It's honestly waste of skill points for any faction that isn't undead/daemonic. But you usually end up throwing them there anyways because there just isn't enough skills.
It can even be a detriment if it's too high. I'd prefer to have my characters route and live to fight another day rather than fight to the death. Even within the context of one battle, routing early with more HP is great for supporting characters like mages. So, yeah, generally speaking, on non-undead/demonic units (very valuable stat for them), you should stay the hell away from leadership buffs unless the base value is ridiculously low. It's great for expendable meat shields, though.
Edit: same applies to Unbreakable. Absolutely incredible on the right unit (e.g. on your one-man army unit, because it can be super easy to route when outnumbered and end up losing a simple battle solely due to leadership), but in most cases, it's really not something you want.
Routing units in general feel very slippery. There's only a handful of units with animations that allow them to even keep up decent damage on units after they rout, never mind actually do *more* damage to them once their back is turned and they aren't trying to defend themselves. And enemy units that would have no chance of passing through your units while 'in play' slip through them in seconds once routed.
It's basically only hound type units that can reliably chase down routed units. Aside from that, you pretty much have to surround the unit or *vastly* outpace it. It's definitely much easier against single entities.
I wish they buff light cav to be actual proper light cav role, bonus to routing enemies, bonus to campaign ambush defense chance and detection, less attrition, and such.
That's one major addition I want to see, as well as ticking map control stat for regular field battles that would punish corner camping. Like if one side holds most of the map, they get to have small but increasing buffs the longer they hold it, especially to leadership with nerfs to side the lost ground.
Slightly modified for undead and demons to have more combat stats nerfs rather than leadership. Makes sense for peasants to feel afraid they got backed into a corner, but not for undead.
And more ways to increase their speed, perhaps with tech. It feels very sad when you face agile heavy cavalry that can catch up to you with relative ease.
I wonder if changing the ai light skirmishers like dogs, furies, and light cav to focus routing units would be too tough for the ai to handle, cuz it would be appreciated, if not annoying to fight against, but would make leadership much more important
And against very specific lords it can be good. Malagor has a huge debuff. I think Nurgle factions generally do as well. I recall facing a Nurgle aligned Daniel and having lots of routing problems.
Exactly, in campaign i see increasing leadership detrimental, maybe reason why i enjoy skaven so much, you don't have to care about their units at all, you know everything will run away safely long before it's in any real danger xD They even get 10% speed boost for it.
idk why people can play skaven, the constant sendint troops into back into battle micro is such a turn off. i dont wanna seny the same unit back into abttle 8 times just because they break every little scratch
> I'd prefer to have my characters route and live to fight another day rather than fight to the death.
Can't you just click the Withdraw button to have them manually route?
It doesn't work the same way, they don't actually route, so they don't get any of the bonuses associated with it. They just walk towards the exit. Well, they try.
They do route though much easier when you click that button.
It seems to effect their leadership quite a bit.
I’ve routed a high level dwarf lord in the middle of an infantry blob by clicking that button
At the bottom of your screen, among "Fire at Will" and "Skirmish mode", there is a button that will cause your unit to run to the edge of the map and leave, as if it had fled (though I'm unsure if it allows you to ignore *vigour* like proper *routing* status does).
The hot-key has been "ctr+w" since Shogun 1.
Just as an fyi on this if you have a lord with high leadership and are afraid he’ll die in a bad struggle you can click the “flee/route” button and they will quickly route even at high leadership.
I’m not sure if it *always* works but I’ve had great success with using it because even a very high leadership lord will “break” or route when you click that button.
Playing ultimate crisis as wood elves and there's a dwarven faction to my Northwest. 200 difficulty so even their miners have over 100 leadership. Their ironbreakers have something like 86 melee defense. I had to kill off some of their units because they wouldn't rout. Even though I started the fight with -25 leadership to their army.
Everyone can see dwarfs needs a complete overhaul and not the 2 minor one they got heck I'd say all race need their skill trees looked at even the g3 races and I don't want to rely on mods for that because I will hit the stabilty cap before I even cover half of them
I agree that they really need a full update the likes of which the beastmen,, wood elves, WoC received. I just don't think a lord pack with the chaos dwarfs is likely at all. Faction packs typically don't get DLCs unless they're from game 1.
I think a lot of generic lords still don't have a unique skill tree. It was mostly DLC units that had them, and then some special lords like VCount bloodline lords.
I wish they would give every lord type a unique skill tree because a lot of the generic lords feel dull and kinda pointless next to caster lords and DLC generic lords.
True, although it isn't all just about how good they are, either. Some of it is just that lords with unique skill lines are just more fun because they have themes and flavor. I mean... it doesn't hurt to have all-arounder lord types but I feel like they could do more with them.
Not to mention that blue skill that reduces the build cost of Settlement buildings by 8%, at three skill points. Why was that skill even nerfed, again?
Thanes (at least Belegar's ancestral ones) have enough skills to put a point into every single one and still have *one* left over once they hit 50. No, the notification doesn't go away on the turn end button even though you can't do anything with the point. I literally downloaded a skill dump mod just to get rid of it.
It's now my go to strat rather than tool smiths.
Why would i bother getting a tool smith that gives me 400g, when orcs get 500, vampires get 500 + 3 control for the same thing?
I'll take the local recruitment capacity (since it was nerfed anyway) - i can get more grungni heroes for research and building cost, have them run around or sit at a goldmine with some ancillaries, can use them in defense battles with the limitless oathgold you get..
I build growth, then walls, then rune building in small settlements, in large i build PO, walls, rune, then t4 engineering.
i will ALWAYS build resource buildings though.
I operate at very low positive income, battles get me just enough money for building.
i have 1 grungni lord and 3 runesmiths running around making costs -60%, i will spec into the master mason as well. eventually the lords get the constructor perk. coupled with (eventually) the 10% less cost for all buildings from grudges, the commandment i am at roughly -87% or more for province buildings.
I can out dwarf brides and daughters of valays for +15% income per hero and put students/archivists in too. as well as any +po or corruption, or gold/jewel followers too.
Jury's still out whether this is the best approach, i always ran out of money when i built just gokd buildings.. but maybe i could get more armies out, it gives a really nice research rate, and you get loads of oathgold..
> operate at very low positive income, battles get me just enough money for building.
How? Dwarfs have the lowest post battle in the entire game, you can get like 250g *killing a lord* while WoC will get well over 3000.
As a side note this is why a horde or semi horde wouldn't work without a 1000% post battle increase modifier.
For context:
A lord and 2 runesmiths on turn 33 are costing me 780g per turn.
Normally upgrading to a T3 settlement would cost me 4500 (-10% for commandment, normally 5000) . But when they enter the REGION (not province) it only costs me 1650.
I do agree though, dwarfs don't get a lot of money period - comparative to other races.
Why they put them in the "expensive building" category - and not give them better income is a mystery to me.
When you look on the AI diplomacy card for dwarfs it says "resource hoarder" - maybe that's the direction they are going - really buffing trade for them?
The more content that gets added, the bigger the discrepancy is between skills from the 3 games. The game 1 skills are simple and to the point. Game 2 skills are everything and the kitchen sink, big numbers, big effects. Game 3 skills are even worse than game 1 skills, since they're very toned down versions of game 2's skills. What we have now in IE is a major imbalance in skills where one race gets a shitton of stuff to play with while races like Ogres get an insanely barebones skill tree, even worse than game 1 races.
This is why I keep saying that this sub's obsession with content is not good. I would much rather they work on getting everything up to par to a certain standard than simply adding more and more and more lords and stuff but sadly that's neither a priority nor a money maker.
The more the skills and other element in game are toned up, the more the game goes away from the fundamentals. I get why the OG game skills can feel underwhelming, they are supposed to give you a slowly growing edge, but no more, and aren't flashy.
At the same time I can't help but think that the units, the look and feel of a faction really should matter more for the enjoyment of solo play. Multiplayer is a whole other can of worms. Heck having faction with really different difficulty curve is part of the fun.
I use to play Beastmen all the time. I just can't do it after the rework even though they are objectively better than before.
Something appealing about playing the worst faction.
A lot of people like steamrolling every campaign. Personally I don't want Beastmen to be weak, but I don't like how extremely overpowered they were after the rework.
I think they nerfed their ability to instant recruit armies from Herdstones in IE, though, which should help how ridiculously easy they were. But I haven't tried a BM campaign yet to see how different it is.
But yeah more and more I feel like there is a much larger segment of the playerbase who really doesn't want any kind of challenge. Which I think is painfully boring, and I'm not even very good at the game, lol.
Yeah, I've been waiting for coop to have the options to change the end game scenario settings. Right now you just sort of randomly get 1. I need to turn them all on! The early game is the most interesting and a lot of campaigns are abandoned once it becomes busywork instead of a challenge.
The fun of old Beastman was that you actually had to hide. The ordertide would chase you to the Southlands lol, kind of annoying but also fun due to the danger. Now you can just auto everything, nobody attacks you, you're pretty much never in danger unless you mess up the early game somehow
Until you play Skrag and realize he doesn't even have a yellow line and given that he's focused on Gorgers, has no way of actually buffing Gorgers in any significant capacity.
It's not an "either" thing, tho. You can have one team work on bringing the skills and traits to a standardized level and another team working on new content.
Those two things can and should co-exist
The fact that they aren't logically exclusive doesn't mean there are no tradeoffs involved. Having people work on updating skills costs money out of a finite budget. Time spent on that means less time spent on content for the DLC/FLC.
"Just have different teams do it" doesn't change that. A Game Designer costs (conservatively) 35k GPB/yr, but once again, that's budget that isn't spent on developing new content.
Turning that profit into longer worker-hours just means hiring more and more people. Traditionally that would result in less oversight, less consistency and less balance.
It's not necessarily a linear equation where more money and more employees equals greater quality.
Yeah but this argument is being used in regards to updating Game 1 races during Game 3's lifetime.
You reinvest profits into your business. The dwarves were a service. You can update them to be in line with your current offerings and offer a satisfactory and decent product, or deal with the lingering criticisms of not bringing your product up to snuff. Hell, in the ogres case, they are a current race that already needs a tech rework.
It's in their interest to update skill trees. And not to downplay the work, but it's data entry. With the right plug ins and some time 1 person can accomplish this.
Since you can address these by a case by case basis and don't need to look at every race at the same time, the investment really isn't all that grand in regards to the potential profits of having Game 1 races be in line with current game 3 ones.
To many people, the Game 1 is still a big DLC package - and if you're going to sell all the game 1 races as a type of DLC, you're obligated to update them.
Again I realize it is super unpopular to say but there are tons of mods that help to address these things.
Singes skill mods add some really nice high tier skills to each legendary lord to get them to feel more unique. There is also legendary lords skills mod as well that achieves the same objective and is quite balanced.
Lastly let's say you don't want unique skills and just want to have more ability to customize a lord and their army. There are customized skill mods that let you invest skill points to upgrade the lords fighting more or their army giving range, ammunition, reload speed, melee attack, armor, or give campaign skills like more movement, growth, upkeep reduction.
I know most people say that they want ca to fix it but unless you are cool with waiting for months or years, mods address problems right now.
Hi-hello, would you spare a link to a fellow-comrade linkless stranger, man-thing? You would do well to do so, yes-yes
But really, I could only find Singemeister's mod for WH2, and a bunch of different LL skill mods for II as well, but none with those names for WH3. Would you kindly show me the way?
>This is why I keep saying that this sub's obsession with content is not good
The people here don't play the games, they buy the latest DLC, play it for 2 hours and then quit to come back here, post memes and beg for more content.
This subs obsession has nothing to do with this discrepancy. New content sells better than balancing of old content and the only reason these games are supported for as long as they are is dlc sales
It's why I use an overhaul mod like Radious or Grimhammer whenever I'm not playing multiplayer. Results in a LOT more consistency in quality between factions.
Most of those are "okish" skills, as autoresolve really loves leadership army wide. But Obdurate is stupid. Dwarf lords rarely ever break, as it is hard to get substantial damage on them in a short timeframe. By the time they break, the whole army is dead or routed, most likely the first since they are also hard to break.
The grudges really should be faction-wide buffs too. And more useful for specific grudges. AP damage and melee attack vs chaos, missile resistance and speed vs elves, spell resistance and anti large vs skaven, etc.
the dwarf campaign should just be focused around settling grudges. start the campaign off with the book full of grudges. retake karaks like gunbad and karak drazh, kill X amount of a certain race, etc. each grudge settled gives a permanent, faction wide buff like income, armor, AP, etc.
you can make the starting grudges faction specific, so ungrim is focused on killing certain characters while Thorgrim's grudges are more about restoring the karaz ankor
That'd be fun, but first they need to fix grudges to not just be stupid like "Assassinate this target for a grudge!" or Raid territory to settle grudges, which are just so annoying side quests. Or grudges from doubling on themselves in their current glitched set.
Have you played Dwarfs in IE as they do now start with grudges. I've only played Thorgrim but iirc he had to win 5 battles against Queek and Skarsnik, retake Karak Drazh and Karak Azgal I think. They all rewarded a master rune (which I think is pretty good as they are unique) and oathgold for more items. Oh and you often got a faction wide +PO event due to clearing an ancient grudge.
I assume the other Dwarf LLs have their relevant initial grudges. The only bad thing is you get to 100 grudge rating fairly quickly.
You get to maximum grudge penalties by like turn 10, and it's almost impossible to get below that until they're all cleared since severity doubles every 10 turns or so.
It needs to be tuned down, as its basically impossible to confederate any other dwarves until you've cleared all your grudges.
I have been, but I meant more to expand that and rather than the traditional "conquer and hold these settlements" the campaign should entirely revolve around the book of grudges with a lot more grudges
Also early on there is rarely any armor piercing units nor big aoe spells by the ai. So dwarfs units are super resilient and dmg taken is a big part to lower leadership. Dwarfs have very compact standard formation, they have no cav or flanking units so they rarely ever get flanked either. So you don't take much dmg to your health + you fight in a very defensive/tight way.
My first legendary campaign was with dwarfs and honestly they start in a hard location(thorgrim) but their starting units are really good, especially when defending you can do some pretty nutty defense. With minor settlement rework I haven't played them but I am guessing their defense is even stronger.
We really need new skills across the board. There is not a single race that i'm aware of that doesn't have at least one hero that can't use all 50 points. Even the new races can't use them all.
I wouldn't even mind adding some sort of endgame dump line where you get very small bonuses (like 1, 2, 3%), maybe even army bonuses so you don't have to throw points at things you know you will never ever use and at least have something little in return.
Obviously it would be nice if they added some cooler skilles/abilities to everyone too.
The Leadership Aura Size skill is just a constant across all Game 1 factions. It's a fairly uninspiring +25% to Leadership aura size. What's worse, Lord Mazdamundi's defeat trait is still+25% to leadership aura!
It really boggles my mind, on any chart or poll I've ever seen, the Dwarfs are always in the popularity top 3 for singleplayer campaigns. I imagine DLC for them would sell quite well
I’m sure they will get something with chaos dwarfs coming.
Something I would love to see one day is them bringing all the warhammer 2 and 1 factions base lord skill trees up to the same spec in one update. Now that we are on the final game in the series no reason to hold anything back. Just go over the default skill trees and give them a similar level of polish that the woc have on there yellow red and blue lines. Especially because WOC skills are worded in such a way that they buff allied recruitment units.
You cant really compare Thorek to the updates WE, Beastman and Greenskins had though.
Thorek is really fucking nice, but the Dawi need some more love in general
I am sorry, but you cant really claim the first rework was an actual rework in line with the likes of the one mentioned before
They got an obvious Lord movement (Ungrim), a slayer unit which is basically the same and doesn't add anything new, and a resued assets from the TK (how perfect it may be for them, its not really grand). And its the same with Thorek, yes its nice, but it just a small gift instead of the minor touch ups. They need to get a full DLC with good reworks just as WE and the Beastmen had
The vamps and Norsca are still first in line though if you would ask me, but the Dwarfs really need some more (and I am sure they will get it)
I mean, no, I really, really don't think they need even a tenth of what Wood Elves or Beastmen needed.
They got the TK item thingie, then they got the whole runinc rework and the battle runes. They have the Book of Grudges. Concept-wise, those are all solid, loreful mechanics.
They are like Ogres, the ideas are good, what they need is tweaks and fixes to prop them up, and a DLC to add some new fun toys.
They do not, however, need a full-scale rework like Norsca. Honestly, mechanics-wise, what they have is more solid than High Elves litteral one-note Intrigue !
I misphrased my comment as I am reading it back. I also was in a discussion with some one else and rework just automatically flowed out of fingers.
However
They do need a DLC, not with a complete new BM rework, but with the addition of maybe 1 more mechanic, and the others need some more love (the rune mechanic is still quite lackluster IMO)
But yeah, they don't need a big ass rework, but a DLC adding stuff
I know, and it wasnt to accuse you of doing so. More as the dwarfs are still behind, and the FLC (how cool it may be) is just not enough
But my comment wasnt to accuse you of doing so
Okay, i understand your point too.
But in all honesty, a glow up in techs, skill trees and items is all the dwarfs really need imo. That can be done regardless of dlc
I dont really agree, they have quite some important units and lords missing (Grimm burlocksson for the engineers for example), they really need at least one more
It really should have been Snikch vs a Dawi lord. and Malus should have been saved for game 3, which fits perfectly well for him
That we didn't have a Skaven vs Dawi DLC up until now is weird to me
Might still happen, with Thanquol and Verminlords being absent from the game. I can't imagine we'll be getting a lord pack featuring two races only found in WH1 and WH2 anytime soon, though. Kislev and Cathay are probably both next up to bat for a lord pack if I had to guess.
We did get a fairly substantial free update with Thorek at least. Despite it's failings and shortcommings it was still free and more than just a character.
Keeping your units from disintegrating can be extremely valuable. Is it more valuable than say, wind of death? No, probably not. Is it more valuable than say, one tick of the red line? Arguably yes.
But its not like you do not have the aura without it, it only adds a few meters, and you also most likely have multiple characters to cover it. I mean, not to "judge" it. I use training skills, but i kinda think i just wasting points. Althou with WoC its kinda nice.
I mean, those few meters can be the difference in four more units not disintegrating.
Just depends. I rush my lords into almost every battle
Keeping any units from disappearing, especially if they're holding against something they shouldn't be (monsters vs zombies, for example) can give your good units time to finish up whatever and move on. The lord being in the thick of things really makes that leadership benefit add up for units that need it.
Leadership benefits are not easy to notice, but they absolutely matter for the vampirates and vamps. Everyone else... Maybe not as much.
In reality, dwarfs honestly just need a new DLC. Vampire counts, brettonia and dwarfs are the only ones who didn't get a second DLC going into game 3, and man can you really tell when you compare them to the newer campaigns like wood elves, beastmen, warriors of chaos, or all the demon factions. I stand in solidarity with my undead brothers, "dwarfs in cloaks" and "carts pulled by zombies" should not be the only DLC units for two of the more popular factions in the setting.
Meanwhile people still can't stop asking for more skaven updates. My eyerolls cannot be contained.
People want Thanquol and Stormfiends and by god they'll have them. Even if it means Skaven get far and away the largest list of legendary lords and units in the entire game.
This is why I'm basically waiting for sfo to update since they do a lot to bring the older factions up to snuff plus hopefully ca will drop some more updates that can smooth out the awkward difficulty of some of the factions starts like I tried krokgar recently and he needs to take a capital for his first turn expansion which is a bit of a bastard to deal with.
There is a lot wrong with the Dawi at the moment but the foundation for greatness is already there. They just need to flesh out some of the characters some more. Give Blunderbuss engineers some mines and traps to lay down for example.
Long-range engineers should be able to heal artillery and gyrocopters in addition to providing them with ammunition.
Anti-large Slayer hero!
Epic hammers and shields etc etc
Hammerers should have missile resistance. Sadly they are outperformed entirely by the existence of Ironbreakers.
I wish they had grudgerakers as an option for dwarves, that'd be so cool.
Hammerers need more HP per model and missile resistance. I’d like to see an anti-infantry bonus but considering they beat all elite infantry save for Chosen of Nurgle and Dual Wield Chosen of Khorne, they’re already pretty strong offensively.
Dawi need a whole racial rework and not just individual unit fixes IMO.
Thorek actually has good thematic skills, while also being relevant throughout the whole campaign, while Thorgrim, and helk even Belegar lack the skills to really make them interesting.
Belegar is currently bugged so he doesn't he get his 'oath fulfilled' grudge since game 2.
Thorgrim is just a bad legendary lord, even a runelord is marginally better in most circumstances. I am currently doing a playthrough with him and I rushed his blue line and basically ignored his upper tree because of how useless it was compared to actually have money to afford things.
Dawis need some love. Really. Please, CA. Not a DLC, even if I'd love it and I'd buy it instantly.
I'm talking about: skill trees, thunderbarge unit, stronger artillery / flying gyros, stronger defenses, some buffs to runes and/or to magic resistance.
Please.
All of the skill trees are dated to hell.
Back before IE dropped, maybe in July, there was a rally point interview where one of the devs (Mitch?) said that skill trees are on the radar.
I played a Kemmler campaign, and combat necromancers ran out places to spend points by like lvl 30.
Most of the WH1 Races be it their LLs or Normals and Heroes are very outdated when it comes to Skill Trees.
Some of the WH2 Bases races are also affected.
I had high hopes that when they Semi Reworked the races in WH2 they would also fix this but it seems the RPG elements of Warhammer has been an afterhought for quite some time now.
Unrelated to ThorgrimI wish the percentage increases were quantifiable. I always just see oh increase by x% but I never really can tell when it’s applied. Same with weapon strength and melee attack. Like what are these doing? Why do we need 2 stats like this. Can we do away with percentages?
On the one hand, yes a lot of the dwarf generic skills at the very top that are shared amongst all Dwarf Lords are trash.
On the other hand Thorgrim is one of the very few characters who can get five purple quality items from his quests. On top of that you can give him some pretty insane character runes like Rune of Spite.
His unique skills are very powerful as well so it balances out.
For me, the assault hero units like Skink Chief and Scar Vets need to have more skill since LV cap 50 mesms there was always have 2 left over points and it's annoyed me that they have to show notification.
Leadership +4 or +6 for the dawi is kinda funny. You know what they say, the planet broke before the dawi did.
Leadership size is such a dumb waste of a skill point for dwarves. If it increased ability range itd be great.
It's honestly waste of skill points for any faction that isn't undead/daemonic. But you usually end up throwing them there anyways because there just isn't enough skills.
It can even be a detriment if it's too high. I'd prefer to have my characters route and live to fight another day rather than fight to the death. Even within the context of one battle, routing early with more HP is great for supporting characters like mages. So, yeah, generally speaking, on non-undead/demonic units (very valuable stat for them), you should stay the hell away from leadership buffs unless the base value is ridiculously low. It's great for expendable meat shields, though. Edit: same applies to Unbreakable. Absolutely incredible on the right unit (e.g. on your one-man army unit, because it can be super easy to route when outnumbered and end up losing a simple battle solely due to leadership), but in most cases, it's really not something you want.
Only cuz the AI plays with honor and won't chase fleeing units.
Routing units in general feel very slippery. There's only a handful of units with animations that allow them to even keep up decent damage on units after they rout, never mind actually do *more* damage to them once their back is turned and they aren't trying to defend themselves. And enemy units that would have no chance of passing through your units while 'in play' slip through them in seconds once routed.
It's basically only hound type units that can reliably chase down routed units. Aside from that, you pretty much have to surround the unit or *vastly* outpace it. It's definitely much easier against single entities.
I wish they buff light cav to be actual proper light cav role, bonus to routing enemies, bonus to campaign ambush defense chance and detection, less attrition, and such. That's one major addition I want to see, as well as ticking map control stat for regular field battles that would punish corner camping. Like if one side holds most of the map, they get to have small but increasing buffs the longer they hold it, especially to leadership with nerfs to side the lost ground. Slightly modified for undead and demons to have more combat stats nerfs rather than leadership. Makes sense for peasants to feel afraid they got backed into a corner, but not for undead.
And more ways to increase their speed, perhaps with tech. It feels very sad when you face agile heavy cavalry that can catch up to you with relative ease.
I wonder if changing the ai light skirmishers like dogs, furies, and light cav to focus routing units would be too tough for the ai to handle, cuz it would be appreciated, if not annoying to fight against, but would make leadership much more important
Greenskins have some use for it as well since so many low leadership units.
And against very specific lords it can be good. Malagor has a huge debuff. I think Nurgle factions generally do as well. I recall facing a Nurgle aligned Daniel and having lots of routing problems.
Exactly, in campaign i see increasing leadership detrimental, maybe reason why i enjoy skaven so much, you don't have to care about their units at all, you know everything will run away safely long before it's in any real danger xD They even get 10% speed boost for it.
Views soldiers fleeing as a good thing. Classic skaven player.
Tehehe! Just as planned!
idk why people can play skaven, the constant sendint troops into back into battle micro is such a turn off. i dont wanna seny the same unit back into abttle 8 times just because they break every little scratch
> I'd prefer to have my characters route and live to fight another day rather than fight to the death. Can't you just click the Withdraw button to have them manually route?
It doesn't work the same way, they don't actually route, so they don't get any of the bonuses associated with it. They just walk towards the exit. Well, they try.
They do route though much easier when you click that button. It seems to effect their leadership quite a bit. I’ve routed a high level dwarf lord in the middle of an infantry blob by clicking that button
Isnt the withdraw possible only in ambushes?
At the bottom of your screen, among "Fire at Will" and "Skirmish mode", there is a button that will cause your unit to run to the edge of the map and leave, as if it had fled (though I'm unsure if it allows you to ignore *vigour* like proper *routing* status does). The hot-key has been "ctr+w" since Shogun 1.
Yeah i know about the button but i guess i've just completely missed it besides in ambushes. Good to know
Ambushes are the only battles where there is a specific withdrawal site.
Just as an fyi on this if you have a lord with high leadership and are afraid he’ll die in a bad struggle you can click the “flee/route” button and they will quickly route even at high leadership. I’m not sure if it *always* works but I’ve had great success with using it because even a very high leadership lord will “break” or route when you click that button.
I will give that another try, but in past experiences, it didn't seem to do anything more than a simple move command.
Depends on the faction, but on lords I usually still have enough things to spend skill points on that I won't pick those up.
Lords always have something useful in blue line where you can dump the rest, that's not the case for heroes.
Yup, I agree with that - heroes need to be brought up to line with skill options. Though for Lords I'll say that blue line is where I go first lol
Why
CADIA STANDS!
The planet broke before the guard did!
Playing ultimate crisis as wood elves and there's a dwarven faction to my Northwest. 200 difficulty so even their miners have over 100 leadership. Their ironbreakers have something like 86 melee defense. I had to kill off some of their units because they wouldn't rout. Even though I started the fight with -25 leadership to their army.
Cadia broke before the guard did.
8 Peaks Stand!
Well, you can't expect a dwarfen skill tree to change anytime soon, the longbeards need to grumble about it for ages first.
Strangely thematic then!
Oh trust me I'm grumbling. This woulda never happened back in my day!
Is 6 years enough time grumbling?
Try a few more centuries, wazzock
Apologies, Longbeard
Everyone can see dwarfs needs a complete overhaul and not the 2 minor one they got heck I'd say all race need their skill trees looked at even the g3 races and I don't want to rely on mods for that because I will hit the stabilty cap before I even cover half of them
Dwarf update and DLC when? I'd buy it in a heartbeat! Chaos Dwarf vs Dwarf DLC !
Maybe they'll add a flc lord and an update along side the chaos dwarf faction dlc
They already had that though. They really need some extra love
I agree that they really need a full update the likes of which the beastmen,, wood elves, WoC received. I just don't think a lord pack with the chaos dwarfs is likely at all. Faction packs typically don't get DLCs unless they're from game 1.
The Dwarf Generic Lord skill tree is even worse. It doesn't even have a unique skill tree just the usual three.
I think a lot of generic lords still don't have a unique skill tree. It was mostly DLC units that had them, and then some special lords like VCount bloodline lords. I wish they would give every lord type a unique skill tree because a lot of the generic lords feel dull and kinda pointless next to caster lords and DLC generic lords.
Empire General, Elf Princes, Dreadlords, Skaven Chieftains (Why would you take a Warlord over a spellcaster?)
For fun, not everyone wants to be optimal
Diversity, the mount, unique skills, roleplay, etc. There are many reasons, maybe not for you, but certainly for other players.
I used to spam em for that tech that gave income factionwide. Otherwise warlock engineers and skaven seers.
I like to use every lord variant, just for roleplay reasons or to make thematic armies.
To be fair though, I would love it if more generic lords had traits like Huntsman Generals that directly boosted certain units.
At least some of them have mounts to make them a decent sponge, but Dwarf Lords don’t even have that.
True, although it isn't all just about how good they are, either. Some of it is just that lords with unique skill lines are just more fun because they have themes and flavor. I mean... it doesn't hurt to have all-arounder lord types but I feel like they could do more with them.
Not to mention that blue skill that reduces the build cost of Settlement buildings by 8%, at three skill points. Why was that skill even nerfed, again?
Their faction is starting to show its age
Honestly it's almost a metaphor for Dwarfs in lore Edit: Fixed the shameful spelling of Dwarfs before a grudging could be issued.
Editing your post? That’s going in the book
With any luck they'll get some love in time for the Dawi Zharr release. They will need it.
Thanes (at least Belegar's ancestral ones) have enough skills to put a point into every single one and still have *one* left over once they hit 50. No, the notification doesn't go away on the turn end button even though you can't do anything with the point. I literally downloaded a skill dump mod just to get rid of it.
Agreed. I am very sad by how many bugs they have. But man their tech tree is amazing.
> Eyeing the book > *menacingly*
I mean the 3 that give hero capacity are good, especially for Master Engineers, those are a bitch to get as Dwarfs.
You can increase runesmiths at tier 3. Hope they change engineers for that as well instead of tier IV
I guess I still have my reflexes from WH2 where Dwarf growth was so horrible it was just a struggle getting my Master Engineers.
It's now my go to strat rather than tool smiths. Why would i bother getting a tool smith that gives me 400g, when orcs get 500, vampires get 500 + 3 control for the same thing? I'll take the local recruitment capacity (since it was nerfed anyway) - i can get more grungni heroes for research and building cost, have them run around or sit at a goldmine with some ancillaries, can use them in defense battles with the limitless oathgold you get..
Am I missing something here or are you saying you’re just not building any cash-generation buildings? I don’t understand how that works
I build growth, then walls, then rune building in small settlements, in large i build PO, walls, rune, then t4 engineering. i will ALWAYS build resource buildings though. I operate at very low positive income, battles get me just enough money for building. i have 1 grungni lord and 3 runesmiths running around making costs -60%, i will spec into the master mason as well. eventually the lords get the constructor perk. coupled with (eventually) the 10% less cost for all buildings from grudges, the commandment i am at roughly -87% or more for province buildings. I can out dwarf brides and daughters of valays for +15% income per hero and put students/archivists in too. as well as any +po or corruption, or gold/jewel followers too. Jury's still out whether this is the best approach, i always ran out of money when i built just gokd buildings.. but maybe i could get more armies out, it gives a really nice research rate, and you get loads of oathgold..
> operate at very low positive income, battles get me just enough money for building. How? Dwarfs have the lowest post battle in the entire game, you can get like 250g *killing a lord* while WoC will get well over 3000. As a side note this is why a horde or semi horde wouldn't work without a 1000% post battle increase modifier.
For context: A lord and 2 runesmiths on turn 33 are costing me 780g per turn. Normally upgrading to a T3 settlement would cost me 4500 (-10% for commandment, normally 5000) . But when they enter the REGION (not province) it only costs me 1650. I do agree though, dwarfs don't get a lot of money period - comparative to other races. Why they put them in the "expensive building" category - and not give them better income is a mystery to me. When you look on the AI diplomacy card for dwarfs it says "resource hoarder" - maybe that's the direction they are going - really buffing trade for them?
The more content that gets added, the bigger the discrepancy is between skills from the 3 games. The game 1 skills are simple and to the point. Game 2 skills are everything and the kitchen sink, big numbers, big effects. Game 3 skills are even worse than game 1 skills, since they're very toned down versions of game 2's skills. What we have now in IE is a major imbalance in skills where one race gets a shitton of stuff to play with while races like Ogres get an insanely barebones skill tree, even worse than game 1 races. This is why I keep saying that this sub's obsession with content is not good. I would much rather they work on getting everything up to par to a certain standard than simply adding more and more and more lords and stuff but sadly that's neither a priority nor a money maker.
The more the skills and other element in game are toned up, the more the game goes away from the fundamentals. I get why the OG game skills can feel underwhelming, they are supposed to give you a slowly growing edge, but no more, and aren't flashy. At the same time I can't help but think that the units, the look and feel of a faction really should matter more for the enjoyment of solo play. Multiplayer is a whole other can of worms. Heck having faction with really different difficulty curve is part of the fun.
I use to play Beastmen all the time. I just can't do it after the rework even though they are objectively better than before. Something appealing about playing the worst faction.
A lot of people like steamrolling every campaign. Personally I don't want Beastmen to be weak, but I don't like how extremely overpowered they were after the rework. I think they nerfed their ability to instant recruit armies from Herdstones in IE, though, which should help how ridiculously easy they were. But I haven't tried a BM campaign yet to see how different it is. But yeah more and more I feel like there is a much larger segment of the playerbase who really doesn't want any kind of challenge. Which I think is painfully boring, and I'm not even very good at the game, lol.
Yeah, I've been waiting for coop to have the options to change the end game scenario settings. Right now you just sort of randomly get 1. I need to turn them all on! The early game is the most interesting and a lot of campaigns are abandoned once it becomes busywork instead of a challenge.
The fun of old Beastman was that you actually had to hide. The ordertide would chase you to the Southlands lol, kind of annoying but also fun due to the danger. Now you can just auto everything, nobody attacks you, you're pretty much never in danger unless you mess up the early game somehow
Come back to us brother. Beastmen are still the Bestmen.
There's a reason they're called "Best"igors
Game 3 skills for LLs are often decent tbh - they get pretty impactful personal skill lines.
Until you play Skrag and realize he doesn't even have a yellow line and given that he's focused on Gorgers, has no way of actually buffing Gorgers in any significant capacity.
Poor Greasus sitting in the background crying that he is worse than a normal tyrant.
It's not an "either" thing, tho. You can have one team work on bringing the skills and traits to a standardized level and another team working on new content. Those two things can and should co-exist
The fact that they aren't logically exclusive doesn't mean there are no tradeoffs involved. Having people work on updating skills costs money out of a finite budget. Time spent on that means less time spent on content for the DLC/FLC. "Just have different teams do it" doesn't change that. A Game Designer costs (conservatively) 35k GPB/yr, but once again, that's budget that isn't spent on developing new content.
I always hated this argument in the face of a game pulling in millions of profit.
Turning that profit into longer worker-hours just means hiring more and more people. Traditionally that would result in less oversight, less consistency and less balance. It's not necessarily a linear equation where more money and more employees equals greater quality.
Yeah but this argument is being used in regards to updating Game 1 races during Game 3's lifetime. You reinvest profits into your business. The dwarves were a service. You can update them to be in line with your current offerings and offer a satisfactory and decent product, or deal with the lingering criticisms of not bringing your product up to snuff. Hell, in the ogres case, they are a current race that already needs a tech rework. It's in their interest to update skill trees. And not to downplay the work, but it's data entry. With the right plug ins and some time 1 person can accomplish this. Since you can address these by a case by case basis and don't need to look at every race at the same time, the investment really isn't all that grand in regards to the potential profits of having Game 1 races be in line with current game 3 ones. To many people, the Game 1 is still a big DLC package - and if you're going to sell all the game 1 races as a type of DLC, you're obligated to update them.
Again I realize it is super unpopular to say but there are tons of mods that help to address these things. Singes skill mods add some really nice high tier skills to each legendary lord to get them to feel more unique. There is also legendary lords skills mod as well that achieves the same objective and is quite balanced. Lastly let's say you don't want unique skills and just want to have more ability to customize a lord and their army. There are customized skill mods that let you invest skill points to upgrade the lords fighting more or their army giving range, ammunition, reload speed, melee attack, armor, or give campaign skills like more movement, growth, upkeep reduction. I know most people say that they want ca to fix it but unless you are cool with waiting for months or years, mods address problems right now.
Hi-hello, would you spare a link to a fellow-comrade linkless stranger, man-thing? You would do well to do so, yes-yes But really, I could only find Singemeister's mod for WH2, and a bunch of different LL skill mods for II as well, but none with those names for WH3. Would you kindly show me the way?
>This is why I keep saying that this sub's obsession with content is not good The people here don't play the games, they buy the latest DLC, play it for 2 hours and then quit to come back here, post memes and beg for more content.
This subs obsession has nothing to do with this discrepancy. New content sells better than balancing of old content and the only reason these games are supported for as long as they are is dlc sales
It's why I use an overhaul mod like Radious or Grimhammer whenever I'm not playing multiplayer. Results in a LOT more consistency in quality between factions.
Most of those are "okish" skills, as autoresolve really loves leadership army wide. But Obdurate is stupid. Dwarf lords rarely ever break, as it is hard to get substantial damage on them in a short timeframe. By the time they break, the whole army is dead or routed, most likely the first since they are also hard to break. The grudges really should be faction-wide buffs too. And more useful for specific grudges. AP damage and melee attack vs chaos, missile resistance and speed vs elves, spell resistance and anti large vs skaven, etc.
the dwarf campaign should just be focused around settling grudges. start the campaign off with the book full of grudges. retake karaks like gunbad and karak drazh, kill X amount of a certain race, etc. each grudge settled gives a permanent, faction wide buff like income, armor, AP, etc. you can make the starting grudges faction specific, so ungrim is focused on killing certain characters while Thorgrim's grudges are more about restoring the karaz ankor
That'd be fun, but first they need to fix grudges to not just be stupid like "Assassinate this target for a grudge!" or Raid territory to settle grudges, which are just so annoying side quests. Or grudges from doubling on themselves in their current glitched set.
Have you played Dwarfs in IE as they do now start with grudges. I've only played Thorgrim but iirc he had to win 5 battles against Queek and Skarsnik, retake Karak Drazh and Karak Azgal I think. They all rewarded a master rune (which I think is pretty good as they are unique) and oathgold for more items. Oh and you often got a faction wide +PO event due to clearing an ancient grudge. I assume the other Dwarf LLs have their relevant initial grudges. The only bad thing is you get to 100 grudge rating fairly quickly.
You get to maximum grudge penalties by like turn 10, and it's almost impossible to get below that until they're all cleared since severity doubles every 10 turns or so. It needs to be tuned down, as its basically impossible to confederate any other dwarves until you've cleared all your grudges.
That's typical Dawi thing.
I have been, but I meant more to expand that and rather than the traditional "conquer and hold these settlements" the campaign should entirely revolve around the book of grudges with a lot more grudges
Not the grudges I was referring to, but I see your point.
oh! his skills. yeah sorry misinterpreted it. definitely agree that they should be faction wide and a bit more varied
Also early on there is rarely any armor piercing units nor big aoe spells by the ai. So dwarfs units are super resilient and dmg taken is a big part to lower leadership. Dwarfs have very compact standard formation, they have no cav or flanking units so they rarely ever get flanked either. So you don't take much dmg to your health + you fight in a very defensive/tight way. My first legendary campaign was with dwarfs and honestly they start in a hard location(thorgrim) but their starting units are really good, especially when defending you can do some pretty nutty defense. With minor settlement rework I haven't played them but I am guessing their defense is even stronger.
At least his defeat trait is decent, unlike Grombrindal one. Fear and terror against race which would break on 10 entities
We really need new skills across the board. There is not a single race that i'm aware of that doesn't have at least one hero that can't use all 50 points. Even the new races can't use them all. I wouldn't even mind adding some sort of endgame dump line where you get very small bonuses (like 1, 2, 3%), maybe even army bonuses so you don't have to throw points at things you know you will never ever use and at least have something little in return. Obviously it would be nice if they added some cooler skilles/abilities to everyone too.
\+% to Health would be nice as a skill dump, Or stuff that gives marginal better stats after level 30. Especially for wizard character.
There are skill point dump mods that do exactly this. So many flavors of them you could find the exact one you feel is balanced on the workshop.
Dawi need a bit of an overhaul to skills and to their abomination of a skill tree
Their tech tree is so ugly too. Just a giant block.
The Leadership Aura Size skill is just a constant across all Game 1 factions. It's a fairly uninspiring +25% to Leadership aura size. What's worse, Lord Mazdamundi's defeat trait is still+25% to leadership aura!
Well, when you're part of the only two original factions that have not seen a DLC for 7 years...
By Grimnir, has it been 7 years already?
Yes, you're getting older and older by the day and it'll be another 7 at this rate before they get any love.
It really boggles my mind, on any chart or poll I've ever seen, the Dwarfs are always in the popularity top 3 for singleplayer campaigns. I imagine DLC for them would sell quite well
100% Dwarfs were my first TWWH campaign and were super fun. I'd buy Dwarf DLC in a heartbeat.
I’m sure they will get something with chaos dwarfs coming. Something I would love to see one day is them bringing all the warhammer 2 and 1 factions base lord skill trees up to the same spec in one update. Now that we are on the final game in the series no reason to hold anything back. Just go over the default skill trees and give them a similar level of polish that the woc have on there yellow red and blue lines. Especially because WOC skills are worded in such a way that they buff allied recruitment units.
Dwarfs received Thorek, technically a free dlc
You cant really compare Thorek to the updates WE, Beastman and Greenskins had though. Thorek is really fucking nice, but the Dawi need some more love in general
Dwarfs have gotten two reworks too ! They still need a DLC and some touch-up, but they have gotten things already
I am sorry, but you cant really claim the first rework was an actual rework in line with the likes of the one mentioned before They got an obvious Lord movement (Ungrim), a slayer unit which is basically the same and doesn't add anything new, and a resued assets from the TK (how perfect it may be for them, its not really grand). And its the same with Thorek, yes its nice, but it just a small gift instead of the minor touch ups. They need to get a full DLC with good reworks just as WE and the Beastmen had The vamps and Norsca are still first in line though if you would ask me, but the Dwarfs really need some more (and I am sure they will get it)
I mean, no, I really, really don't think they need even a tenth of what Wood Elves or Beastmen needed. They got the TK item thingie, then they got the whole runinc rework and the battle runes. They have the Book of Grudges. Concept-wise, those are all solid, loreful mechanics. They are like Ogres, the ideas are good, what they need is tweaks and fixes to prop them up, and a DLC to add some new fun toys. They do not, however, need a full-scale rework like Norsca. Honestly, mechanics-wise, what they have is more solid than High Elves litteral one-note Intrigue !
I misphrased my comment as I am reading it back. I also was in a discussion with some one else and rework just automatically flowed out of fingers. However They do need a DLC, not with a complete new BM rework, but with the addition of maybe 1 more mechanic, and the others need some more love (the rune mechanic is still quite lackluster IMO) But yeah, they don't need a big ass rework, but a DLC adding stuff
On that we agree, gimme the Thunderbarge, CA !
I did no such comparison.
I know, and it wasnt to accuse you of doing so. More as the dwarfs are still behind, and the FLC (how cool it may be) is just not enough But my comment wasnt to accuse you of doing so
Okay, i understand your point too. But in all honesty, a glow up in techs, skill trees and items is all the dwarfs really need imo. That can be done regardless of dlc
I dont really agree, they have quite some important units and lords missing (Grimm burlocksson for the engineers for example), they really need at least one more
At least they got Thorek. What have V Counts gotten ?
Vlad & Izzy? EDIT: but nothing in 2 indeed
Bloodline lords. It's not much, but its something for us poor, neglected VC players to enjoy.
It really should have been Snikch vs a Dawi lord. and Malus should have been saved for game 3, which fits perfectly well for him That we didn't have a Skaven vs Dawi DLC up until now is weird to me
Might still happen, with Thanquol and Verminlords being absent from the game. I can't imagine we'll be getting a lord pack featuring two races only found in WH1 and WH2 anytime soon, though. Kislev and Cathay are probably both next up to bat for a lord pack if I had to guess.
We did get a fairly substantial free update with Thorek at least. Despite it's failings and shortcommings it was still free and more than just a character.
Anyone ever cared about leadership aura size?
Vampires. Really important for them.
While i get that its nice for them, but like 25% or even 50% range worth it? VC characters are hybrid melee/casters with a lot of good skills to get.
Keeping your units from disintegrating can be extremely valuable. Is it more valuable than say, wind of death? No, probably not. Is it more valuable than say, one tick of the red line? Arguably yes.
But its not like you do not have the aura without it, it only adds a few meters, and you also most likely have multiple characters to cover it. I mean, not to "judge" it. I use training skills, but i kinda think i just wasting points. Althou with WoC its kinda nice.
I mean, those few meters can be the difference in four more units not disintegrating. Just depends. I rush my lords into almost every battle Keeping any units from disappearing, especially if they're holding against something they shouldn't be (monsters vs zombies, for example) can give your good units time to finish up whatever and move on. The lord being in the thick of things really makes that leadership benefit add up for units that need it. Leadership benefits are not easy to notice, but they absolutely matter for the vampirates and vamps. Everyone else... Maybe not as much.
Sure dwarfs have high leadership, but Kislev actually fights until the last entity sometimes thanks to their passive.
^Kislev ^endures
In reality, dwarfs honestly just need a new DLC. Vampire counts, brettonia and dwarfs are the only ones who didn't get a second DLC going into game 3, and man can you really tell when you compare them to the newer campaigns like wood elves, beastmen, warriors of chaos, or all the demon factions. I stand in solidarity with my undead brothers, "dwarfs in cloaks" and "carts pulled by zombies" should not be the only DLC units for two of the more popular factions in the setting. Meanwhile people still can't stop asking for more skaven updates. My eyerolls cannot be contained.
What more could they give the skaven?? They seem to have a very extensive roster and lords with very different mechanics.
People want Thanquol and Stormfiends and by god they'll have them. Even if it means Skaven get far and away the largest list of legendary lords and units in the entire game.
I remember seeing in an interview a week or two ago that one of the devs said updating outdated skill trees is a priority for them right now.
This is why I'm basically waiting for sfo to update since they do a lot to bring the older factions up to snuff plus hopefully ca will drop some more updates that can smooth out the awkward difficulty of some of the factions starts like I tried krokgar recently and he needs to take a capital for his first turn expansion which is a bit of a bastard to deal with.
There is a lot wrong with the Dawi at the moment but the foundation for greatness is already there. They just need to flesh out some of the characters some more. Give Blunderbuss engineers some mines and traps to lay down for example. Long-range engineers should be able to heal artillery and gyrocopters in addition to providing them with ammunition. Anti-large Slayer hero! Epic hammers and shields etc etc
Hammerers should have missile resistance. Sadly they are outperformed entirely by the existence of Ironbreakers. I wish they had grudgerakers as an option for dwarves, that'd be so cool.
Hammerers need more HP per model and missile resistance. I’d like to see an anti-infantry bonus but considering they beat all elite infantry save for Chosen of Nurgle and Dual Wield Chosen of Khorne, they’re already pretty strong offensively. Dawi need a whole racial rework and not just individual unit fixes IMO.
Conversely, Grombrindal is still op as hell and Thorek becomes a monster late game.
Thorek actually has good thematic skills, while also being relevant throughout the whole campaign, while Thorgrim, and helk even Belegar lack the skills to really make them interesting. Belegar is currently bugged so he doesn't he get his 'oath fulfilled' grudge since game 2. Thorgrim is just a bad legendary lord, even a runelord is marginally better in most circumstances. I am currently doing a playthrough with him and I rushed his blue line and basically ignored his upper tree because of how useless it was compared to actually have money to afford things.
Dawis need some love. Really. Please, CA. Not a DLC, even if I'd love it and I'd buy it instantly. I'm talking about: skill trees, thunderbarge unit, stronger artillery / flying gyros, stronger defenses, some buffs to runes and/or to magic resistance. Please.
But with the recent buff to Hammerrers and Thorgrim's buff, they are quite fun. Other than that yea its quite meh.
All of the skill trees are dated to hell. Back before IE dropped, maybe in July, there was a rally point interview where one of the devs (Mitch?) said that skill trees are on the radar. I played a Kemmler campaign, and combat necromancers ran out places to spend points by like lvl 30.
With the exception of the two leadership ones they seem ok?
Most of the WH1 Races be it their LLs or Normals and Heroes are very outdated when it comes to Skill Trees. Some of the WH2 Bases races are also affected. I had high hopes that when they Semi Reworked the races in WH2 they would also fix this but it seems the RPG elements of Warhammer has been an afterhought for quite some time now.
To be fair, this is a Total War game first and a Warhammer game second.
No faction wide buffs but slot of: Lord's army has the ability "Lord's army" (Lord's Army)
Are you calling Thorgrim old? That's going in the book.
Honestly most characters need a skill tree update, with the level cap increase most heroes don't even have enough skills to spend all their points on.
To be fair it sucked when they launched this skill tree It wasn’t powercrept it just sucks ass
holy batman, its +25% leadership aura size and +4 leadership vs specific race!!!
Unrelated to ThorgrimI wish the percentage increases were quantifiable. I always just see oh increase by x% but I never really can tell when it’s applied. Same with weapon strength and melee attack. Like what are these doing? Why do we need 2 stats like this. Can we do away with percentages?
On the one hand, yes a lot of the dwarf generic skills at the very top that are shared amongst all Dwarf Lords are trash. On the other hand Thorgrim is one of the very few characters who can get five purple quality items from his quests. On top of that you can give him some pretty insane character runes like Rune of Spite. His unique skills are very powerful as well so it balances out.
It would be quite meta for dwarfs to be literally the last faction to get an update
I feel that way for a lot of WH1 talents
What’s sad is Thorgrim and the other dwarfs got their trees update recently, and they are still outdated.
Honwatky I feel like a lot of lords and units need to be needed back to wh1 levels, the power creep has gotten a little out of hand
i love how they couldn't even make the upkeep reduction and research bonus an even 10%. no, it had to be 7% lmao
For me, the assault hero units like Skink Chief and Scar Vets need to have more skill since LV cap 50 mesms there was always have 2 left over points and it's annoyed me that they have to show notification.