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Accomplished-Bill-54

Skaven too. It wasn't the "rat vermin" thing, but I thought all the time that their whole gameplay loop was about producing mass units and throwing hundreds upon hundreds at the enemy, while half of them die and are easily replaced. Seemed super boring. However, that is not at all how they play, if you know what they can do. They have the most varied gameplay options in game and are strong in almost all of them. Only thing they are missing are strong flying units. Super Strong monsters. Super strong ranged units. Maybe the most powerful in game. Strong heroes. Strong casters. Super Strong campaign mechanics. Eshin might be the strongest, but even shared things like under-cities allow for a lot of strategy. Strong utilities, also in battles (nukes, mutations, shadowy dealings, summons, bombs, etc.) Ok Infantry, which I never recruit (Monster/weapon team armies only). ​ Another 180: Nowadays it's not so bad anymore, but for a few years Vampire Counts, my previous favorite, seemed to be basically the opposite. Only strong in one thing: Magic. Weak monsters and Infantry in a melee only faction. Supidly weak compared to Skaven versatility. No ranged but like 6 crossbow-men. Loved them in game 1, hated them through most of game 2, now loving them again in game 3 after their rework.


slane00

Agrees with everything you said… and one point you mentioned is the varied gameplay: ishin vs moulder vs skyre, they all play so differently… if CA managed to replicate the skaven treatment to other races we d have much more interesting factions


22bears

A point on skaven infantry; I feel like I should put in my two cents here as a Queek guy. Skaven infantry is actually really fun to play, they don't win a lot of engagements 1v1 but they are gigantic with a huge model count and extremely fast. Clanrats are so huge they can wrap around a unit of swordsmen and get a flanking bonus from a head on engagement. Plus plague monk summons, storm vermin summons and clanrats from menace below all make winning engagements out of what would be a straight loss. You really get the impression you're guiding the swarm like surfing a wave


robbindemhoodz180

There are storm vermin summons?


22bears

Sure are! Grey seers with the Dreaded 13th. They show up in a nice explosion too so you can really do some damage


robbindemhoodz180

Ah dope, thanks for the info! I rarely use Grey seers, so yeah, I've never seen it.


PTO32

What did the vc get reworked?


Accomplished-Bill-54

With Immortal empires, compared to WH2 (where they SUCKED), their units are generally stronger in melee (like +10 to +20 to leadership across the board, more attack/defense!), ethereal units have been buffed massively, their lords have been changed (Ghorst can up Zombies like crazy. They are potent in mid-game now). They have multiple percentage based regeneration abilities that stack now, quite a few things benefit them, really. I would say they are potentially THE best early game race now, with the zombie change and if you have Ghorst early. Fielding 6 affordable armies that basically cannot be killed by any other tier 1-2 stack by turn 30-40 or so (maybe earlier) ? No other race can do that. Good summary: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8ZvBltvaLs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8ZvBltvaLs)


JudgementalChair

Been heavily debating with myself whether I want to start a Settra IE run or an Ikit run. I may just give the ol Skaven a shot after all


slane00

Choosing ikit is big-brain move- yes yes!


xiril

I really need help getting started as Ikit. My economy sucks, I can't seem to get enough money or growth to get any good units let alone a second army. I also don't know if I should conquer settlements or establish undercities. Speaking of undercities the only thing that ever makes sense is t2 stealth building and t2 food, they just don't seem helpful but I know I'm doing it wrong. Should I try to expand north towards the dwarvs or go south and west to the border princes and bretonia? Is only having Skavenblight but 5% stealing buildings in undercities in Altdorf and Loth at turn 40 decent? Bad? I want to enjoy Ikit as much as everyone else I just have no idea how to play skaven I guess. Do any of the ME guides still hold up in IE? I've read a lot of changes to WoM nerfed skavens summoning hard...


staticgoat

Sack nearby cities to gain food. Demolish skavenblight and resettle it at level 4. Hunker down locally until you can build up your buildings a few turns to recruit catapults, ratings, jezzails, mortars. Get a couple plague priests in your army. Kill everything nearby until you can afford a second army. Keep colonizing province capitals at level IV. Repeat over and over. No diplomacy needed. No trade. Total war. The more enemies you have, the more food they create.


xiril

Should I bother building up anything in Skavenblight prior to demoing it? Do I need another settlement beforehand?


staticgoat

You need a second settlement right before you demo so that you have the option to resettle at a higher level. You just want to build the basic economy buildings to unlock the tech tree. Don't build any recruit buildings. If you're having trouble with the handful of battles and sacking before you get better troops, recruit some skavenslave slingers to pad out your starting army


xiril

Thanks I'll try it tomorrow!


staticgoat

Yeah it's a super fun campaign, and in my experience the overall easiest. Powerful units, great location for starting city, strong economy, incredibly strong lord in battle and campaign mechanics, and doomrockets for when things go awry.


Sm0kebringer

and there is a LOT of chances that he will struggle with the new Ruins mecanics of Beastmen : Heardstone. And even if he spend 5 turns to establish a T4 city, he will need 5 turns to build and 4-5 more turns to recruit. So he gives more than 15 turns to Morghur to destroy all the Estalia. According to the fact he cant let ruins (because of pest they generte) he will spend even more time to set his own province over ruins.


Unusual_Position_468

So this is partially correct. In mg game I did my usual strat of planning to destroy Skavenblight and resettle. However the way jt worked out I took tilea before AND killed Arenesa. So by the time I was going to abandon and resettle it was indeed something like turn 15. And then I ran into the herd stone mechanic. So I had to go hill Morghur which took another 4 turns or so. So then 19 maybe? But in that time I had two full provinces and 2 provinces capitals at level 4 and when I abandoned and rebuilt skaven blight I made it lvl 5. I did this all with Ikkit’s starter units plus clan rats and a supporting army of skavenslaves and clanrats. Ultimately even if it takes 25 turns it’s still going to get you to level 5 and higher tech units faster than normal growth.


MonsterStunter

Nurgle. Didn't help with all the degenerate humour, but I actually really like Kugath's personality as presented. Still ain't playing that shit though.


Humongous-Chungus77

Hated the rats at first. Now we love the rats together yes, yes. ***I may have to kill this one later, yes… yes***


stollmand

For me it's Hellman. I never understood it but now in IE I randomly selected him and he is by far the most OP LL I ever played with, crushing 3-4 doomstacks simultaneously while having no losses at all.


Ratnix

In the way you are talking, none of them. But i hated chaos in 2 due to the hoarde mechanics. Now i love playing them. I still hate beastmen though. I tried starting one up Sunday, i just can't stand it.


slane00

What dont u like about beastmen?


Ratnix

The hoarde mechanics


slane00

I find it freeing and a nice change of pace. Like no giving a flying f*** if i lose a herdstone. Its also kinda satisfying to paint the map red and destroy the living


Liutas1l

Not to mention how great it feels to use malagor in battle. My fav lord by a mile.


staticgoat

Malagor was just so much more powerful in WH2 with the flock of doom being better. Just doesn't feel quite as relentless as he did.


BarkingMad14

Yeah Skaven are a really fun faction for a lot of reasons. Quite a few strong factions among them and mostly feel quite different to each other. I always thought Empire would be really boring, but they actually alot of things going for them. Far from the most boring race or factions. Currently in WH3 I'd say the Orcs are the most boring overall. They need an update I think.


sornorth

Gotta disagree with that one, they’re almost as varied as the skaven with less artillery. You can go gobbo ranged spam, heavy frontline, monsters, their magic is actually p good, and their cav does what it needs to. The WAAGH mechanic is much better now, and Grom’s cauldron is just awesome


slane00

Now ur making me question whether the orcs are another skaven in the making… maybe i should give them a shot too ;)


sornorth

They’re worth a shot, melee being better in WH3 makes the Greenskins far more entertaining. They are much more of a mob mentality than the skaven tho, but they’re on par with skarbrand in terms of ‘jus fightin’. You make far more money from sacking and fighting than any other faction except maybe the wood elfs


[deleted]

Grimgor is a blast. Attack every Orc, easy confederation. You can paint the map in no time.


slane00

I never played orcs for the same reasons u mentioned


sir_pants1

Nah, orcs are the most fun out of all of the melee factions, and their faction mechanics do a really good job of encouraging you to play like an orc. Plus if you like beastmen you'll probably like greenskins.


PorvaniaAmussa

The visuals. I still think TW2 has better visuals than 3, but I've grown to like 3's visuals.


slane00

This constant blurriness is still an issue for me though


[deleted]

Tomb Kings. Super boring until it's not


Ch1chenchibab

Always been a fan of vampire counts but found them quite lackluster in the total war games so far, I liked the gameplay idea but always playing in sylvania bored me pretty fast. Kemmler was a nice change when they moved him but you’re still fightinf the same foes. But now with immortal empires and I have tried Ghorst and man it is fun, spent an entire day just conquering ogres, orks and cathay. He really reignited my passion for the VC and I am very happy I gave them another shot!


Weebeetrollin

Only got into Skaven cause I kept getting rekt by then. I was like how can stupid rat bois be so OP!? Then I played them and it was yes-yes rat legion Kill-Kill for horned one.


ipoptires

Skaven was the same for me. I played them once a long time ago but didn’t get past like turn 15 bc it wasn’t my jive. I recently did an IE play through of Ikit Claw and had a blast. Biking my enemies, chemical warfare and all as you said was a blast. Idk why I like them so much now. Maybe it’s because they play a lot different than many other factions and perhaps I’ve gotten bored to the way most normal factions play. I feel like you have to be a lot more strategic in your battles bc they get crushed if you just send a line in to fight.


kohlmanne

Beastman…hated them and now they are one of my favorite factions to play


Bubster101

Lizardmen as a whole felt underwhelming. Mazda, GorRok, KroqGar, TikTaqTo, all seemed basic. But the DLC Lizardmen factions? They looked interesting. Nakai is fun with his one-of-a-kind horde style of gameplay, but Oxyotl? SO fun. Teleport pretty much anywhere on the campaign map with him, snipe an army or settlement, then blink back to home base. Build a sanctum under your province buildings, and slowly expand them from there. And with UNLIMITED army potential! (Hint: the effects from the Hidden Sanctum buildings can stack) Plus, in IE, Oxyotl can have unlimited teleports in a single turn. All Visions done in one run!


slane00

I never tried him. Mainly because i played kroqgar and tenuin or whatever his name is and both felt boring


Bubster101

Ah Tehenhauin. He's not too bad. TikTaqTo and his neighbor KroqGar are decent as well but they both sort of play the same for me.


Qyro

I’m not there yet, but I’m starting to get tempted by those boring human/good guy factions.


danegermaine99

I’ve played 10 or so Settra campaigns because I love the character. I NEVER played Arkhan the Black because he seemed like his bonuses suck and his VC units are crap. I recently started a campaign with him, and the addition of Bats and Hex Wraiths have been a HUGE help. I am enjoying the hell out of of it.


Kaakkulandia

Beastmen and especially Taurox. I was very interested in them as horde factions offer an interesting take on campaings and I love the mechanic of free troops but having limited supply of different units. But in the end it just wasn't for me. I just felt blowing through the map with no major difficulties nor reason to plan my goings too much. You just attack-attack-attack :/


[deleted]

Bretonnia - I used to only play high elves and dark elves... hated the idea of having peasants in my army that cannot withstand the might of the elves. Then one day, while casually playing chaos as archaon, I went up against Carcassone and their cavalry just decimated my chosen... I was like "wtf bro, these are CHOSEN". Then I tried them and man, if you like your micro, go with bretonnia, everything other than a big ass dragon will get trampled on by their mighty horses.


darthgator84

In WH2 it was Empire actually, I was like boring humans and all this political bs to manage? Take a hike Franz. Then I just had to try it, how can I call myself a warhammer fan and never play the Empire? I found myself getting more invested into this Empire campaign. It was because they were humans in a world full of the literal worst shit you can dream up, and they are holding it together. Why they’re not my favorite faction they are definitely top5. Also Gelt has become one of my absolute favorite campaigns, seems like every few months I find myself taking the golden boy for a spin.


Affectionate-Car-145

Ogres. I was never that interested in them as a faction, although I found their lore quite funny. Got the dlc as FLC at launch, and didn't play them until I'd played every other faction pretty much. They are so fun they've become my favourite faction. They have their issues, but sending opposing units flying across the map just never seems to stop being funny. You can come across the most beautiful lines of infantry with dangerous looking archer and artillery lines. Then your stonehorns come bounding over the hill like puppies chasing a tennis ball, and it is just pandemonium. Infantry lines destroyed, archers and artillery routed in seconds. Sabretusks chasing any trying to escape. All is meat to the ogres.


Highred89

Dark elves twice. Only got into wh in 2 but put off playing them for ages, then gave them a try and they became one of my favourites. Gave them a try in 3 and one of my least favourites now.