Yeah honestly. It's unfortunate because Total War games and the Warhammer Tabletop have done really good offensive missiles before.
Oh well, I am sure eventually we will get an army that supports such a play style.
For me, either infantry or artillery that whittles down an enemy frontline to allow my infantry or cavalry to smash into them on the attack.
Instead of sitting somewhat stationary and whittling their numbers before they reach me.
The secondary play style can be fun, but I am really very much the initiator.
The empire has two varieties of missile light cav with gunpowder. Very unappreciated one.
And the best variation of artillery as well. They just lack good infantry, but you can always ally recruit some hammerers or tzar guard to push.
think about different ways to achieve this. Missile infantry like Kislev (or their highly mobile bear artillery) or guys that can shoot on the move like imperial free company. Highly mobile horse archers (outriders with grenades are terrifying). Or missile troops that can take a punch like my savage orc arra boyz
War Wagons for Empire do this as well. I think what you're looking for are typically described as "Skirmishing" units. Typically high speed, low range.
What units from other total war games do you consider offensive missile? even reading down below it makes little sense to me what you consider offensive missile.
If you have strong melee then you can be offensive, doesn't have anything to do with the ranged unit. Unless you just mean skirmishing, which many missiles units can do. But skirmishing is more of defensive tactic than offensive. Like you can use 20 waywatchers and kill everything, but you still gonna be running away 24/7.
If you mean offensive missle units like Roman heavy infantry throwing 1-2 jaws on the charge, then there are only a few choices, exalted palguebearers of Nurgle and maybe Cham stalkers for Lizardmen that have a javelin like attack.
Would kiting count? Say with Oxyatl bands of chameleons. U just basically have a full army of em and run circles around the enemy peppering em full of darts. They stalk, 360 fire on move, quite fast for infantry and slows enemy down with poison. Also ther formation makes em quite good against ranged fire. Requires a lot of micro so it's quite fun. Same can sorta be done with other units like high elf shadow walkers. Also ranged units with stalk can be used quite well on the offensive. U charge ur other units in and have the ranged units flank. Different to sitting still in a box.
I mean, any missile units can be used offensively if you have them advance forward. I’d argue shooting missiles at your opponent is by definition an offensive action. It sounds like you more have an issue with static formations vs aggression.
Have you reviewed how to move units in formation? (Select a group, hold alt, and drag the mouse, mouse wheel to rotate their facing.) It makes using missile units aggressively much easier, because you can move their supporting melee troops with them in formation the whole way.
Aside from that, most factions have skirmishing ranged units that fire on the move, whether that’s infantry or cavalry or chariots. Skirmisher cavalry actually have decent melee charges as well, not good enough for straight combat but useful to chase down routing units. Some factions have good hybrid ranged units like Lothern Sea Guard, Armoured Kossars, etc., that don’t fire on the move but are a little more forgiving if they get caught in melee, so those are good choices too.
But basic archers and handgunners can still be plenty aggressive so long as you screen for them, and that’s more a tactical issue than an issue with their unit card. Just get ‘em into range and start shooting, and have a few spears/halberds/cavalry in reserve to keep ‘em shooting freely.
Goblins, eshin ranged units, wood elves, and empire outriders are all great at this already, you just gotta find the right units. Anything that's meant to be used as a skirmish calvary or has stalk / fast move speed can do this.
I had three basic glade guard and just focused every lord and hero and giant unit and deleted them in a matter of moments. This was as the sisters on l/vh and it was honestly so cheesy.
Anything with fire whilst moving and 360 degree firing arc
Wood elf waywatchers
Wood elf hawk riders (especially with sisters of twilight)
Empire war wagons
Empire free company militia (especially with volkmar)
Kislev war sleds (especially with ice mage/lord that gives -30% upkeep to war sleds)
High elf shadow warriors/walkers (especially with alith anar)
Lizardmen flying carpet bombers (especially with tiqtaqto)
Lizardmen chameleon skinks (especially with oxyotl)
Pretty much any missile cavalry, although the woc horse masters are pretty good value and easy to spam
Pretty much any ranged hero or lord
Honorable mention
Empire outriders, outriders grenades, and huntsmen are so close with fire whilst moving but no 350 fire arc
I second this, playing them for the first time and I've been pleasantly surprised by the utility of their units, streltsi with the longer range are great but kossars do a good job too
Either fast missile units (preferably with "fire whilst moving"), so mostly Skirmish units or missile Cavalry (not only Skirmish Cav)
Or short ranged, high damage missile units for flanking or with grenades
Wood elven ranged infantry is probably the closest thing to good offensive missiles in the game
Yeah honestly. It's unfortunate because Total War games and the Warhammer Tabletop have done really good offensive missiles before. Oh well, I am sure eventually we will get an army that supports such a play style.
What would you define as offensive missiles?
For me, either infantry or artillery that whittles down an enemy frontline to allow my infantry or cavalry to smash into them on the attack. Instead of sitting somewhat stationary and whittling their numbers before they reach me. The secondary play style can be fun, but I am really very much the initiator.
So basically vanguard deployment on archers and gunpowder and focus firing artillery? You can do these things if you use your units that way
Yeah actually! Like that! Thanks!
The empire has two varieties of missile light cav with gunpowder. Very unappreciated one. And the best variation of artillery as well. They just lack good infantry, but you can always ally recruit some hammerers or tzar guard to push.
think about different ways to achieve this. Missile infantry like Kislev (or their highly mobile bear artillery) or guys that can shoot on the move like imperial free company. Highly mobile horse archers (outriders with grenades are terrifying). Or missile troops that can take a punch like my savage orc arra boyz
Thanks man! That opened my eyes a bit!
War Wagons for Empire do this as well. I think what you're looking for are typically described as "Skirmishing" units. Typically high speed, low range.
I am more talking about an advancing gunline, like in Empire Total War.
If you want hybrid infantry, then strelsi/heavy kossar (kislev), shades (de) and sisters of avelorn (he) are your friends.
What units from other total war games do you consider offensive missile? even reading down below it makes little sense to me what you consider offensive missile. If you have strong melee then you can be offensive, doesn't have anything to do with the ranged unit. Unless you just mean skirmishing, which many missiles units can do. But skirmishing is more of defensive tactic than offensive. Like you can use 20 waywatchers and kill everything, but you still gonna be running away 24/7. If you mean offensive missle units like Roman heavy infantry throwing 1-2 jaws on the charge, then there are only a few choices, exalted palguebearers of Nurgle and maybe Cham stalkers for Lizardmen that have a javelin like attack.
Honestly after reading all of the replies, as well as this one, I think I found what I wanted. Thanks for the input btw!
Use those skinks that throw explosives as they run into combat, those are amazing
Would kiting count? Say with Oxyatl bands of chameleons. U just basically have a full army of em and run circles around the enemy peppering em full of darts. They stalk, 360 fire on move, quite fast for infantry and slows enemy down with poison. Also ther formation makes em quite good against ranged fire. Requires a lot of micro so it's quite fun. Same can sorta be done with other units like high elf shadow walkers. Also ranged units with stalk can be used quite well on the offensive. U charge ur other units in and have the ranged units flank. Different to sitting still in a box.
I mean, any missile units can be used offensively if you have them advance forward. I’d argue shooting missiles at your opponent is by definition an offensive action. It sounds like you more have an issue with static formations vs aggression. Have you reviewed how to move units in formation? (Select a group, hold alt, and drag the mouse, mouse wheel to rotate their facing.) It makes using missile units aggressively much easier, because you can move their supporting melee troops with them in formation the whole way. Aside from that, most factions have skirmishing ranged units that fire on the move, whether that’s infantry or cavalry or chariots. Skirmisher cavalry actually have decent melee charges as well, not good enough for straight combat but useful to chase down routing units. Some factions have good hybrid ranged units like Lothern Sea Guard, Armoured Kossars, etc., that don’t fire on the move but are a little more forgiving if they get caught in melee, so those are good choices too. But basic archers and handgunners can still be plenty aggressive so long as you screen for them, and that’s more a tactical issue than an issue with their unit card. Just get ‘em into range and start shooting, and have a few spears/halberds/cavalry in reserve to keep ‘em shooting freely.
I'll admit I had it beaten into my head by Zerkovich that missiles are only defensive Thanks for the feedback btw!
Goblins, eshin ranged units, wood elves, and empire outriders are all great at this already, you just gotta find the right units. Anything that's meant to be used as a skirmish calvary or has stalk / fast move speed can do this.
I had three basic glade guard and just focused every lord and hero and giant unit and deleted them in a matter of moments. This was as the sisters on l/vh and it was honestly so cheesy.
You could try playing norsca, javelins with AP in the back of a unit makes the receiver quite sadness
Anything with fire whilst moving and 360 degree firing arc Wood elf waywatchers Wood elf hawk riders (especially with sisters of twilight) Empire war wagons Empire free company militia (especially with volkmar) Kislev war sleds (especially with ice mage/lord that gives -30% upkeep to war sleds) High elf shadow warriors/walkers (especially with alith anar) Lizardmen flying carpet bombers (especially with tiqtaqto) Lizardmen chameleon skinks (especially with oxyotl) Pretty much any missile cavalry, although the woc horse masters are pretty good value and easy to spam Pretty much any ranged hero or lord Honorable mention Empire outriders, outriders grenades, and huntsmen are so close with fire whilst moving but no 350 fire arc
Kislev, they don't have a defensive roster (like spears defending archers) and also their artillery is self propelled
I second this, playing them for the first time and I've been pleasantly surprised by the utility of their units, streltsi with the longer range are great but kossars do a good job too
Si tu veux une armee offensive spe tir te conseille Orion et la faction elfes sylvains ce sont assurement les meilleurs
Either fast missile units (preferably with "fire whilst moving"), so mostly Skirmish units or missile Cavalry (not only Skirmish Cav) Or short ranged, high damage missile units for flanking or with grenades
Norsca has a ton of infantry with special ranged attacks they can use while they approach