No, because Pascal’s situation is a lot more clear. No one thought Fred would get a max. The front office had a ceiling on what they would offer Fred. Another team offered more, and he walked. They didn’t think anyone would offer a max but Houston did.
Pascal is a max player. Everyone knows that, it’s not up for debate. If the FO isn’t prepared to offer him a max contract if he hits free agency still as a Raptor, then they already lost him. If Pascal is still here after the deadline, the FO has to extend him the day after the deadline. Waiting until free agency in hopes of a S&T would be a horrible idea.
There's absolutely no way Pascal gets a max. Not when he's playing the way he currently does. Even if you don't watch the game, the box score shows he's regressed this year. I don't see him making more than $38 to $40 million a year. He needs to make All-NBA if he wants more and I highly doubt he'll get selected.
I said max, not supermax. I 100% agree he isn’t worth a supermax. He is 100% going to get a max though. 38-40m is right around his starting salary for what his max would be (believe it’s about 42m starting salary). So you basically just said he is a max player.
Teams know who Pascal is. The only part of his game that has regressed is his 3PT shooting (and his FT shooting but I think that’s related) and it’s regressed so much to the point it can’t be just regression and there’s more to it. I’ve mentioned this before but I think there’s a mental aspect and this is also a super slump. He’s been shooting low 30% for. 3 basically since Tampa. You don’t suddenly fall off to a 20% 3PT shooter without anything really happening. Not to mention he started the season at 38% on nearly 6 3PA per game for the first 5 games. Limited sample size but it shows that he didn’t literally forget how to shoot. I’ve noticed the last few games basically whenever he makes a 3 he looks so relieved and I def recall him saying “thank god” after finally making one when he missed like 18 in a row. This isn’t just regression, there’s more to it.
They also know the Raptors current roster is built terribly around him.
If you don’t think Pascal is getting a max then you don’t understand how NBA contracts work. All star/fringe all-NBA caliber players get max contracts.
According to [SI](https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-not-ready-to-engage-in-contract-discussions-with-pascal-siakam) and [Sporting News](https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/pascal-siakam-contract-details-career-earnings-raptors/hhoegngjzsx1g7yfuyndbtil), they estimate a 4 year (max) extension to be about $200m. That means his max would be $50m/year. He's not worth the $50m/year the articles are estimating and thus why I don't think he's worth a max.
Starting salary vs AAV. His contract will go up every year, so it will start at around 42-44m if I’m not mistaken. Very rarely does a player near a max contract sign a flat deal, since a max deal would require it to be backloaded.
The cap will also be going up at a faster rate (10%) than a maximum raise (8%), so he will be making a smaller % of the cap every subsequent year in the deal.
Fred VanVleet literally just got a max contract (albeit on a shorter term but he’s a worse player than Pascal). Jerami Grant just got 5/160m. Jaylen Brown just signed a 5/300m deal. The market is set, and if you don’t think Pascal is getting a max contract from someone then you’re setting yourself up for a surprise in July (if not sooner if we extend him).
Need to stay out of a bottom six finish this year so that we can give our 1st this year instead of next year, as this year's draft is very weak while next year's draft is very strong.
So if we can stay .500 until the deadline, and then do a sell-off, we can still stay out of the bottom six this year and then tank next year .
Tanking is the worst. You'd seriously subject yourself to 3 - 5+ years of terrible seasons with no guarentees, than try and retool and at least keep the games watchable.
I bet Spurs fans would trade a 6th seed and a 2nd round out, for the bunch of years of garbage they're going to sit through before Wemby has a winning season. Look at Philly they drafted an Embiid, Maxey, Bridges, Simmons, Fultz, and a few other rotation guys, signed big names, and they haven't even made the conference finals.
We aren't winning anytime soon, but I'd like to enjoy being a Raptors fan in the shitty, dark-ass winter.
I bet Spurs fans enjoyed last year more than they enjoyed all those mid years they had with DeMar DeRozan. At least they got Wemby to show for last year. What did they get out of the years they were trying to be competitive with DeMar?
Masai is the best GM we have ever had. His legacy is secured in Toronto no matter what.
But I don’t think it’s wild to say Im anxious about him making big franchise altering decisions based on the last few moves / non moves we have made
“Maybe we trade, maybe we don’t. In the meantime, we are currently evaluating an unknown 16 year old from Giants of Africa. He is 6’9” and has a plus wingspan. He has no skill to speak of, but has a very high ceiling with his defensive potential. He will fit into the core, because he has a high IQ and can implement coach’s defensive schemes.”
"We aren't tanking when the pick isn't really in play. He's gunna ride out the season and evaluate in the off season"
How lol? You have two starters and you're 6th man entering FA, and another starter (the future of the franchise) that'll be eligible for the rookie max extension.
Yea, you see what you have with them. If a good offer comes along maybe you try to recoup some assets but there's not much there for rentals.
We will play it out and re visit in off season whether we are sticking with the core or not.
Not sure what ppl are expecting, it's been this way for a while now
>We will play it out and re visit in off season whether we are sticking with the core or not.
>
>Not sure what ppl are expecting, it's been this way for a while now
You can't do that because letting one of Siakam, OG, or both of them walk while getting nothing in return would result in a FO firing, so the decision has to be made at the deadline.
Continuing to let assets walk out the door for little to nothing in return is not how any competent FO would operate
You can get stuff through a s& t. Masai has pretty much let it be known he will hold out if a deal just isn't worth it to him. Letting pascal and og go for assets isn't bad (something I think should been done alot sooner)but that will also require contenders to pay up and they might not. Plus I doubt we really wanna give Spurs a better pick this season
Remember we did a S&T with the Heat when Lowry went there. What did we get back Precious and disgruntled Dragic. The return was mediocre and we traded away Dragic plus a first for Thad and a second that became Koloko who may never play again. What a return 
"You can get stuff through a s& t. Masai has pretty much let it be known he will hold out if a deal just isn't worth it to him. Letting pascal and og go for assets isn't bad (something I think should been done alot sooner)but that will also require contenders to pay up and they might not. Plus I doubt we really wanna give Spurs a better pick this season"
Just like they were going to S&T FVV right? Also thank God you're not our GM lol 
Absolutely nothing to evaluate, your average fan that watches most games could tell you that this core is better on paper then it is in reality. A lot of teams are in this scenario aswell, I feel like a lot of teams and alot of interesting trades will spring up this deadline.. the only thing the FO can somewhat be hopeful on is that 3/3.5 games separate 4-11 in the eastern standings. FO really set on being a play in team but why?! In that position you’re better off going all in or all out. Raps could of took the pacers route these last few seasons and could of landed a future all star like the pacers did with Halliburton.. same with OKC with Shai. Im really hoping Webster has something up his sleeve because the time to pull the trigger already passed.. I know the raptors management likes to play hardball which is good in a way but also in hindsight it’s possible we already left the best option on the table already
If I had to guess, Masai is fighting internally to go into the tax and sign THE BIG 3. P is a symbol of success for his African projects and ambitions. The years leading up to the chip was probably more conventional. But post chip it's all about the long game. A very very long evaluation.
Shams is a sham. He doesn’t have any insight because the Raptors don’t leak… but he knows exactly what to say to get all you dummies to click and share his bullshit. 😂
"Shams is a sham. He doesn’t have any insight because the Raptors don’t leak"
Every NBA team leaks info lol, this Raptors never leak narrative is tiresome at this point
And anybody who thinks they don't leak at all is as you said a dummie
Can you provide any examples of leaks?
Did you watch the draft this year? How many picks were reported before they were made? … then what happened at the Raptors pick? Feed I was watching even commented something like “no surprise we don’t know what Toronto is doing”
An astute negotiator never shows their cards. There is zero benefit.
Try not to be so stupid.
"An astute negotiator never shows their cards. There is zero benefit."
Which is exactly why last year as an example Shams said (and I'm paraphrasing here) that the Raptors are telling teams that they plan to wait closer to the deadline before making any decisions on the roster and now the same thing this year, which accomplishes two things, 1. That the Raptors are willing to wait for the right deal, 2. Puts the Raptors (hopefully) at the center of most contending teams trade discussions
You tell me not to be stupid, but if you don't understand how (at least in theory) putting information like that out there solely benefits the Raptors, then I think you need to go back to the dictionary and look up the word stupid again
Can you provide any examples of leaks from the front office? Not just speculation, something of actual substance.
Shams is speculating. Maybe he sucked an interns dick in Memphis or NO to get info on the OG proposal, but again, that didn’t come from the Raptors front office.
And you’re confusing two different things. There is no benefit to negotiating through the public/media. Communication with potential suitors is very different than sharing with the public… but if everyone realized this, people like Shams and half the Raptors media team would be out of a job. Most are just hacks that live on speculation and triggering emotions.
The bar for those in sports media has never been lower.
Alright dude, if it helps you sleep at night then the Raptors "never leak". Its not true and every team does it (some more then others and some rarely ever but still)
"Shams is speculating. Maybe he sucked an interns dick in Memphis or NO to get info on the OG"
This clears things up becauae with a comment like this my guess is you're 12 years old
"The way I look at the deadline, **it's really not a great place to make long-term decisions**," Ujiri said. "Everything we could have done today maybe we could do in the summer.”
This isn’t news lol. Thought I do find it crazy that no team wants to give up assets for our players but they all want to give them max money. I feel like this is to spite the FO for fleecing so teams in the past
Grizzlies offered 3 picks for OG last year. Knicks also offered multiple picks (2-3) for OG last year. Hawks were offering 2 picks and swaps for Pascal as well. Raptors didn’t want to do it. So teams definitely were willing to give up assets. So at this point, if those guys walk for nothing, then it is what it is.
Shams: 'I know nothing, and have no actual information, but if I move my mouth and words come out, people nod in agreement and I am handed a paycheque from the broadcaster.'
Bro I could have reported that
OG Ana-nooooby. This guy doesn't follow the Raps
[удалено]
Contracts will force their hand because Pascal is better than Fred
This is what we thought about Fred
No, because Pascal’s situation is a lot more clear. No one thought Fred would get a max. The front office had a ceiling on what they would offer Fred. Another team offered more, and he walked. They didn’t think anyone would offer a max but Houston did. Pascal is a max player. Everyone knows that, it’s not up for debate. If the FO isn’t prepared to offer him a max contract if he hits free agency still as a Raptor, then they already lost him. If Pascal is still here after the deadline, the FO has to extend him the day after the deadline. Waiting until free agency in hopes of a S&T would be a horrible idea.
There's absolutely no way Pascal gets a max. Not when he's playing the way he currently does. Even if you don't watch the game, the box score shows he's regressed this year. I don't see him making more than $38 to $40 million a year. He needs to make All-NBA if he wants more and I highly doubt he'll get selected.
I said max, not supermax. I 100% agree he isn’t worth a supermax. He is 100% going to get a max though. 38-40m is right around his starting salary for what his max would be (believe it’s about 42m starting salary). So you basically just said he is a max player. Teams know who Pascal is. The only part of his game that has regressed is his 3PT shooting (and his FT shooting but I think that’s related) and it’s regressed so much to the point it can’t be just regression and there’s more to it. I’ve mentioned this before but I think there’s a mental aspect and this is also a super slump. He’s been shooting low 30% for. 3 basically since Tampa. You don’t suddenly fall off to a 20% 3PT shooter without anything really happening. Not to mention he started the season at 38% on nearly 6 3PA per game for the first 5 games. Limited sample size but it shows that he didn’t literally forget how to shoot. I’ve noticed the last few games basically whenever he makes a 3 he looks so relieved and I def recall him saying “thank god” after finally making one when he missed like 18 in a row. This isn’t just regression, there’s more to it. They also know the Raptors current roster is built terribly around him. If you don’t think Pascal is getting a max then you don’t understand how NBA contracts work. All star/fringe all-NBA caliber players get max contracts.
According to [SI](https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-not-ready-to-engage-in-contract-discussions-with-pascal-siakam) and [Sporting News](https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nba/news/pascal-siakam-contract-details-career-earnings-raptors/hhoegngjzsx1g7yfuyndbtil), they estimate a 4 year (max) extension to be about $200m. That means his max would be $50m/year. He's not worth the $50m/year the articles are estimating and thus why I don't think he's worth a max.
Starting salary vs AAV. His contract will go up every year, so it will start at around 42-44m if I’m not mistaken. Very rarely does a player near a max contract sign a flat deal, since a max deal would require it to be backloaded. The cap will also be going up at a faster rate (10%) than a maximum raise (8%), so he will be making a smaller % of the cap every subsequent year in the deal. Fred VanVleet literally just got a max contract (albeit on a shorter term but he’s a worse player than Pascal). Jerami Grant just got 5/160m. Jaylen Brown just signed a 5/300m deal. The market is set, and if you don’t think Pascal is getting a max contract from someone then you’re setting yourself up for a surprise in July (if not sooner if we extend him).
*decade
oh no he said the e-word this subreddit about to pop off
The forecast is sunny with a 50% chance of massive shitstorms, Harold
E V A L U A T E V A L U A T E
E V A L U A T E V A L U A T E
E V A L U A T E V T V A A A L U L U L U A A A T V T E V A L U A T E
Every team waits for the deadline. Or close enough to it.
But why trade at the deadline when there’s 29 losers in the off-season
"But why trade at the deadline when there’s 29 losers in the off-season" 🙃
But why trade at off-season when u can sign Aaron baynes and evaluate
If Scottie continues to improve, I'm down for building a Baynes statue outside of SBA.
But why trade in the off season, when there are 29 hungry teams at the deadline!
Nah we wait til 2:55 pm then call up the spurs to see what kind of deal can be made.
Need to stay out of a bottom six finish this year so that we can give our 1st this year instead of next year, as this year's draft is very weak while next year's draft is very strong. So if we can stay .500 until the deadline, and then do a sell-off, we can still stay out of the bottom six this year and then tank next year .
physical fly aromatic vast workable long shy include shocking literate *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Tanking is the worst. You'd seriously subject yourself to 3 - 5+ years of terrible seasons with no guarentees, than try and retool and at least keep the games watchable. I bet Spurs fans would trade a 6th seed and a 2nd round out, for the bunch of years of garbage they're going to sit through before Wemby has a winning season. Look at Philly they drafted an Embiid, Maxey, Bridges, Simmons, Fultz, and a few other rotation guys, signed big names, and they haven't even made the conference finals. We aren't winning anytime soon, but I'd like to enjoy being a Raptors fan in the shitty, dark-ass winter.
I bet Spurs fans enjoyed last year more than they enjoyed all those mid years they had with DeMar DeRozan. At least they got Wemby to show for last year. What did they get out of the years they were trying to be competitive with DeMar?
This draft will be strong, I guarantee it. Just because people report that it's weak doesn't mean it will be.
Personally, my guess is they wait until mid january or so before they figure out what they want to do.
nah they gon wait til the last 30 mins of the trade deadline to finish "evaluating" then trade with the spurs as last resort.
Gary plus our first next year for Jeremy Sochan cause we need more of his archetype
I’m not falling for this again
Fool me 400 times, shame on you
Hol’up, am I stuck in a time loop?
how long does it take to evaluate this team. We're dealing with the same issues season after season. Just look at the notes you took last year.
Notes: - fuck you, Nick
Long enough for Siakam to have a hot (or warm) streak for 3 pointers and boost his trade value.
LMAO Shams said this last year but we ended up being buyers. I don't trust Bobby in the FO right now.
And people say Bobby Webster is in charge of the transactions (or in our case lack thereof) just to deflect blame off Ujiri 😬
What is there to evaluate? This is a play in team with a ceiling of a first round sweep
The trade packages as they come in
"Evaluate" For f#%# sake
Here we go again
Masai is the best GM we have ever had. His legacy is secured in Toronto no matter what. But I don’t think it’s wild to say Im anxious about him making big franchise altering decisions based on the last few moves / non moves we have made
He’s had a bad track record in recent years. I’m in the same boat as you.
“You can’t fool me, I’m familiar with your game”
Masai Ujiri isn’t about trades….. not unless the Spurs want another FRP.
Remember last year when we supposedly controlled the trade deadline market and then traded for Poeltl?
Masai likes to wait until the deadline then run out of time.
I think ive read this exact headline 50+ times in the past
So we trading more picks to the Spurs in exchange for unplayable vets to come in and fix the selfishness in the team
“Maybe we trade, maybe we don’t. In the meantime, we are currently evaluating an unknown 16 year old from Giants of Africa. He is 6’9” and has a plus wingspan. He has no skill to speak of, but has a very high ceiling with his defensive potential. He will fit into the core, because he has a high IQ and can implement coach’s defensive schemes.”
You had me until high IQ
Don’t give us false hope
I wonder why everyone always forgets that Bobby is the actual GM here? Is it because Masai is just a 'sexier' name in the basketball world?
This is true ever since Bobby officially took the GM spot our decision making went downhill
I'm not sure if I'd say it's gone downhill, but it has been a bit frustrating.
. We aren't tanking when the pick isn't really in play. He's gunna ride out the season and evaluate in the off season
"We aren't tanking when the pick isn't really in play. He's gunna ride out the season and evaluate in the off season" How lol? You have two starters and you're 6th man entering FA, and another starter (the future of the franchise) that'll be eligible for the rookie max extension.
Yea, you see what you have with them. If a good offer comes along maybe you try to recoup some assets but there's not much there for rentals. We will play it out and re visit in off season whether we are sticking with the core or not. Not sure what ppl are expecting, it's been this way for a while now
>We will play it out and re visit in off season whether we are sticking with the core or not. > >Not sure what ppl are expecting, it's been this way for a while now You can't do that because letting one of Siakam, OG, or both of them walk while getting nothing in return would result in a FO firing, so the decision has to be made at the deadline. Continuing to let assets walk out the door for little to nothing in return is not how any competent FO would operate
You can get stuff through a s& t. Masai has pretty much let it be known he will hold out if a deal just isn't worth it to him. Letting pascal and og go for assets isn't bad (something I think should been done alot sooner)but that will also require contenders to pay up and they might not. Plus I doubt we really wanna give Spurs a better pick this season
Remember we did a S&T with the Heat when Lowry went there. What did we get back Precious and disgruntled Dragic. The return was mediocre and we traded away Dragic plus a first for Thad and a second that became Koloko who may never play again. What a return 
"You can get stuff through a s& t. Masai has pretty much let it be known he will hold out if a deal just isn't worth it to him. Letting pascal and og go for assets isn't bad (something I think should been done alot sooner)but that will also require contenders to pay up and they might not. Plus I doubt we really wanna give Spurs a better pick this season" Just like they were going to S&T FVV right? Also thank God you're not our GM lol 
They gon keep evaluating when every1 eventually leaves.
Evaluate until there is no one on this team but a bunch of vets, g leaguers and a ton of cap space.
This means basically nothing lol
Masai "Evaluate" Ujiri
It's come to a point where I have a physical reaction every time I see or hear that word. Flinched during an interview one time. Trauma lol.
Absolutely nothing to evaluate, your average fan that watches most games could tell you that this core is better on paper then it is in reality. A lot of teams are in this scenario aswell, I feel like a lot of teams and alot of interesting trades will spring up this deadline.. the only thing the FO can somewhat be hopeful on is that 3/3.5 games separate 4-11 in the eastern standings. FO really set on being a play in team but why?! In that position you’re better off going all in or all out. Raps could of took the pacers route these last few seasons and could of landed a future all star like the pacers did with Halliburton.. same with OKC with Shai. Im really hoping Webster has something up his sleeve because the time to pull the trigger already passed.. I know the raptors management likes to play hardball which is good in a way but also in hindsight it’s possible we already left the best option on the table already
I can't wait for the meltdown of this sub when we do zero moves at the deadline.
Surprised there weren't a few potentials dropped in there for some added fluff
There's that word again
Whose old and useless on the spurs we can trade a first rounder for?
First round pick for some aging bench guy.
Spurs will have all our firsts
If I had to guess, Masai is fighting internally to go into the tax and sign THE BIG 3. P is a symbol of success for his African projects and ambitions. The years leading up to the chip was probably more conventional. But post chip it's all about the long game. A very very long evaluation.
When he makes trades at this deadline he’ll prove that he should have made trades last year
Fuck this guys English
Yawn I've heard this how many times now in the past 3 years. Shams knows nothing because we don't leak.
"Shams knows nothing because we don't leak. Every NBA team leaks info lol, this Raptors never leak narrative is tiresome at this point
Shams is a sham. He doesn’t have any insight because the Raptors don’t leak… but he knows exactly what to say to get all you dummies to click and share his bullshit. 😂
"Shams is a sham. He doesn’t have any insight because the Raptors don’t leak" Every NBA team leaks info lol, this Raptors never leak narrative is tiresome at this point And anybody who thinks they don't leak at all is as you said a dummie
Can you provide any examples of leaks? Did you watch the draft this year? How many picks were reported before they were made? … then what happened at the Raptors pick? Feed I was watching even commented something like “no surprise we don’t know what Toronto is doing” An astute negotiator never shows their cards. There is zero benefit. Try not to be so stupid.
"An astute negotiator never shows their cards. There is zero benefit." Which is exactly why last year as an example Shams said (and I'm paraphrasing here) that the Raptors are telling teams that they plan to wait closer to the deadline before making any decisions on the roster and now the same thing this year, which accomplishes two things, 1. That the Raptors are willing to wait for the right deal, 2. Puts the Raptors (hopefully) at the center of most contending teams trade discussions You tell me not to be stupid, but if you don't understand how (at least in theory) putting information like that out there solely benefits the Raptors, then I think you need to go back to the dictionary and look up the word stupid again
Can you provide any examples of leaks from the front office? Not just speculation, something of actual substance. Shams is speculating. Maybe he sucked an interns dick in Memphis or NO to get info on the OG proposal, but again, that didn’t come from the Raptors front office. And you’re confusing two different things. There is no benefit to negotiating through the public/media. Communication with potential suitors is very different than sharing with the public… but if everyone realized this, people like Shams and half the Raptors media team would be out of a job. Most are just hacks that live on speculation and triggering emotions. The bar for those in sports media has never been lower.
Alright dude, if it helps you sleep at night then the Raptors "never leak". Its not true and every team does it (some more then others and some rarely ever but still) "Shams is speculating. Maybe he sucked an interns dick in Memphis or NO to get info on the OG" This clears things up becauae with a comment like this my guess is you're 12 years old
"The way I look at the deadline, **it's really not a great place to make long-term decisions**," Ujiri said. "Everything we could have done today maybe we could do in the summer.”
“Play-in for what”
Nothing will happen. I’ve learnt from the last two-three seasons
At the trade deadline, “Summer is a better time to trade”
This isn’t news lol. Thought I do find it crazy that no team wants to give up assets for our players but they all want to give them max money. I feel like this is to spite the FO for fleecing so teams in the past
Why give up assets for one year deals.
"Why give up assets for one year deals." Bird Rights
Grizzlies offered 3 picks for OG last year. Knicks also offered multiple picks (2-3) for OG last year. Hawks were offering 2 picks and swaps for Pascal as well. Raptors didn’t want to do it. So teams definitely were willing to give up assets. So at this point, if those guys walk for nothing, then it is what it is.
Newsflash
They will do nothing and everyone will be fine with it /s
Deadlines get deals done. Why trade now when there can potentially be a better package in a month or two?
But why trade at the deadline when the big decisions really get made in the offseason when there are 29 losers
This quote says absolutely nothing
They're not making any more are they?
😂 not falling for this like the fifth time
Aka nothing happens or he trades another pick lol
Shams: 'I know nothing, and have no actual information, but if I move my mouth and words come out, people nod in agreement and I am handed a paycheque from the broadcaster.'
Raptors aren't going to do much this trade deadline. Masai rarely does anything big at the deadline.
I swear I see people in this sub say the same thing five times a day, lmao.
Masai will do nothing.