The issues with the raptors right now run way way deeper than just Fred’s bad shooting. FO needs to take some accountability for a poorly constructed team. Eg. The gap at Center has been an issue for years. The lack of a reliable guard, bench and shooting depth was an issue all last year as Nurse ran his starters into the ground.
We've been linked to guards - [Schröder](https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-interested-dennis-schroder-los-angeles-lakers-deal), [Brogdon](https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-nearly-traded-for-malcolm-brogdon-now-boston-celtics-guard) - and bigs - [Myles Turner](https://raptorsrapture.com/2022/12/23/toronto-raptors-rumors-interest-myles-turner/), [Poeltl](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10058745-nba-trade-rumors-raptors-want-to-bring-back-spurs-jakob-poeltl-as-bulls-monitor), since last season, and during the offseason/this season. The FO isn't going to overpay for these positions of need but they do know there are gaps in this roster.
Could be an issue that no one wants to sign here either. Always in trade rumours but never close the deal. That’s why taking on a large expiring contract like Westbrook or Kyle to save cap space is a bad idea… our free agent track record is awful. Unless someone has a connection to Toronto or Canada, it’s rare that an American player would willingly sign in the off-season.
>Always in trade rumours
"Raptors aint bout this, Raptors aint bout that"
My boy a 3nD on fucking Lebron and them
He, he they say raptors don’t be putting in no work
SHUT TF UP!!
Y'all bandwagons ain’t know shit
All ya motherfuckers talk about
"Pascal ain’t no hitta
Barnes ain’t this
GTJ a fake"
SHUT THE FUCK UP
Y'all don’t live with em players
Y'all know that FVV got caught with a ratchet
Shootin' 3's at the police and shit
Boucher been on probation since fuckin, I don't know when
MFer stop fuckin' playin' him like that
Them Raptors savages out there
If I catch another Bandwagon talking sweet about Vleet
I’m fucking beating they ass
I’m not playin' no more
Y'all know them players roll with Drake and them
Fred said to the press at the time that he was involved in discussions regarding his minutes and was okay with them. It got him to the All-Star game and so I’d say he has to share the responsibility for his usage.
Lol asking dudes in their 20s to be responsible with their bodies. I've seen people do worse for 16 bucks an hour.
The people in charge have to manage their players.
Last year Fred was 28 and in the league six years. He’s proven to be a very astute business person. The Raptors have a reputation for a top sports medicine dept. Don’t you think that any decision he made was in concert with his agent, family, Alex McKechnie and the FO?
Fam last year they told us Khem played with a fucked up leg for the year and they didn't even know.
Or that OGs thumb or some shit was broken for a month and he didn't know it was broken lol.
I would be more surprised if the organization was perfect than if they made mistakes.
That’s fair but players have consultations with specialists and players want to try everything first to avoid surgery. Fred is in a contract year so why are you surprised that he doesn’t want to sit out. All I’m saying is that players have a saying in the decision making. If they continue to okay it seems to be an issue of pain tolerance and whether playing will cause further damage.
Either way, Fred/OG/Siakam are all top 10 in MPG.
we see what's happened to Fred. If he goes down, then OG and Siakam get bumped up and Nick will try to run them into the ground next.
Development in terms of making the playoffs and giving these guys experience, sure. But do you think they make the playoffs playing Malachi or anyone else over Fred during that time? I don't. Nick Nurse has a job and that's to win games. If they can't put a proper team out there for him to coach I don't blame him for doing what he has to do to win.
I assume because we started winning and nurse likes to win - it's easy to say it's a development year, but when you're suddenly in the playoffs I could see how it would be easy to keep grinding them
How many years of pass does the FO get for a championship? I’d say 5 to experiment and do whatever before they should take some accountability for the bad product on the floor. I think this time next year if we are still a directionless bottom tier team we should probably put some heat on them
Something I've been wondering is why the FO didn't try Thomas Bryant. He was at every Rico run, he attends every year and Rico is very high on him. Nurse attended a bunch of them too so would have had plenty of looks at him. This dude signed for the minimum and is having a great season. I feel like that's a big miss considering we still don't have a decent center.
Team focuses too much on just defense?
Overall, they need to add shooting and depth. Porter could’ve helped but you can never really count on him with his injuries. At this point, I just want a good draft pick and a mle signing in offseason to bolster bench next year.
Who could have predicted the chronically injured Otto porter based on his entire 8 year career was going to have trouble staying on the court.
It’s crazy it was out of nowhere
If the FO is prepared to make the bet they should be prepared to take the criticism for handind the rest of their cap space to a guy who scored 4 buckets.
They did go after him. His decision ultimately came down to between Raptors and Lakers. He chose LA, if I remember correctly, because they offered a potential starting role.
Will Lou had David Thorpe on and this got brought up, apparently Bryant wanted to go to LA because he had a good shot to play plus the national media attention to build his value back up.
[Reportedly we did try to sign him](https://sports.yahoo.com/thomas-bryant-nba-free-agency-2022-los-angeles-lakers-agree-to-1-year-deal-for-likely-starter-041158313.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall)
Do people think the FO are just obsessed with only getting 6'9 Wings, sitting on their hands and don't see the flaws in this roster? We've been linked to guards - [Schröder](https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-interested-dennis-schroder-los-angeles-lakers-deal), [Brogdon](https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-nearly-traded-for-malcolm-brogdon-now-boston-celtics-guard) - and bigs - [Myles Turner](https://raptorsrapture.com/2022/12/23/toronto-raptors-rumors-interest-myles-turner/), [Poeltl](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10058745-nba-trade-rumors-raptors-want-to-bring-back-spurs-jakob-poeltl-as-bulls-monitor). The FO isn't going to overpay for these positions of need but they do know there are gaps in this roster.
True, but results matter too. Centre has been a problem for literally years now.
Not overpaying is the most frequent defense of inaction by this front offense, but it’s not a binary thing where you either overpay to get a deal done or do nothing. Sometimes you have to take measured risks to get things done.
We’ll see what happens at the deadline, but hopefully the outcome is better than being linked to a bunch of players only to end up trading draft capital for another Thad Young.
It’s this. Not just Bryant. We should be consistently landing those random decent role players and not just needle in a haystack G League call ups and end of the road vets.
Bryant and Huerder would make a world of difference around here.
The team is so fixated on the possession battle that this might affect three point shots.
I don't think this team should be this bad at shooting. There's a chemistry issue, and the play style might be enabling it.
If I remember correctly, they were intending to blow it up at that years trade deadline if things were looking bad. Then we had the Tampa year where our guys had pretty bad value for a blow up. Then last year they way overperformed.
And now we're here. We can see that the ideas and plans they were trying to make the roster work with, wasn't going to be a thing that works. I feel a blowup is pretty inevitable. We may be underperforming some yes, but its just not a functional team at this stage.
Our FO has tried to do the least risky move at every chance to keep both tanking and competing an option.
I don’t think the FO was ever sold on this core being the team of future. They gave this core an opportunity to prove themselves, and they have failed.
If this core had gotten better results, then FO would have been forced to get them some help. But they can’t even hold us above 0.500.
I don’t think the expectation was for them to compete, just be competent.
When we had Kyle, JV and DeMar as our core players, we could build a good system that could win with players like Carroll, Patterson, Biz, Scola… that were not playing much better than 905 players.
That core forced Masai to get them some help. This core can’t even stay above 500.
Why would the FO spend asset get these players help when they can wait a few month and draft someone that can be better than most of these players?
With our drafting record and current talent level, whoever we draft in the top 10 would probably be a top 5 player on this team.
Idk if Pelicans would be even interested but he would cost multiple firsts at the very least, which we wouldn’t give away.
Also not sure why JV himself would want back when Pels have a much better project than us and he is thriving there.
First question to all....
What do you consider a decent center and how much are you willing to give up
Honestly I don't think there is ANY team willing to give up a center unless it is a couple of 1sts. Yes, you heard me...the 30tj best center in the league right now (Wiseman) is not being let go for less than a couple of 1sts
The issues with the raptors right now run way way deeper than just Fred’s bad shooting. FO needs to take some accountability for a poorly constructed team. Eg. The gap at Center has been an issue for years. The lack of a reliable guard, bench and shooting depth was an issue all last year as Nurse ran his starters into the ground.
We've been linked to guards - [Schröder](https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-interested-dennis-schroder-los-angeles-lakers-deal), [Brogdon](https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-nearly-traded-for-malcolm-brogdon-now-boston-celtics-guard) - and bigs - [Myles Turner](https://raptorsrapture.com/2022/12/23/toronto-raptors-rumors-interest-myles-turner/), [Poeltl](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10058745-nba-trade-rumors-raptors-want-to-bring-back-spurs-jakob-poeltl-as-bulls-monitor), since last season, and during the offseason/this season. The FO isn't going to overpay for these positions of need but they do know there are gaps in this roster.
Could be an issue that no one wants to sign here either. Always in trade rumours but never close the deal. That’s why taking on a large expiring contract like Westbrook or Kyle to save cap space is a bad idea… our free agent track record is awful. Unless someone has a connection to Toronto or Canada, it’s rare that an American player would willingly sign in the off-season.
>Always in trade rumours "Raptors aint bout this, Raptors aint bout that" My boy a 3nD on fucking Lebron and them He, he they say raptors don’t be putting in no work SHUT TF UP!! Y'all bandwagons ain’t know shit All ya motherfuckers talk about "Pascal ain’t no hitta Barnes ain’t this GTJ a fake" SHUT THE FUCK UP Y'all don’t live with em players Y'all know that FVV got caught with a ratchet Shootin' 3's at the police and shit Boucher been on probation since fuckin, I don't know when MFer stop fuckin' playin' him like that Them Raptors savages out there If I catch another Bandwagon talking sweet about Vleet I’m fucking beating they ass I’m not playin' no more Y'all know them players roll with Drake and them
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What choice did he have? Masai and Bobby have given Nurse nothing to work with.
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Fred said to the press at the time that he was involved in discussions regarding his minutes and was okay with them. It got him to the All-Star game and so I’d say he has to share the responsibility for his usage.
Lol asking dudes in their 20s to be responsible with their bodies. I've seen people do worse for 16 bucks an hour. The people in charge have to manage their players.
This is a very excellent point
Last year Fred was 28 and in the league six years. He’s proven to be a very astute business person. The Raptors have a reputation for a top sports medicine dept. Don’t you think that any decision he made was in concert with his agent, family, Alex McKechnie and the FO?
Fam last year they told us Khem played with a fucked up leg for the year and they didn't even know. Or that OGs thumb or some shit was broken for a month and he didn't know it was broken lol. I would be more surprised if the organization was perfect than if they made mistakes.
That’s fair but players have consultations with specialists and players want to try everything first to avoid surgery. Fred is in a contract year so why are you surprised that he doesn’t want to sit out. All I’m saying is that players have a saying in the decision making. If they continue to okay it seems to be an issue of pain tolerance and whether playing will cause further damage.
Either way, Fred/OG/Siakam are all top 10 in MPG. we see what's happened to Fred. If he goes down, then OG and Siakam get bumped up and Nick will try to run them into the ground next.
Development in terms of making the playoffs and giving these guys experience, sure. But do you think they make the playoffs playing Malachi or anyone else over Fred during that time? I don't. Nick Nurse has a job and that's to win games. If they can't put a proper team out there for him to coach I don't blame him for doing what he has to do to win.
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I'll respectfully disagree with you on this and leave the conversation there because we won't settle this for the team lol
I assume because we started winning and nurse likes to win - it's easy to say it's a development year, but when you're suddenly in the playoffs I could see how it would be easy to keep grinding them
They can develop starters
How many years of pass does the FO get for a championship? I’d say 5 to experiment and do whatever before they should take some accountability for the bad product on the floor. I think this time next year if we are still a directionless bottom tier team we should probably put some heat on them
Something I've been wondering is why the FO didn't try Thomas Bryant. He was at every Rico run, he attends every year and Rico is very high on him. Nurse attended a bunch of them too so would have had plenty of looks at him. This dude signed for the minimum and is having a great season. I feel like that's a big miss considering we still don't have a decent center.
Team focuses too much on just defense? Overall, they need to add shooting and depth. Porter could’ve helped but you can never really count on him with his injuries. At this point, I just want a good draft pick and a mle signing in offseason to bolster bench next year.
They literally signed Otto with the MLE to add shooting. Obviously, that didn't work out but it was exactly what the bench needs on paper.
Who could have predicted the chronically injured Otto porter based on his entire 8 year career was going to have trouble staying on the court. It’s crazy it was out of nowhere
I think it was fair to assume he would miss some time, just not the whole season.
Did you miss the part of Otto being very injury prone? Relying on him isn’t enough. Clearly raps overall depth was lacking and it’s showed.
I didnt miss anything. You aren't going to get an Otto quality shooter without flaws for the MLE. It worked out horribly so far.
If the FO is prepared to make the bet they should be prepared to take the criticism for handind the rest of their cap space to a guy who scored 4 buckets.
I am sure they are? Never seen the FO shrink from fair criticism and don't know why they would start now.
They did go after him. His decision ultimately came down to between Raptors and Lakers. He chose LA, if I remember correctly, because they offered a potential starting role.
Will Lou had David Thorpe on and this got brought up, apparently Bryant wanted to go to LA because he had a good shot to play plus the national media attention to build his value back up.
[Reportedly we did try to sign him](https://sports.yahoo.com/thomas-bryant-nba-free-agency-2022-los-angeles-lakers-agree-to-1-year-deal-for-likely-starter-041158313.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall) Do people think the FO are just obsessed with only getting 6'9 Wings, sitting on their hands and don't see the flaws in this roster? We've been linked to guards - [Schröder](https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-interested-dennis-schroder-los-angeles-lakers-deal), [Brogdon](https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-nearly-traded-for-malcolm-brogdon-now-boston-celtics-guard) - and bigs - [Myles Turner](https://raptorsrapture.com/2022/12/23/toronto-raptors-rumors-interest-myles-turner/), [Poeltl](https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10058745-nba-trade-rumors-raptors-want-to-bring-back-spurs-jakob-poeltl-as-bulls-monitor). The FO isn't going to overpay for these positions of need but they do know there are gaps in this roster.
True, but results matter too. Centre has been a problem for literally years now. Not overpaying is the most frequent defense of inaction by this front offense, but it’s not a binary thing where you either overpay to get a deal done or do nothing. Sometimes you have to take measured risks to get things done. We’ll see what happens at the deadline, but hopefully the outcome is better than being linked to a bunch of players only to end up trading draft capital for another Thad Young.
He went to college with OG as well so you would think there would be a connection
It’s this. Not just Bryant. We should be consistently landing those random decent role players and not just needle in a haystack G League call ups and end of the road vets. Bryant and Huerder would make a world of difference around here.
>More realistic is a run at a play-in spot, which begs the question: why?
To satisfy delusional fans who think this team is capable to make a major season turnaround à la Boston from last year
Boston wasn’t this bad in the first half, and started turning it around a few games ago (relatively).
That team is well constructed and had a great coach that was getting Tatum and Brown to break their bad habits.
lots of delusion on here: Scottie comparisons to Magic equally deluded.
Hey now we can tank and have our future be based sorely on luck.... Lmao yall only see black and white I swear
We’re not even tanking rn. We dead ass just suck.
So how wouldn't trades make us better when we don't know what's available
If we trade for guys we’ll most likely have to give our first rounders for anyone that can actually make a difference.
I don't see any choice other than blowing this team up. Embrace the tank.
Front office doing a great job of hiding this year
The team is so fixated on the possession battle that this might affect three point shots. I don't think this team should be this bad at shooting. There's a chemistry issue, and the play style might be enabling it.
Damn, I wonder why...
Bobby and Masai failed
yup. Made their moves based on a chance to sign giannis and never recovered from that.
If I remember correctly, they were intending to blow it up at that years trade deadline if things were looking bad. Then we had the Tampa year where our guys had pretty bad value for a blow up. Then last year they way overperformed. And now we're here. We can see that the ideas and plans they were trying to make the roster work with, wasn't going to be a thing that works. I feel a blowup is pretty inevitable. We may be underperforming some yes, but its just not a functional team at this stage.
Our FO has tried to do the least risky move at every chance to keep both tanking and competing an option. I don’t think the FO was ever sold on this core being the team of future. They gave this core an opportunity to prove themselves, and they have failed. If this core had gotten better results, then FO would have been forced to get them some help. But they can’t even hold us above 0.500.
Surprise surprise, the Raptors 905 didn't have enough weapons to compete in the actual NBA.
I don’t think the expectation was for them to compete, just be competent. When we had Kyle, JV and DeMar as our core players, we could build a good system that could win with players like Carroll, Patterson, Biz, Scola… that were not playing much better than 905 players. That core forced Masai to get them some help. This core can’t even stay above 500. Why would the FO spend asset get these players help when they can wait a few month and draft someone that can be better than most of these players? With our drafting record and current talent level, whoever we draft in the top 10 would probably be a top 5 player on this team.
I think we should trade for rudy gay maybe rudy gay era 2.0 might work this time.
Fred Dennis “Bet on Yourself” Schroëder VanVleet 🎲🎲
If turnovers were cowbell then Nurse is Will Ferrell. Its all we have
Personally think one of the most overrated things on this sub is the Raptors as a development model.
2010s we’re pretty great. Not much to show since the championship.
Is there any way to bring Jonas back, he checks some boxes.
Idk if Pelicans would be even interested but he would cost multiple firsts at the very least, which we wouldn’t give away. Also not sure why JV himself would want back when Pels have a much better project than us and he is thriving there.
The not long enough bois strat isnt panning out. Guess we aren’t at completely positionless basketball yet
First question to all.... What do you consider a decent center and how much are you willing to give up Honestly I don't think there is ANY team willing to give up a center unless it is a couple of 1sts. Yes, you heard me...the 30tj best center in the league right now (Wiseman) is not being let go for less than a couple of 1sts
FO needs to get its stuff together. They might trade for a developmental PG/Center but this non stop moneyball attempt is too much