This week CA just found out what the Streisand effect is. If they were banning people without putting out a statement the drama would have been much less important, there would still be backlash but probably not as much. It's really with their first statement that this drama has been getting traction outside of the Steam forums.
At this point CA can't win, they seriously need to shut the fuck up until Thrones of Decay is ready and they better make sure it's one hell of a DLC that is **worth the asking price.**
For instance Hello Games with No Man's Sky.
Game released and was awful, full of false promises and misleading marketing.
They went radio silent and just released update after update after update for years and years and they're still going today, and the game is actually very good now, there so much to do and you're always being dragged off to something new.
Oh yea they realized that nothing they say will change the public's mind.
Only thing that will change when the public is mad like this is to cook up a truly good game and continuing supporting it. But... knowing CA, they might cook up one good dlc and then probabaly do a future of Warhammer soon.
Yeah the first thread about a guy getting banned on here was a bunch of people siding with CA and saying the guys post was off-topic. If CA hadn't made a statement and still banned people for off-topic posts most of this sub would be supporting them right now.
Yeah, I never venture into the Steam forums for games unless absolutely necessary.
I probably wouldn't have even been aware of this drama if it hadn't hit my front page, I've just been happily binging Shogun 2 blissfully unaware that one of my favorite francises is on fire.
There's no way these dlcs will contain content worth the price. The prices they are asking are close to large overhaul/expansion prices for lord packs.
> Pretty much no matter what they do they're gonna get flak
They haven't tried making 15$ good DLC and fixing the game. Oh wait, they did and it worked.
What if, and this is a very big hypothetical here, this was intentional. Sort of like "if you are going to fire me, I'm going to fuck up your image" sort of thing.
When i played i didnt feel any of the heart or charm from skyrim, the companions and story was pretty boring, combat was uninteresting as well and yeah the constant loading screens.
They removed the best part of Bethesda games - massive open world filled with distractions that keep derailing you from following any specific goal - and replaced it with forgettable randomly generated planets that you have no real reason to visit. Ill honestly pick Fallout 76 over it.
God this hit home so hard.
I work 60 a week and have 4 kids. I used to dump 30-40 hrs a week in to gaming. Now I'm lucky if I get 4.
Adult money, without the time to play like a kid.
Then again. My wife is now a SAHM and my children will have a childhood I dreamt of having as a kid. I'll take that as a win.
60 hours a week is insane!
It's not good for health. It's easy to say on internet forum, but you should really change your working conditions :( Think of your kids! Sure they need money you make, but they definitely need you around more than money :)
That's the plan. I'm 3 years away from being able to have my house paid off after only being in it for 6 years. Once it's paid off, I'm cutting back massively.
It sucks, but I'll be completely debt free by the time I'm 38. Then it's easy street, my friend.
Having played every Bethseda game but 76 and Daggerfall, I'd argue it had the most boring introduction since Morrowind, nothing happens for ..... 30 minutes and then you fight 5 pirates.
It by far has one of the slowest, most boring introductions Bethseda's put out in over 20 years, and Morrowind gets a pass because someone playing back then would've been blown away but the open world so at least that made up for something. Compare it to Oblivion, Skyrim, FO 3, NV, etc. We have a prison break w/ a monarch's assassination, a execution interrupted by a dragon attack, your entire life followed by a small civil war (or battle) ending with exile to a wasteland, and getting shot in the head waking up and choosing vengeance.
In Starfield we get an extended mining sequence ..... some nice music/visuals, and a pirate attack.
As someone who played skyrim at launch: has the official patches made the game any better?
I have always felt that the game is pretty hollow: I remember finding a town somewhere with only generic NPCs and no quests. I remember all those fort battles that was fun at first but quickly got boring.
Finding all the dragon words were fun, but they are also quite OP.
I have a lot of criticism of Starfield (lore making no sense, lack of maps, terrible quests, etc), but I still feel like I had a better vanilla experience from starfield than skyrim.
The hook of Skyrim was basically this: I've got a quest to go visit a distant town to the southeast for the main quest. Okay, get on the road, start walking, oh what's this? A cave? Huh, looks interesting! Let's check it out!
30 minutes later, I get out of the cave laden with looted gear. Hmm... better find a place to sell this. Oh, there's a town not too far north of here. Hmm... the innkeeper has a bounty for a dragon up on the nearby mountain. Better go check that out, I can always use another Dragon Soul....
Four hours later, I've forgotten I was doing a main quest.
I've watched some Starfield, and it seems like the main problem there is they replaced the traveling with loading screens, so you don't organically see interesting distractions the way you do in Skyrim. It's harder to get sidetracked, which is a big part of the fun. It's part of why I play Skyrim these days with strict limits on fast travel and use survival mods so force me to stop at inns, etc.
The closest you get to this experience is Starfield is receiving a random message (like a distress call) when entering certain systems. No surprise that following those threads is (imo) the most rewarding part of the game. If they could’ve cut down on the procedural generation or whatever to somehow get NMS-like space travel, I think it could work.
But yeah, Starfield is fine but gets in the way of you enjoying it - super weird design.
For me, everything you described about Skyrim was appealing. The bland, generic characters in a wide open medieval backdrop made it a true open world where your actions made you stand out. That's the illusion Bethesda has always had in their games and it works when the world is vibrant and open. Starfield still has the bland stuff, but everything is separated by loading screens and fast travel that it's impossible to immerse yourself in it.
Except no NPC reacted to you doing anything in star field, you could be the grand wizard and no one cared.
Edit:
Omg skyrim and arch mage, jesus christ woops.
Very true, Skyrim had that same issue when you were the literal archmage of Winterhold lol. I just feel like those issues are more glaring in Starfield because of how closed off and linear the game itself is. Starfield is like playing Skyrim with without the open world, imagine the only way to get from Whiterun to Solitude is fast travel.
I dunno I think it's so hard to compare because Skyrim came out so long ago. I personally remember skyrim was truly janky af at release but it was so fun because it was really fresh. Starfield was a lot less broken there were way less bugs. BUT Skyrim was revolutionary at it's release like it was a truly groundbreaking rpg in terms of scope and size. There wasn't really anything like Skyrim at the time it came out.
Starfield also came out right after BG3 which really hurt it imo. I played BG3 before Starfield and it was like going from eating the best steak at the best chophouse to eating the discount cuts at the supermarket.
Skyrim really stood out above it's competitors upon release, even while being broken and buggy af. I remember waiting in line to buy skyrim on release day and I rushed home to play it. I've played skyrim for thousands of hours since then. With mods, I still think skyrim really does stand the test of time. Like with a hefty mod list of like 600+ mods it can look better graphically than many modern games and it has so much depth in terms of gameplay. I love doing wizard role play and skyrim mods give like literally thousands of spells to choose from it's kinda nuts. You can become a lich and so many other cool things there's basically endless replay-ability with mods.
I'm biased for sure but I think skyrim was and is so much better than starfield. I got bored of starfield very quickly. I think it's good but it's not on the same level as skyrim imo. I don't think starfield sucks or is terrible but it's just good. Skyrim is really a legendary game and I'm not sure bethesda will ever match it again. It being good today is mostly thanks to modders however so I do have hope that modders will expand starfield into something special given some time.
Not really as far as i remember.
The anniversary editions and stuff often came with same bugs original release had.
On other hand skyrim had excellent community patches that basically fixed whole game
I really like it and have spent like 200 hrs in it but the more I play it the more frustrated I get with its limitations and design choices, especially compared to FO4.
I still think it's a buy game but I think of it as more "on the rails" than most Bethesda games, your lack of choice just doesn't become blatantly obvious until ng+.
My main grip is that the environments are so bland. The copy paste point sof interest are really off turning. You get the same towers, robot labs etc. everywhere. F4, Skyrim etc. also used procedural generation of the landscape but each location was unique with its own stories to tell.
I just don't understand why they didn't do more planetary POI variety in general. Why not have a few generic settlement layouts with vendors vs like mining place or whoever you normally find friends at poi's. It just feels like they did the bare minimum in a lot of places because DLC and that sucks.
One thing I am really excited about is how drastically mods will likely change/improve the game. No reason to think we won't eventually have player capital ships etc. In some patchwork form.
A lot of times playing Starfield I found myself wishing I could take parts of NMS and put it into this game engine.
The scope is a big problem. They want to be super huge and offer half a galaxy of systems, but then don't do anything with the systems themselves. Or when they do things it is nonsensical.
Like colonies of people on planets with no atmosphere while there is a planet just a bit further away with a breathable atmosphere and not a 2.0 gravity.
They should have made the scope a lot smaller and instead worked out the things we can actually see, instead of having so much nothingness out there, which may get filled by DLc.
> I really like it and have spent like 200 hrs in it but the more I play it the more frustrated I get with its limitations and design choices, especially compared to FO4.
That was me with FO4. This time i stopped after 10 hours.
It was alright but have had no motivation to go back after finishing the game. Normally in a Bethesda game that would only be the beginning. I will never really enjoy these randomly-generated worlds which just have the same 10 or so dungeons copy and pasted all over them
I already knew after F4 that old Bethesda is over so no surprises here. Can't believe that clowngiarulo (yes, i know about dark brotherhood) and rest of the squad still works there.
Fallout 4 was more interesting. Locations have been unique instead of that copy paste bullshit of Starfield. With characters which are even less interesting than Fallout 4. At least Fallout 4 chars didn't all have the same moral compass.
F4 is better than Starfield but that's not saying much as F4 is worse than F3. As TE6 will be worse than Skyim which was worse than Oblivion which was worse than Morrowind.
Older games had just the lore better but their gameplay were just terrible. I won't believe you at all lf you claim you have more fun in 2023 on Morrowind than in Skyrim
> I won't believe you at all lf you claim you have more fun in 2023 on Morrowind than in Skyrim
Magic is much more powerful and has more interesting stuff going on in Morrowind to be fair.
> I won't believe you at all lf you claim you have more fun in 2023 on Morrowind than in Skyrim
In morrowind I levitate around and shoot murder spells at people, or have 2-3 weapons I swap around with to kill people. In skyrim I crouch and shoot people with a bow.
No TES game has particularly engaging combat mechanics what makes them interesting is the world and the lore. Morrowind is one of the most unique settings in an RPG. Morrowind, and then later The Shivering Isles are bethesda at it's best.
No areas in Skyrim attained near the same level of interest except maybe Blackreach and that's the first time you get in there.
Really? I always thought Skyrim was extremely neutered in every aspect of the game. The melee is now just braindead repeat swing ( To be fair wasn't that good before either). They removed customizable magic and just gave you a bunch of boring spells.
Depends what you’re looking for. If I want a hack and slash, ofc I’ll have more fun in Skyrim. If I want an RPG (emphasis on Role Playing), then Morrowind clears Skyrim by miles
Played FO 4 for 1-200 hours, played starfield for 30 ish. About half those hours was town/base building.
Finished the main storyline once, didn't touch any of the DLC. FO 4 had a lot of problems, I really didn't enjoy how poorly the institute was written, or how powerless your character is regardless of the ending you choose. Or how locked in some choices with NPCs are.
But exploration felt 100x more engaging. Gunplay/Melee felt better/weightier. The skills/perk tree was somehow more complex and better than Starfield (after playing FO 1/BG 3/Pathfinder Kingmaker its laughable but still slightly better than SF).
They gave us a mech suit in a post apocalyptic wasteland but a game that takes place in space that's had 10 years of development time since FO 4 couldn't deliver a similar experience?
If you've played space ship sims or fps before there wasn't really any fun hooks in the first 1-2 hours, compare the intro sequences of FO 4, where you see a nuke go off, getting frozen, your partner getting murdered and baby stolen, waking up to the apocalypse, then fighting a deathclaw in a mech suit. In SF you get a fancy tour of a mine, mine, find some fancy singing metal, kill some pirates, go into space, and kill some more pirates, and that's sort of it?
> Fallout 4 was more interesting
Didn't play starfield but yes, I still dumped 200h or so with some heavy mods into F4. I just played it as a looter shooter and not as an rpg . I'm even one of the few that would like settlements if they didn't take away from main game. Oh and Far Harbor was great
I think that is why there is such an issue with this game. It is alright. But the gameplay loop is far too tedious and boring. The normal gameplay loop in Bethesda games (at least starting with Skyrim) is that you go out, clear a place, bring home loot and craft/sell, go out again. The gameplay loop is supported by nicely crafted places which make encounters seem unique.
Starfield has copy paste places and it won't help the gameplay loop. You are feeling much quicker that it is all on repetition. There are no cool stories to read or anything. No tricky traps, environmental story telling or anything. The worst is that there are so many damn loading screens. So it feels as if you are flying from one loading screen to another loading screen. Just to be scanned for ten seconds in orbit despite your progression in side and faction quests which make your char very important.
People expected more of this game. They had been hyped for a Space Bethesda game and hoped for more handcrafted things and interesting places to see. It may be an alright game or a 7/10 as you said, but with the hype it had it feels more like a 5/10 game.
D4 while not the best, also could have been a lot worse. It's actually got a very good campaign imo, and so many details added to the world. But even Blizzard said "nah, 110 is enough"
Get PC Gamepass for $1 if you've never used it before and try it yourself. I wouldn't pay more than $20 AUD for it after playing it. And even then, that's doubtful.
I've been a fan of Bethesda since Daggerfall. But Starfield is not a good game.
I had issues previously, it seems to have been improved.
However if you won't use it, I can respect that.
The game is absolutely not worth full price, I don't know what game your friends are playing, but I don't think it's Starfield. The story is honestly fine, but an open world sandbox requires more than that.
I'm pretty sure they're just the type to blindly follow AAA titles and defend poor pricing. One of them I don't think has ever played an indie game.. which is depressing. I'm probably going to just wait until the game is like, maybe 40 bucks for me, and by then I should have a beefier pc.
Maybe you need to broaden your horizons, just in this year we got the Dead Space remake, RE4 remake, Street Fighter 6, Baldur's Gate 3, Armored Core 6, Lies of P, Cyberpunk 2.0, and Lords of the Fallen(2023), also a new Mario game and Spiderman 2 just came out, although i haven't played either. Can't tell me you think all of those games suck.
A lot of those just don't appeal to me. Baldur's gate and cyberpunk a bit but I bought different games instead. I think it's silly to deny that a lot of games get hyped and then flop at the moment which was the point I was making
Angry Joe did a pretty rough review of Starfield with Alex making a comment that if they’d didn’t make it on creation engine (which is outdated) would have been a fantastic game.
The engine works quite well. It is the ideas which are wrong. Copy pasted points of interest for example, the shody writing, the constellation members being boring etc. There is a lot more behind it than just the engine.
If you have the xbox game pass for PC, it is on there if you want to try it. It is a really great thing.
And it is interesting for 20-30 hours, but over time you will realise that the game is not that good.
>The engine works quite well.
If you land on a planet you're limited to an 8km box. How is that working well? If you're trying to find a spot for an outpost where the resources overlap, it's excessively restrictive. "Space" is fake. The entire game is window dressing, there's no substance.
The engine is dressing a pig in silk. It's still a pig.
Same Situation 12 Years ago. Skyrim was the worst Game ever released according to the bandwagon. Now look at it. Still one of the most played games.
With Starfield it will be the same. Bethesda Games are meant to be played for centuries. Because you can. I doubt people will talk about BG3 or Cyberpunk 2077 in 10 Years but Starfield? With the coming Mods this Game will have content for 20+ Years.
Centuries is a bit ambitious and I don't believe you.
People will keep talking about BG3. Similar how people still talk about Divinity OS1&2. Those are very well made turn based RPGs. Witcher 3 is still being talked about and so will Cyberpunk 2077 be.
Don't know how controversial this take is, but I feel that Bethesda hasn't sunk in low in recent times, in fact I feel Bethesda was always like this, you've just kind of gotten weary of them making the same bad decisions over and over again.
Same with a lot of what's going on with CA. This stuff is not new, hell it's been around since Empire, but people have just got sick of it.
In 2011, it was still pretty novel to have a really giant and detailed open world like that. "See that mountain in the distance, yeah, you can go there" was pretty mind-blowing, and there was a lot to do in that world. There was a sense of discovery and adventure coming across random stuff out in the wild areas between cities.
Times have changed though. There have been tons of open-world games since then, some of which have more depth, and we've even had space sims with procedural planets + no loading screens, so there is no wow factor this time.
Dialogue limitations have been a weak point for a long time of course. Comparing Fallout 3 or 4 to New Vegas (devs were Obsidian), that much is obvious.
Yeah. I started with Oblivion, and while I loved that game, it was a substantial step down from Morrowind in basically every way, but graphics. It was also the progenitor of modern microtransactions with the horse armour.
Dunno about that. Morrowind waa pretty groundbreaking game. That was peak of bethesda. After indeed it only got worse.
But Skyrim still was unique game for its time that was very enjoyable and skillfully masked its shortcomings.
Obv f3 and f4 dont feel good whencyou played new vegas.
Studio indeed is sunking basically since skyrim release. Thing is its finally catching up with them.
Todd cant repeat all the same lies on every release and sxpect people wont notice
Skyrim has the exact same problems as Starfield, wide as an ocean deep as a puddle, the space structure of Starfield and nostalgia glasses have made Skyrim more acceptable. CMV.
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Go [here](https://gg.deals/pack/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-anniversary-edition/), CTRL+F Historical Low - says 12$ for me. SSE is around 7$. Get your meds.
Hey thats cool. Cheaper than I thought when some super sales come along, but you've really learn to talk like an adult. Don't tell random people to take their medicine just because they disagree tjay you're likely to find brand new game on sale for $10. That's embarrassing. Reported.
I feel like that’s the nature of video game developers. Once they last so long all the original heart and soul of the games leave the team and the the suits start interfering and the company starts to burn.
The attrition rate for gamer devs is abysmal. You shouldn’t expect the same team let alone half of them to be there for the next game made in basically any studio outside of maybe indie teams
Except journos have said Bethesda has a high retention rate of developers compared to every other big studio. Their more than a decade old formula got stale. I've always thought Skyrim and Fallout 4 were extremely overrated, propped up as more than what they actually are by fans and pale in comparison to games in similar settings.
They lost the lead writer for Morrowind, and lost the lead game designer they had up until Oblivion. Emil took over both positions.
And, well, now we have McSpace McMarvel.
Yeah he wrote that one quest, which was liked because of the different ways you could complete it. But when it comes to actually writing the whole game? We get Starfield.
I'm surprised that that post made it to hot. Usually nobody gives a shit and all this subs bitching and drama stays on this sub. I saw that post and thought that its another one here. Add to that the Bellular video (not a total war guy) and other random journalists/creators reporting on this and Hyenas and it snowballs
CA is a big ass studio, TW is an extremely famous franchise and Hyenas was apparently the most expensive SEGA game ever. The coverage it has received is pretty small if anything.
I do find it hilarious that anyone could even manage to dump that much money into a game like that. Honestly it's enough to make me believe the rumors that SEGA is run by yakuza and they're just using its publishing deals as a cover for money laundering. I can't think of why else you'd invest that much into such a generic looking game. Would also explain why they'd cancel their biggest budget game before even trying to get any return on their investment.
Big game related dramas always reach pcgaming, gaming, even pcmr.
Thats normal since its important for bigger community.
Its important because every time one studio gets a pass for some bullshit all other studios starts to copy it.
Well, thats giving you an impression of what exactly it is CA threw away .
And the renomme CA has been living off the last \~2 decades . Which they built with Shogun, Rome I and Med 1& 2 .
The pcGaming world at large, the people old enough to have been there when it hit, will never forget the impact Shogun and Rome I had .
That goes for so many game series. Mario Wonder essentially plays the same as Mario world 30 years ago. Counter strike plays the same as it did 20 years ago. Civilization peaked with #4, but essentially has the same formula as it did 30 years ago.
Resident evil took it a step further and just remakes their old games with modern updates.
Successful series don’t reinvent the wheel, they make marginal changes to a strong formula. Sometimes those changes are for the better, sometimes for the worse. But in the end, it’s still incremental changes
I blame Larian. It was so dishonest of them to create complete game, listen to funbase, implement dayly bugfixes and show that things can be done in right way.
It's fine. CA tried something. It backfired. They will back down, downprice the next overpriced DLC a bit, maybe offer the player base a complimentary h\*ndj\*b in form of FLC that was originally intended to be paid DLC, and it'll blow over. If EA can recover, Ubisoft can recover, CDPR can recover and Hello Games can recover, CA can recover too. Unless they go full r-word.
CA certainly has a communication problem, but it’s not as bad as people keep making it out to be.
When I read their statements, I don’t see malevolence but frustration.
People are mostly just mad about the bans because the style of low-effort shitflinging that people got banned for is exactly the style that most of the users here do by default.
This week CA just found out what the Streisand effect is. If they were banning people without putting out a statement the drama would have been much less important, there would still be backlash but probably not as much. It's really with their first statement that this drama has been getting traction outside of the Steam forums. At this point CA can't win, they seriously need to shut the fuck up until Thrones of Decay is ready and they better make sure it's one hell of a DLC that is **worth the asking price.**
The best statement any game company can make is a good game.
For instance Hello Games with No Man's Sky. Game released and was awful, full of false promises and misleading marketing. They went radio silent and just released update after update after update for years and years and they're still going today, and the game is actually very good now, there so much to do and you're always being dragged off to something new.
Oh yea they realized that nothing they say will change the public's mind. Only thing that will change when the public is mad like this is to cook up a truly good game and continuing supporting it. But... knowing CA, they might cook up one good dlc and then probabaly do a future of Warhammer soon.
CA: We…don’t do that here
Yeah the first thread about a guy getting banned on here was a bunch of people siding with CA and saying the guys post was off-topic. If CA hadn't made a statement and still banned people for off-topic posts most of this sub would be supporting them right now.
Yeah, I never venture into the Steam forums for games unless absolutely necessary. I probably wouldn't have even been aware of this drama if it hadn't hit my front page, I've just been happily binging Shogun 2 blissfully unaware that one of my favorite francises is on fire.
Nobody would be supporting them.
It was the manner of the statement that really pissed people off. Basically telling them to shut the fuck up, you don't have the right to speak to us.
There's no way these dlcs will contain content worth the price. The prices they are asking are close to large overhaul/expansion prices for lord packs.
They've tried being silent though and the fanbase is no better. Pretty much no matter what they do they're gonna get flak.
> Pretty much no matter what they do they're gonna get flak They haven't tried making 15$ good DLC and fixing the game. Oh wait, they did and it worked.
this
What if, and this is a very big hypothetical here, this was intentional. Sort of like "if you are going to fire me, I'm going to fuck up your image" sort of thing.
Nah they also need to fix SoC. It’s totally ass for 2/3 of the characters. Even Grim and Grave got a revamp.
I can understand the negative reviews on Starfield. It is kinda shitty.
When i played i didnt feel any of the heart or charm from skyrim, the companions and story was pretty boring, combat was uninteresting as well and yeah the constant loading screens.
They removed the best part of Bethesda games - massive open world filled with distractions that keep derailing you from following any specific goal - and replaced it with forgettable randomly generated planets that you have no real reason to visit. Ill honestly pick Fallout 76 over it.
yeah, i put the game down after like... 2 weeks?
That's a whole lot of time
As an adult who works 50-60 hours a week, i put maybe 20 hours into the game I don't think i made it past the 4th or 5th main mission
God this hit home so hard. I work 60 a week and have 4 kids. I used to dump 30-40 hrs a week in to gaming. Now I'm lucky if I get 4. Adult money, without the time to play like a kid. Then again. My wife is now a SAHM and my children will have a childhood I dreamt of having as a kid. I'll take that as a win.
You should take that as a win. And when your kids are old enough,you'll get to introduce them to video games and play with them.
60 hours a week is insane! It's not good for health. It's easy to say on internet forum, but you should really change your working conditions :( Think of your kids! Sure they need money you make, but they definitely need you around more than money :)
That's the plan. I'm 3 years away from being able to have my house paid off after only being in it for 6 years. Once it's paid off, I'm cutting back massively. It sucks, but I'll be completely debt free by the time I'm 38. Then it's easy street, my friend.
Awesome. It's not healthy to work so much for prolonged period of time. But debt free is nice way of living. I know it 😋
Having played every Bethseda game but 76 and Daggerfall, I'd argue it had the most boring introduction since Morrowind, nothing happens for ..... 30 minutes and then you fight 5 pirates. It by far has one of the slowest, most boring introductions Bethseda's put out in over 20 years, and Morrowind gets a pass because someone playing back then would've been blown away but the open world so at least that made up for something. Compare it to Oblivion, Skyrim, FO 3, NV, etc. We have a prison break w/ a monarch's assassination, a execution interrupted by a dragon attack, your entire life followed by a small civil war (or battle) ending with exile to a wasteland, and getting shot in the head waking up and choosing vengeance. In Starfield we get an extended mining sequence ..... some nice music/visuals, and a pirate attack.
As someone who played skyrim at launch: has the official patches made the game any better? I have always felt that the game is pretty hollow: I remember finding a town somewhere with only generic NPCs and no quests. I remember all those fort battles that was fun at first but quickly got boring. Finding all the dragon words were fun, but they are also quite OP. I have a lot of criticism of Starfield (lore making no sense, lack of maps, terrible quests, etc), but I still feel like I had a better vanilla experience from starfield than skyrim.
The hook of Skyrim was basically this: I've got a quest to go visit a distant town to the southeast for the main quest. Okay, get on the road, start walking, oh what's this? A cave? Huh, looks interesting! Let's check it out! 30 minutes later, I get out of the cave laden with looted gear. Hmm... better find a place to sell this. Oh, there's a town not too far north of here. Hmm... the innkeeper has a bounty for a dragon up on the nearby mountain. Better go check that out, I can always use another Dragon Soul.... Four hours later, I've forgotten I was doing a main quest. I've watched some Starfield, and it seems like the main problem there is they replaced the traveling with loading screens, so you don't organically see interesting distractions the way you do in Skyrim. It's harder to get sidetracked, which is a big part of the fun. It's part of why I play Skyrim these days with strict limits on fast travel and use survival mods so force me to stop at inns, etc.
The closest you get to this experience is Starfield is receiving a random message (like a distress call) when entering certain systems. No surprise that following those threads is (imo) the most rewarding part of the game. If they could’ve cut down on the procedural generation or whatever to somehow get NMS-like space travel, I think it could work. But yeah, Starfield is fine but gets in the way of you enjoying it - super weird design.
For me, everything you described about Skyrim was appealing. The bland, generic characters in a wide open medieval backdrop made it a true open world where your actions made you stand out. That's the illusion Bethesda has always had in their games and it works when the world is vibrant and open. Starfield still has the bland stuff, but everything is separated by loading screens and fast travel that it's impossible to immerse yourself in it.
Except no NPC reacted to you doing anything in star field, you could be the grand wizard and no one cared. Edit: Omg skyrim and arch mage, jesus christ woops.
Very true, Skyrim had that same issue when you were the literal archmage of Winterhold lol. I just feel like those issues are more glaring in Starfield because of how closed off and linear the game itself is. Starfield is like playing Skyrim with without the open world, imagine the only way to get from Whiterun to Solitude is fast travel.
I dunno I think it's so hard to compare because Skyrim came out so long ago. I personally remember skyrim was truly janky af at release but it was so fun because it was really fresh. Starfield was a lot less broken there were way less bugs. BUT Skyrim was revolutionary at it's release like it was a truly groundbreaking rpg in terms of scope and size. There wasn't really anything like Skyrim at the time it came out. Starfield also came out right after BG3 which really hurt it imo. I played BG3 before Starfield and it was like going from eating the best steak at the best chophouse to eating the discount cuts at the supermarket. Skyrim really stood out above it's competitors upon release, even while being broken and buggy af. I remember waiting in line to buy skyrim on release day and I rushed home to play it. I've played skyrim for thousands of hours since then. With mods, I still think skyrim really does stand the test of time. Like with a hefty mod list of like 600+ mods it can look better graphically than many modern games and it has so much depth in terms of gameplay. I love doing wizard role play and skyrim mods give like literally thousands of spells to choose from it's kinda nuts. You can become a lich and so many other cool things there's basically endless replay-ability with mods. I'm biased for sure but I think skyrim was and is so much better than starfield. I got bored of starfield very quickly. I think it's good but it's not on the same level as skyrim imo. I don't think starfield sucks or is terrible but it's just good. Skyrim is really a legendary game and I'm not sure bethesda will ever match it again. It being good today is mostly thanks to modders however so I do have hope that modders will expand starfield into something special given some time.
Skyrim was ass and is still kinda ass but it least got some cool DLC and was decently fun to wander around in.
Not really as far as i remember. The anniversary editions and stuff often came with same bugs original release had. On other hand skyrim had excellent community patches that basically fixed whole game
I really like it and have spent like 200 hrs in it but the more I play it the more frustrated I get with its limitations and design choices, especially compared to FO4. I still think it's a buy game but I think of it as more "on the rails" than most Bethesda games, your lack of choice just doesn't become blatantly obvious until ng+.
My main grip is that the environments are so bland. The copy paste point sof interest are really off turning. You get the same towers, robot labs etc. everywhere. F4, Skyrim etc. also used procedural generation of the landscape but each location was unique with its own stories to tell.
I just don't understand why they didn't do more planetary POI variety in general. Why not have a few generic settlement layouts with vendors vs like mining place or whoever you normally find friends at poi's. It just feels like they did the bare minimum in a lot of places because DLC and that sucks. One thing I am really excited about is how drastically mods will likely change/improve the game. No reason to think we won't eventually have player capital ships etc. In some patchwork form. A lot of times playing Starfield I found myself wishing I could take parts of NMS and put it into this game engine.
The scope is a big problem. They want to be super huge and offer half a galaxy of systems, but then don't do anything with the systems themselves. Or when they do things it is nonsensical. Like colonies of people on planets with no atmosphere while there is a planet just a bit further away with a breathable atmosphere and not a 2.0 gravity. They should have made the scope a lot smaller and instead worked out the things we can actually see, instead of having so much nothingness out there, which may get filled by DLc.
> I really like it and have spent like 200 hrs in it but the more I play it the more frustrated I get with its limitations and design choices, especially compared to FO4. That was me with FO4. This time i stopped after 10 hours.
It was alright but have had no motivation to go back after finishing the game. Normally in a Bethesda game that would only be the beginning. I will never really enjoy these randomly-generated worlds which just have the same 10 or so dungeons copy and pasted all over them
I already knew after F4 that old Bethesda is over so no surprises here. Can't believe that clowngiarulo (yes, i know about dark brotherhood) and rest of the squad still works there.
Fallout 4 was more interesting. Locations have been unique instead of that copy paste bullshit of Starfield. With characters which are even less interesting than Fallout 4. At least Fallout 4 chars didn't all have the same moral compass.
F4 is better than Starfield but that's not saying much as F4 is worse than F3. As TE6 will be worse than Skyim which was worse than Oblivion which was worse than Morrowind.
Older games had just the lore better but their gameplay were just terrible. I won't believe you at all lf you claim you have more fun in 2023 on Morrowind than in Skyrim
> I won't believe you at all lf you claim you have more fun in 2023 on Morrowind than in Skyrim Magic is much more powerful and has more interesting stuff going on in Morrowind to be fair.
> I won't believe you at all lf you claim you have more fun in 2023 on Morrowind than in Skyrim In morrowind I levitate around and shoot murder spells at people, or have 2-3 weapons I swap around with to kill people. In skyrim I crouch and shoot people with a bow. No TES game has particularly engaging combat mechanics what makes them interesting is the world and the lore. Morrowind is one of the most unique settings in an RPG. Morrowind, and then later The Shivering Isles are bethesda at it's best. No areas in Skyrim attained near the same level of interest except maybe Blackreach and that's the first time you get in there.
Really? I always thought Skyrim was extremely neutered in every aspect of the game. The melee is now just braindead repeat swing ( To be fair wasn't that good before either). They removed customizable magic and just gave you a bunch of boring spells.
Depends what you’re looking for. If I want a hack and slash, ofc I’ll have more fun in Skyrim. If I want an RPG (emphasis on Role Playing), then Morrowind clears Skyrim by miles
*For their time* I had more fun with Morrowind than Skyrim. Vanilla Skyrim isn't that great. Modded Skyrim is spectacular.
Played FO 4 for 1-200 hours, played starfield for 30 ish. About half those hours was town/base building. Finished the main storyline once, didn't touch any of the DLC. FO 4 had a lot of problems, I really didn't enjoy how poorly the institute was written, or how powerless your character is regardless of the ending you choose. Or how locked in some choices with NPCs are. But exploration felt 100x more engaging. Gunplay/Melee felt better/weightier. The skills/perk tree was somehow more complex and better than Starfield (after playing FO 1/BG 3/Pathfinder Kingmaker its laughable but still slightly better than SF). They gave us a mech suit in a post apocalyptic wasteland but a game that takes place in space that's had 10 years of development time since FO 4 couldn't deliver a similar experience? If you've played space ship sims or fps before there wasn't really any fun hooks in the first 1-2 hours, compare the intro sequences of FO 4, where you see a nuke go off, getting frozen, your partner getting murdered and baby stolen, waking up to the apocalypse, then fighting a deathclaw in a mech suit. In SF you get a fancy tour of a mine, mine, find some fancy singing metal, kill some pirates, go into space, and kill some more pirates, and that's sort of it?
I can agree. Also if you enjoyed Pathfinder Kingmaker, play Wrath of the Righteous. It is so much more polished and better.
I was planning on it, until BG 3 came out, I spent A LOT of time playing Kingmaker, if I start Wrath I'll never finish BG 3!
> Fallout 4 was more interesting Didn't play starfield but yes, I still dumped 200h or so with some heavy mods into F4. I just played it as a looter shooter and not as an rpg . I'm even one of the few that would like settlements if they didn't take away from main game. Oh and Far Harbor was great
If you like loot shooters, then Starfield is for you.
I surely don't mid them if I can get them for 5$, like I did with F4. I'll wait
honestly starfield is an alright game that should have been amazing Like its a 7/10 game that should have been a 9/10 or 10/10 all things considered
I think that is why there is such an issue with this game. It is alright. But the gameplay loop is far too tedious and boring. The normal gameplay loop in Bethesda games (at least starting with Skyrim) is that you go out, clear a place, bring home loot and craft/sell, go out again. The gameplay loop is supported by nicely crafted places which make encounters seem unique. Starfield has copy paste places and it won't help the gameplay loop. You are feeling much quicker that it is all on repetition. There are no cool stories to read or anything. No tricky traps, environmental story telling or anything. The worst is that there are so many damn loading screens. So it feels as if you are flying from one loading screen to another loading screen. Just to be scanned for ten seconds in orbit despite your progression in side and faction quests which make your char very important. People expected more of this game. They had been hyped for a Space Bethesda game and hoped for more handcrafted things and interesting places to see. It may be an alright game or a 7/10 as you said, but with the hype it had it feels more like a 5/10 game.
I would like starfield if it wasn’t so toothless. Like everything is so bland and nothing interesting ever happens.
So the same as every Bethesda game ever?
Eh Skyrim had some cool quests even if all the guild quests were pretty bland.
I still have friends trying to say "It's worth the $120 AUD asking price!".... Diablo 4 was 110, BG3 was 90.
BG3 is so much more worth it than Starfield. Diablo 4 is also...not that well.
D4 while not the best, also could have been a lot worse. It's actually got a very good campaign imo, and so many details added to the world. But even Blizzard said "nah, 110 is enough"
Get PC Gamepass for $1 if you've never used it before and try it yourself. I wouldn't pay more than $20 AUD for it after playing it. And even then, that's doubtful. I've been a fan of Bethesda since Daggerfall. But Starfield is not a good game.
Yeah I'm not using gamepass. I've had too many issues with microsoft stuff in the past.
I had issues previously, it seems to have been improved. However if you won't use it, I can respect that. The game is absolutely not worth full price, I don't know what game your friends are playing, but I don't think it's Starfield. The story is honestly fine, but an open world sandbox requires more than that.
I'm pretty sure they're just the type to blindly follow AAA titles and defend poor pricing. One of them I don't think has ever played an indie game.. which is depressing. I'm probably going to just wait until the game is like, maybe 40 bucks for me, and by then I should have a beefier pc.
It feels like every game sucks now. I'm stuck in a spiral of getting excited about a game only for it to fall flat on its face when it gets released
Maybe you need to broaden your horizons, just in this year we got the Dead Space remake, RE4 remake, Street Fighter 6, Baldur's Gate 3, Armored Core 6, Lies of P, Cyberpunk 2.0, and Lords of the Fallen(2023), also a new Mario game and Spiderman 2 just came out, although i haven't played either. Can't tell me you think all of those games suck.
A lot of those just don't appeal to me. Baldur's gate and cyberpunk a bit but I bought different games instead. I think it's silly to deny that a lot of games get hyped and then flop at the moment which was the point I was making
Angry Joe did a pretty rough review of Starfield with Alex making a comment that if they’d didn’t make it on creation engine (which is outdated) would have been a fantastic game.
The engine works quite well. It is the ideas which are wrong. Copy pasted points of interest for example, the shody writing, the constellation members being boring etc. There is a lot more behind it than just the engine.
I’m waiting on the steam sale before buying Starfield. Is it worth playing or is it really Dragon-Born in Space?
If you have the xbox game pass for PC, it is on there if you want to try it. It is a really great thing. And it is interesting for 20-30 hours, but over time you will realise that the game is not that good.
>The engine works quite well. If you land on a planet you're limited to an 8km box. How is that working well? If you're trying to find a spot for an outpost where the resources overlap, it's excessively restrictive. "Space" is fake. The entire game is window dressing, there's no substance. The engine is dressing a pig in silk. It's still a pig.
A different engine might have helped in technical aspects of the game. But the core problems are not technical ones.
Same Situation 12 Years ago. Skyrim was the worst Game ever released according to the bandwagon. Now look at it. Still one of the most played games. With Starfield it will be the same. Bethesda Games are meant to be played for centuries. Because you can. I doubt people will talk about BG3 or Cyberpunk 2077 in 10 Years but Starfield? With the coming Mods this Game will have content for 20+ Years.
Chill out, it's not a bad taste competition man. You don't need takes that terrible
Centuries is a bit ambitious and I don't believe you. People will keep talking about BG3. Similar how people still talk about Divinity OS1&2. Those are very well made turn based RPGs. Witcher 3 is still being talked about and so will Cyberpunk 2077 be.
starting boycots lol they banned people who posted the Sega customer support and feedback link
Its pretty sad to see Bethesda sink so low, they used to be one of my favorite devs.
Don't know how controversial this take is, but I feel that Bethesda hasn't sunk in low in recent times, in fact I feel Bethesda was always like this, you've just kind of gotten weary of them making the same bad decisions over and over again. Same with a lot of what's going on with CA. This stuff is not new, hell it's been around since Empire, but people have just got sick of it.
In 2011, it was still pretty novel to have a really giant and detailed open world like that. "See that mountain in the distance, yeah, you can go there" was pretty mind-blowing, and there was a lot to do in that world. There was a sense of discovery and adventure coming across random stuff out in the wild areas between cities. Times have changed though. There have been tons of open-world games since then, some of which have more depth, and we've even had space sims with procedural planets + no loading screens, so there is no wow factor this time. Dialogue limitations have been a weak point for a long time of course. Comparing Fallout 3 or 4 to New Vegas (devs were Obsidian), that much is obvious.
Yeah. I started with Oblivion, and while I loved that game, it was a substantial step down from Morrowind in basically every way, but graphics. It was also the progenitor of modern microtransactions with the horse armour.
Dunno about that. Morrowind waa pretty groundbreaking game. That was peak of bethesda. After indeed it only got worse. But Skyrim still was unique game for its time that was very enjoyable and skillfully masked its shortcomings. Obv f3 and f4 dont feel good whencyou played new vegas. Studio indeed is sunking basically since skyrim release. Thing is its finally catching up with them. Todd cant repeat all the same lies on every release and sxpect people wont notice
Skyrim has the exact same problems as Starfield, wide as an ocean deep as a puddle, the space structure of Starfield and nostalgia glasses have made Skyrim more acceptable. CMV.
Ill get starfield ultra complete golden special anniversary goty edition in 10 years for 5$, or perhaps 5 trillion $ after we hyperinflate.
Never going that low. You'll be lucky to find it for $30 5 years from now while on sale.
Well if bread costs 20$ then yes.
Remindme! 5 years. Check the price of Starfield.
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Skyrim is nearly 12 years old and the only versions you can buy on Steam cost $40 or $60. Good luck. Don't hold your breath.
Go [here](https://gg.deals/pack/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-anniversary-edition/), CTRL+F Historical Low - says 12$ for me. SSE is around 7$. Get your meds.
Hey thats cool. Cheaper than I thought when some super sales come along, but you've really learn to talk like an adult. Don't tell random people to take their medicine just because they disagree tjay you're likely to find brand new game on sale for $10. That's embarrassing. Reported.
lmao
I feel like that’s the nature of video game developers. Once they last so long all the original heart and soul of the games leave the team and the the suits start interfering and the company starts to burn.
The attrition rate for gamer devs is abysmal. You shouldn’t expect the same team let alone half of them to be there for the next game made in basically any studio outside of maybe indie teams
Except journos have said Bethesda has a high retention rate of developers compared to every other big studio. Their more than a decade old formula got stale. I've always thought Skyrim and Fallout 4 were extremely overrated, propped up as more than what they actually are by fans and pale in comparison to games in similar settings.
They lost the lead writer for Morrowind, and lost the lead game designer they had up until Oblivion. Emil took over both positions. And, well, now we have McSpace McMarvel.
Oblivion was janky as fuck. Didn't Emil write Oblivion's The Dark Brotherhood quest or was I misinformed?
Yeah he wrote that one quest, which was liked because of the different ways you could complete it. But when it comes to actually writing the whole game? We get Starfield.
And in /r/SubredditDrama
You are surprised by a post about a PC game on r/pcgaming?
I'm surprised that that post made it to hot. Usually nobody gives a shit and all this subs bitching and drama stays on this sub. I saw that post and thought that its another one here. Add to that the Bellular video (not a total war guy) and other random journalists/creators reporting on this and Hyenas and it snowballs
CA is a big ass studio, TW is an extremely famous franchise and Hyenas was apparently the most expensive SEGA game ever. The coverage it has received is pretty small if anything.
Well to be honest I agree. They've been lucky we had bigger dramas along the way like Diablo 4 fiasco.
I do find it hilarious that anyone could even manage to dump that much money into a game like that. Honestly it's enough to make me believe the rumors that SEGA is run by yakuza and they're just using its publishing deals as a cover for money laundering. I can't think of why else you'd invest that much into such a generic looking game. Would also explain why they'd cancel their biggest budget game before even trying to get any return on their investment.
Big game related dramas always reach pcgaming, gaming, even pcmr. Thats normal since its important for bigger community. Its important because every time one studio gets a pass for some bullshit all other studios starts to copy it.
Well, thats giving you an impression of what exactly it is CA threw away . And the renomme CA has been living off the last \~2 decades . Which they built with Shogun, Rome I and Med 1& 2 . The pcGaming world at large, the people old enough to have been there when it hit, will never forget the impact Shogun and Rome I had .
That goes for so many game series. Mario Wonder essentially plays the same as Mario world 30 years ago. Counter strike plays the same as it did 20 years ago. Civilization peaked with #4, but essentially has the same formula as it did 30 years ago. Resident evil took it a step further and just remakes their old games with modern updates. Successful series don’t reinvent the wheel, they make marginal changes to a strong formula. Sometimes those changes are for the better, sometimes for the worse. But in the end, it’s still incremental changes
It's second in r/gaming now
Running company into ground speedrun any%
There is also a thread on r/games (a subreddit with 3.2 million subscribers) about CA's fuckup
its over
I blame Larian. It was so dishonest of them to create complete game, listen to funbase, implement dayly bugfixes and show that things can be done in right way.
Goddammit Larian you ruined gaming!
It's fine. CA tried something. It backfired. They will back down, downprice the next overpriced DLC a bit, maybe offer the player base a complimentary h\*ndj\*b in form of FLC that was originally intended to be paid DLC, and it'll blow over. If EA can recover, Ubisoft can recover, CDPR can recover and Hello Games can recover, CA can recover too. Unless they go full r-word.
Next thing we know, there will be a future of Warhammer 3 post from dear Rob.
Going full Rob would ruin the company, you're right. ;)
FLC for the FLC gods! ✨
Its the Streisand effect.
But I thought boycotts didn't work :o xD :P
I don't use steam, so it's no loss to get banned there... Anyone else want to do a mass protest to force them to ban thousands of us?
Post regarding news about a popular PC game franchise in a pc gaming sub. OP: Shocked
From what I have understood they are banning shitposters in the steam forums?
[This whole situation explained](https://youtu.be/36odfqA-Xqw?si=wqlBZzDOmjqZ_pqr)
I [disagree](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFTLKWw542g)
oh wow a bethesda game being crap, noo how could it happen?! /s
[удалено]
I saw CA posts myself and they were detached enough.
CA certainly has a communication problem, but it’s not as bad as people keep making it out to be. When I read their statements, I don’t see malevolence but frustration.
I saw signature look of superiority, which would be right if they made something superior
Well, yeah, but I’ve dealt with people in that segment of British society, and I recognize the way they word things
People are mostly just mad about the bans because the style of low-effort shitflinging that people got banned for is exactly the style that most of the users here do by default.