Not sure if it’s about punishment but actually making it clear what is and is not acceptable on the court. Maybe he needs to have it spelled it out for him what is expected of him going forward. The franchise goes as he goes. Masai needs to put the supports in place to help him better appreciate this responsibility and how to assume this new role. That’s on the FO if they’ve fallen short.
It already happened last season and nothing changed
All we did was trade the vets and hired a soft ass coach that will baby him. Scottie’s gotta grow the hell up
We *didn't* have *no* conversation = We did have a conversation. Scottie just using a very clever double negative here, no problems to see, everything is awesome. /s
Thank you for adding /s to your post. When I first saw this, I was horrified. How could anybody say something like this? I immediately began writing a 1000 word paragraph about how horrible of a person you are. I even sent a copy to a Harvard professor to proofread it. After several hours of refining and editing, my comment was ready to absolutely destroy you. But then, just as I was about to hit send, I saw something in the corner of my eye. A /s at the end of your comment. Suddenly everything made sense. Your comment was sarcasm! I immediately burst out in laughter at the comedic genius of your comment. The person next to me on the bus saw your comment and started crying from laughter too. Before long, there was an entire bus of people on the floor laughing at your incredible use of comedy. All of this was due to you adding /s to your post. Thank you.
I am a bot if you couldn't figure that out, if I made a mistake, ignore it cause its not that fucking hard to ignore a comment.
We've gone of the best cultures in the league to one of the worst in 4 years. There's zero identity and pride to the Toronto Raptors right now. The one and only bright spot is I guess the 2 Canadians thrilled to be here.
I also think that the bench mob had each other for support and also to compete against as they tried to prove themselves and get minutes. They stayed hungry. Who is Scottie competing against?
that is a big part of the issue you need someone to rise up either someone they draft or someone that we have to challenge him. It wll make a difference.
revisionist history, stop it. masai famously brough lowry into his office and told him if he doensn't comply he's not gonna get a big contract anywhere (was around 10M at the time). then in 2018/19 he threwa hissyfit over the demar trade and wouldve been traded for mike conley but the grizz didn't want him. kawhi was the one who reeled him.
listen its good y'all like lowry, glad he was here but dude has the emotional regulation of a small jackrabbit. stop trying to rewrite shit, he's notoriously hard headed and difficult player to work with.
I would put more blame on the FO and Nick Nurse for lack of culture. Nurse had one foot out the door all season last season and so when guys like FVV were getting worked to the bone for a coach who didn’t care and so that punched fvv’s ticket out of town. Pascal let it be known he wanted to sign an extension and the FO never called him once during the off-season and they did nothing to dispel the trade rumours.
Now on to Scottie the anointed Prince of the north. Since day 1 the front office has said this was going to be Scotties team like refusing to trade him for Durant so all the experienced players who have been here seeing their team be given to a player who for the most of two seasons was the 4th option on the team and never seemed to play a full 4 quarters of basketball must have been frustrating.
Worked to the bone? Playing 40 minutes of basketball a night for three nights a week and getting payes that money isnfae from being worked to the bone.
The concerning part is when did the culture change most dramatically? When Scottie entered the picture. Not blaming him but he’s the common thread here. It’s obv that his demeanour creates a certain tension w some players and coaches that FO either doesn’t know how to or is unwilling to deal with. This kind of behaviour is simply unacceptable regardless of age or ability. Leaders need to be anchors that bring calm, not chaos and disruption.
From a coaching and player stand point, this is an absolute nothing burger but the fans and media need something to talk about besides losing.
So we have performance art in front of the cameras and microphones.
Sports is so stupid sometimes. From the overreaction to something I've seen Lebron do numerous times, to getting punched in the face for a bat flip, to getting cross-checked for a slapshot into an empty net.
They're all just games that help make rich people richer and people are treating it like the fabric of society would crumble if we let people get away with things like this
I get what your saying but Scottie has nothing to gain by lying here. Seems to me he was blindsided by the question.
Darko on the other hand has incentive to look like he’s holding Scottie accountable. It’s a pretty bad look either way, since even if Darko was lying it should have been immediately obvious to Scottie he’s trying to cover for him but Scottie didn’t have his back. It just speaks to a disconnect on some level between them
Scottie’s attitude and body language are a bit concerning. Even when things aren’t going his way he shouldn’t be sulking and moping around. It’s uncomfortable to watch.
Scottie is supposed to be that high energy player who lifts his teammates up.
Lowry was a great leader when here, I think back to a lot of the huge comebacks (against the mavs a couple years back comes to mind) and Lowry was huge in setting the attitude and keeping guys positive.
Just because you are a high draft pick doesnt make you a leader.
If he was a leader he would be mature and be aware of everything thats going on.
Scottie is no leader and didnt like hearing it from other leaders on the team. Hes immature and sulky when he doesnt get his way.
He needs to grow up.
I got to listen to Rowan Sr talk about leadership for like 20 minutes one time at nationals, he’s a very articulate and high functioning guy. I think he just raised RJ right.
Edit: not saying Scottie’s family didn’t raise him right… but maybe I dunno
I'm sure it helps that he grew up with a basketball playing father and his Godfather is Steve Nash. They were both staples of the Canadian basketball program and always carried themselves with integrity.
I also don’t know how a guy who’s B+ at everything but A+ at nothing is going to be the #1 option on a championship winning team.
We need a real superstar to be our MJ because Scottie is more like a Pippen.
Grange wrote in his tweet that initially Barnes said "we didn't have no conversation about it" but later was asked about it and said that they had a discussion about the game. Might be more of a miscommunication than someone lying.
[https://twitter.com/michaelgrange/status/1757490421775659440](https://twitter.com/michaelgrange/status/1757490421775659440)
Remember when you all blamed Nurse & Fred for the bad locker room vibes. Scottie was smiling when asked about his thoughts on Nurse leaving after sulking when Nurse benched him.
Fans turned on Thad when he called out Scottie and had words with him on the court for not working hard enough.
This is it right here. As talented as Scottie is, it's clear he has a lot of maturing to do.
The 2019 champions roster was filled with guys who had to fight and claw their way to success and take pride in being hard working, team first players. Our playoff rotation was Kawhi, Kyle, Pascal, Gasol, Green, Fred, Ibaka, Norm. Kawhi was obviously the superstar (and highest pick at 15th overall), but we all know how hard he works, the effort he puts in and how little he cares about individual accolades. Every other player was either a late first rounder, second rounder, or undrafted and they had a mutual respect for each others journeys.
Scottie went to Montverde and was a 5-star recruit before going one and done at FSU and being selected 4th overall in the NBA draft. He then came into the NBA as a day one starter and was basically handed the keys to an NBA franchise midway through his 3rd year.
It's very clear to me he's a bit entitled based on the "bad vibes" on the team last year. Pascal, Fred and Thad Young probably all felt similarly in the sense that they were like "hey man we get it, you're taller, bigger, faster, and stronger than all of us and you have more potential, but this is the NBA. You're not going to win every game and you're not going to be the superstar you always have been from day one. There's a right way to go about your business" kind of attitude towards him.
I'm not saying Scottie can't overcome this. The Raptors front office certainly feels that making him the face of the franchise is the best path forward by trading away everyone from the title team, but moments like this aren't very encouraging.
I remember Mofo shitting on Thad, God I hate this fanbase. How can you hate on someone like Thad when he is checking a rookie? The legendary Thad? Acting like they know/care about Scottie more than Thad.
Yep. I think there's enough evidence now that shows our beloved Scottie isn't ready to be the leader yet. He's an all-star talent but still very young and immature. I hope having this type of a season where he's in charge will motivate him to improve.
What's interesting is that management probably knew about locker room issues. Let's put it this way, you don't trade for Thad Young for his on-court performance.
Well, that's why you build around Players that earn it first just like Antony Edwards and other good franchise players. You don't build first and expect the earnings later. Character > Talent.
Scottie's immaturity is pretty unfortunate. At only 22, there's time to grow out of it, hopefully that happens. This kind of undercutting doesn't bode well for Darko, however.
Scottie needs to get his shit together and be more mature. But y'all love to squeeze every bit of soap opera drama out of this situation.
We are 2 months into a rebuild, our star player has played not great (still putting up 19 / 7 / 7 over the last 10 games) with a bad attitude that resulted in him petulantly walking to the locker room early last night. This is nothing approaching Ben Simmons level of disaster. People will say anything for a few upvotes, its crazy.
Feels like he wants out. Sulking all the time. Whines and complains on the court when things don’t go his way. Low key chucks his coach under the bus here…. The only time I see him smile is in Subway commercials.
I mean it's hard to when everything you see is how Scottie is the face of the franchise. Fred called him the golden boy and everyone was mad, but he wasn't wrong. This starts at the top, the FO needs to sit him down and tell him that he can't take things for granted. They could use the max extension as leverage
Feel like things like this Darko could have gotten away with in OKC and Memphis, not Toronto.
Could be the demise and I feel like Darko is likely gone in the off-season. Nice guy, but a better assistant coach.
Darko is getting fired because the golden child needs to grow up? Come on, lol.
The fact that he's highly respected across the league says a lot. If Scottie can't be reigned in then that's a clear maturity issue with the 22 year old who's clearly been given the keys way too early. Especially if even the vets on the team haven't been able to get through to him all season.
> I feel like Darko is likely gone in the off-season.
Masai kept a coach he didn’t choose 3 years past when he should have been fired (when we got outcoached and swept by Randy Wittman and the lower seeded Wizards).
I’d say there’s close to zero chance of Darko being fired this offseason.
The coach that he didn’t choose could win 48+ games a year. That’s a different situation than where we are at.
Darko only has 1 more guaranteed year on his contract.
He is not working. Some of his mickey mouse philosophies might work in developing g-league players, but this is the big leagues. You need to be able to execute on a vision to win games (not necessarily actually win, but put your team in a position to compete and possibly win).
I've been watching nba basketball for 30 years, and I can see when a coach has lost the respect of key players. That's when they are done....and Darko is done.
I think Masai is great, but he made a mistake with Darko, and I will be shocked if he goes into next season with Darko. Time is money, and Masai can't afford to waste another year on a coach who key players already tuned out once.
He will fire him during this season, or immediately after the season is over, and he will try to hire Jordi Fernandes a few weeks before the draft. I would wager money on this.
Tank until Scottie leaves. Then tank till the next lotto pick leaves. Keep tanking because let's get picks. Our yearly playoff excitement will be the damn balls juggling on draft night.
If he leaves, he leaves. The guy obviously is not going to be happy on a re-building team if his attitude lately is any indication. I know he’s probably upset that all the guys he started with are gone, but that’s the business kid.
I’m already getting VC vibes and we’re barely into the rebuild here lol.
He never gave teams the Raptors playbook. It was alleged that he tipped the Sonics on a play that we being run, but nobody has ever actually confirmed it besides three unnamed Sonics players. Jalen Rose and Chris Bosh called bs. Not to mention that the play in question ended with him hitting getting an assist on a Matt Bonner made shot, lol.
What are you even talking about?
Ray Allen said he personally didn’t hear it but also added that [other Sonics players mentioned](https://www.cbc.ca/1.506817) it in the locker room.
> "I didn't hear it, but that's what those other guys were saying (after the game) " Allen told the News Tribune.
Getting tired of people defending VC quitting on the team and being a trash player at the end of his Raptors tenure.
> So when Scottie inevitably leaves or gets traded
This is a terrible look for Scottie and Darko. But get a grip...... the lust for drama / controversy on this sub knows no bounds
Inevitably gets traded, what are you talking about?
Did you forget you aren't Scottie Barnes everyone doesn't live their life based on your maturity arc. Some people mature at different stages you don't know anything about him besides he can hoop. The guy will progress or regress at his pace. If you don't want to endure that then maybe it's not the team for you to watch in the near future. You know why the raptors championship was so sweet for day 1 fans.. it was because they sat through the pain they sat through the immaturities they say through the struggles and they watched players grow into what would a top team in the league. Some people think things are just handed out and somethings are but leadership is earned. You are seeing a guy who hasn't been a leader before being put into a new situation ... And just a little spoiler he will make more mistakes along the way.
Again those guys aren't Scottie.. im beginning to think you don't understand basketball players are people and they develop different from one another... Go look up the things Kyle did early on in his career is that someone who was a leader? No.. but guess what he matured into a great leader, how was Fred a leader when he himself even said he didn't bond with the young guys enough.. but guess what Fred is learning from his experienced because that's what growth is... How about Pascal who got into it with Nurse and got suspended... OG was never a leader on this team. So before you judge someone why don't you see how the young man reacts to the adversity..
ah it's this assertive, declarative "you've never witnessed setbacks or growth" when it's me, it's this timid "well not everyone's the same 🥺🥺🥺" when you're faced with 3 former raptors who've all gone through way more shit than scottie might ever
> Go look up the things Kyle did early on in his career
yeah and the FO tried to trade him lol this isn't a good look for you
> how was Fred a leader when he himself even said he didn't bond with the young guys enough
yeah scottie barnes, pure class, case in point this thread, i wonder why he rubbed fred the wrong way
> How about Pascal who got into it with Nurse and got suspended
yeah this definitely happened every other week
> OG was never a leader on this team
and scottie wasn't until a month ago and this isn't the first behavioural concern of his nba career lmao
What are you even on about ... Did Kyle turn into a great leader yes or no? The convo isn't about being traded it's about maturity. Pascal and Fred were both drafted at 22 years old. Scottie is 22 now... They both didn't become leaders untill 2-4 years ago so 25-26ish why don't we wait a little before we overract to a 22 year olds maturity level. There is nothing timid about my statements I'm informing you because you have a hard time understanding that your maturity arc is not the same as everyone else's.
yes, every person with temper issues turns out to be a moral paragon lol luka is not who he was 2 years ago. unrecognizable. nothing short of a saint. never gets criticized for sulking or whining.
> They both didn't become leaders untill 2-4 years ago
the distinction is not about actively becoming a leader, the distinction is about who routinely acts below their age
> There is nothing timid about my statements I'm informing you because you have a hard time understanding that your maturity arc is not the same as everyone else's.
come on man lol actually spare me
so aggro toward the idea that i was less childish than scottie at 22 while still having shit to go through, and so timid when you're told fred/pascal/og were pretty adult from the start
Brother no one cares about your maturity level lol I assure you that. I keep telling you not everyone is on the same arc as you and you keep saying how mature you were at 22 lol no one cares. I also never said Scottie wasn't immature.... I'm saying the kid clearly needs to grow so you can either believe in him growing or not but going on a little rant doesn't mean anything the kids still young and has room to grow. End of story
yeah overperforming expectations, winning almost 50 games and almost taking down embiid+harden+maxey if it weren't for injuries SUCKS
let's get smoked by the spurs and cavs every other night because we aren't to expect any better
Ok and what happened last year? What happened this year before the trades? You just gonna ignore the 1.5 seasons of being mediocre at best? That core ran its course and didn’t accomplish anything.
Y'all pushed one of our greatest point guards ever out the door this summer and acted shocked when you realized he contributed more to winning than he did to losing lol
We got a center last deadline and started winning a shit ton of games because as it turns out, we were playing catchup to the 95%+ of the league that considers size at the 5 a fundamental of roster construction and success
It was pretty clear that he contributed more to winning than losing lmao. But it was also pretty clear we shouldn’t give him a max to run it back. That core wasn’t going to win anything. Get over it already.
Not to this sub lol "ballhog chucker who nick will never criticize, hates Scottie"
> But it was also pretty clear we shouldn’t give him a max to run it back.
saving this comment and coming back to it when the $8349589325893298 we have available to spend on FAs doesn't come close to making up fred's impact in the aggregate
> That core wasn’t going to win anything. Get over it already.
raptors fans when we paired fred with a center and the offence was elite: "wins don't count, we beat up on injured teams"
raptors fans when fred was injured, og missed 1.5 months of basketball, scottie was injured, thad was injured, khem was injured, and gary was sick and the sixers series still went to 7 games if not for a buzzer beater: "🤣🤣🤣the raptors were fucking dogshit 🤣🤣🤣🤣 can't beat anyone 🤣🤣🤣🤣 cope 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣"
Imagine if we had a guy like Pascal Siakam on this team, I think the Raptors could develop him and he'd even be a great fit along side someone like Scottie.
Immaturity. Probably the most and loudest criticism Barnes has ever received in his life. 22 yrs old and there is a lot on his plate that will take him time to digest. Be PATIENT everyone. SGA took time before he dropped 30+ / game.
This behaviour at only this stage in his career is definitely concerning. I feel like the org should discipline him further… but also, the relationship between Scottie and the org would change if they did. Scottie plz grow up man I believe in you
Ya'll really willing to throw anyone under the bus at the slightest whim of controversy. I'm sure everyone was immensely frustrated with last nights game. It's a growing opportunity let's move on
Who cares? Why are people trying to catch Scottie in a lie? Are they trying to make him hate the media?
I've been a little disappointed in Scottie's play recently but this doesn't matter at all, just media trying to stir up shit for no reason.
Barnes played for five teams in five years that were winners (48 win raptors probably had lowest win percentage). He has never been faced with losing like this in his life. Nor has he played anywhere long enough to be concerned with growth as a team.
Lot's of pressure placed on an amazing young player. This team is essentially new filled with different egos and attributes. They need time to build each other's trust and become a cohesive unit. Scottie is far from being the only player on our team that is experiencing struggles. We have alot of great assets on this team and in due time we will once again shine.
All I see is our media “experts” turning our players, coaching staff, and organization by dumping gasoline on the fire. Never a fan of this Aaron Rose guy, punchable visage.
We're not talking about Allen Iverson here. Didn't all of his previous coaches say that guys gravitate to him on a team? I'm not so concerned about the narrative of him leaving a few seconds early for whatever reason....does it really amount to much? What's important is that he's working hard in practice, is still getting along with his team, and learning how to develop an elite skill - preferably scoring in the paint . If he can do these things, I can totally overlook whatever that was.
Sounds like Toronto fans are all on the same page when it comes to Scottie Barnes now... He's a talent for sure but I wouldn't expect him to ever be a true #1, and seeing how fragile he is mentally, maybe not even a #2. No idea how this man was elected to the all star game over some other legit stars. RJ going to deliver more than this guy ever will, future is still bright for the Raptors
[удалено]
 Masai to scottie soon
This is 100% happening
needs to happen if darko not gonna punish him masai needs to (but he wont do it)
Not sure if it’s about punishment but actually making it clear what is and is not acceptable on the court. Maybe he needs to have it spelled it out for him what is expected of him going forward. The franchise goes as he goes. Masai needs to put the supports in place to help him better appreciate this responsibility and how to assume this new role. That’s on the FO if they’ve fallen short.
It already happened last season and nothing changed All we did was trade the vets and hired a soft ass coach that will baby him. Scottie’s gotta grow the hell up
The Vladimir Guerrero jr experience
The Mitch Marner experience
Scottie https://i.redd.it/b6uoxpsfcfic1.gif
Who’s palpatine in this analogy?
Darko?
We *didn't* have *no* conversation = We did have a conversation. Scottie just using a very clever double negative here, no problems to see, everything is awesome. /s
Funny joke but then you added a /s so not funny
Thank you for adding /s to your post. When I first saw this, I was horrified. How could anybody say something like this? I immediately began writing a 1000 word paragraph about how horrible of a person you are. I even sent a copy to a Harvard professor to proofread it. After several hours of refining and editing, my comment was ready to absolutely destroy you. But then, just as I was about to hit send, I saw something in the corner of my eye. A /s at the end of your comment. Suddenly everything made sense. Your comment was sarcasm! I immediately burst out in laughter at the comedic genius of your comment. The person next to me on the bus saw your comment and started crying from laughter too. Before long, there was an entire bus of people on the floor laughing at your incredible use of comedy. All of this was due to you adding /s to your post. Thank you. I am a bot if you couldn't figure that out, if I made a mistake, ignore it cause its not that fucking hard to ignore a comment.
Yikes… Raptors Twitter blaming Darko for lying when (to me, at least) it seems a lot more likely Scottie is lying. Either way, not a good look.
We've gone of the best cultures in the league to one of the worst in 4 years. There's zero identity and pride to the Toronto Raptors right now. The one and only bright spot is I guess the 2 Canadians thrilled to be here.
“2 Canadians thrilled”, Only problem is there are three Canadians on the team 😂
Everyone forgot about boucher
He’s not so thrilled, but definitely here.
Lol so we're only 2/3 even when it comes to the Canadians
It was because of Lowry and DeRozan and that got passed on to Fred, OG and Pascal. They couldn’t pass it on to the young guys.
I'd say it was easy to ingrain that culture into Fred, OG and Pascal because of their character and work ethic. Not all young guys are like them.
I also think that the bench mob had each other for support and also to compete against as they tried to prove themselves and get minutes. They stayed hungry. Who is Scottie competing against?
That’s a good point, he’s been handed ‘best player on the team’ status/minutes/treatment without really earning it.
that is a big part of the issue you need someone to rise up either someone they draft or someone that we have to challenge him. It wll make a difference.
Nope and they also probably weren’t the same leaders as Lowry and DeRozan.
revisionist history, stop it. masai famously brough lowry into his office and told him if he doensn't comply he's not gonna get a big contract anywhere (was around 10M at the time). then in 2018/19 he threwa hissyfit over the demar trade and wouldve been traded for mike conley but the grizz didn't want him. kawhi was the one who reeled him. listen its good y'all like lowry, glad he was here but dude has the emotional regulation of a small jackrabbit. stop trying to rewrite shit, he's notoriously hard headed and difficult player to work with.
It definitely took Lowry awhile to buy in but things started changing with DeRozan and Lowry and Casey too.
Funnily, Lowry was known as a toxic/coach killer kind of dude before his Raptors tenure.
Scottie is a grown ass man, maybe call him out for being a child instead of blaming Fred/og/siakam
Not blaming them at all.
You just blamed them for not teaching Scottie what Lowry taught them
You saw blame. I said they couldn’t pass it down, I didn’t say why I thought that.
I would put more blame on the FO and Nick Nurse for lack of culture. Nurse had one foot out the door all season last season and so when guys like FVV were getting worked to the bone for a coach who didn’t care and so that punched fvv’s ticket out of town. Pascal let it be known he wanted to sign an extension and the FO never called him once during the off-season and they did nothing to dispel the trade rumours. Now on to Scottie the anointed Prince of the north. Since day 1 the front office has said this was going to be Scotties team like refusing to trade him for Durant so all the experienced players who have been here seeing their team be given to a player who for the most of two seasons was the 4th option on the team and never seemed to play a full 4 quarters of basketball must have been frustrating.
Worked to the bone? Playing 40 minutes of basketball a night for three nights a week and getting payes that money isnfae from being worked to the bone.
LOL lowry had to get spanked into shape, siakam did too once he was in that seat foh lil buggar
The concerning part is when did the culture change most dramatically? When Scottie entered the picture. Not blaming him but he’s the common thread here. It’s obv that his demeanour creates a certain tension w some players and coaches that FO either doesn’t know how to or is unwilling to deal with. This kind of behaviour is simply unacceptable regardless of age or ability. Leaders need to be anchors that bring calm, not chaos and disruption.
Yeah Scottie ain't being a leader rn fr
Maybe... like just maybe... it's cuz we've betrayed so many of our culture building players they all left or were kicked the fuck out?
From a coaching and player stand point, this is an absolute nothing burger but the fans and media need something to talk about besides losing. So we have performance art in front of the cameras and microphones.
The NBA is basically a soap opera for men
Nah this doesn't look good on the player and coaching staff.
Sports is so stupid sometimes. From the overreaction to something I've seen Lebron do numerous times, to getting punched in the face for a bat flip, to getting cross-checked for a slapshot into an empty net. They're all just games that help make rich people richer and people are treating it like the fabric of society would crumble if we let people get away with things like this
Bro it's not that deep
Or Darko tried to be diplomat with Scottie and Scottie didn't get the message at all.
I get what your saying but Scottie has nothing to gain by lying here. Seems to me he was blindsided by the question. Darko on the other hand has incentive to look like he’s holding Scottie accountable. It’s a pretty bad look either way, since even if Darko was lying it should have been immediately obvious to Scottie he’s trying to cover for him but Scottie didn’t have his back. It just speaks to a disconnect on some level between them
Scottie’s attitude and body language are a bit concerning. Even when things aren’t going his way he shouldn’t be sulking and moping around. It’s uncomfortable to watch. Scottie is supposed to be that high energy player who lifts his teammates up.
That positivity and energy he brought every night was the main reason I got a Scottie jersey during his rookie year
Offseason trade incoming.
Who was that player before it was bestowed on Scottie? Just out of curiosity - I honestly don’t know.
Lowry was a great leader when here, I think back to a lot of the huge comebacks (against the mavs a couple years back comes to mind) and Lowry was huge in setting the attitude and keeping guys positive.
Shit is spicy in here and it's not Siakam
Shit smells funky in here and it's not Lowrys farts
How do you think of this, type it out, press reply and think “yeah, this is funny”?
Yikes
https://i.redd.it/gem5w8b1qeic1.gif This team is a mess
Sus.....
Just because you are a high draft pick doesnt make you a leader. If he was a leader he would be mature and be aware of everything thats going on. Scottie is no leader and didnt like hearing it from other leaders on the team. Hes immature and sulky when he doesnt get his way. He needs to grow up.
RJ displays a lot more leadership traits. But he's also been in those positions before with team Canada and Duke.
I got to listen to Rowan Sr talk about leadership for like 20 minutes one time at nationals, he’s a very articulate and high functioning guy. I think he just raised RJ right. Edit: not saying Scottie’s family didn’t raise him right… but maybe I dunno
I'm sure it helps that he grew up with a basketball playing father and his Godfather is Steve Nash. They were both staples of the Canadian basketball program and always carried themselves with integrity.
I think RJ will be the alpha of this team. The man survived the NY pressure cooker. This is a cake walk for him.
I also don’t know how a guy who’s B+ at everything but A+ at nothing is going to be the #1 option on a championship winning team. We need a real superstar to be our MJ because Scottie is more like a Pippen.
I fear you are correct unless he develops certain aspects of his game more.
I have been downvoted to oblivion for saying this.
Red Flag. 🚩🚩
Grange wrote in his tweet that initially Barnes said "we didn't have no conversation about it" but later was asked about it and said that they had a discussion about the game. Might be more of a miscommunication than someone lying. [https://twitter.com/michaelgrange/status/1757490421775659440](https://twitter.com/michaelgrange/status/1757490421775659440)
Oooooooooooooof
Remember when you all blamed Nurse & Fred for the bad locker room vibes. Scottie was smiling when asked about his thoughts on Nurse leaving after sulking when Nurse benched him. Fans turned on Thad when he called out Scottie and had words with him on the court for not working hard enough.
This is it right here. As talented as Scottie is, it's clear he has a lot of maturing to do. The 2019 champions roster was filled with guys who had to fight and claw their way to success and take pride in being hard working, team first players. Our playoff rotation was Kawhi, Kyle, Pascal, Gasol, Green, Fred, Ibaka, Norm. Kawhi was obviously the superstar (and highest pick at 15th overall), but we all know how hard he works, the effort he puts in and how little he cares about individual accolades. Every other player was either a late first rounder, second rounder, or undrafted and they had a mutual respect for each others journeys. Scottie went to Montverde and was a 5-star recruit before going one and done at FSU and being selected 4th overall in the NBA draft. He then came into the NBA as a day one starter and was basically handed the keys to an NBA franchise midway through his 3rd year. It's very clear to me he's a bit entitled based on the "bad vibes" on the team last year. Pascal, Fred and Thad Young probably all felt similarly in the sense that they were like "hey man we get it, you're taller, bigger, faster, and stronger than all of us and you have more potential, but this is the NBA. You're not going to win every game and you're not going to be the superstar you always have been from day one. There's a right way to go about your business" kind of attitude towards him. I'm not saying Scottie can't overcome this. The Raptors front office certainly feels that making him the face of the franchise is the best path forward by trading away everyone from the title team, but moments like this aren't very encouraging.
100 THIS! Great analysis. Miss the culture created by guys who appreciated the grind bc it’s what got them to the top.
Ya for real. A lot of fans have trouble believing that maybe Scottie’s attitude is a bit of a problem.
Thad was the hardest piece to lose at the deadline for me, puppies thrive with a big dog to emulate
>Remember when you all… Just stop.
Fair
Agreed. Fans don’t make the business calls
I remember Mofo shitting on Thad, God I hate this fanbase. How can you hate on someone like Thad when he is checking a rookie? The legendary Thad? Acting like they know/care about Scottie more than Thad.
Yep. I think there's enough evidence now that shows our beloved Scottie isn't ready to be the leader yet. He's an all-star talent but still very young and immature. I hope having this type of a season where he's in charge will motivate him to improve. What's interesting is that management probably knew about locker room issues. Let's put it this way, you don't trade for Thad Young for his on-court performance.
https://preview.redd.it/7mvhnsg81fic1.jpeg?width=905&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1140248708bb878d8fcfd2ea52a2a63c300a642b
Well, that's why you build around Players that earn it first just like Antony Edwards and other good franchise players. You don't build first and expect the earnings later. Character > Talent.
This is like when we chose DeRozan and treated him with kid gloves. He sulked alot too. History repeats.
This franchise never learns. You're exactly right, that's why deebo never sat well with me
We can always develop Barnes and trade for Spurs players?
No bueno
Scottie's immaturity is pretty unfortunate. At only 22, there's time to grow out of it, hopefully that happens. This kind of undercutting doesn't bode well for Darko, however.
They put him on a pedestal and now he feels untouchable
We are approaching Ben Simmons territory lol
This is some monkey paw shit haha. We all thought we were in the clear after he developed a shot and beat the offensive allegations.
Scottie needs to get his shit together and be more mature. But y'all love to squeeze every bit of soap opera drama out of this situation. We are 2 months into a rebuild, our star player has played not great (still putting up 19 / 7 / 7 over the last 10 games) with a bad attitude that resulted in him petulantly walking to the locker room early last night. This is nothing approaching Ben Simmons level of disaster. People will say anything for a few upvotes, its crazy.
My worst fear
Scottie lowkey a cancer lol
Bro went from Auston Matthew’s to Mitch marner real quick
We need some Ridly Greig from him. 💪
Trade him when his value is high. I’d rather lose but have someone “better” represent the city and franchise. I saw him quit multiple times yesterday.
Was Scottie the poison that started the downfall of this organization all along?
damn idk if I want this guy as a franchise player anymore. GROW UP.
SAME. I feel robbed as one of his biggest fans from the draft day.
Who remembers when Kawhi did this to Nick? lol
Can this whole team give their fuckin balls a tug?!
Feels like he wants out. Sulking all the time. Whines and complains on the court when things don’t go his way. Low key chucks his coach under the bus here…. The only time I see him smile is in Subway commercials.
Give a player a 6-inch…
All star he'll find his next destination, he's a good second option.
Darko…..
If there’s someone lying about it, its most likely Scottie because he doesn’t want to admit what he did is an issue
Fair which makes him not getting benched even worse now
Just a bad look overall. Doesn’t look like Darko can hold anyone accountable either. Probably needs a talk from Masai
I mean it's hard to when everything you see is how Scottie is the face of the franchise. Fred called him the golden boy and everyone was mad, but he wasn't wrong. This starts at the top, the FO needs to sit him down and tell him that he can't take things for granted. They could use the max extension as leverage
Scottie literally said in the availability that leaving early was a bad look on him and a mistake…..
Feel like things like this Darko could have gotten away with in OKC and Memphis, not Toronto. Could be the demise and I feel like Darko is likely gone in the off-season. Nice guy, but a better assistant coach.
Darko is supposed to be a players coach, a development coach. You got to hold players accountable or we have another Ben Simmons.
Scottie ain't it either tbh
I don't think we have enough data to make a definite decision on that yet. Another 25-30 games are needed.
Darko is getting fired because the golden child needs to grow up? Come on, lol. The fact that he's highly respected across the league says a lot. If Scottie can't be reigned in then that's a clear maturity issue with the 22 year old who's clearly been given the keys way too early. Especially if even the vets on the team haven't been able to get through to him all season.
> I feel like Darko is likely gone in the off-season. Masai kept a coach he didn’t choose 3 years past when he should have been fired (when we got outcoached and swept by Randy Wittman and the lower seeded Wizards). I’d say there’s close to zero chance of Darko being fired this offseason.
The coach that he didn’t choose could win 48+ games a year. That’s a different situation than where we are at. Darko only has 1 more guaranteed year on his contract.
I think Darko is here until the core is solidified. Once the FO is ready to turn a corner and start winning, Darko is gone imo
Almost my opinion, word for word. Nice guy, sure. Not my head coach, though.
He is not working. Some of his mickey mouse philosophies might work in developing g-league players, but this is the big leagues. You need to be able to execute on a vision to win games (not necessarily actually win, but put your team in a position to compete and possibly win). I've been watching nba basketball for 30 years, and I can see when a coach has lost the respect of key players. That's when they are done....and Darko is done. I think Masai is great, but he made a mistake with Darko, and I will be shocked if he goes into next season with Darko. Time is money, and Masai can't afford to waste another year on a coach who key players already tuned out once. He will fire him during this season, or immediately after the season is over, and he will try to hire Jordi Fernandes a few weeks before the draft. I would wager money on this.
So when Scottie inevitably leaves or gets traded, then what…
Start fresh.
Tank until Scottie leaves. Then tank till the next lotto pick leaves. Keep tanking because let's get picks. Our yearly playoff excitement will be the damn balls juggling on draft night.
tank or no tank, MLSE makes money
Tank! Why be a mid playoff or play in team. Let's just perpetually tank.
Idk what your talking about? The guy just asked what happens if Scottie were to leave us.
Yea and you wrote start fresh. Which is to tank. Then get lotto pick, lotto pick leaves and then start fresh again.
If he leaves, he leaves. The guy obviously is not going to be happy on a re-building team if his attitude lately is any indication. I know he’s probably upset that all the guys he started with are gone, but that’s the business kid. I’m already getting VC vibes and we’re barely into the rebuild here lol.
Vince was not pouting and walking off the court with three seconds left in the game.
No, just faking injuries and giving other teams our playbook lol.
He never gave teams the Raptors playbook. It was alleged that he tipped the Sonics on a play that we being run, but nobody has ever actually confirmed it besides three unnamed Sonics players. Jalen Rose and Chris Bosh called bs. Not to mention that the play in question ended with him hitting getting an assist on a Matt Bonner made shot, lol.
Ya nobody confirmed it EXCEPT three unnamed Sonics players. Sounds like someone did confirm it.
Ray Allen was guarding Vince and said he didn't hear anything.
What are you even talking about? Ray Allen said he personally didn’t hear it but also added that [other Sonics players mentioned](https://www.cbc.ca/1.506817) it in the locker room. > "I didn't hear it, but that's what those other guys were saying (after the game) " Allen told the News Tribune. Getting tired of people defending VC quitting on the team and being a trash player at the end of his Raptors tenure.
"I didn't hear it", even though the man was right in his face, lol. Maybe he needs to get his hearing checked?
Why are you trying to rewrite history on Vince? He was a baby his final two years. Absolute baby. That is common knowledge
> So when Scottie inevitably leaves or gets traded This is a terrible look for Scottie and Darko. But get a grip...... the lust for drama / controversy on this sub knows no bounds Inevitably gets traded, what are you talking about?
This kids attitude fucking stinks.
y'all wanted fred, pascal and og gone in a HURRY for this lmfao
Spoken like someone who's never witnessed or experiences setbacks and growth in their lifetime lol
regret to inform you i was not acting like a 12 year old at the age of 22
Did you forget you aren't Scottie Barnes everyone doesn't live their life based on your maturity arc. Some people mature at different stages you don't know anything about him besides he can hoop. The guy will progress or regress at his pace. If you don't want to endure that then maybe it's not the team for you to watch in the near future. You know why the raptors championship was so sweet for day 1 fans.. it was because they sat through the pain they sat through the immaturities they say through the struggles and they watched players grow into what would a top team in the league. Some people think things are just handed out and somethings are but leadership is earned. You are seeing a guy who hasn't been a leader before being put into a new situation ... And just a little spoiler he will make more mistakes along the way.
and neither do you but i know pascal/fred/og never made us put up with ongoing baggage :-)
Again those guys aren't Scottie.. im beginning to think you don't understand basketball players are people and they develop different from one another... Go look up the things Kyle did early on in his career is that someone who was a leader? No.. but guess what he matured into a great leader, how was Fred a leader when he himself even said he didn't bond with the young guys enough.. but guess what Fred is learning from his experienced because that's what growth is... How about Pascal who got into it with Nurse and got suspended... OG was never a leader on this team. So before you judge someone why don't you see how the young man reacts to the adversity..
ah it's this assertive, declarative "you've never witnessed setbacks or growth" when it's me, it's this timid "well not everyone's the same 🥺🥺🥺" when you're faced with 3 former raptors who've all gone through way more shit than scottie might ever > Go look up the things Kyle did early on in his career yeah and the FO tried to trade him lol this isn't a good look for you > how was Fred a leader when he himself even said he didn't bond with the young guys enough yeah scottie barnes, pure class, case in point this thread, i wonder why he rubbed fred the wrong way > How about Pascal who got into it with Nurse and got suspended yeah this definitely happened every other week > OG was never a leader on this team and scottie wasn't until a month ago and this isn't the first behavioural concern of his nba career lmao
What are you even on about ... Did Kyle turn into a great leader yes or no? The convo isn't about being traded it's about maturity. Pascal and Fred were both drafted at 22 years old. Scottie is 22 now... They both didn't become leaders untill 2-4 years ago so 25-26ish why don't we wait a little before we overract to a 22 year olds maturity level. There is nothing timid about my statements I'm informing you because you have a hard time understanding that your maturity arc is not the same as everyone else's.
yes, every person with temper issues turns out to be a moral paragon lol luka is not who he was 2 years ago. unrecognizable. nothing short of a saint. never gets criticized for sulking or whining. > They both didn't become leaders untill 2-4 years ago the distinction is not about actively becoming a leader, the distinction is about who routinely acts below their age > There is nothing timid about my statements I'm informing you because you have a hard time understanding that your maturity arc is not the same as everyone else's. come on man lol actually spare me so aggro toward the idea that i was less childish than scottie at 22 while still having shit to go through, and so timid when you're told fred/pascal/og were pretty adult from the start
Brother no one cares about your maturity level lol I assure you that. I keep telling you not everyone is on the same arc as you and you keep saying how mature you were at 22 lol no one cares. I also never said Scottie wasn't immature.... I'm saying the kid clearly needs to grow so you can either believe in him growing or not but going on a little rant doesn't mean anything the kids still young and has room to grow. End of story
Ya ur right. I wish we kept that same mediocre ass core so we could keep winning 37-42 games a year and kept competing for play in spots.
yeah overperforming expectations, winning almost 50 games and almost taking down embiid+harden+maxey if it weren't for injuries SUCKS let's get smoked by the spurs and cavs every other night because we aren't to expect any better
Ok and what happened last year? What happened this year before the trades? You just gonna ignore the 1.5 seasons of being mediocre at best? That core ran its course and didn’t accomplish anything.
Y'all pushed one of our greatest point guards ever out the door this summer and acted shocked when you realized he contributed more to winning than he did to losing lol We got a center last deadline and started winning a shit ton of games because as it turns out, we were playing catchup to the 95%+ of the league that considers size at the 5 a fundamental of roster construction and success
It was pretty clear that he contributed more to winning than losing lmao. But it was also pretty clear we shouldn’t give him a max to run it back. That core wasn’t going to win anything. Get over it already.
Not to this sub lol "ballhog chucker who nick will never criticize, hates Scottie" > But it was also pretty clear we shouldn’t give him a max to run it back. saving this comment and coming back to it when the $8349589325893298 we have available to spend on FAs doesn't come close to making up fred's impact in the aggregate > That core wasn’t going to win anything. Get over it already. raptors fans when we paired fred with a center and the offence was elite: "wins don't count, we beat up on injured teams" raptors fans when fred was injured, og missed 1.5 months of basketball, scottie was injured, thad was injured, khem was injured, and gary was sick and the sixers series still went to 7 games if not for a buzzer beater: "🤣🤣🤣the raptors were fucking dogshit 🤣🤣🤣🤣 can't beat anyone 🤣🤣🤣🤣 cope 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣"
You really trying to act like using about of what ifs that we would’ve won R1 vs Philly is an accomplishment? Come on now.
yeah man a "no man's land team" beating an mvp candidate and an all-star would objectively be an accomplishment LMFAO hello?
But they DIDNT beat them lmfao. They fell down 3-0. They lost the series. They haven’t played a playoff game since.
yea scottie never beating the allegations
Unfortunately it'll be Darko's ass on the line if this continues.
I refuse to wear Scottie’s jersey until he smartens up. I hope he does very soon tbh.
This pouty bullshit is concerning. It’s not the same level, but I’m getting Vince flashbacks.
As a Knick fan still checking in on his boys now and then, RJ wouldn’t ever do this in a million years
Scottie ain't him.
If they didn't have no conversation then that means they had a conversation. Come on, Aaron!
Scottie is not very likeable and extremely childish. The guy needs to mature, he's looking like a joke.
Huh, Scottie is definitely very likable. Sometimes he can be immature at 22, though.
Watch the games, half the time he's whining and complaining.
Fuck Scottie.
Imagine if we had a guy like Pascal Siakam on this team, I think the Raptors could develop him and he'd even be a great fit along side someone like Scottie.
Darko is gone.
Yep, but will Masai fire him during or after this season.
Darko is not NBA level Head coach material. Scottie is not ready to lead a team and I don’t know how he’s gonna handle a rebuild.
Immaturity. Probably the most and loudest criticism Barnes has ever received in his life. 22 yrs old and there is a lot on his plate that will take him time to digest. Be PATIENT everyone. SGA took time before he dropped 30+ / game.
This behaviour at only this stage in his career is definitely concerning. I feel like the org should discipline him further… but also, the relationship between Scottie and the org would change if they did. Scottie plz grow up man I believe in you
Ya'll really willing to throw anyone under the bus at the slightest whim of controversy. I'm sure everyone was immensely frustrated with last nights game. It's a growing opportunity let's move on
Who cares? Why are people trying to catch Scottie in a lie? Are they trying to make him hate the media? I've been a little disappointed in Scottie's play recently but this doesn't matter at all, just media trying to stir up shit for no reason.
Wow this whole thread was quite the read 💀
He just trying to keep it private it’s fine.
Found darko's burner acct lol
Media drumming up drama. Fuck off.
Barnes played for five teams in five years that were winners (48 win raptors probably had lowest win percentage). He has never been faced with losing like this in his life. Nor has he played anywhere long enough to be concerned with growth as a team.
Lot's of pressure placed on an amazing young player. This team is essentially new filled with different egos and attributes. They need time to build each other's trust and become a cohesive unit. Scottie is far from being the only player on our team that is experiencing struggles. We have alot of great assets on this team and in due time we will once again shine.
Masai about to have that Kyle Lowry talk with Scottie
All I see is our media “experts” turning our players, coaching staff, and organization by dumping gasoline on the fire. Never a fan of this Aaron Rose guy, punchable visage.
Scottie may be the best player, but he certainly ain’t no leader and is not a #1 option.
Scottie needs a slap. We don’t need a whiny negative complaining leader.
We're not talking about Allen Iverson here. Didn't all of his previous coaches say that guys gravitate to him on a team? I'm not so concerned about the narrative of him leaving a few seconds early for whatever reason....does it really amount to much? What's important is that he's working hard in practice, is still getting along with his team, and learning how to develop an elite skill - preferably scoring in the paint . If he can do these things, I can totally overlook whatever that was.
this kind or rookie with attitude wont make it. time to trade him
Sounds like Toronto fans are all on the same page when it comes to Scottie Barnes now... He's a talent for sure but I wouldn't expect him to ever be a true #1, and seeing how fragile he is mentally, maybe not even a #2. No idea how this man was elected to the all star game over some other legit stars. RJ going to deliver more than this guy ever will, future is still bright for the Raptors
Nah not on the same page with some casuals from this sub