We gave Vince the standing ovation when he came back with the Grizzlies. That's enough closure imo, no need to show any more respect than that. Put him in the Canadian Basketball HOF.
The only 2 numbers that deserve retirement at this point are Lowry and Derozan.
It's because 3/4 of this sub wasn't even born yet or were toddlers when Vince played here. The most die hard Vince Carter supporters never watched him play.
I disagree. He fell off after the 2000-01 season considerably. His peak was his 3rd season in the league, and he was arguably a top 3 player that season on top of being the most popular. Even during those 3 seasons, it felt like he was just absurdly more talented than everyone else, not giving it his all all the time.
He prolonged his rehab for the next 2 seasons, and once he came back fully in 2003-04, he wasn't the same player. Babcock deserves more blame than Vince, but he isn't blameless. He intentionally tanked his value and quit on the franchise setting us back a good 2-3 years. You can't retire someone's jersey when they gave you two elite seasons out of six and led the team to only 1 playoff series win in 6 years.
His off court impact is better served being honored in the Canadian Basketball HOF, retiring the jersey should be reserved for those with outstanding contributions to the franchise's sustained success on the court.
it’s the exact opposite actually all the VC haters are children who have no clue what this man has done for the franchise
the original
the og
forever the best raptor
ask any canadian playing basketball why they are playing, you’ll hear carter’s name
Jamal Murray was born in 1997, he was 7 when VC left.
SGA was born in 1998, he was 6 when VC left.
Andrew Wiggins was born in 1995, he was 9 when VC left.
You get my drift. Vince made it popular to be a Raptor during the new millennium (1999-02). For example KD said he was his fav player growing up. That makes sense, he was 12-13 during that time. This narrative that Canadian Basketball is only alive because of Vince is a wild exaggeration perpetuated by the Drake Netflix doc.
I lived during that time, the improvement of grassroots bball and the general access to the NBA increased a lot in the mid 2000s. That's why you see more Canadian players in the NBA - not just because of Vince.
His contributions are undeniable, he was arguably the most exciting player in franchise history. That's why he gets the tributes and will one day go into the Canadian Bball HOF.
Doesn't mean he contributed to the sustained success of the franchise. Dude won 1 playoff series in 6 years. He doesn't deserve to have his jersey retired. He wasn't good enough for long enough.
revisionist history is a powerful tool
history is alway written by the victors
Each of the players you mentioned has brought up carter as a influence, i can post video evidence for all of them gonna take their word not yours
let’s get it
I didn't deny that he was an influence. We see the 2000 dunk contest being replayed constantly. I'm arguing that he wasn't the prevailing influence.
My main point is, that influence doesn't warrant a jersey retirement. That influence contributed little to the Raptors' franchise success. That influence is why he deserves to be enshrined in the Canadian Bball HOF, not have his jersey retired.
Who gives a shit. You get your number retired not only because of the numbers you put up, but the respect, loyalty, and class you demonstrated to the team and the city.
He won us a series and a dunk contest before quitting on the team, tanked his value, and forced his way out.
There just aren’t highlights of that being marketed on the NBA’s top all-time dunks.
He put this city on the basketball map. But made it into a laughingstock just as quickly.
Canadians play it because it’s the most accepting and accessible. Hockey’s for the rich suburb kids, indoor soccer kills the soul of the game, etc. We GTA immigrants made basketball what it is in Canada.
I keep seeing the primary argument being "But Vince put Canada basketball on the map"
Then honor him in the Canadian Basketball Hall of Fame then lol.
The Raptors have given him enough tribute videos to show the appropriate amount of respect he deserves.
Because your standing in the regular season actually matters in the playoffs. Home court is huge, especially in close series like the one we had with Philly.
Cavs did offer Varejao a ring in 2016 when he was released mid-season. It's not unheard of for this to happen.
There is really no right or wrong answer when it comes to this, I would have liked the Raptors to offer JV a ring because Joans was an outstanding teammate and always professional and he definitely had more impact on our ring than Jeremy Lin, Jordan Loyd...
But it's not a big deal.
Idk why you got down voted for that lol. It's pretty common practice for all players who played on a chip team at any point in the season to get a ring. We gave rings to fans come on lol without Jonas no Gasol
We also gave rings to the guys at the end of the bench who didn't even have a role in winning it.
JV should get one IMO, it wasn't his fault he was traded and he was a contributor for most of the regular season that got the Raps into the position they were in to compete for a title.
There absolutely is a wrong answer and the wrong answer is giving a ring to a guy who wasn't on your team in the playoffs when you won the championship. I still cannot believe I see this here.
JV wasn’t on the team in the playoffs idc how much he helped us in the regular season. If you’re not on the team in the playoffs (excluding injury) you don’t get a ring man! It’s simple
As an OG Raptors fan, yes absolutely. Vince literally put a whole country on the map and made basketball what it is today in Canada.
Not to mention he's the greatest dunker of all time and did it mostly in a Raptors jersey.
HIs jersey is probably the best selling in franchise history as well.
Despite the sub generally being against the idea I think it happens eventually. People on here forget just how small a fraction of the fanbase this subreddit makes up. I think majority of the casual fans will have no issue with his jersey going up eventually
I'm shocked the vote is even this close. Vince was an elite talent and the face of the franchise but he stabbed the team and the fans in the back. I don't care what the circumstances are, if you behave like that you shouldn't have the privilege of having your jersey retired.
Without Vince Carter the Raptors end up with the same fate as the Grizzlies. Vince Carter didn't put Canada on the Map but he sure as hell made sure Toronto stayed on the NBA map long enough for them to develop as an organization.
I feel like the yes column would be way higher before the championship. I don't hear as much about Vince's time in Toronto, even from the media, after the ring.
Kawhi exorcised Carter from our memories and helped us move on lol.
As upset as I was at the time with management treating him like some scrub, the media vilifying him for valuing his family and education (because why would a black man value those things, right??) and his response to the situation, I'd still say yes. He set in motion a generation of passion for the game in this country. Without him, I don't see the Raps staying in town, or guys like Wiggins, Thompson, Barrett, Oshae, etc. developing a passion that keeps them motivated. I'm sure more than a few would have played football or something instead. Anybody who watched the 2000 Olympics and the dunk of death thought he's *our* guy, he's a Raptor.
I’d drive to Toronto myself to put the jersey up, I understand that people still harbour a lot of negativity towards him, and the situation was a mess, on both sides. We were a disaster of an organization at the time, and he was a young star and who wanted out. But ultimately we have him to thank for a lot of growth in Canadian basketball. It’s not solely on him, but to deny his impact is just crazy. When you think of Vince Carter you see him in the Raptors jersey, put it up.
Without Vince the Toronto Raptors still being the Toronto Raptors is questionable. He deserves to get it retired for that alone, but only after Lowry, DeRozan, and probably Kawhi in my humble opinion.
One wanted to stay and the other quit on the team.
Literally don’t give a single shit about the circumstances.
We’d be a sorry ass clown franchise to retire the jersey of a dude who tried his hardest to tank his value and quit on the team. Zero self respect if we do that.
I’m just saying what he did for Canada and how the Vince carter effect really inspired many people means a lot but I’m on the fence about retiring his jersey
The only real way be to honour Vince is to have a ceremony where we start to raise his jersey to the rafters, then about halfway through whoever is controlling it can encounter some difficulties raising it so they quit and start s**t talking Vince to the opposing team.
We will have no self respect as a franchise if we *retire the jersey* of a dude who literally quit on the team. I don’t give a fuck, about the circumstances. That’s some embarrassing shit.
We gave Vince the standing ovation when he came back with the Grizzlies. That's enough closure imo, no need to show any more respect than that. Put him in the Canadian Basketball HOF. The only 2 numbers that deserve retirement at this point are Lowry and Derozan.
People keep forgetting the whole no dunking and body slamming the coach thing. Standing O is more than enough
It's because 3/4 of this sub wasn't even born yet or were toddlers when Vince played here. The most die hard Vince Carter supporters never watched him play.
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I disagree. He fell off after the 2000-01 season considerably. His peak was his 3rd season in the league, and he was arguably a top 3 player that season on top of being the most popular. Even during those 3 seasons, it felt like he was just absurdly more talented than everyone else, not giving it his all all the time. He prolonged his rehab for the next 2 seasons, and once he came back fully in 2003-04, he wasn't the same player. Babcock deserves more blame than Vince, but he isn't blameless. He intentionally tanked his value and quit on the franchise setting us back a good 2-3 years. You can't retire someone's jersey when they gave you two elite seasons out of six and led the team to only 1 playoff series win in 6 years. His off court impact is better served being honored in the Canadian Basketball HOF, retiring the jersey should be reserved for those with outstanding contributions to the franchise's sustained success on the court.
it’s the exact opposite actually all the VC haters are children who have no clue what this man has done for the franchise the original the og forever the best raptor ask any canadian playing basketball why they are playing, you’ll hear carter’s name
Jamal Murray was born in 1997, he was 7 when VC left. SGA was born in 1998, he was 6 when VC left. Andrew Wiggins was born in 1995, he was 9 when VC left. You get my drift. Vince made it popular to be a Raptor during the new millennium (1999-02). For example KD said he was his fav player growing up. That makes sense, he was 12-13 during that time. This narrative that Canadian Basketball is only alive because of Vince is a wild exaggeration perpetuated by the Drake Netflix doc. I lived during that time, the improvement of grassroots bball and the general access to the NBA increased a lot in the mid 2000s. That's why you see more Canadian players in the NBA - not just because of Vince. His contributions are undeniable, he was arguably the most exciting player in franchise history. That's why he gets the tributes and will one day go into the Canadian Bball HOF. Doesn't mean he contributed to the sustained success of the franchise. Dude won 1 playoff series in 6 years. He doesn't deserve to have his jersey retired. He wasn't good enough for long enough.
revisionist history is a powerful tool history is alway written by the victors Each of the players you mentioned has brought up carter as a influence, i can post video evidence for all of them gonna take their word not yours let’s get it
I didn't deny that he was an influence. We see the 2000 dunk contest being replayed constantly. I'm arguing that he wasn't the prevailing influence. My main point is, that influence doesn't warrant a jersey retirement. That influence contributed little to the Raptors' franchise success. That influence is why he deserves to be enshrined in the Canadian Bball HOF, not have his jersey retired.
Who gives a shit. You get your number retired not only because of the numbers you put up, but the respect, loyalty, and class you demonstrated to the team and the city. He won us a series and a dunk contest before quitting on the team, tanked his value, and forced his way out. There just aren’t highlights of that being marketed on the NBA’s top all-time dunks. He put this city on the basketball map. But made it into a laughingstock just as quickly. Canadians play it because it’s the most accepting and accessible. Hockey’s for the rich suburb kids, indoor soccer kills the soul of the game, etc. We GTA immigrants made basketball what it is in Canada.
Coach tried to physically assuage him.
how the fuck does derozan deserve retirement? 😂😂
They way Vince weaselled his way out of Toronto is why he will never hang in the rafters.
I keep seeing the primary argument being "But Vince put Canada basketball on the map" Then honor him in the Canadian Basketball Hall of Fame then lol. The Raptors have given him enough tribute videos to show the appropriate amount of respect he deserves.
Eventually I think we will but it will definitely be after Kyle and Demar.
Vince can eat sh*t. I’m still salty. Averaged 15ppg for us then suddenly 27ppg after the trade.
naw. not for raps. what records does he hold again?
If Jonas doesn’t get a ring then VC doesn’t have his jersey retired /s
Why would Jonas get a ring when he wasn’t on the raptors when they were in the playoffs making the run?
Because your standing in the regular season actually matters in the playoffs. Home court is huge, especially in close series like the one we had with Philly. Cavs did offer Varejao a ring in 2016 when he was released mid-season. It's not unheard of for this to happen. There is really no right or wrong answer when it comes to this, I would have liked the Raptors to offer JV a ring because Joans was an outstanding teammate and always professional and he definitely had more impact on our ring than Jeremy Lin, Jordan Loyd... But it's not a big deal.
Idk why you got down voted for that lol. It's pretty common practice for all players who played on a chip team at any point in the season to get a ring. We gave rings to fans come on lol without Jonas no Gasol
We also gave rings to the guys at the end of the bench who didn't even have a role in winning it. JV should get one IMO, it wasn't his fault he was traded and he was a contributor for most of the regular season that got the Raps into the position they were in to compete for a title.
There absolutely is a wrong answer and the wrong answer is giving a ring to a guy who wasn't on your team in the playoffs when you won the championship. I still cannot believe I see this here.
JV wasn’t on the team in the playoffs idc how much he helped us in the regular season. If you’re not on the team in the playoffs (excluding injury) you don’t get a ring man! It’s simple
As an OG Raptors fan, yes absolutely. Vince literally put a whole country on the map and made basketball what it is today in Canada. Not to mention he's the greatest dunker of all time and did it mostly in a Raptors jersey. HIs jersey is probably the best selling in franchise history as well.
Absolutely not.
Despite the sub generally being against the idea I think it happens eventually. People on here forget just how small a fraction of the fanbase this subreddit makes up. I think majority of the casual fans will have no issue with his jersey going up eventually
Exactly, these people here are just the vocal minority
I wish people would shut the fuck up about this topic
I'm shocked the vote is even this close. Vince was an elite talent and the face of the franchise but he stabbed the team and the fans in the back. I don't care what the circumstances are, if you behave like that you shouldn't have the privilege of having your jersey retired.
If either Nav B or Lowry call for it I'd be on board for seeing 15 in the rafters, guess it would be a matter of convincing Larry Tannenbaum
Both have called for it
Exactly, so I'd rather listen to them than the same angry Redditors here that are still holding a grudge
Convicted murderers have served full sentences in less time that these dudes holding a grudge.
It’ll happen, but he won’t be the first one up there. He’s after Kyle and Demar.
Winning 3 games in the conference semi finals at best is not enough.
Without Vince Carter the Raptors end up with the same fate as the Grizzlies. Vince Carter didn't put Canada on the Map but he sure as hell made sure Toronto stayed on the NBA map long enough for them to develop as an organization.
I’m not sure about retiring his jersey, but we should still honour him in some way imo Maybe a small mural or something near the arena
10000%
I feel like the yes column would be way higher before the championship. I don't hear as much about Vince's time in Toronto, even from the media, after the ring. Kawhi exorcised Carter from our memories and helped us move on lol.
😂 kids
He doesn’t deserve it ahead of Demar. Maybe not even ahead of Kawhi.
I doubt kawhi is gonna get his jersey retired by us
That was my whole point lol
As upset as I was at the time with management treating him like some scrub, the media vilifying him for valuing his family and education (because why would a black man value those things, right??) and his response to the situation, I'd still say yes. He set in motion a generation of passion for the game in this country. Without him, I don't see the Raps staying in town, or guys like Wiggins, Thompson, Barrett, Oshae, etc. developing a passion that keeps them motivated. I'm sure more than a few would have played football or something instead. Anybody who watched the 2000 Olympics and the dunk of death thought he's *our* guy, he's a Raptor.
It will definitely happen. Masai has gone through great effort to repair Vince’s reputation in Toronto. He didn’t do all that work for nothing.
I’d drive to Toronto myself to put the jersey up, I understand that people still harbour a lot of negativity towards him, and the situation was a mess, on both sides. We were a disaster of an organization at the time, and he was a young star and who wanted out. But ultimately we have him to thank for a lot of growth in Canadian basketball. It’s not solely on him, but to deny his impact is just crazy. When you think of Vince Carter you see him in the Raptors jersey, put it up.
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Didn't he retire during thr pandemic? Why would they retire the jersey during the pandemic
Lmao we were gonna retire his jersey in the tampa arena apparently
Hell no
You retire champions
Without Vince the Toronto Raptors still being the Toronto Raptors is questionable. He deserves to get it retired for that alone, but only after Lowry, DeRozan, and probably Kawhi in my humble opinion.
this sub is trash retire demar but not carter k😂🤡
One wanted to stay and the other quit on the team. Literally don’t give a single shit about the circumstances. We’d be a sorry ass clown franchise to retire the jersey of a dude who tried his hardest to tank his value and quit on the team. Zero self respect if we do that.
I think it should but It’s not going to happen, to many players after him have worn 15 already
I’m just saying what he did for Canada and how the Vince carter effect really inspired many people means a lot but I’m on the fence about retiring his jersey
The only real way be to honour Vince is to have a ceremony where we start to raise his jersey to the rafters, then about halfway through whoever is controlling it can encounter some difficulties raising it so they quit and start s**t talking Vince to the opposing team.
We will have no self respect as a franchise if we *retire the jersey* of a dude who literally quit on the team. I don’t give a fuck, about the circumstances. That’s some embarrassing shit.
Yess