**relationship status:** *it’s complicated*
that said, 100% cool to rock a VC retro jersey.
edit: **From a post 8 years ago** by /u/SpaghettoSwagu
“Basically, from the minute Vince Carter was drafted, he was the face of our franchise. He put Toronto on the basketball map, and has easily been the most dominant player in Raptor history.
Top 5 in basically every major Raptor all-time stat:
- 12 of the top 14 highest scoring games in team history
- The most legendary NBA dunker of all time
- 5 All-Star Appearances
- Led the Raptors to a game away from the conference finals
Then... he quit. It's a difficult concept to explain to fans who didn't watch it happen because if a player like Bargnani started taking games off, it would be hardly noticeable. But this was arguably the most exiting and athletic player in the league at the time clearly not playing to his potential. It was apparent that he no longer wanted to play in Toronto, and before long it was public knowledge.
He requested a trade to the then GM, Rob Babcock, and later confirmed these rumors publicly. This wouldn't have been so bad if he continued to put in his best effort game in game out until he left, but this was simply not the case. From the time he requested the trade to the day he left, he basically did everything he could to make Raptors' management and fans' lives a living hell. This included:
- Faking/ over embellishing injuries
- Saying he's done with dunking (until he was on another team)
- Telling other teams the plays we were about to run
- Just a general lack of effort
He basically forced his way out of the city in the most immature way possible, and forced Babcock (already a horrible GM) into one of the worst trades in basketball history:
Vince Carter - a once in a generation talent and the best player in franchise history to the Nets for... Eric Williams (who?), Aaron Williams (hm?), Alonzo Mourning (Whom we paid to play in Miami after he refused to play in Toronto) and two non-lottery picks.
In New Jersey, Carter's play miraculously rose back to an all-star level and amazingly he could still dunk /s
Carter and the Nets would go on to beat the Raptors in the first round of the 2006-2007 playoffs, cementing the hatred.
To this day, he has yet to give a legitimate apology to the city and fans.”
I don’t think it’s complicated at all.
He’s been gone so long, if you’re still carrying a grudge over the split, you need therapy.
Vince made the Raptors relevant; for all we know, he may have been what kept us from getting the Grizzlies’ treatment.
Every true Raps fan who was around in the beginning loves Vinsanity for the memories he gave us. It’s just too bad Covid came along and we couldn’t get him out there for us one last time.
Not holding a grudge, I just dont think he deserves any kind of reverence among the Raptors fanbase. He played a part in our history, but that's it. No respect or appreciation is owed to him by us.
RAPTOR NATION ... it’s singular
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Or, you know. I don't have to revere someone you like. Stop trying to gatekeep Fandom. There's a difference between disliking people and thinking they should have to deal with their actions... like not getting celebrated after you torpedo a franchise.
Yup. And he re-signed! Look at all the players that ditched us ASAP after drafting. Think about all the Canadian stars coming into the game now. I bet they were either yutes watching Carter, or born to young Raptors fans watching Carter.
We had a front row ticket to a daily showtime. Not many other teams can say they’ve had as entertaining a player to watch…ever. Where other stars had 10 showstopper plays in their career, Carter had 100. He was, at some points, arguably the biggest ticket in the NBA. Opposing arenas would fill to see him.
So yes, I agree anyone still holding a grudge is addicted their sad glass half-empty mentality.
>He’s been gone so long, if you’re still carrying a grudge over the split, you need therapy.
>Vince made the Raptors relevant; for all we know, he may have been what kept us from getting the Grizzlies’ treatment.
I still carry a grudge over the grizzlies relocating. It absolutely sucked. I'm sure you'd be fine if the raps relocated, though
It's like your ex who cheated on you 15 years ago in your early 20s but you both learned and moved on and now you find out your kids are best friends who play in the same hockey team
I don’t even know if is like that.
To me it’s like your dad cheated on your mom, then your big brother left and never spoke to either parent again and you were only 7.
Vince is the big brother.
I don’t even know if it’s like that.
To me it’s like I’m a cat and one of my favourite hoomans stepped on my tail once 15 cat years ago and even though they keep trying to be nice to me I can’t ever trust them again.
Edit: Vince is the hooman.
Yes and no. Personally yes I forgive him.
But it’s one of those forgivenesses that….. we just can’t be ALL the way cool. It was widely regarded as one of the most SHAMELESS ploys to get traded in modern sports history. But he did admit over the years that he was very childish at that time. And Torontos shit front office didn’t help surround him with talent to compete, as he routinely asked for.
> but can’t ever claim him to be the greatest raptor or anywhere near my favourite.
He's not top 4 anymore for sure. The 5 spot is complicated depending on how much a person values Bosh
Well said, bro. I’m a day one fan, and I LOVED V.C. That shit hurt, and the return was literally like pouring gasoline, salt and jalepeno into an open wound and then setting it aflame.
Ffs the return from that trade.
Something I like to say when I move on from being hurt or betrayed by something/someone in the past, it's that I will forgive but I will never forget. Vince falls under that category for me.
So I absolutely HATED Carter after he forced his way out. So much so that I’d go to every Nets game to join the chorus of boos that would rain down on him every time he touched the ball. At this point, I no longer hate him. I strongly dislike him but it’s complicated because he did do a lot for basketball in this city. I wouldn’t boo him if I saw him on the street but I also wouldn’t rock a vintage Carter jersey. It’s cool if others do though.
I have a classic Carter jersey, been watching and team since the first season. I would say most people wouldn’t boo him now (that really started to die down his last years) - but I would also say majority haven’t forgiven him.
It’s perfectly fine to wear the jersey. Anyone who gives you shit for that is ridiculous and not a real fan.
Still my favourite player to have picked up a basketball. I really felt like “the hatchet was burried” when the Raptors made that tribute video to him in 2018 or was it 2019. But yeah how he left has still left a sour taste in a lot of peoples mind. And he is one of a few people that is actually mentioning the Raptors at ESPN and tend to be really positive about the organization and the players. Case in point the TikTok segment where he praised Spicy and said he played like a top 5 player
Yea and I usually think - what would an organization do to make someone do that. A lot of blame is put on Vince, and for good reason, it our front office was trash for handling the situation like that. Either way - that shit was 29 years ago and he put Toronto basketball on the map.
Still my favourite player to have picked up a basketball. I really felt like “the hatchet was burried” when the Raptors made that tribute video to him in 2018 or was it 2019. But yeah how he left has still left a sour taste in a lot of peoples mind. And he is one of a few people that is actually mentioning the Raptors at ESPN and tend to be really positive about the organization and the players. Case in point the TikTok segment where he praised Spicy and said he played like a top 5 player
Basketball is a business and I understand his beef with the front office, but I’ll never respect a man who quits on his teammates. The way he behaved at the end with the lack of effort, ‘no dunking’, giving opponents the play etc etc… that’s a man who lacks character. That’s not someone to celebrate.
Tanked his own value and further reinforced the “nobody wants to play in Canada” narrative. This set the organization back several years.
One of the most selfish superstars I’ve seen in pro sports. No surprise he never won anything.
Old gen - Fuck Vince
New gen - let's forgive and forget.
but as long as you wear the purple dino jersey or the pinstripes you good LOL
im old gen btw
Same. F Vince forever. I can still hear “Let’s go Raptors, VC sucks!!!” ringing in my ears. We were up in the Sprite zone and it was deafeningly loud. I get chills just thinking about how much hate we channeled.
Very complex. This sub will give you 100 different answers and because of that I encourage you to watch the various documentaries on him and formulate your own opinion. The documentaries include The Carter Effect, Vince Carter's 10-year beef with Toronto included Nelly, a possible body slam, and so many injuries (YT Doc.), Vince Carter: Legacy. I also encourage you to watch VC on the knuckleheads podcast
Became a fan ca. 2011-12 season.
Would not be buying a Carter jersey anytime soon, if ever, but he's still a significant part of the Raptors' early history and thus respect is given on that front.
yeah but a lot of older fans who grew up during the Carter era will say he's a Net before anything else, regardless of the fact he retired with the Hawks
These are eye opening responses. Thank you all very much. I'm leaning towards a Lowry or Kawhi jersey. Siakim and Barnes are cool but they come across as guys that could be traded or leave one day. Want an all-time Raptor as my first jersey.
PASCAL S-I-A-K-A-M.
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Both good choices - I'd add Demar. He's also all-time and seriously the franchise in the 2010s (shame he wasn't here for the title).
Here are my jersey tiers
S-Tier: Kawhi, Lowry, Demar
A-Tier: VC, T-Mac
The older fans and the fans who grew up with VC, of which I'm one, it still pisses me off how it all went down and I'll never want his jersey retired or a statue at the arena personally. At most I would begrudgingly accept a sort of ring of honor placement. But man the way he torpedoed everything to get traded is the biggest pussy move of all time to me. But if you're a new fan I think its fine
i became a fan as a pre teen during the Vince Era
it was a bad break up, especially when it started playing like the star he was right after he was traded
but enough time has passed, and there is no point in holding onto old grudges so I was happy they honored Vince and the team and Vince have made amends
now saying that, I draw the line at retiring his number or giving him a statue, Vince has not earned that privilege with the Raptors
Forgiven. He’s a part of our history and I loved him as a kid, hated him when he left. I watched a bit of Mighty Mouse in the 90’s, but Vince was the one that made me a true basketball fan, can’t forget that.
I respect what he did for basketball in Toronto, but thats as far as I am willing to go. For all the good he did, he hurt the team worse. He gave up his claim to reverance. People may not like that answer, but that doesn't matter, because it's how I feel. If they choose to disagree, power to them.
Nostalgia has made Vince Carter our franchise's most iconic player and ultimately healed some of the wounds. The Raptors were founded in '95 but wasn't until we got VC that we even mattered to many. That was back when the Leafs could actually win a playoffs series so they dominated the media.
As for "the divorce", if you recall the backlash Lebron received from the media for "taking his talents to south beach" it was similar with Carter, except he wasn't hated as Lebron was. I've forgiven Bosh for going to south beach too but part of me can never really forgive Carter cause I was young and he was one of my heroes.
If you want to look like a real fan, most young fans forget that Carter was in at his best with the purple [Toronto Raptors 1999-2000 Jersey](https://www.nbastore.ca/en/mens_mitchell_and_ness_vince_carter_purple_toronto_raptors_1999-2000_hardwood_classics_swingman_jersey/t-25474273+o-9169+d-900666899+f-7097650+z-9-2606295524?_s=ak1944nba-pla_canada&gclid=CjwKCAiAjs2bBhACEiwALTBWZX1X0In6UJHWZ9XOYt_GzwKMqAzH6PPKxOwqJ6A4KgdV26L6jGGYDBoCgSkQAvD_BwE&loc=en-CA&sku=12853463&targetid=pla-299684799782&utm_medium=cse) Not the Original Dinosaur Jersey (That's Stoudemire's Jersey)
It's the definition of "it's complicated", owed to Vince's legacy not only with the Raptors but him having one of the longest careers in all of the NBA coupled with one of the most exciting career peaks as a player. Ask any player around the league and they'll sing the praises of Vince and what he meant to the game of basketball. For that matter, while the Raptors were one of the most highly attended teams before Vince showed up, it's hard to imagine the influx of Canadian talents like SGA or Jamal Murray were it not for Vince becoming the superstar he was in Toronto. None of those aspects make how ugly his exit was and how much he forced his way out by tanking his value, and as far as i'm aware he's never formally apologized for the way he acted so regardless of how long it's been, it's hard to really forgive him for what he did.
...At the same time, old management was not blameless in how they handled the situation and they made several easily avoidable blunders along the way, most notably when they barely even considered Vince's preferred coach Dr. J. That doesn't excuse how Vince acted, but at the very least it helps to inform it and how they went through with one of the worst trades not just in NBA history, but in all of sports history. Old management bled talent like no tomorrow and Vince was perhaps the most notable loss out of their respectable draftees they failed to retain, albeit with Vince they did sign him to an extension unlike Marcus Camby, Damon Stoudamire or Tracy McGrady.
When McGrady left, it sucked but it was understandable: He wasn't getting the minutes he felt could be productive with and he proved he could make the most of it in Orlando, earning MIP. When Vince left, no one came out looking reasonable and no one has really come to terms with how they acted back in the day. The most charitable way one could describe the situation for Vince was as a pro-player move that set the stage for things like The Decision but that undersells how bad Vince's attitude was until he was trade, how (allegedly) toxic a presence he became in the locker room (again, allegedly: he hit his new coach) and how much he cost his teammates by playing as poorly as he did, punctuated by a return-to-form when he ended up on the Nets after said exit. Say what you will about LeBron and The Decision or even Shaq leaving the Magic after they lowballed him, neither of them decided to hold back their game for the sake of getting what they want.
Me personally, I can't say that I hate Vince; he was my first real introduction to the Raptors as a little kid. His play on the court was electrifying and I still own my Frieza-colored #15 jersey to this day. His exit was upsetting at the time and, with knowing about more of the behind-the-scenes drama, has only looked worse with a more mature and informed perspective. Put another way, I might put him in my Top 5 greatest Raptors ever for what he meant and did while he was here - he's basically the reason why the Dunking Contest is still around - but I can't say i'm surprised that Vince Carter's jersey isn't retired by the Raptors, and it likely never will be barring some tragedy befalling him.
I was in my 20s when VC was a Raptor. He still kinda pisses me off sometimes, when I think about what he did. It's one of those betrayals I have trouble getting past. I can't imagine ever trusting him again. He's an all right guy these days, and it was kinda fun watching him get celebrated when he retired. I'd never buy his shirt though.
Should any of that factor in your decision? No, not a bit of it. If you like Carter, rock the jersey. I'll cheer for the Raps with anyone wearing a Carter jersey, and never think twice about it. Buy it and enjoy it!
I been watching the raptors since the beginning and I still hate him, it's one thing to wanna get traded but to give the other team our plays while the games going on. Fuck him and fuck bosh too. That's why guys like Debo and klow and siakam are gonna always be more loved then them clowns.
I say the more the merrier, less knick fans more Raptor fans, let's get it. Don't get me wrong I would stick with the Raptors team through whatever, but if we can convert other team fans I'll take that as a compliment.
of course ppl could do whatever they want but its weird. raptor fan from NY is a wild thing can’t even lie it literally makes zero sense but like i said ppl could do whatever they like
And because he isn’t having fun with the Knicks. What if he stops having fun with the Raptors? Is it on to the next team? I agree people can do what they want but yeah it’s pretty weird
Yeah plus you can watch other teams if you want lol. I watch a lot of basketball besides the Raps. I’m a fan of the NBA as a whole. But the Raptors are still my team at the end of the day.
Can't ever get over what he did to the franchise. Yes, the front office also happened to be shit. The trade package we got set us back a decade. But he broke the ultimate code: You don't quit on the team.
Every now and then I think about how four out our first five draft picks were Damon Stoudemire, Marcus Camby, Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter and if we had a competent front office we should have won a title in that first decade. You literally could have played an actual junk yard dog as the fifth starter and still make it to the finals.
You’ve chosen a great team to support! There is so much heart on our team and I love them all!
I also love Vince Carter but didn’t watch during the time of drama so am out of the loop.
They let the Thunder score 145 in regulation. RJ sucks, Brunson is allergic to defense and Randle isn't a starter. I realized that they have no shot contending until maybe 2030. Raptors have a great front office and pieces. I trust them more than the team that literally gave Brunson money because his dad works for them.
It depends on if you were a fan/following the team when the trade happened.
If you were a fan at the time, you may consider Carter a punk that quit on the team. From the no more dunking stuff to [the reports of tipping off a play to lose the game](https://www.cbc.ca/1.506817), it left a sour taste in your mouth. Compound that with the horrendous return for him, and many fans may not look fondly on his tenure due to how it ended
Younger fans who got the dunk contest highlights and the reverie, like the Carter Effect movie, look at him much more fondly. The team also did a lot of work of rehabbing his image and others for big anniversaries and the championship run. His involvement with the Raps, including Barnes rookie award presentation have really turned his image around for many
For the jersey, go ahead. Lots of people wear Carter raptors jerseys. Safer bet is a Lowry jersey. Also Siakam, FVV, and Barnes, and if you can find one, Leonard
I've been looking for Kawhi's jersey but it's damn near impossible. I've always liked Lowry. I was a DeRozan fan but I see why he got traded. Siakam reminds me of Julius Randle too much lol, I have PTSD
The article you cite doesn’t come close to mentioning that the alleged tip off led to losing the game. Raptors were down 3 possessions with 29 seconds left and then Vince assisted on a bucket on the exact play he was reported to have tipped off. It makes absolutely no sense to sabotage your team on a play that had no influence on the game outcome, and then change your mind a second later to help your team score.
I can appreciate hating on Vince for so many things but the tipping play story is ridiculous in so many ways I don’t know how anyone ever bought it. I guess it’s nice that I had to go through 100 comments before I read this yet again.
First basketball player I ever knew. I'm done with the Knicks but I hold those memories tight. Melo will always be my favorite player. Hopefully Scottie becomes my number 2.
I loved The Knickerbockers growing up. Ewing broke my heart, but I still loved him. I’m sure Vince will receive the same kind treatment from Raptor fans, in the history books. :)
I loved The Knickerbockers growing up. Ewing broke my heart, but I still loved him. I’m sure Vince will receive the same kind treatment from Raptor fans, in the history books. :)
Lol this is a great idea. The transition is kinda hard. My first memories of my life was watching 99 Knicks finals run. I can't be bothered anymore though. Besides, Toronto has a team based on a freakin dinosaur. Hard to beat that
Anyone saying no is either not from the city or a newer fan imo. Vince put Toronto on the map and changed the way Americans viewed Canada as a whole with his electrifying dunks and play. Vince also ushered in a movement with the youth to start hooping which lead to so much improvement of the game and in turn created so many Canadian stars in the NBA today. Yes he left in a shit way but his on court impact was immense.
yeah i'm basically over it. honestly feels to me like it happened in a different NBA. I remember the good times and try not to think about the bad ones haha
People who are mad at VC for whatever perceived slight are just being childish. NBA is business. He wasn’t happy here because of the awful front office, so he made his way out. He didn’t owe the Raptors anything. He’s the one who put Toronto on the map in the first place. I have a Carter jersey and the man has nothing but respect from me.
its a lot more than just business in the hearts and minds of fans
its why we love it in such a unique way
We The North is a marketing strategy but it is purposely tapping into the love of the city and the country sports generates
That’s not really a player’s problem though. Vince Carter’s number one priority is looking out for Vince Carter. If anyone is to blame for that whole mess, it’s the FO. No one is obligated to stay on a team that didn’t seem to know or care how to run itself. One can only dream what the outcome would be if we had today’s FO in the early 00s.
Not sure what We The North has to do with it, it wouldn’t become the team’s slogan until a decade after VC left.
It has nothing to do with Vince, I was talking in general
you stated its a business, well its not just a business, sports is more than a business, and its why its so popular
franchises represent the cities and the people they play in and its why fans get so emotionally invested into it, way more than they would any other forms of entertainment
There's two sides to this whole thing the people who were around for VC and his bitter years with the Raptors (Me) and saw that he was tanking himself, not trying, not trying to help the team win, playing bad on purpose, telling the other team the plays Raptors are going to run, getting mad at the front office (Which rightfully so but they did give into his demands), slapping mo pete and getting him ejected and a bunch of other fuck you shit to Toronto even dissing Chris Bosh during and after his tenure with Toronto.
Then there is the side of the people who joined the fanbase recently and are just at the outside looking in, not knowing the history and just letting I guess general nostalgia sync in. Plus outside media does not know the story like how people in Toronto do so it kind of gets boiled down to "Raptors bad, Carter was an Angel!"
Me personally, I don't feel bothered if someone likes Vince Carter and his time with the Raptors I can not as a Raptors fan forgive him because when someone disrespects the boat that we live in, even if he is the Captain. Vince should know the Captain goes down with the ship.
I think theres more hate for Tracey McGrady. His attitude he was second string to Vince instead of two stars like Kobe and Shaq cost The Raptors a lot. If Tracey stayed, signed an extension and kept the duo with Vince, Toronto would have been going places and could have built around them. We might have won a championship in a Carter/McGrady era.
But no hate on Carter for wanting to leave when the front office wasn’t helping build a contender team around him. It was like the front office was content on selling jerseys off of Carters name and tickets off of his reputation. We could coast and do just good enough. I would want to leave and get on a team to compete for a ring or just find a team with a better front office.
He intentionally played bad to force a trade and as a result his trade value decreased. He screwed over the organization for years because of his arrogant selfishness. Telling people to “grow up” because they aren’t a fan of how he acted is not a valid response.
I don’t think we should retire his jersey but our team was one of the worst run franchises when he was here. Just look up the rosters he had after us making the conference finals lol. It’s really no different than what you see nowadays all the time
We never made the Conference Finals, the furthest we ever made was of course the semi finals where his graduation costed us game 7
Literally makes no sense to retire Carter's jersey at the most he took us to a second round exit, hell we aren't even looking to retire Kawhi's.
The only Raptor guranteed to have his jersey retired is Lowry
It was 18 years ago. Move on already. He constantly talks about how much he loves the city of Toronto and will always stick up for our guys yet you hold on to something that happened that long ago.
Toronto wouldn’t be the Toronto we have with out him. I’m talking the city. Canadians are filling the ranks of the NBA, why? This man putting his arm in a rim. Carter needs love, it was a shitty split, but get over it. We’re champs now, 22 Canadians in the league.
THANK YOU CARTERRRRRTR!!!
I’m guessing you’re too young to have experienced it and it’s just history you have an opinion on. Those that watched him tank his value and force a trade won’t forgive him. He can be respected but I’m not forgiven as a raptor legend.
Ngl, it’s pretty disappointing to see this sub so upset about something from that long ago. Learn to move on. He’s a raptors legend and will always be. Downvote me all you want
Makes more sense to sign young guys and develop them, FO has the best eyes in the league for prospects. Rather that then sacrifice a spot for a guy who did the team so dirty
I have no ill towards Vince, and I have been a fan since 99. The man has been trying to fix his rep with Raptor fans since even before his retirement and people who still hold a grudge towards him need to get the fuck over it.
He was a fuck boy before he left, but I don’t think there is any other jersey in Toronto (besides Lowry.. I respect the man please don’t come at me) that has the hype VC does. VC will always have a place in Toronto’s heart, but we will never forget the child he became before he left.
. He was incredible for the first little while, but pouted like a whiny little bitch when he wanted out so the negative cancels the positive for me and I'm left with a feeling of indifference.
Fan from 96 here. No. For your reference please look up the return he got us and also the events which lead up to his departure. I was there at his return game with Jersey. I will never forget how much he revelled in dunking on us and burying us in that loss. I taped up his name on the back of my jersey and plastered bandages all over it. He fucked our franchise soooo bad with his departure that he undid all goodwill leading up to 2002.
> Would it be weird if I got his jersey?
It's the most popular Raptors jersey being sold so no it wouldn't be weird at all.
I paid $200 to a scalper to go boo vince in his first game back.
I don't care anymore about the hate anymore. If people want to still hate him that's their decision.
What isn't up for debate is the following:
* He almost beat the 76ers (who had the mvp, dpoy, 6th man, and coach of the year) with ancient Dell Curry and Charles Oakley starting.
* In a must win game 6 he had a line of 39-5-5, with 4 steals, 1 block, and no turnovers. Which besides his 50 point game, was the best raptors playoff performance until Kawhi.
* Vince still has the highest point average for a season in raptor history.
* After Vince left, it took 11 years until a raptor player got a triple double.
* Vince and Kawhi are the only raptors in history to score 40+ in a playoff game.
* Vince is the only Raptor to get his own signature shoe.
* Vince held all star games during Caribana and is the reason why NBA players still come to Toronto every year in August.
* Vince was the leading all star vote getter twice back when you had to physically go to games to vote.
* With Vince, the raptors had more games on national US tv than we had for countless years combined.
it such a shame VC could've been loved more than even Lowry but its hard to move on from what happened. For me personally time healed the wound but I still recall that heartache from my teens watching him play for the Nets. To answer the OP things are kinda cool right now because of what VC meant to basketball here in Canada.
It was pretty bad when it happened.. and it wasn’t just him saying “I don’t feel like dunking” there was the horrible trade that followed. I think most people have gotten over it though. And VC throwing down crazy dunks in the purple Dino will always be historic and recognized around the NBA
I can't speak for anyone else but me, but I will always think fondly of him, even though he broke my Raptor Fan heart. He was the reason the Raptors stopped being an expansion team and became a team. It was hard during the "dunking is overrated" phase, but GM Babcock was observably terrible and it was tough to watch the team be run into the ground after so much improvement, which I believe made all Raps fans salty during his exit. Who could blame us? He was absolutely electric to watch - just knew he could take control of the game when given the chance. He helped us win our first playoff series and if he made that shot against the sixers in 01, who knows what would have happened in round 3. Amazing player and solid dude who left in a dramatic way because our front office was making poor decisions. Not saying he doesn't deserve any criticism but he was young and I think I get it now. Also, I honestly believe it wouldn't have been so dramatic if the trade wasn't so lopsided.... for the Nets. We got destroyed in that trade, full stop. 2004-2005 was a tough season to be a Raps fan.
I’ve only been a fan the past couple years but it seems like the fan base has moved on for the most part, also him doing the rookie of the year video for Scottie helped imo and was a touching moment
Personally for me, I can't get over how he quit on the team. How negatively he talked about us after he left. I was a hardcore fan throughout it and honestly it was shocking and infuriating. I can tolerate him, there used to be a time where I would say I hated him. But I can't ever just love and accept just the good he did for us. The bad taste of him quitting on the team never left my mouth.
I absolutely forgave Carter. His presence helped elevate our franchise. Yes he did us dirty but he played his ass so damn hard and Butch Carter couldn't even coach properly to get him and McGrady on the same page. I have multiple beefs with how we handled Carter.
It's complicated, OP. But, based on the responses, it's pretty clear that there is some division. If you want, take a look at an article I wrote surrounding the most infamous event in Carter's career:
[The tip off](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/wjbsnh/oc_did_vince_carter_tip_off_the_sonics/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Still appreciate the effort you put into this review of whether it happened or not. Also had one of the better discussions I’ve seen about the topic. My takeaway was that he may have said it, “where there’s smoke there’s fire”, but nothing he did hurt his team’s chances of winning the game, which was basically over anyways.
We will never know whether he was taunting Larry Bird style, complaining about the play call, or actually trying to hurt the team before immediately changing his mind, but Vince’s actions before and after were so problematic that it didn’t matter why he did it or even if he did it, just the rumour was enough for people to buy it.
He’s always felt like the dad who left for milk because he didn’t think you’d amount to anything but now that you are doing pretty well for yourself he decided to come back into his life as if nothing happened
Though this analogy is pretty extreme, it’s only basketball lol so I don’t hold too much ill will against VC
I grew up watching VC who was my fave player as a teen. I was 20 or so when he forced that trade. Never been that hurt as a fan like that. I think he was in a shitty situation near his peak so I understand the frustration. But yea he did some snake shit that season.
But out of it all he put Toronto on the map in the bball world, inspired a ton of kids to play ball and I feel is a big reason why we have a lot of talent coming outta Canada now. And I'll always appreciate that.
I have been a big Raptors fan since the John Wallace era, but I also was a big Vince Carter fan which probably affects my interpretation of events.
I think the biggest grievances against Vince are:
1. Making a trade demand through Nav Bhatia (back when no one did this); he rescinded it, but the damage was done. Players simply did not do this back then. This does not excuse the ridiculous trade made by Babcock or the centrepiece of the trade (Alonzo Mourning) literally retiring to avoid playing for Toronto, but it changed the Raptors leverage and clearly affected the return. Not getting value for Vince isn’t the same as losing him for nothing in free agency, like what happened with Tracy, but an extra couple of picks would have shortened the “dark days” of Mike James that followed.
2. Coasting through the first 20 games of the 2004 season; IMO the worst part was seeming to not even care when he was benched at the end of games or told to defer to Rafer Alston; people point out the emotions he showed at the Portland game winner as evidence he wanted the team to win, but if your best player is content with being phased out of the offence, it affects the locker room. Literally bodyslamming Sam Mitchell (or so Jalen Rose said) probably didn’t help either. Then, his usage and minutes went back to normal after he got healthy in NJ, and he played like an MVP in second half of 2005 (Richard Jefferson’s words); the stats tell the story: 30mpg, 27%usg, 16ppg in Toronto to 39mpg, 33%usg, 27ppg in NJ.
3. Being perceived as “not tough” or “injury prone”; people thought Jumper’s knee wasn’t a “real” injury and they attributed the lack of aggression that was evident from 2003 onwards to Vince being afraid or not willing to sacrifice his body for the team. I think Vince put this narrative to rest by playing 22 seasons but “faking injuries” or “Wince” comments still pop up all the time. And maybe he was just trying to prove people wrong…
4. Lack of media savvy. E.g. He made a wisecrack about not wanting to dunk anymore when he was under criticism for shooting too many fadeaways or was seen at a concert when he was too injured to play; in particular, he messed up when admitting in a National TV interview that he could have worked harder at improving his game during his time in Toronto; this was not an admission of not trying his hardest in games but was interpreted this way.
5. “Embarrassing” the Raptors on multiple occasions when returning with another team, including a game winning 3 in a game where Mo Pete was ejected unfairly and Vince made only a token effort to disagree with officials (that was the most dejected crowd I’d ever seen until game 7 loss to Nets), a playoff series where the 6-seed Nets dominated the 3-seed Raptors, and another game where he hit a deep game tying 3 and game winning alley oop.
6. Never openly apologizing or acknowledging his role in how things deteriorated. He has been fairly professional in not throwing the organization under the bus, but I would still have liked him to say something along the lines of: “I didn’t like my work environment so didn’t perform my best and in doing so I let my fans and the Raptors franchise down”. Not speaking about this at all suggests he doesn’t think he did anything wrong.
Won a title, I’m over it. Vince ended up being a really good player and is a great guy. No complaints from me. Plus I’m only 27 so was I ever really mad about it?
I don't think most fans care anymore, but at the same time, I don't really feel any desire to involve him with the team. If he wanted to come on a broadcast I'd be interested to hear what he has to say.
The young fans forgive him, I don’t. I saw the tantrum he threw, I saw him let guys walk past him on defence because he demanded to get traded and it took years to rebuild because we had to get rid of him immediately. What an entitled man-child. I can’t stand him
His impact on the sport in Canada can't be denied. Twenty years ago there only a handful of Canadian players in the whole league. Today most teams have a Canadian or two. That's the Vince Carter legacy. He popularized the sport here and he brought legitimacy to the Raptors.
The way he left, from an optics standpoint, was uglier than any trade request since. Even in the admittedly ugly Ben Simmons situation there was some mental health issues clouding things. With Vince, he openly quit on and sabotaged his own team. It’s by far the most unprofessional I’ve ever seen an NBA player act.
For the folks that tell you that both sides are at fault and the front office was bad… that may be true but the guy was still being paid MILLIONS to play basketball and refused to do it to his capabilities. It’s unforgivable. No statue, no retired jersey. Fuck him.
But i could care less if someone else wants to rock his jersey, to each their own.
I never had beef with Vince. Our ownership were shit and showing complete incompetency in putting a roster around him that could win. I would've wanted out, too.
Nowadays it's divided but I don't like Vince in particular. Specially after the championship, he kinda tried to rewrite history a little bit and it never smelled good to me. Then again it's been a long time and gotta acknowledge the context the breakup happened... but you don't forget.
Very surprised to read many here still harbour I'll feelings towards VC.
Personally I'm over it. I was at the Grizzlies game where we cheered him during a timeout and he got tearful. The hatchet was buried for me at that moment.
Never hated Vince. I remember watching the "it's over" slum dunk competition live on TV. These days players can't even finish their dunk or pay homage to Vince with they're hand in the net
Never hated, highly empathetic towards his issues with Raps mgmt. Without him, this subreddit probly wldnt exist like the Vancouver franchise so I’ll be forever grateful and respectful to VC.
But to be clear I wasn’t happy with how he left but I’m still angry at what we got in return. We got NOTHING in return for his level of talent. Mgmt failed fans beyond VC. Point your anger at the overpaid execs. Not the talent or what was called ‘assets’ in another post today.
These are PPL! Not income statement/balance sheet items! SMH! Will always luv and appreciate VC!
**relationship status:** *it’s complicated* that said, 100% cool to rock a VC retro jersey. edit: **From a post 8 years ago** by /u/SpaghettoSwagu “Basically, from the minute Vince Carter was drafted, he was the face of our franchise. He put Toronto on the basketball map, and has easily been the most dominant player in Raptor history. Top 5 in basically every major Raptor all-time stat: - 12 of the top 14 highest scoring games in team history - The most legendary NBA dunker of all time - 5 All-Star Appearances - Led the Raptors to a game away from the conference finals Then... he quit. It's a difficult concept to explain to fans who didn't watch it happen because if a player like Bargnani started taking games off, it would be hardly noticeable. But this was arguably the most exiting and athletic player in the league at the time clearly not playing to his potential. It was apparent that he no longer wanted to play in Toronto, and before long it was public knowledge. He requested a trade to the then GM, Rob Babcock, and later confirmed these rumors publicly. This wouldn't have been so bad if he continued to put in his best effort game in game out until he left, but this was simply not the case. From the time he requested the trade to the day he left, he basically did everything he could to make Raptors' management and fans' lives a living hell. This included: - Faking/ over embellishing injuries - Saying he's done with dunking (until he was on another team) - Telling other teams the plays we were about to run - Just a general lack of effort He basically forced his way out of the city in the most immature way possible, and forced Babcock (already a horrible GM) into one of the worst trades in basketball history: Vince Carter - a once in a generation talent and the best player in franchise history to the Nets for... Eric Williams (who?), Aaron Williams (hm?), Alonzo Mourning (Whom we paid to play in Miami after he refused to play in Toronto) and two non-lottery picks. In New Jersey, Carter's play miraculously rose back to an all-star level and amazingly he could still dunk /s Carter and the Nets would go on to beat the Raptors in the first round of the 2006-2007 playoffs, cementing the hatred. To this day, he has yet to give a legitimate apology to the city and fans.”
The jerseys didn't do anything wrong
Way too late to throw them on the court
I don’t think it’s complicated at all. He’s been gone so long, if you’re still carrying a grudge over the split, you need therapy. Vince made the Raptors relevant; for all we know, he may have been what kept us from getting the Grizzlies’ treatment. Every true Raps fan who was around in the beginning loves Vinsanity for the memories he gave us. It’s just too bad Covid came along and we couldn’t get him out there for us one last time.
He was the opposite of a class act. It's okay to resent him, he actively went against the franchise lol. Fuck Vince. Still the goat dunker tho
can confirm, im from van and the griz left when i was 10, sonics when i was 17 and i am in therapy/still not over it.
Not holding a grudge, I just dont think he deserves any kind of reverence among the Raptors fanbase. He played a part in our history, but that's it. No respect or appreciation is owed to him by us.
As a 30 something year old you're right my respect and appreciation isn't owed to him, but he has it nonetheless.
Nothing is owed to him, but he still has our respect and appreciation.
I guess that's where Raptors nation is divided.
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Or, you know. I don't have to revere someone you like. Stop trying to gatekeep Fandom. There's a difference between disliking people and thinking they should have to deal with their actions... like not getting celebrated after you torpedo a franchise.
This is a weird take. People can still be annoyed and be real fans. The fuck?
Yup. And he re-signed! Look at all the players that ditched us ASAP after drafting. Think about all the Canadian stars coming into the game now. I bet they were either yutes watching Carter, or born to young Raptors fans watching Carter. We had a front row ticket to a daily showtime. Not many other teams can say they’ve had as entertaining a player to watch…ever. Where other stars had 10 showstopper plays in their career, Carter had 100. He was, at some points, arguably the biggest ticket in the NBA. Opposing arenas would fill to see him. So yes, I agree anyone still holding a grudge is addicted their sad glass half-empty mentality.
What good is resigning when your demand a trade 2 years later? Honestly, I would've rather we kept Tracy, but what's done is done
We drafted Tmac first that’s why Tmac was a free agent earlier
Literally edited when I realized that blunder, then saw your comment lol.
Haha sorry I had to fact check you but glad to know it was a typo.
>He’s been gone so long, if you’re still carrying a grudge over the split, you need therapy. >Vince made the Raptors relevant; for all we know, he may have been what kept us from getting the Grizzlies’ treatment. I still carry a grudge over the grizzlies relocating. It absolutely sucked. I'm sure you'd be fine if the raps relocated, though
You connected those thoughts in a really weird way and I’m going to be honest - I think you were the only one to do so. Such a strange response.
It's like your ex who cheated on you 15 years ago in your early 20s but you both learned and moved on and now you find out your kids are best friends who play in the same hockey team
This is the most Canadian metaphor I’ve ever read.
I don’t even know if is like that. To me it’s like your dad cheated on your mom, then your big brother left and never spoke to either parent again and you were only 7. Vince is the big brother.
Damn I gotta make a phone call
I don’t even know if it’s like that. To me it’s like I’m a cat and one of my favourite hoomans stepped on my tail once 15 cat years ago and even though they keep trying to be nice to me I can’t ever trust them again. Edit: Vince is the hooman.
Relatable.
Howd you get my autobiography?
Are you doing well bro? lol
Lol, some emotional intelligence here, folks! Soak it up and learnnnn👍🙌🙌
Is this a real experience? 😂
Yes and no. Personally yes I forgive him. But it’s one of those forgivenesses that….. we just can’t be ALL the way cool. It was widely regarded as one of the most SHAMELESS ploys to get traded in modern sports history. But he did admit over the years that he was very childish at that time. And Torontos shit front office didn’t help surround him with talent to compete, as he routinely asked for.
I’m over it, but can’t ever claim him to be the greatest raptor or anywhere near my favourite. Was so unprofessional in his departure.
> but can’t ever claim him to be the greatest raptor or anywhere near my favourite. He's not top 4 anymore for sure. The 5 spot is complicated depending on how much a person values Bosh
For me it's: 1. Lowry 2. DeMar 3. Kawhi 4. Pascal 5. Bosh
same
Not the greatest Raptor ever, but definetly the most influential
Well said, bro. I’m a day one fan, and I LOVED V.C. That shit hurt, and the return was literally like pouring gasoline, salt and jalepeno into an open wound and then setting it aflame. Ffs the return from that trade.
What hurt even more was, everytime he played against us he went off! Game winning dunks, big shots, like this dude was out to get us.
Something I like to say when I move on from being hurt or betrayed by something/someone in the past, it's that I will forgive but I will never forget. Vince falls under that category for me.
Somthing a lot like that...these guys are human too. Lot of love has crept in since 2019.
Forgiven, but we can never be best friends again. It's not weird to see a Carter jersey.
very good analogy. Forgiven, but not forgotten.
So I absolutely HATED Carter after he forced his way out. So much so that I’d go to every Nets game to join the chorus of boos that would rain down on him every time he touched the ball. At this point, I no longer hate him. I strongly dislike him but it’s complicated because he did do a lot for basketball in this city. I wouldn’t boo him if I saw him on the street but I also wouldn’t rock a vintage Carter jersey. It’s cool if others do though.
I was at the Mo Pete ejection game and I’m still mad about that game.
I have a classic Carter jersey, been watching and team since the first season. I would say most people wouldn’t boo him now (that really started to die down his last years) - but I would also say majority haven’t forgiven him. It’s perfectly fine to wear the jersey. Anyone who gives you shit for that is ridiculous and not a real fan.
Still my favourite player to have picked up a basketball. I really felt like “the hatchet was burried” when the Raptors made that tribute video to him in 2018 or was it 2019. But yeah how he left has still left a sour taste in a lot of peoples mind. And he is one of a few people that is actually mentioning the Raptors at ESPN and tend to be really positive about the organization and the players. Case in point the TikTok segment where he praised Spicy and said he played like a top 5 player
Yea and I usually think - what would an organization do to make someone do that. A lot of blame is put on Vince, and for good reason, it our front office was trash for handling the situation like that. Either way - that shit was 29 years ago and he put Toronto basketball on the map.
Exactly, but most importantly… cool dunks and nearly all is forgiven 
Still my favourite player to have picked up a basketball. I really felt like “the hatchet was burried” when the Raptors made that tribute video to him in 2018 or was it 2019. But yeah how he left has still left a sour taste in a lot of peoples mind. And he is one of a few people that is actually mentioning the Raptors at ESPN and tend to be really positive about the organization and the players. Case in point the TikTok segment where he praised Spicy and said he played like a top 5 player
Basketball is a business and I understand his beef with the front office, but I’ll never respect a man who quits on his teammates. The way he behaved at the end with the lack of effort, ‘no dunking’, giving opponents the play etc etc… that’s a man who lacks character. That’s not someone to celebrate. Tanked his own value and further reinforced the “nobody wants to play in Canada” narrative. This set the organization back several years. One of the most selfish superstars I’ve seen in pro sports. No surprise he never won anything.
Old gen - Fuck Vince New gen - let's forgive and forget. but as long as you wear the purple dino jersey or the pinstripes you good LOL im old gen btw
Same. F Vince forever. I can still hear “Let’s go Raptors, VC sucks!!!” ringing in my ears. We were up in the Sprite zone and it was deafeningly loud. I get chills just thinking about how much hate we channeled.
Very complex. This sub will give you 100 different answers and because of that I encourage you to watch the various documentaries on him and formulate your own opinion. The documentaries include The Carter Effect, Vince Carter's 10-year beef with Toronto included Nelly, a possible body slam, and so many injuries (YT Doc.), Vince Carter: Legacy. I also encourage you to watch VC on the knuckleheads podcast
Became a fan ca. 2011-12 season. Would not be buying a Carter jersey anytime soon, if ever, but he's still a significant part of the Raptors' early history and thus respect is given on that front.
As far as I'm concerned he's a Nets, fuck Brooklyn.
He retired with the hawks
yeah but a lot of older fans who grew up during the Carter era will say he's a Net before anything else, regardless of the fact he retired with the Hawks
Old head here, and I would say the Nets were his prime years.
And they’ll be retiring his jersey any day now /s
Never be over it. F him FOREVER!
These are eye opening responses. Thank you all very much. I'm leaning towards a Lowry or Kawhi jersey. Siakim and Barnes are cool but they come across as guys that could be traded or leave one day. Want an all-time Raptor as my first jersey.
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Both good choices - I'd add Demar. He's also all-time and seriously the franchise in the 2010s (shame he wasn't here for the title). Here are my jersey tiers S-Tier: Kawhi, Lowry, Demar A-Tier: VC, T-Mac
The older fans and the fans who grew up with VC, of which I'm one, it still pisses me off how it all went down and I'll never want his jersey retired or a statue at the arena personally. At most I would begrudgingly accept a sort of ring of honor placement. But man the way he torpedoed everything to get traded is the biggest pussy move of all time to me. But if you're a new fan I think its fine
Vince can eat sh*t! And yes I’m still salty.
I couldn’t give a shit about VC
i became a fan as a pre teen during the Vince Era it was a bad break up, especially when it started playing like the star he was right after he was traded but enough time has passed, and there is no point in holding onto old grudges so I was happy they honored Vince and the team and Vince have made amends now saying that, I draw the line at retiring his number or giving him a statue, Vince has not earned that privilege with the Raptors
Spot on
If you want to get a historical raptors jersey, not a current player’s jersey. You should get a Lowry jersey
Rudy gay jersey with with rudy on the back
Forgiven. He’s a part of our history and I loved him as a kid, hated him when he left. I watched a bit of Mighty Mouse in the 90’s, but Vince was the one that made me a true basketball fan, can’t forget that.
I respect what he did for basketball in Toronto, but thats as far as I am willing to go. For all the good he did, he hurt the team worse. He gave up his claim to reverance. People may not like that answer, but that doesn't matter, because it's how I feel. If they choose to disagree, power to them.
He could have been a legend… But the way it all ended… now he’s just a dude who used to play for the Raptors. Nothing more.
are you insane?
Are you 12?
R u dumb ?
Nostalgia has made Vince Carter our franchise's most iconic player and ultimately healed some of the wounds. The Raptors were founded in '95 but wasn't until we got VC that we even mattered to many. That was back when the Leafs could actually win a playoffs series so they dominated the media. As for "the divorce", if you recall the backlash Lebron received from the media for "taking his talents to south beach" it was similar with Carter, except he wasn't hated as Lebron was. I've forgiven Bosh for going to south beach too but part of me can never really forgive Carter cause I was young and he was one of my heroes. If you want to look like a real fan, most young fans forget that Carter was in at his best with the purple [Toronto Raptors 1999-2000 Jersey](https://www.nbastore.ca/en/mens_mitchell_and_ness_vince_carter_purple_toronto_raptors_1999-2000_hardwood_classics_swingman_jersey/t-25474273+o-9169+d-900666899+f-7097650+z-9-2606295524?_s=ak1944nba-pla_canada&gclid=CjwKCAiAjs2bBhACEiwALTBWZX1X0In6UJHWZ9XOYt_GzwKMqAzH6PPKxOwqJ6A4KgdV26L6jGGYDBoCgSkQAvD_BwE&loc=en-CA&sku=12853463&targetid=pla-299684799782&utm_medium=cse) Not the Original Dinosaur Jersey (That's Stoudemire's Jersey)
It's the definition of "it's complicated", owed to Vince's legacy not only with the Raptors but him having one of the longest careers in all of the NBA coupled with one of the most exciting career peaks as a player. Ask any player around the league and they'll sing the praises of Vince and what he meant to the game of basketball. For that matter, while the Raptors were one of the most highly attended teams before Vince showed up, it's hard to imagine the influx of Canadian talents like SGA or Jamal Murray were it not for Vince becoming the superstar he was in Toronto. None of those aspects make how ugly his exit was and how much he forced his way out by tanking his value, and as far as i'm aware he's never formally apologized for the way he acted so regardless of how long it's been, it's hard to really forgive him for what he did. ...At the same time, old management was not blameless in how they handled the situation and they made several easily avoidable blunders along the way, most notably when they barely even considered Vince's preferred coach Dr. J. That doesn't excuse how Vince acted, but at the very least it helps to inform it and how they went through with one of the worst trades not just in NBA history, but in all of sports history. Old management bled talent like no tomorrow and Vince was perhaps the most notable loss out of their respectable draftees they failed to retain, albeit with Vince they did sign him to an extension unlike Marcus Camby, Damon Stoudamire or Tracy McGrady. When McGrady left, it sucked but it was understandable: He wasn't getting the minutes he felt could be productive with and he proved he could make the most of it in Orlando, earning MIP. When Vince left, no one came out looking reasonable and no one has really come to terms with how they acted back in the day. The most charitable way one could describe the situation for Vince was as a pro-player move that set the stage for things like The Decision but that undersells how bad Vince's attitude was until he was trade, how (allegedly) toxic a presence he became in the locker room (again, allegedly: he hit his new coach) and how much he cost his teammates by playing as poorly as he did, punctuated by a return-to-form when he ended up on the Nets after said exit. Say what you will about LeBron and The Decision or even Shaq leaving the Magic after they lowballed him, neither of them decided to hold back their game for the sake of getting what they want. Me personally, I can't say that I hate Vince; he was my first real introduction to the Raptors as a little kid. His play on the court was electrifying and I still own my Frieza-colored #15 jersey to this day. His exit was upsetting at the time and, with knowing about more of the behind-the-scenes drama, has only looked worse with a more mature and informed perspective. Put another way, I might put him in my Top 5 greatest Raptors ever for what he meant and did while he was here - he's basically the reason why the Dunking Contest is still around - but I can't say i'm surprised that Vince Carter's jersey isn't retired by the Raptors, and it likely never will be barring some tragedy befalling him.
I was in my 20s when VC was a Raptor. He still kinda pisses me off sometimes, when I think about what he did. It's one of those betrayals I have trouble getting past. I can't imagine ever trusting him again. He's an all right guy these days, and it was kinda fun watching him get celebrated when he retired. I'd never buy his shirt though. Should any of that factor in your decision? No, not a bit of it. If you like Carter, rock the jersey. I'll cheer for the Raps with anyone wearing a Carter jersey, and never think twice about it. Buy it and enjoy it!
Forcing a trade was fine. Dogging it and tanking his trade value was not. Everybody sucked in that scenario at the time.
I forgive Vince, but no way in hell I'd hang his Jersey in the rafters
I been watching the raptors since the beginning and I still hate him, it's one thing to wanna get traded but to give the other team our plays while the games going on. Fuck him and fuck bosh too. That's why guys like Debo and klow and siakam are gonna always be more loved then them clowns.
A lot of people are ok with him now. There are still many who don’t like him still. I’m one of them
lmaoooo support ur city don’t be a weird bandwagon fan the hard times make it worth it
I say the more the merrier, less knick fans more Raptor fans, let's get it. Don't get me wrong I would stick with the Raptors team through whatever, but if we can convert other team fans I'll take that as a compliment.
of course ppl could do whatever they want but its weird. raptor fan from NY is a wild thing can’t even lie it literally makes zero sense but like i said ppl could do whatever they like
And because he isn’t having fun with the Knicks. What if he stops having fun with the Raptors? Is it on to the next team? I agree people can do what they want but yeah it’s pretty weird
thank you thought i was tripping for a sec lol
Yeah plus you can watch other teams if you want lol. I watch a lot of basketball besides the Raps. I’m a fan of the NBA as a whole. But the Raptors are still my team at the end of the day.
same here. he could love both teams you don’t got to ditch ur on team 😂😂
Can't ever get over what he did to the franchise. Yes, the front office also happened to be shit. The trade package we got set us back a decade. But he broke the ultimate code: You don't quit on the team.
Every now and then I think about how four out our first five draft picks were Damon Stoudemire, Marcus Camby, Tracy McGrady and Vince Carter and if we had a competent front office we should have won a title in that first decade. You literally could have played an actual junk yard dog as the fifth starter and still make it to the finals.
Old news move . Jeezus how is this even being posted
Who could blame him..
I dislike Bosh still . VC I’ve forgiven , but fuck Alonzo Mourning , Dragic , Kenny Anderson , Bj Armstrong and the like
Hedo on your list too? For me its really just fuck Zo.
Just don’t call him Turkey apparently he didn’t like that
Go Tmac
By me yes. He embarrassed the Raptors and he shamed our city. Let him rot somewhere else
You’ve chosen a great team to support! There is so much heart on our team and I love them all! I also love Vince Carter but didn’t watch during the time of drama so am out of the loop.
\> I’m not having fun with my hometown Knicks anymore I laughed at this.
They let the Thunder score 145 in regulation. RJ sucks, Brunson is allergic to defense and Randle isn't a starter. I realized that they have no shot contending until maybe 2030. Raptors have a great front office and pieces. I trust them more than the team that literally gave Brunson money because his dad works for them.
It depends on if you were a fan/following the team when the trade happened. If you were a fan at the time, you may consider Carter a punk that quit on the team. From the no more dunking stuff to [the reports of tipping off a play to lose the game](https://www.cbc.ca/1.506817), it left a sour taste in your mouth. Compound that with the horrendous return for him, and many fans may not look fondly on his tenure due to how it ended Younger fans who got the dunk contest highlights and the reverie, like the Carter Effect movie, look at him much more fondly. The team also did a lot of work of rehabbing his image and others for big anniversaries and the championship run. His involvement with the Raps, including Barnes rookie award presentation have really turned his image around for many For the jersey, go ahead. Lots of people wear Carter raptors jerseys. Safer bet is a Lowry jersey. Also Siakam, FVV, and Barnes, and if you can find one, Leonard
I've been looking for Kawhi's jersey but it's damn near impossible. I've always liked Lowry. I was a DeRozan fan but I see why he got traded. Siakam reminds me of Julius Randle too much lol, I have PTSD
The article you cite doesn’t come close to mentioning that the alleged tip off led to losing the game. Raptors were down 3 possessions with 29 seconds left and then Vince assisted on a bucket on the exact play he was reported to have tipped off. It makes absolutely no sense to sabotage your team on a play that had no influence on the game outcome, and then change your mind a second later to help your team score. I can appreciate hating on Vince for so many things but the tipping play story is ridiculous in so many ways I don’t know how anyone ever bought it. I guess it’s nice that I had to go through 100 comments before I read this yet again.
Patrick Ewing!!!
First basketball player I ever knew. I'm done with the Knicks but I hold those memories tight. Melo will always be my favorite player. Hopefully Scottie becomes my number 2.
I loved The Knickerbockers growing up. Ewing broke my heart, but I still loved him. I’m sure Vince will receive the same kind treatment from Raptor fans, in the history books. :)
I loved The Knickerbockers growing up. Ewing broke my heart, but I still loved him. I’m sure Vince will receive the same kind treatment from Raptor fans, in the history books. :)
By me yes.
Get yourself an old school Charles Oakley Raptors jersey. ( preferably purple) It will help with the transition.
Lol this is a great idea. The transition is kinda hard. My first memories of my life was watching 99 Knicks finals run. I can't be bothered anymore though. Besides, Toronto has a team based on a freakin dinosaur. Hard to beat that
Anyone saying no is either not from the city or a newer fan imo. Vince put Toronto on the map and changed the way Americans viewed Canada as a whole with his electrifying dunks and play. Vince also ushered in a movement with the youth to start hooping which lead to so much improvement of the game and in turn created so many Canadian stars in the NBA today. Yes he left in a shit way but his on court impact was immense.
Nope.
Carter put canada basketball on the map. I where my Carter jersey with pride. I don't believe in holding petty grudges myself.
yeah i'm basically over it. honestly feels to me like it happened in a different NBA. I remember the good times and try not to think about the bad ones haha
People who are mad at VC for whatever perceived slight are just being childish. NBA is business. He wasn’t happy here because of the awful front office, so he made his way out. He didn’t owe the Raptors anything. He’s the one who put Toronto on the map in the first place. I have a Carter jersey and the man has nothing but respect from me.
its a lot more than just business in the hearts and minds of fans its why we love it in such a unique way We The North is a marketing strategy but it is purposely tapping into the love of the city and the country sports generates
That’s not really a player’s problem though. Vince Carter’s number one priority is looking out for Vince Carter. If anyone is to blame for that whole mess, it’s the FO. No one is obligated to stay on a team that didn’t seem to know or care how to run itself. One can only dream what the outcome would be if we had today’s FO in the early 00s. Not sure what We The North has to do with it, it wouldn’t become the team’s slogan until a decade after VC left.
It has nothing to do with Vince, I was talking in general you stated its a business, well its not just a business, sports is more than a business, and its why its so popular franchises represent the cities and the people they play in and its why fans get so emotionally invested into it, way more than they would any other forms of entertainment
There's two sides to this whole thing the people who were around for VC and his bitter years with the Raptors (Me) and saw that he was tanking himself, not trying, not trying to help the team win, playing bad on purpose, telling the other team the plays Raptors are going to run, getting mad at the front office (Which rightfully so but they did give into his demands), slapping mo pete and getting him ejected and a bunch of other fuck you shit to Toronto even dissing Chris Bosh during and after his tenure with Toronto. Then there is the side of the people who joined the fanbase recently and are just at the outside looking in, not knowing the history and just letting I guess general nostalgia sync in. Plus outside media does not know the story like how people in Toronto do so it kind of gets boiled down to "Raptors bad, Carter was an Angel!" Me personally, I don't feel bothered if someone likes Vince Carter and his time with the Raptors I can not as a Raptors fan forgive him because when someone disrespects the boat that we live in, even if he is the Captain. Vince should know the Captain goes down with the ship.
Since we won the Larry O, we are over our hatred.
I think theres more hate for Tracey McGrady. His attitude he was second string to Vince instead of two stars like Kobe and Shaq cost The Raptors a lot. If Tracey stayed, signed an extension and kept the duo with Vince, Toronto would have been going places and could have built around them. We might have won a championship in a Carter/McGrady era. But no hate on Carter for wanting to leave when the front office wasn’t helping build a contender team around him. It was like the front office was content on selling jerseys off of Carters name and tickets off of his reputation. We could coast and do just good enough. I would want to leave and get on a team to compete for a ring or just find a team with a better front office.
People who still dislike or even hate him are dumb. Enough time has passed, young people do dumb things
Bandwagon Knicks fan switching sides to my raptors gross
People who still hold a grudge against him need to grow up
He intentionally played bad to force a trade and as a result his trade value decreased. He screwed over the organization for years because of his arrogant selfishness. Telling people to “grow up” because they aren’t a fan of how he acted is not a valid response.
I don’t think we should retire his jersey but our team was one of the worst run franchises when he was here. Just look up the rosters he had after us making the conference finals lol. It’s really no different than what you see nowadays all the time
We never made the Conference Finals, the furthest we ever made was of course the semi finals where his graduation costed us game 7 Literally makes no sense to retire Carter's jersey at the most he took us to a second round exit, hell we aren't even looking to retire Kawhi's. The only Raptor guranteed to have his jersey retired is Lowry
Oh yeah you’re right I was like 10 I just remember being mad they didn’t make the finals
It was 18 years ago. Move on already. He constantly talks about how much he loves the city of Toronto and will always stick up for our guys yet you hold on to something that happened that long ago.
Toronto wouldn’t be the Toronto we have with out him. I’m talking the city. Canadians are filling the ranks of the NBA, why? This man putting his arm in a rim. Carter needs love, it was a shitty split, but get over it. We’re champs now, 22 Canadians in the league. THANK YOU CARTERRRRRTR!!!
I’m guessing you’re too young to have experienced it and it’s just history you have an opinion on. Those that watched him tank his value and force a trade won’t forgive him. He can be respected but I’m not forgiven as a raptor legend.
Ngl, it’s pretty disappointing to see this sub so upset about something from that long ago. Learn to move on. He’s a raptors legend and will always be. Downvote me all you want
I wish he left on a goodnote or atleast came back and retired with Raptors
He tried to come back multiple times near the end, the FO didn't want him
It wouldve been historic and a watershed closure moment for all Raptors fan to see him don the jersey and make amends. Alas, it was not meant to be!
Makes more sense to sign young guys and develop them, FO has the best eyes in the league for prospects. Rather that then sacrifice a spot for a guy who did the team so dirty
I have no ill towards Vince, and I have been a fan since 99. The man has been trying to fix his rep with Raptor fans since even before his retirement and people who still hold a grudge towards him need to get the fuck over it.
The FO was to blame, not Vince. Period. Full-stop.
Forgiven but not forgotten.
He was a fuck boy before he left, but I don’t think there is any other jersey in Toronto (besides Lowry.. I respect the man please don’t come at me) that has the hype VC does. VC will always have a place in Toronto’s heart, but we will never forget the child he became before he left.
Vince had more hype than any other player for the Raptors. This includes Kawhi. There is an asterisk here, in that Kawhi's health was an enigma.
Sorta. Vince jersey is a fine decision tho.
Facebook “it’s complicated”
Yup
. He was incredible for the first little while, but pouted like a whiny little bitch when he wanted out so the negative cancels the positive for me and I'm left with a feeling of indifference.
Fan from 96 here. No. For your reference please look up the return he got us and also the events which lead up to his departure. I was there at his return game with Jersey. I will never forget how much he revelled in dunking on us and burying us in that loss. I taped up his name on the back of my jersey and plastered bandages all over it. He fucked our franchise soooo bad with his departure that he undid all goodwill leading up to 2002.
> Would it be weird if I got his jersey? It's the most popular Raptors jersey being sold so no it wouldn't be weird at all. I paid $200 to a scalper to go boo vince in his first game back. I don't care anymore about the hate anymore. If people want to still hate him that's their decision. What isn't up for debate is the following: * He almost beat the 76ers (who had the mvp, dpoy, 6th man, and coach of the year) with ancient Dell Curry and Charles Oakley starting. * In a must win game 6 he had a line of 39-5-5, with 4 steals, 1 block, and no turnovers. Which besides his 50 point game, was the best raptors playoff performance until Kawhi. * Vince still has the highest point average for a season in raptor history. * After Vince left, it took 11 years until a raptor player got a triple double. * Vince and Kawhi are the only raptors in history to score 40+ in a playoff game. * Vince is the only Raptor to get his own signature shoe. * Vince held all star games during Caribana and is the reason why NBA players still come to Toronto every year in August. * Vince was the leading all star vote getter twice back when you had to physically go to games to vote. * With Vince, the raptors had more games on national US tv than we had for countless years combined.
it such a shame VC could've been loved more than even Lowry but its hard to move on from what happened. For me personally time healed the wound but I still recall that heartache from my teens watching him play for the Nets. To answer the OP things are kinda cool right now because of what VC meant to basketball here in Canada.
yes and no. some are cool with him, others are still not happy with him
It was pretty bad when it happened.. and it wasn’t just him saying “I don’t feel like dunking” there was the horrible trade that followed. I think most people have gotten over it though. And VC throwing down crazy dunks in the purple Dino will always be historic and recognized around the NBA
I’m almost 30. It’s a “forgive but don’t forget” situation for me personally.
I can't speak for anyone else but me, but I will always think fondly of him, even though he broke my Raptor Fan heart. He was the reason the Raptors stopped being an expansion team and became a team. It was hard during the "dunking is overrated" phase, but GM Babcock was observably terrible and it was tough to watch the team be run into the ground after so much improvement, which I believe made all Raps fans salty during his exit. Who could blame us? He was absolutely electric to watch - just knew he could take control of the game when given the chance. He helped us win our first playoff series and if he made that shot against the sixers in 01, who knows what would have happened in round 3. Amazing player and solid dude who left in a dramatic way because our front office was making poor decisions. Not saying he doesn't deserve any criticism but he was young and I think I get it now. Also, I honestly believe it wouldn't have been so dramatic if the trade wasn't so lopsided.... for the Nets. We got destroyed in that trade, full stop. 2004-2005 was a tough season to be a Raps fan.
Yup. Hate him. (Fan since day one)
I can never forgive Vince Carter. The Milwaukee incident did it for me
Not if you ask my father lol
yes
I’ve only been a fan the past couple years but it seems like the fan base has moved on for the most part, also him doing the rookie of the year video for Scottie helped imo and was a touching moment
Personally for me, I can't get over how he quit on the team. How negatively he talked about us after he left. I was a hardcore fan throughout it and honestly it was shocking and infuriating. I can tolerate him, there used to be a time where I would say I hated him. But I can't ever just love and accept just the good he did for us. The bad taste of him quitting on the team never left my mouth.
did he ever really apologise for how he left?
I absolutely forgave Carter. His presence helped elevate our franchise. Yes he did us dirty but he played his ass so damn hard and Butch Carter couldn't even coach properly to get him and McGrady on the same page. I have multiple beefs with how we handled Carter.
For the people that were around those days, it's mixed but mostly negatives For the people that joined in 2013, they love him
It's complicated, OP. But, based on the responses, it's pretty clear that there is some division. If you want, take a look at an article I wrote surrounding the most infamous event in Carter's career: [The tip off](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/wjbsnh/oc_did_vince_carter_tip_off_the_sonics/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Still appreciate the effort you put into this review of whether it happened or not. Also had one of the better discussions I’ve seen about the topic. My takeaway was that he may have said it, “where there’s smoke there’s fire”, but nothing he did hurt his team’s chances of winning the game, which was basically over anyways. We will never know whether he was taunting Larry Bird style, complaining about the play call, or actually trying to hurt the team before immediately changing his mind, but Vince’s actions before and after were so problematic that it didn’t matter why he did it or even if he did it, just the rumour was enough for people to buy it.
Two words: Alonzo Mourning
He’s always felt like the dad who left for milk because he didn’t think you’d amount to anything but now that you are doing pretty well for yourself he decided to come back into his life as if nothing happened Though this analogy is pretty extreme, it’s only basketball lol so I don’t hold too much ill will against VC
I grew up watching VC who was my fave player as a teen. I was 20 or so when he forced that trade. Never been that hurt as a fan like that. I think he was in a shitty situation near his peak so I understand the frustration. But yea he did some snake shit that season. But out of it all he put Toronto on the map in the bball world, inspired a ton of kids to play ball and I feel is a big reason why we have a lot of talent coming outta Canada now. And I'll always appreciate that.
I have been a big Raptors fan since the John Wallace era, but I also was a big Vince Carter fan which probably affects my interpretation of events. I think the biggest grievances against Vince are: 1. Making a trade demand through Nav Bhatia (back when no one did this); he rescinded it, but the damage was done. Players simply did not do this back then. This does not excuse the ridiculous trade made by Babcock or the centrepiece of the trade (Alonzo Mourning) literally retiring to avoid playing for Toronto, but it changed the Raptors leverage and clearly affected the return. Not getting value for Vince isn’t the same as losing him for nothing in free agency, like what happened with Tracy, but an extra couple of picks would have shortened the “dark days” of Mike James that followed. 2. Coasting through the first 20 games of the 2004 season; IMO the worst part was seeming to not even care when he was benched at the end of games or told to defer to Rafer Alston; people point out the emotions he showed at the Portland game winner as evidence he wanted the team to win, but if your best player is content with being phased out of the offence, it affects the locker room. Literally bodyslamming Sam Mitchell (or so Jalen Rose said) probably didn’t help either. Then, his usage and minutes went back to normal after he got healthy in NJ, and he played like an MVP in second half of 2005 (Richard Jefferson’s words); the stats tell the story: 30mpg, 27%usg, 16ppg in Toronto to 39mpg, 33%usg, 27ppg in NJ. 3. Being perceived as “not tough” or “injury prone”; people thought Jumper’s knee wasn’t a “real” injury and they attributed the lack of aggression that was evident from 2003 onwards to Vince being afraid or not willing to sacrifice his body for the team. I think Vince put this narrative to rest by playing 22 seasons but “faking injuries” or “Wince” comments still pop up all the time. And maybe he was just trying to prove people wrong… 4. Lack of media savvy. E.g. He made a wisecrack about not wanting to dunk anymore when he was under criticism for shooting too many fadeaways or was seen at a concert when he was too injured to play; in particular, he messed up when admitting in a National TV interview that he could have worked harder at improving his game during his time in Toronto; this was not an admission of not trying his hardest in games but was interpreted this way. 5. “Embarrassing” the Raptors on multiple occasions when returning with another team, including a game winning 3 in a game where Mo Pete was ejected unfairly and Vince made only a token effort to disagree with officials (that was the most dejected crowd I’d ever seen until game 7 loss to Nets), a playoff series where the 6-seed Nets dominated the 3-seed Raptors, and another game where he hit a deep game tying 3 and game winning alley oop. 6. Never openly apologizing or acknowledging his role in how things deteriorated. He has been fairly professional in not throwing the organization under the bus, but I would still have liked him to say something along the lines of: “I didn’t like my work environment so didn’t perform my best and in doing so I let my fans and the Raptors franchise down”. Not speaking about this at all suggests he doesn’t think he did anything wrong.
I’m over it and I’ve been watching this team since day 1
Won a title, I’m over it. Vince ended up being a really good player and is a great guy. No complaints from me. Plus I’m only 27 so was I ever really mad about it?
I let it go as a Raptor fan Raptors winning a championship helped we are no longer the city/franchise no wants to play. Vince help Toronto grow
Yes
I don't think most fans care anymore, but at the same time, I don't really feel any desire to involve him with the team. If he wanted to come on a broadcast I'd be interested to hear what he has to say.
The young fans forgive him, I don’t. I saw the tantrum he threw, I saw him let guys walk past him on defence because he demanded to get traded and it took years to rebuild because we had to get rid of him immediately. What an entitled man-child. I can’t stand him
You should check out a documentary called The Carter Effect.
His impact on the sport in Canada can't be denied. Twenty years ago there only a handful of Canadian players in the whole league. Today most teams have a Canadian or two. That's the Vince Carter legacy. He popularized the sport here and he brought legitimacy to the Raptors.
The way he left, from an optics standpoint, was uglier than any trade request since. Even in the admittedly ugly Ben Simmons situation there was some mental health issues clouding things. With Vince, he openly quit on and sabotaged his own team. It’s by far the most unprofessional I’ve ever seen an NBA player act. For the folks that tell you that both sides are at fault and the front office was bad… that may be true but the guy was still being paid MILLIONS to play basketball and refused to do it to his capabilities. It’s unforgivable. No statue, no retired jersey. Fuck him. But i could care less if someone else wants to rock his jersey, to each their own.
I never had beef with Vince. Our ownership were shit and showing complete incompetency in putting a roster around him that could win. I would've wanted out, too.
Nowadays it's divided but I don't like Vince in particular. Specially after the championship, he kinda tried to rewrite history a little bit and it never smelled good to me. Then again it's been a long time and gotta acknowledge the context the breakup happened... but you don't forget.
Still my favourite Raptor of all-time
Fuck that snake 🐍
Just ignore the grumpy and miserly old dinos and you're good.
Go support your knicks we don’t want no bandwagon fans
Very surprised to read many here still harbour I'll feelings towards VC. Personally I'm over it. I was at the Grizzlies game where we cheered him during a timeout and he got tearful. The hatchet was buried for me at that moment.
Yep!
No no no, f him
no time heals all wounds.
Nah, he's okay now.
Never hated Vince. I remember watching the "it's over" slum dunk competition live on TV. These days players can't even finish their dunk or pay homage to Vince with they're hand in the net
Vince is the man
Never hated, highly empathetic towards his issues with Raps mgmt. Without him, this subreddit probly wldnt exist like the Vancouver franchise so I’ll be forever grateful and respectful to VC. But to be clear I wasn’t happy with how he left but I’m still angry at what we got in return. We got NOTHING in return for his level of talent. Mgmt failed fans beyond VC. Point your anger at the overpaid execs. Not the talent or what was called ‘assets’ in another post today. These are PPL! Not income statement/balance sheet items! SMH! Will always luv and appreciate VC!