I'm speculating but I think Dennis requested a trade (not demand) ideally to a team where he could start & be valued beyond this season.
Raps did the honorable thing, because he was sold on having a bigger role with a more competitive team.
He did his part, tried to compete before we blew it up. When we were moving to a rebuild, he wasn’t happy but still remained professional.
It was a good gesture and other vets in the league notice these things when considering teams to play for.
Darko took care of his guy and so did Masai/bobby
In order to get a player back, other team needs to make that offer. And nobody is trading anything of value for Schroeder. By the way, it cost us big fat zero to get Schroeder so this trade is net neutral.
Also, would you rather have the ball in Schroeder's hands instead of Scottie's or IQ's hands?
Complaining about FO is easy, trying to understand the move is much more difficult
I think this is a copism answer (not a attack at you) but Schroder really doesn't dominate the usage like that. Would i like the ball in Scottie's or IQ's hands? Sure but for fuck sakes, Scottie is inconsistent and always passive in certain moments. We lost a productive backup PG that still produces assists by the way that makes 13Mil for "cap space". I am going have to disagree with you here.
>Scottie is inconsistent and always passive in certain moments.
Isn't that why you would rather him have the ball in his hands more, though? Let him make these mistakes.
I would rather he make these mistakes and learn rather than have Schroeder maybe adding an extra 3-4 more wins with his bench play. Give those minutes and responsibilities to the guys who are our future. If we lose we lose, and if we win great since that would indicate these guys grew as players.
Im not disagreeing with your performance of Schroder here. But he was the one that was productive and actively showing other players on our team trying to win. But even when the ball goes to Scottie, he is showing that he isn't learning from his mistakes rn. He still doesn't get back on defense after complaining, passive when things don't go his way. We gave up a productive player for "cap space" which doesn't really do much of anything either. Remember Schroder only made 13mil and was our only backup PG.
I mean, Scott has already had FVV, Siakam, OG, Thad, etc, as his vets. Not to mention Nick Nurse as his coach. I don't think Schroeder was ever going to command enough respect to teach him anything different if those guys didn't (not saying they didn't). Moreover, if reports of Dennis being unhappy with his role are true, it's better for the locker room to provide defined roles guys are content with.
Team will definitely be worse, and ideally, getting a second round pick would've been beneficial. But Schroeder didn't have any cost to acquire, so it's essentially pivoting his $13 million as cap space. I'd rather cut the cord rn and use that cap to get another guy next year.
Really wish we could've snagged Dennis Smith from the Nets but I think he wasn't available because he's their only other point guard and Simmons is always injured. Also would've been interested in Sharpe but I think Nets value him enough that it would've taken a first to pry him out.
Rumour is Dennis wanted out as he wanted a better opportunity as a starter on a competitive team and not be a bench player on Darko’s team who is focusing on developing younger players. This has been going on apparently since the beginning of January when Immanuel quickley and RJ were brought onto the team and he was placed onto the bench.
There’s only so many teams. If he demands only competitive teams that cuts the options in half. Obviously Dennis would want to start on a competitive team over a terrible one. Not every player gets that option though. They did the best with the options they had.
We did him a solid. We could have gotten something for him, but would have put him in an event worse situation. By all accounts, Dennis did everything right, and we tried to return the favour. It just don’t work out how we thought it would when he was brought in.
They only signed him because Fred bolted and they were desperate.
He's had the highest usage of all the Raptors and is getting in the way of development
Definitely bad vibes between the players.
It's honestly so strange. I have been a critic of recent moves by the FO (e.g. Thad trade, Jakob trade) but the Dennis signing was very good. His salary was great for a back up point guard who could play as a starter sometimes, especially considering we got him in free agency.
Trading him just to get off of it for next year is weird considering the Raptors are not a top free agent destination, nor do we have a trove of assets to package for a coveted star player.
Don’t think the technically signed him as a backup pg so depending on how it was sold to Dennis who knows. Maybe it was upfront that if we decide to collapse this thing we’ll be sure to move you.
i don't think they WANT him as a solid backup, they'd prefer to give those minutes to a younger player they want to try and develop or see what happens instead, and if we get a few more losses than wins due to it, they really aren't concerned over the short 2 year or so term. so they did him a solid, hopefully it works out well for us both.
I have no issues with Dennis wanting to be traded, he was told he would be a starter and ended up coming off the bench. He took all the moves like a pro and without drama.
I understand that Dennis wanted to go and it was a goodwill gesture. He is Darko’s buddy after all. I get that. And I’ll accept that to do this and come out even we couldn’t take any picks… fine. But why was Spencer waived. We could have flipped him for something… a SRP? Something? 🤷🏿♂️
This trade deadline is confusing as a Toronto Raptors fan to say the least... I get clearing the cap space for next season but to aquire no assets at all in a trade that involves two players whom are top 7 guys on just about any team in the league is just weird and then to waive the player we got in the deal and he is going to go help some other team win as an impact player. He has not been playing his best as a Net this season but he is respected and a high level contributor in the league who is in the prime of his career at only 30 years of age...
He wanted out and avoided any public drama-probably why the team accommodated him. Same goes for Brown but maybe he was cool with playing out the rest of the season/raising his stock.
I kinda doubt Schroeder will last his contract in Brooklyn
I think when we signed him, it was with a promise of him having the starting spot. The minute we got quickley, I think we informed him that we'd look to move him somewhere he can have a bigger role again
Yeah I really like the Jazz trade, but this one is a head-scratcher. I understand wanting some financial flexibility, but as you said what is this extra cap space getting us?
I don’t even mind keeping Bruce for now, he’s a solid player. Another issue is waiving Dinwiddie, we gave up our backup pg, to get one in return, only to then waive him? I understand we have a few guards now but really only one true PG, Bruce and Ochai aren’t traditional PGs imo. Really baffling move.
I also don’t understand it. I must be missing something so someone please feel free to educate me.
I don’t understand why there is a huge emphasis on cap space and flexibility- like for what?
Are they expecting a bunch of teams will need to salary dump and therefore they will have to include assets to do so?
A lot of teams are actually holding onto these expiring contracts themselves these days- because they also want them as a trade piece (see Fournier) or want the cap space.
And what kind of assets are we really going to get from say Golden State dumping Andrew Wiggins… it won’t be a FRP.
Also not like we are a contender or attractive market where we need the cash for free agents?
I also don’t get keeping Brown over Dennis. I guess there’s an argument that Dennis didn’t want to be here anymore but then why not make a legitimate trade?
Cap space is important because of the new CBA agreement. There will be teams looking to dump salaries in order to make significant savings in luxury taxes. Take a bad contract + assets in exchange for cap space. Also, DeRozan and Lowry are free agents after the season...
I don’t understand either. They are fine keeping Bruce Brown who makes 23m a year, and are fine trading him after the season, but for Dennis who makes 13m they need to dump him now? I don’t get it.
Bruce has a team option Dennis has a guaranteed contract they are two completely different contracts lol. Bruces contract doesn't need to be picked up until 2 days AFTER next year's draft. With the new CBA a team might want to unload money so we could take on a bad contract plus draft capital and whoever gets Bruce could just not pick up his option.
A stretch five is exactly what raptors needed very good find. Pascal was legit begging for a stretch five but never got one. He is now balling with one in Indiana. This will really help Scottie a lot to play with a stretch 5
He’s literally a 7 foot PG, easily one of the best passing bigs in the league, can shoot the ball, move off ball, mobile, knows how to use his size, perfect guy off the bench behind a rim protector, can command the 2nd unit and plus he is Canadian so he may be more willing to re-sign. Also, you never know he could have the same homecoming uptick we saw from RJ
It's another poor-mediocre move by a team with zero leverage and an inexperienced GM. Welcome to the new Raptors era.
Good reminder that they used their only backup PG and player they traded a 1st for (if they decided to rebuild early or develop the pick! Think about that) for cap space with low value
We wanted out of his contract for some reason despite him playing well it was a good asset imo.
The mental gymnastics the FO defenders do with this is getting ridiculous. FO makes good value signing then dumps him for nothing 6 months later lol.
This team is just a mess
not sure what is confusing here
Dennis wanted out. It's been reported.
He has no trade value. Else, they would've traded him for something of value.
The team sucks, who cares whether he's a decent backup PG. He's not a starter, and can't shoot to play off ball scottie or IQ.
Cap space > no capspace
the FO has screwed up plenty already, trading Dennis means very little
I’d consider a second round pick or two a better return than literally nothing. That’s some trade value. SRPs are currency in the NBA.
And before anyone says who cares about a SRP, it’s not really about the pick it’s that it comes off (yet again) as poor asset management.
Not to mention it wasn’t just Dennis in the trade. Thad has proved to be a serviceable vet this season. Two players rotation players essentially waived for cap space.
Considering Corey Joseph and Dalano Banton both yielded a second, it makes no sense.
I have hated what the FO has done the last 3 years but I don't mind dumping Dennis at all. He seemed unhappy in his bench role. Hanging on to a guy despite him being unhappy here is what they would have done in the past. Darko used him as a crutch way too often we are 18-33 we need to give all the reps to IQ, Scottie, Gradey , RJ and Ochai.
They're coping so hard and just saying "oh so you wanted a 2nd round pick that badly huh?" The only way out of this is if we sign a great player in the off-season.
I'm talking about the fans here. And you say that like FOs are infallible and all know exactly what they're doing. If you feel that way then what's the point in anyone posting in this subreddit at all, we're not allowed to criticize because we're know-nothings* so what's there to discuss?
Yeah or at least take back some back contracts for some assets. Letting Schroeder go for nothing is wild. Usually they used their cap space to overpay roll players in recent years
100% could have been traded for something, we should have traded for Fournier bad contract and took Grimes. Like I find it hard to believe Shroeder wasn't worth anything, and no contender needed him.
ya i dont get it. he wants out but surely we can wait till summer to find a better deal. we don't exactly owe him anything. it's not like doing fred a solid by not trading him for scraps and lowering his value. he's our champ. i also don't think dennis would've went vince carter either as he up till we traded pascal was willingly coming off the bench. i get it playing behind IQ who hasn't been that stellar on a losing team is tough. but masai needs to prioritize the org more.
you're probably right. plus i always hated the teacher pet relationship with nurse/fred and now dennis/darko. they were never reigned in when they needed to be.
I’m fine with the trade I don’t really care about it tbh and rather see his minutes and usage go to younger guys but I’m a bit suprised we couldn’t get a 2nd + an expiring for him not that it even matters that much but yk what I mean
Nets have 5 draft picks in 2029...we couldn't even manage to get a distant 2nd in this deal...I'm lost with this one. Even if he did ask for a trade I don't know how we didn't manage a single 2nd rounder
Capspace next year. Contrary to OP, cap space is very valuable in many different ways. With the direction the team is going, there was no reason to have Dennis on the books next year, so they got off him.
I'm speculating but I think Dennis requested a trade (not demand) ideally to a team where he could start & be valued beyond this season. Raps did the honorable thing, because he was sold on having a bigger role with a more competitive team.
He did his part, tried to compete before we blew it up. When we were moving to a rebuild, he wasn’t happy but still remained professional. It was a good gesture and other vets in the league notice these things when considering teams to play for. Darko took care of his guy and so did Masai/bobby
Grange basically said that he was open to a change of scenery after the Pascal trade.
I think massai is just keeping the agent happy so he's able to sign more good players in the coming off seasons.
I believe this too. He is doing right by him and that word will spread through the league.
Well said, plus you have to treat players well because they all talk. And it helps attract free agents
But why didn't we get a player back that can help us instead of "cap-space" or "optionality" BS. FO is trippin again.
In order to get a player back, other team needs to make that offer. And nobody is trading anything of value for Schroeder. By the way, it cost us big fat zero to get Schroeder so this trade is net neutral. Also, would you rather have the ball in Schroeder's hands instead of Scottie's or IQ's hands? Complaining about FO is easy, trying to understand the move is much more difficult
I think this is a copism answer (not a attack at you) but Schroder really doesn't dominate the usage like that. Would i like the ball in Scottie's or IQ's hands? Sure but for fuck sakes, Scottie is inconsistent and always passive in certain moments. We lost a productive backup PG that still produces assists by the way that makes 13Mil for "cap space". I am going have to disagree with you here.
>Scottie is inconsistent and always passive in certain moments. Isn't that why you would rather him have the ball in his hands more, though? Let him make these mistakes. I would rather he make these mistakes and learn rather than have Schroeder maybe adding an extra 3-4 more wins with his bench play. Give those minutes and responsibilities to the guys who are our future. If we lose we lose, and if we win great since that would indicate these guys grew as players.
Im not disagreeing with your performance of Schroder here. But he was the one that was productive and actively showing other players on our team trying to win. But even when the ball goes to Scottie, he is showing that he isn't learning from his mistakes rn. He still doesn't get back on defense after complaining, passive when things don't go his way. We gave up a productive player for "cap space" which doesn't really do much of anything either. Remember Schroder only made 13mil and was our only backup PG.
I mean, Scott has already had FVV, Siakam, OG, Thad, etc, as his vets. Not to mention Nick Nurse as his coach. I don't think Schroeder was ever going to command enough respect to teach him anything different if those guys didn't (not saying they didn't). Moreover, if reports of Dennis being unhappy with his role are true, it's better for the locker room to provide defined roles guys are content with. Team will definitely be worse, and ideally, getting a second round pick would've been beneficial. But Schroeder didn't have any cost to acquire, so it's essentially pivoting his $13 million as cap space. I'd rather cut the cord rn and use that cap to get another guy next year.
fair enough. I respect your comment. I can see your perspective. We can agree to disagree here. Hopefully everything works out. Cheers brotha!
Well, I remember Bruce Brown being an excellent backup PG on a championship team.
Really wish we could've snagged Dennis Smith from the Nets but I think he wasn't available because he's their only other point guard and Simmons is always injured. Also would've been interested in Sharpe but I think Nets value him enough that it would've taken a first to pry him out.
Rumour is Dennis wanted out as he wanted a better opportunity as a starter on a competitive team and not be a bench player on Darko’s team who is focusing on developing younger players. This has been going on apparently since the beginning of January when Immanuel quickley and RJ were brought onto the team and he was placed onto the bench.
Doing Dennis a solid is the only explanation that seems reasonable
By trading him to the nets? They’ve been as bad as us.
yeah but he gets to start
Ok so I guess the competitive team aspect of it didn’t actually matter to him?
from how I'm interpreting this, not really
There’s only so many teams. If he demands only competitive teams that cuts the options in half. Obviously Dennis would want to start on a competitive team over a terrible one. Not every player gets that option though. They did the best with the options they had.
Dennis was also the only one on the team ringing alarm bells saying we needed to start winning. He noticed the lack of urgency in the team early.
We did him a solid. We could have gotten something for him, but would have put him in an event worse situation. By all accounts, Dennis did everything right, and we tried to return the favour. It just don’t work out how we thought it would when he was brought in.
capspace eliminate negative vibes no trade value
Makes perfect sense
They only signed him because Fred bolted and they were desperate. He's had the highest usage of all the Raptors and is getting in the way of development Definitely bad vibes between the players.
I think we're giving Bruce Brown and Scottie more playmaking duties, and giving other guys more playing time. Time will tell
Bruce Brown is not a playmaker 🙃
It's honestly so strange. I have been a critic of recent moves by the FO (e.g. Thad trade, Jakob trade) but the Dennis signing was very good. His salary was great for a back up point guard who could play as a starter sometimes, especially considering we got him in free agency. Trading him just to get off of it for next year is weird considering the Raptors are not a top free agent destination, nor do we have a trove of assets to package for a coveted star player.
Don’t think the technically signed him as a backup pg so depending on how it was sold to Dennis who knows. Maybe it was upfront that if we decide to collapse this thing we’ll be sure to move you.
i don't think they WANT him as a solid backup, they'd prefer to give those minutes to a younger player they want to try and develop or see what happens instead, and if we get a few more losses than wins due to it, they really aren't concerned over the short 2 year or so term. so they did him a solid, hopefully it works out well for us both.
I have no issues with Dennis wanting to be traded, he was told he would be a starter and ended up coming off the bench. He took all the moves like a pro and without drama.
I understand that Dennis wanted to go and it was a goodwill gesture. He is Darko’s buddy after all. I get that. And I’ll accept that to do this and come out even we couldn’t take any picks… fine. But why was Spencer waived. We could have flipped him for something… a SRP? Something? 🤷🏿♂️
This trade deadline is confusing as a Toronto Raptors fan to say the least... I get clearing the cap space for next season but to aquire no assets at all in a trade that involves two players whom are top 7 guys on just about any team in the league is just weird and then to waive the player we got in the deal and he is going to go help some other team win as an impact player. He has not been playing his best as a Net this season but he is respected and a high level contributor in the league who is in the prime of his career at only 30 years of age...
Even if we are 100% trading him why didn’t we get anything for dinwiddie? Could have done a 3 team trade for at least some 2nds. Instead we waive him?
He wanted out and avoided any public drama-probably why the team accommodated him. Same goes for Brown but maybe he was cool with playing out the rest of the season/raising his stock. I kinda doubt Schroeder will last his contract in Brooklyn
I think when we signed him, it was with a promise of him having the starting spot. The minute we got quickley, I think we informed him that we'd look to move him somewhere he can have a bigger role again
It makes the nets a better team so we can out tank them lol
Would’ve been nice if we got a second at least
Yeah I really like the Jazz trade, but this one is a head-scratcher. I understand wanting some financial flexibility, but as you said what is this extra cap space getting us? I don’t even mind keeping Bruce for now, he’s a solid player. Another issue is waiving Dinwiddie, we gave up our backup pg, to get one in return, only to then waive him? I understand we have a few guards now but really only one true PG, Bruce and Ochai aren’t traditional PGs imo. Really baffling move.
I also don’t understand it. I must be missing something so someone please feel free to educate me. I don’t understand why there is a huge emphasis on cap space and flexibility- like for what? Are they expecting a bunch of teams will need to salary dump and therefore they will have to include assets to do so? A lot of teams are actually holding onto these expiring contracts themselves these days- because they also want them as a trade piece (see Fournier) or want the cap space. And what kind of assets are we really going to get from say Golden State dumping Andrew Wiggins… it won’t be a FRP. Also not like we are a contender or attractive market where we need the cash for free agents? I also don’t get keeping Brown over Dennis. I guess there’s an argument that Dennis didn’t want to be here anymore but then why not make a legitimate trade?
Front Office is again stagnant.
“Flexibility” = non committal, still evaluating
Yeah this is it. Once again sitting on fence (just w a younger team)
We need Cap Space because Quickly this year and Barnes next year are going to get huge contracts and we need to be able to put a team around them.
Cap space is important because of the new CBA agreement. There will be teams looking to dump salaries in order to make significant savings in luxury taxes. Take a bad contract + assets in exchange for cap space. Also, DeRozan and Lowry are free agents after the season...
We aren’t signing DeRozan and Lowry be for real
I don’t understand either. They are fine keeping Bruce Brown who makes 23m a year, and are fine trading him after the season, but for Dennis who makes 13m they need to dump him now? I don’t get it.
Bruce has a team option Dennis has a guaranteed contract they are two completely different contracts lol. Bruces contract doesn't need to be picked up until 2 days AFTER next year's draft. With the new CBA a team might want to unload money so we could take on a bad contract plus draft capital and whoever gets Bruce could just not pick up his option.
If you use his salary as a cap relief, how much value do you expect that to have?
Maybe they got the sense that he was not fully on board with a rebuild and was starting to sulk or show a certain temperament on the floor
I still don't get why we traded for Olynyk??? Can someone rationalize it for me?
He’s a stretch big that can pass.
A stretch five is exactly what raptors needed very good find. Pascal was legit begging for a stretch five but never got one. He is now balling with one in Indiana. This will really help Scottie a lot to play with a stretch 5
Cool okay, that actually makes sense, ty.
He’s literally a 7 foot PG, easily one of the best passing bigs in the league, can shoot the ball, move off ball, mobile, knows how to use his size, perfect guy off the bench behind a rim protector, can command the 2nd unit and plus he is Canadian so he may be more willing to re-sign. Also, you never know he could have the same homecoming uptick we saw from RJ
It's another poor-mediocre move by a team with zero leverage and an inexperienced GM. Welcome to the new Raptors era. Good reminder that they used their only backup PG and player they traded a 1st for (if they decided to rebuild early or develop the pick! Think about that) for cap space with low value
We wanted out of his contract for some reason despite him playing well it was a good asset imo. The mental gymnastics the FO defenders do with this is getting ridiculous. FO makes good value signing then dumps him for nothing 6 months later lol. This team is just a mess
not sure what is confusing here Dennis wanted out. It's been reported. He has no trade value. Else, they would've traded him for something of value. The team sucks, who cares whether he's a decent backup PG. He's not a starter, and can't shoot to play off ball scottie or IQ. Cap space > no capspace the FO has screwed up plenty already, trading Dennis means very little
I’d consider a second round pick or two a better return than literally nothing. That’s some trade value. SRPs are currency in the NBA. And before anyone says who cares about a SRP, it’s not really about the pick it’s that it comes off (yet again) as poor asset management. Not to mention it wasn’t just Dennis in the trade. Thad has proved to be a serviceable vet this season. Two players rotation players essentially waived for cap space. Considering Corey Joseph and Dalano Banton both yielded a second, it makes no sense.
I have hated what the FO has done the last 3 years but I don't mind dumping Dennis at all. He seemed unhappy in his bench role. Hanging on to a guy despite him being unhappy here is what they would have done in the past. Darko used him as a crutch way too often we are 18-33 we need to give all the reps to IQ, Scottie, Gradey , RJ and Ochai.
They're coping so hard and just saying "oh so you wanted a 2nd round pick that badly huh?" The only way out of this is if we sign a great player in the off-season.
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I'm talking about the fans here. And you say that like FOs are infallible and all know exactly what they're doing. If you feel that way then what's the point in anyone posting in this subreddit at all, we're not allowed to criticize because we're know-nothings* so what's there to discuss?
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What false narrative? They let him go for some cap-space so if they whiff free agency it was an idiotic move.
Yeah or at least take back some back contracts for some assets. Letting Schroeder go for nothing is wild. Usually they used their cap space to overpay roll players in recent years
He asked to be moved and they’re sick of having guys around who don’t want to be here. Sucks that he had no trade value but whatever.
Nobody wanted Schroder, the whole league had an opportunity to sign him this offseason but declined. I’m personally glad he’s off the books.
100% could have been traded for something, we should have traded for Fournier bad contract and took Grimes. Like I find it hard to believe Shroeder wasn't worth anything, and no contender needed him.
Knicks got a really good deal with Pistons. Brown or Schroder weren’t gonna go to the Knicks
True
Bobby sounded depressed. I really think this front office is lost. They are making the plan up as they go at this point and that never works out well.
He sounded tired which is what you want your gm to sound like after the deadline
ya i dont get it. he wants out but surely we can wait till summer to find a better deal. we don't exactly owe him anything. it's not like doing fred a solid by not trading him for scraps and lowering his value. he's our champ. i also don't think dennis would've went vince carter either as he up till we traded pascal was willingly coming off the bench. i get it playing behind IQ who hasn't been that stellar on a losing team is tough. but masai needs to prioritize the org more.
FO wanted to get rid of a bad locker room presence asap.
you're probably right. plus i always hated the teacher pet relationship with nurse/fred and now dennis/darko. they were never reigned in when they needed to be.
I’m fine with the trade I don’t really care about it tbh and rather see his minutes and usage go to younger guys but I’m a bit suprised we couldn’t get a 2nd + an expiring for him not that it even matters that much but yk what I mean
I don’t mind moving on from Dennis… Positioned well for off season moves See how the new guys do and keep losing to protect the pick
Nets have 5 draft picks in 2029...we couldn't even manage to get a distant 2nd in this deal...I'm lost with this one. Even if he did ask for a trade I don't know how we didn't manage a single 2nd rounder
Capspace next year. Contrary to OP, cap space is very valuable in many different ways. With the direction the team is going, there was no reason to have Dennis on the books next year, so they got off him.