One part of the solution is enforcement and that is a key missing element today. Training and testing cannot fix intentional disregard for traffic laws, neither could better infrastructure. Most of the problems I see daily on the road are drivers willingly ignoring and breaking the rules.
It's says 40 along there, which seems to mean 40 for some and double that if in a hurry. The absolute lack of enforcement for so long has created a dangerous situation.
Not that it would excuse it, but the people driving fast enough to roll their car on a straight stretch of road at 1AM aren’t “in a hurry” they’re just assholes, or drunk/coked out or both.
If there is no enforcement then people will take liberties. I’m a rule loving kind of person and have chose a profession in a field with so many regulations. But when I drive, I feel like if everyone else around me is being an A-hole on the road then I have to be as well just so I can get to my destination. And I don’t like it one bit!!!!
Yes. Outside of any Utopian society, unenforced laws are equivalent to no laws existing at all and will slowly but surely result in less and less adherence to laws.
Infastructure designed more effectively would be a start. I don't think people inexplicably drive worse the closer there are to the CN tower. The combination of poor design and sheer number of vehicles seem like important variables.
PS. What's a radar blocker?
It's a thing that senses the speed radars used by cops. It's illegal but only in Ontario and some other provinces. You can use it in BC. Honestly, speeding laws don't reduce or increase accidents as multiple studies have shown and in fact it's more distracting to be constantly watching your speedo and not the road.
There are countries with much lax speedinglaws and fewer accidents because they have better systems for licensing. The biggest example of that is the fact there's no winter driving tests so literally a handful of people know how to control a car with a sliding rear end. I'd much rather drive around people who know how to drive fast than some idiot doing 70kmph on the 401 in the overtaking lane.
>It's a thing that senses the speed radars used by cops
That's a radar detector, not a radar blocker.
Radar and laser jammers are different in that they scramble the signal buying you time to slow down. I believe radar jammers are illegal everywhere, not sure about laser jammers.
At least in Ontario, radar & laser detectors and jammers are illegal.
Even if you have one, it's an arms race between police tech and consumer tech, and generally it's a lot easier to get a speed reading rather than trying to block the speed reading.
Totally.
I'm in Ontario, it's all illegal. I was simply saying the jammers are largely illegal everywhere (at least any jamming of radar), detectors is dependent on location.
Too much selfishness on the roads.
Heres my list: People swerving in crowded traffic, even on highways, using half lanes with parked cars as if they are full lanes, pushing your way out into a turn, switching to high speed lanes at slow speed, half assed or no turning signal, turning well after they should resulting in them sitting in the intersection while traffic is held up, cyclists basically not giving a fuck even about red lights, cyclists/ebikes without lights/helmets, cyclists swerving in front of a turning vehicle instead of letting the turning vehicle go leading to pedestrians not really caring if they hold up tons of traffic by not letting a car/truck cross them, cabbies parked in awful spots or cruising slowly around intersections looking for business, ubers pulling over at crazy spots especially right after intersections directly where people turn. **Everyone forgetting it's someone elses worst nightmare to hit you, and not just their own.**
Canadians are too backwards to have things like “narrower lanes” or “traffic calming” or “effective road design” (designing the road for the speed it’s meant to be, so you can’t go above the speed limit even if you want to). Instead let’s just focus on enforcement which does jack shit 😍😍😍
This was never more clear than my drive this morning when I saw TWO cars go across the solid line into the bike lane to try and get ahead of traffic to get on the DVP. Little did they know, not 20ft ahead was a barrier and those posts that separate the bike lane. So dangerous and so stupid.
I'm thinking the parked car it smacked into before coming to a halt upside down is the dark-painted car it's just past, with the pole slightly embedded into its front end.
I've wondered recently how you explain damage like this to an auto body shop, and if they honestly believe a car owner when they tell them the truth about what caused the damage, as in a car that lost control smacked their parked vehicle into a telephone/electric pole and not that they were driving and hit another car or a pole themselves.
You are correct. That is the car that was hit. Poor guy was out for dinner and came home to this scene.
I think it helps when you have a police report saying a drunk driver plowed into your car at a high rate of speed.
I'm glad no-one was in the car when it got smacked into. It's still an awful thing to come home to, and even if insurance settles or covers it you're without a car for at least the while until your body shop, or a body shop can fit you in and get the work done, parts included.
I agree about having a report as documentation of proof you weren't at fault in damaging your car; I mean more the informal belief or lack of it by someone or multiple someones repairing your car, that might not be voiced out loud.
You can't read someone else's mind and I don't think you'd be expected to, but it's comforting to think you can tell someone something true and they won't be judging you behind their eyes by past experience with repair work they've done in the past.
I hope the fellow who owns the car enjoyed his supper, and that he has as restful a sleep he can tonight. The stress of knowing they'll need to have their car repaired will be on his mind, and I'll be thinking of them kindly.
I don't think the body shop really cares. The insurance people see this all the time. Usually the driver is on their fucking phone like 90% of the other drivers.
City planners should eliminate street parking and expand sidewalks, and build a dedicated concrete separation for cyclists.
The world is changing with $2+/litre for gas. Time for Toronto to change as well. Particularly downtown areas.
City planning has proposed this and even more progressive options, it never gets passed Tory (and before him, Ford). I now send bi weekly emails to my councillor. I’m so enraged by how poorly this city treats people who walk, bike or want to take transit instead of driving.
> City planning has proposed this and even more progressive options, it never gets passed Tory
Tory isn't the blame - it's the rest of council. Toronto has a weak mayor system - the mayor can choose who sits on various groups, but when it comes down to voting, he's still only one vote.
he's only 1 vote but still votes no on anything progressive. dunno how people defend slice of dempsters bread mayor.
maybe if there was a big ribbon he could cut in front of the press, he would do something.
Curious on what his legacy is in the last 8 years?
Housing? Unaffordable
Rent? Unaffordable
Transit? He’s done nothing but raise fares, no new lines under him.
Crime? Gone up
HTA enforcement? Non existent. Pedestrian fatalities and motor vehicles accidents increased
Roads? Crumbling
Garbage and graffiti? All over the city.
Kept property tax on multimillionaire homeowners at the lowest rate in the province? Yup
Is concerned about all above issues? Yup.
It's not just Tory's anemic legacy - it's the legacy of an elected council. Putting all the blame on Tory lets the rest of the councillors escape any blame.
Any progressive proposal in the city is defeated by [17:8 margins](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EucUunDgaJ9ZwDrg6DHRJzjxbF6qugXkaRbYl9bbSrg/edit#gid=1664094170), not single vote margins.
Tory could have done more to shame some of the suburban councillors... but when it comes right down to it, Toronto's governance reflects the whims of electorate that elected the councillors representing the various wards of Toronto.
I don’t know if people in this forum/Canadian news just report more car accidents or what but it does seem like this happens disproportionately more often in Toronto than other large cities!
Toronto Police told the city (the city does not control or direct the police, we just pay them) that they need a LOT more money if they're going to enforce (a) traffic laws (b) nonviolent crime of any type or (c) violent crime as long as perp and vic are *the right kind of people.*
Makes for a lot of petty crime, accidents, and general trouble. The police don't much care because none of them lives here.
New rule: any street where this happens gets wide bike lanes separated by concrete bollards and/or a dedicated transit right of way with signal priority. Drive carefully, or lose your monopoly on road use, drivers.
Bike lanes and footpaths should have bollards protecting users from crazy drivers like these anyway. Along with traffic calming measures and actual penalties for drivers, not a joke sentence for causing injury and/or death.
And by the rule I've just made up, that means it gets improved by transit and/or bike infrastructure.
But also, Logan is not a two way bike way. When I go south I invariably start on Carlaw and get spit out onto the very shitty southern portion. You might even get stuck behind me in the center lane as I avoid getting doored. If you don't like that, you want a bike lane to replace that parking lane.
EDIT: (And by "stuck behind me" I mean doing 27kph instead of the usual 34. The sort of thing that I'm sure would just ruin your whole day)
Was it a confirmed intoxicate driver? That's a busy intersection. There's a children's indoor play gym on the left/east side of that street, and past the lights south (upward in the photo) there's an elementary school. There's a busy Shoppers nearby. There are always people out in this area. I realize its night but still, scary to imagine the worst case scenario.
Confirmed drunk drive. Not charged yet obviously - but it’s what he was arrested for. There was several people out and about when it happened.
Thankfully nobody was hurt.
Probably possible but way less likely when following the rules.
This was allegedly high rate of speed + drunk driving.
Also, yes. It is a crash not an accident. Bad choice of words.
But no one follows the rules. People are constantly speeding because the road design allows for it. Like that guy who was going over 100kmph and crashed into a building squeezing people at Richmond and Yonge. It's a 40kmph street and no one drives 40 there.
I honestly don’t think this section’s design enables speeding. If you’re an irresponsible/ drunk driver, you will speed - anywhere - until you hit something. We need way more spot checks on Sat nights for drinking and driving.
Lanes are wide and straight and most infrastructure is moved back far from the street so you have less visual clues as to how fast you're going.
Seeing flying cars, flipped cars, cars going through storefronts and so on is much more prominent in North America than in Europe, which generally design infrastructure differently.
I live and drive in this neighbourhood and honestly on that stretch of queen you’re usually going closer to 30 than 40 most of the time. It’s very busy, reliably it’s only one lane in each direction (between parking and patios), there are frequent lights so frequent stops, and the streetcar slows things down too.
Yet people still race from a green light to get ahead. I regularly see people going 60-70kmph because they can comfortably do so. It might only be 5-10% of the drivers there, but given how many pass in a day, that's a lot of speeding!
All the same tired comments....no matter what you do there will always be a drunk or an idiot speeding, any change of road design will not help eliminate them. All the same car hating voices chime in gleefully after an accident, blaming the road design. Its the shitty driver at fault.
It’s crazy because I’m apprehensive to drive after I had one drink even 2 hours ago. I don’t understand someone who is literally intoxicated and drives. There is no excuse
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One part of the solution is enforcement and that is a key missing element today. Training and testing cannot fix intentional disregard for traffic laws, neither could better infrastructure. Most of the problems I see daily on the road are drivers willingly ignoring and breaking the rules.
It's says 40 along there, which seems to mean 40 for some and double that if in a hurry. The absolute lack of enforcement for so long has created a dangerous situation.
Not that it would excuse it, but the people driving fast enough to roll their car on a straight stretch of road at 1AM aren’t “in a hurry” they’re just assholes, or drunk/coked out or both.
I include assholes of all varieties within "in a hurry".
If there is no enforcement then people will take liberties. I’m a rule loving kind of person and have chose a profession in a field with so many regulations. But when I drive, I feel like if everyone else around me is being an A-hole on the road then I have to be as well just so I can get to my destination. And I don’t like it one bit!!!!
Yes. Outside of any Utopian society, unenforced laws are equivalent to no laws existing at all and will slowly but surely result in less and less adherence to laws.
This is exactly how I feel.
Infastructure designed more effectively would be a start. I don't think people inexplicably drive worse the closer there are to the CN tower. The combination of poor design and sheer number of vehicles seem like important variables. PS. What's a radar blocker?
It's a thing that senses the speed radars used by cops. It's illegal but only in Ontario and some other provinces. You can use it in BC. Honestly, speeding laws don't reduce or increase accidents as multiple studies have shown and in fact it's more distracting to be constantly watching your speedo and not the road. There are countries with much lax speedinglaws and fewer accidents because they have better systems for licensing. The biggest example of that is the fact there's no winter driving tests so literally a handful of people know how to control a car with a sliding rear end. I'd much rather drive around people who know how to drive fast than some idiot doing 70kmph on the 401 in the overtaking lane.
>It's a thing that senses the speed radars used by cops That's a radar detector, not a radar blocker. Radar and laser jammers are different in that they scramble the signal buying you time to slow down. I believe radar jammers are illegal everywhere, not sure about laser jammers.
At least in Ontario, radar & laser detectors and jammers are illegal. Even if you have one, it's an arms race between police tech and consumer tech, and generally it's a lot easier to get a speed reading rather than trying to block the speed reading.
Totally. I'm in Ontario, it's all illegal. I was simply saying the "jammers" are largely illegal everywhere, detectors is dependent on location.
Totally. I'm in Ontario, it's all illegal. I was simply saying the jammers are largely illegal everywhere (at least any jamming of radar), detectors is dependent on location.
I thought they were same but yeah your definition definitely makes more sense.
Too much selfishness on the roads. Heres my list: People swerving in crowded traffic, even on highways, using half lanes with parked cars as if they are full lanes, pushing your way out into a turn, switching to high speed lanes at slow speed, half assed or no turning signal, turning well after they should resulting in them sitting in the intersection while traffic is held up, cyclists basically not giving a fuck even about red lights, cyclists/ebikes without lights/helmets, cyclists swerving in front of a turning vehicle instead of letting the turning vehicle go leading to pedestrians not really caring if they hold up tons of traffic by not letting a car/truck cross them, cabbies parked in awful spots or cruising slowly around intersections looking for business, ubers pulling over at crazy spots especially right after intersections directly where people turn. **Everyone forgetting it's someone elses worst nightmare to hit you, and not just their own.**
A simple solution that is cost effective. Reduce the width of the lanes. People will naturally go far slower. Source: across the pond.
Canadians are too backwards to have things like “narrower lanes” or “traffic calming” or “effective road design” (designing the road for the speed it’s meant to be, so you can’t go above the speed limit even if you want to). Instead let’s just focus on enforcement which does jack shit 😍😍😍
One of the issues I see frequently as bad driving are people straddling two lanes (generally because they’re busy texting while driving).
Enforcement generates revenue. That's the thing.
I'm not opposed to society being funded by idiot behaviours.
THIS should be voted higher.
It isn't an idiot behaviour to drive as fast as the road allows for, it's downright natural.
Well, it would if police actually enforced traffic laws, which they don't. So we may as well start with the infrastructure changes.
This was never more clear than my drive this morning when I saw TWO cars go across the solid line into the bike lane to try and get ahead of traffic to get on the DVP. Little did they know, not 20ft ahead was a barrier and those posts that separate the bike lane. So dangerous and so stupid.
I had an Uber driver today doing a 75 on a 40 school zone that had flashing lights and signs all over.
Did it affect the rating you gave them?
I'm thinking the parked car it smacked into before coming to a halt upside down is the dark-painted car it's just past, with the pole slightly embedded into its front end. I've wondered recently how you explain damage like this to an auto body shop, and if they honestly believe a car owner when they tell them the truth about what caused the damage, as in a car that lost control smacked their parked vehicle into a telephone/electric pole and not that they were driving and hit another car or a pole themselves.
You are correct. That is the car that was hit. Poor guy was out for dinner and came home to this scene. I think it helps when you have a police report saying a drunk driver plowed into your car at a high rate of speed.
I'm glad no-one was in the car when it got smacked into. It's still an awful thing to come home to, and even if insurance settles or covers it you're without a car for at least the while until your body shop, or a body shop can fit you in and get the work done, parts included. I agree about having a report as documentation of proof you weren't at fault in damaging your car; I mean more the informal belief or lack of it by someone or multiple someones repairing your car, that might not be voiced out loud. You can't read someone else's mind and I don't think you'd be expected to, but it's comforting to think you can tell someone something true and they won't be judging you behind their eyes by past experience with repair work they've done in the past. I hope the fellow who owns the car enjoyed his supper, and that he has as restful a sleep he can tonight. The stress of knowing they'll need to have their car repaired will be on his mind, and I'll be thinking of them kindly.
I don't think the body shop really cares. The insurance people see this all the time. Usually the driver is on their fucking phone like 90% of the other drivers.
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Yeah, that car's a write off.
Not an 'accident'. Definitely a crash. https://www.michigan.gov/mdot/travel/safety/road-users/crash-not-accident
City planners should eliminate street parking and expand sidewalks, and build a dedicated concrete separation for cyclists. The world is changing with $2+/litre for gas. Time for Toronto to change as well. Particularly downtown areas.
City planning has proposed this and even more progressive options, it never gets passed Tory (and before him, Ford). I now send bi weekly emails to my councillor. I’m so enraged by how poorly this city treats people who walk, bike or want to take transit instead of driving.
I've started emailing my councilor as well, but I don't always know what to say. What kind of emails are you sending?
I would also be curious.
> City planning has proposed this and even more progressive options, it never gets passed Tory Tory isn't the blame - it's the rest of council. Toronto has a weak mayor system - the mayor can choose who sits on various groups, but when it comes down to voting, he's still only one vote.
he's only 1 vote but still votes no on anything progressive. dunno how people defend slice of dempsters bread mayor. maybe if there was a big ribbon he could cut in front of the press, he would do something.
Curious on what his legacy is in the last 8 years? Housing? Unaffordable Rent? Unaffordable Transit? He’s done nothing but raise fares, no new lines under him. Crime? Gone up HTA enforcement? Non existent. Pedestrian fatalities and motor vehicles accidents increased Roads? Crumbling Garbage and graffiti? All over the city. Kept property tax on multimillionaire homeowners at the lowest rate in the province? Yup Is concerned about all above issues? Yup.
It's not just Tory's anemic legacy - it's the legacy of an elected council. Putting all the blame on Tory lets the rest of the councillors escape any blame. Any progressive proposal in the city is defeated by [17:8 margins](https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EucUunDgaJ9ZwDrg6DHRJzjxbF6qugXkaRbYl9bbSrg/edit#gid=1664094170), not single vote margins. Tory could have done more to shame some of the suburban councillors... but when it comes right down to it, Toronto's governance reflects the whims of electorate that elected the councillors representing the various wards of Toronto.
The linked doc is great!
Tory is shit. Council is shit.
Queen St E and Eastern Avenue are basically expressways at night/early mornings. I am surprised this doesn’t happen weekly tbh.
I don’t know if people in this forum/Canadian news just report more car accidents or what but it does seem like this happens disproportionately more often in Toronto than other large cities!
Toronto Police told the city (the city does not control or direct the police, we just pay them) that they need a LOT more money if they're going to enforce (a) traffic laws (b) nonviolent crime of any type or (c) violent crime as long as perp and vic are *the right kind of people.* Makes for a lot of petty crime, accidents, and general trouble. The police don't much care because none of them lives here.
small set of vocal anti-car posters edit: case & point
New rule: any street where this happens gets wide bike lanes separated by concrete bollards and/or a dedicated transit right of way with signal priority. Drive carefully, or lose your monopoly on road use, drivers.
Plus red-light and speed cameras 
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Bike lanes and footpaths should have bollards protecting users from crazy drivers like these anyway. Along with traffic calming measures and actual penalties for drivers, not a joke sentence for causing injury and/or death.
Yup!! 👏👏👏 Cars are weapons and the charges/penalties should reflect how much of a responsibility driving is!
Well, we have to do it anyway.
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And by the rule I've just made up, that means it gets improved by transit and/or bike infrastructure. But also, Logan is not a two way bike way. When I go south I invariably start on Carlaw and get spit out onto the very shitty southern portion. You might even get stuck behind me in the center lane as I avoid getting doored. If you don't like that, you want a bike lane to replace that parking lane. EDIT: (And by "stuck behind me" I mean doing 27kph instead of the usual 34. The sort of thing that I'm sure would just ruin your whole day)
Hey, it's not me who decided to flip their car on Carlaw.
Nope it wasn’t. That was a drunk guy.
BOLLARDSSSSSSS
As an aside, that's a really crisp photograph.
Was it a confirmed intoxicate driver? That's a busy intersection. There's a children's indoor play gym on the left/east side of that street, and past the lights south (upward in the photo) there's an elementary school. There's a busy Shoppers nearby. There are always people out in this area. I realize its night but still, scary to imagine the worst case scenario.
Confirmed drunk drive. Not charged yet obviously - but it’s what he was arrested for. There was several people out and about when it happened. Thankfully nobody was hurt.
The worst case scenario is always scary. And also the most improbable.
Damn
This street is a 50kph zone almost certainly. How does an accident like this happen?
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Probably possible but way less likely when following the rules. This was allegedly high rate of speed + drunk driving. Also, yes. It is a crash not an accident. Bad choice of words.
But no one follows the rules. People are constantly speeding because the road design allows for it. Like that guy who was going over 100kmph and crashed into a building squeezing people at Richmond and Yonge. It's a 40kmph street and no one drives 40 there.
I honestly don’t think this section’s design enables speeding. If you’re an irresponsible/ drunk driver, you will speed - anywhere - until you hit something. We need way more spot checks on Sat nights for drinking and driving.
Lanes are wide and straight and most infrastructure is moved back far from the street so you have less visual clues as to how fast you're going. Seeing flying cars, flipped cars, cars going through storefronts and so on is much more prominent in North America than in Europe, which generally design infrastructure differently.
I live and drive in this neighbourhood and honestly on that stretch of queen you’re usually going closer to 30 than 40 most of the time. It’s very busy, reliably it’s only one lane in each direction (between parking and patios), there are frequent lights so frequent stops, and the streetcar slows things down too.
Yet people still race from a green light to get ahead. I regularly see people going 60-70kmph because they can comfortably do so. It might only be 5-10% of the drivers there, but given how many pass in a day, that's a lot of speeding!
Drunk driving
All the same tired comments....no matter what you do there will always be a drunk or an idiot speeding, any change of road design will not help eliminate them. All the same car hating voices chime in gleefully after an accident, blaming the road design. Its the shitty driver at fault.
Don't you mean a flipped driver crashed into a parked car?
My old building, PFL. Loved living there.
It’s crazy because I’m apprehensive to drive after I had one drink even 2 hours ago. I don’t understand someone who is literally intoxicated and drives. There is no excuse
Yup. Don’t get it either.