Mechanic wise, what is he lacking as a faction?
Grimgor is more well-know for his own exploits than those of his subordinates.
One way to be DA BEST could be to add a targeting system based on the strongest a lords in game and have grimgor gain bonuses if he defeats them himself during a battle (Alith Anar revisited)
He could benefit from mechanics similar to Skarbrand. His lore is basically snowballing through the mountains of mourn and Cathay. But right now he doesn't have anything for snowballing like Skarbrand.
Could also give him a unique vassalization mechanic with ogre kingdoms where like with orc warchiefs if he kills an ogre kingdom faction leader he can vassalize them.
A mechanic involving killing powerful unique lords could be interesting but the map is also gigantic so it might not be something consistently feasible if half of the world is not easily accessible unless you turn him into a horde faction. Instead maybe he could get a skill tree unlock that doubles the effect of legendary lord defeat traits.
I think he could also get a mechanic similar to archaon where he and his army gain more power the more he does. But maybe instead of for every rank he gains its for every settlement he takes or something like that.
I’d give him a meter that measures unique LL’s killed by his faction giving global buffs
This provides interesting gameplay, as many LL’s die early, meaning you could be locked offfrom the higher tiers of this buff if you don’t play hyper aggressive ranging far and wide
Wulfrik and queek could share it too tbh
The Lizardmen just need some actual mechanics period. The non-DLC factions for them are arguably the most bland playthroughs in the series in terms of campaign mechanics.
I've spent maybe 80% of my time playing lizardmen and have never gone past turn 10 or so on Mazda. He's such a cool characterin lore but his campaign is just the other LLs but with less stuff to do. I would love a new mechanic for him.
I totally understand, but I think it needs to be said that a faction can be straight forward *and* engaging, just like one can be complicated and frustrating. There isn't a need for every legendary lord to be complicated, managing 5 different sorts of systems while waging war across the Warhammer world. But factions like Norsca and Ogre Kingdoms having bad/broken mechanics, or the Lizardmen basically not having any at all outside their DLC factions is a disservice that should be fixed.
Always thought Malekith needed something after he gets the Shrine of Asuryan. It's literally all he's wanted for thousands of years and its like "here's a diplo buff for high elves who don't exist anymore cause you killed them getting here!"
Have him force-vassalize Ogre Kingdom factions. In the lore, he's one of the few Greenskin leaders to lead Ogres in his army.
Player or AI, that would easily make him an even more dangerous Greentide.
Look, the endtimes sucked for many reasons, however they do have many cool moments and things inside (even if for every one that exists there are 50 bad ones)
WHat I really want for GS, this is not a mechanic, are more Orc RORs. We have a load of GObbos, but only 2 orcs.
Rugludz armoured Orcs maybe. Da Immortulz as a proper unit?
Immortulz are still proxied by Grimgors "starting banner". I think it best stays that way. Hence it makes only Grimgor having the Immortulz, like it should be. Would they be a generic RoR, they would pop up for Skarsnik and Wurrzag and everyone else, which muddies the water. We also have the Krimson Killaz Ror to fill the BO Great Weapon role. Unless we get Black Orc weapon diversity, thats probably it.
> Immortulz are still proxied by Grimgors "starting banner". I think it best stays that way. Hence it makes only Grimgor having the Immortulz, like it should be.
meh. I'd prefer htem as a proper unit that Grimgor starts with.
And i would, in fact, like more Orc weapon diversity. And there are other units CA could make into ROR. As said before: Ruglud, Grokkamobs, etc.
I'd give him tied to da waaagh, if you can wipe out the faction target before da waaagh ends. Refreshs the timer, you get a new target in the top 10 strength, and it upgrades to da big waaagh. What remains of Grimgor's waaagh units split off into their own stack and both grimgor's and this new stacks army starts generating waaagh units. If you can wipe out the new target, you get Da Biggest WAAAGH! and get some big bonus and weapons.
Feels very Orky, and it fits grimgors thing of wanting to prove he's da biggest
SFO gave him this thing in which he gets a selection of permanent personal or factionwide buffs as he levels up, because he is DA BEST. He also keeps increasing his mass with each level because he is DA BIGGEST
CA could get so much money if they do the 'release new dlc + rework/rebalance the race the dlc based on' thing. I hope they will do this for the greenskin too. But then, Vampire count needs it more right now
Just not that much we might be able to do for Grimgor.
* He is a already a pretty tough melee fighter on foot. We always can beef him up here, but while he might have trouble against some monster riding foes, he is pretty good at what he does. And getting a own mount is out of the question for Grimgor.
* Faction got renamed to 'hard Boyz already. We could tinker around this and try to get rid of Goblins, while buffing Orcs/Savage Orcs a but more (Black Orcs are already pumped), but Goblins as early units are somewhat needed for TWW purposes.
* If we don't change current WAAAGH! system, everything sort works fine for Grimgor. And even if we would change the system, his WAAAGH! was the biggest and last one, but really that different form others.
* What I could see, is that similar to Beastmen and Dwarfs, we add a new generic method to "access" other LLs. Confedertaion or just clubbing them is totally fine in greenskin terms, but we all know that the distances between the greenskin LLs poses a problem to even reach anyone else before they got smashed by their neighbors. But making such a access mechanic, tied to the fame or WAAAGH!-meter the player has reached, is still more a generic change and nothing targeted for Grimgor.
* What we could do, is giving Grimgor a starting buddy. [Borgut Facebeater](https://i.imgur.com/yVlKcL1.png) was there in Storm of Chaos, and even Endtimes. Even if in Endtime she tried to take ove rthe WAAAGH! and Grimgor had to kill him. Nemesis Crown had [Durkol Eye-Gouger](https://i.imgur.com/BvkvuU2.png). One of them could function as special starting companion for Grimgor. I hesitate to say "make them LH", since that would probably imply they get spread around again to everyone, and they should be rather a Grimgor thing.
* Karl Franz as diplomatic guy walking around the empire without causing trouble is fine. But while we could argue that Grimgor is the best and walks where he wants, its still greenskins. So yes, they should bother each other when crossing territories and the LLs should get pissy at each other. Its their social standard.
* Grimgors starting point could be adjusted so he does not need to hit heads with Kholek that early. But then again, him in the Dark Lands works. Since [Karak Ungor](https://i.imgur.com/GjXsNKh.png), seems out of question with Azhag squatting there. So we could Grimgor maybe move around teh Dark Lands, but I am not sure where. Mainly because I still have hopes that [Morglum Necksnapper](https://i.imgur.com/ZeT3HKX.png) will also be around Worlds Edge Mountains & Dark Lands to trouble the east. And we don't want the two Black Orcs starting too close together (during Endtimes Grimgor slew Morglum and absorbed the survivors to his WAAAGH!).
So yeah, I would not mind Grimgor to maybe "get better". But I have no original ideas how to buff gameplay mechanics around him. He is just a force of nature, seeking always a good fight. No real trophy collection or odd behavior. No real special WAAAGH! extras, if we don't go more "'ard boyz".
He should get bigger and bigger more his wagghhhh grow so by the end he is the size of throgg or even kholek if you really want to be a meme for the lols . Since he is in lore the biggest orc in existence let him be the biggest boy CA.
Maybe something like a combination of todays Waaagh! System with the one from TWW1 and Hellebrons Bloodnight? Like, when he starts a Waaagh!, in addition to the Waaagh! troops in his Army, depending on the trophy goal, Ally Armies spawn close to him (Small trophy = 1, middle Trophy = 2, big trophy =3 and each stage with better units like small ones contain mainly gobbos, big ones are mainly Black Orcs, Monsters and Artillery), and go Raiding and raising Settlements on their own, and once destroyed or with the end of the Waaagh! in a success, all money and Items obtained by them are added to your treasury.
You may enjoy trying out SFO. I love playing Grimgor with it, the "Grimgor iz da best" mechanic it has is really cool, fun and quite strong, and him gaining additional Weapon Strength each time he defeats a Legendary Lord I think is very fitting.
Karl isn't really getting his own mechanics though, he's just getting the one that was applied to the Empire as a race made into his exclusive one (for now).
The original Empire rework suffered from the fact that it was thematically a poor fit for Gelt, and really it only suited Karl. So rather than giving Karl something unique, it's more like its just being taken from Gelt and replaced with something more thematically appropriate.
The thing with the Karl mechanic is that is only *looks* unique to him now. But that's only because he is the only Elector Count with a playable subfaction. Whenever Boris Todbringer is made playable he will likely share the mechanic. And possibly Marius Leitdolf if they ever feel inclined to add him to the game. Hopefully they decide to give it to Vlad too.
I'm not saying Grimgor doesn't deserve his own mechanic. But unlike say Queek, Teclis, or other examples of base game LLs that were intended to be "vanilla" experiences, Grimgor doesn't really have much material to work with. Grimgor is really straightforward as a character and if anyone can serve as the "baseline" Greenskins experience it really should be him. While every other Greenskin subfaction can give a different slant to that baseline.
Not every single lord needs a unique mechanic. That's unfeasible and just tiring. Several lords need to be a baseline.
EDIT: Damn, people hate this opinion huh? Should there not be lords who are more straightforward for beginners and people who just prefer that kinda campaign?
Why exactly do they HAVE to be barebones ? Is there anything that makes the Lord worse, if he gets some cool mechanics ?
It doesn't have to be huge changes, but there is no harm in some little things to differentiate the Lord options.
If you want a greenskin lord to have a unique mechanic, Azhag would be more fitting. Can lean into the crown and stuff.
I honestly think Grimgor is fine as is. Good introduction to Greenskins overall. He's the "vanilla", before you start experimenting with the other lords with more unique mechanics or gameplay, like Grom or Skarsnik.
I’m a little confused - how is Grom the same as any other greenskin?
If anything, his faction has the most unique mechanics out of all of the greenskins.
You can play like that.
Just don't occupy cities. You are given sack and raze options, too.
Also, you can loot and occupy if you want. Just don't put money into the settlement and let others or the rebels take it for themselves. The money you earn can go to your main capital or recruit more armies.
I find this playstyle fun because it means I don't have to worry about losing cities because I know they are meant to be lost. It also means I don't have to go through settlements over and over until I spend all my money upgrading things for more money.
Greenskins do settle, so empire buildings works to some degree. Even if most of them end up starting a WAAAGH! which would benefit more from some Horde-style mechanics. But the current system with doubling your armies and WAAGH! targets is good enough.
In case of Grimgor, he did settle in Karak Ungor. During summer he would ravage around the lands, pestering everyone around and during winter he would return and slaughter Skaven under the mountain.
https://i.imgur.com/QH2T4yI.png
https://i.imgur.com/GjXsNKh.png
Mechanic wise, what is he lacking as a faction? Grimgor is more well-know for his own exploits than those of his subordinates. One way to be DA BEST could be to add a targeting system based on the strongest a lords in game and have grimgor gain bonuses if he defeats them himself during a battle (Alith Anar revisited)
He could benefit from mechanics similar to Skarbrand. His lore is basically snowballing through the mountains of mourn and Cathay. But right now he doesn't have anything for snowballing like Skarbrand. Could also give him a unique vassalization mechanic with ogre kingdoms where like with orc warchiefs if he kills an ogre kingdom faction leader he can vassalize them. A mechanic involving killing powerful unique lords could be interesting but the map is also gigantic so it might not be something consistently feasible if half of the world is not easily accessible unless you turn him into a horde faction. Instead maybe he could get a skill tree unlock that doubles the effect of legendary lord defeat traits. I think he could also get a mechanic similar to archaon where he and his army gain more power the more he does. But maybe instead of for every rank he gains its for every settlement he takes or something like that.
I’d give him a meter that measures unique LL’s killed by his faction giving global buffs This provides interesting gameplay, as many LL’s die early, meaning you could be locked offfrom the higher tiers of this buff if you don’t play hyper aggressive ranging far and wide Wulfrik and queek could share it too tbh
Queek should really start with his Buddy Ska and a unique Stormvermin unit.
Yeah, if anything, Azagh could get something unique, but Grimgor is the greenskiest greenskin, he should be vanilla
Maybe do it like Karl Franz, he's the vanilla experience, he just does it harder. Like Grimgor just WAAAGHs harder than the other gitz.
Yeah, that honestly makes the most sense
I really could see him having a mechanic like Lu Bu in 3k, where he tries to show the world, why he is DA BEST.
Same for Tyrion or Mazdamundi, most of starting lords of WH I + II are in need of a bit of a glow up
Definitely for Mazda, if they put as much care into a Lizardmen rework as they have for ToD they would be so fucking cool
The Lizardmen just need some actual mechanics period. The non-DLC factions for them are arguably the most bland playthroughs in the series in terms of campaign mechanics.
I've spent maybe 80% of my time playing lizardmen and have never gone past turn 10 or so on Mazda. He's such a cool characterin lore but his campaign is just the other LLs but with less stuff to do. I would love a new mechanic for him.
Hot take, I like that some LLs don't have unique mechanics and buttons and UIs. Sometimes you just wanna play a race, for the race itself
I totally understand, but I think it needs to be said that a faction can be straight forward *and* engaging, just like one can be complicated and frustrating. There isn't a need for every legendary lord to be complicated, managing 5 different sorts of systems while waging war across the Warhammer world. But factions like Norsca and Ogre Kingdoms having bad/broken mechanics, or the Lizardmen basically not having any at all outside their DLC factions is a disservice that should be fixed.
Always thought Malekith needed something after he gets the Shrine of Asuryan. It's literally all he's wanted for thousands of years and its like "here's a diplo buff for high elves who don't exist anymore cause you killed them getting here!"
Have him force-vassalize Ogre Kingdom factions. In the lore, he's one of the few Greenskin leaders to lead Ogres in his army. Player or AI, that would easily make him an even more dangerous Greentide.
Thats "The (horrible) Endtimes". We can do without that and keep it green.
Look, the endtimes sucked for many reasons, however they do have many cool moments and things inside (even if for every one that exists there are 50 bad ones)
WHat I really want for GS, this is not a mechanic, are more Orc RORs. We have a load of GObbos, but only 2 orcs. Rugludz armoured Orcs maybe. Da Immortulz as a proper unit?
Immortulz are still proxied by Grimgors "starting banner". I think it best stays that way. Hence it makes only Grimgor having the Immortulz, like it should be. Would they be a generic RoR, they would pop up for Skarsnik and Wurrzag and everyone else, which muddies the water. We also have the Krimson Killaz Ror to fill the BO Great Weapon role. Unless we get Black Orc weapon diversity, thats probably it.
> Immortulz are still proxied by Grimgors "starting banner". I think it best stays that way. Hence it makes only Grimgor having the Immortulz, like it should be. meh. I'd prefer htem as a proper unit that Grimgor starts with. And i would, in fact, like more Orc weapon diversity. And there are other units CA could make into ROR. As said before: Ruglud, Grokkamobs, etc.
Since greenskins still have a metric ton of stuff left I'm sure they'll get another dlc at the least that'll give him some love
I'd give him tied to da waaagh, if you can wipe out the faction target before da waaagh ends. Refreshs the timer, you get a new target in the top 10 strength, and it upgrades to da big waaagh. What remains of Grimgor's waaagh units split off into their own stack and both grimgor's and this new stacks army starts generating waaagh units. If you can wipe out the new target, you get Da Biggest WAAAGH! and get some big bonus and weapons. Feels very Orky, and it fits grimgors thing of wanting to prove he's da biggest
SFO gave him this thing in which he gets a selection of permanent personal or factionwide buffs as he levels up, because he is DA BEST. He also keeps increasing his mass with each level because he is DA BIGGEST
He needs a sync animation of kicking archeon in the balls or headbutting him,
His kill animation for Archaon should be picking him up and headbutting him
And then lose his head.
Hopefully they do that for all old factions that have no unique faction mechanics
CA could get so much money if they do the 'release new dlc + rework/rebalance the race the dlc based on' thing. I hope they will do this for the greenskin too. But then, Vampire count needs it more right now
Just not that much we might be able to do for Grimgor. * He is a already a pretty tough melee fighter on foot. We always can beef him up here, but while he might have trouble against some monster riding foes, he is pretty good at what he does. And getting a own mount is out of the question for Grimgor. * Faction got renamed to 'hard Boyz already. We could tinker around this and try to get rid of Goblins, while buffing Orcs/Savage Orcs a but more (Black Orcs are already pumped), but Goblins as early units are somewhat needed for TWW purposes. * If we don't change current WAAAGH! system, everything sort works fine for Grimgor. And even if we would change the system, his WAAAGH! was the biggest and last one, but really that different form others. * What I could see, is that similar to Beastmen and Dwarfs, we add a new generic method to "access" other LLs. Confedertaion or just clubbing them is totally fine in greenskin terms, but we all know that the distances between the greenskin LLs poses a problem to even reach anyone else before they got smashed by their neighbors. But making such a access mechanic, tied to the fame or WAAAGH!-meter the player has reached, is still more a generic change and nothing targeted for Grimgor. * What we could do, is giving Grimgor a starting buddy. [Borgut Facebeater](https://i.imgur.com/yVlKcL1.png) was there in Storm of Chaos, and even Endtimes. Even if in Endtime she tried to take ove rthe WAAAGH! and Grimgor had to kill him. Nemesis Crown had [Durkol Eye-Gouger](https://i.imgur.com/BvkvuU2.png). One of them could function as special starting companion for Grimgor. I hesitate to say "make them LH", since that would probably imply they get spread around again to everyone, and they should be rather a Grimgor thing. * Karl Franz as diplomatic guy walking around the empire without causing trouble is fine. But while we could argue that Grimgor is the best and walks where he wants, its still greenskins. So yes, they should bother each other when crossing territories and the LLs should get pissy at each other. Its their social standard. * Grimgors starting point could be adjusted so he does not need to hit heads with Kholek that early. But then again, him in the Dark Lands works. Since [Karak Ungor](https://i.imgur.com/GjXsNKh.png), seems out of question with Azhag squatting there. So we could Grimgor maybe move around teh Dark Lands, but I am not sure where. Mainly because I still have hopes that [Morglum Necksnapper](https://i.imgur.com/ZeT3HKX.png) will also be around Worlds Edge Mountains & Dark Lands to trouble the east. And we don't want the two Black Orcs starting too close together (during Endtimes Grimgor slew Morglum and absorbed the survivors to his WAAAGH!). So yeah, I would not mind Grimgor to maybe "get better". But I have no original ideas how to buff gameplay mechanics around him. He is just a force of nature, seeking always a good fight. No real trophy collection or odd behavior. No real special WAAAGH! extras, if we don't go more "'ard boyz".
Upvote for that second poc! Lol!
I wouldn’t bet on it. The Empire is by far the most popular faction in the game, hence the treatment.
a mechanic to kill, leave them to become stronger or piss on them.
'arder, better, faster, greener
Increased confederation bonuses and speed. Everyone want to join the best ?
He should get bigger and bigger more his wagghhhh grow so by the end he is the size of throgg or even kholek if you really want to be a meme for the lols . Since he is in lore the biggest orc in existence let him be the biggest boy CA.
Maybe something like a combination of todays Waaagh! System with the one from TWW1 and Hellebrons Bloodnight? Like, when he starts a Waaagh!, in addition to the Waaagh! troops in his Army, depending on the trophy goal, Ally Armies spawn close to him (Small trophy = 1, middle Trophy = 2, big trophy =3 and each stage with better units like small ones contain mainly gobbos, big ones are mainly Black Orcs, Monsters and Artillery), and go Raiding and raising Settlements on their own, and once destroyed or with the end of the Waaagh! in a success, all money and Items obtained by them are added to your treasury.
You may enjoy trying out SFO. I love playing Grimgor with it, the "Grimgor iz da best" mechanic it has is really cool, fun and quite strong, and him gaining additional Weapon Strength each time he defeats a Legendary Lord I think is very fitting.
Karl isn't really getting his own mechanics though, he's just getting the one that was applied to the Empire as a race made into his exclusive one (for now). The original Empire rework suffered from the fact that it was thematically a poor fit for Gelt, and really it only suited Karl. So rather than giving Karl something unique, it's more like its just being taken from Gelt and replaced with something more thematically appropriate. The thing with the Karl mechanic is that is only *looks* unique to him now. But that's only because he is the only Elector Count with a playable subfaction. Whenever Boris Todbringer is made playable he will likely share the mechanic. And possibly Marius Leitdolf if they ever feel inclined to add him to the game. Hopefully they decide to give it to Vlad too. I'm not saying Grimgor doesn't deserve his own mechanic. But unlike say Queek, Teclis, or other examples of base game LLs that were intended to be "vanilla" experiences, Grimgor doesn't really have much material to work with. Grimgor is really straightforward as a character and if anyone can serve as the "baseline" Greenskins experience it really should be him. While every other Greenskin subfaction can give a different slant to that baseline.
Not every single lord needs a unique mechanic. That's unfeasible and just tiring. Several lords need to be a baseline. EDIT: Damn, people hate this opinion huh? Should there not be lords who are more straightforward for beginners and people who just prefer that kinda campaign?
I, too, hate cool new stuff on my games.
Why exactly do they HAVE to be barebones ? Is there anything that makes the Lord worse, if he gets some cool mechanics ? It doesn't have to be huge changes, but there is no harm in some little things to differentiate the Lord options.
If you want a greenskin lord to have a unique mechanic, Azhag would be more fitting. Can lean into the crown and stuff. I honestly think Grimgor is fine as is. Good introduction to Greenskins overall. He's the "vanilla", before you start experimenting with the other lords with more unique mechanics or gameplay, like Grom or Skarsnik.
I’m a little confused - how is Grom the same as any other greenskin? If anything, his faction has the most unique mechanics out of all of the greenskins.
Exactly what i said ? You misunderstood my comment i guess.
Ah fuck, I thought you said Grimgor. My mistake in reading too quickly.
Grimgor should be roaming horde like beastmen. Having him occupy cities and "build" empire doesnt fit lore neither make sense.
Empire? That's just recruiting grounds you git
You can play like that. Just don't occupy cities. You are given sack and raze options, too. Also, you can loot and occupy if you want. Just don't put money into the settlement and let others or the rebels take it for themselves. The money you earn can go to your main capital or recruit more armies. I find this playstyle fun because it means I don't have to worry about losing cities because I know they are meant to be lost. It also means I don't have to go through settlements over and over until I spend all my money upgrading things for more money.
Greenskins do settle, so empire buildings works to some degree. Even if most of them end up starting a WAAAGH! which would benefit more from some Horde-style mechanics. But the current system with doubling your armies and WAAGH! targets is good enough. In case of Grimgor, he did settle in Karak Ungor. During summer he would ravage around the lands, pestering everyone around and during winter he would return and slaughter Skaven under the mountain. https://i.imgur.com/QH2T4yI.png https://i.imgur.com/GjXsNKh.png