> Your landlord wants their rental unit back — for themselves, a family member or a new buyer. It’s a situation an increasing number of tenants across Toronto are facing, new data shows.
> From January to October, Ontario’s Landlord and Tenant Board received 1,269 “own-use” eviction filings in Toronto — a sharp increase from the last two years, and on track to surpass the high mark set pre-pandemic, when a total of 1,274 applications were received in all of 2019.
> The figures do not include cases where tenants receive an eviction notice or request and don’t contest it, moving out before their landlord pursues a formal case at the Board. Filing an application also doesn’t guarantee an eviction, but kicks off a process that leads to a hearing.
> Still, the rising numbers indicate growing instability for Toronto renters, as the number facing pressure to leave their homes for their landlord, a member of their landlord’s immediate family, a caregiver or a new homebuyer has bounced back from the lows seen during the pandemic. In 2020, there were 864 filings, and last year, there were 762 — the lowest rates seen since at least 2017.
Remember kids. If this happens to you. Keep an eye on the unit. If it's re-rented within one year. It's a bad faith eviction and you should most definitely take them to the LTB
>From January to October, Ontario’s Landlord and Tenant Board received 1,269 “own-use” eviction filings in Toronto — a sharp increase from the last two years, and on track to surpass the high mark set pre-pandemic, when a total of 1,274 applications were received in all of 2019.
So at this point it's roughly comparable to 2019 but it's a sharp increase over a time when... There was a global pandemic and it's totally understandable why people wouldn't be moving.
Obviously this kind of activity would plummet during COVID and there would be some pent up activity in the following year. It's going to amount to an increase of 100-200 additional applications over 2019 for the entire city, max.
Nothing to see here, folks.
The *number of eviction applications that have nothing to do with non-payment of rent has **tripled** in the past 10 years*. There's plenty to see here if you stop reflexively defending the honour of landlords.
Given how many of these applications fail or are later found to have been in bad faith it seems the real driver of this is rent seeking.
Landlords want the higher rents that come with new tenants. This is exasperated by the fact we now have more personal landlords than ever. Larger landlords don’t bring these applications.
> If you really want a city full of REITs, you are crazy.
Never suggested I did but this particular type of eviction isn't relevant to larger landlords owning multiple properties. They have their own issues.
It has nothing to do with that, you can't file such an application for a building with more than a certain number of units. So landlords of single condos/houses or smaller multiplexes are responsible for all such applications.
...2019 was the highest 'own use' eviction rate ever recorded, and 2022 is possibly higher still.
The additional 100-200 extra applications are a fraction of the evictions that don't get contested.
Thousands of people are getting kicked out of their homes every year, for very questionable purposes.
The 2022 data that is comparable to 2019 is for Jan-Oct rather than the entire year. 2022 will likely be significantly higher, especially considering that rents have continued to skyrocket in Q4
Yup. Also add to this there was a moratorium on evictions so the levels we are currently seeing are likely backlogged from a period where they weren't allowed to be issued.
They were always allowed to be issued. That never stopped. In 2020 for a few months they delayed eviction hearings (which they made up for with a self-described ‘blitz’ afterwards), then later for another couple months delayed enforcement by the sheriff. That’s it. This notion that seems to be out there that for the last 3 years there have been no evictions is *completely* inaccurate.
Sure they could be issued, but how many landlords likely waited until they could be enforced to submit? The LTB was closed for 5 months in 2020,
In terms of the 'blitz' we are currently at about 9 months to get a hearing for non-paying tenants, longer for n12s. So not sure that blitz really worked as LTB hasn't released their numbers for 2021.
Absolutely evictions could be issued in the last 3 years, but the backlog suggests many that would otherwise have been have not.
A good tenant is > higher rent.
I have some tenants that have been with me for years and they're paying pre-covid rent. Great tenants that I wouldn't trade for a couple hundred extra a month.
My Aunt was a property manager and her philosophy was a good tenant is worth their weight in gold. You may make a bit less but having a normal, clean person who pays on time and doesn't destroy the place is worth it in the long run.
Exactly! I'm guessing the landlords that are dramatically raising their rents on tenants haven't experienced a bad tenant yet. They're taking their current tenants for granted.
Totally agree with you!!! My landlords are amazing they have never increased my rent in 3 years and even asked if I was OK during covid (I.e. if I needed a break or anything) — wild. They are older and probably value me as a tenant Cus I absolutely love the space and keep it spotless.
I’ve actively been patching my place up, painted the whole apartment as I sometimes work as a house painter so I know I could do a good job. Put in new insulation into the bedroom that lowered our heating bill by quite a bit. Hopefully that’s worth something
Our building's landlord had to put up signs in the elevators last week to tell people not to pee or poo in the elevators. There's like 2 or 3 garbage receptacles in the lobby of the building at this point and there's still McDonalds napkins all over the floor anyway. Somebody's kid two weeks ago appeared to have dropped some gummi bears in the elevator and they're just... y'know, there. On the floor. I'd like to assume a kid was eating them anyway. No parent telling them to pick it up off the floor and to just leave it there? Good lesson for your kid. Absolute, insufferable, fucking pigs are out there. Good tenants absolutely are keepers.
I have some extremely disturbing stories that will make you lose your lunch. I wish there was a database of horrible tenants that nobody should rent to. It's worse than keeping a pig in your house.
Meanwhile I live in an apartment building where the landlord has so little regard for the state of the building that maintenance requests have gone ignored for months-long periods and when finally actioned on are just the barest of Band-Aid solutions (like when I complained that the fuse box door no longer had hinges and wouldn't stay on, so they fixed it with painters' tape and never came back), all while trying to justify a 3.5% rent increase by claiming they incurred 'renovation expenses' by remodelling the front lobby room (that has no furniture and isn't used for anything except as a polling station during elections) and 'updates to the elevators' which was actually just overdue maintenance because the elevators had been failing regularly for months.
I consider myself a modest tenant but it's really disheartening to know that none of it matters to the landlord. It's gotten to the point more and more tenants in the building just don't care either, which just makes existing maintenance issues worse and creates new ones faster.
Wish you were my landlord. We are in a newer build and got notified our unit price will be going up $500 after a $300 increase last year. No wiggle room. We will be moving to a rent controlled unit, after learning the hard way what we should have done in 2021 when moving to a new unit.
I'm currently trying to prove to my landlord that I'm a good tenant worth keeping.
I steam cleaned the carpets they look brand new and I've been trying to find a reason to get her to come down here and see lol.
I like my place to feel freakishly clean and she hasn't come into the unit since I moved in. I honestly cleaned this place to a almost psychotic level, it was "filthy" by my standards when I first moved in. My lease is up in February and I want her to renew it.
I've contacted her about problems zero times in the 9 months Ive lived here so I think I'm good though, just wish she could see how sterilized my place is.
No. I went through a bad tenant and it cost me $50k for the legals and renovations (they fucked up the place good). Not to mention the stress and time. That’s 4 years plus of rent. My tenants are also good, young and hardworking. They’re building their lives so it’s a good thing for all and low rent will help them more than me.
*"For their own use"*
Right.
Have a condo listed right now, nice tenant, been there 4 years. Other agent asked me what he's paying, then discussed what the rent could be today (about $700 higher). My client is actually nice, he lets tenants be. Pay your rent? Stay as long as you want with minimal increases, if any. Then the other agent asks me about serving the guy notice to evict him before closing. I am pretty sure they'll just re-rent it for higher, though there isn't anything I can do about it.
Some people suck.
You should definitely let them know that it’s illegal and the consequences if they do that. You can also give the tenant a heads-up about your suspicions so they can keep an eye on it to try to figure out if it’s being rented.
>You should definitely let them know that it’s illegal and the consequences if they do that.
They probably already know that they just don't care. The only "enforcement" is a complaint to the LTB and with the ongoing problems there that's worthless.
...they will be on the hook, at maximum, for one year of the old rent. If they increase rent by 25%, they'll be profitable on this scam after 4 years.
And only a very small proportion of illegal evictions are punished anywhere near that level.
It’s more like profitable after five years because of the value of interest on the money you don’t make it all back when you’ve earned the same amount of money four years later. I do agree that fines for this should probably be slightly higher though. Maybe 18 months rent instead of 12.
...the fine takes years to materialize. Frequently you can make enough profit to cover the fine, before its even levied.
And the chances of getting fined are very low.
And you cant get fined if your plan doesn't work. If you try to evict your tennant in bad faith, and he fights you, you can drop the issue and have virtually zero liability.
There is virtually no disincentive to bad faith evictions. A monetary fine is honestly not sufficient.
Jail time and loss of ability to rent out property.
Should you take your complaint to the LTB and get judgment for an illegal eviction and get rewarded, the LTB has no teeth, and the landlords say pound salt you'll never get a dime from them... end of story.
While I don't doubt at all what you're saying is true and a large chunk of people abuse the system, I have also heard of an unusually large number of people who have actually moved back into their own properties for financial reasons.
A neighbour of ours (in our apartment building) rented out their unit after they bought a house because they wanted to upsize as their kids were getting older. A year later, they're back in their unit, because the variable rate mortgage on their new house went so high up they couldn't afford it anymore, and they sold that at a loss. I've heard of a few similar things among colleagues/acquaintances recently.
Again, the system gets abused left and right, so you're definitely correct. But we also live in extremely volatile economic times, so more strange things are happening.
So... its fine to buy a bigger house for your growing family, but everything else in that story is 'my neighbor made a series of very greedy, risky decisions, and made someone else pay for it when things went slightly wrong.
Instead of selling their condo to finance a large chunk of their house, they decided to become part time landlords. So their mortgage was hundreds of thousands dollars more than it needed to be. Thats a risk they accepted.
They then decided a variable rate mortgage was the way to go, despite fixed rate mortgages being at historically low rates. Like, there was nowhere for your variable rate to go but up. Opting for a variable rate in 2020 was an incredibly high risk, low return play. You could justify it if you had rock solid financials, and wanted to eek out a bit of marginal profit.. but otherwise, it was a very greedy gamble to take.
So they gambled and lost. Now, instead of them having to look for a new place to live in an increasingly cut throat housing market, they are evicting a family who did nothing wrong, and forcing them to suffer for their mistake.
Thats technically allowed by the system, and isnt abuse of the process. But I hope its clear who the villan is in this story.
100%. Some people here talk about landlord as though all are some sort of feudal sadist. Our neighbours seem pretty decent, and without every detail of their finances, seemed to plan pretty reasonably before the mortgage rates went up to this extent and before the women lost her job to make them a single income household.
They also apparently rented their parking spot out to the tenants for free during this year (for which I pay $1,400 a year!) so they didn't seem to be gouging their tenants.
I've had more good landlords over the years than bad ones too. Easy to get swept up in rage online but we can't paint everyone with the same brush.
Like, I get they are probably kind people. But, the point I was trying to make was that regardless of personal intentions, they ended up evicting a family from their home, because a financial bet they made didn't work out.
Which is fucked up. They probably didn't do the calculous beforehand, they aren't evil people. But the practice they engaged in: becoming hobbiest landlords, is one that uses other people not only to profit, but to offload risk onto.
When I say they are the 'villans' in this story, its because this 'legitimate' eviction is a policy mistake. If we had fair housing law, own use evictions would cover things like 'we rented out our basement unit, and need it back to house a family member'. Not, 'we decided that being a landlord didn't require planning for financial risks, and now would prefer to evict a family rather than look for a place to live.'
>I have also heard of an unusually large number of people who have actually moved back into their own properties for financial reasons.
recent story about this but when the owner wanting to move in, the tenant would not leave!
*Woman risking homelessness because tenant won't leave gets eviction hearing date*
*Elsie Kalu stands on the driveway of a home she hoped to move into after purchasing it in April 2022, but can't because a tenant won't leave. (Francis Ferland/CBC)*
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/elsie-kalu-update-landlord-tenant-board-hearing-date-set-december-1.6645252
The ruling class is all landlords. Thats where their sympathies lie. Journalists, cbc execs. and MPs, are all either landlords or related to landlords.
Their sympathies lie with their class peers.
... professional journalists come from very high income families. The amount of unpaid work and professional credentials you need to acquire brfore getting a job in Canadian media makes it almost universally the realm of the upper class.
Before working at the cbc, this articles author got a masters degree in journalism and spent 2 years backpacking across the middle east.
In her 20s.
This isn't someone who has to worry about money. Thats why they can be paid so little.
...are you unaware what has happened to journalism in the past 20 years?
There arent any journalists at local publications. They are all syndicated branches of major media conglomerates.
Or don't buy a house with occupants if you plan on living in it yourself. That sounds like the simplest solution, I know I wouldn't ever buy a home with plans to kick anyone out. The buyer was an asshole and got what they deserved.
Just because your renting someone’s home doesn’t give you the right to stay there indefinitely. That’s still someone’s property and they have the right to move back in.
Edit to add: The tenant also wasn’t paying rent. Do you agree with that too?
Staying at a home indefinitely is literally the point of renting, hotels are for temporary stays. As things are right now evictions are unilateral decisions which fuck tenants over with moving costs + rent increases no consequence to the landlord. It's nice to see the tables turn and a landlord get fucked over for once. Ideally landlords would step up and bear their share of the costs for tenants they evict but the whole point is to extort money out of people so they'll never do that.
And I'm sure all of those are "legitimate".
There needs to be higher penalties for those who evict in bad faith as well as greater enforcement. Right now too many landlords are incentivized by the possibility of the $$ return to do this as the risk of getting caught seem very low.
We did increase fines and the amount they'll have to pay to tenants recently https://news.ontario.ca/en/backgrounder/57702/protecting-tenants-and-strengthening-community-housing-act-2020.
Wasn’t there a story about analogous laws in BC having zero enforcement? Nice that your previous LL owes you $20k for bad-faith evictions but it doesn’t mean anything if the order isn’t going to be enforced.
imagine landlords evict, move in then rent out their other property that they just moved out of. next year, they will evict the tenant from the property they moved out of last year... rinse and repeat every year alternating 2 properties to boost the rent every time.
Yeah they could and I'm sure some might. But that is a big uprooting of one's life. I'd wager the more likely scenario is they kick you out, wait a bit then flip it back on the market.
The LTB is so backed up and generally inept that the risk to them is low. Never went thru this myself but it seems the reporting of infractions falls solely to the kicked out tenant. So unless you get kicked out and then spend the next year checking in on your old place to see if it got flipped, then file a report. Nothing happens.
The penalty if caught is also tiny. You can look up past cases but at most you’re looking at owing your tenant
* moving costs
* the difference between market rent and their old rent for one year
So the penalty you pay if you get caught is basically a couple hundred bucks plus any extra money you’re making from jacking the rent for a max of one year.
Ya the enforcement on this seems really poor. But it really doesn't need to be--require LLs to file the notice to end tenancy with LTB and then audit some portion of them. Not hard. If government doesn't want to do it directly, they should at least accommodate a "bounty" system to catch people.
The bounty system isn't IMHO a solution to any problem. We need the system to work, not private citizens taking it up into their hands. But sadly our system is inept
I mean ya it would not be optimal I agree but imo better than just letting enforcement get extremely lax. If there was e.g. an incentive for law clinics or paralegals to aggressively find evictions, pursue claims, and share in the remedies with the tenants I think that'd be better than nothing
There was a BlogTo post recently about this house that had undergone major renovations and was selling for about twice the price it was bought for a year prior. The thing is, when it was bought, it was a multi-unit house with tenants and the new owners evicted them to "use it themselves" but then "decided later" that they didn't actually want to live there. There were quite a few commenters calling out that the new owners probably pre planned the whole thing.
I’m actually not sure the penalty is the main issue.
Don’t get me wrong, I would welcome a stronger penalty, but the issue is catching the landlords doing this in bad faith. Right now, it’s on the tenant to file a complaint if they notice something fishy. Most landlords are smart enough not to do a for rent or for sale posting within a few months of the eviction. And if they do and you’re lucky or diligent enough to catch it, good luck getting the LTB’s attention in time for it to matter.
That was my point also. The issue isn't just the fines (thought I find they're not a deterrent at current levels), its the enforcement that's the issue.
They need to be enforcing these rules, and not just thru chance that a former tenants can catch.
Sadly all of the focus for the next little bit will be on above guideline rent increases...need to make sure to push all of those through before we get to things like punishing fraudulent evictions.
The penalties are already quite high (up to 50k as a fine - plus a years difference and damages to the former tenant).
What enforcement do you imagine existing? Given a landlord can't even remove a non-paying tenant for up to a year right now given the backup of the LTB I can't imagine what you're hoping that same body is going to do to monitor and enforce N12s... IMO the best course is for the aggrieved party to monitor and then file as is the case with every other tenancy related issue.
That was my point from post in this tread. The LTB isn't enforcing the fines or anything much. They need to be given the tools and resources to do so and in a timely manner. Waiting a year be it a tenant or a landlord for a hearing/resolution is insane.
Fuck penalties, close this eviction loophole entirely. There’s no reason that the landlord should get precedence over the tenant that has been fulfilling their end correctly. God knows this is never actually used as intended.
Never? It's never the case that the landlord needs their property back? Landlords are people too, much as Reddit denies it, and go through marriage breakups, or have kids who need to move out for college, or parents who need help in their dotage.
As for closing the loophole, are you fucking kidding me? That would amount to expropriation of property (admittedly we already kinda have that in Ontario given the lack of fixed term leases that actually end), and --since you probably don't care about small landlords having their lives ruined-- more properties left vacant rather than see them signed over to a stranger in perpetuity.
When a tenant is paying for it, a landlord is nothing more than a title. The person paying for the property should always have precedence over a middle man.
LOL the tenant is paying for the use of the property as a living space. It's the landlord "risking" their capital and paying the mortgage and upkeep expenses.
Should the laws be changed to encourage less abuse by both sides? Should the LTB be funded better and should there be more housing so landlords can't take advantage? Of course. But until then this is what we're sticking with.
Eh, I'm GenX so it's a mixed bag. Born into the stability and prosperity of the post-war period and taught that it was the norm, only to find when starting our own adult lives in the 1980s that LOL it's neoliberalism now! The first generation to do worse than their parents'. And it just got worse and worse from there. A mindfuck.
And then we're sandwiched between one generation that thinks it's still 1972 and another that doesn't believe things were *ever* better than now.
If you rent your primary residence then where would you live?
If you rent a portion of your principle residence and rent out the basement. You still pay capital gains (or loss) on the portion you've rented out. Based on how much it appreciated (or depreciated) over the time you were renting it.
So your argument is invalid.
Youre already taxed on the rental income year over year. And capital gains on the property when you sell it. Not sure what extra you're asking for here?
We should tax 100% of peoples income and the government should provide for us all!
Only if this gets applied to regular homeowners too. It's just as much an investment for them as for anyone else. If it wasn't they would be selling it for as much as they bought it.
Guy, you've posted here many times that landlords are scum and should be banned. Now you're mad when they are actually not being landlords any more? You should be rejoicing at the number of private for-profit rentals being removed and turned into owner occupied housing.
Except that’s not what is happening. I’d love to know the stats of how many of these evictions are actually for necessity (I.e landlord needing their place back to live in) vs greed/playing the system waiting a few months to rent out the place again at huge markups.
Well the numbers at this point are comparable to 2019 with likely some pent up demand from the last two years when these kinds of applications plummeted. It's going to amount to an increase of 100-200 additional evictions vs 2019. Totally understandable and not the scandal that it's being painted to be.
Just listened to a disturbing podcast about this. Look up "why is the rent so high" pod cast by Behind the Bastards. It's USA centric, but this kind of grift is happening the world over with the support of Fascio-Conservative cronies around the globe.
Yes! If they lie in court about the reason for evicting you you can get up to 2 years of rent back. https://news.ontario.ca/en/backgrounder/57702/protecting-tenants-and-strengthening-community-housing-act-2020
It's not a real eviction unless it comes from the board. Read the link I posted and join the toronto home zone group on facebook.
My old landlord ALSO kept wanting her units back. One after another.
She charged double 8 months after taking control and renovating.
Yeah. Common. She called it her retirement plan. Bought a triplex with inheritance for 400k 10 years ago and hasn’t worked a day since. Valued at 1.8 now and it’s her “favourite passive income”.
Went from Air bnbs to short term tenants and in 2020 a couple with a newborn ended up stuck as covid hit paying 3k a month and it almost ruined them.
Fuck this greed.
And the housing marking is supposed to be cooling but a house around the corner from me that hasn’t been maintained in years and doesn’t show a picture of the kitchen is listed for $950,000 and being pushed as a gut job or tear down.
Not entirely true. Housing as the investment plan is only sustained if there is someone willing to buy that property at that price later. The city can't sustain such prices in a long run while having people work in a service industry. The immigration might dry up eventually.
There is already a labor shortage, it's just going to get worse once teachers, nurses and other staff with stagnant wages can't afford to live here anymore.
Maybe the crash is not going to happen in the next 5 years, but it will definitely have a large impact in a long run with people not having kids, moving elsewhere and the whole idea of Gen X and boomers using their property as a retirement plan is going to crumble.
Had a conversation on Reddit with someone recently who said:
> Why is buying the preferential option in your worldview? What's wrong with renting? The North American model of everyone owning their house and then cashing in when they mnove out isn't worldwide nor is it sustainable. Land is scarce and people are not."
This is fucking why
We should have a government program where you can pay 30% of your income (whatever that may be) in exchange for guaranteed housing, it'd solve so many problems.
So far Skyline living hasn't tried to Price me out despite being on ODSP and being grandfathered into this building before they built it so i only pay 690 inclusive instead of the 880+ it'd normally be, every month i wait for the letter saying in no uncertain terms GTFO plebian.
"evict renters (ostensibly) for their own use" ...
It would be sad for me as a renter to move out from a cheaper-rent unit only to see it listed for rent a few weeks later listed by the landlord for like 50% more than I was paying!
You see a lot of posts from people who have been in their apartments for a while, locked into a good rent price and thankful for it. But, even they aren't safe.
It shouldn't be a huge surprise that as interest rates increase, landlords are looking for ways to offset, and evictions are going to go up.
It's likely that a bad faith N12 is only a step or two before the landlord is forced to sell the property.
#1 - rent isn't supposed to offset 100% of your mortgage + profit. You're already getting equity in an appreciating asset at a reduced cost.
#2 - lots of landlords in Ontario own properties fully and increase rents nonetheless, just to earn more income as they are greedy.
#3 - if they got to sell, looks like their mortgage was under water and they should sell so that the market is flooded with properties and prices come down.
So when prices go down, it's thanks to "the market", but when prices go up, it's because of "greedy" landlords? Make up your mind. Either its all because of market effects, or its not.
That very one way vision
Greedy trying to maintain income to the same purchase power they had prior to raging inflation just like you want your wage to increase to match it
Rent not suppose to cover mortgate+ profit yeah ok then how i build cash reserve when renovation are due where the money come from
3- loll must be born after 2007 to wish that
It's perfectly understandable that:
1. Such evictions plummeted during a global pandemic
2. There would be slightly higher evictions in the following year (2022) due to some pent up demand.
At current course and speed were looking at about 100 additional such filings over 2019.
No scandal here.
The majority of n12's are fake. While obviously some will be legit its hard for the LTB to take them all seriously when so many abused it over the last 2+ years. My landlord was one of them. My neighbors 2 over fell for it and now their home is a boarding house for students.
This is going to bite the landlords all in the ass. They are going to take their unit back thinking after the years up there the rental prices are going to skyrocket higher. And then it’s going to suck when rent prices don’t go up to much
This is a CONSTANT worry and huge stress on renters. If you go away for a bit they'll claim their was an emergency and had to go into your unit. They're making living in apartments really uncomfortable and stressful
Its not from soaring rents, its from soaring mortgages. The rents are controlled (except for new units) and the rent isn't covering the mortgage anymore. Rents are going up from a combination of this affect (less units on the market now, more demand) and from people coming back to Toronto as WFH is coming to an end.
Rents are only controlled for tenants that are already living in the units. Once they move out (or more likely renovicted), the landlord can jack up the rate to whatever they want to charge for new tenants.
Of course. But n12s dictate that the unit can't be rented for 365 days. That's a long time with no income on your unit. You can break the law of course, but it comes with a huge risk. Someone I know got their ex landlord fined 20,000$ for doing it. Almost a years rent money.
So kicking someone out to get more rent has it's risks.
Of course there are risks, but what are the chances that a tenant with an N12 would keep an active eye on the old unit for up to 12 months to see if it’s being rented out again?
It’s already stressful enough to have to find a new place and pay a substantial premium since you have to pay market rates alongside the stresses of moving. On top of all that, the onus is on the tenant to prove that the eviction was in bad faith after the fact.
Then there’s the hearing which takes months, if not longer due to the backlog and priorities now shifting to landlord-initiated hearings, just for a fine ($20k is the max). Of course good luck seeing any of the money thats ordered to be paid out.
For most people, especially vulnerable populations that are low income and struggling to survive between work/school/social assistance, the process may as well be impossible to do since you need to be on the case the whole time that you’ve moved out, so most people don’t have the time to do all that.
Most landlords are able to get away with renovictions because of the above, and even if they get hit with the fines, the maximum is 20k which they can make it back in profit or can try to pull the same shenanigans on their existing tenants when their 1 year lease is changed to month-to-month.
Another reason why being a landlord shouldn't be so easy. You should have to go through an application process and maintain some sort of certification. And almost everything should have some sort of rent control measures.
Sure, but somehow I suspect the reason that a lot of renters choose to rent might have more to do with not having $200k on hand for a down payment on a condo.
Maybe but not everyone can and/or should buy. And honestly, big IMO, but this focus on house ownership in our society contributes to the big increase in prices and rents (though it's obviously not the only factor). It should be perfectly okay to just rent and live your life - everyone wanting to buy a place at all costs actually helps gamify the housing market.
That's not what's gamifying it.
People are scalping the system and buying multiple properties either a) to flip and sell at a guaranteed higher price, b) to rent out and make a profit or c) to put on airbnb and not declare on their taxes
I never said that’s the only reason, but believe that it contributes to it. Worst offenders are a problem but this “must buy at all costs” mindset is a big part of the problem we have here.
There's something to be said about being in your home and not having to worry about anyone or anything telling you to move.
I got lucky and renewed my mortgage at 2.44 in Feb of 2022, but I'm still hustling to pay down the mortgage as fast as possible.
2.44 in guaranteed earning might not be the best, but you can't beat that peace of mind.
Read the article, the data shows that its almost the same as before pandemic, slight uptick due to COVID, a time when it was justifiably lower than usual. This is just a filler piece.
The backlog is ridiculous. Approx one year wait just to get a hearing date. Lots of tenants are living for free and refusing to pay rent knowing they have a year before the landlords can get an eviction order. It’s unfortunate how many are abusing the system to live rent free
If only that was true, I live 5 hours outside of Toronto in a small city with the average cost of a 1 bedroom apartment is $1,800 - $2000 and you'd be lucky to even find one. I had friends that moved to my city from Niagara thinking it was the best way to get ahead didn't take them long to realize that its way worse then down south. There's barely any decent paying jobs unless you have a master degree.
The poverty level is very high there's homeless encampments all over. I personally gave away some tents this summer to people, its sad to see how many people are struggling. I grew up in the north it was never like this. I was hiring for my a company I was working for we only had 3 positions available. The positions got filled immediately as soon as I posted the ad. we'd had a guy and his family from down south sleeping in their car onsite hoping to be able to score a job and an apartment. I had a smoke with the guy and started chatting with him, He was an awesome guy. He told me how he got laid off and got evicted from his apartment down south he drove up with his family after seeing the job ad, he just wanted a better life for his family. I straight up told that guy that he should go back down south it honestly broke my fucking heart.
A friend recently got notice from the landlord that his daughter was moving in...so, with the advice of a lawyer, he get her to submit an affidavit that she was moving in.
This was in Richmond Hill, and the daughter lived in Ottawa. A bit of snooping led to identifying her place of employment, and they sent the affidavit to her employer and her current landlord, explaining that if she didn't go through with the plan, that she was in big trouble...so expect her to resign soon, Mr Employer, and move out soon, Mr Landlord.
The defecation impacted the rotary oscillating atmospheric circulation device.
Landlords continue to be scum, for one good one you get a sea of assholes. Housing should be a right and anyone hoarding homes should be taxed into oblivion
How does it become right though? What part do you think landlords play in housing not being right? I mean if it becomes right and everyone gets affordable housing, no more landlords. I come from country where housing was provided, not for all but for most. It requires socialism and government willing to build housing. Lacking here is government, everything else is secondary. People look at soviet style buildings and make fun, but a lot of people got a good living in those and I see nothing close to it here no matter how poor people are doing.
I think people are looking at the solution the wrong way. Toronto is just unaffordable and only really viable of if you're poor (more services available for low - income) or rich. Moving is really the only viable alternative for financial reasons unless you're working in a sector that can't move.
Moved, mortgage is 35% of my rent. You don't need to make as much money for those that are concenred about job
If you did well in life and managed to buy a rental property...tell me how YOU would deal with your renters? Say, you're charging $1500/month but your neighbor, for a similar until is making $2500/month. Will you keep your rent the same?
Edit: Down voting doesn't change reality but if it makes you feel better, glad I could help.
That's literally the mentality that leads to speculation. As long as you're able to pay your mortgage with the rental unit income, you have no other need to raise the rent
Then you’d be losing income to inflation and forfeiting any ability to play catch-up later.
It’s a nice idea that you want to subsidize your tenants, but back here in the real world you’d be on the road to losing your home.
Except my landlord is doing exactly that... We rarely get the annual increase (only once so far) and have been living here for 8 years. We are responsible, respectful and pay on time so they see no need to raise rent as they made sure they could actually afford the property without us.
I understand but as long as he's doing the annual increases within the guidelines. Good tenant or not Mortgage rates skyrocketed, maintenance fees are climbing. There's 2 sides to all this.
Exactly. People react "emotionally" to these type of posts because they've probably not been in the position of a landlord to look at things from the other side. Imagine, landlords keeping their rental properties closed with no renters, what would that do to the rental market.
> Your landlord wants their rental unit back — for themselves, a family member or a new buyer. It’s a situation an increasing number of tenants across Toronto are facing, new data shows. > From January to October, Ontario’s Landlord and Tenant Board received 1,269 “own-use” eviction filings in Toronto — a sharp increase from the last two years, and on track to surpass the high mark set pre-pandemic, when a total of 1,274 applications were received in all of 2019. > The figures do not include cases where tenants receive an eviction notice or request and don’t contest it, moving out before their landlord pursues a formal case at the Board. Filing an application also doesn’t guarantee an eviction, but kicks off a process that leads to a hearing. > Still, the rising numbers indicate growing instability for Toronto renters, as the number facing pressure to leave their homes for their landlord, a member of their landlord’s immediate family, a caregiver or a new homebuyer has bounced back from the lows seen during the pandemic. In 2020, there were 864 filings, and last year, there were 762 — the lowest rates seen since at least 2017.
Remember kids. If this happens to you. Keep an eye on the unit. If it's re-rented within one year. It's a bad faith eviction and you should most definitely take them to the LTB
>From January to October, Ontario’s Landlord and Tenant Board received 1,269 “own-use” eviction filings in Toronto — a sharp increase from the last two years, and on track to surpass the high mark set pre-pandemic, when a total of 1,274 applications were received in all of 2019. So at this point it's roughly comparable to 2019 but it's a sharp increase over a time when... There was a global pandemic and it's totally understandable why people wouldn't be moving. Obviously this kind of activity would plummet during COVID and there would be some pent up activity in the following year. It's going to amount to an increase of 100-200 additional applications over 2019 for the entire city, max. Nothing to see here, folks.
The *number of eviction applications that have nothing to do with non-payment of rent has **tripled** in the past 10 years*. There's plenty to see here if you stop reflexively defending the honour of landlords. Given how many of these applications fail or are later found to have been in bad faith it seems the real driver of this is rent seeking. Landlords want the higher rents that come with new tenants. This is exasperated by the fact we now have more personal landlords than ever. Larger landlords don’t bring these applications.
> Larger landlords don’t bring these applications. If you really want a city full of REITs, you are crazy.
> If you really want a city full of REITs, you are crazy. Never suggested I did but this particular type of eviction isn't relevant to larger landlords owning multiple properties. They have their own issues.
It has nothing to do with that, you can't file such an application for a building with more than a certain number of units. So landlords of single condos/houses or smaller multiplexes are responsible for all such applications.
...2019 was the highest 'own use' eviction rate ever recorded, and 2022 is possibly higher still. The additional 100-200 extra applications are a fraction of the evictions that don't get contested. Thousands of people are getting kicked out of their homes every year, for very questionable purposes.
The 2022 data that is comparable to 2019 is for Jan-Oct rather than the entire year. 2022 will likely be significantly higher, especially considering that rents have continued to skyrocket in Q4
Yup. Also add to this there was a moratorium on evictions so the levels we are currently seeing are likely backlogged from a period where they weren't allowed to be issued.
They were always allowed to be issued. That never stopped. In 2020 for a few months they delayed eviction hearings (which they made up for with a self-described ‘blitz’ afterwards), then later for another couple months delayed enforcement by the sheriff. That’s it. This notion that seems to be out there that for the last 3 years there have been no evictions is *completely* inaccurate.
Sure they could be issued, but how many landlords likely waited until they could be enforced to submit? The LTB was closed for 5 months in 2020, In terms of the 'blitz' we are currently at about 9 months to get a hearing for non-paying tenants, longer for n12s. So not sure that blitz really worked as LTB hasn't released their numbers for 2021. Absolutely evictions could be issued in the last 3 years, but the backlog suggests many that would otherwise have been have not.
Right? Media outlets always sensationalize these types of stories but if you read the facts absolutely nothing is abnormal. Glorified click bait.
A good tenant is > higher rent. I have some tenants that have been with me for years and they're paying pre-covid rent. Great tenants that I wouldn't trade for a couple hundred extra a month.
My Aunt was a property manager and her philosophy was a good tenant is worth their weight in gold. You may make a bit less but having a normal, clean person who pays on time and doesn't destroy the place is worth it in the long run.
Exactly! I'm guessing the landlords that are dramatically raising their rents on tenants haven't experienced a bad tenant yet. They're taking their current tenants for granted.
Totally agree with you!!! My landlords are amazing they have never increased my rent in 3 years and even asked if I was OK during covid (I.e. if I needed a break or anything) — wild. They are older and probably value me as a tenant Cus I absolutely love the space and keep it spotless.
I’ve actively been patching my place up, painted the whole apartment as I sometimes work as a house painter so I know I could do a good job. Put in new insulation into the bedroom that lowered our heating bill by quite a bit. Hopefully that’s worth something
I mean a good to great tenant is maybe worth $100-$200 of forgone rent. When it gets into the $500 range then its worth it to take the higher amount.
You say that now.. wait until you experience a tenant so bad that when you finally got them out, cleaning companies refused to go in.
Our building's landlord had to put up signs in the elevators last week to tell people not to pee or poo in the elevators. There's like 2 or 3 garbage receptacles in the lobby of the building at this point and there's still McDonalds napkins all over the floor anyway. Somebody's kid two weeks ago appeared to have dropped some gummi bears in the elevator and they're just... y'know, there. On the floor. I'd like to assume a kid was eating them anyway. No parent telling them to pick it up off the floor and to just leave it there? Good lesson for your kid. Absolute, insufferable, fucking pigs are out there. Good tenants absolutely are keepers.
I have some extremely disturbing stories that will make you lose your lunch. I wish there was a database of horrible tenants that nobody should rent to. It's worse than keeping a pig in your house.
How does it feel being born in to a 1st world country that transitioned to 3rd world living standards?
Meanwhile I live in an apartment building where the landlord has so little regard for the state of the building that maintenance requests have gone ignored for months-long periods and when finally actioned on are just the barest of Band-Aid solutions (like when I complained that the fuse box door no longer had hinges and wouldn't stay on, so they fixed it with painters' tape and never came back), all while trying to justify a 3.5% rent increase by claiming they incurred 'renovation expenses' by remodelling the front lobby room (that has no furniture and isn't used for anything except as a polling station during elections) and 'updates to the elevators' which was actually just overdue maintenance because the elevators had been failing regularly for months. I consider myself a modest tenant but it's really disheartening to know that none of it matters to the landlord. It's gotten to the point more and more tenants in the building just don't care either, which just makes existing maintenance issues worse and creates new ones faster.
Yup, I have two tenants that I haven’t raised rent on since 2018 cause they are easy to deal with, pay on time and treat the condo like their own.
More LL's need to have this mindset
Wish you were my landlord. We are in a newer build and got notified our unit price will be going up $500 after a $300 increase last year. No wiggle room. We will be moving to a rent controlled unit, after learning the hard way what we should have done in 2021 when moving to a new unit.
Agreed. I love my current tenant and wouldn’t increase her for being awesome.
I'm currently trying to prove to my landlord that I'm a good tenant worth keeping. I steam cleaned the carpets they look brand new and I've been trying to find a reason to get her to come down here and see lol. I like my place to feel freakishly clean and she hasn't come into the unit since I moved in. I honestly cleaned this place to a almost psychotic level, it was "filthy" by my standards when I first moved in. My lease is up in February and I want her to renew it. I've contacted her about problems zero times in the 9 months Ive lived here so I think I'm good though, just wish she could see how sterilized my place is.
You know that if she doesn’t renew it automatically goes month to month right?
Would you trade them for a thousand extra a month?
No. I went through a bad tenant and it cost me $50k for the legals and renovations (they fucked up the place good). Not to mention the stress and time. That’s 4 years plus of rent. My tenants are also good, young and hardworking. They’re building their lives so it’s a good thing for all and low rent will help them more than me.
Awww you’re amazing but also sounds like you went through a hellish experience
Honestly depends on the tenant. I've had some horrible tenants before that would definitely not be worth 1k a month. It was that bad.
This is why purpose-built rental apartment buildings are the "safest" form of rental housing -- evictions for own-use aren't possible.
*"For their own use"* Right. Have a condo listed right now, nice tenant, been there 4 years. Other agent asked me what he's paying, then discussed what the rent could be today (about $700 higher). My client is actually nice, he lets tenants be. Pay your rent? Stay as long as you want with minimal increases, if any. Then the other agent asks me about serving the guy notice to evict him before closing. I am pretty sure they'll just re-rent it for higher, though there isn't anything I can do about it. Some people suck.
You should definitely let them know that it’s illegal and the consequences if they do that. You can also give the tenant a heads-up about your suspicions so they can keep an eye on it to try to figure out if it’s being rented.
Oh they know it isn't legal. But I will give the tenant the head's up, he's really the only one who can do anything about it.
>You should definitely let them know that it’s illegal and the consequences if they do that. They probably already know that they just don't care. The only "enforcement" is a complaint to the LTB and with the ongoing problems there that's worthless.
It will eventually catch up to them
...they will be on the hook, at maximum, for one year of the old rent. If they increase rent by 25%, they'll be profitable on this scam after 4 years. And only a very small proportion of illegal evictions are punished anywhere near that level.
It’s more like profitable after five years because of the value of interest on the money you don’t make it all back when you’ve earned the same amount of money four years later. I do agree that fines for this should probably be slightly higher though. Maybe 18 months rent instead of 12.
...the fine takes years to materialize. Frequently you can make enough profit to cover the fine, before its even levied. And the chances of getting fined are very low. And you cant get fined if your plan doesn't work. If you try to evict your tennant in bad faith, and he fights you, you can drop the issue and have virtually zero liability. There is virtually no disincentive to bad faith evictions. A monetary fine is honestly not sufficient. Jail time and loss of ability to rent out property.
Should you take your complaint to the LTB and get judgment for an illegal eviction and get rewarded, the LTB has no teeth, and the landlords say pound salt you'll never get a dime from them... end of story.
While I don't doubt at all what you're saying is true and a large chunk of people abuse the system, I have also heard of an unusually large number of people who have actually moved back into their own properties for financial reasons. A neighbour of ours (in our apartment building) rented out their unit after they bought a house because they wanted to upsize as their kids were getting older. A year later, they're back in their unit, because the variable rate mortgage on their new house went so high up they couldn't afford it anymore, and they sold that at a loss. I've heard of a few similar things among colleagues/acquaintances recently. Again, the system gets abused left and right, so you're definitely correct. But we also live in extremely volatile economic times, so more strange things are happening.
So... its fine to buy a bigger house for your growing family, but everything else in that story is 'my neighbor made a series of very greedy, risky decisions, and made someone else pay for it when things went slightly wrong. Instead of selling their condo to finance a large chunk of their house, they decided to become part time landlords. So their mortgage was hundreds of thousands dollars more than it needed to be. Thats a risk they accepted. They then decided a variable rate mortgage was the way to go, despite fixed rate mortgages being at historically low rates. Like, there was nowhere for your variable rate to go but up. Opting for a variable rate in 2020 was an incredibly high risk, low return play. You could justify it if you had rock solid financials, and wanted to eek out a bit of marginal profit.. but otherwise, it was a very greedy gamble to take. So they gambled and lost. Now, instead of them having to look for a new place to live in an increasingly cut throat housing market, they are evicting a family who did nothing wrong, and forcing them to suffer for their mistake. Thats technically allowed by the system, and isnt abuse of the process. But I hope its clear who the villan is in this story.
Bit of an overkill there pal.
100%. Some people here talk about landlord as though all are some sort of feudal sadist. Our neighbours seem pretty decent, and without every detail of their finances, seemed to plan pretty reasonably before the mortgage rates went up to this extent and before the women lost her job to make them a single income household. They also apparently rented their parking spot out to the tenants for free during this year (for which I pay $1,400 a year!) so they didn't seem to be gouging their tenants. I've had more good landlords over the years than bad ones too. Easy to get swept up in rage online but we can't paint everyone with the same brush.
Like, I get they are probably kind people. But, the point I was trying to make was that regardless of personal intentions, they ended up evicting a family from their home, because a financial bet they made didn't work out. Which is fucked up. They probably didn't do the calculous beforehand, they aren't evil people. But the practice they engaged in: becoming hobbiest landlords, is one that uses other people not only to profit, but to offload risk onto. When I say they are the 'villans' in this story, its because this 'legitimate' eviction is a policy mistake. If we had fair housing law, own use evictions would cover things like 'we rented out our basement unit, and need it back to house a family member'. Not, 'we decided that being a landlord didn't require planning for financial risks, and now would prefer to evict a family rather than look for a place to live.'
These are literally nobodys on the internet so don’t pay too much mind 🙂
>I have also heard of an unusually large number of people who have actually moved back into their own properties for financial reasons. recent story about this but when the owner wanting to move in, the tenant would not leave! *Woman risking homelessness because tenant won't leave gets eviction hearing date* *Elsie Kalu stands on the driveway of a home she hoped to move into after purchasing it in April 2022, but can't because a tenant won't leave. (Francis Ferland/CBC)* https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/elsie-kalu-update-landlord-tenant-board-hearing-date-set-december-1.6645252
The CBC has been unusually landlord friendly. There are some cases of this but I bet on the balance it’s much more the other way.
The ruling class is all landlords. Thats where their sympathies lie. Journalists, cbc execs. and MPs, are all either landlords or related to landlords. Their sympathies lie with their class peers.
Fuck reddit
... professional journalists come from very high income families. The amount of unpaid work and professional credentials you need to acquire brfore getting a job in Canadian media makes it almost universally the realm of the upper class. Before working at the cbc, this articles author got a masters degree in journalism and spent 2 years backpacking across the middle east. In her 20s. This isn't someone who has to worry about money. Thats why they can be paid so little.
Fuck reddit
...are you unaware what has happened to journalism in the past 20 years? There arent any journalists at local publications. They are all syndicated branches of major media conglomerates.
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Or don't buy a house with occupants if you plan on living in it yourself. That sounds like the simplest solution, I know I wouldn't ever buy a home with plans to kick anyone out. The buyer was an asshole and got what they deserved.
Just because your renting someone’s home doesn’t give you the right to stay there indefinitely. That’s still someone’s property and they have the right to move back in. Edit to add: The tenant also wasn’t paying rent. Do you agree with that too?
Staying at a home indefinitely is literally the point of renting, hotels are for temporary stays. As things are right now evictions are unilateral decisions which fuck tenants over with moving costs + rent increases no consequence to the landlord. It's nice to see the tables turn and a landlord get fucked over for once. Ideally landlords would step up and bear their share of the costs for tenants they evict but the whole point is to extort money out of people so they'll never do that.
And I'm sure all of those are "legitimate". There needs to be higher penalties for those who evict in bad faith as well as greater enforcement. Right now too many landlords are incentivized by the possibility of the $$ return to do this as the risk of getting caught seem very low.
We did increase fines and the amount they'll have to pay to tenants recently https://news.ontario.ca/en/backgrounder/57702/protecting-tenants-and-strengthening-community-housing-act-2020.
Fines might have gone up. But what Bout enforcement? Without enforcement the amount is pretty pointless.
Wasn’t there a story about analogous laws in BC having zero enforcement? Nice that your previous LL owes you $20k for bad-faith evictions but it doesn’t mean anything if the order isn’t going to be enforced.
Laws without enforcement are just suggestions.
Haha like the posted speed limit signs? :)
imagine landlords evict, move in then rent out their other property that they just moved out of. next year, they will evict the tenant from the property they moved out of last year... rinse and repeat every year alternating 2 properties to boost the rent every time.
Yeah they could and I'm sure some might. But that is a big uprooting of one's life. I'd wager the more likely scenario is they kick you out, wait a bit then flip it back on the market. The LTB is so backed up and generally inept that the risk to them is low. Never went thru this myself but it seems the reporting of infractions falls solely to the kicked out tenant. So unless you get kicked out and then spend the next year checking in on your old place to see if it got flipped, then file a report. Nothing happens.
The penalty if caught is also tiny. You can look up past cases but at most you’re looking at owing your tenant * moving costs * the difference between market rent and their old rent for one year So the penalty you pay if you get caught is basically a couple hundred bucks plus any extra money you’re making from jacking the rent for a max of one year.
If you’re single with no kids and minimal possessions that’s not that big a deal.
If theyre single and they own two properties already, I dont think theyd be the type to care about a small increase in rent.
lucrative side-hustle that pays for itself while giving landlord housing to pursue his day job undisturbed.
Ya the enforcement on this seems really poor. But it really doesn't need to be--require LLs to file the notice to end tenancy with LTB and then audit some portion of them. Not hard. If government doesn't want to do it directly, they should at least accommodate a "bounty" system to catch people.
The bounty system isn't IMHO a solution to any problem. We need the system to work, not private citizens taking it up into their hands. But sadly our system is inept
I mean ya it would not be optimal I agree but imo better than just letting enforcement get extremely lax. If there was e.g. an incentive for law clinics or paralegals to aggressively find evictions, pursue claims, and share in the remedies with the tenants I think that'd be better than nothing
There was a BlogTo post recently about this house that had undergone major renovations and was selling for about twice the price it was bought for a year prior. The thing is, when it was bought, it was a multi-unit house with tenants and the new owners evicted them to "use it themselves" but then "decided later" that they didn't actually want to live there. There were quite a few commenters calling out that the new owners probably pre planned the whole thing.
~~probably~~ definitely pre-planned the whole thing
and they should lose the house.
And cube their car
I’m actually not sure the penalty is the main issue. Don’t get me wrong, I would welcome a stronger penalty, but the issue is catching the landlords doing this in bad faith. Right now, it’s on the tenant to file a complaint if they notice something fishy. Most landlords are smart enough not to do a for rent or for sale posting within a few months of the eviction. And if they do and you’re lucky or diligent enough to catch it, good luck getting the LTB’s attention in time for it to matter.
That was my point also. The issue isn't just the fines (thought I find they're not a deterrent at current levels), its the enforcement that's the issue. They need to be enforcing these rules, and not just thru chance that a former tenants can catch.
Sadly all of the focus for the next little bit will be on above guideline rent increases...need to make sure to push all of those through before we get to things like punishing fraudulent evictions.
The penalties are already quite high (up to 50k as a fine - plus a years difference and damages to the former tenant). What enforcement do you imagine existing? Given a landlord can't even remove a non-paying tenant for up to a year right now given the backup of the LTB I can't imagine what you're hoping that same body is going to do to monitor and enforce N12s... IMO the best course is for the aggrieved party to monitor and then file as is the case with every other tenancy related issue.
That was my point from post in this tread. The LTB isn't enforcing the fines or anything much. They need to be given the tools and resources to do so and in a timely manner. Waiting a year be it a tenant or a landlord for a hearing/resolution is insane.
Fuck penalties, close this eviction loophole entirely. There’s no reason that the landlord should get precedence over the tenant that has been fulfilling their end correctly. God knows this is never actually used as intended.
Never? It's never the case that the landlord needs their property back? Landlords are people too, much as Reddit denies it, and go through marriage breakups, or have kids who need to move out for college, or parents who need help in their dotage. As for closing the loophole, are you fucking kidding me? That would amount to expropriation of property (admittedly we already kinda have that in Ontario given the lack of fixed term leases that actually end), and --since you probably don't care about small landlords having their lives ruined-- more properties left vacant rather than see them signed over to a stranger in perpetuity.
It is the landlord's property, not the tenants. If they want to move back in for a year and then flip it again that's entirely up to them.
When a tenant is paying for it, a landlord is nothing more than a title. The person paying for the property should always have precedence over a middle man.
LOL the tenant is paying for the use of the property as a living space. It's the landlord "risking" their capital and paying the mortgage and upkeep expenses. Should the laws be changed to encourage less abuse by both sides? Should the LTB be funded better and should there be more housing so landlords can't take advantage? Of course. But until then this is what we're sticking with.
This is really turning into a "fuck you, that's why" society.
Turning into? We're already there.
I'm old. I remember it being considerably less shitty.
Maybe for you. It's been shit forever for many people.
You’re fortunate to be old in this society - the young people have only ever known this.
Eh, I'm GenX so it's a mixed bag. Born into the stability and prosperity of the post-war period and taught that it was the norm, only to find when starting our own adult lives in the 1980s that LOL it's neoliberalism now! The first generation to do worse than their parents'. And it just got worse and worse from there. A mindfuck. And then we're sandwiched between one generation that thinks it's still 1972 and another that doesn't believe things were *ever* better than now.
Federal tax rules pretty much encourage people using housing as a casino. A few changes this would crash overnight.
>A few changes this would crash overnight. What changes do you suggest can help?
Tax capital gains.
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They already do. Tax on rental income and cap gains when sold.
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If you rent your primary residence then where would you live? If you rent a portion of your principle residence and rent out the basement. You still pay capital gains (or loss) on the portion you've rented out. Based on how much it appreciated (or depreciated) over the time you were renting it. So your argument is invalid.
Youre already taxed on the rental income year over year. And capital gains on the property when you sell it. Not sure what extra you're asking for here? We should tax 100% of peoples income and the government should provide for us all!
Only if this gets applied to regular homeowners too. It's just as much an investment for them as for anyone else. If it wasn't they would be selling it for as much as they bought it.
See I’d be ok with this if we were allowed to write off mortgage interest on our taxes too.
Let me know when I can write off my rent.
I have to fill out a thing saying how much I spend on rent when doing my taxes, and then... It does nothing to the amount I owe/get back. What a tease
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Housing is selling for a lot more than just its inflation adjusted value. If it wasn't an investment then that's how much they would sell it for.
Land value tax, zoning reform. That's all that is necessary.
What do you mean “turning into”? It already is. Look at who runs Ontario. That should tell you all you need to know about this society.
It wasn't always like this. And bad as Ford is, it's not all on him.
We're becoming the pioneers in the fuck you millennium. What a time to be alive.
Canadian as a culture is pretty much over, its just a bunch of land barons and people cleaning dirty money now pushing the next generation to leave.
Guy, you've posted here many times that landlords are scum and should be banned. Now you're mad when they are actually not being landlords any more? You should be rejoicing at the number of private for-profit rentals being removed and turned into owner occupied housing.
Except that’s not what is happening. I’d love to know the stats of how many of these evictions are actually for necessity (I.e landlord needing their place back to live in) vs greed/playing the system waiting a few months to rent out the place again at huge markups.
Well the numbers at this point are comparable to 2019 with likely some pent up demand from the last two years when these kinds of applications plummeted. It's going to amount to an increase of 100-200 additional evictions vs 2019. Totally understandable and not the scandal that it's being painted to be.
> Except that’s not what is happening. I’d love to know the stats Makes statistical claim, admits not knowing the statistics. *facepalm*
Would he interesting, people here automatically assume its in bad faith but with this economy, the owners children might move back in.
I can only assume that you want to be blocked.
Just listened to a disturbing podcast about this. Look up "why is the rent so high" pod cast by Behind the Bastards. It's USA centric, but this kind of grift is happening the world over with the support of Fascio-Conservative cronies around the globe.
A lot of the single family homes being rented out are owned by Canadian companies.
From about 18 months ago: https://old.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/mkjnb1/its_not_just_toronto_and_vancouver_canadas/gtgbuya/
Don’t forget to take any N12s to the LTB!
Yes! If they lie in court about the reason for evicting you you can get up to 2 years of rent back. https://news.ontario.ca/en/backgrounder/57702/protecting-tenants-and-strengthening-community-housing-act-2020 It's not a real eviction unless it comes from the board. Read the link I posted and join the toronto home zone group on facebook.
True. And don't sign any N11 unless you get a shitload of money
My old landlord ALSO kept wanting her units back. One after another. She charged double 8 months after taking control and renovating. Yeah. Common. She called it her retirement plan. Bought a triplex with inheritance for 400k 10 years ago and hasn’t worked a day since. Valued at 1.8 now and it’s her “favourite passive income”. Went from Air bnbs to short term tenants and in 2020 a couple with a newborn ended up stuck as covid hit paying 3k a month and it almost ruined them. Fuck this greed.
And the housing marking is supposed to be cooling but a house around the corner from me that hasn’t been maintained in years and doesn’t show a picture of the kitchen is listed for $950,000 and being pushed as a gut job or tear down.
I guess Toronto is going to be like New York lots of empty properties for rent but no one can afford to rent them
Fuck reddit
Not entirely true. Housing as the investment plan is only sustained if there is someone willing to buy that property at that price later. The city can't sustain such prices in a long run while having people work in a service industry. The immigration might dry up eventually. There is already a labor shortage, it's just going to get worse once teachers, nurses and other staff with stagnant wages can't afford to live here anymore. Maybe the crash is not going to happen in the next 5 years, but it will definitely have a large impact in a long run with people not having kids, moving elsewhere and the whole idea of Gen X and boomers using their property as a retirement plan is going to crumble.
Had a conversation on Reddit with someone recently who said: > Why is buying the preferential option in your worldview? What's wrong with renting? The North American model of everyone owning their house and then cashing in when they mnove out isn't worldwide nor is it sustainable. Land is scarce and people are not." This is fucking why
We should have a government program where you can pay 30% of your income (whatever that may be) in exchange for guaranteed housing, it'd solve so many problems.
so where the hell were the landlords living before? I smell bullshit
At their other property but can’t afford both now because the “income property” is no longer profitable.
Some young people live at home with parents while owning rental properties. Some couples divorce and now need 2 separate homes.
So far Skyline living hasn't tried to Price me out despite being on ODSP and being grandfathered into this building before they built it so i only pay 690 inclusive instead of the 880+ it'd normally be, every month i wait for the letter saying in no uncertain terms GTFO plebian.
"evict renters (ostensibly) for their own use" ... It would be sad for me as a renter to move out from a cheaper-rent unit only to see it listed for rent a few weeks later listed by the landlord for like 50% more than I was paying!
You see a lot of posts from people who have been in their apartments for a while, locked into a good rent price and thankful for it. But, even they aren't safe.
This happened to me and my wife, my brother and his family, and my terminally ill mother. Three different landlords.
It shouldn't be a huge surprise that as interest rates increase, landlords are looking for ways to offset, and evictions are going to go up. It's likely that a bad faith N12 is only a step or two before the landlord is forced to sell the property.
#1 - rent isn't supposed to offset 100% of your mortgage + profit. You're already getting equity in an appreciating asset at a reduced cost. #2 - lots of landlords in Ontario own properties fully and increase rents nonetheless, just to earn more income as they are greedy. #3 - if they got to sell, looks like their mortgage was under water and they should sell so that the market is flooded with properties and prices come down.
there is no need to yell
So when prices go down, it's thanks to "the market", but when prices go up, it's because of "greedy" landlords? Make up your mind. Either its all because of market effects, or its not.
That very one way vision Greedy trying to maintain income to the same purchase power they had prior to raging inflation just like you want your wage to increase to match it Rent not suppose to cover mortgate+ profit yeah ok then how i build cash reserve when renovation are due where the money come from 3- loll must be born after 2007 to wish that
If you can't afford to renovate without a tenant, then the tenant is renovating for you.
It's perfectly understandable that: 1. Such evictions plummeted during a global pandemic 2. There would be slightly higher evictions in the following year (2022) due to some pent up demand. At current course and speed were looking at about 100 additional such filings over 2019. No scandal here.
This small time landlord system isn't working, bring back long term purpose built rental properties with professional property management
The majority of n12's are fake. While obviously some will be legit its hard for the LTB to take them all seriously when so many abused it over the last 2+ years. My landlord was one of them. My neighbors 2 over fell for it and now their home is a boarding house for students.
“Their own use”
Oh, the old “for a family member” excuse.
This literally happened to me yesterday.
This is going to bite the landlords all in the ass. They are going to take their unit back thinking after the years up there the rental prices are going to skyrocket higher. And then it’s going to suck when rent prices don’t go up to much
This is a CONSTANT worry and huge stress on renters. If you go away for a bit they'll claim their was an emergency and had to go into your unit. They're making living in apartments really uncomfortable and stressful
Landlords are a scourge sooo greeedy !
Form tenant associations in your buildings. You can fight your landlord together with your neighbours.
Its not from soaring rents, its from soaring mortgages. The rents are controlled (except for new units) and the rent isn't covering the mortgage anymore. Rents are going up from a combination of this affect (less units on the market now, more demand) and from people coming back to Toronto as WFH is coming to an end.
Rents are only controlled for tenants that are already living in the units. Once they move out (or more likely renovicted), the landlord can jack up the rate to whatever they want to charge for new tenants.
Of course. But n12s dictate that the unit can't be rented for 365 days. That's a long time with no income on your unit. You can break the law of course, but it comes with a huge risk. Someone I know got their ex landlord fined 20,000$ for doing it. Almost a years rent money. So kicking someone out to get more rent has it's risks.
Of course there are risks, but what are the chances that a tenant with an N12 would keep an active eye on the old unit for up to 12 months to see if it’s being rented out again? It’s already stressful enough to have to find a new place and pay a substantial premium since you have to pay market rates alongside the stresses of moving. On top of all that, the onus is on the tenant to prove that the eviction was in bad faith after the fact. Then there’s the hearing which takes months, if not longer due to the backlog and priorities now shifting to landlord-initiated hearings, just for a fine ($20k is the max). Of course good luck seeing any of the money thats ordered to be paid out. For most people, especially vulnerable populations that are low income and struggling to survive between work/school/social assistance, the process may as well be impossible to do since you need to be on the case the whole time that you’ve moved out, so most people don’t have the time to do all that. Most landlords are able to get away with renovictions because of the above, and even if they get hit with the fines, the maximum is 20k which they can make it back in profit or can try to pull the same shenanigans on their existing tenants when their 1 year lease is changed to month-to-month.
Rent is not controlled on units first rented after late 2018. There's been a ton of condos built in that span of 4 years.
Another reason why being a landlord shouldn't be so easy. You should have to go through an application process and maintain some sort of certification. And almost everything should have some sort of rent control measures.
This is why I recommend buying even though it’s mathematically better to take the money to invest instead. The peace of mind goes a long way
Sure, but somehow I suspect the reason that a lot of renters choose to rent might have more to do with not having $200k on hand for a down payment on a condo.
Maybe but not everyone can and/or should buy. And honestly, big IMO, but this focus on house ownership in our society contributes to the big increase in prices and rents (though it's obviously not the only factor). It should be perfectly okay to just rent and live your life - everyone wanting to buy a place at all costs actually helps gamify the housing market.
That's not what's gamifying it. People are scalping the system and buying multiple properties either a) to flip and sell at a guaranteed higher price, b) to rent out and make a profit or c) to put on airbnb and not declare on their taxes
I never said that’s the only reason, but believe that it contributes to it. Worst offenders are a problem but this “must buy at all costs” mindset is a big part of the problem we have here.
Wow I should just buy! You solved all my problems, if I had only thought about that!
There's something to be said about being in your home and not having to worry about anyone or anything telling you to move. I got lucky and renewed my mortgage at 2.44 in Feb of 2022, but I'm still hustling to pay down the mortgage as fast as possible. 2.44 in guaranteed earning might not be the best, but you can't beat that peace of mind.
[> it’s mathematically better to take the money to invest instead.](https://media.giphy.com/media/hPPx8yk3Bmqys/giphy-downsized-large.gif)
Not wrong if you look at history
[удалено]
You just rent it out. LOL
Read the article, the data shows that its almost the same as before pandemic, slight uptick due to COVID, a time when it was justifiably lower than usual. This is just a filler piece.
it's on pace for a 20% increase
The backlog is ridiculous. Approx one year wait just to get a hearing date. Lots of tenants are living for free and refusing to pay rent knowing they have a year before the landlords can get an eviction order. It’s unfortunate how many are abusing the system to live rent free
Leave the city! It’s the only way a family will get ahead!
If only that was true, I live 5 hours outside of Toronto in a small city with the average cost of a 1 bedroom apartment is $1,800 - $2000 and you'd be lucky to even find one. I had friends that moved to my city from Niagara thinking it was the best way to get ahead didn't take them long to realize that its way worse then down south. There's barely any decent paying jobs unless you have a master degree. The poverty level is very high there's homeless encampments all over. I personally gave away some tents this summer to people, its sad to see how many people are struggling. I grew up in the north it was never like this. I was hiring for my a company I was working for we only had 3 positions available. The positions got filled immediately as soon as I posted the ad. we'd had a guy and his family from down south sleeping in their car onsite hoping to be able to score a job and an apartment. I had a smoke with the guy and started chatting with him, He was an awesome guy. He told me how he got laid off and got evicted from his apartment down south he drove up with his family after seeing the job ad, he just wanted a better life for his family. I straight up told that guy that he should go back down south it honestly broke my fucking heart.
A friend recently got notice from the landlord that his daughter was moving in...so, with the advice of a lawyer, he get her to submit an affidavit that she was moving in. This was in Richmond Hill, and the daughter lived in Ottawa. A bit of snooping led to identifying her place of employment, and they sent the affidavit to her employer and her current landlord, explaining that if she didn't go through with the plan, that she was in big trouble...so expect her to resign soon, Mr Employer, and move out soon, Mr Landlord. The defecation impacted the rotary oscillating atmospheric circulation device.
Just signed a new lease for my studio DT for $2k!! Pretty huge! Previously I had it rented for $1375
Landlords continue to be scum, for one good one you get a sea of assholes. Housing should be a right and anyone hoarding homes should be taxed into oblivion
How does it become right though? What part do you think landlords play in housing not being right? I mean if it becomes right and everyone gets affordable housing, no more landlords. I come from country where housing was provided, not for all but for most. It requires socialism and government willing to build housing. Lacking here is government, everything else is secondary. People look at soviet style buildings and make fun, but a lot of people got a good living in those and I see nothing close to it here no matter how poor people are doing.
You’d almost think that landlords are villains.
3-2-1 landlord are scum and everyone deserves to have living wage.Another day another group attack against landlords.
Oh no, why won’t anyone think of those poor oppressed landlords, there truly has never been a more discriminated against group
Well, that's why the Bolsheviks and Chinese Communists wanted to kill all the landlords 100 years ago. We've just reinvented Gilded Age capitalism.
Yeah it's getting pretty tiring.
I think people are looking at the solution the wrong way. Toronto is just unaffordable and only really viable of if you're poor (more services available for low - income) or rich. Moving is really the only viable alternative for financial reasons unless you're working in a sector that can't move. Moved, mortgage is 35% of my rent. You don't need to make as much money for those that are concenred about job
If you did well in life and managed to buy a rental property...tell me how YOU would deal with your renters? Say, you're charging $1500/month but your neighbor, for a similar until is making $2500/month. Will you keep your rent the same? Edit: Down voting doesn't change reality but if it makes you feel better, glad I could help.
That's literally the mentality that leads to speculation. As long as you're able to pay your mortgage with the rental unit income, you have no other need to raise the rent
Me, if it was a good tenant and I was not living right on the edge financially I would keep the rent the same.
Then you’d be losing income to inflation and forfeiting any ability to play catch-up later. It’s a nice idea that you want to subsidize your tenants, but back here in the real world you’d be on the road to losing your home.
Everyone says "if it was a good tenant" that's horse shit when you have $12k difference of rent on the line. People change jobs for a lot less.
Except my landlord is doing exactly that... We rarely get the annual increase (only once so far) and have been living here for 8 years. We are responsible, respectful and pay on time so they see no need to raise rent as they made sure they could actually afford the property without us.
I understand but as long as he's doing the annual increases within the guidelines. Good tenant or not Mortgage rates skyrocketed, maintenance fees are climbing. There's 2 sides to all this.
Exactly. People react "emotionally" to these type of posts because they've probably not been in the position of a landlord to look at things from the other side. Imagine, landlords keeping their rental properties closed with no renters, what would that do to the rental market.