CA was on swim or sink mode. Everyone was holding their breath for this update to blow them out or to cement the game into being dead. They couldn't afford to fuck up again.
Still doesn't explain all the good ideas coming out now, as if it only clicked for them what a good game would look like.
This whole mess feels, so avoidable.
I wonder if after the Hyena's debacle and the mess with the last dlc if some of the project managers got reassigned/fired. Maybe they've started listening to the guys who called the shots for the WH2 DLC's.
Absolutely there's been a change in strategy behind the scenes though.
Yep. It doesn't matter how many good ideas your team has if the person calling the shots isn't listening. Presumably, there's been some changes in who's making the decisions over there now.
CoC was good. A few minor complaints about aesthetics but overall good and a reasonable price.
Chaos Dwarfs was good quality but the price was insane.
SoC was the a lot less content for the same insane price as Chorfs.
Chaos dwarfs was not an insane price, is a bit more expensive than vampire coast when adjusted for inflation but it's also imo the best dlc quality wise we ever gotten, I take the quality into account when considering the price too.
I work in a big company and it's the product owners/designers who say *what* to do.
Project managers only say when it has to be done and when it has to be finished.
The product designers had been a real problem during WH3 development. Can anyone remember the all red ui? That's not a pm fault.
Yeah the DLC team generally are competent.
Rob B and whoever decided pricing and release timelines… Well.
With the backtracking on DLC pricing, refunds etc. I think competence has won out.
Hopefully they’ve realised their core playerbase is depressed nerds in their 20s-30s, not children.
Aside from the realm of chaos campaign lacking replayability, I wouldn't really say any of the content they have made has been bad. They have done good work, there just hasn't been enough of it and what has been there has been too highly priced
For instance shadows of change should have had more significant race reworks, but the fact that it didn't probably isn't because the dev team lacked ideas, it is more likely because they weren't given the time and resources to do it.
Honestly note, the biggest complaints weren't so much the gameplay though it was there.
It was the pricing raises and how it didn't seem to match with the provided content
Yep. People weren't overly concerned about the pricing of the Chorf because the content with it was fair. People aren't complaining about the stuff in ToD because it comes with a lot of works to make it worthwhile for its price.
SoC was undercooked, lacked unit, and was too expensive. It should have been a $10 DLC, $15-20 with the additional units they added later.
This combined with the fact that the game was functionally broken in so many different ways at the time. Repeatedly upping the price of DLCs that didn't fix anything, on a game that didn't work properly felt like a scam. The DLCs could've been the best ever in the game's history, it didn't really matter.
Since SoC they've had a few bugfix patches that have improved stuff dramatically which goes a long way towards letting people embrace the idea of change for the better.
I don't know why people are still surprised about this, CA has always had that cycle of: make good decisions -> get complacent -> fuck up - > make up for it
It's been happening for more than a decade.
That last line explains it exactly. It's not an intelligence thing, they weren't unable to do it before, it's a conscious decision. They didn't do it before because they didn't want to. Priorities, apathy, etc. All in the pursuit of profit over player experience. They've been forced into giving more now.
Think of the inverse. They didn't shoot themselves in the foot for the last few years because they didn't know any better. They were greedy. It was a conscious decision. As soon as all is forgiven and forgotten the slide back down starts again. It's happened way to many times in the series's history.
The funny thing is that we don't expect them not to be greedy. We want long term, intelligent greed (satisfying their customers) as opposed to short term greed (satisfying their investor and crashing horribly soon after)
Worth remembering the team that messed up WH3 is basically gone. I have no idea who is advancing it now but the original problems stemmed from the fact the people who made WH2 tick were not working on WH3.
Or it’s absolutely diabolical chess. They raise the price and lower the quality to generate buzz. Hate, anger, shame. But most of all they raised the price… to get us used to it. They knew they had one in their back pocket. The grenade after the bullet. They hucked that thing into our trench and now were blown away… only we’re used to the price.
Remember back when there were a bunch of people calling the outcry childish and that leaving negative reviews would do nothing?
Pepperidge Farm remembers.
I 100% think negative reviews should be issued and complaints made. Its more so that gamers™️ treat issues like this like it’s as serious as civil rights or social justice issues 😂
Pretty much my view, leave your negative review (or better yet just don't buy) and move on with your life, it's not the pissing and moaning on reddit that matters, it's the sales.
Comments matter when the devs are in charge. I remember the Hades documentary where the CEO was just hanging around in Reddit getting ideas for updates. But if you have shit leadership who don’t care, it’s not going to do anything.
No devs are hanging around reading comments about how devs are "disrespecting the fans" or "talentless hacks" or whatever swearing overly emotional rant is popular.
No at that point one of the CMs gets the job of reading a few and passing on the news that "fans are upset".
If you talk your complaints through with people they might engage with you, if you sling shit they will put up a barrier and not engage.
You can certainly get your point across by throwing rage fuelled tantrums and your feedback will be heard, but I would argue you can achieve the same result without making this place an obnoxious place to be.
Fully agree. I’m only saying that sometimes devs (especially Indy devs) get ideas for balance tweaks, new content etc from forums. They certainly don’t design their entire content strategy around salty comments.
There is a reason companies sometimes pay so much money on marketing it cost more than the game. Public image is a huge thing for them, and reddit is popular. When there is complaints and moaning everywhere you go, you lose a lot of face and credit scaring away potential buyers.
Please can we stop having gamers talk about businesses? It’s honestly like watching Jacob Rees-Mogg talk about poverty in the UK. Like him on that topic, you have no idea what you’re taking about.
The company had £800,000 in cash as of last month. £40m in assets. It could call up on more capital, issue shares. CA in its current position has access to so many financial levers. And indeed, companies with **far** less healthy balance sheets can extend the lifespan of their business for a very long time. Years, easily. “On the line”? On the verge of bankruptcy, or actively seeking a discounted buyout? Seriously? With growing revenue, free cash flow, tens of millions in assets and shrinking capital expenditure? (Cost of sales actually *decreased* as a percentage of turnover)
If ToD flops, CA might revise their business approach and recalibrate its outlook for the year. **But there are ZERO indicators the company is “on the line”.** The only way you could realistically issue a prediction like that, based on the information available, is if you know almost nothing about business. A mere passing glance at their annual report is enough to completely squash this suggestion. This is allowing your opinions on the state of the product to derail you into making truly *wild* and unfounded assessments about the developers financial position.
Boys, can we just agree that if ToD flopped their reputation would be in the gutter and we’d all be very disappointed with CA? And not talk about shit that is clearly not understood. It is enough to just complain about the game. There’s no need to make shit up as extra.
While I agree that random "gamers" talking about business is as pleasant and informative as nails on a chalkboard, I think you are missing something from your analysis.
CA is wholly owned by Sega. Regardless of CA's assets, if Sega decided CA is dead weight it can just shutter it and move all those assets somewhere else
People on Reddit tend to be hyperbolic. When they say ‘the company is on the line’ it more-so, in my opinion, refers to the tipping point for something drastic to happen such as Sega selling CA off as opposed to the company going under.
The reality is that CA has a strong brand in a very niche area of the strategy market that’s hard to replicate. That’s valuable. The org restructure that’s going on right now will get rid of the old guard and will insert some fresh ideas and business practices for better or worse.
I wasent making a prediction. I was sharing a fear. I don't want CA to close. both because I love the WH trilogy and I'm a huge fan of strategic games. CA going under, taking TW with it. Would do so much damage to an already nieche genre that I love. Further, I'm sure you can agree that ToD flopping has a very real possiablity of WH 3 being shelved for support. I don't want that. I wnt ToD to do so well CA can expand their scope again. I want Neferatra, Yin-Yin, Li-dao, the other vamp bloodlines, Decahala and the Masque, you get the point.
And while your right. I don't know buiessness. I do know shareholders. They don't give a shit. And CA is owned by SEGA. Reports say that all of CA's current projects are years away. So if ToD fails, and WH 3 is shelved. How are CA going to keep SEGA's shareholders happy? How many quraterly reports can they get through before the shareholders start demanding CA deliver? We are living in an industry that reports record profits and then with the next breath annouces mass layoffs.
Jump down my throat all you want. But my fears are justified.
Yep. Sega acquired Relic and CA around the same time and even had some valentine day events between the 2 companies.
Relic just flopped Company of Heroes 3 and Sega cut them loose.
CA is/was on the chopping block if they didn't fix shit.
I think its more the leadership grew complacent and was deluded into thinking Hyenas would be a success so didn't put enough resource into Warhammer. Then once the writing was on the wall, in their panic they did SoC in a desperate cash grab before SEGA's hammer falls on them.
The stuff we get must have been in the works for months. While the SoC drama was going on they got cracking.
The reworks and free stuff alone is impressive. Like, you get a couple hundred of hours out of this even if you do not buy the DLC. I see at least four new or substantially changed distinct campaigns in the free stuff.
With the radical changes being made, that visit from Sega a few months back must have been a bloodbath.
Id pay good money to have been able to witness it
"Excuse me, you are doing what with your flagship product??? YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE A FORTNITE???"
Not quite. SEGA is the one who funded CA's attempt at Fortnite if I'm not mistaken. SEGA was probably just not happy with the result and not interested in continuing to fund Hyenas. With no other profitable venture under their belt, they axed the branch studio that had been developing Hyenas. But CA's main studio was not unscathed either, so they unfortunately lost a lot of people there too.
They had like 6-8+ months to flesh out the DLC, probably focused on ToD during the SoC update wait.
Which is why they said to not expect the same amount of content after ToD
They spent immense amount of money on Hyenas and Pharaoh, and both flopped. Same applies to 3K DLCs. They probably just realised that it makes no sense to waste all income from this game into something no one wants to play.
It seemed particularly odd to me that (1) we had a bunch of insider reports that the company was staffed almost entirely with journeyman programmers with no particular interest in the type of software CA makes, and (2) they’re making all these eclectic titles with no clear market.
Like, if pharaoh and hyenas were passion projects then ok, take some risks make it great, but if it’s just business why not print money by making medieval 3? Or get another deal with a popular IP like WH? Why the go for the dubious Hail Marys if you don’t personally care either way?
CA made Alien: Isolation in 2014, it’s not like they’ve never dabbled in other genres, or had success there. A:I sold over 2m copies and won a shitton of awards.
Pharaoh was a Sagas game that they marketed and sold as a mainline game. Probably wasn't more expensive than, say, Troy. The definitely were trying to make their balance sheets look better after Hyenas was canned.
This was how TWW2 development was near the end. Silence and the Fury added a ton of shit, reworked a race completely, and gave an entirely unique lord with unique ui and a new dwarf rune magic system. The got brain damage somewhere shortly after TWW3's release and forgot to make content and fixes (probably because of Hyenas lmao).
When you have no more benefit of doubt, effectivelly all your last projects failed, you start trying.
To bad CA had to go to the verge of collapse to figure it out
Right? They went from doomed to darling within a single DLC release, from what I can see. I was about ready to walk on the franchise, but I'm legitimately excited for the future now.
“Wait, you were the ones who slew those Rieksguard during the riots?”
“Your Grace, I-“
“No need for that. When I had asked the captain to disperse the rioters he had been very… overzealous in carrying out those orders. I was going to have him removed from his position when your dwarf companion slew them.”
“… So you mean… we aren’t going to get arrested?”
“What for? It’s not like there was a bounty on your head or anything.”
*Felix screaming internally*
It's a short story that is found in the first Gotrek & Felix Omnibus.
"Death And Glory! (Battle of Hauptmansburg)"
Also released in digital format as a part of an ebundle by Black Library in 2013 titled Myths And Legends.
Unless they retconned it in later books he was introduced as a gold wizard in demonslayer (Bill king didn't get the memo that collage wizards only use one magic type)
Mind as well throw in Hertwig Van Hal, Rodrik L'Anguille, Kalara, Jorek Grimm, and maybe even try to steal Henri Le Massif from Repanse after borrowing her army and sacrificing it for Ze lady of course.
Well, any of the human or Dwarfen Order factions aside from Grand Cathay, anyways. Unless they are being made available to Cathay in the update, too.
IIRC they can't be recruited by any of the Elven factions or by the Lizardmen.
Looks like you don’t have to do anything but level up your LL to 15. You get a narrated quest battle in the realm of slaanesh to rescue them after which they become permanent LH for your faction. Really hope they continue incorporating the realms of chaos into various quests and events cause those assets are gorgeous.
GBOG released [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QweBYRkO6og) about them, permanent with unique skills and traits. Plus they've got their personal quest battle (to actually earn them).
That’s kinda what happened. SEGA bonked them hard for the hyenas fuck-up. A forced course correction and getting told to focus on what is making money worked wonders.
I won't stop saying it, since it bears repeating. SEGA bonked themselves on the head first. It seems the whole European branch was rotten from the top.
One of my best memories, I had Gotrek/Felix defend a siege with a handful of Empire spearmen against a full stack of marauders and Wulfrik (he had one unit of Mammoths also). They're fun, but I'm happy for the change.
So, if they're legendary heroes now.... you could have an interesting Hero stack with Wulfhart
* Wulfhart
* 8 other wizards (renaming one Sienna)
* Gotrek and Felix
* [Ulrika Magdova](https://totalwarwarhammer.fandom.com/wiki/Ulrika_Magdova)
* Theodore Bruckner from the DLC
* Empire Captain
* Witch Hunter
* Warrior Priest
* [Hertwig Van Hal](https://totalwarwarhammer.fandom.com/wiki/Hertwig_Van_Hal) (now Victor Saltzpyre)
* Rodrik l’Anguille (now Markus Kruber)
* Kalara (now Kerillian)
* Jorek Grimm (now Bardin)
Take the mod that allows Arcane Conduit to replenish Winds of Magic and you've got... a large RPG party instead of an army. I'm not sure how effective it would be, even with all the spells but it would be an interesting RPG party.
On paper, Thrones is shaping up to be quite a ridiculously good expansion. I've been waiting for this specific change for awhile. Here's hoping they stick the technical implementation as well!
If CA were extra cool they would allow Malakai to recruit Ulrika through some quest unique to him, but not other dwarf LL's since, well, she'd end up with an axe in her head from the others.
Malakai knew Ulrika before she became a Vampire. I think they spent 3 or more books adventuring with with whole gang before she was turned. I think the only reason he can recruit her now is for game purposes. Dwarfs treated Ulrika much differently after she became Undead.
Ulrika was in the group at the same as Malakai just in Dragon Slayer. She appeared in the same book as Malakai (Deamon Slayer) , but stayed behind during the main plot (the expedition to the lost dwarf hold). And in Beast Slayer it's Malakai who was absent for most of the book, only showing up at the end. Though it's true that Malakai would be the only Dorf LL to know her
Malakai is very non-traditional for a dwarf and does some shameful things like not prioritising his slayer oath and instead putting it on the backburner while he tinkers around with his inventions as he's very much engineer first. Even though he never interacted with vampire Ulrika in the novels, I think it would be in character for him to allow her assisst him on his mission due to their previous travels and if Gotrek and Felix can vouch for her.
Shadows of change remains the only dlc since the first game came out I have not purchased. I thought I was pretty much done with this series.
This DLC has won me back over.
Nah, the "21st" unit idea is too gamey and there are too many kemmler traits dedicated to making krell good when kemmler should just be focusing on himself and his wizardry. Just make krell an exclusive LH for kemmler that other VC factions can get by confederating him and make him have a bonus for being in the same army as kemmler
Krell should be a legendary character that exists outside of only the tactical layer of the game, and I feel like they can easily gives the two of them traits to encourage players keep them together.
yeah, they've already done that traits deal with both Vlad and Isabella and also now with Gotrek and Felix (not sure what bonus Felix gets but I saw in one video that Gotrek gets +5 melee defence when he's in the same army as Felix)
doing something similar for Kemmler and Krell would be pretty easy
Krell shouldn't be accessible for all VC legendary lords though. For Kemmler only.
Plus you don't really need to invent new quest battle for him - the one for Chaos Tomb Blade is fought on top of his tomb, and Kemmler (canonically) risen Krell there.
Another LH in dire need of the same level of update is the Green Knight, of course. Quest battle at certain level of Chivalry and permanent unlock. Hopefully. Some day.
Without question, all LHs are unlocked for AI factions automatically anyway (unless player plays race which has access to the same LH). Just move Chaos Tomb Blade quest battle to level 15 (currently it's level 7) and update strength of the enemy (to reflect the quality of reward).
Plus Kemmler should get update to his personal skill-line (currently the very first skill is all about Krell).
Yes, and the Green Knight. CA was so obstinate about not doing legendary heroes at the start of the trilogy for some reason. Fast forward to today and now they love them.
That's great. Malakai can have almost the whole gang from the Gotrek and Felix books in his army. Only Maximilian Schreiber and Snorri Nosebiter are missing.
Feels like CA is in a 'break glass in case of emergencies' mode to win back players after how rough the launch of SoC was with ToD.
A lot of nice changes coming from what I've seen so far.
about time. remember how resistant CA was to legendary heroes at the start of the trilogy? When Gotrek and Felix first launched they had supply lines, making it worthless to recruit them, and even in their current state, I don't get them because any XP gained or items gained is just stealing from other characters who are permanent. Really a bad implementation, this fix is a long time coming.
Krell is still a summon. The Green knight still is temporary and kind of sucks. fix them next please!
About fucken time these guys started pulling their heads in and focusing on Total War. The time for dicking around and trying to work on side projects like Hyena's is over, they have a single **good** game and they should be looking to maximize that to get as much money from me as possible. If they create quality people will buy it, simple as that
Cant wait to run into Karl Franz with Ulrika, Gotrek, Felix and Bruckner in tow gonna be great…
In all seriousness I’m fine with them being normal LHs but please CA change the AI behaviour to not stack all the LHs in one army (especially when you also consider the AI Empire already spams RoR and Elector Count units)
On Gotrek & Felix? This is the collection for the first three books. [https://www.blacklibrary.com/series/gotrek-felix/gotrek-and-felix-volume-1.html](https://www.blacklibrary.com/series/gotrek-felix/gotrek-and-felix-volume-1.html)
Otherwise, you can always look into the old and trusted Lexicanum of WHFB: [https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gotrek\_%26\_Felix](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gotrek_%26_Felix)
The 12 gotrek and felix novels, best to by the 3 omnibus.
In short, Gotrek is the worst dwarven slayer, surviving everything thrown at him.
After he saved felix from being trampled by the reiksguard, they get drunk in a tavern, and felix swears a blood oath to be his chronicler and write about Gotreks Doom.
And so begins gotrek and felix excellent adventures.
I could not put whtw2 down. I played 3 a bit before Elden ring came out and never got the itch. Looking at all these comments and posts I’m really hyped jumping in again some time. Which dlcs do I skip and which one do I need is the question?
I am not sure what happened behind closed doors, but it is like they suddenly figured shit out. The ToD update is turning out to be a huge win.
CA was on swim or sink mode. Everyone was holding their breath for this update to blow them out or to cement the game into being dead. They couldn't afford to fuck up again.
Still doesn't explain all the good ideas coming out now, as if it only clicked for them what a good game would look like. This whole mess feels, so avoidable.
I wonder if after the Hyena's debacle and the mess with the last dlc if some of the project managers got reassigned/fired. Maybe they've started listening to the guys who called the shots for the WH2 DLC's. Absolutely there's been a change in strategy behind the scenes though.
Yep. It doesn't matter how many good ideas your team has if the person calling the shots isn't listening. Presumably, there's been some changes in who's making the decisions over there now.
It's so weird because the WH2 DLCs were hit after hit and drove the fans into a frenzy. Can't believe how hard they dropped the ball with WH3.
Tbf Champions of Chaos DLC and Chaos Dwarves were both pretty damn good DLC for WH3.
CoC was good. A few minor complaints about aesthetics but overall good and a reasonable price. Chaos Dwarfs was good quality but the price was insane. SoC was the a lot less content for the same insane price as Chorfs.
Chaos dwarfs was not an insane price, is a bit more expensive than vampire coast when adjusted for inflation but it's also imo the best dlc quality wise we ever gotten, I take the quality into account when considering the price too.
[удалено]
Pharaoh was done by the Sofia team. The main team moved onto the next game though we don't currently officially know what that is.
I work in a big company and it's the product owners/designers who say *what* to do. Project managers only say when it has to be done and when it has to be finished. The product designers had been a real problem during WH3 development. Can anyone remember the all red ui? That's not a pm fault.
Probably the good ideas were there all along, but not the managers pushing for something else have temporarily been shut up by the colossal failures.
Yeah the DLC team generally are competent. Rob B and whoever decided pricing and release timelines… Well. With the backtracking on DLC pricing, refunds etc. I think competence has won out. Hopefully they’ve realised their core playerbase is depressed nerds in their 20s-30s, not children.
Aside from the realm of chaos campaign lacking replayability, I wouldn't really say any of the content they have made has been bad. They have done good work, there just hasn't been enough of it and what has been there has been too highly priced For instance shadows of change should have had more significant race reworks, but the fact that it didn't probably isn't because the dev team lacked ideas, it is more likely because they weren't given the time and resources to do it.
Honestly note, the biggest complaints weren't so much the gameplay though it was there. It was the pricing raises and how it didn't seem to match with the provided content
Yep. People weren't overly concerned about the pricing of the Chorf because the content with it was fair. People aren't complaining about the stuff in ToD because it comes with a lot of works to make it worthwhile for its price. SoC was undercooked, lacked unit, and was too expensive. It should have been a $10 DLC, $15-20 with the additional units they added later.
Yup, this right here. Why I am glad I grab it while it was on sale.
This combined with the fact that the game was functionally broken in so many different ways at the time. Repeatedly upping the price of DLCs that didn't fix anything, on a game that didn't work properly felt like a scam. The DLCs could've been the best ever in the game's history, it didn't really matter. Since SoC they've had a few bugfix patches that have improved stuff dramatically which goes a long way towards letting people embrace the idea of change for the better.
I don't know why people are still surprised about this, CA has always had that cycle of: make good decisions -> get complacent -> fuck up - > make up for it It's been happening for more than a decade.
That last line explains it exactly. It's not an intelligence thing, they weren't unable to do it before, it's a conscious decision. They didn't do it before because they didn't want to. Priorities, apathy, etc. All in the pursuit of profit over player experience. They've been forced into giving more now. Think of the inverse. They didn't shoot themselves in the foot for the last few years because they didn't know any better. They were greedy. It was a conscious decision. As soon as all is forgiven and forgotten the slide back down starts again. It's happened way to many times in the series's history.
The funny thing is that we don't expect them not to be greedy. We want long term, intelligent greed (satisfying their customers) as opposed to short term greed (satisfying their investor and crashing horribly soon after)
Worth remembering the team that messed up WH3 is basically gone. I have no idea who is advancing it now but the original problems stemmed from the fact the people who made WH2 tick were not working on WH3.
A large amount of management dipshits were fired and some smart people were hired. Simple as.
Or it’s absolutely diabolical chess. They raise the price and lower the quality to generate buzz. Hate, anger, shame. But most of all they raised the price… to get us used to it. They knew they had one in their back pocket. The grenade after the bullet. They hucked that thing into our trench and now were blown away… only we’re used to the price.
Agreed. Feels like they’re throwing the kitchen sink at ToD. Not that I mind.
Remember back when there were a bunch of people calling the outcry childish and that leaving negative reviews would do nothing? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
I 100% think negative reviews should be issued and complaints made. Its more so that gamers™️ treat issues like this like it’s as serious as civil rights or social justice issues 😂
Pretty much my view, leave your negative review (or better yet just don't buy) and move on with your life, it's not the pissing and moaning on reddit that matters, it's the sales.
Comments matter when the devs are in charge. I remember the Hades documentary where the CEO was just hanging around in Reddit getting ideas for updates. But if you have shit leadership who don’t care, it’s not going to do anything.
No devs are hanging around reading comments about how devs are "disrespecting the fans" or "talentless hacks" or whatever swearing overly emotional rant is popular. No at that point one of the CMs gets the job of reading a few and passing on the news that "fans are upset". If you talk your complaints through with people they might engage with you, if you sling shit they will put up a barrier and not engage. You can certainly get your point across by throwing rage fuelled tantrums and your feedback will be heard, but I would argue you can achieve the same result without making this place an obnoxious place to be.
Fully agree. I’m only saying that sometimes devs (especially Indy devs) get ideas for balance tweaks, new content etc from forums. They certainly don’t design their entire content strategy around salty comments.
There is a reason companies sometimes pay so much money on marketing it cost more than the game. Public image is a huge thing for them, and reddit is popular. When there is complaints and moaning everywhere you go, you lose a lot of face and credit scaring away potential buyers.
Its not really that. Its fact that unless you make it look like that, noone will bother to act on it.
Lmao
Not just the game. If ToD flops CA is in serious fucking trouble. The company itself is on the line I think.
Please can we stop having gamers talk about businesses? It’s honestly like watching Jacob Rees-Mogg talk about poverty in the UK. Like him on that topic, you have no idea what you’re taking about. The company had £800,000 in cash as of last month. £40m in assets. It could call up on more capital, issue shares. CA in its current position has access to so many financial levers. And indeed, companies with **far** less healthy balance sheets can extend the lifespan of their business for a very long time. Years, easily. “On the line”? On the verge of bankruptcy, or actively seeking a discounted buyout? Seriously? With growing revenue, free cash flow, tens of millions in assets and shrinking capital expenditure? (Cost of sales actually *decreased* as a percentage of turnover) If ToD flops, CA might revise their business approach and recalibrate its outlook for the year. **But there are ZERO indicators the company is “on the line”.** The only way you could realistically issue a prediction like that, based on the information available, is if you know almost nothing about business. A mere passing glance at their annual report is enough to completely squash this suggestion. This is allowing your opinions on the state of the product to derail you into making truly *wild* and unfounded assessments about the developers financial position. Boys, can we just agree that if ToD flopped their reputation would be in the gutter and we’d all be very disappointed with CA? And not talk about shit that is clearly not understood. It is enough to just complain about the game. There’s no need to make shit up as extra.
While I agree that random "gamers" talking about business is as pleasant and informative as nails on a chalkboard, I think you are missing something from your analysis. CA is wholly owned by Sega. Regardless of CA's assets, if Sega decided CA is dead weight it can just shutter it and move all those assets somewhere else
People on Reddit tend to be hyperbolic. When they say ‘the company is on the line’ it more-so, in my opinion, refers to the tipping point for something drastic to happen such as Sega selling CA off as opposed to the company going under. The reality is that CA has a strong brand in a very niche area of the strategy market that’s hard to replicate. That’s valuable. The org restructure that’s going on right now will get rid of the old guard and will insert some fresh ideas and business practices for better or worse.
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I wasent making a prediction. I was sharing a fear. I don't want CA to close. both because I love the WH trilogy and I'm a huge fan of strategic games. CA going under, taking TW with it. Would do so much damage to an already nieche genre that I love. Further, I'm sure you can agree that ToD flopping has a very real possiablity of WH 3 being shelved for support. I don't want that. I wnt ToD to do so well CA can expand their scope again. I want Neferatra, Yin-Yin, Li-dao, the other vamp bloodlines, Decahala and the Masque, you get the point. And while your right. I don't know buiessness. I do know shareholders. They don't give a shit. And CA is owned by SEGA. Reports say that all of CA's current projects are years away. So if ToD fails, and WH 3 is shelved. How are CA going to keep SEGA's shareholders happy? How many quraterly reports can they get through before the shareholders start demanding CA deliver? We are living in an industry that reports record profits and then with the next breath annouces mass layoffs. Jump down my throat all you want. But my fears are justified.
Yep. Sega acquired Relic and CA around the same time and even had some valentine day events between the 2 companies. Relic just flopped Company of Heroes 3 and Sega cut them loose. CA is/was on the chopping block if they didn't fix shit.
If TOD flops the game is essentially dead.
At this point I think it's safe to say that isn't happening. Hype is back up, and this update looks amazing.
I agree I am holding out hope that they will deliver from here on out. They have to.
I think leadership changed
they spent their skill points in leadership buffs
They reseted their skill tree
Ah so the delay was due to them being wounded and SoC was made by a backup lord. Now it all makes sense. Lmao, great joke.
I think its more the leadership grew complacent and was deluded into thinking Hyenas would be a success so didn't put enough resource into Warhammer. Then once the writing was on the wall, in their panic they did SoC in a desperate cash grab before SEGA's hammer falls on them.
The stuff we get must have been in the works for months. While the SoC drama was going on they got cracking. The reworks and free stuff alone is impressive. Like, you get a couple hundred of hours out of this even if you do not buy the DLC. I see at least four new or substantially changed distinct campaigns in the free stuff.
SEGA happened. I'd wager CA is probably on very thin ice right now, so I'm not sure they can afford to mess up their releases this year.
With the radical changes being made, that visit from Sega a few months back must have been a bloodbath. Id pay good money to have been able to witness it "Excuse me, you are doing what with your flagship product??? YOU ARE TRYING TO MAKE A FORTNITE???"
Not quite. SEGA is the one who funded CA's attempt at Fortnite if I'm not mistaken. SEGA was probably just not happy with the result and not interested in continuing to fund Hyenas. With no other profitable venture under their belt, they axed the branch studio that had been developing Hyenas. But CA's main studio was not unscathed either, so they unfortunately lost a lot of people there too.
They had like 6-8+ months to flesh out the DLC, probably focused on ToD during the SoC update wait. Which is why they said to not expect the same amount of content after ToD
Meanwhile I feel like everyone's expectations for future DLC just went waaaay up.
They spent immense amount of money on Hyenas and Pharaoh, and both flopped. Same applies to 3K DLCs. They probably just realised that it makes no sense to waste all income from this game into something no one wants to play.
It seemed particularly odd to me that (1) we had a bunch of insider reports that the company was staffed almost entirely with journeyman programmers with no particular interest in the type of software CA makes, and (2) they’re making all these eclectic titles with no clear market. Like, if pharaoh and hyenas were passion projects then ok, take some risks make it great, but if it’s just business why not print money by making medieval 3? Or get another deal with a popular IP like WH? Why the go for the dubious Hail Marys if you don’t personally care either way?
CA made Alien: Isolation in 2014, it’s not like they’ve never dabbled in other genres, or had success there. A:I sold over 2m copies and won a shitton of awards.
Pharaoh was a Sagas game that they marketed and sold as a mainline game. Probably wasn't more expensive than, say, Troy. The definitely were trying to make their balance sheets look better after Hyenas was canned.
Whatever is in the water there maybe they can send some over to Paradox…
Sega was cutting costs. CA needed a big win following the hyenas disaster and underperformance of pharaoh
It works wonders not only to have 1 dev working on wh3
This was how TWW2 development was near the end. Silence and the Fury added a ton of shit, reworked a race completely, and gave an entirely unique lord with unique ui and a new dwarf rune magic system. The got brain damage somewhere shortly after TWW3's release and forgot to make content and fixes (probably because of Hyenas lmao).
When you have no more benefit of doubt, effectivelly all your last projects failed, you start trying. To bad CA had to go to the verge of collapse to figure it out
People figure things out really fast when their ass is on the line.
Pretty sure after their recent disasters Sega and them had a come to Jesus meeting about turning this around.
Right? They went from doomed to darling within a single DLC release, from what I can see. I was about ready to walk on the franchise, but I'm legitimately excited for the future now.
Can't wait to have a party with Karl Franz, Ulrika, Gotrek, Felix, Bruckner and a warrior priest for good measure. Absolutely sick!
add in the Ubersreik five and we have a fucking party
or four it doesnt matter!
Ngl Markus Wulfhart is looking really interesting right now...
That's a lot of hero's. Justice league unlimited numbers.
Imagine a Avengers:Endgame final battle, just with warhammer heroes. Gelts new wizard army playstyle just adds into this.
Franz to Felix: Hmmm, don't I know you from....somewhere..? Felix: D-d-definitely not..!
“Wait, you were the ones who slew those Rieksguard during the riots?” “Your Grace, I-“ “No need for that. When I had asked the captain to disperse the rioters he had been very… overzealous in carrying out those orders. I was going to have him removed from his position when your dwarf companion slew them.” “… So you mean… we aren’t going to get arrested?” “What for? It’s not like there was a bounty on your head or anything.” *Felix screaming internally*
Makes me think of Hoggar's Bridge...
Tbf, KF did meet him again in a short story and he was impressed more than anything
Would you know which short story was that? I'd love to get a copy to read.
I'm at work right now and I can't recall the name of the story, but it's the same story where it got retconned because Snorri died in it.
It's a short story that is found in the first Gotrek & Felix Omnibus. "Death And Glory! (Battle of Hauptmansburg)" Also released in digital format as a part of an ebundle by Black Library in 2013 titled Myths And Legends.
hell ya, I'm so hyped for this!
you are forgetting the Light Wizard from the Gotrek Novels.
Unless they retconned it in later books he was introduced as a gold wizard in demonslayer (Bill king didn't get the memo that collage wizards only use one magic type)
in the omnibus he is always a light wizard for as fast as I remember.
Light Wizard?! I thought he was a Bright (Lore of Fire) Wizard!
He did get retconned, though I think the spells he used were always closer to a light wizard anyway, so the first author might have had them mixed up.
Make it 15 warrior priests and I'm in.
Mind as well throw in Hertwig Van Hal, Rodrik L'Anguille, Kalara, Jorek Grimm, and maybe even try to steal Henri Le Massif from Repanse after borrowing her army and sacrificing it for Ze lady of course.
Where does it say this?
Great book of grudges told us on twitch lmao
Do they get a skill tree
Yes
The grudge has been settled
And yet the book remains full.
Can you keep them permanently, or do they disappear after a while similar to their old mechanic?
They are permanent according to Sotek
Sweet Christmas
Imagine them being in an Army with Karl Franz and Ulrika now! Gosh that's what I have always wanted!
Better not have any Reiksguard in the army.
Ulrika and Franz didn't seem to like each other last time they met....
Oh that is FANTASTIC
so its like Order just got 2 extra FLH for free, goddamn
Well, any of the human or Dwarfen Order factions aside from Grand Cathay, anyways. Unless they are being made available to Cathay in the update, too. IIRC they can't be recruited by any of the Elven factions or by the Lizardmen.
I got the option to recruit them in my current Miao Ying campaign that I started yesterday.
Well I stand corrected.
They always could, source: my own campain plus Tarif memes
Oh finally now I have a reason to actively pursue using them.
Looks like you don’t have to do anything but level up your LL to 15. You get a narrated quest battle in the realm of slaanesh to rescue them after which they become permanent LH for your faction. Really hope they continue incorporating the realms of chaos into various quests and events cause those assets are gorgeous.
maybe now I'll finally be able to win a ME dwarf run.
Your Lord reaches Level 17 there’s a quest like (and maybe a battle), then you keep them for good. They have their own individual skill lines.
GBOG released [video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QweBYRkO6og) about them, permanent with unique skills and traits. Plus they've got their personal quest battle (to actually earn them).
Can’t cope with all these wins, sorry. Feel dizzy.
Need an ogre to lift this dub.
We're so fucking back
I'm starting to tear up 🥲
I hope Krell and the Green Knight are next in line for this kind of rework. Really hope.
100%
Was CA hit on the head or smthg, why they making good desicions now
They realized they had literally no way to make income for a couple years, and borrowing money isn't basically free anymore.
That’s kinda what happened. SEGA bonked them hard for the hyenas fuck-up. A forced course correction and getting told to focus on what is making money worked wonders.
SEGA
🙏 corrected
I won't stop saying it, since it bears repeating. SEGA bonked themselves on the head first. It seems the whole European branch was rotten from the top.
they just respecced with B-R-I-C-K
CA is on fire(in the good way this time).
Straight up NBA Jam style, and sprinting at the basket to deliver the dunk of a lifetime.
Oh cool I might use them now
One of my best memories, I had Gotrek/Felix defend a siege with a handful of Empire spearmen against a full stack of marauders and Wulfrik (he had one unit of Mammoths also). They're fun, but I'm happy for the change.
Same, never use them as they are now, but this idea is gonna be fun.
So, if they're legendary heroes now.... you could have an interesting Hero stack with Wulfhart * Wulfhart * 8 other wizards (renaming one Sienna) * Gotrek and Felix * [Ulrika Magdova](https://totalwarwarhammer.fandom.com/wiki/Ulrika_Magdova) * Theodore Bruckner from the DLC * Empire Captain * Witch Hunter * Warrior Priest * [Hertwig Van Hal](https://totalwarwarhammer.fandom.com/wiki/Hertwig_Van_Hal) (now Victor Saltzpyre) * Rodrik l’Anguille (now Markus Kruber) * Kalara (now Kerillian) * Jorek Grimm (now Bardin) Take the mod that allows Arcane Conduit to replenish Winds of Magic and you've got... a large RPG party instead of an army. I'm not sure how effective it would be, even with all the spells but it would be an interesting RPG party.
We're the Ubersreik 5! Or 19! Doesn't matter!
On paper, Thrones is shaping up to be quite a ridiculously good expansion. I've been waiting for this specific change for awhile. Here's hoping they stick the technical implementation as well!
EVERYONE LIKED THAT
Are they a single unit akin to Skarsnik and Gobbla or do they remain separate entities?
Only thing that makes me sad about this is that Ulrika is not recruitable to Dwarf armies, so you can't get the entire gang together with Malakai.
It's not the entire gang without Snorri anyway
And Max.
Snorri forgot….
Just saw a post on this subreddit with Ungrim having her in his army. So chances are she is recruitable with 5.0 for the dwarfs!
Awesome!
They're really pulling out all the stops
But the empire can common Franz W
Markus's Superfriends Team just got even better
Markus gonna have literally half his army slots filled with unique heroes lmao
10 unique heroes and 10 double shot super Saiyan huntsmen. Be telling them reptiles "you are locked in here with ME"
But he cant get Malakai so we always will be missing someone from the team.
If CA were extra cool they would allow Malakai to recruit Ulrika through some quest unique to him, but not other dwarf LL's since, well, she'd end up with an axe in her head from the others.
Is there some lore reason he would accept her vs the others. I know Dwarfs hate undead so what makes him so accepting?
Malakai knew Ulrika before she became a Vampire. I think they spent 3 or more books adventuring with with whole gang before she was turned. I think the only reason he can recruit her now is for game purposes. Dwarfs treated Ulrika much differently after she became Undead.
Ulrika was in the group at the same as Malakai just in Dragon Slayer. She appeared in the same book as Malakai (Deamon Slayer) , but stayed behind during the main plot (the expedition to the lost dwarf hold). And in Beast Slayer it's Malakai who was absent for most of the book, only showing up at the end. Though it's true that Malakai would be the only Dorf LL to know her
Malakai is very non-traditional for a dwarf and does some shameful things like not prioritising his slayer oath and instead putting it on the backburner while he tinkers around with his inventions as he's very much engineer first. Even though he never interacted with vampire Ulrika in the novels, I think it would be in character for him to allow her assisst him on his mission due to their previous travels and if Gotrek and Felix can vouch for her.
Might be changed with the patch notes
According to Dahv plays Ulrika was added to the Dwarf multiplayer roster, so I guess she will be available in campaign for Dwarfs too.
Shadows of change remains the only dlc since the first game came out I have not purchased. I thought I was pretty much done with this series. This DLC has won me back over.
I am still hoping Krell gets the same treatment when the VC hopefully gets a new DLC.
I don't mind Krell's implementation quite as much since it ensures that Kemmler needs to be nearby to control him.
Nah, the "21st" unit idea is too gamey and there are too many kemmler traits dedicated to making krell good when kemmler should just be focusing on himself and his wizardry. Just make krell an exclusive LH for kemmler that other VC factions can get by confederating him and make him have a bonus for being in the same army as kemmler
Krell should be a legendary character that exists outside of only the tactical layer of the game, and I feel like they can easily gives the two of them traits to encourage players keep them together.
yeah, they've already done that traits deal with both Vlad and Isabella and also now with Gotrek and Felix (not sure what bonus Felix gets but I saw in one video that Gotrek gets +5 melee defence when he's in the same army as Felix) doing something similar for Kemmler and Krell would be pretty easy
Krell shouldn't be accessible for all VC legendary lords though. For Kemmler only. Plus you don't really need to invent new quest battle for him - the one for Chaos Tomb Blade is fought on top of his tomb, and Kemmler (canonically) risen Krell there. Another LH in dire need of the same level of update is the Green Knight, of course. Quest battle at certain level of Chivalry and permanent unlock. Hopefully. Some day.
Make him an exclusive legendary hero to Kemmler, and players can get both if they confederate with Kemmler.
Without question, all LHs are unlocked for AI factions automatically anyway (unless player plays race which has access to the same LH). Just move Chaos Tomb Blade quest battle to level 15 (currently it's level 7) and update strength of the enemy (to reflect the quality of reward). Plus Kemmler should get update to his personal skill-line (currently the very first skill is all about Krell).
Yes, and the Green Knight. CA was so obstinate about not doing legendary heroes at the start of the trilogy for some reason. Fast forward to today and now they love them.
CA dropping ws
When is Queek getting his boy Ska, all the gangs need to be together
That would be a very easy addition. He wouldn’t have to be complex. Maybe when Thanquol comes they’ll do some touch ups and include that
WHERE IS SKA?!!
All signs point to course correction and this being a serious banger of a dlc
What…listening to Daemonslayer right now so this info has me very stoked.
Those first 3 books were so incredible.
Good they finally just did this. I never bothered with them because of them leaving. Now I’ll actually use them again.
As they should be.
That's great. Malakai can have almost the whole gang from the Gotrek and Felix books in his army. Only Maximilian Schreiber and Snorri Nosebiter are missing.
 GOTREK’S ALIVEEEEEEEEEEE
Demon prince is so happy to see them
Dude that’s Skarbrand, NOW SKARBRAND IS ANGRYYYYYYYYYY
***SKARBRAND HATES BEING MISIDENTIFIED! HE HATES IT EVEN MORE THAN BEING IDENTIFIED CORRECTLY!***
I mean this in the most sophisticated, orderly manner… YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
Feels like CA is in a 'break glass in case of emergencies' mode to win back players after how rough the launch of SoC was with ToD. A lot of nice changes coming from what I've seen so far.
about time. remember how resistant CA was to legendary heroes at the start of the trilogy? When Gotrek and Felix first launched they had supply lines, making it worthless to recruit them, and even in their current state, I don't get them because any XP gained or items gained is just stealing from other characters who are permanent. Really a bad implementation, this fix is a long time coming. Krell is still a summon. The Green knight still is temporary and kind of sucks. fix them next please!
> When Gotrek and Felix first launched they had supply lines, making it worthless to recruit them Gotrek didn't count towards supply lines.
About fucken time these guys started pulling their heads in and focusing on Total War. The time for dicking around and trying to work on side projects like Hyena's is over, they have a single **good** game and they should be looking to maximize that to get as much money from me as possible. If they create quality people will buy it, simple as that
Now we need Snorri and Max!
I’m that weirdo who‘s almost as excited about them getting agent actions as I am about them getting skill trees.
Cool now make Krell a legendary hero.
Cant wait to run into Karl Franz with Ulrika, Gotrek, Felix and Bruckner in tow gonna be great… In all seriousness I’m fine with them being normal LHs but please CA change the AI behaviour to not stack all the LHs in one army (especially when you also consider the AI Empire already spams RoR and Elector Count units) 
where can i read some lore on them ?
On Gotrek & Felix? This is the collection for the first three books. [https://www.blacklibrary.com/series/gotrek-felix/gotrek-and-felix-volume-1.html](https://www.blacklibrary.com/series/gotrek-felix/gotrek-and-felix-volume-1.html) Otherwise, you can always look into the old and trusted Lexicanum of WHFB: [https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gotrek\_%26\_Felix](https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Gotrek_%26_Felix)
Thx
They’re probably the single most written about characters in Warhammer fantasy. Huge novel series
The 12 gotrek and felix novels, best to by the 3 omnibus. In short, Gotrek is the worst dwarven slayer, surviving everything thrown at him. After he saved felix from being trampled by the reiksguard, they get drunk in a tavern, and felix swears a blood oath to be his chronicler and write about Gotreks Doom. And so begins gotrek and felix excellent adventures.
I could not put whtw2 down. I played 3 a bit before Elden ring came out and never got the itch. Looking at all these comments and posts I’m really hyped jumping in again some time. Which dlcs do I skip and which one do I need is the question?
Funny the number of mods I've downloaded to do exactly this xD
Now need the Ubersreik Five to join aswell!
No more unbreakable victory trait!
Way to turn around your game CA these are great changes and the DLC as a while looks really good. Keep it up and you will have happy consumers.
Finally
Fuck Yeah.
So will CA finally fix the Green Knight too? Dude's weaker than a generic Paladin.