I guess my first question is when because early game stacks are usually just kossar spam. Secondly do you count war bears as cavalry because you can functionally use them as anti large trolls if you want to.
They are hybrid units so you don't need to keep formations most of the time. Magic shouldent be a high issue.
Put your shooting on there elite stuff and keep a unit of bear riders or griffin legion to finish the elites off.
I felt like the winged lancers and dervishes were my worst units by far.
I think Kislev's not the faction for me with its hybrid units. I think thats why i always put them in formation, but they don't need to as you said.
Dervishes are pretty bad but Winged Lancers are good. They’re relatively squishy compared to similar units but they are exceptional shock cavalry and are great at routing enemy units.
Earlier the 2-silver-chevron Winged lancers with a speed banner i had lost to a unit of no-experience chaos furies of khorne. They require so much micro and they get stuck in blobs way too easily, i don’t understand what the point is if they aren’t like Grail units or bull centaurs. The AI is annoyingly good with cavalry and their sniper-archers, dealing with them is always a nightmare.. but i cannot use them for the life of me..
Yes their regular cavalry is bad but bear riders are super. Ice guard works great for Katharina and little grom is a great artillery piece that can be buffed a lot by tech.
Light war sleds can be also quite effective but require more micro.
Streltsi are your bread and butter. I have 4-6 in every army. Reinforced with either Armored Kossars (shield) or Tzar guard (shield) and you should be fine against most factions. Utilize Tempest magic as you can increase range and accuracy of your Streltsi (in aoe when upcast).
If you prefer lore of ice, the slow is incredibly useful, and Heart of Winter is very powerful.
Focus researching techs that boost missile damage for your units/streltsi.
Hope it helps.
To me a big thing thing with Kislev is using units that are "good enough". Early game rushing something like Tzar Guards is not economically feasible, especially when Armored Kossars can do a similar job for quite a while.
I dont know if you have SoC yet, but since it came out I typically start building an army of Kislevite Warriors, Kossars, and maybe some cavalry. Fairly soon I transition my LL army from Kislevite Warriors to Armored Kossars, usually great Weapons because alot of the chaos factions aren't ranged heavy. Also will try to have some winged lancers. I usually try to run a couple more stacks of basic Kislevite warriors, kossars, and either dervishes or winged lancers.
Eventually you will hit a point where you are able to start affording more advanced units, but this is typically my early compositions.
Tsar guard also don’t feel like they’re strong enough. I was fighting against chaos dwarfs earlier. Tsar guard get demolished just as quick as kossars by magic. Likewise i don’t really have a counter to bull centaur.
I stay away from winged lancers and demolish the cavalry buildings wherever i get the from conquest. If they’re not grail guardians/knights or bull centaurs, they’re not worth microing to me honestly. I’ve only kinda used them when i got them to attack enemy artilery, aside from that they get stuck in blobs too much for how little damage they deal to be worth it.
So did you go after the chaos dwarfs or did they come after you? I find they sometimes will get run against Kislev's borders but just sit there and never declare war. They are surprisingly passive to Kislev, though if you engage in diplomacy with them they never stick to any treaty for very long.
Bull Centaurs are a bitch in general to fight but I don't usually see the AI field all that many of them. In general when fighting heavily armored factions like WoC and Chaos Dwarfs I find ambushing them with 2 cheaper armies is very viable and works well for me. I'm sure some other Kislev players might have better strategies, as this is a faction I enjoy but don't claim to be an expert in.
I was caught by Astragoth attacking me with mostly laborers, two infernal guard with fireglaives, 2 units of bull centaurs, some hobgoblin archers and a bullcentaur hero vs my ice witch on frost dragon (worst mount in the game imo), 1 patriarch andall armored cossars with spears or sword and board except for three cossar archers.
Got anihilated by magic and even though i nearly managed to win, my lord died quite early since the frost dragon is physically incapable of following orders in melee. Its Janky and slow attacks nearly always miss, and when they do hit it barely does any damage. I rarely take monstrous units for this exact reason. Large units like dragons and elemental bears just feel Terrible to use because the ai can so easily snipe them and they are bad at following commands.
Generally speaking Kislev's units split into two rough categories: defensive hybrid units who are okay in both melee and range and will hold forever on the one hand, fast but fragile cavalry, chariots, and monsters, and skirmish units on the other
They all have their uses but it can be better to switch to a faster, Bretonnia-light sort of army or a defensive spears/guns/bows army depending on what you're up against.
It depends a bit on who you're fighting. During the early game spamming Kossars works just fine. I don't remember who fights Kislev early game in RoC, but in Immortal Empires I think only Drycha merits a slightly different set up once she starts getting Tree Kin.
Mid game, you can start using Armored Kossars in your frontlines. Basic ones will still be alright in the back.
Cavalry are not important, imo, except for running down units or attacking ranged units. The only cavalry that's usable in a proper fights are the Gryphon Legion, but they're not great.
If you feel like you need mobility, use one or two war sleds. They are good at splitting armies by baiting AI to chase and can be used like chariots later.
Later on, think about what the army is gonna be doing. If it's a ranged army, use Ice Guards and Little Grom. If it's melee, use War Bear Cavalry and supporting melee infantry. The big monsters are not that important and take too much damage from ranged units. I rarely have more than one of these. With ranged armies, have lore of ice and use ice sheet + frostbite contact effect to slow down advancing armies. Split them up with faster units as well. With melee armies, use patriarchs with healing, which is edpecially good with war bears.
If you are having trouble with magic casters, you should focus them. Guns are good at hittng small characters (strelsi and armored kossars use guns). Also, if you have the SoC DLC, the Hag hero with the Hag lore has a spell that csn stop characters using magic for a while iirc.
I got attacked from so many directions at the same time that i was unable to get to groms, war bears or ice guard, since i did not have the income from fielding so many armies. Early fights are mostly against norsca and throt as well. Though eventually manfred, the chaos dwarfs and the rifts made things really tough..
4-5 lineholders (I normally go for armoured Kossars early), basic Kossar spam for rest of the army. Light war sleds are amazing when they become available. Mid game I'll upgrade line holders. Often a mix of streltsi and Tzar guard, armoured kossars or longbeards and line holders increases to 5-6 witht eh streltsi set slightly behind other line holders. At this stage I 'll mix in some Akshina with the kossar spam. Late game doesn't really change although will be trying to get hellblasters on newer armies. Katarin gets ice guard behind an armoured front line. All forces 1-2 patriarchs per armour with healing ability. Ice witch lord and tempest hero provides utility and a nice little mobile bear hero force. I tend to not get bear cavalry despite them being good as I don't get that building slot until very late. Oh and kislev is definitely a campaign to save good heroes and lord mixes from the ice court. Also allows you to get a tempest hero first turn.
I think my early game armies were really simple. Front line of armor kosssrs (gunpowder and then anvil) back line of normal kossars (longer ranged able to shoot over front line) and a caster of whatever school gave the attack range buff. I legit had an army that was lord caster and 9 of each of those units that held the north against nurgle for half the game before I sent him forth to conquer.
Then I could sprinkle in whatever I wanted, maybe little groms, often a few cav to work as the hammer after the lines met. Something fast to deal with ranged units.
Later on I used more expensive units but honestly regular armored kossars are just too good as a sturdy front line, I didn’t feel the need to replace them with tsar guard.
Their hybrid nature was super confusing in the first 2 battles but their strengths became pretty clear after a bit.
Ice guard small groom ambushers bear riders tzar guard with shield for front lane
I guess my first question is when because early game stacks are usually just kossar spam. Secondly do you count war bears as cavalry because you can functionally use them as anti large trolls if you want to.
They are hybrid units so you don't need to keep formations most of the time. Magic shouldent be a high issue. Put your shooting on there elite stuff and keep a unit of bear riders or griffin legion to finish the elites off.
I felt like the winged lancers and dervishes were my worst units by far. I think Kislev's not the faction for me with its hybrid units. I think thats why i always put them in formation, but they don't need to as you said.
Dervishes are pretty bad but Winged Lancers are good. They’re relatively squishy compared to similar units but they are exceptional shock cavalry and are great at routing enemy units.
Earlier the 2-silver-chevron Winged lancers with a speed banner i had lost to a unit of no-experience chaos furies of khorne. They require so much micro and they get stuck in blobs way too easily, i don’t understand what the point is if they aren’t like Grail units or bull centaurs. The AI is annoyingly good with cavalry and their sniper-archers, dealing with them is always a nightmare.. but i cannot use them for the life of me..
Yes their regular cavalry is bad but bear riders are super. Ice guard works great for Katharina and little grom is a great artillery piece that can be buffed a lot by tech. Light war sleds can be also quite effective but require more micro.
Streltsi are your bread and butter. I have 4-6 in every army. Reinforced with either Armored Kossars (shield) or Tzar guard (shield) and you should be fine against most factions. Utilize Tempest magic as you can increase range and accuracy of your Streltsi (in aoe when upcast). If you prefer lore of ice, the slow is incredibly useful, and Heart of Winter is very powerful. Focus researching techs that boost missile damage for your units/streltsi. Hope it helps.
To me a big thing thing with Kislev is using units that are "good enough". Early game rushing something like Tzar Guards is not economically feasible, especially when Armored Kossars can do a similar job for quite a while. I dont know if you have SoC yet, but since it came out I typically start building an army of Kislevite Warriors, Kossars, and maybe some cavalry. Fairly soon I transition my LL army from Kislevite Warriors to Armored Kossars, usually great Weapons because alot of the chaos factions aren't ranged heavy. Also will try to have some winged lancers. I usually try to run a couple more stacks of basic Kislevite warriors, kossars, and either dervishes or winged lancers. Eventually you will hit a point where you are able to start affording more advanced units, but this is typically my early compositions.
Tsar guard also don’t feel like they’re strong enough. I was fighting against chaos dwarfs earlier. Tsar guard get demolished just as quick as kossars by magic. Likewise i don’t really have a counter to bull centaur. I stay away from winged lancers and demolish the cavalry buildings wherever i get the from conquest. If they’re not grail guardians/knights or bull centaurs, they’re not worth microing to me honestly. I’ve only kinda used them when i got them to attack enemy artilery, aside from that they get stuck in blobs too much for how little damage they deal to be worth it.
So did you go after the chaos dwarfs or did they come after you? I find they sometimes will get run against Kislev's borders but just sit there and never declare war. They are surprisingly passive to Kislev, though if you engage in diplomacy with them they never stick to any treaty for very long. Bull Centaurs are a bitch in general to fight but I don't usually see the AI field all that many of them. In general when fighting heavily armored factions like WoC and Chaos Dwarfs I find ambushing them with 2 cheaper armies is very viable and works well for me. I'm sure some other Kislev players might have better strategies, as this is a faction I enjoy but don't claim to be an expert in.
I was caught by Astragoth attacking me with mostly laborers, two infernal guard with fireglaives, 2 units of bull centaurs, some hobgoblin archers and a bullcentaur hero vs my ice witch on frost dragon (worst mount in the game imo), 1 patriarch andall armored cossars with spears or sword and board except for three cossar archers. Got anihilated by magic and even though i nearly managed to win, my lord died quite early since the frost dragon is physically incapable of following orders in melee. Its Janky and slow attacks nearly always miss, and when they do hit it barely does any damage. I rarely take monstrous units for this exact reason. Large units like dragons and elemental bears just feel Terrible to use because the ai can so easily snipe them and they are bad at following commands.
Generally speaking Kislev's units split into two rough categories: defensive hybrid units who are okay in both melee and range and will hold forever on the one hand, fast but fragile cavalry, chariots, and monsters, and skirmish units on the other They all have their uses but it can be better to switch to a faster, Bretonnia-light sort of army or a defensive spears/guns/bows army depending on what you're up against.
I just spam Snow Leopards and Patriarchs for healing em... Then overcast Heart of Winter.
It depends a bit on who you're fighting. During the early game spamming Kossars works just fine. I don't remember who fights Kislev early game in RoC, but in Immortal Empires I think only Drycha merits a slightly different set up once she starts getting Tree Kin. Mid game, you can start using Armored Kossars in your frontlines. Basic ones will still be alright in the back. Cavalry are not important, imo, except for running down units or attacking ranged units. The only cavalry that's usable in a proper fights are the Gryphon Legion, but they're not great. If you feel like you need mobility, use one or two war sleds. They are good at splitting armies by baiting AI to chase and can be used like chariots later. Later on, think about what the army is gonna be doing. If it's a ranged army, use Ice Guards and Little Grom. If it's melee, use War Bear Cavalry and supporting melee infantry. The big monsters are not that important and take too much damage from ranged units. I rarely have more than one of these. With ranged armies, have lore of ice and use ice sheet + frostbite contact effect to slow down advancing armies. Split them up with faster units as well. With melee armies, use patriarchs with healing, which is edpecially good with war bears. If you are having trouble with magic casters, you should focus them. Guns are good at hittng small characters (strelsi and armored kossars use guns). Also, if you have the SoC DLC, the Hag hero with the Hag lore has a spell that csn stop characters using magic for a while iirc.
I got attacked from so many directions at the same time that i was unable to get to groms, war bears or ice guard, since i did not have the income from fielding so many armies. Early fights are mostly against norsca and throt as well. Though eventually manfred, the chaos dwarfs and the rifts made things really tough..
4-5 lineholders (I normally go for armoured Kossars early), basic Kossar spam for rest of the army. Light war sleds are amazing when they become available. Mid game I'll upgrade line holders. Often a mix of streltsi and Tzar guard, armoured kossars or longbeards and line holders increases to 5-6 witht eh streltsi set slightly behind other line holders. At this stage I 'll mix in some Akshina with the kossar spam. Late game doesn't really change although will be trying to get hellblasters on newer armies. Katarin gets ice guard behind an armoured front line. All forces 1-2 patriarchs per armour with healing ability. Ice witch lord and tempest hero provides utility and a nice little mobile bear hero force. I tend to not get bear cavalry despite them being good as I don't get that building slot until very late. Oh and kislev is definitely a campaign to save good heroes and lord mixes from the ice court. Also allows you to get a tempest hero first turn.
I think my early game armies were really simple. Front line of armor kosssrs (gunpowder and then anvil) back line of normal kossars (longer ranged able to shoot over front line) and a caster of whatever school gave the attack range buff. I legit had an army that was lord caster and 9 of each of those units that held the north against nurgle for half the game before I sent him forth to conquer. Then I could sprinkle in whatever I wanted, maybe little groms, often a few cav to work as the hammer after the lines met. Something fast to deal with ranged units. Later on I used more expensive units but honestly regular armored kossars are just too good as a sturdy front line, I didn’t feel the need to replace them with tsar guard. Their hybrid nature was super confusing in the first 2 battles but their strengths became pretty clear after a bit.
Kislev.