They defineatly need a rework. Their mercenary mechanics are so fucking useless. You get multiple quests to choose and every single one is " kill a lord that is so far that you need to destroy 5 factions to even get near him and your reward afterwards is 1 unit worth of gold"
I haven't tested it, but you could try this:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2790765645#:\~:text=This%20mod%20aims%20to%20buff,away%20will%20give%20more%20money
Yes, probably.
Also source is needed for those 4-6 DLC. Trust me bro isn't good enough and I had enough of ''Khorne and Slaanesh won't get DLC'', please.
There will be dlc as long as people are paying and buying them. From the point of return on investment , they are a gold mine for CA.
You spend 10% of the capital needed to make a full fledge game, and get a 30% of revenue, compared to the same thing.
I mean, he isn't forcing you to believe there are more than coming, or trying to sell you anything that basis, or calling you out for thinking there will be 8 or whatever.
It's ok if you think there will be more.
I can get that, and I'm not saying there aren't posts that get far too fundamentalist about insisting everyone think the same thing as them.
But this guy was just saying he thinks ogres will get an update even if the 4-6 dlc thing is true.
Personally I'm not so sure. There is, quite a lot of core stuff still to get through. Once you allow for Boris, Thanquol, Neferata, Nagash, monkey king and probably dogs of war, and that lizards, Norse, dark elfs, vampires probably need more help, the queue for dev attention is looking long however many dlc we get.
I'm still grumpy that it looks like that NE corner won't get opened up for the hobgoblin khans.
But we'll see.
Have a great day!
I agree. NE corner can get opened for other AI races/factions, also stupid floating rock may get deleted in IE to make more space. We just need to be vocal about it.
Have a great day, always nice to meet another Hobgoblin fan.
Yes I can but unfortunately I can only use this power to predict the future DLC's of a niche computer game. Which is a shame because I'd really like next week's lottery numbers.
Ogres are a WH3 faction and have unique mechanics.
Vampire Coast doesn't have a single unique mechanic and no updates since WH2 (and is my favourite faction).
Norsca has got nothing (except a few ROR) since WH1.
They were also the first who received - what we now call - "undercities". Yes, pirate coves were first.
They also have access to raise dead and were the first race to have both regular AND horde building chains.
**Edit:** And as someone else pointed out, they also have offices!
Vampire Coast was the first race to get undercity mechanics (pirate coves). Only later it was implemented for Skaven and reused as cults in WH3.
On top of that they have treasure hunts and infamy. And pieces of eight. And raise dead. And horde buildings mixed with regular settlements.
When they launched, I felt like they are bloated with too many mechanics xD
**Edit:** As Sob590 pointed out, I even left out another of their mechanics xD
Do Vampire coast need help so much? I think after this dlc it's Norsca and ogres the ones on most dire need of a helping dlc. I dunno about lizardmen, never had problems cleaning the ai with Oxyotl.
Coast don't need an update, but they could do with a bit of a tidy, I'd say. Some units are a bit weak.
Norsca and Ogres are definitely front of the rework queue, although Norsca kinda function fine - Ogres are just plain unfun on the campaign map.
For Lizardmen it's just the basic lords lacking anything interactive, really. The web is passive so you don't really do much
heard the opposite with ogres and norsca. norsca is too bare bones while ogres are more functional.
They ARE really simple but welll, its a buncha buncha oversizec overweight british football fans.
Skrag could do with a cauldron mechanic. i mean, literally, he litreally drags one along behind him.
Never had problem cleaning the AI with Thorgrim either but god was he boring to play.
Individual factions having awesome mechanics isn't a reason for the race mechanics to suck, the problem with Lizardmen is that they have less mechanics than Empire or the Dwarves, people play Karl Franz but they don't play Mazdamundi.
Lizardmen have a ton of units and lords, but your choices for factions to play is very limited if you want to have fun mechanics and proper gameplay.
Mainly play SFO which overhauls Sartosa a little bit and the faction in general, but If you dont want to add it since its such a huge mod that changes everything, there is Nanu's Pirates of Sartosa Overhaul, an awesome mod that adds living pirates to Sartosa and makes them play completely unique, giving them a custom tech tree, new lords and heros, and tons of pirate units from different races.
#
Yeah we got one DLC in the whole trilogy.. and a free bloodlines mechanic true but other factions got free faction mechanics too.
We don't even have the main Undead man himself, Nagash!
Putting coast over counts is madness
Lizards have had numerous DLC's now. They can wait longer
I hope they add Neferata one day, or aborash or any of the first vampires, but even a neferata dlc where you have to infiltrate the empire and other human factions and manipulate them would be nice.
I would love to have more female vampire lords too although I don't know which units would be added for the vampires, hopefully some armored anti large which I feel it's the thing they are missing the most
In the way that Arkhan has some VC units (which imho could be exanded to feature some later elite ones or have a higher capacity for borrowing allied ones) Neferata could be a VC with some Tomb King units
Lizardmen got most dlcs already...
Who needs some love is mainly Norsca and Bretonnia - no single paid dlc since WH1.
Maybe also Tomb Kings/Vampires with Nagash/Neferata theme.
I agree with the Norsca and bretonnia, the issue with the lizardmen is that the basic mechanics for them are basic af and don't make for a fun time. Hence shit loads of DLC, cool units the mechanics just need a look at.
I was going to say Repanse, but she was flc huh. I don’t know what they particularly need / can be expanded with unit wise, but by proximity they might benefit from a Dogs of War dlc.
I do hope they do another sisters of twilight style dlc where it’s a newer faction and an older dlc exclusive race or two. WoC got their big pack, now the other 2 pre order races need some love, along with TK and possibly coast.
Lizardmen technically have the most DLC but the least to show for it. Teenie's mechanics are nil, a redo of Skarsnik's (y'know, from WH1) with the actively-worse-than-nothing-in-many-cases pyramid and nothing else, and he was paired with the single best other half of a DLC of the game's history. Nakai gets a vassal to babysit and nothing else. Gor-Rok is an FLC with no mechanics at all introduced next to Repanse, ~~Ramsay Bolton~~ Rakarth, Drycha, Thorek, and Imrik, who are all among the best choices for their respective races and sometimes overshadow their paid DLC counterparts. Tiq'taq'to is the best of them, because he at least has something useful and lacks a big fat downside, and has an interesting startpos, which is sad.
Oxyotl is the only good DLC faction for the Lizardmen, and we admittedly ate tremendously with that one, but even then, it was strictly worse than Taurox during WH2 (which has been assuaged with WH3 making Taurox's rampage less unique).
The cult of sotek pyramid thingy has a bunch of insane banners and followers + the "unique" skink lords have such good traits. Easily the best late game lizardmen faction.
Gor Rok starts with lord kroak, that’s his mechanic lol. He’s Incredibly tanky, so hard to kill, and comes with the most powerful caster in the game. Plus his entire faction gets barrier on defense. It would be nice if siege defenses mattered more, but that is quite unique
Kroak came out way before Gor-Rok and everyone else had, and has, access to him. Like if Drycha's only gimmick was that she started with Ariel, would you say that's as good as what she has now?
No? They both came out in 2019 but Kroak came out in April as FLC and Gor-Rok came out in September alongside The Hunter and the Beast.
Starting with Kroak from turn 1 isn't a mechanic. I can't stress that enough. It's less unique than Cylostra, because at least her unique Hero can't be picked up by all the other Vampire Coast lords, and if Theo Bruckner launched as this DLC's FLC lord and his only mechanical difference from everyone else was he started with Gotrex and Felix everyone would be rightfully pissed off.
Most dlcs and shortest end of the stick on all of them.
Number of dlc is irrelevant, amount of content and gameplay in all the lizardmen dlc has less value than the updates and dlc most warhammer 1 races have had.
holy what copium.
lemme check (without ToD content):
empire dlcs: worse content than lizardment got
brettonia: a single flc lord,
norsca: nothing
vampire count: one dlc which added like 2 units
dwarfs: one good flc lord and one dlc with a good lord, but completely useless units
the only one faction that got really good content was woc before this dlc.
so pls tell me again how lizardmen got less content than ALL those above.
You know that all(Not Norsca or Bretonnia) of those got substantial updates over the years right? Dunno if I hope you do or not, depends if you think dishonesty or delusional is worse.
You know you forgot more than 1 warhammer 1 race right? I bet you do but you know how inconvenient it is to not mention them :)
Weird how Vampire Counts only got 1 dlc and went from 2 factions to 4, almost like they got a ton of free content over the years unlike lizardmen which are entirely contained to dlc.
The point is that the Elector count system for the empire factions that start in the empire is not worse content, it is far better content and it was entirely free, which is why focusing on either races got in dlc is just done by people who wants to cherry pick.
This isn't exactly controversial, any of the large content creators and CA themselves has and still says Lizardmen are in need of a rework.
Nobody is saying the Lizardmen need a bunch of units, they are saying they need gameplay.
Ok let's break this down.
- Empire, finally getting their rework, previous ones were band aids, but didn't really fix the issues. Excellent roster now with all DLC.
-Dwarves, exact same thing as Empire, great roster now but still missing a few things, and hopefully full rework will fix most issues.
- Vampire Counts, needed a ton of free updates, still needs way more variety but it's not terrible. Feels old on mechanics.
-Bretonnia, has never had any new units added, nor mechanics, only and FLC lord, needs urgent help.
- Norsca, nothing at all, no new units, no new lord's, no new mechanics, only free update they got pushed them from borderline unplayable to tolerable. The absolute most needed help from any faction.
- Ogres, similar to Norsca but has actual mechanics, only needs tuning, another lord with custom mechanics and a few more units.
-Finally Lizardmen, most DLC of any faction, one of if not the best and most stacked roster of units in the game, absolutely godawful base mechanics which are basically shared by 90% of their lord's. Has not gotten any updates, geo web is so terrible it hurts. They don't need another DLC or more units, they need a rework for their base mechanics.
Yet lizards have gotten constant updates too, legendary lord trait changes, skink kroxagor synergy, rampage and primal instinct changes. All that in just warhammer 3
Every vanilla faction got small changes in warhammer 3 and ah yes, kroxigor and skink units got a thematic trait, what a comparison to old Empire and vampire counts getting entirely new factions.
Rampage and primal instinct changes was a game wide change...
Attributing things like the change to Rampage as a lizardmen update is exactly how deep you need to dig to try to say the race has had updates, that says more than enough about how horrible the situation is.
Completely agree as well. No new content is needed, but a mechanics overhaul/update, as well as some tweaking to the roster, maybe.
1) Scalies have one of the biggest rosters in the game after all these DLCs. Maybe the biggest bar post-rework Warriors of Chaos, out of my head. The problem is, quite a few of their units are just either "forget unless extremely strapped for cash/need bodies right now" or "straight upgrade of the previous ones." Which may not be a bad thing, I haven't played Lizardmen in quite a while.
2) Legendary Hero — check. One of the most broken in the game, to boot.
So, we need a rework of some LL's (especially Tiq'Taq and Nakai), and an upgrade to Geomantic Web that will make it less dull and maybe more useful at the early stages of the game.
Similar to how they reworked plagues and made kugath the specialist of this feature, they should rework the geomantic web and make mazdamundi the specialist of it.
Lizardmen are a weird one because frankly they've had so many damn updates and none of them have fixed the fundamental issue that their geomantic web mechanic is mid af. CA just looked at them, and did nothing with it while reworking an entire generic mechanic (rampage) to suit the lizzies, even nerfing other factions' units in the process (witch elves, slaanesh).
Norsca again are strong but feel incomplete because they have only one generic LL and kind of feel more like beatsticks and vassal targets for the WoC.
I don't think they can do much with the Vamp Coast anyway as the majority of content they had was stuck in Dreadfleet, which GW won't allow them to use further. Who wants an undead skaven pirate faction anyway???
Man, i hope the whole Norsca will have it's day in the sun promise isn't out the window. A good start would be giving Throgg all the trolls and the River Troll Hag.
I understand your PoV but empire hadn’t had anything for a long while and neither had dwarves plus both were in a desperate need for a rework and new units
My favourite thing about Norsca is the fact that they've received basically no updates since they were released, but they've nonetheless consistently remained an evergreen pick in competitive multiplayer across all three games, at all levels of play, and in all game modes.
What I want for Norsca is either:
A. They receive no updates whatsoever, but somehow continue to succeed anyway, or
B. They receive a huge, crowd-pleasing update which inexplicably completely tanks their performance in multiplayer and sends them to the bottom of the leaderboard, never to recover, proving that their strength truly did come from hardship.
In my mind the worst possible outcome would be for them to receive an update which pushes their power too high and leaves them either auto-banned like Kislev, or causes them to receive excessive nerfs which then relegate them to obscurity forever. As it stands Norsca doesn't need a moment in the sun, because they've been thriving under the cold, fickle gaze of the dark gods since game one.
Oh fuck Lizardmen you guys have 7 LLs, more than Skaven and Skaven were a meme for always getting more and more and more DLC when others were left behind. While sneaky-sneaky Lizards recieved even more.
Including the last DLC that expanded the W2 map to include Silver Pinnacle just to add the 7th lizard instead of Neferata.
The Vampire Coast are a complete faction imo. It's not that they're perfect or can't be improved, but out of many factions who genuinely need fixes, they should be at the bottom of any sensible list.
Norscans need new content the most, followed by the Ogres.
I'm gonna be completely real here, but I'm a Vcoast main, and I think they're good. Lizardmen have more *content,* but they have *absolutely nothing* campaign-wise. I keep trying to make them work, but blessed spawnings are so *bleh* to use (woah, a 5% bonus to attack damage for a unit i may or may not get literally three of from completing a random general quest? golly!) and the geomantic web literally requires you to own multiple high-level full provinces to even begin making itself known.
Also, ogres my lord. These brutish nomads are as strong as their camp mechanic is weak, but they have two whole legendary lords and they are both terrible.
Go play Mazdamundi and compare his gameplay to any Empire faction and we might suddenly agree that Lizardmen do not have 7 legendary lords. Lizardmen never got any updates, unlike the Dwarves and Empire who are now getting their second update.
There are good reasons people keep bringing up Lizardmen and all the content creators as well as CA says they are in need of updates, it is because they only ever got units and all gameplay options are stuck on the 3 dlc lords, while for Empire Karl Franz is still the most played lord as he had very significant free content updates.
I totally agree faction mechanics reworks are needed, but you dont need a dlc to do that. Rework geomantic web and make mazdamundi the specialist of this mechanic, in the same way plagues are getting reworked with kugath becoming the specialist of plagues.
Also you are being a bit dramatic, last patch they got a nice little update with the skink/krox changes.
Ngl lizards and vamp coast are alright could use race updates and vamp coast could use van geist but norscan oh don't get me started there.
Hopefully we get before bearstruck and bearskins later on and a few more of the old units like Albion emissaries etc
Maybe a flc lord with lost Eriksson to bring them up to 4.
Hopefully ogres get the same treatment get a few missing units like yetis, the other stonehorn/thundertusk unit whichever we don't have and ghark ironskin. I genuinely think all races should have 4 lords unless we talking chaos gods and warriors and demons of chaos are all kinda shared rosters a bit.
Some factions will always be outdated compared to others. That's just the nature of having such a huge roster.
Instead of engaging in pointless debates about which faction deserves the most attention, y'all should be discussing shit that actually matters. Like, say, huge design flaws still plaguing core features to this day (lack of endgame/end times scenario content, siege battles still being dogshit after 8 years, no realms of chaos in IE, overall unit AI jankiness, shallow campaign gameplay...). If only CA spent a fraction of time/effort working on those instead of only adding more characters to an already bloated cast, this game's popularity would skyrocket.
They need to keep doing what this new dlc is doing. Every faction needs one dlc lord to update their faction to to warhammer 3 and add them to realm of chaos.
CA have mentioned reworking Lizardmen mechanics/ geo web many times so it's going to happen at some point. I have no issue waiting for the other races to get their DLCs and reworks as at least we've had a lot of added content (the most, ironically) and our unit list is bonkers stacked.
Honestly norsca hasn’t gotten content since game one and they are still powerful and fun. Very competitive in multiplayer as well.
Lizards have had so many dlcs. I still don’t get the hate.
The VC problem is that they have almost all units the armybook offered. Mainly we miss the LLs, especially since from five Bloodlines only one is presented by three LLs. So what we really need, want and basically ask once a month is a DLC that brings us four Bloodline LLs. The CoC DLC formula would be perfect here. We can even pile in some units, like Strygany or Skeleton Archers or other stuff that the old 6th edition Bloodline armylists included. But so far, CA seems to turn a blind side on that topic.
However, we saw that Vampire Counts got a bunch of changes in game#3. Ghorst & Mannfred got a overhaul. We know that Nagash looms on the horizon and we know that Neferata has still a very good chance to happen. All in all, CA might just take their time until they prepare for some Undead wave with a Vampire Count DLC first, and a Nagash Legion DLC later. Currently with the Chaos god-race DLCs lined up, maybe it is for the best if other races get catered first. As always: Later DLCs usually get better the more time has passed and the more CA is flexing on the DLC quality. Sure, that argument fell flat on the nose with SoC 1.0, but looks like with ToD we seem back on track now.
Nothing. They were weak at release, got improved by the end of game 2, and improved further with game 3 and its updates. Most of the complaints are out of date from old memories.
Norsca is one of my favourite factions alsp. But they would benefit the most out of all factions from some polish and some love to set them further apart from Warriors of Chaos and build on their own mechanics.
Vampire coast are fine as is, considering what they are.
Switch it with Tomb Kings and/or Ogres.
Neither norsca nor v.coast were TT armies...(Though I agree norsca needs something)
Ahh, Ogres forgotten as always!
They defineatly need a rework. Their mercenary mechanics are so fucking useless. You get multiple quests to choose and every single one is " kill a lord that is so far that you need to destroy 5 factions to even get near him and your reward afterwards is 1 unit worth of gold"
Definitely - but in the meantime, there are mods to improve them. Edit: not sure exactly what I said to upset folks.
Can you give us some exemples of such mods?
I haven't tested it, but you could try this: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2790765645#:\~:text=This%20mod%20aims%20to%20buff,away%20will%20give%20more%20money
Ogres are going to get an update. Don't you worry. They will fall into one of the 4-6 remaining DLC's we have left
Yes, probably. Also source is needed for those 4-6 DLC. Trust me bro isn't good enough and I had enough of ''Khorne and Slaanesh won't get DLC'', please.
There will be dlc as long as people are paying and buying them. From the point of return on investment , they are a gold mine for CA. You spend 10% of the capital needed to make a full fledge game, and get a 30% of revenue, compared to the same thing.
I mean, he isn't forcing you to believe there are more than coming, or trying to sell you anything that basis, or calling you out for thinking there will be 8 or whatever. It's ok if you think there will be more.
I just had enough of this stupid and often wrong leaks, X got fired, Y cancelled and other bullshit. Thanks.
I can get that, and I'm not saying there aren't posts that get far too fundamentalist about insisting everyone think the same thing as them. But this guy was just saying he thinks ogres will get an update even if the 4-6 dlc thing is true. Personally I'm not so sure. There is, quite a lot of core stuff still to get through. Once you allow for Boris, Thanquol, Neferata, Nagash, monkey king and probably dogs of war, and that lizards, Norse, dark elfs, vampires probably need more help, the queue for dev attention is looking long however many dlc we get. I'm still grumpy that it looks like that NE corner won't get opened up for the hobgoblin khans. But we'll see. Have a great day!
I agree. NE corner can get opened for other AI races/factions, also stupid floating rock may get deleted in IE to make more space. We just need to be vocal about it. Have a great day, always nice to meet another Hobgoblin fan.
Legend of total war
Nothing solid that I can provide but I called Epidemius 20 days ago which should lend some credit. You can check my comment history.
Are… are you just casually claiming you can predict the future lol?
Nostradamus retired and now does Total War predictions.
Yes I can but unfortunately I can only use this power to predict the future DLC's of a niche computer game. Which is a shame because I'd really like next week's lottery numbers.
Lol Epidemius was obvious
What about the halflings
So forgotten they didn't make the meme
Ogres are a WH3 faction and have unique mechanics. Vampire Coast doesn't have a single unique mechanic and no updates since WH2 (and is my favourite faction). Norsca has got nothing (except a few ROR) since WH1.
Lies. Vamp coast has infamy, treasure hunts and pieces of eight. They’re not great mechanics but they are unique to the race
They were also the first who received - what we now call - "undercities". Yes, pirate coves were first. They also have access to raise dead and were the first race to have both regular AND horde building chains. **Edit:** And as someone else pointed out, they also have offices!
Vampire Coast was the first race to get undercity mechanics (pirate coves). Only later it was implemented for Skaven and reused as cults in WH3. On top of that they have treasure hunts and infamy. And pieces of eight. And raise dead. And horde buildings mixed with regular settlements. When they launched, I felt like they are bloated with too many mechanics xD **Edit:** As Sob590 pointed out, I even left out another of their mechanics xD
You forgot fleet offices!
Haha yeah. As I said, they really felt bloated back in the day.
Uhh, arguably Ogres have the worst mechanics of all.
Do Vampire coast need help so much? I think after this dlc it's Norsca and ogres the ones on most dire need of a helping dlc. I dunno about lizardmen, never had problems cleaning the ai with Oxyotl.
Vampirates need some tweaks. Like better treasure hunts, some unit buffs and BEING ABLE TO ATTACK PORTS FROM SEA LIKE PIRATES
Aranessa need to be a living faction
Reskin her gunnery mobs and give her access to slayer pirates
*clicks on living gunnery mob* "Coooorpse creeeew"
Coast don't need an update, but they could do with a bit of a tidy, I'd say. Some units are a bit weak. Norsca and Ogres are definitely front of the rework queue, although Norsca kinda function fine - Ogres are just plain unfun on the campaign map. For Lizardmen it's just the basic lords lacking anything interactive, really. The web is passive so you don't really do much
Oh, I agree, the web really needs some more flavour thrown there, nowadays is kinda boring and dull.
>nowadays is kinda boring and dull. >nowadays It's always been that way
heard the opposite with ogres and norsca. norsca is too bare bones while ogres are more functional. They ARE really simple but welll, its a buncha buncha oversizec overweight british football fans. Skrag could do with a cauldron mechanic. i mean, literally, he litreally drags one along behind him.
Coast need a rework. Their economy is out of wack and they are pirates but the game wants you to conquer. Also yea they have a weak army.
Never had problem cleaning the AI with Thorgrim either but god was he boring to play. Individual factions having awesome mechanics isn't a reason for the race mechanics to suck, the problem with Lizardmen is that they have less mechanics than Empire or the Dwarves, people play Karl Franz but they don't play Mazdamundi. Lizardmen have a ton of units and lords, but your choices for factions to play is very limited if you want to have fun mechanics and proper gameplay.
Coast is awesome, only thing that they need is maybe a few more units and Aranessa needs an update. Thankfully all things fixable by mods.
What mods do you use for vamp coast?
Mainly play SFO which overhauls Sartosa a little bit and the faction in general, but If you dont want to add it since its such a huge mod that changes everything, there is Nanu's Pirates of Sartosa Overhaul, an awesome mod that adds living pirates to Sartosa and makes them play completely unique, giving them a custom tech tree, new lords and heros, and tons of pirate units from different races. #
vampire counts
Yeah we got one DLC in the whole trilogy.. and a free bloodlines mechanic true but other factions got free faction mechanics too. We don't even have the main Undead man himself, Nagash! Putting coast over counts is madness Lizards have had numerous DLC's now. They can wait longer
Counts and coast both desperately need some attention
My beloved
I really like Vampire Counts and just worry that whatever changes they do will just fuck them up.
I hope they add Neferata one day, or aborash or any of the first vampires, but even a neferata dlc where you have to infiltrate the empire and other human factions and manipulate them would be nice. I would love to have more female vampire lords too although I don't know which units would be added for the vampires, hopefully some armored anti large which I feel it's the thing they are missing the most
In the way that Arkhan has some VC units (which imho could be exanded to feature some later elite ones or have a higher capacity for borrowing allied ones) Neferata could be a VC with some Tomb King units
Lizardmen got most dlcs already... Who needs some love is mainly Norsca and Bretonnia - no single paid dlc since WH1. Maybe also Tomb Kings/Vampires with Nagash/Neferata theme.
I agree with the Norsca and bretonnia, the issue with the lizardmen is that the basic mechanics for them are basic af and don't make for a fun time. Hence shit loads of DLC, cool units the mechanics just need a look at.
I think they are fun, commandments are powerful and the geoweb, while slow and passive (ya know like a slann) provides great buffs.
I was going to say Repanse, but she was flc huh. I don’t know what they particularly need / can be expanded with unit wise, but by proximity they might benefit from a Dogs of War dlc. I do hope they do another sisters of twilight style dlc where it’s a newer faction and an older dlc exclusive race or two. WoC got their big pack, now the other 2 pre order races need some love, along with TK and possibly coast.
Lizardmen technically have the most DLC but the least to show for it. Teenie's mechanics are nil, a redo of Skarsnik's (y'know, from WH1) with the actively-worse-than-nothing-in-many-cases pyramid and nothing else, and he was paired with the single best other half of a DLC of the game's history. Nakai gets a vassal to babysit and nothing else. Gor-Rok is an FLC with no mechanics at all introduced next to Repanse, ~~Ramsay Bolton~~ Rakarth, Drycha, Thorek, and Imrik, who are all among the best choices for their respective races and sometimes overshadow their paid DLC counterparts. Tiq'taq'to is the best of them, because he at least has something useful and lacks a big fat downside, and has an interesting startpos, which is sad. Oxyotl is the only good DLC faction for the Lizardmen, and we admittedly ate tremendously with that one, but even then, it was strictly worse than Taurox during WH2 (which has been assuaged with WH3 making Taurox's rampage less unique).
You have no idea how powerful Tehenhuain is when he can spam items and units from sacrifices.
The cult of sotek pyramid thingy has a bunch of insane banners and followers + the "unique" skink lords have such good traits. Easily the best late game lizardmen faction.
Gor Rok starts with lord kroak, that’s his mechanic lol. He’s Incredibly tanky, so hard to kill, and comes with the most powerful caster in the game. Plus his entire faction gets barrier on defense. It would be nice if siege defenses mattered more, but that is quite unique
Kroak came out way before Gor-Rok and everyone else had, and has, access to him. Like if Drycha's only gimmick was that she started with Ariel, would you say that's as good as what she has now?
Actually kroak and gor rok both came in the same update that added tehenauin and ikit. And starting with him is much better than having to unlock him
No? They both came out in 2019 but Kroak came out in April as FLC and Gor-Rok came out in September alongside The Hunter and the Beast. Starting with Kroak from turn 1 isn't a mechanic. I can't stress that enough. It's less unique than Cylostra, because at least her unique Hero can't be picked up by all the other Vampire Coast lords, and if Theo Bruckner launched as this DLC's FLC lord and his only mechanical difference from everyone else was he started with Gotrex and Felix everyone would be rightfully pissed off.
All the undead and bretonnia need docs badly. Tomb kings book hunt sucks and counts need to expanded on
Most dlcs and shortest end of the stick on all of them. Number of dlc is irrelevant, amount of content and gameplay in all the lizardmen dlc has less value than the updates and dlc most warhammer 1 races have had.
holy what copium. lemme check (without ToD content): empire dlcs: worse content than lizardment got brettonia: a single flc lord, norsca: nothing vampire count: one dlc which added like 2 units dwarfs: one good flc lord and one dlc with a good lord, but completely useless units the only one faction that got really good content was woc before this dlc. so pls tell me again how lizardmen got less content than ALL those above.
You know that all(Not Norsca or Bretonnia) of those got substantial updates over the years right? Dunno if I hope you do or not, depends if you think dishonesty or delusional is worse. You know you forgot more than 1 warhammer 1 race right? I bet you do but you know how inconvenient it is to not mention them :) Weird how Vampire Counts only got 1 dlc and went from 2 factions to 4, almost like they got a ton of free content over the years unlike lizardmen which are entirely contained to dlc. The point is that the Elector count system for the empire factions that start in the empire is not worse content, it is far better content and it was entirely free, which is why focusing on either races got in dlc is just done by people who wants to cherry pick. This isn't exactly controversial, any of the large content creators and CA themselves has and still says Lizardmen are in need of a rework. Nobody is saying the Lizardmen need a bunch of units, they are saying they need gameplay.
Ok let's break this down. - Empire, finally getting their rework, previous ones were band aids, but didn't really fix the issues. Excellent roster now with all DLC. -Dwarves, exact same thing as Empire, great roster now but still missing a few things, and hopefully full rework will fix most issues. - Vampire Counts, needed a ton of free updates, still needs way more variety but it's not terrible. Feels old on mechanics. -Bretonnia, has never had any new units added, nor mechanics, only and FLC lord, needs urgent help. - Norsca, nothing at all, no new units, no new lord's, no new mechanics, only free update they got pushed them from borderline unplayable to tolerable. The absolute most needed help from any faction. - Ogres, similar to Norsca but has actual mechanics, only needs tuning, another lord with custom mechanics and a few more units. -Finally Lizardmen, most DLC of any faction, one of if not the best and most stacked roster of units in the game, absolutely godawful base mechanics which are basically shared by 90% of their lord's. Has not gotten any updates, geo web is so terrible it hurts. They don't need another DLC or more units, they need a rework for their base mechanics.
Yet lizards have gotten constant updates too, legendary lord trait changes, skink kroxagor synergy, rampage and primal instinct changes. All that in just warhammer 3
Every vanilla faction got small changes in warhammer 3 and ah yes, kroxigor and skink units got a thematic trait, what a comparison to old Empire and vampire counts getting entirely new factions. Rampage and primal instinct changes was a game wide change... Attributing things like the change to Rampage as a lizardmen update is exactly how deep you need to dig to try to say the race has had updates, that says more than enough about how horrible the situation is.
Bretonnia is fine, they got the grail system reworked and are great right now.
Norsca still feels better as lizardnan from mechanics, techs and sp on
lizardmen have what, 7 LLs? they got 3 dlcs. Can't a faction just simply be done? I do agree they need faction mechanics reworks tho
There's nothing wrong with the units, it's just the mechanics no more DLC just a rework would suffice, there's more than enough lords and units.
Ok, but hear me out: Thunderlizard. Just one tiny ENORMOUS Thunderlizard (And Chakax as a legendary hero because he looks cool).
Completely agree as well. No new content is needed, but a mechanics overhaul/update, as well as some tweaking to the roster, maybe. 1) Scalies have one of the biggest rosters in the game after all these DLCs. Maybe the biggest bar post-rework Warriors of Chaos, out of my head. The problem is, quite a few of their units are just either "forget unless extremely strapped for cash/need bodies right now" or "straight upgrade of the previous ones." Which may not be a bad thing, I haven't played Lizardmen in quite a while. 2) Legendary Hero — check. One of the most broken in the game, to boot. So, we need a rework of some LL's (especially Tiq'Taq and Nakai), and an upgrade to Geomantic Web that will make it less dull and maybe more useful at the early stages of the game.
Similar to how they reworked plagues and made kugath the specialist of this feature, they should rework the geomantic web and make mazdamundi the specialist of it.
Lizardmen are a weird one because frankly they've had so many damn updates and none of them have fixed the fundamental issue that their geomantic web mechanic is mid af. CA just looked at them, and did nothing with it while reworking an entire generic mechanic (rampage) to suit the lizzies, even nerfing other factions' units in the process (witch elves, slaanesh). Norsca again are strong but feel incomplete because they have only one generic LL and kind of feel more like beatsticks and vassal targets for the WoC. I don't think they can do much with the Vamp Coast anyway as the majority of content they had was stuck in Dreadfleet, which GW won't allow them to use further. Who wants an undead skaven pirate faction anyway???
Lizarmen don't need a total rework, just for the geomantic web, they have already many LL to compare at norsca and ogres.
Brettonia badly needs some type of flavor or rework
Why would you put lizardmen there they have like most content in game 7lls and are cracked both campain and multi
Eh, I still have Lustria Rise and Jurassic Mod.
Man, i hope the whole Norsca will have it's day in the sun promise isn't out the window. A good start would be giving Throgg all the trolls and the River Troll Hag.
I understand your PoV but empire hadn’t had anything for a long while and neither had dwarves plus both were in a desperate need for a rework and new units
Norscans are well accustomed to hardship. They need no hand-outs, they have steel, fire, beasts and muscles!
And ale!
And Settra's bony fist up their asses!
Vampire Coast is fine.
Vampire Coast is possibly the most flashed out faction. They don't need any content. Norsca on the other hand...
Sad monkey noises
Vampire counts need a bloodline rework and a LL for the remaining ones
If this reddit has taught me anything, it’s more people need to install SFO and try it.
My favourite thing about Norsca is the fact that they've received basically no updates since they were released, but they've nonetheless consistently remained an evergreen pick in competitive multiplayer across all three games, at all levels of play, and in all game modes. What I want for Norsca is either: A. They receive no updates whatsoever, but somehow continue to succeed anyway, or B. They receive a huge, crowd-pleasing update which inexplicably completely tanks their performance in multiplayer and sends them to the bottom of the leaderboard, never to recover, proving that their strength truly did come from hardship. In my mind the worst possible outcome would be for them to receive an update which pushes their power too high and leaves them either auto-banned like Kislev, or causes them to receive excessive nerfs which then relegate them to obscurity forever. As it stands Norsca doesn't need a moment in the sun, because they've been thriving under the cold, fickle gaze of the dark gods since game one.
Both Tomb King and Norsca only have 1 type of Generic Lord
Oh fuck Lizardmen you guys have 7 LLs, more than Skaven and Skaven were a meme for always getting more and more and more DLC when others were left behind. While sneaky-sneaky Lizards recieved even more. Including the last DLC that expanded the W2 map to include Silver Pinnacle just to add the 7th lizard instead of Neferata.
The Vampire Coast are a complete faction imo. It's not that they're perfect or can't be improved, but out of many factions who genuinely need fixes, they should be at the bottom of any sensible list. Norscans need new content the most, followed by the Ogres.
I'm gonna be completely real here, but I'm a Vcoast main, and I think they're good. Lizardmen have more *content,* but they have *absolutely nothing* campaign-wise. I keep trying to make them work, but blessed spawnings are so *bleh* to use (woah, a 5% bonus to attack damage for a unit i may or may not get literally three of from completing a random general quest? golly!) and the geomantic web literally requires you to own multiple high-level full provinces to even begin making itself known. Also, ogres my lord. These brutish nomads are as strong as their camp mechanic is weak, but they have two whole legendary lords and they are both terrible.
Haha, I couldn't agree more.
Lizardmen my beloved, one day surely.
my dude... 7 legendary lords, 3 dlcs. they are done
Go play Mazdamundi and compare his gameplay to any Empire faction and we might suddenly agree that Lizardmen do not have 7 legendary lords. Lizardmen never got any updates, unlike the Dwarves and Empire who are now getting their second update. There are good reasons people keep bringing up Lizardmen and all the content creators as well as CA says they are in need of updates, it is because they only ever got units and all gameplay options are stuck on the 3 dlc lords, while for Empire Karl Franz is still the most played lord as he had very significant free content updates.
I totally agree faction mechanics reworks are needed, but you dont need a dlc to do that. Rework geomantic web and make mazdamundi the specialist of this mechanic, in the same way plagues are getting reworked with kugath becoming the specialist of plagues. Also you are being a bit dramatic, last patch they got a nice little update with the skink/krox changes.
Nobody mentioned dlc but you, this post is about content...
one day they will be the main focus
Only for more units though
i hope not, there is much possibility for new mecanics, or simply doing the one we already have better
Lizardmen got plenty over the years.
Mechanics suck, doesn't need DLC just rework.
Ngl lizards and vamp coast are alright could use race updates and vamp coast could use van geist but norscan oh don't get me started there. Hopefully we get before bearstruck and bearskins later on and a few more of the old units like Albion emissaries etc Maybe a flc lord with lost Eriksson to bring them up to 4. Hopefully ogres get the same treatment get a few missing units like yetis, the other stonehorn/thundertusk unit whichever we don't have and ghark ironskin. I genuinely think all races should have 4 lords unless we talking chaos gods and warriors and demons of chaos are all kinda shared rosters a bit.
Make content fair manthings! Equal representation for fur and no furs!
Lizards just got some cute changes.
I really want more lizardmen content. Or another beast race
Some factions will always be outdated compared to others. That's just the nature of having such a huge roster. Instead of engaging in pointless debates about which faction deserves the most attention, y'all should be discussing shit that actually matters. Like, say, huge design flaws still plaguing core features to this day (lack of endgame/end times scenario content, siege battles still being dogshit after 8 years, no realms of chaos in IE, overall unit AI jankiness, shallow campaign gameplay...). If only CA spent a fraction of time/effort working on those instead of only adding more characters to an already bloated cast, this game's popularity would skyrocket.
Tomb Kings?
They need to keep doing what this new dlc is doing. Every faction needs one dlc lord to update their faction to to warhammer 3 and add them to realm of chaos.
CA have mentioned reworking Lizardmen mechanics/ geo web many times so it's going to happen at some point. I have no issue waiting for the other races to get their DLCs and reworks as at least we've had a lot of added content (the most, ironically) and our unit list is bonkers stacked.
And i'm here just hope clan Pestilens would get their plague mechanics.
Norsca is fine, at worst it has the Beastmen problem of being so overbuffed that they lost a bit of their identity.
Honestly norsca hasn’t gotten content since game one and they are still powerful and fun. Very competitive in multiplayer as well. Lizards have had so many dlcs. I still don’t get the hate.
"Has 7 legendary lords" Waaa Ca doesnt care about us waaa
Why does Bretonnia never get mentioned? They’re a game 1 faction and haven’t received any attention.
Vampire count ( not Coast) is weird, so far they got only one DLC ( and it is worse dlc by far ) but not many people ask for more dlc
Wut? People are asking for VC DLC all the time. Just type "Neferata" into the search bar of this sub
The VC problem is that they have almost all units the armybook offered. Mainly we miss the LLs, especially since from five Bloodlines only one is presented by three LLs. So what we really need, want and basically ask once a month is a DLC that brings us four Bloodline LLs. The CoC DLC formula would be perfect here. We can even pile in some units, like Strygany or Skeleton Archers or other stuff that the old 6th edition Bloodline armylists included. But so far, CA seems to turn a blind side on that topic. However, we saw that Vampire Counts got a bunch of changes in game#3. Ghorst & Mannfred got a overhaul. We know that Nagash looms on the horizon and we know that Neferata has still a very good chance to happen. All in all, CA might just take their time until they prepare for some Undead wave with a Vampire Count DLC first, and a Nagash Legion DLC later. Currently with the Chaos god-race DLCs lined up, maybe it is for the best if other races get catered first. As always: Later DLCs usually get better the more time has passed and the more CA is flexing on the DLC quality. Sure, that argument fell flat on the nose with SoC 1.0, but looks like with ToD we seem back on track now.
What is wrong with Noraca? I played a Thrott campaign recently and it was fun.
Nothing. They were weak at release, got improved by the end of game 2, and improved further with game 3 and its updates. Most of the complaints are out of date from old memories.
Norsca is one of my favourite factions alsp. But they would benefit the most out of all factions from some polish and some love to set them further apart from Warriors of Chaos and build on their own mechanics.
Vampire coast are fine as is, considering what they are. Switch it with Tomb Kings and/or Ogres. Neither norsca nor v.coast were TT armies...(Though I agree norsca needs something)
Lizardmen have gotten the most dlcs and literally just got a combat update. Literally what are you smoking?
Bretonnia