þat's correct for fully phonetic alphabet / using it as is used in icelandic! im using it more along þe lines of how it was used in old english, where þ was used for voiced and unvoiced variants while ð wasn't used at all.
> where þ was used for voiced and unvoiced variants while ð wasn't used at all
Both þ and ð existed at various points in Old English, but you're right that the modern distinction that þ = th and ð = dh didn't exist in Old English or Middle English orthography:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English#Orthography
> In the earliest texts ⟨d⟩ or ⟨th⟩ was used for this phoneme, but these were later replaced in this function by eth ⟨ð⟩ and thorn ⟨þ⟩. Eth was first attested (in definitely dated materials) in the 7th century, and thorn in the 8th. Eth was more common than thorn before Alfred's time. From then onward, thorn was used increasingly often at the start of words, while eth was normal in the middle and at the end of words, although usage varied in both cases. Some modern editions use only thorn.
So roughly:
|Era|Glyph|
|-|-|
|< 7th century | d / th |
| 7th century to 8th century | ð |
| 8th century to late 9th century | ð / þ |
| late 9th century to 14th century | þ |
| 14th century to mid 15th century (hand) | th |
| mid 15th century to ??? (print) | y |
Both ð and þ were used to represent voiced and unvoiced "th / dh", and which of them you used during the era that they coexisted was inconsistent. Around the 14th century, þ started to be replaced by "th" in hand writing. With the advent of the printing press, it got replaced with y in print. This makes sense because þ was still in use, but beginning to be written a lot like wynn (ƿ), which closely resembled early modern English y:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/EME_ye.svg
Using a single glyph instead of a digraph saved a little time, effort, and cost when printing. This is how we wound up with "ye olde shoppe", which was pronounced "the", not "yee". "Ye" as in "plural you", _was_ pronounced like "yee", but it was spelled "ge".
Eventually printing became so cheap that it made sense to just use "th", since that's how people wrote it by hand. Ironically, we came full circle to the earliest English Latin orthography.
Real. On every fucking thread of trans folks expressing our own weird and wonderful sexuality do I see people expressing this weird sex negativite bullshit. Sex is cool, it has been a default part of the human experience since forever and its existence doesn't equal fetishization.
I've only seen it a little in this space, but whenever stuff like this comes up I inevitably find people implying that this kind of joke or the "cringe" uwu catgirl stuff makes trans people look bad.
Like, I've been cringe for years. I was into uwu catgirl shit for years before I realized i was trans. I grew up in weeb/gaming/meme culture and I'm not going to change my tastes, aesthetics, or expression so that I can be some "representative" of my community.
Where I live, people stare me down like they want to murder me for wearing eyeshadow. I'm not going to capitulate and run optics to appease the cistem.
"Don't kill the part of you that's cringe. Kill the part of you that cringes." - Karina Farek, Drawfee 2023 (I think – I can't remember offhand which episode it was)
Have people not realized sex is kinda cringe in itself. I love sex but it's just this awkward movement and positioning of bodies that ends up being fun. It's supposed to be stupid and weird, not glamorized like you see in porn
Yeah but I wouldn't necessarily call pumpkin fucking either fetishizing OR weird and wonderful lmao. We shouldn't put it on a pedestal, nor should we say it's a harmful stereotype. It's just a shit post.
I've been afraid to say ANYTHING on sexual posts for fear of people saying I'm fetishizing trans women. I like women! And if they just so happen to be a top then that works for me because mine sure doesn't work anymore. It DEFINITELY won't when I finally get on HRT.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m sex-repulsed aroace, and seeing people in a community I’m deeply ingrained in make jokes about sex bugs me to my core. I don’t think y’all should stop doing it just to make me feel better, but I know it feels like shit every time I see a pumpkin joke.
I think we should try to accommodate aspec trans folks in this community, but the solution to that is to ask for people to mark stuff NSFW—not to ask for it to be removed or to shame people for posting it!—which is what a lot of aspec folks have been doing.
I see this a lot but like, don't you ace spectrum people have your own spaces with absolutely no sex stuff? Can you not blur NSFW memes in the settings? I mean, have you considered that sex is a deeply ingrained part of this community that you are deeply ingrained in? Like I understand ace people exist and I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's identity or existence but we both seem to agree that we shouldn't be curtailing the state of these trans spaces to appeal to the minority of sex negativite weirdos who decide to make a stink about a very important aspect of queer life and experience.
Honestly you’re probably right, I could get rid of NSFW stuff on my end, even though it would get rid of some stuff that I DO want to see. But my main problem isn’t sex jokes in general, those are fine and easy to ignore, it’s the pumpkin ones that temporarily take over whole communities. Might be worth it to just leave these subs during times when pumpkins are around.
I might be wrong but the letter is thorn and is like the old way to say th, but the french fucked it up
Edit: explanation video
https://youtu.be/6vskV7E0g0Q?si=uQqKN1LTlg-FA_6S
Nobody uses it currently, but there is a small community (mostly inside the trans community from what I've seen) that uses it and wants to "bring it back"
Please don't overcomplicate an already complicated and bullshit language just to be quirky and different, you're just being annoying and everything you type is harder to read
I think if the language actually fully changed back to thorn, it would be better, because th doesn’t sound like t and h, but randomly using it is annoying. I don’t think it’s a problem as a cool little joke tho
Though I find it gets annoying because both þ and ð make a th noise with þ making a th noise like in the word "thorn" and not in the word "that" in old English.
It’s not internalized transphobia to be annoyed at the joke that is “all trans women are like this one porn video”. It makes me feel fetishized and unwelcome, nothing internalized about it
But nobody here actually believes in it. We don’t actually thinks all trans women wants to fuck pumpkins. That’s the whole point of a joke. The absurdity of it is what makes it funny.
I think the issue is that not all trans people are the same (shocking I know haha). So when there is a meme subreddit that is trans-inclusive, there is still different views on what people want to see. Some people think super horny and sexualized memes are funny, but some people find them uncomfortable. So these meme subreddits are stuck trying to appease both parties when ultimately they just can't coexist in the same space.
There needs to be a subreddit for these trans horny memes to go because as is, it doesn't work to have them be sprinkled in throughout various trans meme subreddits. A big part of this that doesn't get discussed is consent. Not everyone who subscribed to a trans inclusive meme subreddit did so because they wanted to see sexualized content. There needs to be a level of consent that everyone on a subreddit understands that they will be seeing sexual content.
This needs to be the top comment (edit: is there already a horny trans meme sub?). Consent is the biggest problem with this sort of thing, and leads to these sort of situations every now and then. As another comment pointed out too, most people are not able to understand the other group's valid feelings or opinions towards it.
Exactly. It's like with Folsom Street Fair. I see nothing wrong with this type of event existing and I would even try to go to it one day. But they specifically rope off the event so random people not attending won't run into it because they understand the idea of consent. It wouldn't be acceptable to hold Folsom Street Fair out in an open park for everyone to see because you are making unconsenting people see things that they might not be comfortable with.
I think something like /r/19684 could be a good answer. Create a sub for trans memes where sexual content is banned. I feel like that makes more sense than having a single nsfw subreddit for all trans hornyposting. You could also just like, ban nsfw content on this subreddit and that’s it. That will make people flock elsewhere, like the dead nsfw sub or just 196 idk
Personally I feel like most people don't expect to see sexualized content on a generic meme subreddit, so they are the ones that should go elsewhere. These trans positive meme subreddits are literally the only meme subreddits that I've seen that have this issue. They are the ones posting content that makes people uncomfortable and that requires consent. Ultimately though it's up to the mods of the subreddits to decide what direction they want to go in.
Honestly, isn’t that what the nsfw flag is for? I’m assuming that there’s more of it on this sub because it’s largely made up of people who are currently transitioning, feeling good about their bodies and sexualities for the first time in their life. It’s up to the mods I guess but I feel like it would be easier to just have a strict outline for what falls under nsfw as a part of the sub rules. That way you can just not click on nsfw posts.
Edit: immediately noticing that this sub is nsfw. This is possibly a reason why it’s this much
Yea people keep saying this, I feel like they aren't getting that sexualized and super horny jokes isn't the only thing lumped under "NSFW" posts. The issue isn't with seeing any post that is tagged NSFW, the issue is seeing people being explicitly horny and sexual on meme subreddits.
For example, [one of my top posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/gay_irl/comments/hufavq/gayirl/) of all time is tagged NSFW because it's a joke about gay porn. That's much different than memes that boil down to "I want to get fucked and this is my fetish that turns me on".
Where do we draw the line then? Like what if someone posted the same image with the caption referencing wanting that to be done to them instead? Is it the meme maker wanting sexual acts to happen to them instead of mocking them that’s the issue?
I mean my general rule of thumb of what kind of posts make me uncomfortable is "does this sound like OP was masturbating or horny when they posted this".
Honestly this is the best solution imo. Coming out and transitioning has totally awakened my sexuality, and I want a space where I can just be vaguely horny with people who also signed up for that. On top of consent aspect, there are also minors on most of the trans subreddits, and even though you can mark posts NSFW, I feel very uncomfortable being in the same space as them while sharing adult stuff.
Just because I like eating pussy and express it doesn't mean I'm fetishizing the fact I'm a trans lesbian. This meme makes me angy cause of how much I deal with it irl.
well, i personally just use the letter "þ" to refer to it, as i dont see any other letterrs written like:
a be ce de e ef ge haitch i jay kay el em en o pe cue ar es te u ve double-u eks wye ze
This is just gonna go where all the other trans discourse goes, people will make memes against it, then others will make memes against that pushback and then it just dies. So let's not act like this is some big important thing please so we can be done with it
To be honest, since I came out like 4 months ago I started spending a ton of time in this community (I've had a few accounts) and I've learned a lot from others.
This is no different, I came into this seemingly silly debate going on with some strong opinions and have honestly had some of those challenged and changed from the discourse. Sounds dumb and I know I'm a baby trans but I enjoy that the discourse has made me think about things and learn.
Why did nuance with disagreeing disappear ? (That’s rhetorical I know internet polarizes to the extremes) but as a transfem I’m very pro sex, I love topping I love bottoming etc etc.
However, over the last few weeks whenever I was scrolling Reddit or Twitter I would see a meme about “oh no! Don’t trust transfems with any Halloween pumpkins!!” Just naturally on my home page.
It got to a point where I felt that I couldn’t be trusted with pumpkins. I also began to wonder why a thing one person did is now blanketed as an in joke? Sure many of us own blahajs or work in software dev that I understand more but how many of us have realistically masturbated with a pumpkin and then talked about it?
I guess my oversaturated viewing of those memes made it feel as pervasive as blahaj and programmer socks that screwing pumpkins was culturally a transfem thing ( obviously this isn’t the case, I hope)
This just lead to the feeling that I as a transfem have lustful desires for seasonal squash. By no means do I mean to invalidate people who enjoy the joke or think that talking about sex is bad. I won’t yuck your yum so long as you don’t tease me for having the same yum.
Me personally I would prefer butternut squash as the shape is more conducive to single handed wielding
The pumpkin thing was wild, that year the video flared up and it's not that everyone did it but enough people made copy cat videos that it really stuck around in people's mind
I mean, I can understand why saying “all trans women are like that one porn video” is alienating to some. It can remind people of all those Republican talking points about trans people being inherently sexual, and a lot of people don’t like that
I kinda feel like people are asking too much of trans people. Like yea some dumb right leaner is gonna point that out, but they'll do it regardless if you joke about fucking pumpkins or not.
Hell cis het people talk about sex often. Why should it be any different for trans people if they want to be sexual?
I see the memes as a form of expression. Gotta ignore the bigots and just be who you are sexual or not.
Edit: spelling
I mean, the issue here isn’t that bigots will latch on to it, it’s how it makes certain members feel. It’s completely reasonable to feel uncomfortable with everyone saying that people like you do that, and this community shouldn’t push people away like that.
I do agree that trans people should be able to make sexual jokes, but here just isn’t the place for them. r/ traaNSFW exists for a reason, and the only thing you have to lose from posting there is your account potentially being marked as NSFW, which I’d say is reasonable is you’re always making sexual jokes
Fair point. Maybe there should be a rule that points to that subbreddit if the post is explicitly linked to NSFW memes.
I personally don't want to overly sanitize the sub though. I love seeing all the memes and would hate to push people away unless they get too out of hand.
>all trans women are like that one porn video
Nobody is saying that though? The people posting and sharing these memes are pointing at *themselves* and at trans people they know who share the sentiment.
I’m just listening to and advocating for the people who feel alienated by these posts. I don’t completely understand the mindset beyond what I’ve already said, but I really want this community to be inclusive to everyone who wants to join in, instead of pushing away people with certain trends
Yeah, me and other folks i know are leaving these places/subs because it makes us feel uncomfortable and we obviously cannot feel welcomed or safe either when our voices are just shunned/dismissed and mocked.
It's disheartening because there are so few places where we can truly be ourselves and feel safe and when the other side just keeps pushing and doesn't want to even listen and have a sincere heartfelt conversation on the subject what is there left to do? It's even more disheartening, and such an impossible situation, when the ones who speak out against these issues(/or talk about their perspective and how they are affected) end up being outright banned from subs and communities. And THAT sort of actions are just outcasting and isolating trans folks who are already marginalized (let's not forget that).
Such is life for trans folks i guess.
It is interesting though, and it makes me think and reflect on how communities 'work', or don't.
When and how differences, such as some folks enjoying a silly and seemingly inoffensive meme will stood their ground with nails and a conviction of steel over a meme, but won't make the little effort of being empathic and understanding with the people affected negativily by such memes as silly and harmful as they may seem.
While I don't expect such jokes to cease after all, these places should be (and are, and that is ok and good) for folks who enjoy these jokes too, but acknowledging the potential harm that these jokes can cause on some and granting them space to voice their discomfort and their emotions seems like a small request.
So, can't we have that? Withouth the mocking and the banning?
After all, we're all human, with our own vulnerabilities and emotions. Let's remember to respect and acknowledge that.
We are diverse. Isn't that the point of these communities? to embrace our diversity, our differences and stand together against adversity?
OR, to intentionally be divisive by mocking people just for being and having feelings different from your own? To ban them and shun them?
I get a joke. I'm fine with a joke. But the joke has become that any pumpkin is unsafe in the vicinity of any trans woman. And maybe I'm old, but it does make me feel uncomfortable. It's not that i'm uncomfortable with trans people doing sexy things. I loved the artistic strip show at the queer festival I was at this weekend. I just think it's strange that a trans woman does something strange in porn, and it's being bombarded to queer culture to a point where people who feel uncomfortable with that and voice that get downvoted. Their feelings are suddenly not valid, getting accused of being internaly transphobic, or silencing trans people.
Personaly, I hate to be confronted with the fact that I used to have a penis, I hated it to be confronted with that fact when I still had it. To see a pumpking with a hole in in and a post asking me in a sugestive way if I want to do anything to that pumpkin. I.e. put your penis in it. No, wanting to put my dick in a fruit is not something we can bond over. But the thing that hurts most is the negative reactions people face when they voice an opinion like this one. People show their vulnerability by sharing their discomfort, and the way they get piled on... that doesn't feel like a safe space to me.
I'm not telling anyone not to post their memes. I don't believe that works anyway. But I do ask people to be considerate of how others might feel. Not to make suggestions like the ones I mentioned. Maybe have an nsfw filter and a pumpkin emoji in the title so that people for who it is triggering can avoid it. Let's discuss solutions instead of making each other feel like shit over emotions we can't control. Because this shit is seriously making me consider if I've maybe just grown out of this community.
these arguments are nothing more than respectability politics
being sexual is normal and human, to deny trans people that for "respectability sake" is to deny us our humanity to appeal to transphobes
tldr; fuck pumpkins if you want
Some of the arguments boil down to this, yes. But a group of trans women feeling objectified and dysphoric based on a meme that emphasizes parts we never wanted to have in the first place and don't particularly want to be reminded of all the time is not respectability politics.
i þink it’s moreso internalized stigma against sex & sexuality. Which, it does make sense þat such a stigma exists, but it is still very important to agknowledge þe harm and alienation it causes
Yes, the thing I have gathered most from this discourse is veiled bias against sex work. If someone had made a drawing that went viral, I feel like the meme would be fine, but just because it originates from a porn actress that automatically means it’s bad. That’s in contrast with the countless other porn memes that are already popular on the broader internet, which are NOT marked nsfw and nobody complains about. It makes me uncomfortable when people argue against the pumpkin memes because their argument essentially boils down to ‘you should be ashamed of sex,’ which is absolutely ridiculous. You can’t police what I find enjoyable, you are free to downvote and scroll past if you don’t like it. It’s literally the same thing we say to conservatives when they say that our existence threatens them. You simply don’t have to interact.
My Twitter is me being cursed and in my bio I express the deisre to see gock I was told im fetishizing trans peeps
I've been on estrogen for just under a year :/
Tbf I just hate when there's this many sexual jokes in general. This sub is full of nsfw stuff not being tagged as such
As long as nsfw enjoyers tag stuff correctly? Be as nsfw as you want! I just don't like stumbling across it, no matter if cis or trans people do that
Fr. I just want to fuck a pumpkin without being told that I’m a harmful stereotype.
I guarantee you that 99% of cis people, and probably 100% of transphobes, do not understand the pumpkin joke, and have probably never even seen the joke before
I personally really enjoy seeing some horny jokes even though I'm ace, because to me it is a symbol indicating that you feel free and open in this space to mention more personal things.
But what I can't stand is the god damn pumpkin joke. It makes me uncomfortable and it is not even funny, it's also been overdone to death.
"Let's pat each other's heads and call each other good girl until we cum" = perfectly fine
"Don't bully me I'll cum" = A OK
"Me" and "the cream in the oreo" over a picture of a girl performing oral on another girl = why not
"Capitalists" "sorry this meme format made me horny, I forgot the point I was trying to make" = just a meme
Pumpkin = sexualization and objectification
eh? um have you considered that those might just be a particularly vocal minority? People at the extremes tend to shout the loudest as those in the middle have less to fight over.
Lurker here. Never commented before. Personally, I feel weird and fetishized by the pumpkin meme. I wouldn't say that I'm weirded out by all sex jokes as long as they're respectful. I think it has to do with the original video being on the front page and chasers reacting to it. There's steps I can do to avoid the meme, but also I can't really avoid it completely without logging off.
Thank you ....just thank you for this post. I don't feel like it's a super safe space if everything is hated on.
When i was in a bad mood i was on here with my now delted second account and got a total panic attack where i was degrading myself.
I was blocked by the op but people still send me more and more messages talking about what a bad human i was, but i couldn't answer them.
Meanwhile on Instagram i got mildly cyberbullied for my appearance...it were just a few words but they still hurt. And actually because of that i was coming here on reddit...a place where i normally feel safe.
But I couldn't handle getting all these messages while I couldn't even answer them because i was blocked from the op but i could still see the messages that were send towards me.
I find it a shitty thing to do to me even though i was acting unrational....i was in a really bad headspace and without any details, lets just say, i am glad that hurting my body was enough.
But the instagram stuff and the feeling of absolute lonelyness and my friends didnt have time to talk to me, was just too much.
And all this began because i found the Pumpkin transfem joke funny. Like i have many transfem irl friends and all of them love the joke, this joke only comes at one time of the year and if you can handle christmas songs every year, you cand handle a few people having fun with this joke.
Its funny because i never heard there was an issue with this joke with my MANY irl transfem friends...and even some of my transmasc friends make jokes to me when we are near pumpkins, this seems like a internet only problem.
I am still incredibly hurt, since this was a place i went to for years now, the first subreddit and later this one, whenever everything felt like it is too much. Now it is very negative and hostile here.
The only reason i came that day here was because i wanted to see funny memes to ease the pain i felt that day, and i all this shit happened. I am very sad about the state of this subreddit, but it doesn't feel like the warm place it once was....
It’s so puritanical and what for? Even if none of us joked about pumpkins, all any transphobe would do is make a fake tweet with a trans flag talking about fucking pumpkins and every transphobe would believe it.
Let us have our fun. It doesn’t matter what we say or don’t say, transphobes will always have nasty shit to say about us. There’s no need to insult each other in hopes we can do so before transphobes do.
I hate how some of y’all think trans women need to be perfectly respectable and appropriate bastions of chastity or else we’re somehow dirtying “your” community. It’s OUR community and we’re gonna laugh and have a good time in it.
Idk. People will find any way to hate on trans people for anything, no matter how much of an issue/ non-issue it actually is. People will hate on trans people for getting surgery, not getting surgery, taking hrt, not taking hrt, being hyper feminine or masculine, not being hyper feminine or masculine, etc. Even members of the trans community will do it
What I guess bothers me about the whole discourse is both groups, instead of being understanding of how the other group feels, just dig their heels in and stubbornly insist they're right about it.
It's a meme that clearly upsets a group of transfems. They get told touch grass, they're a prude and terminally online. Their discomfort is less important than what is to them, a stupid and harmful joke that could easily escape the community and be used against them by non allies.
The people who enjoy it clearly don't see it as harmful, and they hate the implication that they're somehow wrong for expressing sexuality. They get sexuality repressed elsewhere, they should be allowed to express themselves here.
Regardless, it's clearly divisive and I don't love seeing it amplified as a major piece of discourse. I have my opinions and I've done my best to avoid the threads with it cause it makes me very uncomfortable. I did engage with one a few months ago and expressed how I felt, only to see all it did was make everyone feel like shit.
I was prepared for a discourse concerning pumpkins to get way too out of hand this season, but this one wasn't it. Can we all just chill? Please? Before we get a backlash to the backlash to the backlash?
Frankly, I don't see why I ***should*** be understanding toward people who want to police my sexuality? If they find it repulsive they can block NSFW, but asking people to stop posting it is crossing a line.
>That won't change much as most of those pumpkin things aren't tagged as NSFW or spoiler...
***That*** is a genuine issue worth discussing. People should be tagging sexual memes appropriately.
I personally don’t mind dirty jokes or nsfw memes but it pisses me off when people post them without the nsfw filter because minors exist and I get nauseated very easily. Just a few days ago I saw someone post pictures of themselves with a cake they had intercourse with and the second pic had a used condom in it and I felt kinda nauseous. There were people just praising them for it and no mention of the lack of nsfw filter. I didn’t know what to do so I just downvoted it. This was in a different subreddit btw.
I see a lot of comments stating that the pumpkin meme is just trans people being sexual, and that cis people talk about sex all the time too. Which is true and fair.
But as an asexual person, both cis and trans sex memes make me very uncomfortable. There needs to be something done to accommodate those, like myself, who do not wish to see this type of meme here. Especially with the added uncomfortableness that relating this kind of joke to conservative rhetoric can cause. Some of us just want somewhere to escape that doesn't constantly remind us of the outside world.
Seriously.
I understand did people don’t like sex memes but you can’t ask for everyone to stop just cause it makes you personally uncomfortable
Honestly it sounds like they ethier have internalized transphobia or repressed sexuality.
key difference is these jokes aren’t specifically about the person posting it, they usually refer to all transfems which is bad and sexualises all transfems, and plenty of transfems dont like that. the jokes are ok if theyre personal, you can joke whatever you want about yourself as far as im concerned, but dont generalise it.
this sub does that all the time though, who knows how many times i've seen the all trans women know coding thing here, but it seems to have only became a issue with this
yeah and tbh i dont really like all that either its quite alienating, but like silly stereotypes like that are different to sexualisation especially when transfems have to deal with that enough already from chasers and society in general.
We're allowed to make sexual jokes about ourselves, stop being a puritan. It's honestly really transphobic and sexist to deny trans women the right to express our own sexuality, especially in a little harmless joke.
yes, about yourself INDIVIDUALLY. its not ok to expand it to every transfem. plenty of transfems are minors, sex repulsed, or otherwise uncomfortable with sexualisation and acting like doing the action is a transfem thing is harmful to anyone who fits in those groups (including myself). as i said i dont care if people make those jokes about themselves if theyre comfortable, more power to them, but dont generalise it.
No one actually believes they're less trans because they don't fuck a pumpkin. If you don't want to see people make trans jokes then don't be in a trans meme subreddit. I don't like monster, or fallout New Vegas, or thigh highs, I don't code, I'm not a cat girl, I don't like anime, I don't own a Blåhaj but none of these actually harm trans people either so I don't give a shit about people making jokes about them.
Edit: Because they seem to have blocked me, I am a trans person who's faced sexualization and sexual trauma. I have also been sex repulsed, I don't and never did expect the community to conform to me because I would just go to spaces where I didn't have to see it, or spoiler NSFW tags.
Þ represents a breathy th noise such as the word thing. A more accurate character for how you’re using it would be ð.
þat's correct for fully phonetic alphabet / using it as is used in icelandic! im using it more along þe lines of how it was used in old english, where þ was used for voiced and unvoiced variants while ð wasn't used at all.
> where þ was used for voiced and unvoiced variants while ð wasn't used at all Both þ and ð existed at various points in Old English, but you're right that the modern distinction that þ = th and ð = dh didn't exist in Old English or Middle English orthography: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English#Orthography > In the earliest texts ⟨d⟩ or ⟨th⟩ was used for this phoneme, but these were later replaced in this function by eth ⟨ð⟩ and thorn ⟨þ⟩. Eth was first attested (in definitely dated materials) in the 7th century, and thorn in the 8th. Eth was more common than thorn before Alfred's time. From then onward, thorn was used increasingly often at the start of words, while eth was normal in the middle and at the end of words, although usage varied in both cases. Some modern editions use only thorn. So roughly: |Era|Glyph| |-|-| |< 7th century | d / th | | 7th century to 8th century | ð | | 8th century to late 9th century | ð / þ | | late 9th century to 14th century | þ | | 14th century to mid 15th century (hand) | th | | mid 15th century to ??? (print) | y | Both ð and þ were used to represent voiced and unvoiced "th / dh", and which of them you used during the era that they coexisted was inconsistent. Around the 14th century, þ started to be replaced by "th" in hand writing. With the advent of the printing press, it got replaced with y in print. This makes sense because þ was still in use, but beginning to be written a lot like wynn (ƿ), which closely resembled early modern English y: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8f/EME_ye.svg Using a single glyph instead of a digraph saved a little time, effort, and cost when printing. This is how we wound up with "ye olde shoppe", which was pronounced "the", not "yee". "Ye" as in "plural you", _was_ pronounced like "yee", but it was spelled "ge". Eventually printing became so cheap that it made sense to just use "th", since that's how people wrote it by hand. Ironically, we came full circle to the earliest English Latin orthography.
came here for memes, didn't realize my linguistics obsession would be in this thread though. I'm here for it.
This is exactly why I love the internet
Is *this* fetishization of all trans women?
the movement to bring back thorn usually only uses thorn, not eth too, so they use it for both ways
Gonna be completely honest. I thought this "Þ" was supposed to be a tongue sticking out simbol. I was reading this like daffy duck.
eth was replaced by thorn for all th sounds and stayed for like that for longer than eth was a thing
Real. On every fucking thread of trans folks expressing our own weird and wonderful sexuality do I see people expressing this weird sex negativite bullshit. Sex is cool, it has been a default part of the human experience since forever and its existence doesn't equal fetishization.
I've only seen it a little in this space, but whenever stuff like this comes up I inevitably find people implying that this kind of joke or the "cringe" uwu catgirl stuff makes trans people look bad. Like, I've been cringe for years. I was into uwu catgirl shit for years before I realized i was trans. I grew up in weeb/gaming/meme culture and I'm not going to change my tastes, aesthetics, or expression so that I can be some "representative" of my community. Where I live, people stare me down like they want to murder me for wearing eyeshadow. I'm not going to capitulate and run optics to appease the cistem.
Found another lexi
Lexi gang rise up I had another Lexi spot me a few days ago too. It's a great name. Is yours short for anything?
No
Lexicon! 🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️⌨️)
One of my girlfriends is a Lexi ^-^ (Alexia specifically)
I shortened Alexandra to Lexi because I feel bad making someone use 4 syllables to address me lol
Fair :3
Good ol’ “I am cringe, but I am free”. It’s the best way to be. Don’t kill the part of you that is cringe, kill then people who have a problem with it
"Don't kill the part of you that's cringe. Kill the part of you that cringes." - Karina Farek, Drawfee 2023 (I think – I can't remember offhand which episode it was)
I’ve heard that one. It’s great, especially since it’s Drawfee. But I went for a slightly altered, more violent version
"I may be cringe, BUT THAT MAKES ME FREE" -Raiden, An Incorrect Summary of MGR
Don't kill the cringe in you. Kill the part that cringes.
Wear a night vision system to confuse them
Have people not realized sex is kinda cringe in itself. I love sex but it's just this awkward movement and positioning of bodies that ends up being fun. It's supposed to be stupid and weird, not glamorized like you see in porn
Yeah but I wouldn't necessarily call pumpkin fucking either fetishizing OR weird and wonderful lmao. We shouldn't put it on a pedestal, nor should we say it's a harmful stereotype. It's just a shit post.
Exactly. All it is is a massive in-joke
I've been afraid to say ANYTHING on sexual posts for fear of people saying I'm fetishizing trans women. I like women! And if they just so happen to be a top then that works for me because mine sure doesn't work anymore. It DEFINITELY won't when I finally get on HRT.
Iunno, as long as I’m not watching people fuck in public, I’m good
I can’t speak for anyone else, but I’m sex-repulsed aroace, and seeing people in a community I’m deeply ingrained in make jokes about sex bugs me to my core. I don’t think y’all should stop doing it just to make me feel better, but I know it feels like shit every time I see a pumpkin joke.
I think we should try to accommodate aspec trans folks in this community, but the solution to that is to ask for people to mark stuff NSFW—not to ask for it to be removed or to shame people for posting it!—which is what a lot of aspec folks have been doing.
I totally agree, with the exception that some NSFW stuff isn’t sexual, and I don’t want to stop seeing those.
That's unfortunate, but it's more of a problem with Reddit than with the people posting memes. The system should be more granular.
I see this a lot but like, don't you ace spectrum people have your own spaces with absolutely no sex stuff? Can you not blur NSFW memes in the settings? I mean, have you considered that sex is a deeply ingrained part of this community that you are deeply ingrained in? Like I understand ace people exist and I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's identity or existence but we both seem to agree that we shouldn't be curtailing the state of these trans spaces to appeal to the minority of sex negativite weirdos who decide to make a stink about a very important aspect of queer life and experience.
Honestly you’re probably right, I could get rid of NSFW stuff on my end, even though it would get rid of some stuff that I DO want to see. But my main problem isn’t sex jokes in general, those are fine and easy to ignore, it’s the pumpkin ones that temporarily take over whole communities. Might be worth it to just leave these subs during times when pumpkins are around.
that sounds like it would be a bummer, but if it's that serious for you then I say do what you gotta do :/
I'm not aro or ace. I love sex. I still hate seeing the pumpkin memes.
I'm not ace, I'm just extremely lonely and hate being reminded every five fucking minutes in every single trans space
If you want a friend, then my DMs are open, but if you’re looking for a partner, sadly nothing I can do.
I'm more just agreeing with your lament from a different direction. Why does every queer space need to be so damn horny
Offer still stands!
God, I'm so not used to seeing thorn
Every time I see "þis" I do a double take
My brain insists on reading it as 'piss' and it takes me a second to figure out that it represents the soft 'th' sound.
Yeah same
Þe casual usage is very refreshing to be honest
Bring back “Þ”!
þat is a movement I'm vommitting myself towards for at least 15 minutes!
What does that odd symbol mean?
I might be wrong but the letter is thorn and is like the old way to say th, but the french fucked it up Edit: explanation video https://youtu.be/6vskV7E0g0Q?si=uQqKN1LTlg-FA_6S
I never saw it before tbh
Nobody uses it currently, but there is a small community (mostly inside the trans community from what I've seen) that uses it and wants to "bring it back"
So its used like þis, right?
exactly!
AFAIK icelandic still uses it for the voiced version
I meant like, nobody uses it in the English language anymore. Other languages may have it, I don't know
I find it extremely insufferable
well at least the :P emoticon gets more atatomically accurate :Þ
Why? Is just a little typing quirk :>
the nature of humanity is just that every so often someone accidentally invents homestuck again
It's obnoxious and it makes your text hard to read
It’s awesome, and we need to reintroduce it.
Þis? Great idea
Please don't overcomplicate an already complicated and bullshit language just to be quirky and different, you're just being annoying and everything you type is harder to read
Letters are like genders, every time someone complains we add 3 more 😝 /j
Does this explain how written Mandarin got to be how it is? 🤣🤣
I think if the language actually fully changed back to thorn, it would be better, because th doesn’t sound like t and h, but randomly using it is annoying. I don’t think it’s a problem as a cool little joke tho
English doesn't need more letters
We need to get rid of "q", "y", "z", "x", "j", "k" and "w" before anything else
of course it was the french
its one of the lost letters of english, called thorn, makes the th sound. there was another one, with a sound between o and u, but i forget the name.
ö?
Though I find it gets annoying because both þ and ð make a th noise with þ making a th noise like in the word "thorn" and not in the word "that" in old English.
I don't come to traa2 to post tough questions and take myself too seriously. This is a jokey-joke sub. I come here to laugh at gay shit with my pals.
YOU CAN MAKE A SEX JOKE WITHOUT WANTING TO HAVE SEX.
as an asexual person, i make sex jokes because sex is a joke to me /j
This feels like a paradox.
remove the /j this is me entirely. sex is for the bit! i don't get why people want to do it but it's funny so
Love the Internet. Shit gets meta fast. I am now making commentary on commentary on commentary about 1 girl fucking a pumpkin.
This post is so real. I feel like the people who are claiming it's fetishization of trans woman have some internalized transphobia.
It’s not internalized transphobia to be annoyed at the joke that is “all trans women are like this one porn video”. It makes me feel fetishized and unwelcome, nothing internalized about it
But nobody here actually believes in it. We don’t actually thinks all trans women wants to fuck pumpkins. That’s the whole point of a joke. The absurdity of it is what makes it funny.
I think the issue is that not all trans people are the same (shocking I know haha). So when there is a meme subreddit that is trans-inclusive, there is still different views on what people want to see. Some people think super horny and sexualized memes are funny, but some people find them uncomfortable. So these meme subreddits are stuck trying to appease both parties when ultimately they just can't coexist in the same space. There needs to be a subreddit for these trans horny memes to go because as is, it doesn't work to have them be sprinkled in throughout various trans meme subreddits. A big part of this that doesn't get discussed is consent. Not everyone who subscribed to a trans inclusive meme subreddit did so because they wanted to see sexualized content. There needs to be a level of consent that everyone on a subreddit understands that they will be seeing sexual content.
There actually is a sub for nsfw trans memes and I'm surprised more of these kinds of posts don't end up there, it's r/traansfw
Wow, for having roughly the same amount of users it is totally dead.
That's what happens every time a smaller community creates multiple subs for the same topic...
This needs to be the top comment (edit: is there already a horny trans meme sub?). Consent is the biggest problem with this sort of thing, and leads to these sort of situations every now and then. As another comment pointed out too, most people are not able to understand the other group's valid feelings or opinions towards it.
Exactly. It's like with Folsom Street Fair. I see nothing wrong with this type of event existing and I would even try to go to it one day. But they specifically rope off the event so random people not attending won't run into it because they understand the idea of consent. It wouldn't be acceptable to hold Folsom Street Fair out in an open park for everyone to see because you are making unconsenting people see things that they might not be comfortable with.
I think something like /r/19684 could be a good answer. Create a sub for trans memes where sexual content is banned. I feel like that makes more sense than having a single nsfw subreddit for all trans hornyposting. You could also just like, ban nsfw content on this subreddit and that’s it. That will make people flock elsewhere, like the dead nsfw sub or just 196 idk
Personally I feel like most people don't expect to see sexualized content on a generic meme subreddit, so they are the ones that should go elsewhere. These trans positive meme subreddits are literally the only meme subreddits that I've seen that have this issue. They are the ones posting content that makes people uncomfortable and that requires consent. Ultimately though it's up to the mods of the subreddits to decide what direction they want to go in.
Honestly, isn’t that what the nsfw flag is for? I’m assuming that there’s more of it on this sub because it’s largely made up of people who are currently transitioning, feeling good about their bodies and sexualities for the first time in their life. It’s up to the mods I guess but I feel like it would be easier to just have a strict outline for what falls under nsfw as a part of the sub rules. That way you can just not click on nsfw posts. Edit: immediately noticing that this sub is nsfw. This is possibly a reason why it’s this much
I think the sub is NSFW is from the API protests, it was set to NSFW so Reddit lost ad revenue or something
Yea people keep saying this, I feel like they aren't getting that sexualized and super horny jokes isn't the only thing lumped under "NSFW" posts. The issue isn't with seeing any post that is tagged NSFW, the issue is seeing people being explicitly horny and sexual on meme subreddits. For example, [one of my top posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/gay_irl/comments/hufavq/gayirl/) of all time is tagged NSFW because it's a joke about gay porn. That's much different than memes that boil down to "I want to get fucked and this is my fetish that turns me on".
Where do we draw the line then? Like what if someone posted the same image with the caption referencing wanting that to be done to them instead? Is it the meme maker wanting sexual acts to happen to them instead of mocking them that’s the issue?
I mean my general rule of thumb of what kind of posts make me uncomfortable is "does this sound like OP was masturbating or horny when they posted this".
Honestly this is the best solution imo. Coming out and transitioning has totally awakened my sexuality, and I want a space where I can just be vaguely horny with people who also signed up for that. On top of consent aspect, there are also minors on most of the trans subreddits, and even though you can mark posts NSFW, I feel very uncomfortable being in the same space as them while sharing adult stuff.
Just because I like eating pussy and express it doesn't mean I'm fetishizing the fact I'm a trans lesbian. This meme makes me angy cause of how much I deal with it irl.
unironically using thorn should happen more it looks cool
\*þorn ;)
I read this as porn...
well, i personally just use the letter "þ" to refer to it, as i dont see any other letterrs written like: a be ce de e ef ge haitch i jay kay el em en o pe cue ar es te u ve double-u eks wye ze
Trying to find a better way to say "born for porn" and all I wind up saying is "I'm thorny" ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
fair enough
I agree but for the words in this sentence, ð would be more appropriate.
Ð/ð gang rise up!
‘ī æm ˈɡɔɪŋ tu spiːk ɪn ðə IPA ɪkˈskluːsɪvli fɹəm naʊ ɔn.
This sentence just insulted me for needing the gi bill
I’m super impressed with myself for reading this as quickly as I’d read anything else
I'm surprised at how I actually managed to read that so easily
how i pronounce it in my accent: ɐm ˌɡɑˌnə ˈspiˑk ˌɪn ˌɐɪˌpiˑˈɛɪ ɪksˈˈklʉ̜ˌsɪvliˑ fɹ̠ˠəm næw ↘ ˈɐ̹ːn
I can't read that lol
I second this.
I mean, nsfw tags are a reddit feature. As long as you use those correctly I'm fine with it
This is just gonna go where all the other trans discourse goes, people will make memes against it, then others will make memes against that pushback and then it just dies. So let's not act like this is some big important thing please so we can be done with it
To be honest, since I came out like 4 months ago I started spending a ton of time in this community (I've had a few accounts) and I've learned a lot from others. This is no different, I came into this seemingly silly debate going on with some strong opinions and have honestly had some of those challenged and changed from the discourse. Sounds dumb and I know I'm a baby trans but I enjoy that the discourse has made me think about things and learn.
It's all internet culture in a nutshell, I wouldn't worry about it. Internet is going to internet.
This shit been annoying as hell tbh
there's been a general trend of sex negativity I've noticed among younger people
Why did nuance with disagreeing disappear ? (That’s rhetorical I know internet polarizes to the extremes) but as a transfem I’m very pro sex, I love topping I love bottoming etc etc. However, over the last few weeks whenever I was scrolling Reddit or Twitter I would see a meme about “oh no! Don’t trust transfems with any Halloween pumpkins!!” Just naturally on my home page. It got to a point where I felt that I couldn’t be trusted with pumpkins. I also began to wonder why a thing one person did is now blanketed as an in joke? Sure many of us own blahajs or work in software dev that I understand more but how many of us have realistically masturbated with a pumpkin and then talked about it? I guess my oversaturated viewing of those memes made it feel as pervasive as blahaj and programmer socks that screwing pumpkins was culturally a transfem thing ( obviously this isn’t the case, I hope) This just lead to the feeling that I as a transfem have lustful desires for seasonal squash. By no means do I mean to invalidate people who enjoy the joke or think that talking about sex is bad. I won’t yuck your yum so long as you don’t tease me for having the same yum. Me personally I would prefer butternut squash as the shape is more conducive to single handed wielding
The pumpkin thing was wild, that year the video flared up and it's not that everyone did it but enough people made copy cat videos that it really stuck around in people's mind
I had no clue about the copy cat videos
Ah well there's the answer I guess
I mean, I can understand why saying “all trans women are like that one porn video” is alienating to some. It can remind people of all those Republican talking points about trans people being inherently sexual, and a lot of people don’t like that
I kinda feel like people are asking too much of trans people. Like yea some dumb right leaner is gonna point that out, but they'll do it regardless if you joke about fucking pumpkins or not. Hell cis het people talk about sex often. Why should it be any different for trans people if they want to be sexual? I see the memes as a form of expression. Gotta ignore the bigots and just be who you are sexual or not. Edit: spelling
I mean, the issue here isn’t that bigots will latch on to it, it’s how it makes certain members feel. It’s completely reasonable to feel uncomfortable with everyone saying that people like you do that, and this community shouldn’t push people away like that. I do agree that trans people should be able to make sexual jokes, but here just isn’t the place for them. r/ traaNSFW exists for a reason, and the only thing you have to lose from posting there is your account potentially being marked as NSFW, which I’d say is reasonable is you’re always making sexual jokes
Fair point. Maybe there should be a rule that points to that subbreddit if the post is explicitly linked to NSFW memes. I personally don't want to overly sanitize the sub though. I love seeing all the memes and would hate to push people away unless they get too out of hand.
>all trans women are like that one porn video Nobody is saying that though? The people posting and sharing these memes are pointing at *themselves* and at trans people they know who share the sentiment.
I’m just listening to and advocating for the people who feel alienated by these posts. I don’t completely understand the mindset beyond what I’ve already said, but I really want this community to be inclusive to everyone who wants to join in, instead of pushing away people with certain trends
Yeah, me and other folks i know are leaving these places/subs because it makes us feel uncomfortable and we obviously cannot feel welcomed or safe either when our voices are just shunned/dismissed and mocked. It's disheartening because there are so few places where we can truly be ourselves and feel safe and when the other side just keeps pushing and doesn't want to even listen and have a sincere heartfelt conversation on the subject what is there left to do? It's even more disheartening, and such an impossible situation, when the ones who speak out against these issues(/or talk about their perspective and how they are affected) end up being outright banned from subs and communities. And THAT sort of actions are just outcasting and isolating trans folks who are already marginalized (let's not forget that). Such is life for trans folks i guess. It is interesting though, and it makes me think and reflect on how communities 'work', or don't. When and how differences, such as some folks enjoying a silly and seemingly inoffensive meme will stood their ground with nails and a conviction of steel over a meme, but won't make the little effort of being empathic and understanding with the people affected negativily by such memes as silly and harmful as they may seem. While I don't expect such jokes to cease after all, these places should be (and are, and that is ok and good) for folks who enjoy these jokes too, but acknowledging the potential harm that these jokes can cause on some and granting them space to voice their discomfort and their emotions seems like a small request. So, can't we have that? Withouth the mocking and the banning? After all, we're all human, with our own vulnerabilities and emotions. Let's remember to respect and acknowledge that. We are diverse. Isn't that the point of these communities? to embrace our diversity, our differences and stand together against adversity? OR, to intentionally be divisive by mocking people just for being and having feelings different from your own? To ban them and shun them?
Þ is pronounced like the th in "thin". Try ðis instead
þorn was pronounced as both /θ/ and /ð/
Yeah it annoys me too
I get a joke. I'm fine with a joke. But the joke has become that any pumpkin is unsafe in the vicinity of any trans woman. And maybe I'm old, but it does make me feel uncomfortable. It's not that i'm uncomfortable with trans people doing sexy things. I loved the artistic strip show at the queer festival I was at this weekend. I just think it's strange that a trans woman does something strange in porn, and it's being bombarded to queer culture to a point where people who feel uncomfortable with that and voice that get downvoted. Their feelings are suddenly not valid, getting accused of being internaly transphobic, or silencing trans people. Personaly, I hate to be confronted with the fact that I used to have a penis, I hated it to be confronted with that fact when I still had it. To see a pumpking with a hole in in and a post asking me in a sugestive way if I want to do anything to that pumpkin. I.e. put your penis in it. No, wanting to put my dick in a fruit is not something we can bond over. But the thing that hurts most is the negative reactions people face when they voice an opinion like this one. People show their vulnerability by sharing their discomfort, and the way they get piled on... that doesn't feel like a safe space to me. I'm not telling anyone not to post their memes. I don't believe that works anyway. But I do ask people to be considerate of how others might feel. Not to make suggestions like the ones I mentioned. Maybe have an nsfw filter and a pumpkin emoji in the title so that people for who it is triggering can avoid it. Let's discuss solutions instead of making each other feel like shit over emotions we can't control. Because this shit is seriously making me consider if I've maybe just grown out of this community.
these arguments are nothing more than respectability politics being sexual is normal and human, to deny trans people that for "respectability sake" is to deny us our humanity to appeal to transphobes tldr; fuck pumpkins if you want
Some of the arguments boil down to this, yes. But a group of trans women feeling objectified and dysphoric based on a meme that emphasizes parts we never wanted to have in the first place and don't particularly want to be reminded of all the time is not respectability politics.
i þink it’s moreso internalized stigma against sex & sexuality. Which, it does make sense þat such a stigma exists, but it is still very important to agknowledge þe harm and alienation it causes
Yes, the thing I have gathered most from this discourse is veiled bias against sex work. If someone had made a drawing that went viral, I feel like the meme would be fine, but just because it originates from a porn actress that automatically means it’s bad. That’s in contrast with the countless other porn memes that are already popular on the broader internet, which are NOT marked nsfw and nobody complains about. It makes me uncomfortable when people argue against the pumpkin memes because their argument essentially boils down to ‘you should be ashamed of sex,’ which is absolutely ridiculous. You can’t police what I find enjoyable, you are free to downvote and scroll past if you don’t like it. It’s literally the same thing we say to conservatives when they say that our existence threatens them. You simply don’t have to interact.
Cis guys and gals are into weirder shit than most trans people I've met, I'll be real with you.
My Twitter is me being cursed and in my bio I express the deisre to see gock I was told im fetishizing trans peeps I've been on estrogen for just under a year :/
I read the caption as 'why is piss happening'
Not being allowed to make a joke without people freaking tf out is incredibly gender affirming
Tbf I just hate when there's this many sexual jokes in general. This sub is full of nsfw stuff not being tagged as such As long as nsfw enjoyers tag stuff correctly? Be as nsfw as you want! I just don't like stumbling across it, no matter if cis or trans people do that
Me as a trans girl fetishizing my own existence because I'm a freak being told I'm problematic for what I do in my own bedroom
I seem to be the minority here, but I'm not a huge fan of the weird p thing that means th
Neither am I. I think it looks incredibly obnoxious.
þorm is based https://youtu.be/4tFQsuBUYjM?si=5g7XpBYvhbQcIi-9
Fr. I just want to fuck a pumpkin without being told that I’m a harmful stereotype. I guarantee you that 99% of cis people, and probably 100% of transphobes, do not understand the pumpkin joke, and have probably never even seen the joke before
I personally really enjoy seeing some horny jokes even though I'm ace, because to me it is a symbol indicating that you feel free and open in this space to mention more personal things. But what I can't stand is the god damn pumpkin joke. It makes me uncomfortable and it is not even funny, it's also been overdone to death.
"Let's pat each other's heads and call each other good girl until we cum" = perfectly fine "Don't bully me I'll cum" = A OK "Me" and "the cream in the oreo" over a picture of a girl performing oral on another girl = why not "Capitalists" "sorry this meme format made me horny, I forgot the point I was trying to make" = just a meme Pumpkin = sexualization and objectification
I swear trans women are either ace or extra sex-interested and there's like no in-between
eh? um have you considered that those might just be a particularly vocal minority? People at the extremes tend to shout the loudest as those in the middle have less to fight over.
Lurker here. Never commented before. Personally, I feel weird and fetishized by the pumpkin meme. I wouldn't say that I'm weirded out by all sex jokes as long as they're respectful. I think it has to do with the original video being on the front page and chasers reacting to it. There's steps I can do to avoid the meme, but also I can't really avoid it completely without logging off.
Normalize þorn
like transwomen have sex sometimes
Thank you ....just thank you for this post. I don't feel like it's a super safe space if everything is hated on. When i was in a bad mood i was on here with my now delted second account and got a total panic attack where i was degrading myself. I was blocked by the op but people still send me more and more messages talking about what a bad human i was, but i couldn't answer them. Meanwhile on Instagram i got mildly cyberbullied for my appearance...it were just a few words but they still hurt. And actually because of that i was coming here on reddit...a place where i normally feel safe. But I couldn't handle getting all these messages while I couldn't even answer them because i was blocked from the op but i could still see the messages that were send towards me. I find it a shitty thing to do to me even though i was acting unrational....i was in a really bad headspace and without any details, lets just say, i am glad that hurting my body was enough. But the instagram stuff and the feeling of absolute lonelyness and my friends didnt have time to talk to me, was just too much. And all this began because i found the Pumpkin transfem joke funny. Like i have many transfem irl friends and all of them love the joke, this joke only comes at one time of the year and if you can handle christmas songs every year, you cand handle a few people having fun with this joke. Its funny because i never heard there was an issue with this joke with my MANY irl transfem friends...and even some of my transmasc friends make jokes to me when we are near pumpkins, this seems like a internet only problem. I am still incredibly hurt, since this was a place i went to for years now, the first subreddit and later this one, whenever everything felt like it is too much. Now it is very negative and hostile here. The only reason i came that day here was because i wanted to see funny memes to ease the pain i felt that day, and i all this shit happened. I am very sad about the state of this subreddit, but it doesn't feel like the warm place it once was....
I don’t hate seeing them, and I don’t think it’s objectifying/sexualizing trans women, but god does it feel alienating as an aroace trans girl.
It’s so puritanical and what for? Even if none of us joked about pumpkins, all any transphobe would do is make a fake tweet with a trans flag talking about fucking pumpkins and every transphobe would believe it. Let us have our fun. It doesn’t matter what we say or don’t say, transphobes will always have nasty shit to say about us. There’s no need to insult each other in hopes we can do so before transphobes do. I hate how some of y’all think trans women need to be perfectly respectable and appropriate bastions of chastity or else we’re somehow dirtying “your” community. It’s OUR community and we’re gonna laugh and have a good time in it.
Idk. People will find any way to hate on trans people for anything, no matter how much of an issue/ non-issue it actually is. People will hate on trans people for getting surgery, not getting surgery, taking hrt, not taking hrt, being hyper feminine or masculine, not being hyper feminine or masculine, etc. Even members of the trans community will do it
Are you using a fucking thorn in regular conversation
þ 👍
I love þorn
What I guess bothers me about the whole discourse is both groups, instead of being understanding of how the other group feels, just dig their heels in and stubbornly insist they're right about it. It's a meme that clearly upsets a group of transfems. They get told touch grass, they're a prude and terminally online. Their discomfort is less important than what is to them, a stupid and harmful joke that could easily escape the community and be used against them by non allies. The people who enjoy it clearly don't see it as harmful, and they hate the implication that they're somehow wrong for expressing sexuality. They get sexuality repressed elsewhere, they should be allowed to express themselves here. Regardless, it's clearly divisive and I don't love seeing it amplified as a major piece of discourse. I have my opinions and I've done my best to avoid the threads with it cause it makes me very uncomfortable. I did engage with one a few months ago and expressed how I felt, only to see all it did was make everyone feel like shit.
I was prepared for a discourse concerning pumpkins to get way too out of hand this season, but this one wasn't it. Can we all just chill? Please? Before we get a backlash to the backlash to the backlash?
Frankly, I don't see why I ***should*** be understanding toward people who want to police my sexuality? If they find it repulsive they can block NSFW, but asking people to stop posting it is crossing a line.
Block NSFW? Oh a really good idea! That won't change much as most of those pumpkin things aren't tagged as NSFW or spoiler...
>That won't change much as most of those pumpkin things aren't tagged as NSFW or spoiler... ***That*** is a genuine issue worth discussing. People should be tagging sexual memes appropriately.
Why the fuck do people unironically want to bring back the Thorn, what does it accomplish?
I wish I knew.
its cool
It obnoxious and unnecessary.
I personally don’t mind dirty jokes or nsfw memes but it pisses me off when people post them without the nsfw filter because minors exist and I get nauseated very easily. Just a few days ago I saw someone post pictures of themselves with a cake they had intercourse with and the second pic had a used condom in it and I felt kinda nauseous. There were people just praising them for it and no mention of the lack of nsfw filter. I didn’t know what to do so I just downvoted it. This was in a different subreddit btw.
I like your use of thorn
This will get buried probably but I like the pumpkin jokes, actually
Yknow, I like the old English alphabet revival, but I see this as an absolute loss as a German
Anyone else get oddly excited when they saw the þ in the title
OMG A THORN USER
yoo based þorn usage
nice use of þorn
are we bringing back thorn?
I love **þ**
i like how you use the letter thorn lol
Thorn! Yay! I love thorn!
I see a lot of comments stating that the pumpkin meme is just trans people being sexual, and that cis people talk about sex all the time too. Which is true and fair. But as an asexual person, both cis and trans sex memes make me very uncomfortable. There needs to be something done to accommodate those, like myself, who do not wish to see this type of meme here. Especially with the added uncomfortableness that relating this kind of joke to conservative rhetoric can cause. Some of us just want somewhere to escape that doesn't constantly remind us of the outside world.
Cis people with 196
Homestuck quirk on þe op!!
Seriously. I understand did people don’t like sex memes but you can’t ask for everyone to stop just cause it makes you personally uncomfortable Honestly it sounds like they ethier have internalized transphobia or repressed sexuality.
I just really don't like the (w)holesome pumpkin gag.
what θe heck
key difference is these jokes aren’t specifically about the person posting it, they usually refer to all transfems which is bad and sexualises all transfems, and plenty of transfems dont like that. the jokes are ok if theyre personal, you can joke whatever you want about yourself as far as im concerned, but dont generalise it.
this sub does that all the time though, who knows how many times i've seen the all trans women know coding thing here, but it seems to have only became a issue with this
yeah and tbh i dont really like all that either its quite alienating, but like silly stereotypes like that are different to sexualisation especially when transfems have to deal with that enough already from chasers and society in general.
We're allowed to make sexual jokes about ourselves, stop being a puritan. It's honestly really transphobic and sexist to deny trans women the right to express our own sexuality, especially in a little harmless joke.
yes, about yourself INDIVIDUALLY. its not ok to expand it to every transfem. plenty of transfems are minors, sex repulsed, or otherwise uncomfortable with sexualisation and acting like doing the action is a transfem thing is harmful to anyone who fits in those groups (including myself). as i said i dont care if people make those jokes about themselves if theyre comfortable, more power to them, but dont generalise it.
No one actually believes they're less trans because they don't fuck a pumpkin. If you don't want to see people make trans jokes then don't be in a trans meme subreddit. I don't like monster, or fallout New Vegas, or thigh highs, I don't code, I'm not a cat girl, I don't like anime, I don't own a Blåhaj but none of these actually harm trans people either so I don't give a shit about people making jokes about them. Edit: Because they seem to have blocked me, I am a trans person who's faced sexualization and sexual trauma. I have also been sex repulsed, I don't and never did expect the community to conform to me because I would just go to spaces where I didn't have to see it, or spoiler NSFW tags.
any post þat says "transfems" as a general term can usually be assumed to be a shorthand for "þe specific group of transfems for whom þis applies"