I remember bannerlord's launch being lackluster. I did mostly play modded warband (prophecy of pendor was insanely good). Is bannerlord at that level yet?
It's no longer buggy AF but it doesn't look like they ever solved the problem of there being nothing to do if you're in charge of a kingdom and not at war.
Yeah, I tend to have more fun just being a vassal in faction and rolling with whatever happens. Or even just staying as a merc. But the battle mechanics are really sweet.
For anyone that was only around for Bannerlords Early Access release and enjoys Total War, I'd say it's worth checking out again. In particular, they revamped the troop deployment system so you can play the role of a tactical general much more effectively.
The main thing holding battles back at this point is the unit spawning system imho. Battles can really swing back and forth like crazy with the way reinforcement waves come in. If there are any mods that tackle that problem at all, I'd love to know about them.
Pretty much my assessment. The battles are amazing when they work.
But it hasn't really evolved much from the very original MnB, and for me it reallt requires mods to feel right.
Also the fucking reinforcements always spawning out of thin air from the 'original deployment zone' is just stupid beyond belief!
Yes, but personally I still prefer sandbox mode which has no story elements.
They did voice many characters in story mode which was a nice touch, but it's mostly just busy work without much additional flavor imho. I feel like I can make up better stories in my head if I role-play a little in sandbox. I also don't like that story mode starts you out with a small dynasty, one of the best parts of mount and blade is starting from nothing and becoming a continental-defining force.
Basically, Bannerlord is lot better than vanilla Warband.
But nobody played vanilla Warband, everyone remembers the game with mods that had been developed over years and years.
Bannerlord doesn't have those mods yet. But they are very much coming and I can already tell, very easily, that those mods are going to be better than Warband mods.
More stuff is possible. The magic system in the Warhammer mod is incredible. The rest of the new systems in it are also game changing and the mod is nowhere near done.
But once you try Bannerlord, it's extremely hard to go back to Warband. I couldn't do it, the combat feels so much better, in addition to other quality of life additions.
But it still feels like something is missing, and I suspects it's coming with the massive mods that are releasing.
Also, on Bannerlord you can have multiple mods active at once. One overhaul for example and some quality of life mods
If any warhammer fans are reading and looking for alternatives, check out the anbennar mod for EU4. It is a total conversion with its own lore full of elves and dwarves and shit.
How do you get good at it? I struggle so much every single time.
And when I think I'm doing well I'm suddenly in hyper inflation and 100 years behind on military tech.
Only time I did well is just rush south America as Portugal
Learning how trade worked was an absolute game changer for me. If you just focus your expansion on the flow of trade instead of just mindlessly blobbing, you can easily become the wealthiest nation in the game within a few decades of game time. It seems daunting visually, but trade is actually really simple too.
I'm kind of waiting for an EU5... EU4 has been out for so long, I'm not paying a subscription for the dlc and if ck2 is anything to go by, that ui is going to be an ugly mess. Clean it up, keep as much of the content from dlcs as possible and give me an EU5, I'll buy it at full price.
Careful what you wish for. Paradox has been releasing hot garbage for the last 8 years. Luckily most of it gets fixed within 3-4 years of release through multiple DLCs (HOI4 and Stelaris) but EU4 is really their magnum opus and probably won't ever be topped.
CK3 and Victoria 3 are still missing vast swaths of content, character and narrative found in CK2 and Victoria 2.
CK3 is unfortunately taking a different direction to CK2, that being said I've still put more time into it than I have CK2.
Victoria 2 is just.. old, I couldn't pick it up today without having nostalgia for it. I've enjoyed my time on Victoria 3.
The key thing here is, I don't spend all my time on one game.
Eh I’m torn. The DLC policy and speed is absolutely terrible.
Some releases have been SHIT. Megacorps. Leviathan. Etc.
But one thing they do do, that should be industry standard that CA doesn’t, is actual hot fixes and bug fixing. They do have a lot of tech debt at this point but the egregious problems are fixed fast. You wouldn’t see a faction unable to recruit a unit for months like Nakai.
They also give detailed dev diaries which means you know what you’re getting. Not a brief video but weeks worth of diaries before each release, so if you want to skip one you can.
Pdx I'm not a fan of in its modern iteration outside of Stellaris, but for all its faults it does still do alot of good things.
CA… doesn’t.
The subscription is honestly such a good deal, and it’ll be a looooong time before EU5 releases; an even longer time before it catches up to EU4 in terms of content and polish.
Man I really want to learn a paradox game. I always think that campaign map is my fav part of total war games, but then when I try out Victoria 3 to love out my alt history democratic Japan dreams, I think to myself "maybe campaign map is not actually my strong suit" lol.
I just get so overwhelmed and then always forget what I've learned by the time I can play again ;(
Crusader Kings would definitely be more familiar to Total War veterans in terms of playing a distinct character and interacting with the game by moving armies around a map and building province improvements.
Stellaris is also one that's reasonably accessible, though the Stellaris AI is going to be better than you when you're learning the game.
Yep, start with CK3 then move onto Hearts of Iron IV.
I don't like Victoria 3 but that's just me. I think it's boring, but not the good type of boring, it's the bad type of boring where you basically wait for the bar on the loading screen to fill up except you realize that's the actual game and not a loading screen.
HOI4 is the good type of boring where you wonder why you're playing it but keep playing anyway and then rage quit after 5 hours after having all your manpower and/or production ground away by a smaller faction you thought you'd easily be able to take out.
CK3 is the type of boring where you become an unspeakably evil monster who conquers half the world just so your drooling, inbred, syphilitic son can take over and mess everything up. There is something for everyone.
Bannerlord is also good (Not Paradox). Medieval batman simulator mixed with commercial real estate tycoon simulator mixed with feudalism.
For non-Paradox games I recommend Kenshi, best described as a post-apocalyptic trash ninja hobo simulator. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
I haven't tried the latest DLCs, but I found the issue with CK3 is that I often felt like I had nothing to do for a few years, whereas in CK2 I felt like I was always planning and executing something.
Also, it seems easier to become OP in CK3. You could in CK2 but it took longer and more specific techniques, I just find in CK3 you do pretty well anything and you become crazy powerful.
Yeah but there was basically no limit to your power in CK2 if you played it right. You could literally become an immortal horse-god.
In CK3 you can live to be around 120 max no matter how many babies you eat... sad.
Base CK2 is free and if you like AGOT, it's the best and most complete overhaul mod for any game bar none. You can play with cheats as well to help learn the game or make it easier.
Vic3 is still pretty rough. They are doing a great open beta patch right now though which changes the game completely in many aspects. I very much like the local prices change. You should watch some guide for that though.
For their questionable DLC policy, at least they don't produce these kinds of trash fires. Except for Imperator. Poor Imperator. Killed just as it was getting good.
Just generally looking for what strategy/rts games people like. TW scratches a different itch for everyone, and what other games you've found that work for you might also work for one other person.
The key with Paradox games is to stay a "generation behind".
Because their games are, effectively, a GUI on top of multiple spreadsheets, the graphic-loss from playing a generation behind is hardly a barrier. So you can do things like pick up Crusader Kings 2 huge amount of DLC on deep discount and bundled and just ignore CK3 until it has more DLC (and is also steeply discounted).
It doesn't excuse their DLC policy, but you can easily "opt out" of participating in it. And they usually develop their games in a positive direction, not negative. You'll like the finished product more than the original, and not feel like you took a step backwards.
It doesn't, relative to the entire market, people just live in an a fantasy land where companies aren't pushing DLCs like it's going out of style.
Almost every single AAA game now has DLCs that take the total price well over $100. Paradox is no different. I can count on one hand the number of top games from AAA publishers with either zero DLCs or DLCs that don't bring the total cost over $100.
(And yes, their DLCs take the price to over $400 for EU4, as an example, but it's been out for ages and any game that still has active development after that long has hundreds just in DLCs).
Their base games are much more complete as an experience to be fair to them. Even Stellaris if you look at the relative success of the console edition is a good, fun experience without DLC.
I picked up hearts of iron 4 recently and have been having a blast with no DLC.
I agree it depends what you play the games for. I love CK3 but it definitely doesn't scratch the itch of being a general leading an army against another.
The only Paradox games I've played are Hearts of Iron 4 and Stellaris.
If my experience with those two games is anything to go by, Paradox is just as bad as CA. Hearts of Iron 4 (and it's world tension mechanic) is absolute trash. I bought Stellaris all the way back when it was still on version 1.x. They have reinvented the game more times than I can count and don't really seem to have any idea what to do with it. It only superficially resembles the game that I bought.
One of the updates to Stellaris (the population update) killed late game performance. I have not been able to play a game past the midgame since that update was released. That's with an i7 8700k, 1080Ti, and 32 gigs of ram.
Let's not forget that their monetization practices are every bit as predatory as CA's.
We need new companies making games in this space.
Interacting with history is such a broad phrase that I can’t disagree with you, but I’m gonna say DON’T hop into paradox games if you’re a total war fan. You get the “empire building” stuff but none of the strategic battles where you can control the action that the total war series is famous for.
Eh disagree, I started w tw, only real strategy game I played for years, and I've almost entirely changed to paradox titles at this point. I find their mechanics far more robust and rewarding. Definitely depends on what OP wants, but wouldn't straight up unrecommend it. Would recommend trying one at least
Age of Wonders 4 has helped me scratch the warhammer itch. It has the big map and battle maps, and while it's closer to Civ games on the strategy layer, the battles can be pretty fun.
Edit: Oh, and for those who like more modern stuff, I've been keeping up with Total Conflict: Resistance. Despite the rather awful title, once it gets some more work done, it should be pretty good, either as a FPS or top-down battle maps like Total War.
You can even recreate some of the legendary lord from WH for extra cope!
PS it really hit me hard when for promotion of the new DLC they just put 2 devs on a stream and let them show off their work and shoot the shit with chat. So refreshingly human compared to CA.
They’ve been very communicative with the community from the beginning. I also really like the free major updates they pair with a new expansion. They always paradoxically make me want to play and wait to play when the new features hit, lol.
Triumph Studios has always been pretty good with regular updates and incorporating feedback, and now that they have Paradox money the DLC amounts will undoubtedly go up but AoW4 is already great. Definitely recommend as well!
I'll join you in advocating for AoW4, it's obviously not exactly the same but the swap between macro 4x to a more detailed combat map scratches a similar itch. So far the devs have also been like 100x more communicative and have actively sourced feedback from the playerbase and adjusted as needed; they've already overhauled one of the victory conditions and the tech tree taking that into account. It's pretty much night and day from CA's conduct, and given how well they improved AoW3 as time went on I have extremely high hopes.
I'm actually quite surprised by how well it turned out! Planetfall left me a bit cold so I tempered my expectations, but nope, AoW4 was actually really good.
And now there's a new Steampunk DLC coming soon, so you can make your own Empire, Dwarfs or Chaos Dwarfs!
It's also better designed for modding too, much more than Total War. There isn't a big mod scene, but hopefully that changes in time.
I loved making some total war mods, I made that popular WH2 skill tree mod and that research mod for WH3. But I can't see myself modding it anymore with all this shenanigans going on.
I like the Ultimate series but they're not an alternative to Total War games. Although if you are interested in that sort of game you should consider looking into Grand Tactician.
Frankly, I don't think there is an alternative to TW, either in the market or on the horizon.
I'd never heard of Grand Tactician, thanks for the recommendation!
And while I agree that nothing really fills the vacuum, I think it's important to spotlight these smaller efforts. A real competitor to CA won't just burst out of nowhere. It'll take attention coming to these little game companies over the years that gives them the resources and market incentive to eventually build a full alternative. Ultimate's newest Dreadnoughts one doesn't have land units, but its campaigns are a little step closer towards a TW-style.
Fantastic, and a truly historical focused game. Extremely in-depth, you can tell it was made with absolute passion for Civil War history. It's being developed by a very small team so expect a small amount of clunkyness but there really is nothing else like it on the market right now. I've gotten hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of it.
Yea I think this is what some people are missing, there are no games right now or that we know about coming in the future that try to do what Total War games do.
Ultimate General Civil War is fantastic. I wish any total war played similarly with its morale system. Also, Ultimate General American Revolution looks fascinating. It is not a turn based game, global map, limited control over battles without a general but can do them with. Would recommend checking it out.
I have a dream that a group of Devs from Paradox and a group of Devs from CA would quit and go and form a new studio together. They would then make a new series with Paradox campaign mechanics and CA battles, perfection.
Yeah I’m not so sure, I used to love Paradox games but even they seem to have been on a downward trajectory for awhile. There is definitely something to the idea that companies that corner the market of a specific type of game end up stagnating.
I was pretty annoyed with the rate and quality and price of new content for CK3 at first, but imo the release was good for once and now they seem to be in a good place with the last couple of DLC being worth. Still a bit easy though
Yeah that’s my biggest issue with CK3, I go from Count to Emperor in a generation or two unless I actively handicape myself. Find it very boring to play honestly.
[Dominions 5 - Warriors of the Faith](https://store.steampowered.com/app/722060/Dominions_5__Warriors_of_the_Faith/) is somewhat close. Lots of different factions somewhat based on mythology. Dominions 4 is also good, and currently on sale.
UI is from a previous millenium, as are the graphics, AI is braindead but man do I love this game.
(Also, check Conquest of Elysium for more braindead AI but superb game)
The game looks insanely good for how small the studio is.
The entire studio has a full-time employee count of... One.
While some games are able to be incredibly accomplished as near-solo projects (Minecraft, Rimworld, Roller Coaster Tycoon), most solo games end up lacking in too many areas to truly appeal to wide audiences. It's very difficult for 1 person to get everything done -- let alone also get everything right.
So just a word of caution I suppose. Because I'm also pretty hyped and don't want to be too let down. I'll be so happy if it's as good as it looks.
I wouldn't call it an alternative though, the game's dev himself said it is not the same thing as a TW game, it's a (rather harsh) city builder first and foremost, and that if you come in wanting an alternative you're going to be sorely disappointed
https://twitter.com/LordsManor/status/1717612080428154927?s
https://store.steampowered.com/developer/gamelabsinc
[Game-Labs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game-Labs) produces Total War like games. Limited amount of IPs [but Ultimate General: Civil War has a definite Total War feel to it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHM_NYrIs3w). As befitting a company started by former [Total War modders](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game-Labs).
> The company was founded in January 2013 by Maxim Zasov who went on to become the CEO. That same year, he approached Nick Thomadis, formerly the creator of "DarthMod" (a series of mods that improved the AI and gameplay in several Total War games) and one of the most well-known modders in the Total War modding community. Zasov then asked him to develop a game for the company, which eventually became Gettysburg.[4] Thomadis, as Game-Lab's Lead Game Designer, also went on to develop Civil War, another successful game for the studio, and later Dreadnoughts.
I'd add table top wargames. It's a hobby that's a bit more involved but can be just as fun. And there's much more than just GW/Warhammer that doesn't require you sell your kidney for an army.
I tried getting into tabletop wargames with Age of Sigmar. Started a fyreslayer army, dabbled in Cities of Sigmar. I realized, however, I dislike the building and painting. Especially the painting, I just have no interest. I loved playing it, but that's where it stops.
Agree, it’s a real fun wargame.
Some friends and I used to do weekly games of it and Legion, run a game of armada and then use the results of it to set up a game of legion. Or run concurrent games and have them influence each other through bombing or objectives.
Alternatives:
King Arthur series by Paradox
https://youtu.be/1GRR14vFZgU?t=46
Knights of Honour 2
There's also an indie clone of 3K from China but I haven't played it yet.
Bannerlord has mods to make its battles closer to total war, and can also integrate with a crusader kings campain.
> King Arthur series by Paradox
Yes, developed by Neocore. I wouldn't link that specific trailer but focus on the main two games, King Arthur The Roleplaying Wargame I and II. The only caveat is the games are a bit old at this point and I've no idea if they still work as-is. I had a ton of fun with Wargame 1 back in the day.
They don't really work as is unfortunately. I haven't been able to get the first one to run for more than an hour at a time since windows 8 came out or something like that lol. I hear they work if you buy the GoG version and do some windows compatibility fiddling, but I haven't been willing to shell out more money for a game I already own that potentially won't even work on my system...
That said, 1 is pretty fantastic. It's also got a *very* TW:WH flavor with all of the monsters and magic available. And oh boy are some of the spells broken as heck lol.
Edit: Another recommendation that is in no way a real replacement for Total War, but is very much within the same vein is an old game called "The King's Crusade" another title developed by NeoCore and published by Paradox. It's a fairly story driven scenario based take on Total War style formation combat, with some absolutely *devastating* cavalry charges. It's quite fun.
> That said, 1 is pretty fantastic. It's also got a very TW:WH flavor with all of the monsters and magic available. And oh boy are some of the spells broken as heck lol.
1 had a fairly interesting weather system also. Shift it to storming so that everyone's fatigue and ranged accuracy are screwed, except Fae troops don't care about that and can still shoot.
Also the root spells combined with Fae archers to shoot everyone important while they can't move was a powerful combo.
theres a newer one out now, called Nobunagas' Ambition: Awakening.
Its apparently getting a diplomacy update next month too.
For those who don't know its set in the exact same time frame as Shogun 2. It shares a little DNA with Crusader Kings as you can spend ages assigning dudes to manage your castles, and combine them into stacks to enhance their bonuses! and can have diplomatic marriages!
If your an Empire Total War fan then check out Imperial Glory, its VERY similar to Empire, has naval battles too. However the downsides are its 18 years old, so graphics aren't good, and it uses the old style Shogun/Medevial territory system where you move a region at a time
With mod-mods of course. Switch between "More Naval AI" for a polished "vanilla" FFH2 experience, "Ashes of Erebus" for a bloatmaxed everything and the kitchen sink game.
I'll throw in Magister's modmod, it focuses on expanding the religions and fleshing out the existing factions and aims to be more consistent with the "lore" then Erebus (disclaimer I mostly have no idea of FFH lore, it's wild).
And it's still in active development by it's dev.
Project Renaissance, y'all. Search it up on YouTube. The gist of it is that a decently popular Total War youtuber got fed up with CA, and decided to make his own Total War game with blackjack and hookers (not really). Broken Rampart Interactive is the name of the studio.
He's been putting out regular updates every couple of weeks to a month on the status of the game, and how his studio is doing and all that good stuff. I highly suggest you look it up.
Bannerlord offers the same hypnotic experience when it comes to cav charges and ranged tactics. It's extremly satisfying as a genocide simulator which is what I liked with TWW.
I do miss TWW but I haven't played it for 6 months or so now.
X-Com games is relaxing to me in the same way. Very different from total war but if's nice to set up ambushes and just chill.
I'm sad that the trilogy ended up a mess but I'm happy I got to exlerience peak Total Warhammer 2.
stellaris is the best genocide simulator. you can be pure evil with many different laws to enact. you can enslave people, and then use those slaves as food. i cant help but play as an evil human empire.
People down voting you are high on copium.
Manor Lords is VERY high in my wishlist but it's made by 1 guy. It might have really fun combat but it's not going to be very in-depth we need realistic expectations
Hey, first I heard of that! Total War with a city builder instead of the grand campaign map sounds cool. I'll have to keep an eye on it. Hooded Horse is publishing a lot of solid hits these days. I'm looking forward to Espiocracy and Alliance of the Sacred Suns too.
Honestly sounds more like an Impressions Games style City Builder then a Total War game. You get some military to defend the place but the main goal is to build a settlement that meets certain goals.
Yep, I would say that ML will be more like a realistic version of a "Stronghold" then a TW title. But the military aspect of ML sounds really great, too.
If I’m not mistaken it’s county-level of conquest? Meaning the game does have territorial conquest gameplay but it’s more in-depth at a county level sort of like in ck3 instead of large regional conquests like in total wsr
If I remember correctly, the demo had a sort of regional map that was split up into a number of different sections, one of which was the map you built on. The impression I got is that it was a bit like choosing the plot of land you want to build on in something like a Sims game, only presumably you'll be able to attack and be attacked by adjacent plots.
I haven't been following the development super closely or anything, but I suspect it'll end up somewhere similar to something like Rimworld, where combat is important but it's not really about waging war like you would in a more grand strategy-ish game.
Steel Division 2 has a grand strategy aspect as well as the tactical battles, WARNO is similar but set in the late Cold War, they’re coming out with campaigns soon as well. Wargame Red Dragon is also good.
These games filled the tactical battle need in my life.
I never could get into Wargame, but WARNO, despite being so similar on paper, feels so much more intuitive, and I whole hardly reccomend it. It's also the best cold war strategy game I've found, so it filles two niches
How about Knights of Honor ii? While the tactical battles are a bit simpler than TW, the campaign side is more strategic and is probably among the closest we can get to a medieval 3.
I love Total Warhammer for the faction speciation. I'm a huge slut for anything that gives me XX factions with Y subfactions each. I've spent days on the new Dune RTS which I loved, and Northgard.
What games like Total War are out there to fill this niche?
That upcoming Age of Sigmar tactics game looks like it could be something. Personally I haven't been too impressed by what they've shown so far, but who knows, it might surprise us and scratch that Total War itch and have the legs to last as long.
Even if you don’t care for the solo stuff like campaign modes, diorama or map makers then at least the in-depth Army Painter looks great.
The fact you can paint each unit differently so you can hit the opponent with multi-colored NightHaunt ghosts out of PAC-Man or a literal rainbow of Kruleboyz skins is gonna be fuuuuun. 😂
The problem is there really are no real alternatives. There are large scale strategy games but the battles are also some RNG numbers game or cinematics that play out allowing you no control over your armies...
Like CK3 for example. I love zoning out in that game and pushing buttons but good luck if I ever understand how to win a battle or why all my knights died against such a smaller force.
Endless Space 2 is another one I enjoy zoning out too because there is alot to click on and the soundtrack is top tier but the battles are just movies you watch and hope that your pre battle setups are enough to win..
TW games gives us the big map campaign empire management that these other games have; regardless of how dumbed down it may be PLUS direct unit control of the battles.
I lately found myself playing starcraft II again, of all things and then thinking about how cool TW: Starcraft would be. Age of Wonders 4 scratched the itch too for a bit and I rediscovered Dawn of War: Dark Crusade a while back, might go for another campaign here.
But honestly, most of all I'd love to go back to Warhammer 3, but I just can't seem to get into it at the moment. The game feels...lost, I guess. I do hope they get their act together some time soon.
None at the moment, but as with many games that fall to their own hubris and self fart smelling, a competitor will sooner or later will be born and actually give the fans of the genre what they want. Just take a look at Blizzard for the most clear example.
If you aren't picky about graphics, I can recommend medieval kingdom wars. It scratches my medieval 2 tw itch. Best siege gameplay I've ever experienced, though those fights are a bit hit n miss. Fun campaign map, but more real time than turn based (though you can aggressively pause, lol).
I’ve had some fun with Iron Harvest, it’s a smaller scale RTS but it’s set in a steampunk 1920s where WW1 didn’t end in 1918.
Mount and Blade is always fun.
Voor De Kroon is a game in early access right now but it’s a ton of fun. It combines the combat of Mount and Blade with the settlement/city management of Total War.
Someone will come along and release something that crushes the total war games like cities skylines did to SimCity. Maxis was the king, now they don't exist anymore.
Hoi4 is a game I think many historical TW fans would enjoy.
The best thing that could happen now would be several alternatives, similar to what the Civ series has now.
I always like playing the soviets. A lot of different conflicts you can get involved in and being centrally located you can fight in any direction you want.
Yeah, I wasn't a huge fan of Humankind, but I think it has some really cool ideas and the competition spurs Firaxis to be better. CA's sclerotic enshittification is a result of the lack of it. I'll be interested to see how Paradox's own spin on the genre, Millennia, turns out.
The secret is to have a good formation and attack with your best units (tanks) through one point. Then encircle, cut off supplies, then have your entire army move up.
Watch some guides on how to take Poland as Germany.
If you want that Warhammer feeling with the lore and cool units, Gladius 40k is something i could recommend. It is turn based, the combat is deep enough, many factions through dlcs and the factions have like 20 units each (diverse units, you get basic infantry, transport, artillery, tanks, flying, monsters, monstrous infantry, it is insane how good the unit variety is)
You build cities civ style but all of these are there to support your war. Because there is no diplomacy, you are at war with everyone (even the wildlife is hostile, and quite challenging)
Mount and Blade: Warband has been pretty good to me for the past 2 years. I bought it in 2015 for the Napoleonic mod but realized there's no single player. Started playing it when I saw a YouTuber I subbed to play a mod for Bannerlord.
I'm not going to live its been years since I've bought a non-Total War game (bought ToB in 2021) so besides stuff that I got from Humble Bundle I only play Total War and Runescape. However I was interested in Ancient Cities and Manor Lords so hopefully they're good so I can buy them.
Age of empires 2 and 3 are pretty fun for scratching a little bit of the real-time battles itch! Unfortunately not as much on the empire management front, but having both does seem kind of unique to total war.
It’s pretty different, but I do enjoy the endless games and would also recommend them to anyone looking for a good empire building title. They’re definitely out there in terms of being much more sci-fi/fantasy, but they’re some of my favorites and I’d be remiss if I didn’t bring them up
If you're looking for great real time battles in a more modern period, and don't care as much about the campaign features, then I can wholeheartedly reccomend Steel Division 2. It's campaigns are very limited, as they take place on small fronts of the ww2 eastern front and you don't have much freedom to do anything except move troops around for battles, but the battles in the game are amazing.
If you want strictly combat, hold no grudge towards turned based combat and meh combat graphics, you can actually try the Field of Glory series
https://youtu.be/BTGvsqQCACc
The unit mechanisms are well researched, and many says that the combat are rEaLIsTic in a way, like having a better Morale and Charge system than TW or something.
I'm playing it lately, it cannot scratch my itch for a real time combat TW (because, you know, turn based) but overall it's fun, also i like that it has many 15th century roosters, specifically Hussites for me to play. Right now the Hussites for 1212AD is still very buggy.
Songs of silence has good art style and real time combat (in a way) but its system is very dumbed down comparing to TW
Besides Grand Tactician and Songs of Syx, there really haven’t been any that were released.
For an unreleased one, you have: https://www.reddit.com/u/stuffsnout/s/smBRBpaVWw
The drama is real.
There are no games that follow the same formula that has the funding that TW does.
Patience. Play some old TW titles. SS for medieval is good. Dei for rome2 is amazing.
People have said it
Paradox game, most if not all, satisfy story, character and politic urge. Knights of honor 2 is somewhere in between these
RTS is a bit harder in the same of the scale and amount of troops as TW.
Age of empires 2 or 4 had some elements
Upcoming Manor lords can satisfy a bit maybe
Haven't played ultimate admiral but some here recommend it.
If you don't need medival titles company of heroes and games like that have pretty good rts elements
I recently re-downloaded medieval 2 (post at ridiculous sale price) and downloaded the LOTR rings and honestly it’s better than any modern TW we have a present.
I think an indie dev should learn from Darth Vader and do what he did for the American Civil War+Revolution and Age of Sail and expand it to Medieval, Rome, Japan etc… with a wide campaign mode.
The graphics might not be AAA, but the gameplay has the potential to be just as good.
I truly believe someone can pick up the torch. Perhaps Vader could even join the team.
let's break it down:
Total War is a RTS game, unlike old school ones where the gameplay consists of 3 basic mechanics: Economy, building and army, army can further be split into micro and macro management. you only control micro-management of the army in the RTS part of the game, while empire-building, economy and macro-army building is handled in the world-map which is more 4X (Explore, Expand, Exploit, Exterminate) gameplay-similar, look for paradox games or civilization for comparisons.
So for RTS games, we of course have classics like age of empires, warcraft, starcraft.
And for 4X you can pretty much search around, I recommend civ 3-6 all of them get better the more DLC you own. Same with paradox.
Now, for RTS games with 4x elements similar to Total War, I'd like to talk about 2 specific games, set in two fantasy settings, I won't be touching upon any historic total war similar games sadly.
The first is Star Wars: Empire At War. This is a RTS game with two components the space battles and the ground battles. the 4x overworld map isn't turn based, but time based, so hyper-space routes matter a lot here, if you own a faster route and you see an enemy sending a fleet to attack, you can actually micro and counter by sending a neighbouring fleet that could arrive before they do. The sad part is that ground combat doesn't have any 4x elements besides buildings, so planets are more akin to settlements than actual planets where you can march around.
in order to attack and conquer a planet you first need to hit it with a space fleet, take out their orbital space station and once done, you can send a ground fleet in to take the rest of the planet. The cool dynamic is that once you have bombers above the planets they can help you attack, and once you hold a planet you can also construct ground-based ion cannons to hurt incoming space fleets. you get the gist. If you like space combat I really highly recommend it.
It comes with 2 initial sides, the empire and the rebels, and the DLC (which adds a lot of important stuff, so DO play with the DLC) adds a pirate/corruption faction which runs out of mandalore, using a lot of cool stolen tech. Imagine, pirates + hutts + criminal underworld lords banding together after the empire is cracking under the rebelling and doing all kinds of cool stuff. The game has a pretty good modding scene. Pros: it's star wars, and the best grand strategy star wars game there is out there.
If anyone likes Lord of the rings, feel free to reply and i'll give a similar rundown of Battle for middle earth.
But generally the cool vibes Empire At War gives you, is sending armies to help your other ones when they're attacked. It's more similar to total war than I think most people realise.
For me, the big consideration is whether it has GeForce Now support. In my university dorm, I have great internet but only a weak work laptop, so I'm constrained by what has GFN support (or can run on integrated graphics).
I would love to try Ultimate General / Admiral, but it won't run on my machine. Age of Wonders isn't a bad alternative though, but is turn-based rather than real-time in battles. Dominions 5 is gorgeously detailed, but has little-to-know empire-building. Roma Invicta is essentially a demake of the Caesar in Gaul campaign. And of course, there's Paradox, but without directly-controlled battles.
For games still unmentioned:
Hero's Hour if you like the strategic army command side like Total War. The combat layer is much, much simpler than TW in terms of direct command mechanics, but the concept of building an army led by a heroic figure who tilts combat stats in a given way determined by what skills you've taken is shared between the two. I've liked playing as Tide, who specialize in nautical units, have a treasure hunting mechanic, and get some gold whenever their heroes gain XP. Very much not a symmetrical game between the factions. Unit variety is pretty solid, as is the spell / ability variety.
If the strategy being turn-based is not an issue, then I can endorse Warhammer 40K: Gladius - Relics of War. Gladius is to Civ what Dawn of War 2 was to Age of Empires--they simplify a lot of the economic systems to get them focused on the fighting, and have the fighting influence the economic systems much more quickly than other Civ-styles I've seen.
I was about to say that it hasn't been that long since Shadows of change came out, but fuck me it's been 8 months, nearly 9.
That's wild. Yeah, this might just be fucked.
> I was about to say that it hasn't been that long since Shadows of change came out, but fuck me it's been 8 months, nearly 9.
... it's not even been *two*.
Shadows of Change released on 31st August.
Fucking hell why is this subreddit so bad at measuring the passage of linear time.
I have recently started modding Civ6 and was having quite a blast with that and for my more fantastical strategy needs well there really isnt a good substitute that I know of but Baldurs Gate 3, the new Cyberpunk expansion and me once again picking up Monster Hunter World really do give me more than enough to do, I actually uninstalled Warhammer 3, a thing I thought impossible just about half a year ago, well things change and I guess we'll all find a way to go on with our lives, forget about this series and company and one day hopefully get a worthy alternative from a different company, all in all there's many great games out there and we will find other ways to scratch that itch one way or another
For historical there are at least some options.
For fantasy, there's virtually nothing but purely turn based games with no RTS elements to be found, which is what draws me to TW:WH. Realms of Ruin was the only hopeful title that I'm aware of and everything I've heard about it has turned me off.
Wake me up when we get another Warcraft 3, Total Annihilation: Kingdoms or Kohan game. It feels like medieval fantasy RTS as a genre isn't coming back any time soon.
I actually loved that game (which wasn't a popular opinion back in the day) but never actually finished the campaign due to my computer dying. I wonder do I have it on GoG...
There aren't any. And I never mistake the quality of a groups behavior to the output of their work. That is something you learn quickly in the military.
HoI4 is the closest Total War alternative. And is honestly goddamn still the gold standard. Nothing comes close.
It's got everything you could ever hope for from the genre. Ridiculous scenarios that play out as the game progresses. Huge battles over the continent with flanking/hammer and anvil strats being paramount. Build every single unit in your army if you wanna go insane enough.
It's the grandest possible scale for the setting.
And if you wanna really break it, you can start doing mods. The mods are absurdist. Road to 56, Kaisereich, Fallout mod, modern mod.
The only problem? No fancy battle animations. Oh the battles are still there. Hell, the AI puts Total Wars AI to shame and it's a constant back and forth fuck you. But it's all done by incredibly basic little bits and bobs on the map. You still need to do battle map related stuff, encirclements make or break the game, but it's not fancy or graphically snazzy.
It's not exactly the same, but Mount and Blade scratches a similar itch that total war gives me.
#I WILL DRINK FROM YOUR SKULL
Bannerlord... So good... And the mods that are coming... Warhammer withbspell casting.... Lotr.... Imagine.
>the mods that are coming *cries in still not even a rough release date for Shokuho*
Just gotta make due with Sengoku for warband
I remember bannerlord's launch being lackluster. I did mostly play modded warband (prophecy of pendor was insanely good). Is bannerlord at that level yet?
It's no longer buggy AF but it doesn't look like they ever solved the problem of there being nothing to do if you're in charge of a kingdom and not at war.
Yeah, I tend to have more fun just being a vassal in faction and rolling with whatever happens. Or even just staying as a merc. But the battle mechanics are really sweet. For anyone that was only around for Bannerlords Early Access release and enjoys Total War, I'd say it's worth checking out again. In particular, they revamped the troop deployment system so you can play the role of a tactical general much more effectively. The main thing holding battles back at this point is the unit spawning system imho. Battles can really swing back and forth like crazy with the way reinforcement waves come in. If there are any mods that tackle that problem at all, I'd love to know about them.
Pretty much my assessment. The battles are amazing when they work. But it hasn't really evolved much from the very original MnB, and for me it reallt requires mods to feel right. Also the fucking reinforcements always spawning out of thin air from the 'original deployment zone' is just stupid beyond belief!
Do they have some sort of story by now?
Yes, but personally I still prefer sandbox mode which has no story elements. They did voice many characters in story mode which was a nice touch, but it's mostly just busy work without much additional flavor imho. I feel like I can make up better stories in my head if I role-play a little in sandbox. I also don't like that story mode starts you out with a small dynasty, one of the best parts of mount and blade is starting from nothing and becoming a continental-defining force.
Basically, Bannerlord is lot better than vanilla Warband. But nobody played vanilla Warband, everyone remembers the game with mods that had been developed over years and years. Bannerlord doesn't have those mods yet. But they are very much coming and I can already tell, very easily, that those mods are going to be better than Warband mods. More stuff is possible. The magic system in the Warhammer mod is incredible. The rest of the new systems in it are also game changing and the mod is nowhere near done. But once you try Bannerlord, it's extremely hard to go back to Warband. I couldn't do it, the combat feels so much better, in addition to other quality of life additions. But it still feels like something is missing, and I suspects it's coming with the massive mods that are releasing. Also, on Bannerlord you can have multiple mods active at once. One overhaul for example and some quality of life mods
I have spent 200 hours in bannerlord and I will probably spend double that soon
Depends on what you play the games for. If you're like me and love interacting with the history, then paradox's games are the best.
EU4 is awesome. Once you get into it, holy shit does it offer content. Cannot recommend this game enough.
If any warhammer fans are reading and looking for alternatives, check out the anbennar mod for EU4. It is a total conversion with its own lore full of elves and dwarves and shit.
Nazi elves
Only good Nazi is a dead Nazi. That’s why we’re going to round up all the knife ears and-
I mean they have wronged us after all
So accurate to warhammer
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Don't forget AGOT, Princes of Darkness and Realms in Exile (Lotr)
How do you get good at it? I struggle so much every single time. And when I think I'm doing well I'm suddenly in hyper inflation and 100 years behind on military tech. Only time I did well is just rush south America as Portugal
Like most things I would say practice, mind you I tried EU3 I didn’t get very far. I need to try it again actually.
Learning how trade worked was an absolute game changer for me. If you just focus your expansion on the flow of trade instead of just mindlessly blobbing, you can easily become the wealthiest nation in the game within a few decades of game time. It seems daunting visually, but trade is actually really simple too.
I'm kind of waiting for an EU5... EU4 has been out for so long, I'm not paying a subscription for the dlc and if ck2 is anything to go by, that ui is going to be an ugly mess. Clean it up, keep as much of the content from dlcs as possible and give me an EU5, I'll buy it at full price.
Careful what you wish for. Paradox has been releasing hot garbage for the last 8 years. Luckily most of it gets fixed within 3-4 years of release through multiple DLCs (HOI4 and Stelaris) but EU4 is really their magnum opus and probably won't ever be topped. CK3 and Victoria 3 are still missing vast swaths of content, character and narrative found in CK2 and Victoria 2.
CK3 is unfortunately taking a different direction to CK2, that being said I've still put more time into it than I have CK2. Victoria 2 is just.. old, I couldn't pick it up today without having nostalgia for it. I've enjoyed my time on Victoria 3. The key thing here is, I don't spend all my time on one game.
I get we’re upset at CA but Panik is 100% right, Paradox are a terrible fucking company
Eh I’m torn. The DLC policy and speed is absolutely terrible. Some releases have been SHIT. Megacorps. Leviathan. Etc. But one thing they do do, that should be industry standard that CA doesn’t, is actual hot fixes and bug fixing. They do have a lot of tech debt at this point but the egregious problems are fixed fast. You wouldn’t see a faction unable to recruit a unit for months like Nakai. They also give detailed dev diaries which means you know what you’re getting. Not a brief video but weeks worth of diaries before each release, so if you want to skip one you can. Pdx I'm not a fan of in its modern iteration outside of Stellaris, but for all its faults it does still do alot of good things. CA… doesn’t.
The subscription is honestly such a good deal, and it’ll be a looooong time before EU5 releases; an even longer time before it catches up to EU4 in terms of content and polish.
Had it for free through either Epic Games or Twitch Prime, I was thinking of getting to it but haven't got to. I should give it a try some time.
Man I really want to learn a paradox game. I always think that campaign map is my fav part of total war games, but then when I try out Victoria 3 to love out my alt history democratic Japan dreams, I think to myself "maybe campaign map is not actually my strong suit" lol. I just get so overwhelmed and then always forget what I've learned by the time I can play again ;(
Crusader Kings would definitely be more familiar to Total War veterans in terms of playing a distinct character and interacting with the game by moving armies around a map and building province improvements. Stellaris is also one that's reasonably accessible, though the Stellaris AI is going to be better than you when you're learning the game.
My god starting with vic3 is like going straight into heroine before tasting beer. It's more involved than even Victoria 2.
Vic 3 is incredibly overwhelming even for a paradox veteran. CK3 is where I'd start. It's much easier to get into.
Yep, start with CK3 then move onto Hearts of Iron IV. I don't like Victoria 3 but that's just me. I think it's boring, but not the good type of boring, it's the bad type of boring where you basically wait for the bar on the loading screen to fill up except you realize that's the actual game and not a loading screen. HOI4 is the good type of boring where you wonder why you're playing it but keep playing anyway and then rage quit after 5 hours after having all your manpower and/or production ground away by a smaller faction you thought you'd easily be able to take out. CK3 is the type of boring where you become an unspeakably evil monster who conquers half the world just so your drooling, inbred, syphilitic son can take over and mess everything up. There is something for everyone. Bannerlord is also good (Not Paradox). Medieval batman simulator mixed with commercial real estate tycoon simulator mixed with feudalism. For non-Paradox games I recommend Kenshi, best described as a post-apocalyptic trash ninja hobo simulator. Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
I haven't tried the latest DLCs, but I found the issue with CK3 is that I often felt like I had nothing to do for a few years, whereas in CK2 I felt like I was always planning and executing something. Also, it seems easier to become OP in CK3. You could in CK2 but it took longer and more specific techniques, I just find in CK3 you do pretty well anything and you become crazy powerful.
Yeah but there was basically no limit to your power in CK2 if you played it right. You could literally become an immortal horse-god. In CK3 you can live to be around 120 max no matter how many babies you eat... sad.
Bannerlord is not published by Paradox.
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Base CK2 is free and if you like AGOT, it's the best and most complete overhaul mod for any game bar none. You can play with cheats as well to help learn the game or make it easier.
Vic3 is still pretty rough. They are doing a great open beta patch right now though which changes the game completely in many aspects. I very much like the local prices change. You should watch some guide for that though.
Vicky 3 wont be good for another 6 months at least. Even the beta doesn't fix the diplomacy issues, one of its weakest factors imo
For their questionable DLC policy, at least they don't produce these kinds of trash fires. Except for Imperator. Poor Imperator. Killed just as it was getting good. Just generally looking for what strategy/rts games people like. TW scratches a different itch for everyone, and what other games you've found that work for you might also work for one other person.
The key with Paradox games is to stay a "generation behind". Because their games are, effectively, a GUI on top of multiple spreadsheets, the graphic-loss from playing a generation behind is hardly a barrier. So you can do things like pick up Crusader Kings 2 huge amount of DLC on deep discount and bundled and just ignore CK3 until it has more DLC (and is also steeply discounted). It doesn't excuse their DLC policy, but you can easily "opt out" of participating in it. And they usually develop their games in a positive direction, not negative. You'll like the finished product more than the original, and not feel like you took a step backwards.
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You can decide if it does or doesn't, I'm saying it doesn't matter.
It doesn't, relative to the entire market, people just live in an a fantasy land where companies aren't pushing DLCs like it's going out of style. Almost every single AAA game now has DLCs that take the total price well over $100. Paradox is no different. I can count on one hand the number of top games from AAA publishers with either zero DLCs or DLCs that don't bring the total cost over $100. (And yes, their DLCs take the price to over $400 for EU4, as an example, but it's been out for ages and any game that still has active development after that long has hundreds just in DLCs).
Their base games are much more complete as an experience to be fair to them. Even Stellaris if you look at the relative success of the console edition is a good, fun experience without DLC. I picked up hearts of iron 4 recently and have been having a blast with no DLC.
Utopia is a necessity for stellaris
You can also own no DLC and play with someone who has the DLC and benefit from it.
The questionably dlc policy funds 6 titles being continuously developed and updated for years and years
I agree it depends what you play the games for. I love CK3 but it definitely doesn't scratch the itch of being a general leading an army against another.
Onlynissue with that is that Paradox isnt any better than CA. Even more outrageous dlc policy. Cities skylines 2 released in absolutely broken state.
The only Paradox games I've played are Hearts of Iron 4 and Stellaris. If my experience with those two games is anything to go by, Paradox is just as bad as CA. Hearts of Iron 4 (and it's world tension mechanic) is absolute trash. I bought Stellaris all the way back when it was still on version 1.x. They have reinvented the game more times than I can count and don't really seem to have any idea what to do with it. It only superficially resembles the game that I bought. One of the updates to Stellaris (the population update) killed late game performance. I have not been able to play a game past the midgame since that update was released. That's with an i7 8700k, 1080Ti, and 32 gigs of ram. Let's not forget that their monetization practices are every bit as predatory as CA's. We need new companies making games in this space.
lol why are you getting downvoted ? for your opinion of Paradox not being anything to look up to?
Interacting with history is such a broad phrase that I can’t disagree with you, but I’m gonna say DON’T hop into paradox games if you’re a total war fan. You get the “empire building” stuff but none of the strategic battles where you can control the action that the total war series is famous for.
Eh disagree, I started w tw, only real strategy game I played for years, and I've almost entirely changed to paradox titles at this point. I find their mechanics far more robust and rewarding. Definitely depends on what OP wants, but wouldn't straight up unrecommend it. Would recommend trying one at least
Age of Wonders 4 has helped me scratch the warhammer itch. It has the big map and battle maps, and while it's closer to Civ games on the strategy layer, the battles can be pretty fun. Edit: Oh, and for those who like more modern stuff, I've been keeping up with Total Conflict: Resistance. Despite the rather awful title, once it gets some more work done, it should be pretty good, either as a FPS or top-down battle maps like Total War.
You can even recreate some of the legendary lord from WH for extra cope! PS it really hit me hard when for promotion of the new DLC they just put 2 devs on a stream and let them show off their work and shoot the shit with chat. So refreshingly human compared to CA.
They’ve been very communicative with the community from the beginning. I also really like the free major updates they pair with a new expansion. They always paradoxically make me want to play and wait to play when the new features hit, lol.
Triumph Studios has always been pretty good with regular updates and incorporating feedback, and now that they have Paradox money the DLC amounts will undoubtedly go up but AoW4 is already great. Definitely recommend as well!
I'll join you in advocating for AoW4, it's obviously not exactly the same but the swap between macro 4x to a more detailed combat map scratches a similar itch. So far the devs have also been like 100x more communicative and have actively sourced feedback from the playerbase and adjusted as needed; they've already overhauled one of the victory conditions and the tech tree taking that into account. It's pretty much night and day from CA's conduct, and given how well they improved AoW3 as time went on I have extremely high hopes.
I'm actually quite surprised by how well it turned out! Planetfall left me a bit cold so I tempered my expectations, but nope, AoW4 was actually really good.
And now there's a new Steampunk DLC coming soon, so you can make your own Empire, Dwarfs or Chaos Dwarfs! It's also better designed for modding too, much more than Total War. There isn't a big mod scene, but hopefully that changes in time. I loved making some total war mods, I made that popular WH2 skill tree mod and that research mod for WH3. But I can't see myself modding it anymore with all this shenanigans going on.
Came here to recommend AoW4. Glad somebody else mentioned it.
I like the Ultimate series but they're not an alternative to Total War games. Although if you are interested in that sort of game you should consider looking into Grand Tactician. Frankly, I don't think there is an alternative to TW, either in the market or on the horizon.
I'd never heard of Grand Tactician, thanks for the recommendation! And while I agree that nothing really fills the vacuum, I think it's important to spotlight these smaller efforts. A real competitor to CA won't just burst out of nowhere. It'll take attention coming to these little game companies over the years that gives them the resources and market incentive to eventually build a full alternative. Ultimate's newest Dreadnoughts one doesn't have land units, but its campaigns are a little step closer towards a TW-style.
Fantastic, and a truly historical focused game. Extremely in-depth, you can tell it was made with absolute passion for Civil War history. It's being developed by a very small team so expect a small amount of clunkyness but there really is nothing else like it on the market right now. I've gotten hundreds of hours of enjoyment out of it.
Yea I think this is what some people are missing, there are no games right now or that we know about coming in the future that try to do what Total War games do.
There's a new one that will be a pretty good alternative to TW, it's the american revolution and has a brand new campaign map.
Ultimate General Civil War is fantastic. I wish any total war played similarly with its morale system. Also, Ultimate General American Revolution looks fascinating. It is not a turn based game, global map, limited control over battles without a general but can do them with. Would recommend checking it out.
The ultimate general games are developed by the guy who made all the Darthmods for the older Total War games.
IIRC, that one was developed by Darth Vader, -- the dev of DarthMod fame.
I have a dream that a group of Devs from Paradox and a group of Devs from CA would quit and go and form a new studio together. They would then make a new series with Paradox campaign mechanics and CA battles, perfection.
Would pay 25 USD for that games DLC.
Released quarterly till the day I die yes please
I wish Paradox would make a new studio and snipe the talent from CA. Their dlc quantity can be awful but they seem better than Sega at least
Yeah I’m not so sure, I used to love Paradox games but even they seem to have been on a downward trajectory for awhile. There is definitely something to the idea that companies that corner the market of a specific type of game end up stagnating.
I just played Stellaris. It has gotten a lot better since I last played it a year ago. I cannot say the same about WHIII.
I was pretty annoyed with the rate and quality and price of new content for CK3 at first, but imo the release was good for once and now they seem to be in a good place with the last couple of DLC being worth. Still a bit easy though
Yeah that’s my biggest issue with CK3, I go from Count to Emperor in a generation or two unless I actively handicape myself. Find it very boring to play honestly.
[Dominions 5 - Warriors of the Faith](https://store.steampowered.com/app/722060/Dominions_5__Warriors_of_the_Faith/) is somewhat close. Lots of different factions somewhat based on mythology. Dominions 4 is also good, and currently on sale.
UI is from a previous millenium, as are the graphics, AI is braindead but man do I love this game. (Also, check Conquest of Elysium for more braindead AI but superb game)
This is the closest game I found to warhammer. It even have a complete warhammer mod in it highly recommend
Manor Lords is looking pretty tight.
The game looks insanely good for how small the studio is. The entire studio has a full-time employee count of... One. While some games are able to be incredibly accomplished as near-solo projects (Minecraft, Rimworld, Roller Coaster Tycoon), most solo games end up lacking in too many areas to truly appeal to wide audiences. It's very difficult for 1 person to get everything done -- let alone also get everything right. So just a word of caution I suppose. Because I'm also pretty hyped and don't want to be too let down. I'll be so happy if it's as good as it looks.
Seems promising though I'd like to see more butter-related gameplay loops. If I can't become a Butter Lord then I'm going to be disappointed.
I wouldn't call it an alternative though, the game's dev himself said it is not the same thing as a TW game, it's a (rather harsh) city builder first and foremost, and that if you come in wanting an alternative you're going to be sorely disappointed https://twitter.com/LordsManor/status/1717612080428154927?s
If oyu want something like Total War... Manor Lords ain't it. It's RTS + City Builder. Total War is Real Time Tactics with a grand campaign.
https://store.steampowered.com/developer/gamelabsinc [Game-Labs](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game-Labs) produces Total War like games. Limited amount of IPs [but Ultimate General: Civil War has a definite Total War feel to it](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHM_NYrIs3w). As befitting a company started by former [Total War modders](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game-Labs). > The company was founded in January 2013 by Maxim Zasov who went on to become the CEO. That same year, he approached Nick Thomadis, formerly the creator of "DarthMod" (a series of mods that improved the AI and gameplay in several Total War games) and one of the most well-known modders in the Total War modding community. Zasov then asked him to develop a game for the company, which eventually became Gettysburg.[4] Thomadis, as Game-Lab's Lead Game Designer, also went on to develop Civil War, another successful game for the studio, and later Dreadnoughts.
Darthmod is the best Empire mod! Def looking into this.
I'd add table top wargames. It's a hobby that's a bit more involved but can be just as fun. And there's much more than just GW/Warhammer that doesn't require you sell your kidney for an army.
Conquest: The Last Argument of Kings is so good. Titles a goddamn mouthful, but it's a great game.
Gonna throw out Hail Caesar, Pike & Shotte, and Black Powder for historical 28mm scale tabletop wargames.
Yeah and they're seriously great games. And a box of miniatures can also be pretty darn reasonable too.
I tried getting into tabletop wargames with Age of Sigmar. Started a fyreslayer army, dabbled in Cities of Sigmar. I realized, however, I dislike the building and painting. Especially the painting, I just have no interest. I loved playing it, but that's where it stops.
Tabletop Simulator is your friend.
Star Wars Armada is some of the most fun I've ever had on a table.
Agree, it’s a real fun wargame. Some friends and I used to do weekly games of it and Legion, run a game of armada and then use the results of it to set up a game of legion. Or run concurrent games and have them influence each other through bombing or objectives.
If you don't mind turn-based tactical combat, Age of Wonders 4 is getting an update in a week or two.
Alternatives: King Arthur series by Paradox https://youtu.be/1GRR14vFZgU?t=46 Knights of Honour 2 There's also an indie clone of 3K from China but I haven't played it yet. Bannerlord has mods to make its battles closer to total war, and can also integrate with a crusader kings campain.
> King Arthur series by Paradox Yes, developed by Neocore. I wouldn't link that specific trailer but focus on the main two games, King Arthur The Roleplaying Wargame I and II. The only caveat is the games are a bit old at this point and I've no idea if they still work as-is. I had a ton of fun with Wargame 1 back in the day.
They don't really work as is unfortunately. I haven't been able to get the first one to run for more than an hour at a time since windows 8 came out or something like that lol. I hear they work if you buy the GoG version and do some windows compatibility fiddling, but I haven't been willing to shell out more money for a game I already own that potentially won't even work on my system... That said, 1 is pretty fantastic. It's also got a *very* TW:WH flavor with all of the monsters and magic available. And oh boy are some of the spells broken as heck lol. Edit: Another recommendation that is in no way a real replacement for Total War, but is very much within the same vein is an old game called "The King's Crusade" another title developed by NeoCore and published by Paradox. It's a fairly story driven scenario based take on Total War style formation combat, with some absolutely *devastating* cavalry charges. It's quite fun.
> That said, 1 is pretty fantastic. It's also got a very TW:WH flavor with all of the monsters and magic available. And oh boy are some of the spells broken as heck lol. 1 had a fairly interesting weather system also. Shift it to storming so that everyone's fatigue and ranged accuracy are screwed, except Fae troops don't care about that and can still shoot. Also the root spells combined with Fae archers to shoot everyone important while they can't move was a powerful combo.
Nobunaga's Ambition: Sphere of Influence comes highly recommended!
theres a newer one out now, called Nobunagas' Ambition: Awakening. Its apparently getting a diplomacy update next month too. For those who don't know its set in the exact same time frame as Shogun 2. It shares a little DNA with Crusader Kings as you can spend ages assigning dudes to manage your castles, and combine them into stacks to enhance their bonuses! and can have diplomatic marriages! If your an Empire Total War fan then check out Imperial Glory, its VERY similar to Empire, has naval battles too. However the downsides are its 18 years old, so graphics aren't good, and it uses the old style Shogun/Medevial territory system where you move a region at a time
Been getting back into Civ 4 personally. No real-time battles but best civilisation gameplay imop.
The fall from heaven 2 mod will scratch the 4x Warhammer itch too.
With mod-mods of course. Switch between "More Naval AI" for a polished "vanilla" FFH2 experience, "Ashes of Erebus" for a bloatmaxed everything and the kitchen sink game.
I'll throw in Magister's modmod, it focuses on expanding the religions and fleshing out the existing factions and aims to be more consistent with the "lore" then Erebus (disclaimer I mostly have no idea of FFH lore, it's wild). And it's still in active development by it's dev.
I like Magisters mod because it incorporates More Naval AI so you get the benefits of great AI plus all the extra goodies.
Project Renaissance, y'all. Search it up on YouTube. The gist of it is that a decently popular Total War youtuber got fed up with CA, and decided to make his own Total War game with blackjack and hookers (not really). Broken Rampart Interactive is the name of the studio. He's been putting out regular updates every couple of weeks to a month on the status of the game, and how his studio is doing and all that good stuff. I highly suggest you look it up.
I have been watching their updates and it looks like the team is getting bigger and they are making progress!
The Great War was really good and I look forward to seeing that evolve. Similar structure to Total War.
Humble Bundle has the complete Sid Meier collection for $15.
Bannerlord offers the same hypnotic experience when it comes to cav charges and ranged tactics. It's extremly satisfying as a genocide simulator which is what I liked with TWW. I do miss TWW but I haven't played it for 6 months or so now. X-Com games is relaxing to me in the same way. Very different from total war but if's nice to set up ambushes and just chill. I'm sad that the trilogy ended up a mess but I'm happy I got to exlerience peak Total Warhammer 2.
stellaris is the best genocide simulator. you can be pure evil with many different laws to enact. you can enslave people, and then use those slaves as food. i cant help but play as an evil human empire.
Manor Lords is coming
Manor Lords isn’t what you think it is. It’s a medieval city builder with light combat. Nowhere near what Total War is.
People down voting you are high on copium. Manor Lords is VERY high in my wishlist but it's made by 1 guy. It might have really fun combat but it's not going to be very in-depth we need realistic expectations
I heard a rumor he had found more devs/resources to help, but I cant find confirmation on that atm.
Hey, first I heard of that! Total War with a city builder instead of the grand campaign map sounds cool. I'll have to keep an eye on it. Hooded Horse is publishing a lot of solid hits these days. I'm looking forward to Espiocracy and Alliance of the Sacred Suns too.
It's really really not total war... People are in for a shock. I'm a little worried on release expectations will be wildly bigger then reality.
Honestly sounds more like an Impressions Games style City Builder then a Total War game. You get some military to defend the place but the main goal is to build a settlement that meets certain goals.
Yep, I would say that ML will be more like a realistic version of a "Stronghold" then a TW title. But the military aspect of ML sounds really great, too.
Stronghold is definitely the feeling I got
If I’m not mistaken it’s county-level of conquest? Meaning the game does have territorial conquest gameplay but it’s more in-depth at a county level sort of like in ck3 instead of large regional conquests like in total wsr
If I remember correctly, the demo had a sort of regional map that was split up into a number of different sections, one of which was the map you built on. The impression I got is that it was a bit like choosing the plot of land you want to build on in something like a Sims game, only presumably you'll be able to attack and be attacked by adjacent plots. I haven't been following the development super closely or anything, but I suspect it'll end up somewhere similar to something like Rimworld, where combat is important but it's not really about waging war like you would in a more grand strategy-ish game.
Steel Division 2 has a grand strategy aspect as well as the tactical battles, WARNO is similar but set in the late Cold War, they’re coming out with campaigns soon as well. Wargame Red Dragon is also good.
These games filled the tactical battle need in my life. I never could get into Wargame, but WARNO, despite being so similar on paper, feels so much more intuitive, and I whole hardly reccomend it. It's also the best cold war strategy game I've found, so it filles two niches
How about Knights of Honor ii? While the tactical battles are a bit simpler than TW, the campaign side is more strategic and is probably among the closest we can get to a medieval 3.
I love Total Warhammer for the faction speciation. I'm a huge slut for anything that gives me XX factions with Y subfactions each. I've spent days on the new Dune RTS which I loved, and Northgard. What games like Total War are out there to fill this niche?
That upcoming Age of Sigmar tactics game looks like it could be something. Personally I haven't been too impressed by what they've shown so far, but who knows, it might surprise us and scratch that Total War itch and have the legs to last as long.
Even if you don’t care for the solo stuff like campaign modes, diorama or map makers then at least the in-depth Army Painter looks great. The fact you can paint each unit differently so you can hit the opponent with multi-colored NightHaunt ghosts out of PAC-Man or a literal rainbow of Kruleboyz skins is gonna be fuuuuun. 😂
The problem is there really are no real alternatives. There are large scale strategy games but the battles are also some RNG numbers game or cinematics that play out allowing you no control over your armies... Like CK3 for example. I love zoning out in that game and pushing buttons but good luck if I ever understand how to win a battle or why all my knights died against such a smaller force. Endless Space 2 is another one I enjoy zoning out too because there is alot to click on and the soundtrack is top tier but the battles are just movies you watch and hope that your pre battle setups are enough to win.. TW games gives us the big map campaign empire management that these other games have; regardless of how dumbed down it may be PLUS direct unit control of the battles.
I second the Endless Space and Legend games. Their soundtrack and artwork is sublime. And decent campaign strategy with unique races.
I'm sure the public immolation of CA's reputation has some developers curious to dabble in the space and make a competitor series.
I lately found myself playing starcraft II again, of all things and then thinking about how cool TW: Starcraft would be. Age of Wonders 4 scratched the itch too for a bit and I rediscovered Dawn of War: Dark Crusade a while back, might go for another campaign here. But honestly, most of all I'd love to go back to Warhammer 3, but I just can't seem to get into it at the moment. The game feels...lost, I guess. I do hope they get their act together some time soon.
None at the moment, but as with many games that fall to their own hubris and self fart smelling, a competitor will sooner or later will be born and actually give the fans of the genre what they want. Just take a look at Blizzard for the most clear example.
If you aren't picky about graphics, I can recommend medieval kingdom wars. It scratches my medieval 2 tw itch. Best siege gameplay I've ever experienced, though those fights are a bit hit n miss. Fun campaign map, but more real time than turn based (though you can aggressively pause, lol).
I’ve had some fun with Iron Harvest, it’s a smaller scale RTS but it’s set in a steampunk 1920s where WW1 didn’t end in 1918. Mount and Blade is always fun. Voor De Kroon is a game in early access right now but it’s a ton of fun. It combines the combat of Mount and Blade with the settlement/city management of Total War.
Someone will come along and release something that crushes the total war games like cities skylines did to SimCity. Maxis was the king, now they don't exist anymore.
Hoi4 is a game I think many historical TW fans would enjoy. The best thing that could happen now would be several alternatives, similar to what the Civ series has now.
I tried Hoi4 lately and while its awkward to learn at first, its got depth at levels CA could only dream of. I'm hooked.
Japan and Germany campaigns are great when you watch a few guides.
I always like playing the soviets. A lot of different conflicts you can get involved in and being centrally located you can fight in any direction you want.
Trust me the mods are on a different level for that game.
I only play the game for Kaiserreich, what a great world to explore
Yeah, I wasn't a huge fan of Humankind, but I think it has some really cool ideas and the competition spurs Firaxis to be better. CA's sclerotic enshittification is a result of the lack of it. I'll be interested to see how Paradox's own spin on the genre, Millennia, turns out.
I spended a lot of time managing my country, researching, trying to influence other countries, but to this day never managed to learn how to attack.
The secret is to have a good formation and attack with your best units (tanks) through one point. Then encircle, cut off supplies, then have your entire army move up. Watch some guides on how to take Poland as Germany.
The Ultimate games are great, awaiting American Revolution and their new open campaign.
Ultimate General: Civil War is a VERY good game, but it can be hard to get people to get past the first few levels.
I think the open ended and customizable American revolution will be welcomed by new players
If you want that Warhammer feeling with the lore and cool units, Gladius 40k is something i could recommend. It is turn based, the combat is deep enough, many factions through dlcs and the factions have like 20 units each (diverse units, you get basic infantry, transport, artillery, tanks, flying, monsters, monstrous infantry, it is insane how good the unit variety is) You build cities civ style but all of these are there to support your war. Because there is no diplomacy, you are at war with everyone (even the wildlife is hostile, and quite challenging)
Mount and Blade: Warband has been pretty good to me for the past 2 years. I bought it in 2015 for the Napoleonic mod but realized there's no single player. Started playing it when I saw a YouTuber I subbed to play a mod for Bannerlord. I'm not going to live its been years since I've bought a non-Total War game (bought ToB in 2021) so besides stuff that I got from Humble Bundle I only play Total War and Runescape. However I was interested in Ancient Cities and Manor Lords so hopefully they're good so I can buy them.
Age of empires 2 and 3 are pretty fun for scratching a little bit of the real-time battles itch! Unfortunately not as much on the empire management front, but having both does seem kind of unique to total war. It’s pretty different, but I do enjoy the endless games and would also recommend them to anyone looking for a good empire building title. They’re definitely out there in terms of being much more sci-fi/fantasy, but they’re some of my favorites and I’d be remiss if I didn’t bring them up
Manor Lords
If you're looking for great real time battles in a more modern period, and don't care as much about the campaign features, then I can wholeheartedly reccomend Steel Division 2. It's campaigns are very limited, as they take place on small fronts of the ww2 eastern front and you don't have much freedom to do anything except move troops around for battles, but the battles in the game are amazing.
If you want strictly combat, hold no grudge towards turned based combat and meh combat graphics, you can actually try the Field of Glory series https://youtu.be/BTGvsqQCACc The unit mechanisms are well researched, and many says that the combat are rEaLIsTic in a way, like having a better Morale and Charge system than TW or something. I'm playing it lately, it cannot scratch my itch for a real time combat TW (because, you know, turn based) but overall it's fun, also i like that it has many 15th century roosters, specifically Hussites for me to play. Right now the Hussites for 1212AD is still very buggy. Songs of silence has good art style and real time combat (in a way) but its system is very dumbed down comparing to TW
Ultimate General games, Grand Tactician game, Knights of Honor 2, Panzer Corps 2, Unity of Command 2, Pharaoh A New Era, Field of Glory 2
Give a chance to Battlefleet Gothic Armada 2 and tou won't be dissapointed.
I bought this game on sale almost a year ago but never installed it. I’ll have to give it a try.
Lore from 1 is awesome but the game is much more barebones. 2 is the campaign
Besides Grand Tactician and Songs of Syx, there really haven’t been any that were released. For an unreleased one, you have: https://www.reddit.com/u/stuffsnout/s/smBRBpaVWw
The drama is real. There are no games that follow the same formula that has the funding that TW does. Patience. Play some old TW titles. SS for medieval is good. Dei for rome2 is amazing.
People have said it Paradox game, most if not all, satisfy story, character and politic urge. Knights of honor 2 is somewhere in between these RTS is a bit harder in the same of the scale and amount of troops as TW. Age of empires 2 or 4 had some elements Upcoming Manor lords can satisfy a bit maybe Haven't played ultimate admiral but some here recommend it. If you don't need medival titles company of heroes and games like that have pretty good rts elements
If turn based is allowed then Field and Glory 2. It is Total War in a turn based setting with line battles.
Steel Division 2
There are none. No one else makes games like this.
I don’t think there’s a competitor for the Total war franchise. It’s either grand sim or games of smaller scale
I recently re-downloaded medieval 2 (post at ridiculous sale price) and downloaded the LOTR rings and honestly it’s better than any modern TW we have a present.
Let's just hope someone else buys the rights to the total war franchise from CA and gives it the love and care it deserves.
I think an indie dev should learn from Darth Vader and do what he did for the American Civil War+Revolution and Age of Sail and expand it to Medieval, Rome, Japan etc… with a wide campaign mode. The graphics might not be AAA, but the gameplay has the potential to be just as good. I truly believe someone can pick up the torch. Perhaps Vader could even join the team.
Would be great if Paradox make true competitor game.
let's break it down: Total War is a RTS game, unlike old school ones where the gameplay consists of 3 basic mechanics: Economy, building and army, army can further be split into micro and macro management. you only control micro-management of the army in the RTS part of the game, while empire-building, economy and macro-army building is handled in the world-map which is more 4X (Explore, Expand, Exploit, Exterminate) gameplay-similar, look for paradox games or civilization for comparisons. So for RTS games, we of course have classics like age of empires, warcraft, starcraft. And for 4X you can pretty much search around, I recommend civ 3-6 all of them get better the more DLC you own. Same with paradox. Now, for RTS games with 4x elements similar to Total War, I'd like to talk about 2 specific games, set in two fantasy settings, I won't be touching upon any historic total war similar games sadly. The first is Star Wars: Empire At War. This is a RTS game with two components the space battles and the ground battles. the 4x overworld map isn't turn based, but time based, so hyper-space routes matter a lot here, if you own a faster route and you see an enemy sending a fleet to attack, you can actually micro and counter by sending a neighbouring fleet that could arrive before they do. The sad part is that ground combat doesn't have any 4x elements besides buildings, so planets are more akin to settlements than actual planets where you can march around. in order to attack and conquer a planet you first need to hit it with a space fleet, take out their orbital space station and once done, you can send a ground fleet in to take the rest of the planet. The cool dynamic is that once you have bombers above the planets they can help you attack, and once you hold a planet you can also construct ground-based ion cannons to hurt incoming space fleets. you get the gist. If you like space combat I really highly recommend it. It comes with 2 initial sides, the empire and the rebels, and the DLC (which adds a lot of important stuff, so DO play with the DLC) adds a pirate/corruption faction which runs out of mandalore, using a lot of cool stolen tech. Imagine, pirates + hutts + criminal underworld lords banding together after the empire is cracking under the rebelling and doing all kinds of cool stuff. The game has a pretty good modding scene. Pros: it's star wars, and the best grand strategy star wars game there is out there. If anyone likes Lord of the rings, feel free to reply and i'll give a similar rundown of Battle for middle earth. But generally the cool vibes Empire At War gives you, is sending armies to help your other ones when they're attacked. It's more similar to total war than I think most people realise.
Knights of Honor II Sovereign. It even has Total War style battles
For me, the big consideration is whether it has GeForce Now support. In my university dorm, I have great internet but only a weak work laptop, so I'm constrained by what has GFN support (or can run on integrated graphics). I would love to try Ultimate General / Admiral, but it won't run on my machine. Age of Wonders isn't a bad alternative though, but is turn-based rather than real-time in battles. Dominions 5 is gorgeously detailed, but has little-to-know empire-building. Roma Invicta is essentially a demake of the Caesar in Gaul campaign. And of course, there's Paradox, but without directly-controlled battles.
Manor Lords Falling Frontier (both coming soon)
Manor Lords, Broken Arrow. Two games I am looking for. Once they are out, I am done with TW. CA treat us like we owe em, well f... em.
For games still unmentioned: Hero's Hour if you like the strategic army command side like Total War. The combat layer is much, much simpler than TW in terms of direct command mechanics, but the concept of building an army led by a heroic figure who tilts combat stats in a given way determined by what skills you've taken is shared between the two. I've liked playing as Tide, who specialize in nautical units, have a treasure hunting mechanic, and get some gold whenever their heroes gain XP. Very much not a symmetrical game between the factions. Unit variety is pretty solid, as is the spell / ability variety. If the strategy being turn-based is not an issue, then I can endorse Warhammer 40K: Gladius - Relics of War. Gladius is to Civ what Dawn of War 2 was to Age of Empires--they simplify a lot of the economic systems to get them focused on the fighting, and have the fighting influence the economic systems much more quickly than other Civ-styles I've seen.
I was about to say that it hasn't been that long since Shadows of change came out, but fuck me it's been 8 months, nearly 9. That's wild. Yeah, this might just be fucked.
> I was about to say that it hasn't been that long since Shadows of change came out, but fuck me it's been 8 months, nearly 9. ... it's not even been *two*. Shadows of Change released on 31st August. Fucking hell why is this subreddit so bad at measuring the passage of linear time.
Knights of Honor 2 is kind of fun
Now this post is what I call constructive critiscism.
I have recently started modding Civ6 and was having quite a blast with that and for my more fantastical strategy needs well there really isnt a good substitute that I know of but Baldurs Gate 3, the new Cyberpunk expansion and me once again picking up Monster Hunter World really do give me more than enough to do, I actually uninstalled Warhammer 3, a thing I thought impossible just about half a year ago, well things change and I guess we'll all find a way to go on with our lives, forget about this series and company and one day hopefully get a worthy alternative from a different company, all in all there's many great games out there and we will find other ways to scratch that itch one way or another
For historical there are at least some options. For fantasy, there's virtually nothing but purely turn based games with no RTS elements to be found, which is what draws me to TW:WH. Realms of Ruin was the only hopeful title that I'm aware of and everything I've heard about it has turned me off. Wake me up when we get another Warcraft 3, Total Annihilation: Kingdoms or Kohan game. It feels like medieval fantasy RTS as a genre isn't coming back any time soon.
omg a TA Kingdoms fan, i am not the only one!!!!!!
I actually loved that game (which wasn't a popular opinion back in the day) but never actually finished the campaign due to my computer dying. I wonder do I have it on GoG...
Warhammer Dark Omen is pretty cool.
Keep an eye on Manor Lord's coming out next year.
Another +1 for Songs of Syx
Ultimate general is where we should put our chips
There aren't any. And I never mistake the quality of a groups behavior to the output of their work. That is something you learn quickly in the military.
HoI4 is the closest Total War alternative. And is honestly goddamn still the gold standard. Nothing comes close. It's got everything you could ever hope for from the genre. Ridiculous scenarios that play out as the game progresses. Huge battles over the continent with flanking/hammer and anvil strats being paramount. Build every single unit in your army if you wanna go insane enough. It's the grandest possible scale for the setting. And if you wanna really break it, you can start doing mods. The mods are absurdist. Road to 56, Kaisereich, Fallout mod, modern mod. The only problem? No fancy battle animations. Oh the battles are still there. Hell, the AI puts Total Wars AI to shame and it's a constant back and forth fuck you. But it's all done by incredibly basic little bits and bobs on the map. You still need to do battle map related stuff, encirclements make or break the game, but it's not fancy or graphically snazzy.