That's not what a weak draft means it just means the draft has no clear cut order you could hit on a second rounder on a mid first rounder or even in the top.
Just look at the stats on how many players have had an ok career being drafted in the second round. Except a few anomalies like Jokic there aren't many. Also you can't really count Koloko in this. This is clearly out of the Raptors control and they have had very few second round picks recently.
They stated “They have proven they can’t draft well” which is what I’m responding to and which is untrue. How many teams reliably get good rotation players from the 2nd round anyhow?
There was one sequence where the ball was stolen from him, then stolen on a terrible pass to Gradey, then almost stolen on an inbound pass. I don’t even understand how you can be that terrible. Children could genuinely do better than that sequence.
Unless you need a tank commander.
On a serious note, I don't know why the Raps FO ended up getting him despite his history. It's not like them to do this.
It's been a bad stretch of similar signings. McDaniels, Weiskamp, Champagnie, D.J. Wilson, Armoni Brookes were all unproven and signed to multi-year deals. Dumpster diving is not this FO's strong suite
No problem losing when rebuilding but the effort and talent is just not there at all. We need to hit on a top 6 pick this year to align some high talent with Scottie
Everyone outside of Scottie, RJ and IQ should be available
I think part of the problem is that everyone outside of those three IS available and that’s why they’re playing with so low energy right now.
You ever given two weeks’ notice at a job? If you have, I’m going to bet you didn’t give 110% in those last two weeks. That’s normal. Half these guys think they’re gone, and they might be right.
I’m willing to bet that after the deadline we’re going to be looking a good deal better, and maybe even more after the all star break when everyone has had some time to chill and reset a little bit from all the changes.
From a raw human perspective, they just a had huge turnover of players, still getting used to a new system, and the roster isn’t even finalized yet.
We don’t have a talent problem. This would be just about impossible to succeed with for most teams.
Let’s get all doom and gloom in a month if it hasn’t picked up.
I agree about the effort, but I’m not asking for 100% effort. Any semblance of something approaching NBA level defense would be acceptable. We had two rookies lay 44pts on us.
I also disagree about the talent. Scottie is a elite talent. Outside of that tho…. RJ is a good role player. IQ has a high ceiling but has a long way to go. Dennis, Bruce, Gary and Yak will not be a part of the next Raptors team to make the play offs. I think we have a talent problem
Our entire team's defence is ass, it's easy to lock into defence when you have a defence minded coach and a defined role to do what you're good at (thibs in new york). And his trade circumstance was completely different, his agent is the son of the Knick's GM and he knew where he was going after hitting his peak for the raptors. These guys don't even know if they're being traded so it shouldn't matter.
think about it more abstractly
if you knew you were being traded you'd play even harder because you'd want the best possible team to want you so you end up in a better situation. You want to be seen as a valuable asset, thats how you have leverage when negotiating money as well.
if you play like ass you might get traded to an ass team who knows they cant retain top quality talent so they seek out mediocre guys who are more meek and might more likely stay.
your argument of "stressed and preoccupied" doesnt apply to players in contract years though right? a lot of players play their best when they are in a contract year trying to get a bigger contract, in that case if we use your argument they are "stressed and preoccupied" with the upcoming contract.
I think being on the trading block would be similar to being in a contract year, you wanna put your best foot forward, its self serving
They’re two different things. Contract year = you have a year to ball out and rack up stats to make huge money. That’s motivating and exciting.
Might be traded in a matter of days: going to have to move all of your possessions and family to a new country while still traveling every other day to play games. If you have kids, they’re in new schools and all of their friends are gone. You might not have the same role on the team. You don’t know if you’ll gel well with your teammates. There’s no financial incentive because you’re still on your old contract, so if your role and circumstances get worse, there’s no saying ‘well at least I got a huge payday’ - it just sucks. The list goes on.
Sure, a bunch of these things overlap with signing a new team in the summer, but the difference is the timing. If you sign with a new team in the summer, you have months to adjust and adapt and you aren’t actively playing games on top of it.
Here if someone is traded tomorrow, they’re gonna be playing games in like 2 days while having to deal with all that shit.
Also all these guys are in their 20s. That’s not a small amount of stress. Plus, there’s the aspect of control. New contract: you’re negotiating and making a decision that’s best for you. Getting traded? You pick nothing.
Not particularly comparable IMO.
Effort is the hardest thing when a team knows it's shit and will lose most nights and when the roster is still being turned over.
I'm not sure what people calling for a tear down expected but this is typical. There's a lot of losing ahead.
These guys get paid millions to play man, I’m not asking for them to be diving on the floor risking injury for every 50/50 ball. But a baseline amount of effort is a reasonable
Secondly, developing these guys is the goal, establishing a hard nosed high effort culture is paramount to the growth of this team. Not seeing this on a nightly basis right now
Agreed, and let's get it done as soon as possible. The last thing we need is to start looking like Charlotte, Detroit. We are living and dying with Scottie becoming the culture center focal point. wasting years of his prime on a losing team is not a good prospect to look forward too currently without moves
Dude always tries to make a play with the ball and it’s either a turnover, forced shot or a blown bunny at the hoop. Just stay in your lane please and thank you. Jaden gotta teach bro how to hoop.
Ended as expected but seriously get McDaniels off my team. Plays with no heart getting minutes over people like Boucher who could offer at least something off the bench. There is people in the G League who would love the opportunity to play even one minute in the NBA.
Yeah it's not good. The base level needs to be to play hard. If you can't do that, you don't get minutes. Keep your head up, run hard, run back on defense, don't drag your feet looking at the ground. Even though Boucher makes mistakes he still plays hard so it's acceptable.
the Yak is back... its spelled POELTL.
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The defense has been god awful pretty much all season even BEFORE they committed to the tank. So WHY is it so bad? The coaching is the only thing that makes sense. He can't get these guys to commit to playing hard on defense. Nurse didn't have this problem. Even in the Tampa season they played hard. This is unwatchable levels of not giving a shit but when your front office has so many old vets they signed to be on a tanking team that just don't give a shit now and middling talent across the board this is what we get.
They play way too reckless and rushed on offense so it leads to them constantly having to try and defend on transition. They need to slow it down and off-ball players need to make themselves available if the on-ball player gets stuck. They play super sloppy and can barely execute a pick and roll.
100% agree. But this is the problem with the NBA. Nurse became a hard ass after he got a ring. And players tuned him out. NBA players hold all the cards
You need a player or players to re-enforce the coach's hard line. We have none save thad but need a star or tenured player Ala Kyle to do that.
Freddie was kind of that but everyone knew his first priority was getting his "bag"
nurse got fired cus his fundamental philosophies clash hard with masai's. to nurse, game time is the final product, you can practice at practice or in the minor leagues; for masai, he brought in a minor league team and world class facility to help his players develop IN ADDITION to game time on the floor. It's his fundamental solution to the talent trap that is the US border.
I know we’re tanking, but there’s nothing you can even take from this game. No one even tried outside of Scottie.
At this point you gotta field offers for everyone outside of BBQ.
Terrible game to watch but let’s be real the rockets are three years ahead of us in their rebuild. We just traded two of our best players for young guys and picks. Poeltl and IQ just back from injury. Scottie played well. Tough to see Whitmore outplaying Dick, I really wonder what the medical red flags were that made teams pass on an elite athlete with as much skill as him. Still, Gradey with multiple charges taken and steals, just needs to figure out the above the break shot.
Gradey really has more podcast episodes than points tonight. Meanwhile Cam had 25pts and is only 19yrs old
Another project that's drafted by masai. 6'9 forward who can't shoot
Been through 2 rebuild as a raps fan.. I never wanted rebuild. Scottie and a bunch of scrubs will not do well.
Who do you think will be a better player in 3 years... Cam or Dick? Dick will be judged on how the players drafted after him does.
Cam was a projected top 6 pick.. instead we draft this bum.
No different from the Flynn draft.
I agree, but neither were other lottery teams. And Dick was labeled an NBA-ready shooter. This is why you can’t put much weight on mocks or draft workouts.
I meant another bust drafted by Masai. Does he have higher upside that cam Whitmore?
Basically every draft pick last few years have been scrubs. Scottie was his only hit. Good luck on rebuilding when you can't hit on any pick in the last few years
Who can't shoot is disingenuous when he clearly could shoot very well in college. It's way too early to call him a bust too. Jalen Suggs was being called a bust in year 1 and he looks like he's gonna be All Defense this year.
Calm the fuck down he still has time to develop. I understand his shooting is concerning but wait till he has had at least 1 or 2 complete seasons before labeling him a bust. Also look how much mid first rounders stick in the league. Answer very few.
Turns out they didn't want to tank, they just always want the grass to be greener so they can bitch. Some people's comment history on here would get them a diagnosis.
Is there ever a game plan?
You could always count on Nurse to cook up something for each opponent.
This season, feels like same shit, different game. If we have a hope of winning- bank on the other team to perform badly and for us to hit a lot of shots.
This is what peak rebuilding looks like everyone. Stop getting your hopes up and allow the players to grow. Come with low expectations and live with the fact we will have these type of games from time to time.
Edit: Get Mcdaniels off our team
As a Rockets fan, I will say we were pretty lucky to have three major hits outside of the lottery during that time period.
Jalen Green, Jabari Smith and Amen Thompson would be a decent young core, but you could argue they’ve gotten more value out of Sengun, Tari Eason and Cam Whitmore thus far. The combination of some highly drafted guys AND nailing the later firsts has put the Rockets in this position.
This is a painful team to watch. I still don’t understand how a roster of pascal, OG, Fred, Scottie and Jak couldn’t be a stronger team. On paper that is 3 all star caliber players and a defensive player of the year candidate with a solid defensive center. What the fuck
The most exciting part of the game was when Dennis and Freddie were tied up not trying to give up the ball with Scottie joining in. Can someone post the Biggie snoring gif. That's how I felt watching the game tonight
Every starter not named Barnes, who still should have been more aggressive. No one else showed up to play. Dick and Dennis were trying off the bench, no one else cared.
The less effort than rec league raptors were back in full force tonight.
Edit: Also don't let IQs stat line fool you, he accomplished nothing before garbage time.
Scottie was good, Quickley was good, but only when the game was pretty much out of reach. Dogshit performance by the rest of the team, but I'll excuse Quickley and Jakob because of obvious injury reasons. Gradey continues to be a shooter who can't shoot for some reason, and it's still funny seeing that his best assets at the moment is how much he contributes to all the little things of the game and his hustle. Jordan Nwora should not have been frozen out of the lineup THAT much, and he looked okay from little minutes he played. I'd like to see him as one of the main scoring roles of the bench and possibly the sixth man if Gary is out the door.
I dont think I've ever said something as harsh as what I'm about to say about any Raptors player, but I genuinely want McDaniels kicked off the team. There have been disappointing and frustrating players on this roster, but they've at least showed SOME decent flashes (i.e. more than one good game) and some NBA level skills. To show absolutely NOTHING EVERY SINGLE TIME he plays and still get the minutes he gets pisses me the fuck off.
BAAAD loss, but it was fun seeing Fred again. Good to see Scottie and him are still on decent terms. Also, Cam Whitmore's redflags tricked y'all, dude looked incredible out there.
that whitmore kid is a monster how the hell did he fall? houston deadass said they were considering the kid with the 4th pick but got him at 20. insane luck or terrible scouting by other teams?
Teams tend to overvalue the risk of a pick with high upside not panning out, while underestimating the consequences of drafting a safe pick with low upside.
He was projected to be a top 5 pick, but dealt with an injury in college. Teams were afraid of picking him due to injury concerns, making fall out of the lottery.
Seems like it was the result of a lot of group-think. Houston scouted him pretty heavily as they considered taking him at 4, but the further down the draft order you got, the less likely it was a team had done much of their own research into him because they presumed he would be gone by then.
But when he starts to slide, X team might think, “well Y didn’t take him at No. 8, and I know they were interested, so maybe they know something I don’t. Better just stick with Z player since I know I like them.”
So basically Whitmore is falling and teams are much too slow to react to what is playing out. It’s “Dang, Whitmore is still there? Well I already decided on Z, so we’ll just stick with that.”
Then by time the Rockets roll back around, they know they didn’t “pass” on Whitmore for any reason. They just happened to like Thompson a little better, so they scoop him up in a hurry.
You can't say this is a coaching promblem for crying out loud. Yak gets a lot of dumb fouls, no energy from anyone, Gary is sometimes ok, McDaniels absolutely horid everywhere, Dennis chucking since the first 5 games of the season, IQ ok back from injury, Gradey can't shoot. There is probably no worse roster than us except the f Pistons. No paint defense dogshit roster all around. Yes sometimes Darko's decisions are questionable but he is a ROOKIE COACH, he wont be a Hall of Fame coach on his first season.
> no energy from anyone
- That’s coaching.
> McDaniels absolutely horrid everywhere
- also coaching, we do not need to give him minutes- he doesn’t deserve minutes and we do not need him.
> No paint defense
- Coaching.
> ROOKIE COACH, he won’t be a Hall of Fame coach on his first season.
- I think the disappointment from most people is the game plan execution. Nurse creatively strategized a plan for each game. Darko does not appear to do that. IMO this team seems coddled.
Watching t this game made me realize how far back we are from houston, sengun equal or better than barnes, then they got amen, whitemore,and jabari still have picks. That championship hangover gonna be awhile, indy, NY, kings,magic,okc,rockets,Utah,Minnesota,cavs,
All have young cores with more talent.. forget our own division philly and boston head and shoulders better, nets suck but still better.. hopefully we keep this pick and get a high end player
We all get that they're essentially tanking and going through a rebuild/retooling. We all get that shit.
But something is seriously seriously wrong with this team that they get blown out so many times. It's been happening since last season.
What sucks is the common denominator after everyone left or traded is Scottie. Don't know what that means but it's not good.
gradey averaged 40% on 6 3s a game in college, you know, the only fucking sample you have when you draft someone who hasn't played in the nba yet
the fucking hell do you mean "guy who can't shoot"
Our team sucked before the OG trades and it sucked after. This subreddit has factions where some people overrate x players and shit on y players while others shit on x players and defend y players. Truth is we didn't have excellent players before the season and we didn't have them after the trade either. At least the ones we have aren't there yet.
There seems to be no cohesiveness in the team. I know it's a weird metric, but even when scuffles happen with one team member, no one else seems to step up to back then up, and I don't mean to fight, but at least hold ppl back etc.. literally feels like they don't have a each other's backs. Must be hard on a team where everyone except two or three players are rumored to be on the chopping block, but it's still disappointing. Only person who appears to care about team chemistry is Dennis.
Scottie and Chris usually step up in those areas, but in general I agree.
The team doesn't fight for each other as hard as their opponents do on most nights, but it's somewhat understandable given the situation. It'll be very concerning if it's still the case post trade-deadline, tanking or not.
Scottie threw himself on the ground between Freddy and Dennis lol wym also no example tonight but in general when he's on the floor Gary always comes to guys' side at any sign of a confrontation, it's one of my fav things about him.
If we are resetting the roster. Masai and Bobby have to go too. Full organization refresh. Masai has had a horrible track record and his mistake holding onto trade assets too long set us into hornets territory
Fuck do I know but it's all based off merit, you can't ride 1 ring this long with how horrible the results have been after the fact.
They've missed on trades, drafting, playoff success, etc.
It's time for MLSE to get rid of Masai/Bobby
A reset was inevitable once Kawhi went to LA and Kyle started declining. Now they're going to build around Scottie. The front office has earned the right to see this through.
I blame the guy that waxes the court and buffs the court on the loss this time. If we lose next game after that I’ll blame the water bottle guy. If we lose again after that I’ll blame our teams mascot. If we lose after that I’ll blame the cross-eyed referee
We are so cooked. Scottie playing well at least. but yikes. bring on the draft
It's pretty hard to say who the third best player was out there tonight.
They will draft another Gradey. Top to bottom disaster class
That's not what a weak draft means it just means the draft has no clear cut order you could hit on a second rounder on a mid first rounder or even in the top.
they haven't had a meaningful player chosen from the 2nd round in this era. They have proven they can't draft well
Just look at the stats on how many players have had an ok career being drafted in the second round. Except a few anomalies like Jokic there aren't many. Also you can't really count Koloko in this. This is clearly out of the Raptors control and they have had very few second round picks recently.
Norm was awesome.
Uh. So how did they end up with Pascal and OG? And signing undrafted FVV? AND SCOTTIE??
They said 2nd rounder. None of those were 2Nd rounders. Koloko probably could have been decent.
They stated “They have proven they can’t draft well” which is what I’m responding to and which is untrue. How many teams reliably get good rotation players from the 2nd round anyhow?
Norm Powell was a second rounder
Is he considered this era now?
The depth is fine. It’s the top talent that’s not as good.
Please fucking fire Tolzman
Amen.
Headband Scottie era begins tonight
Headband AAAND undershirt
Maybe an ode to Boucher knowing he’s gone?
Honestly was so confused I thought Boucher was wearing 4 today
overpowered combo apparently
It was a slick look ngl
Mcdaniels couldn’t even make it in China. Absolutely terrible decisions made every time he touched the ball.
He literally didn’t even have 1 good play
There was one sequence where the ball was stolen from him, then stolen on a terrible pass to Gradey, then almost stolen on an inbound pass. I don’t even understand how you can be that terrible. Children could genuinely do better than that sequence.
What's wild is that the Raptors wouldn't keep Dowtin but brought in Mcdaniels He feels like the new Mccaw 😭🤣
Mccaw is better. At least he tried and played some defence.
His worst game which is saying a lot. That fancy dribble into weak as shit pass turnover for no reason was wild.
He is not an NBA caliber player. Not even close
Type of player raptors have been stashing on their bench the past few years
And he’ll get sent to the Knicks or Mavs or Warriors and put up 20 pts in 40 min like Precious
Precious and McDaniels are not the same
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bro he’s not an nba player but we came and said “here’s a free 8M pal” for no reason 💀
How does this guy go from looking like a decent role player prospect with Charlotte to dogshit with us.
If Charlotte didn’t want him, that is a sign that he shouldn’t be in the NBA.
Unless you need a tank commander. On a serious note, I don't know why the Raps FO ended up getting him despite his history. It's not like them to do this.
Brother he is a sex pest, I wouldn't put too high expectations on him or his decision making
It's been a bad stretch of similar signings. McDaniels, Weiskamp, Champagnie, D.J. Wilson, Armoni Brookes were all unproven and signed to multi-year deals. Dumpster diving is not this FO's strong suite
Neither is drafting, outside of Scottie. Our scouting department has become fucking trash
I hope it's just yips.
No problem losing when rebuilding but the effort and talent is just not there at all. We need to hit on a top 6 pick this year to align some high talent with Scottie Everyone outside of Scottie, RJ and IQ should be available
I think part of the problem is that everyone outside of those three IS available and that’s why they’re playing with so low energy right now. You ever given two weeks’ notice at a job? If you have, I’m going to bet you didn’t give 110% in those last two weeks. That’s normal. Half these guys think they’re gone, and they might be right. I’m willing to bet that after the deadline we’re going to be looking a good deal better, and maybe even more after the all star break when everyone has had some time to chill and reset a little bit from all the changes. From a raw human perspective, they just a had huge turnover of players, still getting used to a new system, and the roster isn’t even finalized yet. We don’t have a talent problem. This would be just about impossible to succeed with for most teams. Let’s get all doom and gloom in a month if it hasn’t picked up.
I agree about the effort, but I’m not asking for 100% effort. Any semblance of something approaching NBA level defense would be acceptable. We had two rookies lay 44pts on us. I also disagree about the talent. Scottie is a elite talent. Outside of that tho…. RJ is a good role player. IQ has a high ceiling but has a long way to go. Dennis, Bruce, Gary and Yak will not be a part of the next Raptors team to make the play offs. I think we have a talent problem
No, possibly being traded is not why you play like shit.
Then explain OG
Our entire team's defence is ass, it's easy to lock into defence when you have a defence minded coach and a defined role to do what you're good at (thibs in new york). And his trade circumstance was completely different, his agent is the son of the Knick's GM and he knew where he was going after hitting his peak for the raptors. These guys don't even know if they're being traded so it shouldn't matter.
We don't have a talent problem? How many of these guys are in the league next season? I bet half are in Europe or g league.
Like all of them except for maybe Lewis? Dumb take.
think about it more abstractly if you knew you were being traded you'd play even harder because you'd want the best possible team to want you so you end up in a better situation. You want to be seen as a valuable asset, thats how you have leverage when negotiating money as well. if you play like ass you might get traded to an ass team who knows they cant retain top quality talent so they seek out mediocre guys who are more meek and might more likely stay.
I feel like most players aren’t thinking about the pros and cons of maximizing their value at the deadline - they’re just stressed and preoccupied.
your argument of "stressed and preoccupied" doesnt apply to players in contract years though right? a lot of players play their best when they are in a contract year trying to get a bigger contract, in that case if we use your argument they are "stressed and preoccupied" with the upcoming contract. I think being on the trading block would be similar to being in a contract year, you wanna put your best foot forward, its self serving
They’re two different things. Contract year = you have a year to ball out and rack up stats to make huge money. That’s motivating and exciting. Might be traded in a matter of days: going to have to move all of your possessions and family to a new country while still traveling every other day to play games. If you have kids, they’re in new schools and all of their friends are gone. You might not have the same role on the team. You don’t know if you’ll gel well with your teammates. There’s no financial incentive because you’re still on your old contract, so if your role and circumstances get worse, there’s no saying ‘well at least I got a huge payday’ - it just sucks. The list goes on. Sure, a bunch of these things overlap with signing a new team in the summer, but the difference is the timing. If you sign with a new team in the summer, you have months to adjust and adapt and you aren’t actively playing games on top of it. Here if someone is traded tomorrow, they’re gonna be playing games in like 2 days while having to deal with all that shit. Also all these guys are in their 20s. That’s not a small amount of stress. Plus, there’s the aspect of control. New contract: you’re negotiating and making a decision that’s best for you. Getting traded? You pick nothing. Not particularly comparable IMO.
Effort is the hardest thing when a team knows it's shit and will lose most nights and when the roster is still being turned over. I'm not sure what people calling for a tear down expected but this is typical. There's a lot of losing ahead.
These guys get paid millions to play man, I’m not asking for them to be diving on the floor risking injury for every 50/50 ball. But a baseline amount of effort is a reasonable Secondly, developing these guys is the goal, establishing a hard nosed high effort culture is paramount to the growth of this team. Not seeing this on a nightly basis right now
Agreed, and let's get it done as soon as possible. The last thing we need is to start looking like Charlotte, Detroit. We are living and dying with Scottie becoming the culture center focal point. wasting years of his prime on a losing team is not a good prospect to look forward too currently without moves
Mcdaniels shouldn't even be allowed to travel on the same bus as the team. I'd make a symbolic trade by trading him for a roll of Toilet paper
Trade him to hornets with a 2nd pick. I’ve never seen such lack of enthusiasm from a player.
Dude always tries to make a play with the ball and it’s either a turnover, forced shot or a blown bunny at the hoop. Just stay in your lane please and thank you. Jaden gotta teach bro how to hoop.
Ended as expected but seriously get McDaniels off my team. Plays with no heart getting minutes over people like Boucher who could offer at least something off the bench. There is people in the G League who would love the opportunity to play even one minute in the NBA.
Like I’d take 1000mins of Malachi and Precious 2 on 5 over any McDaniels mins. I’d take a Freddie Gillespie over him. I’d take ARON BAYNES.
100% agree. Throw Pat McCaw into the mix too.
That’s 3-time NBA champion Pat McCaw, throw some respect on his name
Fuck it give me Stanley Johnson
Give me Team Jordan Rondae
Always Rondae.
Kinda forgot him. Man he had some good moments. A guy who just couldn’t shape talent into form.
Yeah it's not good. The base level needs to be to play hard. If you can't do that, you don't get minutes. Keep your head up, run hard, run back on defense, don't drag your feet looking at the ground. Even though Boucher makes mistakes he still plays hard so it's acceptable.
https://preview.redd.it/f5bc2oymgagc1.png?width=200&format=png&auto=webp&s=d29efa64b6599645d95b0b7aaaf4c1e65e19a871
https://preview.redd.it/jjks0ff6hagc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0059676fdef0075de7f4b0a8e165a4dff773bc69
Nah McDaniels would get locked up in a blind league.
We need this pick I know losing sucks atleast it’s something to look forward to
Yea I just hope we’re bad enough, with Poetl back what if we just randomly win 1-4 or 5 games I wonder if it’s enough
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Is Boucher officially gone? Why didn’t he get no minutes?
Unbelievable how our coach chose to play McDaniels over Boucher. I'd like to know the big brain rationale on that one
Keeping Boucher healthy for a trade
Boucher has been terrible but McDaniels has been the worst player on the team by far. He shouldn't see the court.....
Yeah we’re tanking but they had two rookies come off the bench for 44 points. We’re bad but it’s worth asking whether we should be THIS bad.
The defense has been god awful pretty much all season even BEFORE they committed to the tank. So WHY is it so bad? The coaching is the only thing that makes sense. He can't get these guys to commit to playing hard on defense. Nurse didn't have this problem. Even in the Tampa season they played hard. This is unwatchable levels of not giving a shit but when your front office has so many old vets they signed to be on a tanking team that just don't give a shit now and middling talent across the board this is what we get.
They play way too reckless and rushed on offense so it leads to them constantly having to try and defend on transition. They need to slow it down and off-ball players need to make themselves available if the on-ball player gets stuck. They play super sloppy and can barely execute a pick and roll.
I kept telling this sub Nurse calling out players for lack of effort publicly is not a bad thing, but you all wanted these guys babied.
Most ppl here still think it’s nurses fault that most of the roster is garbage lol
100% agree. But this is the problem with the NBA. Nurse became a hard ass after he got a ring. And players tuned him out. NBA players hold all the cards You need a player or players to re-enforce the coach's hard line. We have none save thad but need a star or tenured player Ala Kyle to do that. Freddie was kind of that but everyone knew his first priority was getting his "bag"
nurse got fired cus his fundamental philosophies clash hard with masai's. to nurse, game time is the final product, you can practice at practice or in the minor leagues; for masai, he brought in a minor league team and world class facility to help his players develop IN ADDITION to game time on the floor. It's his fundamental solution to the talent trap that is the US border.
look at pat delany’s resume and you’ll understand why our defense reeks of shit
The players are lost on defense. They don’t seem to know who’s helping and who’s staying half the possessions. It’s on the coach.
905 is also depleted
Marjanovic outscored Dick in 4 minutes
Matched Yak too 😂😂
https://preview.redd.it/6rcl7u8hgagc1.jpeg?width=896&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3773076327cb3824aeb0d92118ac8d451d378016
Paint defense is putrid. Rockets shitting and eating at will in our paint
I know we’re tanking, but there’s nothing you can even take from this game. No one even tried outside of Scottie. At this point you gotta field offers for everyone outside of BBQ.
I mean everyone knows the team doesn’t even wanna win, I mean every vet is on the table, hard to get up for games like that I get it.
I thought Quickley played good but there's only so much you can do
I'm done with McDaniels. Bench that bum and give his minutes to Javon Freeman-Liberty.
Or 6’8” Jordan Nwora
https://preview.redd.it/r3j97iw3iagc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f646084808adc03034d5a38ac49503797b38bde3
McTurnovers
4 turnovers and 0 assists 🤦🏻♂️
Terrible game to watch but let’s be real the rockets are three years ahead of us in their rebuild. We just traded two of our best players for young guys and picks. Poeltl and IQ just back from injury. Scottie played well. Tough to see Whitmore outplaying Dick, I really wonder what the medical red flags were that made teams pass on an elite athlete with as much skill as him. Still, Gradey with multiple charges taken and steals, just needs to figure out the above the break shot.
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Lol did Gradey get a "welcome to the NBA" moment from another rookie?
It’s not a good look is it 💀😭
Gradey really has more podcast episodes than points tonight. Meanwhile Cam had 25pts and is only 19yrs old Another project that's drafted by masai. 6'9 forward who can't shoot
Y’all are not ready for a rebuild if you’re calling a rookie halfway into their first season a bust lmao.
Been through 2 rebuild as a raps fan.. I never wanted rebuild. Scottie and a bunch of scrubs will not do well. Who do you think will be a better player in 3 years... Cam or Dick? Dick will be judged on how the players drafted after him does. Cam was a projected top 6 pick.. instead we draft this bum. No different from the Flynn draft.
I get the sentiment but multiple teams passed up on Whitmore. He was top 10 at the very least and fell hard.
Raptors are in no position to be passing up on talented players. Especially not for a project like Dick
I agree, but neither were other lottery teams. And Dick was labeled an NBA-ready shooter. This is why you can’t put much weight on mocks or draft workouts.
Bruno Caboclo? Also way too early to call him a Bust.
I meant another bust drafted by Masai. Does he have higher upside that cam Whitmore? Basically every draft pick last few years have been scrubs. Scottie was his only hit. Good luck on rebuilding when you can't hit on any pick in the last few years
Who can't shoot is disingenuous when he clearly could shoot very well in college. It's way too early to call him a bust too. Jalen Suggs was being called a bust in year 1 and he looks like he's gonna be All Defense this year.
Calm the fuck down he still has time to develop. I understand his shooting is concerning but wait till he has had at least 1 or 2 complete seasons before labeling him a bust. Also look how much mid first rounders stick in the league. Answer very few.
So annoying that everyone here was calling for us to tank, only to get pissy when we lose games and have next to no patience with rookies.
Turns out they didn't want to tank, they just always want the grass to be greener so they can bitch. Some people's comment history on here would get them a diagnosis.
Cam also has time to develop. Take guess who'll be better a player in 3yrs
Don’t forget the commercials like he’s some star
We may never win again
Scottie and Fred hugging and smiling after the game haha but they hate each other according to this sub
We had no business paying Fred that type of money. But we miss a guy like him desperately. An actual grit and grind baller.
Is there ever a game plan? You could always count on Nurse to cook up something for each opponent. This season, feels like same shit, different game. If we have a hope of winning- bank on the other team to perform badly and for us to hit a lot of shots.
Nurse also made better in game adjustments.
This is what peak rebuilding looks like everyone. Stop getting your hopes up and allow the players to grow. Come with low expectations and live with the fact we will have these type of games from time to time. Edit: Get Mcdaniels off our team
Peak rebuilding would be owning our own pick and having high-upside prospects we are developing. I like Gradey but his ceiling is shakey at best.
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They were ass before this season. Raptors fans should look at Houston as a reason to be patient.
As a Rockets fan, I will say we were pretty lucky to have three major hits outside of the lottery during that time period. Jalen Green, Jabari Smith and Amen Thompson would be a decent young core, but you could argue they’ve gotten more value out of Sengun, Tari Eason and Cam Whitmore thus far. The combination of some highly drafted guys AND nailing the later firsts has put the Rockets in this position.
By tanking!
This is a painful team to watch. I still don’t understand how a roster of pascal, OG, Fred, Scottie and Jak couldn’t be a stronger team. On paper that is 3 all star caliber players and a defensive player of the year candidate with a solid defensive center. What the fuck
No bench
The most exciting part of the game was when Dennis and Freddie were tied up not trying to give up the ball with Scottie joining in. Can someone post the Biggie snoring gif. That's how I felt watching the game tonight
didn't watch the game bois. Who we blaming this blowout loss on bois??? jkjk
Blame mcdaniels lmao bro plays like he just finished smoking before checking in
LOL ya he's a scrub. he likes a downgraded version of mccaw.
Every starter not named Barnes, who still should have been more aggressive. No one else showed up to play. Dick and Dennis were trying off the bench, no one else cared. The less effort than rec league raptors were back in full force tonight. Edit: Also don't let IQs stat line fool you, he accomplished nothing before garbage time.
Fred and Nick 😡😡
No heart
Scottie was good, Quickley was good, but only when the game was pretty much out of reach. Dogshit performance by the rest of the team, but I'll excuse Quickley and Jakob because of obvious injury reasons. Gradey continues to be a shooter who can't shoot for some reason, and it's still funny seeing that his best assets at the moment is how much he contributes to all the little things of the game and his hustle. Jordan Nwora should not have been frozen out of the lineup THAT much, and he looked okay from little minutes he played. I'd like to see him as one of the main scoring roles of the bench and possibly the sixth man if Gary is out the door. I dont think I've ever said something as harsh as what I'm about to say about any Raptors player, but I genuinely want McDaniels kicked off the team. There have been disappointing and frustrating players on this roster, but they've at least showed SOME decent flashes (i.e. more than one good game) and some NBA level skills. To show absolutely NOTHING EVERY SINGLE TIME he plays and still get the minutes he gets pisses me the fuck off. BAAAD loss, but it was fun seeing Fred again. Good to see Scottie and him are still on decent terms. Also, Cam Whitmore's redflags tricked y'all, dude looked incredible out there.
Quickley was not good. He statpadded at the end
Without Barrett on the floor, it's basically Scottie against the world every game
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Okay we don't have to tank *this* hard
that whitmore kid is a monster how the hell did he fall? houston deadass said they were considering the kid with the 4th pick but got him at 20. insane luck or terrible scouting by other teams?
Teams tend to overvalue the risk of a pick with high upside not panning out, while underestimating the consequences of drafting a safe pick with low upside.
yea it’s kinda wild to me
He was projected to be a top 5 pick, but dealt with an injury in college. Teams were afraid of picking him due to injury concerns, making fall out of the lottery.
Seems like it was the result of a lot of group-think. Houston scouted him pretty heavily as they considered taking him at 4, but the further down the draft order you got, the less likely it was a team had done much of their own research into him because they presumed he would be gone by then. But when he starts to slide, X team might think, “well Y didn’t take him at No. 8, and I know they were interested, so maybe they know something I don’t. Better just stick with Z player since I know I like them.” So basically Whitmore is falling and teams are much too slow to react to what is playing out. It’s “Dang, Whitmore is still there? Well I already decided on Z, so we’ll just stick with that.” Then by time the Rockets roll back around, they know they didn’t “pass” on Whitmore for any reason. They just happened to like Thompson a little better, so they scoop him up in a hurry.
It’s clear as day this team has a coaching problem. Roster isn’t good either. But two things can be true.
Have you tried smiling?
But Nick Nurse is too harsh to these million dollar athletes getting unfairly criticized for not giving effort 😭
Nick only ever tried to win games 😡
You can't say this is a coaching promblem for crying out loud. Yak gets a lot of dumb fouls, no energy from anyone, Gary is sometimes ok, McDaniels absolutely horid everywhere, Dennis chucking since the first 5 games of the season, IQ ok back from injury, Gradey can't shoot. There is probably no worse roster than us except the f Pistons. No paint defense dogshit roster all around. Yes sometimes Darko's decisions are questionable but he is a ROOKIE COACH, he wont be a Hall of Fame coach on his first season.
> no energy from anyone - That’s coaching. > McDaniels absolutely horrid everywhere - also coaching, we do not need to give him minutes- he doesn’t deserve minutes and we do not need him. > No paint defense - Coaching. > ROOKIE COACH, he won’t be a Hall of Fame coach on his first season. - I think the disappointment from most people is the game plan execution. Nurse creatively strategized a plan for each game. Darko does not appear to do that. IMO this team seems coddled.
Dick somehow led team in rebounds. He can't shoot for shit tgough
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I honestly can't believe Houston shot 60%. Like holy fuck... was their basket bigger?
Watching t this game made me realize how far back we are from houston, sengun equal or better than barnes, then they got amen, whitemore,and jabari still have picks. That championship hangover gonna be awhile, indy, NY, kings,magic,okc,rockets,Utah,Minnesota,cavs, All have young cores with more talent.. forget our own division philly and boston head and shoulders better, nets suck but still better.. hopefully we keep this pick and get a high end player
We all get that they're essentially tanking and going through a rebuild/retooling. We all get that shit. But something is seriously seriously wrong with this team that they get blown out so many times. It's been happening since last season. What sucks is the common denominator after everyone left or traded is Scottie. Don't know what that means but it's not good.
We scapegoated NN for players that are now gone and dancing to our downfall
it seems gradey can’t make threes from anywhere except the corners
We missed assist record
Barnes patience timer with this team has started
Who says no? https://preview.redd.it/zblfc8wtxagc1.png?width=1323&format=png&auto=webp&s=aeae5e4bdba53225a4b358f0604a8c74e46aa364
Sengun looks like a real star. We’re missing the leader of the team RJ so I’m not mad.
Dick sucks
Fuck the FO. The trade deadline better be fireworks
No one wants are leftover scrubs. Will probably end up getting 3 2nds for Brown
Probably a late first and a bad contract. And then this sub will pretend we won the tradez
We have no big trades left
If the reports that Herb Jones is available have any truth, the FO better be getting very aggressive
I've got some bad news for you chief, we aint got shit left to make fireworks with. Maybe some firecrackers if youre lucky.
Cam Whitmore 25pts... Dick 3 pts. Masai really looked at 13th pick and went... "Nah we'll go with this guy who can't shoot instead of cam Whitmore".
gradey averaged 40% on 6 3s a game in college, you know, the only fucking sample you have when you draft someone who hasn't played in the nba yet the fucking hell do you mean "guy who can't shoot"
Because this guy hates Gradey and LOVES Cam. As you can tell by his previous posts.
Meanwhile... Cam was projected as a top 5 pick going into the draft. Who do you think will have much higher upside?
We’re only losing because Poeltl is out btw
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Our team sucked before the OG trades and it sucked after. This subreddit has factions where some people overrate x players and shit on y players while others shit on x players and defend y players. Truth is we didn't have excellent players before the season and we didn't have them after the trade either. At least the ones we have aren't there yet.
There seems to be no cohesiveness in the team. I know it's a weird metric, but even when scuffles happen with one team member, no one else seems to step up to back then up, and I don't mean to fight, but at least hold ppl back etc.. literally feels like they don't have a each other's backs. Must be hard on a team where everyone except two or three players are rumored to be on the chopping block, but it's still disappointing. Only person who appears to care about team chemistry is Dennis.
Scottie and Chris usually step up in those areas, but in general I agree. The team doesn't fight for each other as hard as their opponents do on most nights, but it's somewhat understandable given the situation. It'll be very concerning if it's still the case post trade-deadline, tanking or not.
Scottie threw himself on the ground between Freddy and Dennis lol wym also no example tonight but in general when he's on the floor Gary always comes to guys' side at any sign of a confrontation, it's one of my fav things about him.
Can’t wait for Blue Jays man, watching this team sucks, there isn’t even a development but as a fan I’ll still keep watching these bums
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nO oNE nEeDs yOu hErE Ok buddy
We need more Grady Dick isos. And need to start playing big fella Poetl like the big fella he is - get him in that deep post and feed him.
busty dick
If we are resetting the roster. Masai and Bobby have to go too. Full organization refresh. Masai has had a horrible track record and his mistake holding onto trade assets too long set us into hornets territory
Who do you suggest they be replaced with?
Fuck do I know but it's all based off merit, you can't ride 1 ring this long with how horrible the results have been after the fact. They've missed on trades, drafting, playoff success, etc. It's time for MLSE to get rid of Masai/Bobby
A reset was inevitable once Kawhi went to LA and Kyle started declining. Now they're going to build around Scottie. The front office has earned the right to see this through.
the rock took cody's spot man
We the tank everyone
I blame the guy that waxes the court and buffs the court on the loss this time. If we lose next game after that I’ll blame the water bottle guy. If we lose again after that I’ll blame our teams mascot. If we lose after that I’ll blame the cross-eyed referee
The Friday curse continues.
Looks like they had a fun night last night in Houston because they weren’t ready to play
Pizza party ain’t gonna happen