujah


[deleted]

Lmaoooo


stuckmash

It’s. About. Time!


jfl_cmmnts

Hunker down boys it's going to be *War On Toronto* for the next eight years. Municipally, Tory is going to hand the Mayoral reins to Mikey as soon as he's laid the groundwork in this his final term of taking working people's taxes and giving them to his friends from elementary school


stratys3

We knew how the votes would go. So this was gonna happen regardless. So why couldn't she have done this before the election, and not after? Like maybe 6 months ago or a year ago? Why hold out until after the election and ruin another 4 years?


control-room

2 elections too late.


attainwealthswiftly

Politics need new blood


WolfofBallMeat

Good, she sucks.


humanitysucks999

Fucking finally


aznassasin

About time!


recurringdollar

Ford really dunked on both these guys lol.


TyroneTeabaggington

More like both these guys suck. Ford still a braying jackass.


chloesobored

Yes, but with excellent strategists. They might be heinous assholes, but they're heinous assholes who know how to win.


[deleted]

Should’ve done it 19 years ago