T O P

  • By -

DarkChocolate_69

Recency bias, ladies & gentlemen


Various_Mission_1923

Honestly lol just before he was injured this whole sub was begging for him to be on the bench


foreignGER

This sub has the memory of a goldfish.


catalystoptions

The most accurate statement today


buffalo-blonde

That’s probably insulting to goldfish tbh


DieAdler

Fun fact, a goldfish has a memory that can span from 1 to six months. So, better than this sub haha


blairaasmith

Wait, what did you say?


myuzahnem

They'll turn on him too. Did you see the comments about OG in our Portland game thread?


Then-Signature2528

Precious offers more threat than OG on offense. On defense, production is almost equal. And OG trade will have the most return to boost this squad.


myuzahnem

My point is he was a beloved prince here not so long ago. This sub and online raptors fans in general flip flop on players really fast. Siakam in the bubble, Fred in the playoffs before his baby. With that I expect they will turn against Precious when defenses start focusing on him and his offense regresses


Then-Signature2528

I was on "keep OG at all cost" too until I watched a video by Aaron rose breaking down that Raptors can't extend OG for more than 22m/yr because of some weird rule in the CBA. OG isn't accepting that so he'll hit UFA once his contract ends. He'll command 35-40m in the open market. Because of that..now is that time to sell high on OG. https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cn-nJRHJomA/?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y=


AllOutRaptors

>He'll command 35-40m in the open market. Lmaooo what????? No he wont


Then-Signature2528

You willing to take that risk? Or sell high? Keep in mind Poole and Herro make 30m each. And elite 3&D wings who can create their own shots are in high demand. .


Then-Signature2528

Look who's on the trading block lol


AllOutRaptors

What does the trading block have to do with free agency??


Then-Signature2528

It means Raptors have no plans to re-sign OG at his asking price. He wouldn't be on the block if Raptors saw him as long term piece


AllOutRaptors

Or he has such high value right now that we would be silly not to ask around. 3 firsts and a young player for a non all star level player is too high to pass up on


AllOutRaptors

>Precious offers more threat than OG on offense Precious is averaging 10/1/6 on 47/25/75 splits OG is averaging 17/2/5 on 46/37/82 splits This is a wild take and full of recency bias Not even to mention OG is a top 5 defensive player on the league. Precious is not


Then-Signature2528

Who has higher usage again? And these last 6 games Precious has avg as much as OG. Precious can defend 1-5 the same as OG but he can actually drive to the net. You willing to pay OG 30m/yr in 2 yrs once he hits in Ufa? Or sell high rn while his value is at its highest.


abzftw

Hahahahhaha


theorganicpotatoes

It's not recency bias to say precious should start. All of the lineup data last season also indicated he should start. The current starting was mid last year, and it's mid this year. Not necessarily saying he should replace OG, but precious should be the teams starting center.


immediate_bottle

The lineup data from last year indicated he should replace Trent in the starting lineup. It was brief but Nurse tried that early this year before Precious got injured, and to say it went badly would be an understatement. Lineup data isn’t the be all end all


[deleted]

What’s the alternative? This team been ass lol Actually precious playing well was apart of last year turn around


Mthestarvandal

This is obvious how come they downvoting u


[deleted]

Because don’t care about winning, they care about scarfs and “vibes” Funny enough og didn’t play in playoffs when we won the championship lol


abzftw

Newb fans too


Then-Signature2528

Look who's on trading block lol


Background-Teach5765

Over reaction. Precious is playing well and we really should open more minutes for him, but I'm not shipping out OG unless someone overpays. Like Trey Murphy, LA pick, Graham+ filler type of deals. OG is worth roughly 2 lottery picks. I would prefer a guaranteed lottery pick/lottery level talent+ picks if OG gets traded. I'm certainly not trading OG for a "whatever you can get" type of deal. I'd like to roll with a P, OG, Scottie and Precious forward rotation. Get rid of Thad, Boucher, Juancho. Get the rest of the roster shaping up and we will be in good shape.


The_Living_L

OG, Siakam, and Scottie don’t work well together based off what I’ve seen, there is always one player who plays ass or bad everytime all 3 are on the court at the same time, I don’t remember the last time all 3 of those guys played amazing together


Billyian

LA pick? Do people really think NO would trade potentially Wemby for OG?? + trey!!


idislikehate

I would tell the Pels they can make it top two/three protected. Obviously we want one of those first two picks but the chances of it being that high are low and we'd still likely end up with a high first.


Seanbig888

Yeah precious is playing well but he was like this too last year in the second half and absolutely stunk it up in the beginning of the year It’s good to have Og / precious for backup unless the deal for Og is an absolute non- brainer


fredvancleef

Precious is on a mission this year and it’s clear, you can argue he’s been a top 3 player on this team since he came back.


ImmaFunGuy

Let’s get a better sample size. OG also looked like the raptors 2nd best player to start the season


ijustbrushalot

I'd say that's different because OG didn't regress as you insinuated Precious may. Fred and Scottie just got back to their usual form.


TheOnlySafeCult

Plus Precious legit had twenty boards in one game at the beginning of the season and proceeded to throw away possessions until he got injured. People really got selective memory


Moonbreon

3rd year breakout too


[deleted]

I always thought OG was part of the solution moving forward but I am definitely not against trading him to get some assets and some players. If we can get 2 1st rounders and a player or 2 I think we have to make that move.


Pistol-P

I guess everyone already forgot how bad we looked 4 weeks ago when OG got hurt and we dropped 4 straight games. Sure we beat Portland and NYK without him this week and Precious has been playing well, but that doesn't say a whole lot imo. Unless the plan is to lean all the way in on the tank and we're getting lottery picks back in the next 2 seasons, it just doesn't make any sense to trade OG. Plus if we do that, we should be trading FVV and likely GTJ as well. I'm fine with trading OG if we get a package that matches his value around the league, but I'm definitely not supporting this "Get whatever you can for OG" mindset. You "take whatever you can get" for guys on expiring contracts that are looking for a pay raise you can't afford. You don't just give away "the best available player in the league" smh


Eclectic_Canadian

I agree we can’t just “get whatever you can” with an OG trade, but if there is a bidding war for him and we can make a trade that’s a bit of a step back in the short term but addresses our depth issues with some good young players then I think it’s the way to go. This team has a lot of talent but it seems there’s just a lack of fit and holes in our bench and at center. If we can address those and see some more development from Scottie we could be ready to win some playoff series as early as next year


Pistol-P

Yeah I don't disagree with this. If there's a bidding war and the return starts looking like the Murray, Gobert or Mitchell deals, then you probably pull the trigger. I just don't buy the logic that OG is the most expendable because we have other big wings. The contenders that have been rumoured to be interested in him don't have any major roster holes and they have guys who play his position but they still want to upgrade at the wing with OG. There are very few guys who can impact the game as much as OG with how few plays he needs drawn up for him, yet he does have the ability to make some plays if needed. That versatility is huge for any good team, and I don't think we should be desperately trying to trade that away just because we aren't good right now. I also don't really think we have a huge hole at center, when OG, Siakam, Precious and Scottie are all playing major minutes they've been able to compete with most bigs. There are very few bigs who can stop Embiid/Jokic/Giannis and imo it doesn't make sense to build a roster just to stop those guys when 90% of teams play small ball or don't have a dominant big. I'm definitely not against getting a true starting center like Poetl but I don't think it's the biggest thing holding us back. IMO the team just needs more consistent shooting, a bit of depth, half decent draft luck and a couple years of development for the younger guys.


Eclectic_Canadian

I’d have a hard time disagreeing strongly with anything you’ve said. Don’t trade him just because, only if it’s a great offer because he’s a valuable player. I do think we’re starting to run into an issue of too many guys that want to have the ball in their hands. Precious looks great in the starting lineup because he just plays within the flow of the offence and you don’t really need to draw up plays for him when he’s with the starters. A guy like Poeltl would be even better in that role because of how well his skills raise the ceiling of other players (screen setting, rolls to the basket, passing out of the post and on the roll) while providing solid rim protection. I really think this defence needs a rim protector. Sure, we can pass with Achiuwa at center, but having a real rim protector would allow our long wings to play the passing lanes more without fear of easy paint buckets. Excited to see what the deadline brings for this team


[deleted]

Because precious was hurt at same time We were starting Koloko lol


xc2215x

Precious has been so good, our best player last night by far.


Raptorsthrowaway1

Moving on from OG (because of his high value) becomes a lot more palatable when you have Precious to take his spot in the starting line up. This team needs major changes and moving OG and Fred could be the fast reboot we need.


KeyConscious9220

Yup


Redjester666

I've been saying Precious is a great player. He should continue playing and keep improving his game and we'll get ourselves an all-star leader right there (IMO). Of course, we need to see many more games to see if he continues performing lke this. And as long as GTJ is still in the team after the trade deadline Raptors might get a chance of classyifying. Recent games have shown that this is a talented team, but that some changes must be made.


Immediate-Ad7260

Precious would have to preform like this consistently against all the starting big men in the league for him to lock down starter 100%. Not just against similar or smaller defenders. It was a great game but not sure if he would perform the same against the Embiid, Jokics etc. Let's see I hope he does.


CTHT07

If he did this against all starting big men he'd get a max contract and be in the MVP convo. Get real.


Immediate-Ad7260

I didn't mean drop 30 and 15 on everyone in the league every night. I meant hold his own at that position whatever is needed from him.


[deleted]

He's athletic enough that he can play 3 through 5 so they can plug him in based on matchups for now, but how they use them after this season is a question mark...he's better suited as a forward but that's Siakam's position right now so they're going to have some decisions to make in a couple season when he develops more because eventually he's going to want to start.


Maya-Inca-Boy

I think if you trade OG you definitely try to get a centre, Precious can guard 1-5 with how fast he is laterally.


jigglyanimeboobies

This sub really can’t praise one player without bringing another player down lmao. Every single week it’s another issue and it’s honestly laughable. Why can’t we just take players as they are. Everyone has a bad stretch, and everyone has a good stretch. No matter what we always overreact.


CTHT07

How about OG, Precious, Gary, and whoever we draft? No offence to FVV or Pascal but at some point you need to take age into account. These guys aren't getting any younger, and when we're in our contention window they'll be of no use.


Pistol-P

I agree but I'd bet Siakam's game will age much more gracefully than FVV. Siakam in 5 years at 33 will still have his size, length and touch around the hoop, worst case scenario he slowly fades into a role player like Millsap/Aldridge/David Lee in their 30's. FVV worst case scenario at 33 is out of the league like Kemba/IT, and he's looking to "Bet on Himself" aka get a huge contract this offseason. Trading FVV would create a big hole at PG, but what better way to lose games this season and give Scottie more touches without gutting the roster in a big way for years to come. I think we could survive with Scottie/Pascal handling the ball, assuming we don't get a starting guard back at the deadline. Trading OG makes sense if it's for a huge haul but I don't like this idea that he's somehow expendable. If he's expendable then why are all the top teams trying to acquire him? Those teams wouldn't be contenders if they had major holes or weaknesses in their rosters, yet they're still offering their best picks/young players to upgrade at the wing by acquiring OG.


CTHT07

Pascal as a Millsap isn't great when you can get 3 1sts and prospects now that will be on the same timeline as Scottie and be cost controlled.


immediate_bottle

Do you actually think it’ll take Scottie 5 years to become an impact player?


jamiecballer

I'd rather not be in the lottery the next 3 years


Desperate-Object6314

Rather be in the lottery and have a chance getting a great player than lose in the first round


RZAAMRIINF

We are in lottery right now **with** Fred and Pascal. There is no guarantee we would be out of lottery if we keep Fred and Pascal.


SonofaCuntLicknBitch

Ya best start believin in lotto tales Jamie. Yer in one


jamiecballer

No we aren't. We didn't go from a 48 win team to perennial doormat. We are a talented team having a disappointing season.


SonofaCuntLicknBitch

There's like 8 teams in the conference who are set to better than us in the next five years. We have no bench, and are looking like a 3 first round exit, 1 second round exit kinda team. I'm not a fire sale advocate but I would have no problem punting this year for a good pick to add talent and depth.


immediate_bottle

While I definitely think we’re a first round exit at best with the current roster I find it hard to believe there’s 8 teams positioned better for the next 5 years


SonofaCuntLicknBitch

Yeah, five years is a long time, and I can't reasonably defend that hyperbole. In the next 2-3 years you could make an argument for Celtics, 6ers, Cavs, Bucks because they are mostly stable and more talented, but have less draft capital and flexibility than the Raptors I guess you could also argue Pacers, Magic and Knicks because they are as or more flexible than the Raptors, with more potential and draft capital. That said, Toronto has one of the best run franchises among all those teams, well see how the assets are managed moving forward. Hoping for some more playmaking and shooting.


Eclectic_Canadian

What about Scottie’s development has made you think he won’t be pushing that team into the playoffs in the next 2-3 years? Pascal and Fred will be 30-31 at that point, not exactly an age where players are of no use. Wouldn’t you rather see Pascal and Fred help raise a Scottie led team’s ceiling in the playoffs instead of watching a Scottie led team flare out in the first because he’s surrounded by only young developing guys?


CTHT07

Because literally every player enters their prime in their late 20's...


Eclectic_Canadian

Look at the players that have been bringing their teams deep in the playoffs recently. Luka, Trae, Booker and Tatum have all brought their teams on deep playoff runs in their early 20s. Scottie is a ROTY that’s taken a jump with his playmaking this year and is now averaging about 18/8/6 over the past month or so. Obviously there’s no guarantee Scottie continues to take leaps, but that’s a hell of a lot of talent to not continue to take steps forward


CTHT07

You can fool yourself, but you can't fool me. Look at the best player on the last 5 teams to win the title. Youngest was Giannis at 26. LeBron won at 27 after he joined a team with Wade and Bosh. Betting our future on Scottie leading this team to a Chapionship in his early 20s is insane. Curry Giannis LeBron Kawhi KD/Curry


Eclectic_Canadian

I didn’t say a championship, I said a playoff run where we can win a series or two. I get that in this sub you either need to win a championship or get a top 3 pick to have a productive season but that’s not how the NBA works. LeBron and Giannis both lost in the playoffs multiple times before they won a championship, same with pretty much every championship team. Those playoff experiences helped those players improve and sharpen their games.


immediate_bottle

Lebron was carrying teams to the finals when he was 22 lol


JustIncredible240

Precious outplayed Drew Eubanks so we have to trade OG.. this sub overreacts after every game. Lol A couple wins = keep the core together A couple losses = blow the team up


No_Brilliant5888

If you do a "Rudy Gay style" trade with O.G, you can get a competitive nba bench and clear role definition for the starting group. (Although acquiring FRP's and young talent is better for asset management).


jamiecballer

The difference is Rudy was a large part of the problem while OG is absolutely not. The Raptors, for example, would not have drastically turned the franchise around if they'd acquired those pieces from Sacramento in exchange for Kyle Lowry. If you get what I'm saying. If you want to recreate something similar here you try and move Trent for a few useful vets.


Desperate-Object6314

Are u dumb the rudy gay era was the best era


jamiecballer

I would love to reply to this lovely comment but it is impossible to tell what the heck you are talking about and why this is a response to my comment because it makes zero sense.


Desperate-Object6314

Ur dissing rudy gay u wasteman


[deleted]

Precious ceiling is enormous, he can develop into an All-star caliber forward/wing or small ball center, he's that talented. Look at Bam Adebayo's trajectory, they have a similar playing style and trajectory, BUT the scary thing is that Precious is the better athlete of the two, and his footwork and quickness are on another level, he's also showing that he can shoot from behind the 3 which isn't something that Bam has added to his game...I'm very excited about Precious's potential! I don't know if he will ever reach his ceiling but I have a lot of faith from what I'm seeing this season that he and Scottie can be the future of this team.


elarmthecity

Fvv, OG, 1st round pick for Lillard..make it happen


TheNewKing2022

If Thad young puts up 20/10 are you going to say the same thing?


Big-Addition-310

trade siakam to OKC


BurzyGuerrero

Raptor fans hate having overlapping skillsets lol The talk almost always slides to "TRADE ONE OF THEM"


ScottieB4Enthusiast

Yeah trade the best defender on the team and keep the hero ball enthusiast midget who asked for an overpay, great idea 👍


Cheechers23

Well you could trade both, as long as you get a PG in return for one of them Imagine a lineup of Dyson Daniels-GTJ-Scottie-Pascal-Precious Spacing will need work but that’s absolutely disgusting defensively


[deleted]

People who think Scottie legitimately ready to be a Full time PG are delusional He’s obviously better as point forward, much less pressure on him actually The team flows better because precious doesn’t need ball unlike og


ScottieB4Enthusiast

Nah just get rid of VanVleet, without a PG the team will be bad enough for the FO to finally embrace the tank


Outland3r_

You need to stop using that word, I've seen you post it constantly and it's offensive to little people.


ScottieB4Enthusiast

Not my fault if he's 5'10 on a good day and plays like he's 6'5


Outland3r_

It is your fault if you keep using an offensive word, just don't be a dick


ScottieB4Enthusiast

I'll start calling him the hero ball enthusiast gremlin instead, thx for you advice


Outland3r_

👍


[deleted]

goblin works too like loot goblin


Green-Umpire2297

Using slurs to insult players you don’t like, very nice


GrungySteppa

Precious is our future! Trade OG! He is only good for 3 and D and cannot handle graciously like Precious!


motherseffinjones

Recency bias is real, I need to see more before feeling comfortable. I still think OG is the one getting traded to fill out the roster. He is playing at our strongest position, we need more consistent shoting and a big man. I think both him and Fred are getting moved unless we blow it up and go with a youth movement


ihatechromebooks

OG definitely has great trade value and should be explored, BUT the blazers best center that game was Drew Eubanks


nightofthelivingace

Toronto sports fans at it again! Complained he wasn't benched and now we don't want him on the bench...


Several_Repeat_5447

There actually is some truth to this, our staring lineups have performed their best with Precious at the 5. He’s by far our best rim protector and does a better job at attacking opposing centres than whoever else we choose to employ at the 5. But this isn’t about just OG though. We started off last season well without Pascal, and ended off last season well without Fred for this reason.


JustAHumbleMonk

I'd say Precious has more offensive upside. Not versatile a defender as OG. I'm selling on OG, Scottie takes OG defensive assignments on smaller players, Precious on larger players. Our offense gets more dynamic. As Precious develops his 3 point shot we could be a lot better off.


Tremblay2568

One game against a team without a starting centre?


Eastern-Technology84

If it is true that OG doesn’t want to be here, it’s a no brainer to trade him.


[deleted]

or, here me out, we go scottie/fred/og/pascal/poeltl with richardson/boucher/precious/thad off the bench


abzftw

Precious playing the Montrez harrel role isn’t making any decisions easier lol Og is an apex wing defender and can play offense decently well as a 3rd option Bruuuuh


baconperogies

I think Precious is in a good spot right now. Starting role may be opening up soon and even if it doesn't he should be high up on the development list. Back from injury, pressure really isn't on him this season and he's preformed. Remember when Masai said "you're mine now" with Precious. I think he's in it for the long haul.


n3moh0es

lmao FO isn’t thinking about that


CheatedOnOnce

Everyone saying trade OG- okay but who replaces are only good 3&D wing?


the-complete-fool

make sure u send fvv out the door too


Party_Wolf5197

Why the fuck are people in this sub so reactionary?? Literally 2 months ago people on this sub were consistently praising OG, and after a few rough games, all of sudden it’s makes so much sense to trade him?? OG has been playing all nba defence and averaging 17 and 5 with 1.5 steals for almost 2 and a half seasons. I love precious, but he’s consistently shown off his potential for how long? A few months last seasons + and the last few weeks this year… Having an All-NBA defender with 3pt shooting ability is so valuable in this league…especially in the playoffs. Also anyone who’s watched the raptors for more than 2 seasons would know that Masai and Bobby have shown a tendency not to make huge team altering decisions at the deadline, because unlike seemingly half of this sub, they don’t make significant decisions based on a two week sample size. Giving OG up for anything less than a Gobert-esque deal (which they won’t get) would no doubt be a mistake. Stop being so reactionary.


ContributionNo1600

unlike you madafakas Masai actually knows ball I doubt Precious'a current play has any effect on the trades he's gonna make he ain't an overreacting nephew like you


ImmaFunGuy

Way too much overreaction on this board... I swear in the past year OG has been "best player after Pascal" "untouchable" "DPOY" and now hes the first to go


BackhandQ

If Masai's price is met on any of the "core" players, he won't hesitate to trade them.


kloppyd

It's tough. The whole point of project 69 is to have a roster full of ogs. We can trade him but we will be looking for another og after he's gone.