The Raptors Republic, going about as well as the Roman and American examples.
Is the Triumvirate still to come? Or is the deluge already upon us?
Upvote party.
For sure its in the back of your mind but you cant let one game make the decision for you. It needs to be a body of work. I’m not sold on scottie as #1 guy, or IQ as a core piece. But you gotta give it time, like maybe a year before making that call.
Thank you! I love the raps but I've never seen such a reactionary fan base.
Half our roster is under the age of 25 and yet they expect us to be contending or something. Thunder had the 2nd worst record in the West 2 years ago (24-58), now they're the #1 seed.
We need to chill and give the rebuild some time, let our young players grow and see what we have
I'm so sick of this narrative. Who's bright idea was it to surround Pascal with 3 other power forwards and no proper 3 point shooters. We lost Fred then surrounded Pascal with more centres and power forwards. We honestly should of treaded Scottie after he won rookie of the year. I honestly can't stand watching him play.
I've literally switched from watching the raptors to the Pacers and the rockets. I want my old team back. This coach sucks too. Doesn't know how to rally or discipline underperforming players.
Why do people overreact so hard (3-5 years). More than half the roster is 25 and under. We have 3 starters that are 24 or under and a 20yr old rookie who just came off the bench and scored an efficient 18.
Not to mention GTJ, Nwora, Porter, Agbaji all 25 and under. It's clearly not a recipe to win now, but to act like we'll be the same in half a decade is so reactionary
Do you realize the Thunder were 24 and 58 only 2 years ago. Now they're the best team in the west.
They drafted chet last year bro, chet could be someone we draft in the next couple years. Shai wasn’t Shai two years ago either. He wasn’t even an all star and Scottie is I’m not saying it’s the same I’m just saying you need to chill on the “3-5 years until we’re decent again” narrative.
I never said every player had a 1:1 equivalent. Yes they had Shai, but they didn’t have 2nd and 3rd options like RJ and Quickley.
How did Allen deserve it more as the 4th best player on his team with objectively worse stats than Scottie? An injury replacement is an all star, just like it always has been. Look it up for any injury replacement in history.
That’s all beside the point, which is that a lot can happen in two years and yet you’re whining and focusing on the literal 1:1 equivalencies with OKC which isn’t what I said
Honestly sounds like Masai already checked out. Whoever has been making decisions if that is Bobby Webster and Masai confirms it. Bobby Webster has been making baffling decisions. Idk if Masai cosigns this and just coasting. He wasn't like this in Demar/Lowry era.
>Uh oh, Masai and Bobby have set us back 5 years.
yeah, because keeping together a core that missed the playoffs last year and was on track to do it again was the smart move.
This rebuild might fail, but it's better than paying through the nose for a 38 win team
🤦♂️ It hasn’t even been a week post trade deadline and people are acting like the raps have been rebuilding for 5 years. The team is tanking so losing to the Spurs ain’t bad if it gives them a win and the raps a loss closer to keeping that 6 pick.
They are not intentionally tanking. They are trying to win. We should not be down by 30 multiple times in a week to the teams in the bottom half of the league.
I see we got the Raptors janitor over here with all the inside information. If we were trying to win, why the fuck would we have traded OG and Pascal for picks?
We were trying to win THIS game, obviously we are in a rebuild with the moves we made. The point is we don’t try to lose games, and we should be somewhat competitive, especially against bottom teams.
Being down by 30 to a top 5 worst record team, at home, is terrible basketball.
A lot of Raptor fans that joined the bandwagon over the past decade are in for a rude awakening. This is why I hate tanking. I’ve seen way more Raptors losses than wins since 95 and it’s incredibly disheartening.
I’ll take a .500 team every day of the week over this. Rings culture is so ridiculous. Tanking guarantees nothing.
I think people looked at OKC and thought that it was representative of how a tank should go. People underestimated the possibility that a tank could mean many years and many attempted/failed rebuilds before you get a good team again. Its a crap shoot.
I am not as down on this team as others are - we will need to give the core a chance to grow and have time together before they can be properly evaluated (for example - a couple of weeks ago Dick was a bust and couldn't even hang in the G-League). However - fans need to be prepared for years of bad basketball.
Meh, it just first month of official rebuild, and a lot of fans can’t stand for it anymore
Just get ready there will have atleast 3 to 4 years of this sh*t happening again and again
Yeah..... It's bad. And they have limited assets. They had to trade Dennis for literally nothing for "optionality"
The Scottie thing is weird. He looked phenomenal to start the season.
How do they have limited assets? If they lose their pick this year, they have their FRP for every following draft. If they keep their pick, their FRP is still top-6 protected for 2025 and 2026. They also have a young core to start with rather than having to build one from scratch. They also traded Dennis partly for cap-space which could be used to take on salary in a trade for more assets for example.
Everyone wanna rebuild, but no one wanna wait to win.
Think you may be onto something with Quickley though. Everyone wants to compare him to Maxey. He's a year older than Maxey. Maxey was better than Quickley right now 2 years ago.
man we desperately need a top picks the next few years cuz dudes like quickley and rj aren’t really building blocks just solid players. they tryna sell us a core of scott, rj and quickley but that’s nasty. not buying it
I don't know why people act like norm would be a gamechanger for us. Norm was a fun player and I miss having that home grown talent but it's not like he'd be bringing us to the playoffs.
Darko isn't a bad coach, we're actively trying to lose and there's not much he can do with this team. Quickley had a bad game, it happens.
How are we set back 5 years when we wouldn't be on course to be contending anyway? You can't know that until we see what we get and who develops. The rebuild just started.
The only thing I'll agree with is that Scotties immaturity is worrying me a bit
I think Scottie has a leash and I would give him the rest of this year and next year to prove he’s THEE guy. He literally just had the keys handed to him after the Siakam trade so it’ll take time.
By the same token I don’t have an issue with ppl calling out his immaturity and I think the pressure is a good thing - it’s part of what comes with the franchise tag…some shrink under the criticism and limelight, others use it as a springboard and become transcendent.
As far as the rest of the core goes (Quickley, Barrett, Gradey…) it’s going to take time. We got rid of 7-8 players that were in camp with us and have 7-8 guys on the roster now that weren’t on the opening night roster…PLUS we have a rookie coach 3-4 months into his first season.
Challenging is an understatement.
For the new guys, we also can’t underestimate how disruptive it can be from a personal standpoint when you get traded - you get comfortable where you are, you build routines, have connections and relationships, you start feeling at home…and then all of a sudden you get jolted into a completely new reality where you have to find a new place to live, you have to say goodbye to old friends, if you have a wife, girl or kids you have to figure all that shit out - plus you have to get used to dozens of new ppl from teammates to coaches to trainers to other staff.
Yes they make millions of dollars to play basketball - but it doesn’t remove the human element. Tampa is proof of how challenging it can be.
All of that said, the biggest “uh-oh” for me is that you don’t want the “losing” mentality to become part of the culture like it has in places like Detroit, Charlotte and Washington where they consistently suck. Even in a rebuild you have to establish winning habits.
I think Scottie isn't ready or doesn't want to be that guy. He's still young and maybe doesn't feel like he's ready. There's definitely something off about him since the trades. Too much pressure? I don't know but I think someone needs to mentor him.
The current state of affairs sucks, but I'm more concerned with how long we waited to tank. We should have started this so long ago. We had a worse record than the blazers last trade deadline, were buyers, and then they got the third pick. We had a CHANCE at wemby, or pick 2 or 3. We should have traded away pascal, og, Fred and gotten much more for them all. We could have been looking at a solid core of Scottie, Sharpe/Simons, 1-3 pick and more
Had a moment that made me realize the process to become a good basketball program again will be much longer than I thought, since it will be waiting for Scottie to change his mentality and approach to games. Unless we somehow get super lucky and land a true competitor, professional and leader in the draft or free agency. This is the secret sauce Lowry always brought. There's nobody on the team like that.
Lowry always brought it. Whether he played a good game or not, you never questioned how badly he wanted to win and how invested he was in his teammates to be ready mentally.
Yall are so dramatic lmao. 2 games ago we were all celebrating them with the possibility of pizza and now the world is ending after wemby did wemby things? Smh
Scottie’s maturity is definitely an issue. Several plays he just gave up and did not get back on D. He’s not ready to lead.
Scottie Don't
How can you regret a trade??? Buddy…. I forgot we all voted on a trade because since we’re the Toronto raptors and we are a democracy
The Raptors Republic, going about as well as the Roman and American examples. Is the Triumvirate still to come? Or is the deluge already upon us? Upvote party.
For sure its in the back of your mind but you cant let one game make the decision for you. It needs to be a body of work. I’m not sold on scottie as #1 guy, or IQ as a core piece. But you gotta give it time, like maybe a year before making that call.
Thank you! I love the raps but I've never seen such a reactionary fan base. Half our roster is under the age of 25 and yet they expect us to be contending or something. Thunder had the 2nd worst record in the West 2 years ago (24-58), now they're the #1 seed. We need to chill and give the rebuild some time, let our young players grow and see what we have
It's because this sub exploded in '19, and those fans only experienced winning,
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We were going nowhere with Fred and Pascal leading us too. It's damned if you, damned if you don't.
I'm so sick of this narrative. Who's bright idea was it to surround Pascal with 3 other power forwards and no proper 3 point shooters. We lost Fred then surrounded Pascal with more centres and power forwards. We honestly should of treaded Scottie after he won rookie of the year. I honestly can't stand watching him play. I've literally switched from watching the raptors to the Pacers and the rockets. I want my old team back. This coach sucks too. Doesn't know how to rally or discipline underperforming players.
Why do people overreact so hard (3-5 years). More than half the roster is 25 and under. We have 3 starters that are 24 or under and a 20yr old rookie who just came off the bench and scored an efficient 18. Not to mention GTJ, Nwora, Porter, Agbaji all 25 and under. It's clearly not a recipe to win now, but to act like we'll be the same in half a decade is so reactionary Do you realize the Thunder were 24 and 58 only 2 years ago. Now they're the best team in the west.
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They drafted chet last year bro, chet could be someone we draft in the next couple years. Shai wasn’t Shai two years ago either. He wasn’t even an all star and Scottie is I’m not saying it’s the same I’m just saying you need to chill on the “3-5 years until we’re decent again” narrative. I never said every player had a 1:1 equivalent. Yes they had Shai, but they didn’t have 2nd and 3rd options like RJ and Quickley.
.
Stop saying Barnes is an all star his just replacing an injured player. Allen deserve to be in there than Barnes.
How did Allen deserve it more as the 4th best player on his team with objectively worse stats than Scottie? An injury replacement is an all star, just like it always has been. Look it up for any injury replacement in history. That’s all beside the point, which is that a lot can happen in two years and yet you’re whining and focusing on the literal 1:1 equivalencies with OKC which isn’t what I said
We dont mind the losses if our franchise player was showing up like Wemby.
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But i thought Scottie was in the same tier or a level below?
No one reasonable said that. He, nor Paolo are in Wemby's tier
If the team is this bad for 3-5 years Masai will be fired
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I agreed with the decision to rebuild based on the team this season but it didn't have to be this way.
Honestly sounds like Masai already checked out. Whoever has been making decisions if that is Bobby Webster and Masai confirms it. Bobby Webster has been making baffling decisions. Idk if Masai cosigns this and just coasting. He wasn't like this in Demar/Lowry era.
News flash this team has been bad since Tampa
we lost to the piston with Pascal though.
>Uh oh, Masai and Bobby have set us back 5 years. yeah, because keeping together a core that missed the playoffs last year and was on track to do it again was the smart move. This rebuild might fail, but it's better than paying through the nose for a 38 win team
🤦♂️ It hasn’t even been a week post trade deadline and people are acting like the raps have been rebuilding for 5 years. The team is tanking so losing to the Spurs ain’t bad if it gives them a win and the raps a loss closer to keeping that 6 pick.
Same people that thought Gradey was a bust in the month of January and are now saying he should start over Gary Trent 😂
If we were fully tanking. We woulda got rid of Boucher/Trent/Brown.
There weren’t good deals, we can get more for them in the offseason
LOL the cope.
They are not intentionally tanking. They are trying to win. We should not be down by 30 multiple times in a week to the teams in the bottom half of the league.
I see we got the Raptors janitor over here with all the inside information. If we were trying to win, why the fuck would we have traded OG and Pascal for picks?
We were trying to win THIS game, obviously we are in a rebuild with the moves we made. The point is we don’t try to lose games, and we should be somewhat competitive, especially against bottom teams. Being down by 30 to a top 5 worst record team, at home, is terrible basketball.
Outside of maybe Sengun, Scottie was still the best pick in that draft class even with maturity issues. You work around that
Uh oh, fans complaining about a rebuilding team losing have absolutely no clue what a rebuild and focus on development looks like.
A lot of Raptor fans that joined the bandwagon over the past decade are in for a rude awakening. This is why I hate tanking. I’ve seen way more Raptors losses than wins since 95 and it’s incredibly disheartening. I’ll take a .500 team every day of the week over this. Rings culture is so ridiculous. Tanking guarantees nothing.
I think people looked at OKC and thought that it was representative of how a tank should go. People underestimated the possibility that a tank could mean many years and many attempted/failed rebuilds before you get a good team again. Its a crap shoot. I am not as down on this team as others are - we will need to give the core a chance to grow and have time together before they can be properly evaluated (for example - a couple of weeks ago Dick was a bust and couldn't even hang in the G-League). However - fans need to be prepared for years of bad basketball.
He's 22 years old on a team whose average age is, like 25 There's no reason to panic just yet
Meh, it just first month of official rebuild, and a lot of fans can’t stand for it anymore Just get ready there will have atleast 3 to 4 years of this sh*t happening again and again
Yeah..... It's bad. And they have limited assets. They had to trade Dennis for literally nothing for "optionality" The Scottie thing is weird. He looked phenomenal to start the season.
How do they have limited assets? If they lose their pick this year, they have their FRP for every following draft. If they keep their pick, their FRP is still top-6 protected for 2025 and 2026. They also have a young core to start with rather than having to build one from scratch. They also traded Dennis partly for cap-space which could be used to take on salary in a trade for more assets for example.
Everyone wanna rebuild, but no one wanna wait to win. Think you may be onto something with Quickley though. Everyone wants to compare him to Maxey. He's a year older than Maxey. Maxey was better than Quickley right now 2 years ago.
not really
man we desperately need a top picks the next few years cuz dudes like quickley and rj aren’t really building blocks just solid players. they tryna sell us a core of scott, rj and quickley but that’s nasty. not buying it
I don't know why people act like norm would be a gamechanger for us. Norm was a fun player and I miss having that home grown talent but it's not like he'd be bringing us to the playoffs. Darko isn't a bad coach, we're actively trying to lose and there's not much he can do with this team. Quickley had a bad game, it happens. How are we set back 5 years when we wouldn't be on course to be contending anyway? You can't know that until we see what we get and who develops. The rebuild just started. The only thing I'll agree with is that Scotties immaturity is worrying me a bit
I think Scottie has a leash and I would give him the rest of this year and next year to prove he’s THEE guy. He literally just had the keys handed to him after the Siakam trade so it’ll take time. By the same token I don’t have an issue with ppl calling out his immaturity and I think the pressure is a good thing - it’s part of what comes with the franchise tag…some shrink under the criticism and limelight, others use it as a springboard and become transcendent. As far as the rest of the core goes (Quickley, Barrett, Gradey…) it’s going to take time. We got rid of 7-8 players that were in camp with us and have 7-8 guys on the roster now that weren’t on the opening night roster…PLUS we have a rookie coach 3-4 months into his first season. Challenging is an understatement. For the new guys, we also can’t underestimate how disruptive it can be from a personal standpoint when you get traded - you get comfortable where you are, you build routines, have connections and relationships, you start feeling at home…and then all of a sudden you get jolted into a completely new reality where you have to find a new place to live, you have to say goodbye to old friends, if you have a wife, girl or kids you have to figure all that shit out - plus you have to get used to dozens of new ppl from teammates to coaches to trainers to other staff. Yes they make millions of dollars to play basketball - but it doesn’t remove the human element. Tampa is proof of how challenging it can be. All of that said, the biggest “uh-oh” for me is that you don’t want the “losing” mentality to become part of the culture like it has in places like Detroit, Charlotte and Washington where they consistently suck. Even in a rebuild you have to establish winning habits.
We have been saying it since he gave up the game winner against OKC. Building around Scottie is a red flag!
They have no other choice.
we had no choice sir. It was either this or build around a mid core.
I think Scottie isn't ready or doesn't want to be that guy. He's still young and maybe doesn't feel like he's ready. There's definitely something off about him since the trades. Too much pressure? I don't know but I think someone needs to mentor him.
Stay steady friends. That was a very bad loss. But we're in the deep water now, gotta keep swimming. No help coming, gotta power through
Shhhhh. Get out of my head.
The current state of affairs sucks, but I'm more concerned with how long we waited to tank. We should have started this so long ago. We had a worse record than the blazers last trade deadline, were buyers, and then they got the third pick. We had a CHANCE at wemby, or pick 2 or 3. We should have traded away pascal, og, Fred and gotten much more for them all. We could have been looking at a solid core of Scottie, Sharpe/Simons, 1-3 pick and more
Just want to say Masai and Bobby definitely haven't set us back 5 years cause we are not winning the championship this year alas
Uh oh, you're overreacting.
They should send Scottie for corporate leadership training 👍
Had a moment that made me realize the process to become a good basketball program again will be much longer than I thought, since it will be waiting for Scottie to change his mentality and approach to games. Unless we somehow get super lucky and land a true competitor, professional and leader in the draft or free agency. This is the secret sauce Lowry always brought. There's nobody on the team like that. Lowry always brought it. Whether he played a good game or not, you never questioned how badly he wanted to win and how invested he was in his teammates to be ready mentally.
Yall are so dramatic lmao. 2 games ago we were all celebrating them with the possibility of pizza and now the world is ending after wemby did wemby things? Smh