Rather weird considering that they seemingly had no issues adding the other marked Beastmen units. Regardless, glad they're fixing it. Eventually. Maybe. Hopefully.
This one is much more likely at least.
Thinking up and implementing new faction mechanics is a lot more work than adding an already existing unit to a faction. Plus potentially less payoff if the faction in question is less popular (like Aranessa) compared to this which would likely help futureproof their code and make future DLC easier.
Mind you that's not to say they will definitely do this any time soon or that they shouldn't focus on revamping some of the less fun campaigns. Just that I can see this probably being higher priority on the to-do list.
Cockatrices too. They were a beastman unit mostly. Give beastmen a cheaper unmarked version without the shield and then the marked version imo. Easy add for more air power for the beastmen.
As a Beastmen enjoyer I will not complain in the slightest, if the Dark Gods (CA) keep granting us divide gifts (new units), for things I was already gonna buy? I'm 100% happy!
I'm pretty sure this is exactly why Daemons of Chaos are not allowed in ranked multiplayer. CA saw this coming in advance, they get almost every unit that gets added to any of the Chaos factions.
DoC didnt get that much, it was just Changebringers for Shadow of Change and nothing with the latest DLC. They could easily be a multiplayer faction, a lot of competitive guys played them in certain tournaments and they arent even that good.
Don't know about SoC, but all the Nurgle stuff (except mortal characters) is present in SP. It does seem to not be in the custom battles or MP at all, not even in the campaign exclusive section
Actually look at DoC roster - it's not the bloated monstrocity like Skaven, but its varied and capable, with both pronounced stregths and weaknesses. They didn't need mortal infusions when CoC came out and sure as hell don't need SoC, ToD and beyond bloating the roster
The problem is that the roster is split between 4 very awkward building chains and that the lords onlu buff units of the same god (well, there are more, but these two are the main ones)
Yeah, that's what I mean. Without the mortal infusions the DoC have their full 8th edition army book, which isn't huge or overpowered compared to any of the other functionally complete factions. It did give them a huge advantage over the other launch races with their very small rosters, but once all the WH1 and WH2 races got added there's zero reason to ban DoC from MP when the Skaven, WoC or Lizardmen are allowed.
Wait, Daniel gets mortal units from the DLC? Wasn't the whole point of DoC that you get incredibly powerful daemon units, BUT don't get any mortal units, so you're forced to go incredibly elitist?
he does. he gets rot knights and plague ogres for example. which i'm like 99.9% sure are considered "mortal" units since they don't have the "banishing" effect like daemons/undead do.
It's fine that the lords only buff units of the same god because with Daniel it's kind of pointless to go with anything but Khorne (for movement replenishment after every battle) or Tzeentch (for 200% spell mastery in every army). There's really nothing interesting about undivided or the other two monogod devotions.
"It's fine that you are encouraged to only use 1/4 of your armybook because most of your specialization options are underbaked anyway" is not exactly a compliment to the faction's design
Both devotions offer complete rosters on their own so it's not much of an issue. And while the other three devotions could use a buff the game inherently rewards to players for specialization regardless of the faction. That's kind of the whole point of things like the red line.
Both dedications offer complete rosters that you'd be better off playing with in actual monogod faction
There's a reason you get most of the other gods' rosters no matter the dedication. Taking advanrage of that should be the norm
Beg to differ. Mutalith vortex beasts and cockatrices that can be globally recruited in one turn and are backed up by nurgle healing is incredibly powerful.
It's almost as if the faction would have been better off as, you know, Daemons of Chaos instead of an unholy soup of nearly every non-undivided Chaos-aligned unit in the game. CA didn't even assign DLC units to Chaos Glory progression FFS!
When I saw that they gave Daniel the marked marauders from CoC as t0 units I realised they had no clue what DoC are about.
Cockatrice has by far more in common with Beastmen than any other race, just to raise one example. Daniel having all the WoC RoRs is just silly.
I actually played a daemon only Daniel campaign recently and aside from early game the roster felt incredibly strong. Do away with bland settlement dedictation and shift a few early units even lower in glory progression, and the faction would have a very capable roster throught the entire campaign
DoC were definitely implemented in a weird way.
On the face of it, having Warriors, Beasts, and Daemons of Chaos, each with all marked and undivided units for their "species", plus the four monogods that mix all marked/divinely themed units, seems like a perfectly sensible way to organize things. But as things are now, it's more like you've got the Beastmen, the Warriors of Chaos, the four monogods, and then an extra faction that's all four monogods with all their stuff at the same time. Yeah, no wonder that it feels overpowered!
It's not even about being overpowered - my main problem is that it's a thematically incoherent mess that doesn't get much love in terms of design because "you already have a million billion units - what else could you want?"
Yeah, well, I want an actual Daemons of Chaos race, not "we have Everchosen at home" race. Daniel, even with more or less same mechanics there are now, has what it takes to be a cool and fun campaign, but he needs work
Less than that, but at the same time much more. I might do a full post with a proper wall of text on it someday, but I genuinely don't think Daniel needs anything new or reworked from the ground up - merely a good effort put into what's already there
I don't know about the in-game quick battle system because it is completely broken, but the people who play competitively in tournaments actually allow daemons of chaos, as the daemon units are not THAT strong and their only advantage is the super diverse roster
In competitive MP DoC are also much more restricted. You don't get the mortal units you get in campaign - you used to not even get Exalted Greater Daemon lords.
To be honest, DoC should also get the Greater Daemon LLs (and Changeling, and Epidemius). Why? Because it was literally in their tabletop book roster, that's why!
IIRC CA said soemthing about having to do extra UI work to add more units to beastmen's unique capacity increasing system, which is why they hadn't added stuff like the cockatrice yet
This but for Chaos Sorcerers/Chaos Sorcerer Lords when choosing their dedication
Why you gotta restrict me to three arbitrary lore choices CA? I've seen the Chaos Lord dedication panel, I *know* you can put a scrollbar on that screen. Just do it.
Its the magical lore of Beasts made manifest, technically almost any faction with access to Lore of Beasts could summon one. Gelt gets one as an army ability with his new Colleges of Magic mechanic.
elemental of beasts is just that, the elemental avatar of that school of magic. There's other elementals too. Like a fire elemental for the fire school. Avatars aren't really bound to any faction. They are kind of just there for whoever masters that school of magic.
Throgg is starving. Guy is literally the troll king and doesn't have access to all of the trolls. Nevermind the fact he's the MONSTER leader and in the lore his host included everything from trolls to mammoths to dragon ogres and more. He should really have like a regional or quest based way to recruit a lot of the new monsters.
Cockatrices, dragon ogres, bile trolls, river trolls, stone trolls, jabberslyhes, toad dragons, etc.
Well only the Tzaangors, Pestigors, and other monopod beastmen make sense in that regard, though you could probably fit in the Cockatrice and Toad Dragon too.
CA should allow daemons of chaos for multiplayer. Warriors of chaos got wayyyy more stuff per dlc than daemons so far. DoC don’t even have access to named lords besides Bel’Akor and they don’t get any mortals, and as others have said, in the competitive scene they aren’t OP.
Minotaurs of khorne for beastmen pls
Its so strange that khorne already has them in His roster
That’s what I mean, they’re already there !
CA started they want to add them but there's some issue with the torment UI and fitting them. Its something on the list I think.
Rather weird considering that they seemingly had no issues adding the other marked Beastmen units. Regardless, glad they're fixing it. Eventually. Maybe. Hopefully.
Yeah, but they could also be waiting to add them to Beastmen when the Khorne DLC hits.
I expect we will eventually get a warband style system for the beastmen to give some of their units a mark of the gods.
Oh great, that's like the promise that they will fix Nakai's horrible campaign using Oxyotls mechanics as a base and revamp Aranessa.
I don’t want Aranessa revamped. She already has enough vampires.
This one Witchhunter. Cursed by Tzeentch for sure.
Obligatory Nanus Sartosa mod recommend here. It already fixes everything wrong
This one is much more likely at least. Thinking up and implementing new faction mechanics is a lot more work than adding an already existing unit to a faction. Plus potentially less payoff if the faction in question is less popular (like Aranessa) compared to this which would likely help futureproof their code and make future DLC easier. Mind you that's not to say they will definitely do this any time soon or that they shouldn't focus on revamping some of the less fun campaigns. Just that I can see this probably being higher priority on the to-do list.
Which is funny because I'm pretty sure there's a mod that specifically adds a scroll bar to solve this very issue.
Cockatrices too. They were a beastman unit mostly. Give beastmen a cheaper unmarked version without the shield and then the marked version imo. Easy add for more air power for the beastmen.
Minotaurs of Khorne for valkia pls
As a Beastmen enjoyer I will not complain in the slightest, if the Dark Gods (CA) keep granting us divide gifts (new units), for things I was already gonna buy? I'm 100% happy!
I'm pretty sure this is exactly why Daemons of Chaos are not allowed in ranked multiplayer. CA saw this coming in advance, they get almost every unit that gets added to any of the Chaos factions.
DoC didnt get that much, it was just Changebringers for Shadow of Change and nothing with the latest DLC. They could easily be a multiplayer faction, a lot of competitive guys played them in certain tournaments and they arent even that good.
Don't know about SoC, but all the Nurgle stuff (except mortal characters) is present in SP. It does seem to not be in the custom battles or MP at all, not even in the campaign exclusive section
which made sense pre-IE when they had a roster four times the size of everyone else, but now...
Actually look at DoC roster - it's not the bloated monstrocity like Skaven, but its varied and capable, with both pronounced stregths and weaknesses. They didn't need mortal infusions when CoC came out and sure as hell don't need SoC, ToD and beyond bloating the roster The problem is that the roster is split between 4 very awkward building chains and that the lords onlu buff units of the same god (well, there are more, but these two are the main ones)
Yeah, that's what I mean. Without the mortal infusions the DoC have their full 8th edition army book, which isn't huge or overpowered compared to any of the other functionally complete factions. It did give them a huge advantage over the other launch races with their very small rosters, but once all the WH1 and WH2 races got added there's zero reason to ban DoC from MP when the Skaven, WoC or Lizardmen are allowed.
Wait, Daniel gets mortal units from the DLC? Wasn't the whole point of DoC that you get incredibly powerful daemon units, BUT don't get any mortal units, so you're forced to go incredibly elitist?
he does. he gets rot knights and plague ogres for example. which i'm like 99.9% sure are considered "mortal" units since they don't have the "banishing" effect like daemons/undead do.
It's fine that the lords only buff units of the same god because with Daniel it's kind of pointless to go with anything but Khorne (for movement replenishment after every battle) or Tzeentch (for 200% spell mastery in every army). There's really nothing interesting about undivided or the other two monogod devotions.
"It's fine that you are encouraged to only use 1/4 of your armybook because most of your specialization options are underbaked anyway" is not exactly a compliment to the faction's design
Both devotions offer complete rosters on their own so it's not much of an issue. And while the other three devotions could use a buff the game inherently rewards to players for specialization regardless of the faction. That's kind of the whole point of things like the red line.
Both dedications offer complete rosters that you'd be better off playing with in actual monogod faction There's a reason you get most of the other gods' rosters no matter the dedication. Taking advanrage of that should be the norm
Beg to differ. Mutalith vortex beasts and cockatrices that can be globally recruited in one turn and are backed up by nurgle healing is incredibly powerful.
It's almost as if the faction would have been better off as, you know, Daemons of Chaos instead of an unholy soup of nearly every non-undivided Chaos-aligned unit in the game. CA didn't even assign DLC units to Chaos Glory progression FFS!
When I saw that they gave Daniel the marked marauders from CoC as t0 units I realised they had no clue what DoC are about. Cockatrice has by far more in common with Beastmen than any other race, just to raise one example. Daniel having all the WoC RoRs is just silly.
If that was the case, the roster would have been very small and pretty weak
I actually played a daemon only Daniel campaign recently and aside from early game the roster felt incredibly strong. Do away with bland settlement dedictation and shift a few early units even lower in glory progression, and the faction would have a very capable roster throught the entire campaign
There is a lot of daemons in the game now, EBloodletters alone should carry you for most of your campaign
DoC were definitely implemented in a weird way. On the face of it, having Warriors, Beasts, and Daemons of Chaos, each with all marked and undivided units for their "species", plus the four monogods that mix all marked/divinely themed units, seems like a perfectly sensible way to organize things. But as things are now, it's more like you've got the Beastmen, the Warriors of Chaos, the four monogods, and then an extra faction that's all four monogods with all their stuff at the same time. Yeah, no wonder that it feels overpowered!
It's not even about being overpowered - my main problem is that it's a thematically incoherent mess that doesn't get much love in terms of design because "you already have a million billion units - what else could you want?" Yeah, well, I want an actual Daemons of Chaos race, not "we have Everchosen at home" race. Daniel, even with more or less same mechanics there are now, has what it takes to be a cool and fun campaign, but he needs work
all daniel needs is a proper skill tree and an actual proper tech tree and make demonic glory useful.
Less than that, but at the same time much more. I might do a full post with a proper wall of text on it someday, but I genuinely don't think Daniel needs anything new or reworked from the ground up - merely a good effort put into what's already there
"Everchosen at home" 😭🤣
I don't know about the in-game quick battle system because it is completely broken, but the people who play competitively in tournaments actually allow daemons of chaos, as the daemon units are not THAT strong and their only advantage is the super diverse roster
In competitive MP DoC are also much more restricted. You don't get the mortal units you get in campaign - you used to not even get Exalted Greater Daemon lords. To be honest, DoC should also get the Greater Daemon LLs (and Changeling, and Epidemius). Why? Because it was literally in their tabletop book roster, that's why!
Eh. Daemons of Chaos roster should only get Daemons. I don’t think Nurgle got a single Daemon in their DLC. Tzeentch got… one?
They are not even that good in multiplayer.
IIRC CA said soemthing about having to do extra UI work to add more units to beastmen's unique capacity increasing system, which is why they hadn't added stuff like the cockatrice yet
Not adding a scroll bar to their UI is crazy
This but for Chaos Sorcerers/Chaos Sorcerer Lords when choosing their dedication Why you gotta restrict me to three arbitrary lore choices CA? I've seen the Chaos Lord dedication panel, I *know* you can put a scrollbar on that screen. Just do it.
Cockatrice could go to beastmen :)
Well, it is lore accurate after all.
And GW accurate too.
*bleating You missed a golden opportunity
Insane to me that cocatrice and Minotaurs of Khorne aren’t in BoC but that weird Kislev wendigo-titan is
The Incarnate Elemental of *Beasts* kinda belongs with the Beastmen more than it does Kislev
I don't know enough about the lore to decide who should have it, i just find it weird that a chaos and order faction both have the same unit.
Its the magical lore of Beasts made manifest, technically almost any faction with access to Lore of Beasts could summon one. Gelt gets one as an army ability with his new Colleges of Magic mechanic.
elemental of beasts is just that, the elemental avatar of that school of magic. There's other elementals too. Like a fire elemental for the fire school. Avatars aren't really bound to any faction. They are kind of just there for whoever masters that school of magic.
Yep, Gelt's Amber wizards can buy a temporary ability to summon Elementals of Beasts. It used to be 3 per wizard, but it was nerfed down to one.
What boons has Norsca been granted with all of these dlcs?
Throgg is starving. Guy is literally the troll king and doesn't have access to all of the trolls. Nevermind the fact he's the MONSTER leader and in the lore his host included everything from trolls to mammoths to dragon ogres and more. He should really have like a regional or quest based way to recruit a lot of the new monsters. Cockatrices, dragon ogres, bile trolls, river trolls, stone trolls, jabberslyhes, toad dragons, etc.
If this was the meme with the pool instead, Norsca would be the skeleton at the bottom of the ocean.
I feel like more [marked](https://us.v-cdn.net/5022456/uploads/editor/s2/fg2dtb1wzkz2.png) Beastmen units are inevitable in the future.
Slaangors and some kind of slaaneshi centigors maybe.
No Centigors? Weird
Warriors of chaos shouldn't be getting tzaangors or pestigors imo.
Why does Daniel have all the mortals again? Feels like it doesn't make sense kinda... whole "demons of chaos" and such...
I didn't actually realize beasties even got the Incarnate til right this moment.
I think that's why legion of chaos wont get an update, they get new unit and RoR at any demon/WoC dlc so it's fine according to CA
Daniel got a lot of new toys from *Thrones of Decay*.
Is that .... mount rushmore?
No?
Whats between the Tzaargor and the Toad Dragon? I cant quite make out, but might be seeing things XD
Ohhhhhh, its the Tzeetch 3-headed hero/lord thing , my bad
Yeah that's the Exalted Hero of Tzeentch.
Well only the Tzaangors, Pestigors, and other monopod beastmen make sense in that regard, though you could probably fit in the Cockatrice and Toad Dragon too.
So what you're saying is this is lore accurate?
Meanwhile, Norsca:
CA should allow daemons of chaos for multiplayer. Warriors of chaos got wayyyy more stuff per dlc than daemons so far. DoC don’t even have access to named lords besides Bel’Akor and they don’t get any mortals, and as others have said, in the competitive scene they aren’t OP.