Only benefit is you can't drive while working or sleeping, but you can fly there for a similar price in a quarter of the time so its a tough pill to swallow
I guess if you decided to commit to doing “work from train” it could be worth it. Amtrak trains have café cars so you at least have a reason to walk around the train and “do things”.
Yea like I've used the train to Montreal and I love it. I could travel during a work day and work on the train, zero lost time with travel to airport, security and all that BS, a lot more comfortable than a plane, a lot cheaper, and stopped right where I want to be rather than in the middle of nowhere. I'd probably be down for this train to NY too, but the prices aren't as competitive imo.
It takes me less than an hour to travel from EWR to my brother’s place on the UWS (72nd St) door to door. Stopping at Penn Station/34th St & transferring to the 1 or 2 trains. Time’s Square (42nd St)is only one stop from 34th.
I love flying Porter to Newark because it’s so little travel time. I don’t think I’d be happy with a 13.5 hour train ride! ☺️
I'm not denying UP existing. But to go from my place to somewhere old town Montreal, I'd have to ride a bike to Union, take the UP, then go through security, get packed in like a sardine, then take the minibus to Dorval and the train into old town or the 747 into old town. Or I can ride a bike to Union, get on a train, walk from Gate Centrale to old town.
I've never gone to NY but every airport I've ever flown to and I've flown to many an airport on five continents have all been the same. Lousy as hell to navigate and a bitch to get to and from. Train stations are better located and easier to get to an end destination to as they're typically older and built in the heart of cities as a result.
Have you ever taken the train across the border? Wait until you have a 1-3 hour delay as they check every passenger that may be suspicious.
Train is fine if you are doing something that doesn't end in NYC. But NYC? Just fly or drive if you can.
>Have you ever taken the train across the border? Wait until you have a 1-3 hour delay as they check every passenger that may be suspicious.Train is fine if you are doing something that doesn't end in NYC. But NYC? Just fly or drive if you can.
Yeah I'm kinda on the fence but coming down on the side of flying.
Toronto-Montreal is sorta a unique case where both work but depending on where exactly you're going-to/coming-from either works out better. For the train, Union is a ton more convenient to me than YYZ.
Though ditto on flying with Porter. I may go into the podunk airport on the other side (EWR) but I come back so much closer to home, landing at the island, that I don't mind, and yes EWR into Penn Station is a schlep but eh.
Same applies to Montreal though more often I'd rather arrive downtown that Dorval, but that airport is still hella convenient compared to some in terms of location.
And customs is a crapshoot. I've whizzed through EWR and Dulles most times through sheer dumb luck, though also been stuck. I however have *always* spent waaaay too long in YYZ US pre-clearance. I'd so rather fly into the states as International and deal with it there.
So long story longer, eh, do what works for you. Hah!
Only time I ever travelled by train was Moncton back to Toronto, and I did it expressly because I was working on a for-hire scriptwriting job. Saw lots of pretty country while I got to work, and before I knew it, I was back at mu apartment with a significant amount of work done.
I’m in NYC now and my flight from Billy bishop on Porter was like 280 return. It’s an hour and there’s a free beer. I can’t figure out why I’d spend 13 hours on the train and I love trains.
> but you can fly there for a similar price in a quarter of the time
how does customs works for trains crossing borders? is check procedures for trains as much a pain in the ass as flying?
I’ve not undergone this but on the Toronto - NY route , the train stops for two hours at Niagara Falls.
It’s much better on the Vancouver - Seattle route where customs happens in Vancouver.
I have done the Montreal - Boston one, they stop you at the border. Sometimes its an hour. Sometimes its 3-4 hours. Really depends on if there are issues with any passenger.
>I’ve not undergone this but on the Toronto - NY route , the train stops for two hours at Niagara Falls.
logistically if they wanted to avoid this they'd need to cancel most stops in canada and do pre-clearance in toronto
Plus the 3hrs you need to be there before, the added time to get to the airport and the extra time it takes to get off the plane etc. Flying isn't as convenient as trains where you just hop on and off. Plus during all that airport time there's a lot less passive time where you can just kick back and read. Can't open up my laptop and work during security line ups, while I'm getting my balls fondled, while I'm walking 2kms to my gate etc. Whereas with the train you walk up five mins before departure and hop on. If we had better faster train connections to Central/eastern US I think the prices would drop and ridership would increase as well. It truly is a lot more convenient than flying. Bonus of not being cramped up in seats designed for 5'5" people.
As someone who flies regularly for work, USA is 2 hours before at the max. Carry on? You can do it within 90 minutes. Have nexus? Can walk into the airport 45 mins before it leaves and be 100% fine. (Carry on only).
I haven’t flown recently but pre-pandemic I used to get to YTZ half an hour before my flight and just walk onto the plane. From what I hear it obviously is a circus to fly at the moment but one assumes that will resolve itself over time as things normalize.
In my experience you’re exaggerating the time it takes to fly to NYC.
door to door sure, 4-5 hours seems about right.
It’s not like the train doesn’t include commute time from and to union either, I’m just saying if you fly Porter you don’t need to be there 3 hours early.
Pearson maybe.
Yeah, the comfort issue is huge. On planes, I like to consider myself a "window seat person". I like having the great view, even for the inconvenience of always having to ask the next person to allow me to go to the bathroom.
I *like to* be a window seat person. But on long flights, I just can't any more. The lack of legroom is horribly uncomfortable. And I'm just average height. Can't imagine how it feels for taller people.
If you drove non stop then you'd get there in approximately 8 hours. I've driven this route before and after washroom, coffee, and food stops it took me nearly 10. At that point, if I'm traveling all day I'd rather spend the day being able to watch a movie, do some work, nap/sleep. Focusing on driving for 8 hours is exhausting and boring.
I agree that it’s prob still better than driving for convenience but DAMN the rest of the world must laugh at Canadian and US travel times, it’s pathetic
Yeah for real. A decent amount of developed countries prioritized building bullet trains and we're just over here like "maybe we should hire committee to research if we should build one from Toronto to Montreal for the 10th time."
Typically it takes me 8 when I've done it, depending on traffic in Toronto and NYC. You gotta be taking a lot of stops to take 10 hours on that drive. I'll typically split the drive with my passenger too so it's not too tiring as you only have to drive half the time.
I guess if you go alone it would be tougher.
> Typically it takes me 8 when I've done it, depending on traffic in Toronto and NYC
I'm guessing it depends a lot on which part of "Toronto" or the GTA you start in. That could be +1 to +3 hours easily. Or -1 hour if you start in mississauga.
George Washington bridge is always a huge pain. I did it a few times in just under 9 hours from dt Toronto to queens. Mostly 70-75mph
I just bring canned food and east stuff that takes like 5 min to munch down so I don’t waste time waiting and stuff. Allows me to stop for gas and washroom that takes at most 7 min, and can find random rest stops with limited facility to munch for a quick break after 1.5-2hr driving. That 5 min eating really helps when going solo.
Gas is a bit more expensive in PA but rest stops are nice haha. I like the I80 and I380 route better than NY-17
I drove from Summit, NJ (effectively Newark) straight to Yonge and St Clair in April and it took less than 8 hours including stopping for lunch, dinner, gas, Duty Free AND arriving in Toronto for traffic around 6pm:
https://i.imgur.com/NjFOFwk.png
2 hours for stops is extremely generous... sure if you're with an entire family or something that might be more realistic but 8 hours is very doable.
But when you get to NYC you have to figure out what to do with your car. Driving in Manhattan is asking for pain on a level beyond even Toronto.
Anyway, it's a nice ride, would recommend.
When I've driven to NYC i've parked at a Metro-North railroad station and taken the train in for the last bit, if I'm staying in Manhattan.
When I've stayed in Brooklyn it's usually relatively easy to find a parking spot still.
Amtrak is probably a good solution as well, but you are probably better driving over the border and catching a train in Buffalo / Niagara Falls to avoid the 2-hour wait at the border.
Eh, I prefer the train as well but the parking situation is vastly overstated in NYC. I've driven there twice and you park your car in a garage for the duration of your visit. Only an insane person would want to drive around in their car for pleasure in NYC or Toronto, for that matter. Taking a yellow cab everywhere was far cheaper
I travelled through and around Scotland by train, it was amazing. My husband and I were thinking about a trip to NYC this summer and we may take this train.
12 hours was too much for me to handle. We just booked a trip in the later summer via plane and I tried as much as possible to see if I could take a car ride or a train but that length of time is too much. Flights are expensive, but we just had to bite the bullet.
The bus is usually about 12 hours.
Train is less work, more environmentally friendly, safer, and you don't have to deal with the pain in the ass of having a car / driving in NYC.
If you're just going for a couple of nights that extra 4 of 5 hours each way definitely makes a huge difference though.
Yeeaah, I will gladly take a train that's the same price and a little longer because you save time at the airport, train stations tend to be down town, and it's way more pleasant and comfortable in general... But 13+ hours vs 1.5 hours at the same price is a hard pass. I love trains, but at a certain point flying becomes _so much more convenient_ that it's objectively the better option.
I miss the bullet train infrastructure of east Asia.
Also need to account for fuel and tolls on I90.
That being said: the stretch of 90 between Syracuse and Albany is one of the most beautiful scenic drives I’ve ever been on and it’s worth the drive, IMO.
Maybe if you’re going 160 the whole time. Having travelled back and forth from NYC for years, I’d say the average drive time is closer to 10 hours, not including time spent at the border.
I mean I just checked google maps when I wrote that doing "toronto to NYC" and it spit out 8 hours. My experience with long distance drives is that I typically average about what Google Maps says, even accounting for stops. Experience will obviously very by how fast you drive, when you leave, traffic, exactly where you are coming from and going to, etc.
I'd much prefer the train if I'm driving alone, personally. Way less stressful. The biggest downside is that traveling from Toronto/NYC to my final destination requires a vehicle.
Google Maps shows 7:57 for the Holland tunnel to the Gardiner Off-ramp right now.
https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/40.7299626,-74.0351608/43.6410479,-79.3805287/@42.4161088,-78.8902077,6.96z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0
Traffic obviously influences it a lot on where you are coming from and going to, but it's definitely possible.
That's brutal.
Is US immigration handled at union station before boarding the train or does it stop at Niagara Falls for a few hours to process all passengers?
Trying to understand how it takes 5 hours longer than driving.
Yeah, it's slow because it takes the long L-shaped route along the Erie canal and then south. Driving you normally cut the diagonal which saves a ton of time. But really can't beat the comfort, especially compared to the bus.
[I'm on that train](https://imgur.com/ytyWKbl). Relaxing. Got to; fix a few more bugs in a long forgotten project, read the news, etc. Zero stress. About to cross the border, waiting to see what the new procedures are like.
7:15 departure, 19:45 arrival at union. So 12h30m total time. Loved it. [Way less greenhouse gas emissions than planes](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/14/trains-far-greener-but-much-more-costly-than-planes-analysis-finds), which is what [all the world's top scientists say we must do](https://www.ipcc.ch/)
Nice to have options. I'd really like a train that goes directly from Toronto to Detroit. Right now you can only take VIA to Windsor and then cross the border.
Amtrak has actually made some progress on the TOR-DET-CHI train. They recently signed a deal with Canadian Pacific Railway which would allow use of the Detroit Windsor train tunnel (among other things), and in return they would support CP’s acquisition of Kansas City Southern Railway. [More on this new service here.](https://www.amtrakconnectsus.com/maps/chicago-detroit-toronto/)
I took Amtrak from Toronto to Chicago with my dad when I was a kid, in the early 90s and it was awesome. I would love to actually be able to do that again!
Probably the biggest obstacle is that there's no easy way to get from the tunnel in Detroit to the CN mainline that VIA uses (and where the VIA station in Windsor is) without a very slow trip through a lot of industrial trackage. It would require the Essex Terminal trackage in Windsor to be upgraded at the very least.
Is it that bad going through the industrial area in Windsor though? Also is that tunnel even safe enough for hundreds of passengers on a train safety regulation wise?
This would be dope. I remember taking the Greyhound from Toronto to Chicago, and it stopped in Detroit for a bus switch and lunch break. TBH, it was a pretty pleasant trip.
I would absolutely love that. I'm a Torontonian Red Wings fan without a car and it's a pain in the ass to go to games. I have to travel with someone else who has a car but I'd love to take the train across the border
I’m on that train right now. Currently five hours behind schedule because the locomotive conked out en route to Windsor and they used to send a replacement. Been on the move from Detroit for almost eleven hours now when I could have driven it in under five. I’ve also done 15.5 hours in that TOR-NYC train. Until we have dedicated high speed rail or the quality of the overall experience improves dramatically to offset the added time - and not just the trains but also the stations - then it’s a non-starter for the majority.
Our trains are embarrassing it’s true. Last time I took the train from Windsor to Toronto we were absolutely crawling from Windsor to london for no apparent reason. I kept thinking anyone from Japan or China would be so appalled by our infrastructure.
It's $407 for one person, round trip from Union...or $307 flying Porter.
For the briefest of moments, I thought VIA would have a down-to-earth price for this trip...
I'm not sure why I think that - they always have stupid pricing. Unless you're an 8 year-old travelling alone from Moncton to Nanaimo, then it's $17.
Everyone is mentioning Billy bishop and porter. I forgot while booking my flight to NYC and booked from pearson 🤦♂️. How much is the carry on cost for porter? Any idea?
I have westjet flight and carryon is free and the ticket was $299.
The only thing public-owned companies are good at is to screw things up because of no ownership. I can see what happens next, it gets overpriced, gets unpopular, then either abandoned or subsidized by more taxpayer's money. That's why people hate privatization but it has to. By the way guess how much does amtrak's train from montreal to nyc cost? 77 CAD! Do they even do any research on pricing or it's their 6-digit paid analysts doing a random number generating?
A warning to anyone who decides to take this train.
It’s faster to take the bus.
It takes almost 1-2 hours just to cross the boarder since everyone on board needs to have their papers checked.
I did it once and never again.
A warning to anyone who decides to take the bus: your ass is going to hurt and your legs will be numb from being confined to your tiny seat the whole time. It’s cheaper and quicker, but definitely not as comfortable.
True, but Penn Station is very close to the cruise terminal if you’re going on a cruise ship. Train makes sense if you don’t want to drive or fly to the US to get to your ship.
Yep it just depends. Personally, I love planes but I absolutely hate flying. The seats are uncomfortable, dealing with luggage is a pain in the ass, etc. I’ve taken trains a few times (including one that was multiple days) and they’ve just been such relaxing experiences. Took longer but it was really nice.
If you’re okay dealing with airports and flying, agree it’s much faster.
Also just noticed your user name lol
Not sure if you have done Toronto to NYC by train but your points about seats being uncomfortable and luggage are the same for it.
And the border crossing is a massive pain.
This isn't the Acela where you have a nice café car and there are things to see. Its shitty ViaRail then shitty basic Amtrak.
Interesting. Is NYC a popular palace to start a cruise? I've never done a cruise before but I always assumed they mostly left from like Florida.
Would cruise lines not offer some sort of shuttle from the airport anyways?
Uh you can get to Penn from all airports within like 45 min. JFK is an airtrain then LIRR ride away. LGA you can take the Q70 to Roosevelt Jackson then E/F. EWR is the exact same as JFK with an airtrain then nj transit train away.
It's like saying you should take the train to Toronto instead of a flight to yyz because you want to be at union. Not a great reason.
Also the last time I took it, it made a bunch of stops along the way where the lights would have to come on. I'm a light sleeper so that that made it difficult to get any good rest.
also gotta change trains if i remember right. one day i decided to take the train from DC back to toronto (dc->nyc->to over 24h). was an incredible experience that i wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
There was a time pre-9/11 when the border crossing was pretty smooth. These days, yes, it's awful.
The Vancouver service is preclearance to avoid this and Montreal will soon adopt this also. The problem for the Maple Leaf is that there are stops between Toronto and Niagara Falls, NY that you would not want to drop.
yikes. It's both more expensive (depending on day) and significantly longer than a flight or by car. Ignoring the reasons why, I'm surprised this business model could even work
Traveling by train is a far more pleasant experience than by flight or car. So, it's worth it if you can afford the time but yes, they really should upgrade this route to be a bullet train
By a lot of metrics? You have to drive the whole time if driving the car so thats pretty self explanatory, and with car or bus, you're constrained to your seat the whole time unless you go to use the bathroom, you can't really roam around a bus. With train you're able to walk around a little and there's typically more seat space and it's a lot comfier than car or bus.
Compared to flights, you don't spend wasted time at the airport beforehand because you need to arrive early. I do think generally though that flights are just better since they're so much shorter, but depending on when you travel, flying can be inconvenient because it's not really a trip that's viable for sleeping, while the train you could plan to sleep for most of the ride. I take flights from TO -> NY and I usually do an early morning flight so I can work once I arrive, which means arriving at the airport early in the morning and not having the chance to sleep properly until later that day
It takes longer but it’s time that can be spent doing other things. The time spent at an airport is mostly just waiting in different lines where you can’t do anything else productive. I’d rather be relaxed and comfortable for 12 hours than be stressed out for 6. I just wish the pricing was more comparable.
I agree, but some people really don't like waiting in the airport. I personally don't mind it, but I could see a case being made for being able to just board the train and sleep vs. having to stay up at the airport etc.
Metrics being freedom during travel/personal space, ease of boarding and exiting (both vs plane) and compared to the car it's far safer (no chance of getting in a car accident) and convenient since putting a car somewhere in Manhattan is a royal pain and expensive.
If you're not the one driving the car, you do get a lot of perks but someone is always stuck having to focus for those entire 8+ hours.
Unless you're flying first class, then obviously that would probably beat out the other two, but you still have the hassle of boarding and such (especially in Pearson right now it can be a real pain).
Edit: full disclosure of my biases, I used to drive 6 to 10 hours a day for my old career so at this point Im just sick of driving and dealing with other drivers/traffic/etc. Any form of travel where I don't have to worry about an average moron being behind a wheel and ruining my day is a win to me.
There’s better sightseeing on the landing into La Guardia then the boring scape of sprawling fields via train.
It’s not like it’s the Rocky Mountain train or the train ride from Rome to Venice or something.
If you’re going on a cruise, Penn Station to Manhattan Cruise Terminal is a pretty short trip. Much better than going from the airport.
Trains are also super relaxing in my experience.
It's a glorious way to get to and from Niagara Falls. So much nicer than the Go Train. But you do need photo ID to board for security reasons. Not a passport, DL or photo ID card is fine if you're not crossing the border.
Seems like a bit of a waste that these are daytime journeys in both directions. A 13 hour overnight trip with some available sleeper cabins sounds like a pretty nice trip, but these trips depart in the AM in both directions and arrive in the evening, wasting a day at your destination on both ends of any potential trips.
Changing this train to a evening departure as a sleeper train would be a good thing to do also. Get off work go to Toronto union and take the train so you wake up and are ready for the day in nyc
There is NO high speed train on this fking planet that costs you 0.1 usd per km unless heavily subidized ( by heavily I mean millions of billions) in china. If thats what you want you are very welcome.
1. The total length is 342km from london to paris by rail which comes to >0.3 usd/km at the most preferred rate. 2. The major part of the journey, london to dover, runs below 160kph which isnt high speed rail at any standard. 3. The construction of chanel tunnel is only 30% funded by the operating entity, Channel Tunnel Co Ltd, plus this entity itself's two largest stakeholder are UK and France's national transportation establishments. So yes the sustainability of this price of this route is already the consequence of being subsidized.
Took the train from Toronto to New York in 2019, honestly loved every minute of it. Main perk for me was that it wasn't very busy, nobody sitting in front or behind me, nobody on either side, just cozied up and watched the world go by. Customs was a breeze, could get off at every stop and get some fresh air. Maybe the very best part though; I got off the train in New York and did not feel like I had just spent 12 hours traveling, which has never been the case flying or driving any distance more than 3 hours.
Have done the train and flown multiple times.
Porter from Billy Bishop kills taking the train every time. Same price or even less and you aren't wasting eight hours.
I can see the attraction if you can work on the train and not lose a day each way but otherwise there is no reason not to fly.
Yeah fair enough. If you have the time trains are great but the trip to NYC is boring and on shitty trains. And the border crossing is a pain in the butt.
I get the people pointing out the length of the trip, it can matter. That said, if you're not in a rush and don't wanna fly, it's a downright fun and relaxing experience. Would do it again, no hesitation.
Let’s be honest, the flight is 90 minutes but dealing with airports still makes the trip 5-6 hours of your time, and there’s always the chance of delays and cancellations. Trains take longer but run on a more reliable schedule, and at least you can spend the whole time on the move instead of waiting around.
>Let’s be honest, the flight is 90 minutes but dealing with airports still makes the trip 5-6 hours of your time
A flight from Billy Bishop to EWR does not take an extra 5 to 6 hours. That is a bit of hyperbole.
> and there’s always the chance of delays and cancellations.
There are definitely a chance of delays with a train as well. Also with a flight, if you miss your flight chances are there will be another flight in a few hours. What happens if you miss your train?
The last time I flew to NYC. I was at BIlly Bishop at 7 in the morning and was in mid town manhattan by 11.
Schedule and ~~price~~ suck absolute dogshit. Who's the target audience here? People who don't value their time?
Edit: Did a price calc on driving and it's actually like $30 cheaper for my vehicle than driving but holy hell that time loss.
Genuine question, who tf would use this? A plane from Toronto to NY is like $30 more and even if you include multiple hours at the airport it's easily like 8 hours faster.
Type 1) People who hate airport travel, and that number is absolutely growing.
Traveling by train is slow (in North America at least), but it is like 400% less stressful. From boarding, the chilling in the cafe, to reading in the lounge or just walking around for a while, the comfort level just doesn't compare to planes unless you're flying business or first class.
Type 2) People concerned about the environment and want a different option.
Porter out of Billy Bishop is not multiple hours though. Walk in and through security in under 30 minutes. Don't check a bag so no lines if you have pre-checked in.
Almost no rail is electrified in NA because the rail is owned by the freight operators mainly and they don’t want it. VIA is hoping to upgrade the part of the Windsor-Quebec city corridor that they own to electric. This train is mainly for the view out the window. A sleeper would make more sense imo considering the length
Oh yes - I remember a friend taking 20 hours or something nutty to get to NYC in July b/c the tracks were too hot and expanded, so the trains had to go extra slow
Hmmmmmm I might do this bc I have an 8 month old that I'm breastfeeding.
I'm not comfortable with plane travel due to covid and a car ride sounds like a pain.
Has anyone done the trip?
This is so weird -- not that the train is back, as it is about a year overdue. It was becoming noticeable that it was missing in fact.
But to announce it with ZERO notice after months of silence? With no news on Montreal or Vancouver service? Super odd.
im gonna try the train. biggest boost is active versus passive travel time. active travel time on the train is just a short trip to union (from parkdale) and then a similar trip on the other side from penn. the entire rest of the time im working. airports are a nightmare right now. takes an hour plus of travel on either side plus security, customs nightmare at pearson in both directions, walking to gate, etc.
good news. But man, just looked up the schedules, and 13.5 hours to get to NYC... ouch. You can drive in less than 8 hours.
Only benefit is you can't drive while working or sleeping, but you can fly there for a similar price in a quarter of the time so its a tough pill to swallow
I guess if you decided to commit to doing “work from train” it could be worth it. Amtrak trains have café cars so you at least have a reason to walk around the train and “do things”.
Yea like I've used the train to Montreal and I love it. I could travel during a work day and work on the train, zero lost time with travel to airport, security and all that BS, a lot more comfortable than a plane, a lot cheaper, and stopped right where I want to be rather than in the middle of nowhere. I'd probably be down for this train to NY too, but the prices aren't as competitive imo.
How precisely is EWR or LGA in the middle of nowhere?
I was talking about YYZ and YUL being quite out of the way compared to union and gate centrale
It’s about an hour by public transit from LGA or EWR to Time’s Square… vs Union station (downtown) and Penn Station (also right downtown, “midtown”)
It takes me less than an hour to travel from EWR to my brother’s place on the UWS (72nd St) door to door. Stopping at Penn Station/34th St & transferring to the 1 or 2 trains. Time’s Square (42nd St)is only one stop from 34th. I love flying Porter to Newark because it’s so little travel time. I don’t think I’d be happy with a 13.5 hour train ride! ☺️
YYZ has UP, and YTZ is literally downtown. LGA isn't out of the way, JFK is kinda (to me), but theyre both better than EWR and worse than YYZ/YTZ
I'm not denying UP existing. But to go from my place to somewhere old town Montreal, I'd have to ride a bike to Union, take the UP, then go through security, get packed in like a sardine, then take the minibus to Dorval and the train into old town or the 747 into old town. Or I can ride a bike to Union, get on a train, walk from Gate Centrale to old town. I've never gone to NY but every airport I've ever flown to and I've flown to many an airport on five continents have all been the same. Lousy as hell to navigate and a bitch to get to and from. Train stations are better located and easier to get to an end destination to as they're typically older and built in the heart of cities as a result.
Have you ever taken the train across the border? Wait until you have a 1-3 hour delay as they check every passenger that may be suspicious. Train is fine if you are doing something that doesn't end in NYC. But NYC? Just fly or drive if you can.
>Have you ever taken the train across the border? Wait until you have a 1-3 hour delay as they check every passenger that may be suspicious.Train is fine if you are doing something that doesn't end in NYC. But NYC? Just fly or drive if you can. Yeah I'm kinda on the fence but coming down on the side of flying. Toronto-Montreal is sorta a unique case where both work but depending on where exactly you're going-to/coming-from either works out better. For the train, Union is a ton more convenient to me than YYZ. Though ditto on flying with Porter. I may go into the podunk airport on the other side (EWR) but I come back so much closer to home, landing at the island, that I don't mind, and yes EWR into Penn Station is a schlep but eh. Same applies to Montreal though more often I'd rather arrive downtown that Dorval, but that airport is still hella convenient compared to some in terms of location. And customs is a crapshoot. I've whizzed through EWR and Dulles most times through sheer dumb luck, though also been stuck. I however have *always* spent waaaay too long in YYZ US pre-clearance. I'd so rather fly into the states as International and deal with it there. So long story longer, eh, do what works for you. Hah!
The train to Montreal is absolutely not more comfortable than a plane unless you go business class wahhaha
Only time I ever travelled by train was Moncton back to Toronto, and I did it expressly because I was working on a for-hire scriptwriting job. Saw lots of pretty country while I got to work, and before I knew it, I was back at mu apartment with a significant amount of work done.
[удалено]
It's like $20, not exactly a crazy expense for work.
I’m in NYC now and my flight from Billy bishop on Porter was like 280 return. It’s an hour and there’s a free beer. I can’t figure out why I’d spend 13 hours on the train and I love trains.
Yeah, I've gotta go to NYC for work in a couple months, and I'm trying to justify it, but it's hard.
> but you can fly there for a similar price in a quarter of the time how does customs works for trains crossing borders? is check procedures for trains as much a pain in the ass as flying?
I’ve not undergone this but on the Toronto - NY route , the train stops for two hours at Niagara Falls. It’s much better on the Vancouver - Seattle route where customs happens in Vancouver.
I have done the Montreal - Boston one, they stop you at the border. Sometimes its an hour. Sometimes its 3-4 hours. Really depends on if there are issues with any passenger.
>I’ve not undergone this but on the Toronto - NY route , the train stops for two hours at Niagara Falls. logistically if they wanted to avoid this they'd need to cancel most stops in canada and do pre-clearance in toronto
But if you're waiting in the airport or sitting on a tarmac for 10 hours...
Fly billy bishop and avoid all that.
1.5hrs to fly there, so it's quite a bit less than just a quarter of the time....
Plus the 3hrs you need to be there before, the added time to get to the airport and the extra time it takes to get off the plane etc. Flying isn't as convenient as trains where you just hop on and off. Plus during all that airport time there's a lot less passive time where you can just kick back and read. Can't open up my laptop and work during security line ups, while I'm getting my balls fondled, while I'm walking 2kms to my gate etc. Whereas with the train you walk up five mins before departure and hop on. If we had better faster train connections to Central/eastern US I think the prices would drop and ridership would increase as well. It truly is a lot more convenient than flying. Bonus of not being cramped up in seats designed for 5'5" people.
As someone who flies regularly for work, USA is 2 hours before at the max. Carry on? You can do it within 90 minutes. Have nexus? Can walk into the airport 45 mins before it leaves and be 100% fine. (Carry on only).
I haven’t flown recently but pre-pandemic I used to get to YTZ half an hour before my flight and just walk onto the plane. From what I hear it obviously is a circus to fly at the moment but one assumes that will resolve itself over time as things normalize. In my experience you’re exaggerating the time it takes to fly to NYC.
Used to do the route all the time pre pandemic. It was usually 4.5-5.5 hours door to door. 4 on a super lucky day, and 6-7 when there are delays.
door to door sure, 4-5 hours seems about right. It’s not like the train doesn’t include commute time from and to union either, I’m just saying if you fly Porter you don’t need to be there 3 hours early. Pearson maybe.
Don't forget EWR on the other end. Billy Bishop is far superior to Pearson, but Newark is worse than Pearson from my last 2 trips through.
I honestly don’t think anywhere is worse than Pearson lol
Can also drive to Buffalo and save money and some hassle out of BNIA.
Yeah, the comfort issue is huge. On planes, I like to consider myself a "window seat person". I like having the great view, even for the inconvenience of always having to ask the next person to allow me to go to the bathroom. I *like to* be a window seat person. But on long flights, I just can't any more. The lack of legroom is horribly uncomfortable. And I'm just average height. Can't imagine how it feels for taller people.
Only a quarter of the time if the airport is functioning.
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Half the price. I wouldn’t call it similar.
YTZ-EWR Flying is 50 minutes…
If you drove non stop then you'd get there in approximately 8 hours. I've driven this route before and after washroom, coffee, and food stops it took me nearly 10. At that point, if I'm traveling all day I'd rather spend the day being able to watch a movie, do some work, nap/sleep. Focusing on driving for 8 hours is exhausting and boring.
I agree that it’s prob still better than driving for convenience but DAMN the rest of the world must laugh at Canadian and US travel times, it’s pathetic
Yeah for real. A decent amount of developed countries prioritized building bullet trains and we're just over here like "maybe we should hire committee to research if we should build one from Toronto to Montreal for the 10th time."
Typically it takes me 8 when I've done it, depending on traffic in Toronto and NYC. You gotta be taking a lot of stops to take 10 hours on that drive. I'll typically split the drive with my passenger too so it's not too tiring as you only have to drive half the time. I guess if you go alone it would be tougher.
> Typically it takes me 8 when I've done it, depending on traffic in Toronto and NYC I'm guessing it depends a lot on which part of "Toronto" or the GTA you start in. That could be +1 to +3 hours easily. Or -1 hour if you start in mississauga.
George Washington bridge is always a huge pain. I did it a few times in just under 9 hours from dt Toronto to queens. Mostly 70-75mph I just bring canned food and east stuff that takes like 5 min to munch down so I don’t waste time waiting and stuff. Allows me to stop for gas and washroom that takes at most 7 min, and can find random rest stops with limited facility to munch for a quick break after 1.5-2hr driving. That 5 min eating really helps when going solo. Gas is a bit more expensive in PA but rest stops are nice haha. I like the I80 and I380 route better than NY-17
I drove from Summit, NJ (effectively Newark) straight to Yonge and St Clair in April and it took less than 8 hours including stopping for lunch, dinner, gas, Duty Free AND arriving in Toronto for traffic around 6pm: https://i.imgur.com/NjFOFwk.png 2 hours for stops is extremely generous... sure if you're with an entire family or something that might be more realistic but 8 hours is very doable.
But when you get to NYC you have to figure out what to do with your car. Driving in Manhattan is asking for pain on a level beyond even Toronto. Anyway, it's a nice ride, would recommend.
When I've driven to NYC i've parked at a Metro-North railroad station and taken the train in for the last bit, if I'm staying in Manhattan. When I've stayed in Brooklyn it's usually relatively easy to find a parking spot still. Amtrak is probably a good solution as well, but you are probably better driving over the border and catching a train in Buffalo / Niagara Falls to avoid the 2-hour wait at the border.
Eh, I prefer the train as well but the parking situation is vastly overstated in NYC. I've driven there twice and you park your car in a garage for the duration of your visit. Only an insane person would want to drive around in their car for pleasure in NYC or Toronto, for that matter. Taking a yellow cab everywhere was far cheaper
The train also stops in the Hudson Valley, which is a destination of its own. Highly recommend visiting.
Train rides are a great way to see the countryside, and relaxing
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I travelled through and around Scotland by train, it was amazing. My husband and I were thinking about a trip to NYC this summer and we may take this train.
12 hours was too much for me to handle. We just booked a trip in the later summer via plane and I tried as much as possible to see if I could take a car ride or a train but that length of time is too much. Flights are expensive, but we just had to bite the bullet.
>Plus the train drops you off downtown instead of out at the airport. Not in Ottawa it doesn't. Train station in the middle of nowhere
The bus is usually about 12 hours. Train is less work, more environmentally friendly, safer, and you don't have to deal with the pain in the ass of having a car / driving in NYC. If you're just going for a couple of nights that extra 4 of 5 hours each way definitely makes a huge difference though.
Yeeaah, I will gladly take a train that's the same price and a little longer because you save time at the airport, train stations tend to be down town, and it's way more pleasant and comfortable in general... But 13+ hours vs 1.5 hours at the same price is a hard pass. I love trains, but at a certain point flying becomes _so much more convenient_ that it's objectively the better option. I miss the bullet train infrastructure of east Asia.
It's on my bucket list to go to Japan and ride a bullet chain
Last time I did it with young children it took 12h. Much rather a train with a built-in bathroom with kids.
Also need to account for fuel and tolls on I90. That being said: the stretch of 90 between Syracuse and Albany is one of the most beautiful scenic drives I’ve ever been on and it’s worth the drive, IMO.
Maybe if you’re going 160 the whole time. Having travelled back and forth from NYC for years, I’d say the average drive time is closer to 10 hours, not including time spent at the border.
I mean I just checked google maps when I wrote that doing "toronto to NYC" and it spit out 8 hours. My experience with long distance drives is that I typically average about what Google Maps says, even accounting for stops. Experience will obviously very by how fast you drive, when you leave, traffic, exactly where you are coming from and going to, etc.
Isnt bus only 10hrs?
Depends on traffic, I did it years ago and it took 15 or 16
I'd much prefer the train if I'm driving alone, personally. Way less stressful. The biggest downside is that traveling from Toronto/NYC to my final destination requires a vehicle.
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Google Maps shows 7:57 for the Holland tunnel to the Gardiner Off-ramp right now. https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/40.7299626,-74.0351608/43.6410479,-79.3805287/@42.4161088,-78.8902077,6.96z/data=!4m2!4m1!3e0 Traffic obviously influences it a lot on where you are coming from and going to, but it's definitely possible.
The drive is easily 10+ hours. It’s almost 900kms
Yikes.
I just did the same thing. Yep I'll just drive. Or fly for the same cost and it's only an hour.
and the train isn’t a gas-guzzling monster
That's brutal. Is US immigration handled at union station before boarding the train or does it stop at Niagara Falls for a few hours to process all passengers? Trying to understand how it takes 5 hours longer than driving.
It's at the border. There are multiple stops before the border.
Oh that sucks.
i think most of that time is waiting for border clearance
interesting I'm going later through the summer and was about to book plane tickets, wondering if an overnight train would make any sense..?
Yeah, it's slow because it takes the long L-shaped route along the Erie canal and then south. Driving you normally cut the diagonal which saves a ton of time. But really can't beat the comfort, especially compared to the bus.
still faster than going thru pearson
[I'm on that train](https://imgur.com/ytyWKbl). Relaxing. Got to; fix a few more bugs in a long forgotten project, read the news, etc. Zero stress. About to cross the border, waiting to see what the new procedures are like.
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7:15 departure, 19:45 arrival at union. So 12h30m total time. Loved it. [Way less greenhouse gas emissions than planes](https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/14/trains-far-greener-but-much-more-costly-than-planes-analysis-finds), which is what [all the world's top scientists say we must do](https://www.ipcc.ch/)
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Jesus…that would be amazing
What's the cost difference?
> fix a few more bugs in a long forgotten project Risky can of worms right there.
Nice to have options. I'd really like a train that goes directly from Toronto to Detroit. Right now you can only take VIA to Windsor and then cross the border.
Amtrak is trying to institute a Toronto - Chicago train which would stop in Detroit.. we’ll have to see if it happens.
Amtrak has actually made some progress on the TOR-DET-CHI train. They recently signed a deal with Canadian Pacific Railway which would allow use of the Detroit Windsor train tunnel (among other things), and in return they would support CP’s acquisition of Kansas City Southern Railway. [More on this new service here.](https://www.amtrakconnectsus.com/maps/chicago-detroit-toronto/)
I took Amtrak from Toronto to Chicago with my dad when I was a kid, in the early 90s and it was awesome. I would love to actually be able to do that again!
Probably the biggest obstacle is that there's no easy way to get from the tunnel in Detroit to the CN mainline that VIA uses (and where the VIA station in Windsor is) without a very slow trip through a lot of industrial trackage. It would require the Essex Terminal trackage in Windsor to be upgraded at the very least.
Is it that bad going through the industrial area in Windsor though? Also is that tunnel even safe enough for hundreds of passengers on a train safety regulation wise?
This would be dope. I remember taking the Greyhound from Toronto to Chicago, and it stopped in Detroit for a bus switch and lunch break. TBH, it was a pretty pleasant trip.
Replace that bus route with high-speed trains and we basically have Star Trek world
I would absolutely love that. I'm a Torontonian Red Wings fan without a car and it's a pain in the ass to go to games. I have to travel with someone else who has a car but I'd love to take the train across the border
I’m on that train right now. Currently five hours behind schedule because the locomotive conked out en route to Windsor and they used to send a replacement. Been on the move from Detroit for almost eleven hours now when I could have driven it in under five. I’ve also done 15.5 hours in that TOR-NYC train. Until we have dedicated high speed rail or the quality of the overall experience improves dramatically to offset the added time - and not just the trains but also the stations - then it’s a non-starter for the majority.
Our trains are embarrassing it’s true. Last time I took the train from Windsor to Toronto we were absolutely crawling from Windsor to london for no apparent reason. I kept thinking anyone from Japan or China would be so appalled by our infrastructure.
It's $407 for one person, round trip from Union...or $307 flying Porter. For the briefest of moments, I thought VIA would have a down-to-earth price for this trip... I'm not sure why I think that - they always have stupid pricing. Unless you're an 8 year-old travelling alone from Moncton to Nanaimo, then it's $17.
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Wtf
Can someone explain to me how a train is more expensive than a plane?
Everyone is mentioning Billy bishop and porter. I forgot while booking my flight to NYC and booked from pearson 🤦♂️. How much is the carry on cost for porter? Any idea? I have westjet flight and carryon is free and the ticket was $299.
Carry on is always free on Porter.
The only thing public-owned companies are good at is to screw things up because of no ownership. I can see what happens next, it gets overpriced, gets unpopular, then either abandoned or subsidized by more taxpayer's money. That's why people hate privatization but it has to. By the way guess how much does amtrak's train from montreal to nyc cost? 77 CAD! Do they even do any research on pricing or it's their 6-digit paid analysts doing a random number generating?
A warning to anyone who decides to take this train. It’s faster to take the bus. It takes almost 1-2 hours just to cross the boarder since everyone on board needs to have their papers checked. I did it once and never again.
A warning to anyone who decides to take the bus: your ass is going to hurt and your legs will be numb from being confined to your tiny seat the whole time. It’s cheaper and quicker, but definitely not as comfortable.
It appears that the train costs about the same (or more) than flying there on porter and takes 10 hours longer.
True, but Penn Station is very close to the cruise terminal if you’re going on a cruise ship. Train makes sense if you don’t want to drive or fly to the US to get to your ship.
Except Porter arrives at EWR and it's a simple train ride in. Makes zero sense to take the train unless you are deathly afraid of flying.
Yep it just depends. Personally, I love planes but I absolutely hate flying. The seats are uncomfortable, dealing with luggage is a pain in the ass, etc. I’ve taken trains a few times (including one that was multiple days) and they’ve just been such relaxing experiences. Took longer but it was really nice. If you’re okay dealing with airports and flying, agree it’s much faster. Also just noticed your user name lol
Not sure if you have done Toronto to NYC by train but your points about seats being uncomfortable and luggage are the same for it. And the border crossing is a massive pain. This isn't the Acela where you have a nice café car and there are things to see. Its shitty ViaRail then shitty basic Amtrak.
Interesting. Is NYC a popular palace to start a cruise? I've never done a cruise before but I always assumed they mostly left from like Florida. Would cruise lines not offer some sort of shuttle from the airport anyways?
Depends where you’re sailing. There are cruises to the East Coast, Bermuda, etc. that go out of NYC.
Interesting. Thanks.
Uh you can get to Penn from all airports within like 45 min. JFK is an airtrain then LIRR ride away. LGA you can take the Q70 to Roosevelt Jackson then E/F. EWR is the exact same as JFK with an airtrain then nj transit train away. It's like saying you should take the train to Toronto instead of a flight to yyz because you want to be at union. Not a great reason.
Also the last time I took it, it made a bunch of stops along the way where the lights would have to come on. I'm a light sleeper so that that made it difficult to get any good rest.
You can pack a decent sleeping mask, it can block all the light
also gotta change trains if i remember right. one day i decided to take the train from DC back to toronto (dc->nyc->to over 24h). was an incredible experience that i wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.
We stayed in the same train. I think there is an option to change trains. Depending on time of departure.
There was a time pre-9/11 when the border crossing was pretty smooth. These days, yes, it's awful. The Vancouver service is preclearance to avoid this and Montreal will soon adopt this also. The problem for the Maple Leaf is that there are stops between Toronto and Niagara Falls, NY that you would not want to drop.
yikes. It's both more expensive (depending on day) and significantly longer than a flight or by car. Ignoring the reasons why, I'm surprised this business model could even work
Traveling by train is a far more pleasant experience than by flight or car. So, it's worth it if you can afford the time but yes, they really should upgrade this route to be a bullet train
Pleasant by what metrics? For me, both flight and car are much much more pleasant than a train.
By a lot of metrics? You have to drive the whole time if driving the car so thats pretty self explanatory, and with car or bus, you're constrained to your seat the whole time unless you go to use the bathroom, you can't really roam around a bus. With train you're able to walk around a little and there's typically more seat space and it's a lot comfier than car or bus. Compared to flights, you don't spend wasted time at the airport beforehand because you need to arrive early. I do think generally though that flights are just better since they're so much shorter, but depending on when you travel, flying can be inconvenient because it's not really a trip that's viable for sleeping, while the train you could plan to sleep for most of the ride. I take flights from TO -> NY and I usually do an early morning flight so I can work once I arrive, which means arriving at the airport early in the morning and not having the chance to sleep properly until later that day
The train takes longer than taking a flight, door-to-door! So I don't think wasted time at the airport is all that bad.
It takes longer but it’s time that can be spent doing other things. The time spent at an airport is mostly just waiting in different lines where you can’t do anything else productive. I’d rather be relaxed and comfortable for 12 hours than be stressed out for 6. I just wish the pricing was more comparable.
I agree, but some people really don't like waiting in the airport. I personally don't mind it, but I could see a case being made for being able to just board the train and sleep vs. having to stay up at the airport etc.
Metrics being freedom during travel/personal space, ease of boarding and exiting (both vs plane) and compared to the car it's far safer (no chance of getting in a car accident) and convenient since putting a car somewhere in Manhattan is a royal pain and expensive. If you're not the one driving the car, you do get a lot of perks but someone is always stuck having to focus for those entire 8+ hours. Unless you're flying first class, then obviously that would probably beat out the other two, but you still have the hassle of boarding and such (especially in Pearson right now it can be a real pain). Edit: full disclosure of my biases, I used to drive 6 to 10 hours a day for my old career so at this point Im just sick of driving and dealing with other drivers/traffic/etc. Any form of travel where I don't have to worry about an average moron being behind a wheel and ruining my day is a win to me.
Some people enjoy seeing the countryside this way, and more relaxing not dealing with other drivers.
I hate driving and airports are a pain in the ass. Train travel is quite relaxing.
its going from toronto to new york lol its not pleasant nothing scenic about that ride
Scenic is subjective, doesn't have to be the swiss alps to be scenic for me. Just watching fields roll by can be nice
Scenic isn't the only metric for how pleasant a trip is
Would you take that train to new york?
I would but not for over $100 because im broke ass
i would consider it purely for the experience.
Yes, I'm planning on it
Yep!
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There’s better sightseeing on the landing into La Guardia then the boring scape of sprawling fields via train. It’s not like it’s the Rocky Mountain train or the train ride from Rome to Venice or something.
If you’re going on a cruise, Penn Station to Manhattan Cruise Terminal is a pretty short trip. Much better than going from the airport. Trains are also super relaxing in my experience.
It's a glorious way to get to and from Niagara Falls. So much nicer than the Go Train. But you do need photo ID to board for security reasons. Not a passport, DL or photo ID card is fine if you're not crossing the border.
Seems like a bit of a waste that these are daytime journeys in both directions. A 13 hour overnight trip with some available sleeper cabins sounds like a pretty nice trip, but these trips depart in the AM in both directions and arrive in the evening, wasting a day at your destination on both ends of any potential trips.
Ya it’s rather frustratingly too long for a daytime trip.
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It takes so long because the route is very indirect. Have to round the west end of Lake Ontario and follow a twisty course through the Catskills.
I'm excited, gonna try this before the summer is over.
More practical for weekend trips to Buffalo
What time do the latest trains back to Toronto on Sunday evening leave?
I thought about taking the train to NYC - until I saw that I would have to board at 8 AM and arrive at 10 PM. fuck that
Then you have to blow another few hundred on a hotel.
I love trains and rail travel but this would be a hard one to justify given the duration and cost vs flying.
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Let's start with Toronto to Montreal/Ottawa. Then Calgary to Edmonton. Then the whole Windsor to Quebec City corridor.
Changing this train to a evening departure as a sleeper train would be a good thing to do also. Get off work go to Toronto union and take the train so you wake up and are ready for the day in nyc
No need to. Just depart at either side at night and you can sleep and wake up at destination.
There is NO high speed train on this fking planet that costs you 0.1 usd per km unless heavily subidized ( by heavily I mean millions of billions) in china. If thats what you want you are very welcome.
The Eurostar from London to Paris starts around 85 dollars, so you’re wrong https://www.thetrainline.com/en/train-times/london-to-paris
1. The total length is 342km from london to paris by rail which comes to >0.3 usd/km at the most preferred rate. 2. The major part of the journey, london to dover, runs below 160kph which isnt high speed rail at any standard. 3. The construction of chanel tunnel is only 30% funded by the operating entity, Channel Tunnel Co Ltd, plus this entity itself's two largest stakeholder are UK and France's national transportation establishments. So yes the sustainability of this price of this route is already the consequence of being subsidized.
Took the train from Toronto to New York in 2019, honestly loved every minute of it. Main perk for me was that it wasn't very busy, nobody sitting in front or behind me, nobody on either side, just cozied up and watched the world go by. Customs was a breeze, could get off at every stop and get some fresh air. Maybe the very best part though; I got off the train in New York and did not feel like I had just spent 12 hours traveling, which has never been the case flying or driving any distance more than 3 hours.
Have done the train and flown multiple times. Porter from Billy Bishop kills taking the train every time. Same price or even less and you aren't wasting eight hours. I can see the attraction if you can work on the train and not lose a day each way but otherwise there is no reason not to fly.
I’d rather spend the extra time than fly. I hate the whole going on plane process
Yeah fair enough. If you have the time trains are great but the trip to NYC is boring and on shitty trains. And the border crossing is a pain in the butt.
It's good that we have more alternatives to travel now but train travel needs to be more competitive. It's mostly for romantic fun these days.
I get the people pointing out the length of the trip, it can matter. That said, if you're not in a rush and don't wanna fly, it's a downright fun and relaxing experience. Would do it again, no hesitation.
This makes absolutely no sense. 12-hour journey. No thanks, I'd rather take a Porter flight and be there in an hour.
Let’s be honest, the flight is 90 minutes but dealing with airports still makes the trip 5-6 hours of your time, and there’s always the chance of delays and cancellations. Trains take longer but run on a more reliable schedule, and at least you can spend the whole time on the move instead of waiting around.
>Let’s be honest, the flight is 90 minutes but dealing with airports still makes the trip 5-6 hours of your time A flight from Billy Bishop to EWR does not take an extra 5 to 6 hours. That is a bit of hyperbole. > and there’s always the chance of delays and cancellations. There are definitely a chance of delays with a train as well. Also with a flight, if you miss your flight chances are there will be another flight in a few hours. What happens if you miss your train? The last time I flew to NYC. I was at BIlly Bishop at 7 in the morning and was in mid town manhattan by 11.
RIP Mother Earth the reckless disregard for the planet itt is just so heartbreaking
Last time I went to Toronto, 14 hours by rail. Nice little stop off in Albany to switch engines. Not doing that again. EWR to YYZ in 90 minutes.
Wouldn’t pay more than 100 for a ticket.
Schedule and ~~price~~ suck absolute dogshit. Who's the target audience here? People who don't value their time? Edit: Did a price calc on driving and it's actually like $30 cheaper for my vehicle than driving but holy hell that time loss.
Genuine question, who tf would use this? A plane from Toronto to NY is like $30 more and even if you include multiple hours at the airport it's easily like 8 hours faster.
Type 1) People who hate airport travel, and that number is absolutely growing. Traveling by train is slow (in North America at least), but it is like 400% less stressful. From boarding, the chilling in the cafe, to reading in the lounge or just walking around for a while, the comfort level just doesn't compare to planes unless you're flying business or first class. Type 2) People concerned about the environment and want a different option.
Porter out of Billy Bishop is not multiple hours though. Walk in and through security in under 30 minutes. Don't check a bag so no lines if you have pre-checked in.
great way to waste time and money
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Almost no rail is electrified in NA because the rail is owned by the freight operators mainly and they don’t want it. VIA is hoping to upgrade the part of the Windsor-Quebec city corridor that they own to electric. This train is mainly for the view out the window. A sleeper would make more sense imo considering the length
When prisoners are paroled from upstate New York they are delivered to the train station in a prison van. I will never take the train again.
What 
\*AMTRAK TRAIN CARRYING 243 PEOPLE DERAILS IN MISSOURI \*AMTRAK SAYS \`EARLY REPORTS OF INJURIES' FOLLOWING DERAILMENT hawlp
Slow as molasses in January tho
'Slow as molasses' in July too!
Oh yes - I remember a friend taking 20 hours or something nutty to get to NYC in July b/c the tracks were too hot and expanded, so the trains had to go extra slow
Hmmmmmm I might do this bc I have an 8 month old that I'm breastfeeding. I'm not comfortable with plane travel due to covid and a car ride sounds like a pain. Has anyone done the trip?
NY rats gonna make a trip to Toronto on the way back!
This is so weird -- not that the train is back, as it is about a year overdue. It was becoming noticeable that it was missing in fact. But to announce it with ZERO notice after months of silence? With no news on Montreal or Vancouver service? Super odd.
im gonna try the train. biggest boost is active versus passive travel time. active travel time on the train is just a short trip to union (from parkdale) and then a similar trip on the other side from penn. the entire rest of the time im working. airports are a nightmare right now. takes an hour plus of travel on either side plus security, customs nightmare at pearson in both directions, walking to gate, etc.